It would be interesting to find out, even on here, what regulars didn't attend last night. I have a season ticket and on Saturday evening I was intending to go. I think most people look at the positives and negatives, my negatives were Temperatures dropping, Cheltenham, not getting home till gone midnight, chance the trains or negotiate the M2, then picking up a nasty cold probably convinced me to stay in the warm and pay a tenner for the stream. The positives ? i'll get back to you on that one. Personally I think we still play far too much football in this country and with international breaks causing Saturday postponements creating more winters evening games its actually getting worse. I would rather we extend the season till the end of May and play the postponed games from the end of March onwards, might not suit everyone but it would be easier on the players and easier on the supporters.
I went with my ST, but my son didn't as he's out of the country. Offered the spare to my other son, but he didn't want to know. Put a note on a WhatsApp group of Charlton friends and got a message back saying that they had two spares of their own already. Thought about offering the freebie to non-Charlton mates but decided against it; didn't want any of them taking the piss. By the size of the turnout, it seems like others might have thought the same. I counted the seats in my row, there were thirteen spare seats to my right and twenty to my left. I had had a shower, honest.
This is exactly what the EFL want by allowing streaming for midweek, more and more will give cold nights a miss and the crowds will continue to decline.
Charlton have made the issue even worse by enhancing their own coverage.
As a club we really should be looking at how we can get them local teenagers who were there last night back, but paying to get in and adding to those of us still going.
Puzzled that you think the EFL want this? Genuine question
They have allowed streaming to occur in the UK for midweek matches. Once you allow this it is obvious in the bottom 2 leagues the crowds will drop off and this will continue a lot more into the future.
I didn't go as couldn't justify my 120 mile round trip for such an uninspiring fixture. I wouldn't have gone if it wasn't streamed so the club got £10 more revenue from me. I would say this is the case for quite a few people.
This is exactly what the EFL want by allowing streaming for midweek, more and more will give cold nights a miss and the crowds will continue to decline.
Charlton have made the issue even worse by enhancing their own coverage.
As a club we really should be looking at how we can get them local teenagers who were there last night back, but paying to get in and adding to those of us still going.
Puzzled that you think the EFL want this? Genuine question
They have allowed streaming to occur in the UK for midweek matches. Once you allow this it is obvious in the bottom 2 leagues the crowds will drop off and this will continue a lot more into the future.
I didn't go as couldn't justify my 120 mile round trip for such an uninspiring fixture. I wouldn't have gone if it wasn't streamed so the club got £10 more revenue from me. I would say this is the case for quite a few people.
What fixtures in this league would you describe as inspiring? As somebody who attends every game home & away i find it strange why people bother to buy a season ticket if they can't be bothered to turn up to home games. If you found the fixture was so uninspiring, why bother to watch it at all, there was a few good champions league fixtures that evening on tv, why not watch one of those?
This is exactly what the EFL want by allowing streaming for midweek, more and more will give cold nights a miss and the crowds will continue to decline.
Charlton have made the issue even worse by enhancing their own coverage.
As a club we really should be looking at how we can get them local teenagers who were there last night back, but paying to get in and adding to those of us still going.
Puzzled that you think the EFL want this? Genuine question
They have allowed streaming to occur in the UK for midweek matches. Once you allow this it is obvious in the bottom 2 leagues the crowds will drop off and this will continue a lot more into the future.
I didn't go as couldn't justify my 120 mile round trip for such an uninspiring fixture. I wouldn't have gone if it wasn't streamed so the club got £10 more revenue from me. I would say this is the case for quite a few people.
What fixtures in this league would you describe as inspiring? As somebody who attends every game home & away i find it strange why people bother to buy a season ticket if they can't be bothered to turn up to home games. If you found the fixture was so uninspiring, why bother to watch it at all, there was a few good champions league fixtures that evening on tv, why not watch one of those?
I think there are plenty of reasons as to why people buy season tickets Clive. Speaking for myself, it's cheaper than a matchday ticket, I can sit where I want, generally with friends, I feel I am supporting the club by purchasing that season ticket and even if I can't make it, the club still have my entrance fee in the bank. I think in the case of season ticket holders watching on the stream, then the club probably gets extra money in the bag, as I have already paid for my ticket. I can't remember when the stream first started but for a tenner, I think it's great value, whether the club make decent money out of it I am not sure.
It would be interesting to find out, even on here, what regulars didn't attend last night. I have a season ticket and on Saturday evening I was intending to go. I think most people look at the positives and negatives, my negatives were Temperatures dropping, Cheltenham, not getting home till gone midnight, chance the trains or negotiate the M2, then picking up a nasty cold probably convinced me to stay in the warm and pay a tenner for the stream. The positives ? i'll get back to you on that one. Personally I think we still play far too much football in this country and with international breaks causing Saturday postponements creating more winters evening games its actually getting worse. I would rather we extend the season till the end of May and play the postponed games from the end of March onwards, might not suit everyone but it would be easier on the players and easier on the supporters.
I went with my ST, but my son didn't as he's out of the country. Offered the spare to my other son, but he didn't want to know. Put a note on a WhatsApp group of Charlton friends and got a message back saying that they had two spares of their own already. Thought about offering the freebie to non-Charlton mates but decided against it; didn't want any of them taking the piss. By the size of the turnout, it seems like others might have thought the same. I counted the seats in my row, there were thirteen spare seats to my right and twenty to my left. I had had a shower, honest.
This is exactly what the EFL want by allowing streaming for midweek, more and more will give cold nights a miss and the crowds will continue to decline.
Charlton have made the issue even worse by enhancing their own coverage.
As a club we really should be looking at how we can get them local teenagers who were there last night back, but paying to get in and adding to those of us still going.
Puzzled that you think the EFL want this? Genuine question
They have allowed streaming to occur in the UK for midweek matches. Once you allow this it is obvious in the bottom 2 leagues the crowds will drop off and this will continue a lot more into the future.
I didn't go as couldn't justify my 120 mile round trip for such an uninspiring fixture. I wouldn't have gone if it wasn't streamed so the club got £10 more revenue from me. I would say this is the case for quite a few people.
What fixtures in this league would you describe as inspiring? As somebody who attends every game home & away i find it strange why people bother to buy a season ticket if they can't be bothered to turn up to home games. If you found the fixture was so uninspiring, why bother to watch it at all, there was a few good champions league fixtures that evening on tv, why not watch one of those?
I think there are plenty of reasons as to why people buy season tickets Clive. Speaking for myself, it's cheaper than a matchday ticket, I can sit where I want, generally with friends, I feel I am supporting the club by purchasing that season ticket and even if I can't make it, the club still have my entrance fee in the bank. I think in the case of season ticket holders watching on the stream, then the club probably gets extra money in the bag, as I have already paid for my ticket. I can't remember when the stream first started but for a tenner, I think it's great value, whether the club make decent money out of it I am not sure.
In the case of my season ticket if i miss 2 games, i would be better off paying the matchday prices, in the West/Alan Curbishley stands you are not meant to sit where you want, because of the ridiculous zonal pricing system. Also in this & other threads i see people complaining about the lack of atmosphere, this will obviously be the case if people buy season tickets & can't be bothered to to turn up. As other people have mentioned it must be very hard to convince people who turn up for the first time to return to 'The Valley' when it is almost deserted & almost silent. Apparently the club loses money on Charlton TV. You haven't answered my question, what fixtures in this division are attractive/inspiring?
It would be interesting to find out, even on here, what regulars didn't attend last night. I have a season ticket and on Saturday evening I was intending to go. I think most people look at the positives and negatives, my negatives were Temperatures dropping, Cheltenham, not getting home till gone midnight, chance the trains or negotiate the M2, then picking up a nasty cold probably convinced me to stay in the warm and pay a tenner for the stream. The positives ? i'll get back to you on that one. Personally I think we still play far too much football in this country and with international breaks causing Saturday postponements creating more winters evening games its actually getting worse. I would rather we extend the season till the end of May and play the postponed games from the end of March onwards, might not suit everyone but it would be easier on the players and easier on the supporters.
I went with my ST, but my son didn't as he's out of the country. Offered the spare to my other son, but he didn't want to know. Put a note on a WhatsApp group of Charlton friends and got a message back saying that they had two spares of their own already. Thought about offering the freebie to non-Charlton mates but decided against it; didn't want any of them taking the piss. By the size of the turnout, it seems like others might have thought the same. I counted the seats in my row, there were thirteen spare seats to my right and twenty to my left. I had had a shower, honest.
I thought the tickets were non transferable ?
The turnstiles are electronic; I think the only checks beyond the basic ticket scan are if someone on a discounted ticket looks like they ought to pay the full adult price. I've no idea what the 'rules' are but amongst my family and friends we always offer our tickets if they are going spare and have never had an issue.
Edit - I think for me and my son, not being able to swap who goes might well be the difference between us buying season tickets or not, should the club decide that they wanted to go down the more restrictive route.
This is exactly what the EFL want by allowing streaming for midweek, more and more will give cold nights a miss and the crowds will continue to decline.
Charlton have made the issue even worse by enhancing their own coverage.
As a club we really should be looking at how we can get them local teenagers who were there last night back, but paying to get in and adding to those of us still going.
Puzzled that you think the EFL want this? Genuine question
They have allowed streaming to occur in the UK for midweek matches. Once you allow this it is obvious in the bottom 2 leagues the crowds will drop off and this will continue a lot more into the future.
I didn't go as couldn't justify my 120 mile round trip for such an uninspiring fixture. I wouldn't have gone if it wasn't streamed so the club got £10 more revenue from me. I would say this is the case for quite a few people.
My point is the EFL wants this and its exactly what they are getting, fewer people actually going to games
Sorry to whinge on about an old hobby horse of mine but I went on Tuesday (I'm a season ticket holder) and wouldn't think about not going to every home game other than through sickness or having an event arranged before the fixture list comes out.
However, I am still considered only to be a phase 8 "Loyalty points" fan when it comes to tickets on restricted sale.
Sorry to whinge on about an old hobby horse of mine but I went on Tuesday (I'm a season ticket holder) and wouldn't think about not going to every home game other than through sickness or having an event arranged before the fixture list comes out.
However, I am still considered only to be a phase 8 "Loyalty points" fan when it comes to tickets on restricted sale.
Sorry to whinge on about an old hobby horse of mine but I went on Tuesday (I'm a season ticket holder) and wouldn't think about not going to every home game other than through sickness or having an event arranged before the fixture list comes out.
However, I am still considered only to be a phase 8 "Loyalty points" fan when it comes to tickets on restricted sale.
Based on having a season ticket this season and last would give you 460 points which is phase 8. That means those who have the same plus been to cup games and away games will be higher up.
Sorry to whinge on about an old hobby horse of mine but I went on Tuesday (I'm a season ticket holder) and wouldn't think about not going to every home game other than through sickness or having an event arranged before the fixture list comes out.
However, I am still considered only to be a phase 8 "Loyalty points" fan when it comes to tickets on restricted sale.
If you start going to away games as well, you’ll move up the pecking order !
This is exactly what the EFL want by allowing streaming for midweek, more and more will give cold nights a miss and the crowds will continue to decline.
Charlton have made the issue even worse by enhancing their own coverage.
As a club we really should be looking at how we can get them local teenagers who were there last night back, but paying to get in and adding to those of us still going.
Puzzled that you think the EFL want this? Genuine question
They have allowed streaming to occur in the UK for midweek matches. Once you allow this it is obvious in the bottom 2 leagues the crowds will drop off and this will continue a lot more into the future.
I didn't go as couldn't justify my 120 mile round trip for such an uninspiring fixture. I wouldn't have gone if it wasn't streamed so the club got £10 more revenue from me. I would say this is the case for quite a few people.
I know it’s pedantic but your £10 includes VAT and the club is unlikely to get all of the balance. It will likely be split with the opposition and the provider. It’s probably more like £4/£5.
That payment can allow multiple people to watch the game and the club gets no ancillary revenue from programme, refreshments, etc, sales.
Don’t imagine either that Curbs etc do it for nothing. Nor should they.
This could only work as a business model if the club was racking up huge online sales to offset lost stadium revenue from match ticket and ancillary sales.
There’s very little chance of that in my opinion.
A family of four might easily generate £60 net revenue at the stadium. On a screen they generate under a tenth of that.
It’s by no means all that’s going on, but it’s a part of the problem. However this horse has bolted.
It would be interesting to find out, even on here, what regulars didn't attend last night. I have a season ticket and on Saturday evening I was intending to go. I think most people look at the positives and negatives, my negatives were Temperatures dropping, Cheltenham, not getting home till gone midnight, chance the trains or negotiate the M2, then picking up a nasty cold probably convinced me to stay in the warm and pay a tenner for the stream. The positives ? i'll get back to you on that one. Personally I think we still play far too much football in this country and with international breaks causing Saturday postponements creating more winters evening games its actually getting worse. I would rather we extend the season till the end of May and play the postponed games from the end of March onwards, might not suit everyone but it would be easier on the players and easier on the supporters.
I went with my ST, but my son didn't as he's out of the country. Offered the spare to my other son, but he didn't want to know. Put a note on a WhatsApp group of Charlton friends and got a message back saying that they had two spares of their own already. Thought about offering the freebie to non-Charlton mates but decided against it; didn't want any of them taking the piss. By the size of the turnout, it seems like others might have thought the same. I counted the seats in my row, there were thirteen spare seats to my right and twenty to my left. I had had a shower, honest.
I thought the tickets were non transferable ?
The turnstiles are electronic; I think the only checks beyond the basic ticket scan are if someone on a discounted ticket looks like they ought to pay the full adult price. I've no idea what the 'rules' are but amongst my family and friends we always offer our tickets if they are going spare and have never had an issue.
Edit - I think for me and my son, not being able to swap who goes might well be the difference between us buying season tickets or not, should the club decide that they wanted to go down the more restrictive route.
The club won’t pay for the stewards it would need to enforce its policy, so you’ll be fine.
Down to the die hards and a few overseas visitors To London. Though I guessed a crowd of 9000. Think 6000 to low a number. The fame last night is nit selling Charlton to any one but us fools.
One in three seats filled at 9,000 - more given the JS Stand was almost empty. I don’t think so.
This is exactly what the EFL want by allowing streaming for midweek, more and more will give cold nights a miss and the crowds will continue to decline.
Charlton have made the issue even worse by enhancing their own coverage.
As a club we really should be looking at how we can get them local teenagers who were there last night back, but paying to get in and adding to those of us still going.
Puzzled that you think the EFL want this? Genuine question
They have allowed streaming to occur in the UK for midweek matches. Once you allow this it is obvious in the bottom 2 leagues the crowds will drop off and this will continue a lot more into the future.
I didn't go as couldn't justify my 120 mile round trip for such an uninspiring fixture. I wouldn't have gone if it wasn't streamed so the club got £10 more revenue from me. I would say this is the case for quite a few people.
I know it’s pedantic but your £10 includes VAT and the club is unlikely to get all of the balance. It will likely be split with the opposition and the provider. It’s probably more like £4/£5.
That payment can allow multiple people to watch the game and the club gets no ancillary revenue from programme, refreshments, etc, sales.
Don’t imagine either that Curbs etc do it for nothing. Nor should they.
This could only work as a business model if the club was racking up huge online sales to offset lost stadium revenue from match ticket and ancillary sales.
There’s very little chance of that in my opinion.
A family of four might easily generate £60 net revenue at the stadium. On a screen they generate under a tenth of that.
It’s by no means all that’s going on, but it’s a part of the problem. However this horse has bolted.
But the poster said he wasn’t going to the game with it without a stream. None of that extra income was going to happen with or without the stream.
Curbs and co, cameras and all the other fixed costs would also still be there without the stream being available within the UK as CharltonTV has - thankfully- been available to international fans for years. On this occasion the club absolutely made more money than had it not been available in the UK.
This is exactly what the EFL want by allowing streaming for midweek, more and more will give cold nights a miss and the crowds will continue to decline.
Charlton have made the issue even worse by enhancing their own coverage.
As a club we really should be looking at how we can get them local teenagers who were there last night back, but paying to get in and adding to those of us still going.
Puzzled that you think the EFL want this? Genuine question
They have allowed streaming to occur in the UK for midweek matches. Once you allow this it is obvious in the bottom 2 leagues the crowds will drop off and this will continue a lot more into the future.
I didn't go as couldn't justify my 120 mile round trip for such an uninspiring fixture. I wouldn't have gone if it wasn't streamed so the club got £10 more revenue from me. I would say this is the case for quite a few people.
What fixtures in this league would you describe as inspiring? As somebody who attends every game home & away i find it strange why people bother to buy a season ticket if they can't be bothered to turn up to home games. If you found the fixture was so uninspiring, why bother to watch it at all, there was a few good champions league fixtures that evening on tv, why not watch one of those?
Why would I watch the Champions league when I support Charlton? I've clocked up over 2,000 games from Carlisle to Plymouth so don't expect lectures. You go to every game, which is great but I choose not to any more and living 2 hours away from the Valley, I now choose to miss out on some games. I expected this game to be uninspiring which not surprisingly it turned out to be. I was at Portsmouth and that was inspiring. Only around 1,000 go to every game, do you think that these are the only people that are proper supporters?
This is exactly what the EFL want by allowing streaming for midweek, more and more will give cold nights a miss and the crowds will continue to decline.
Charlton have made the issue even worse by enhancing their own coverage.
As a club we really should be looking at how we can get them local teenagers who were there last night back, but paying to get in and adding to those of us still going.
Puzzled that you think the EFL want this? Genuine question
They have allowed streaming to occur in the UK for midweek matches. Once you allow this it is obvious in the bottom 2 leagues the crowds will drop off and this will continue a lot more into the future.
I didn't go as couldn't justify my 120 mile round trip for such an uninspiring fixture. I wouldn't have gone if it wasn't streamed so the club got £10 more revenue from me. I would say this is the case for quite a few people.
What fixtures in this league would you describe as inspiring? As somebody who attends every game home & away i find it strange why people bother to buy a season ticket if they can't be bothered to turn up to home games. If you found the fixture was so uninspiring, why bother to watch it at all, there was a few good champions league fixtures that evening on tv, why not watch one of those?
Why would I watch the Champions league when I support Charlton? I've clocked up over 2,000 games from Carlisle to Plymouth so don't expect lectures. You go to every game, which is great but I choose not to any more and living 2 hours away from the Valley, I now choose to miss out on some games. I expected this game to be uninspiring which not surprisingly it turned out to be. I was at Portsmouth and that was inspiring. Only around 1,000 go to every game, do you think that these are the only people that are proper supporters?
For me personally there are very few games in this league that look like games i could call potentially inspiring/attractive but that does not me deter from attending. I was born & have always resided within 3/4 miles of 'The Valley' so i've no excuse not to attend every home game. As a person who is dependent on public transport i would never relocate to somewhere where it would deter me from attending a home game. The Charlton TV /streaming argument has been gone over many times on this forum, but if i was living miles away & a Premiership match or Champions League game was on the tv i would probably watch that in preference to watching a 3rd division game in a silent deserted stadium but if i happened to be located near a non-league club for instance i rather would rather go & watch them than being stuck indoors watching the tv. The people who attend home & away matches regularly i would describe as loyal supporters.
This is exactly what the EFL want by allowing streaming for midweek, more and more will give cold nights a miss and the crowds will continue to decline.
Charlton have made the issue even worse by enhancing their own coverage.
As a club we really should be looking at how we can get them local teenagers who were there last night back, but paying to get in and adding to those of us still going.
Puzzled that you think the EFL want this? Genuine question
They have allowed streaming to occur in the UK for midweek matches. Once you allow this it is obvious in the bottom 2 leagues the crowds will drop off and this will continue a lot more into the future.
I didn't go as couldn't justify my 120 mile round trip for such an uninspiring fixture. I wouldn't have gone if it wasn't streamed so the club got £10 more revenue from me. I would say this is the case for quite a few people.
What fixtures in this league would you describe as inspiring? As somebody who attends every game home & away i find it strange why people bother to buy a season ticket if they can't be bothered to turn up to home games. If you found the fixture was so uninspiring, why bother to watch it at all, there was a few good champions league fixtures that evening on tv, why not watch one of those?
Why would I watch the Champions league when I support Charlton? I've clocked up over 2,000 games from Carlisle to Plymouth so don't expect lectures. You go to every game, which is great but I choose not to any more and living 2 hours away from the Valley, I now choose to miss out on some games. I expected this game to be uninspiring which not surprisingly it turned out to be. I was at Portsmouth and that was inspiring. Only around 1,000 go to every game, do you think that these are the only people that are proper supporters?
For me personally there are very few games in this league that look like games i could call potentially inspiring/attractive but that does not me deter from attending. I was born & have always resided within 3/4 miles of 'The Valley' so i've no excuse not to attend every home game. As a person who is dependent on public transport i would never relocate to somewhere where it would deter me from attending a home game. The Charlton TV /streaming argument has been gone over many times on this forum, but if i was living miles away & a Premiership match or Champions League game was on the tv i would probably watch that in preference to watching a 3rd division game in a silent deserted stadium but if i happened to be located near a non-league club for instance i rather would rather go & watch them than being stuck indoors watching the tv. The people who attend home & away matches regularly i would describe as loyal supporters.
Thing is Clive most people don't want to dedicate their life to Charlton.
This is exactly what the EFL want by allowing streaming for midweek, more and more will give cold nights a miss and the crowds will continue to decline.
Charlton have made the issue even worse by enhancing their own coverage.
As a club we really should be looking at how we can get them local teenagers who were there last night back, but paying to get in and adding to those of us still going.
Puzzled that you think the EFL want this? Genuine question
They have allowed streaming to occur in the UK for midweek matches. Once you allow this it is obvious in the bottom 2 leagues the crowds will drop off and this will continue a lot more into the future.
I didn't go as couldn't justify my 120 mile round trip for such an uninspiring fixture. I wouldn't have gone if it wasn't streamed so the club got £10 more revenue from me. I would say this is the case for quite a few people.
What fixtures in this league would you describe as inspiring? As somebody who attends every game home & away i find it strange why people bother to buy a season ticket if they can't be bothered to turn up to home games. If you found the fixture was so uninspiring, why bother to watch it at all, there was a few good champions league fixtures that evening on tv, why not watch one of those?
Why would I watch the Champions league when I support Charlton? I've clocked up over 2,000 games from Carlisle to Plymouth so don't expect lectures. You go to every game, which is great but I choose not to any more and living 2 hours away from the Valley, I now choose to miss out on some games. I expected this game to be uninspiring which not surprisingly it turned out to be. I was at Portsmouth and that was inspiring. Only around 1,000 go to every game, do you think that these are the only people that are proper supporters?
For me personally there are very few games in this league that look like games i could call potentially inspiring/attractive but that does not me deter from attending. I was born & have always resided within 3/4 miles of 'The Valley' so i've no excuse not to attend every home game. As a person who is dependent on public transport i would never relocate to somewhere where it would deter me from attending a home game. The Charlton TV /streaming argument has been gone over many times on this forum, but if i was living miles away & a Premiership match or Champions League game was on the tv i would probably watch that in preference to watching a 3rd division game in a silent deserted stadium but if i happened to be located near a non-league club for instance i rather would rather go & watch them than being stuck indoors watching the tv. The people who attend home & away matches regularly i would describe as loyal supporters.
Thing is Clive most people don't want to dedicate their life to Charlton.
But spend most of their time looking at a forum about Charlton!
This is exactly what the EFL want by allowing streaming for midweek, more and more will give cold nights a miss and the crowds will continue to decline.
Charlton have made the issue even worse by enhancing their own coverage.
As a club we really should be looking at how we can get them local teenagers who were there last night back, but paying to get in and adding to those of us still going.
Puzzled that you think the EFL want this? Genuine question
They have allowed streaming to occur in the UK for midweek matches. Once you allow this it is obvious in the bottom 2 leagues the crowds will drop off and this will continue a lot more into the future.
I didn't go as couldn't justify my 120 mile round trip for such an uninspiring fixture. I wouldn't have gone if it wasn't streamed so the club got £10 more revenue from me. I would say this is the case for quite a few people.
I know it’s pedantic but your £10 includes VAT and the club is unlikely to get all of the balance. It will likely be split with the opposition and the provider. It’s probably more like £4/£5.
That payment can allow multiple people to watch the game and the club gets no ancillary revenue from programme, refreshments, etc, sales.
Don’t imagine either that Curbs etc do it for nothing. Nor should they.
This could only work as a business model if the club was racking up huge online sales to offset lost stadium revenue from match ticket and ancillary sales.
There’s very little chance of that in my opinion.
A family of four might easily generate £60 net revenue at the stadium. On a screen they generate under a tenth of that.
It’s by no means all that’s going on, but it’s a part of the problem. However this horse has bolted.
But the poster said he wasn’t going to the game with it without a stream. None of that extra income was going to happen with or without the stream.
Curbs and co, cameras and all the other fixed costs would also still be there without the stream being available within the UK as CharltonTV has - thankfully- been available to international fans for years. On this occasion the club absolutely made more money than had it not been available in the UK.
There is extra income from season ticket holders who stream but would not attend in any circumstances - that’s a fact but it’s tiny. If there were (at most) 4,000 season ticket holders missing, and that generated (at most) 2,000 paid streams the likely net revenue is about £10k.
I think you can argue about specific games and their relative appeal but it’s only going to take the loss of 500 ticket purchasers (if, say, average net stadium revenue is £20 per person - it’s probably a bit lower to be fair) to offset that income. Even if those people buy streams, it will be far fewer than 500 because multiple people can view one stream, and the loss of revenue is far more per person than the gain from STs.
The fixed costs of the stream then have to be set against the total revenue from it. This will include overseas, never attenders and away fans, so maybe Charlton TV stacks up on its own, but the effect on stadium revenue will offset that. What’s left is goodwill.
In any event we all know that the stream is available for every game to anyone who wants it and has minimal technical ability. It’s not just about Cheltenham on a Tuesday night.
I am not arguing it’s a negative per se, just that it won’t stack up financially and is damaging attendances. The fact that the football is rubbish and the narrative from the management token and not credible is obviously a factor too.
As others have said, the experience in the ground is damaged by low crowds. That will have an iterative effect.
This is exactly what the EFL want by allowing streaming for midweek, more and more will give cold nights a miss and the crowds will continue to decline.
Charlton have made the issue even worse by enhancing their own coverage.
As a club we really should be looking at how we can get them local teenagers who were there last night back, but paying to get in and adding to those of us still going.
Puzzled that you think the EFL want this? Genuine question
They have allowed streaming to occur in the UK for midweek matches. Once you allow this it is obvious in the bottom 2 leagues the crowds will drop off and this will continue a lot more into the future.
I didn't go as couldn't justify my 120 mile round trip for such an uninspiring fixture. I wouldn't have gone if it wasn't streamed so the club got £10 more revenue from me. I would say this is the case for quite a few people.
I know it’s pedantic but your £10 includes VAT and the club is unlikely to get all of the balance. It will likely be split with the opposition and the provider. It’s probably more like £4/£5.
That payment can allow multiple people to watch the game and the club gets no ancillary revenue from programme, refreshments, etc, sales.
Don’t imagine either that Curbs etc do it for nothing. Nor should they.
This could only work as a business model if the club was racking up huge online sales to offset lost stadium revenue from match ticket and ancillary sales.
There’s very little chance of that in my opinion.
A family of four might easily generate £60 net revenue at the stadium. On a screen they generate under a tenth of that.
It’s by no means all that’s going on, but it’s a part of the problem. However this horse has bolted.
But the poster said he wasn’t going to the game with it without a stream. None of that extra income was going to happen with or without the stream.
Curbs and co, cameras and all the other fixed costs would also still be there without the stream being available within the UK as CharltonTV has - thankfully- been available to international fans for years. On this occasion the club absolutely made more money than had it not been available in the UK.
As others have said, the experience in the ground is damaged by low crowds. That will have an iterative effect.
The club itself has been damaged by 15 odd years of poor ownership and team performance, save for a couple of good seasons in that time.
We usually say the championship is our natural level, but having spent the majority of the last 15 in the third tier, I don't think that's the case anymore.
It breaks my heart and makes me angry at the same time, but there is hope that we would rise again like we did in the 90s, but it will take an owner willing to spend and be competent enough to hire a good management team. When will that be, will it ever happen? Could we become a Rochdale or a Swindon and just be perpetually stuck at a maximum of the third tier? Forever hamstrung by poor decisions at the top? I don't know, and that scares me.
i'd like to see all streaming or televising of matches banned outside of the premier league - its definitely affecting attendances - charlton tv was great during lockdown and is obviously great for those living a long distance away or abroad but unfortunately if you do live a long way away its part of the deal that you aren't going to be able to watch your team - if its going to kill the live attendances - i think charlton tv is coming to an end anyway and tightly so but all other streaming and televising also needs banning - no fans in the stadium, no spectacle - be like a modern cup game every week !!!
This is exactly what the EFL want by allowing streaming for midweek, more and more will give cold nights a miss and the crowds will continue to decline.
Charlton have made the issue even worse by enhancing their own coverage.
As a club we really should be looking at how we can get them local teenagers who were there last night back, but paying to get in and adding to those of us still going.
Puzzled that you think the EFL want this? Genuine question
They have allowed streaming to occur in the UK for midweek matches. Once you allow this it is obvious in the bottom 2 leagues the crowds will drop off and this will continue a lot more into the future.
I didn't go as couldn't justify my 120 mile round trip for such an uninspiring fixture. I wouldn't have gone if it wasn't streamed so the club got £10 more revenue from me. I would say this is the case for quite a few people.
I know it’s pedantic but your £10 includes VAT and the club is unlikely to get all of the balance. It will likely be split with the opposition and the provider. It’s probably more like £4/£5.
That payment can allow multiple people to watch the game and the club gets no ancillary revenue from programme, refreshments, etc, sales.
Don’t imagine either that Curbs etc do it for nothing. Nor should they.
This could only work as a business model if the club was racking up huge online sales to offset lost stadium revenue from match ticket and ancillary sales.
There’s very little chance of that in my opinion.
A family of four might easily generate £60 net revenue at the stadium. On a screen they generate under a tenth of that.
It’s by no means all that’s going on, but it’s a part of the problem. However this horse has bolted.
But the poster said he wasn’t going to the game with it without a stream. None of that extra income was going to happen with or without the stream.
Curbs and co, cameras and all the other fixed costs would also still be there without the stream being available within the UK as CharltonTV has - thankfully- been available to international fans for years. On this occasion the club absolutely made more money than had it not been available in the UK.
As others have said, the experience in the ground is damaged by low crowds. That will have an iterative effect.
The club itself has been damaged by 15 odd years of poor ownership and team performance, save for a couple of good seasons in that time.
We usually say the championship is our natural level, but having spent the majority of the last 15 in the third tier, I don't think that's the case anymore.
It breaks my heart and makes me angry at the same time, but there is hope that we would rise again like we did in the 90s, but it will take an owner willing to spend and be competent enough to hire a good management team. When will that be, will it ever happen? Could we become a Rochdale or a Swindon and just be perpetually stuck at a maximum of the third tier? Forever hamstrung by poor decisions at the top? I don't know, and that scares me.
For better or worse, this can’t happen. The club will continue to lose too much money in L1 for it to stabilise there - you cannot cut your way to breakeven and attempts to do so will always fail. Sooner or later this will remove the current management / ownership or force the owners to invest to break the cycle. But we cannot plod along in L1 and for an owner or group of owners with no affiliation other than financial there is no point in doing so once they realise that.
For the management it’s a free ride until they do.
Sorry to whinge on about an old hobby horse of mine but I went on Tuesday (I'm a season ticket holder) and wouldn't think about not going to every home game other than through sickness or having an event arranged before the fixture list comes out.
However, I am still considered only to be a phase 8 "Loyalty points" fan when it comes to tickets on restricted sale.
If you start going to away games as well, you’ll move up the pecking order !
I agree with you there and do go to a few but it's the Valley Gold without a season ticket being ahead of me and, in particular, the two or more tickets per applicant that I don't agree with.
Sorry to whinge on about an old hobby horse of mine but I went on Tuesday (I'm a season ticket holder) and wouldn't think about not going to every home game other than through sickness or having an event arranged before the fixture list comes out.
However, I am still considered only to be a phase 8 "Loyalty points" fan when it comes to tickets on restricted sale.
If you start going to away games as well, you’ll move up the pecking order !
I agree with you there and do go to a few but it's the Valley Gold without a season ticket being ahead of me and, in particular, the two or more tickets per applicant that I don't agree with.
The Valley Gold part is a nonsense and needs pulling apart but not enough people seem interested in raising it
Comments
As somebody who attends every game home & away i find it strange why people bother to buy a season ticket if they can't be bothered to turn up to home games.
If you found the fixture was so uninspiring, why bother to watch it at all, there was a few good champions league fixtures that evening on tv, why not watch one of those?
In the case of my season ticket if i miss 2 games, i would be better off paying the matchday prices, in the West/Alan Curbishley stands you are not meant to sit where you want, because of the ridiculous zonal pricing system.
Also in this & other threads i see people complaining about the lack of atmosphere, this will obviously be the case if people buy season tickets & can't be bothered to to turn up.
As other people have mentioned it must be very hard to convince people who turn up for the first time to return to 'The Valley' when it is almost deserted & almost silent.
Apparently the club loses money on Charlton TV.
You haven't answered my question, what fixtures in this division are attractive/inspiring?
Edit - I think for me and my son, not being able to swap who goes might well be the difference between us buying season tickets or not, should the club decide that they wanted to go down the more restrictive route.
However, I am still considered only to be a phase 8 "Loyalty points" fan when it comes to tickets on restricted sale.
That payment can allow multiple people to watch the game and the club gets no ancillary revenue from programme, refreshments, etc, sales.
Don’t imagine either that Curbs etc do it for nothing. Nor should they.
This could only work as a business model if the club was racking up huge online sales to offset lost stadium revenue from match ticket and ancillary sales.
There’s very little chance of that in my opinion.
A family of four might easily generate £60 net revenue at the stadium. On a screen they generate under a tenth of that.
It’s by no means all that’s going on, but it’s a part of the problem. However this horse has bolted.
Curbs and co, cameras and all the other fixed costs would also still be there without the stream being available within the UK as CharltonTV has - thankfully- been available to international fans for years. On this occasion the club absolutely made more money than had it not been available in the UK.
I was born & have always resided within 3/4 miles of 'The Valley' so i've no excuse not to attend every home game.
As a person who is dependent on public transport i would never relocate to somewhere where it would deter me from attending a home game.
The Charlton TV /streaming argument has been gone over many times on this forum, but if i was living miles away & a Premiership match or Champions League game was on the tv i would probably watch that in preference to watching a 3rd division game in a silent deserted stadium but if i happened to be located near a non-league club for instance i rather would rather go & watch them than being stuck indoors watching the tv.
The people who attend home & away matches regularly i would describe as loyal supporters.
I think you can argue about specific games and their relative appeal but it’s only going to take the loss of 500 ticket purchasers (if, say, average net stadium revenue is £20 per person - it’s probably a bit lower to be fair) to offset that income. Even if those people buy streams, it will be far fewer than 500 because multiple people can view one stream, and the loss of revenue is far more per person than the gain from STs.
The fixed costs of the stream then have to be set against the total revenue from it. This will include overseas, never attenders and away fans, so maybe Charlton TV stacks up on its own, but the effect on stadium revenue will offset that. What’s left is goodwill.
In any event we all know that the stream is available for every game to anyone who wants it and has minimal technical ability. It’s not just about Cheltenham on a Tuesday night.
I am not arguing it’s a negative per se, just that it won’t stack up financially and is damaging attendances. The fact that the football is rubbish and the narrative from the management token and not credible is obviously a factor too.
As others have said, the experience in the ground is damaged by low crowds. That will have an iterative effect.
We usually say the championship is our natural level, but having spent the majority of the last 15 in the third tier, I don't think that's the case anymore.
It breaks my heart and makes me angry at the same time, but there is hope that we would rise again like we did in the 90s, but it will take an owner willing to spend and be competent enough to hire a good management team. When will that be, will it ever happen? Could we become a Rochdale or a Swindon and just be perpetually stuck at a maximum of the third tier? Forever hamstrung by poor decisions at the top? I don't know, and that scares me.
Sooner or later this will remove the current management / ownership or force the owners to invest to break the cycle. But we cannot plod along in L1 and for an owner or group of owners with no affiliation other than financial there is no point in doing so once they realise that.
For the management it’s a free ride until they do.