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Holden sacked?! (Ed. Yes - Confirmed)

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  • edited August 2023

    - Dean Holden was apparently recommended to TS by the current SMT. Effectively their choice, 8 months ago.

    - He inherited a crap squad that was in chaos. Remember the Stockport cup humiliation?

    - Admittedly the delay to the takeover completion didn't help to make a smooth well-planned pre-season.

    - He has ONE fit senior striker. ONE! 

    - As of a week ago he had 10 -TEN - injured players. 

    - He has had to play two debutant 18 year olds in every game, for the simple reason that there were no better choices.

    - He was told that he cannot bring more players in if he keeps picking the trash (Kirk, DJ , McG). Yes, I have a source for that. None of the trash was on the bench on Saturday.

    So yeah, the "solution" to a poor start is to sack a manager you gave a three year contract to in March with a week to go of the window and irons supposedly in the fire, especially a striker. 

    As I've been saying for nigh on 30 years since I got involved in management recruitment: any idiot can sack someone. The difficult bit is getting in someone "better", especially if you keep being the same idiot each year or less.


    "Someone challenge me on that?" © Charles Harry Finlayson Methven
    I don't dispute he improved our performances after Garner-ball (it was a relatively obvious idea to "get the ball forward quicker", as DH described it) but, as I've said earlier, tactical naivety alone in the last 3 games (including first-rate impression of a stuffed dummy on the touchline at crucial moments and leaving clearly-knackered youngsters on for too long) and shockingly poor set-piece coaching in both boxes, is enough for me to be in no doubt it's right to replace DH now.
    He could have a fully-fit £30m squad and still potentially (probably IMO) not have the ability as a manager to get us promotion.
    You're right he was SMT's choice but it's not unreasonable to assume they had to work within TS's budget and have his sign off. TS would have had to (and for a while did) live with the choice if the deal fell through.
    So we shouldn't assume DH was ever their #1 choice or defines their budget for a new appointment.
    We'll find out soon. 
    With great respect, Mr Peanuts, your first para. reads as if Methven and co. appointed him only in the close season and had no idea how -apparently - "tactically naive" he is. But that's not the case. Methven was in and around the club from December- when Holden and the others came in-  through to February, and had a half-season to monitor results and take soundings. If he's really as bad as you paint him, you'd think  Charlie- "I know football" - Methven would have spotted it, and have had a replacement lined up to take over as soon as the deal was done; so that at least said replacement could get some of his own choices in, and certainly influence the pre-season. 

    Given that, you haven't persuaded me at all that the timing of this isn't symptomatic of panic and breathtaking incompetence. Or possibly, as @sm above says, symptomatic of hedge-fund management mentality.
    I'm not unaware of the timing of his appointment or that Methven's management crew were installed until the deal appeared to fall through. Having re-read it, nothing I said seems to me to imply otherwise.
    DH did well enough at for the remainder of last season though when looking like we might still have a run at the play offs, we still fell flat and finished poorly. Did you watch the game at Portman Road in April?
    Persuading you of anything wasn't my purpose. All I was saying is that your assertion, that DH was effectively their choice, should be qualified by the fact that TS is hardly likely to have given them a blank cheque for the appointment. We don't know for sure but he was not necessarily ever their #1 choice.

  • - Dean Holden was apparently recommended to TS by the current SMT. Effectively their choice, 8 months ago.

    - He inherited a crap squad that was in chaos. Remember the Stockport cup humiliation?

    - Admittedly the delay to the takeover completion didn't help to make a smooth well-planned pre-season.

    - He has ONE fit senior striker. ONE! 

    - As of a week ago he had 10 -TEN - injured players. 

    - He has had to play two debutant 18 year olds in every game, for the simple reason that there were no better choices.

    - He was told that he cannot bring more players in if he keeps picking the trash (Kirk, DJ , McG). Yes, I have a source for that. None of the trash was on the bench on Saturday.

    So yeah, the "solution" to a poor start is to sack a manager you gave a three year contract to in March with a week to go of the window and irons supposedly in the fire, especially a striker. 

    As I've been saying for nigh on 30 years since I got involved in management recruitment: any idiot can sack someone. The difficult bit is getting in someone "better", especially if you keep being the same idiot each year or less.


    "Someone challenge me on that?" © Charles Harry Finlayson Methven
    I don't dispute he improved our performances after Garner-ball (it was a relatively obvious idea to "get the ball forward quicker", as DH described it) but, as I've said earlier, tactical naivety alone in the last 3 games (including first-rate impression of a stuffed dummy on the touchline at crucial moments and leaving clearly-knackered youngsters on for too long) and shockingly poor set-piece coaching in both boxes, is enough for me to be in no doubt it's right to replace DH now.
    He could have a fully-fit £30m squad and still potentially (probably IMO) not have the ability as a manager to get us promotion.
    You're right he was SMT's choice but it's not unreasonable to assume they had to work within TS's budget and have his sign off. TS would have had to (and for a while did) live with the choice if the deal fell through.
    So we shouldn't assume DH was ever their #1 choice or defines their budget for a new appointment.
    We'll find out soon. 
    With great respect, Mr Peanuts, your first para. reads as if Methven and co. appointed him only in the close season and had no idea how -apparently - "tactically naive" he is. But that's not the case. Methven was in and around the club from December- when Holden and the others came in-  through to February, and had a half-season to monitor results and take soundings. If he's really as bad as you paint him, you'd think  Charlie- "I know football" - Methven would have spotted it, and have had a replacement lined up to take over as soon as the deal was done; so that at least said replacement could get some of his own choices in, and certainly influence the pre-season. 

    Given that, you haven't persuaded me at all that the timing of this isn't symptomatic of panic and breathtaking incompetence. Or possibly, as @sm above says, symptomatic of hedge-fund management mentality.

    I think it’s primarily Charlie covering his arse and distancing his little gang from the worst start since 1990. 
    Yes that's what I thought.  Sack a manager and leave people to conclude he was the problem, and look as though you are taking decisive action at the same time.  Happens all the time.

  • - Dean Holden was apparently recommended to TS by the current SMT. Effectively their choice, 8 months ago.

    - He inherited a crap squad that was in chaos. Remember the Stockport cup humiliation?

    - Admittedly the delay to the takeover completion didn't help to make a smooth well-planned pre-season.

    - He has ONE fit senior striker. ONE! 

    - As of a week ago he had 10 -TEN - injured players. 

    - He has had to play two debutant 18 year olds in every game, for the simple reason that there were no better choices.

    - He was told that he cannot bring more players in if he keeps picking the trash (Kirk, DJ , McG). Yes, I have a source for that. None of the trash was on the bench on Saturday.

    So yeah, the "solution" to a poor start is to sack a manager you gave a three year contract to in March with a week to go of the window and irons supposedly in the fire, especially a striker. 

    As I've been saying for nigh on 30 years since I got involved in management recruitment: any idiot can sack someone. The difficult bit is getting in someone "better", especially if you keep being the same idiot each year or less.


    "Someone challenge me on that?" © Charles Harry Finlayson Methven
    I don't dispute he improved our performances after Garner-ball (it was a relatively obvious idea to "get the ball forward quicker", as DH described it) but, as I've said earlier, tactical naivety alone in the last 3 games (including first-rate impression of a stuffed dummy on the touchline at crucial moments and leaving clearly-knackered youngsters on for too long) and shockingly poor set-piece coaching in both boxes, is enough for me to be in no doubt it's right to replace DH now.
    He could have a fully-fit £30m squad and still potentially (probably IMO) not have the ability as a manager to get us promotion.
    You're right he was SMT's choice but it's not unreasonable to assume they had to work within TS's budget and have his sign off. TS would have had to (and for a while did) live with the choice if the deal fell through.
    So we shouldn't assume DH was ever their #1 choice or defines their budget for a new appointment.
    We'll find out soon. 
    With great respect, Mr Peanuts, your first para. reads as if Methven and co. appointed him only in the close season and had no idea how -apparently - "tactically naive" he is. But that's not the case. Methven was in and around the club from December- when Holden and the others came in-  through to February, and had a half-season to monitor results and take soundings. If he's really as bad as you paint him, you'd think  Charlie- "I know football" - Methven would have spotted it, and have had a replacement lined up to take over as soon as the deal was done; so that at least said replacement could get some of his own choices in, and certainly influence the pre-season. 

    Given that, you haven't persuaded me at all that the timing of this isn't symptomatic of panic and breathtaking incompetence. Or possibly, as @sm above says, symptomatic of hedge-fund management mentality.

    I think it’s primarily Charlie covering his arse and distancing his little gang from the worst start since 1990. 
    Not really, it turns the heat up on them, I would say! 
  • edited August 2023
    Redhenry said:
    If there isn’t a Manager and back room team ready to come in immediately the decision to clear out the whole team is idiotic IMO
    Agree although it is quite a good negotiation tool to be able to say to a new man you can bring in whomever you like to work with. 
  • bobmunro said:
    seth plum said:
    I would like to know which exact individual texted Dean Holden to sack him.
    It would be an indication as to where the real power in the club lies, and also an indication as to who is a complete **** for choosing to or agreeing to do it that way.
    Not sure the person who texted would necessarily have the real power - but would agree with your second part of the sentence.

    That’s why I used the word indication, see also hint or clue.
    You are a lovely man who works in Human Resources and I am glad you agree that your boss sacking you by text defines the character of the boss.
    If Andy Scott or whoever did it on someone’s say so he should have refused. I can’t imagine you behaving that way.
  • DubaiCAFC said:

    - Dean Holden was apparently recommended to TS by the current SMT. Effectively their choice, 8 months ago.

    - He inherited a crap squad that was in chaos. Remember the Stockport cup humiliation?

    - Admittedly the delay to the takeover completion didn't help to make a smooth well-planned pre-season.

    - He has ONE fit senior striker. ONE! 

    - As of a week ago he had 10 -TEN - injured players. 

    - He has had to play two debutant 18 year olds in every game, for the simple reason that there were no better choices.

    - He was told that he cannot bring more players in if he keeps picking the trash (Kirk, DJ , McG). Yes, I have a source for that. None of the trash was on the bench on Saturday.

    So yeah, the "solution" to a poor start is to sack a manager you gave a three year contract to in March with a week to go of the window and irons supposedly in the fire, especially a striker. 

    As I've been saying for nigh on 30 years since I got involved in management recruitment: any idiot can sack someone. The difficult bit is getting in someone "better", especially if you keep being the same idiot each year or less.


    "Someone challenge me on that?" © Charles Harry Finlayson Methven
    I don't dispute he improved our performances after Garner-ball (it was a relatively obvious idea to "get the ball forward quicker", as DH described it) but, as I've said earlier, tactical naivety alone in the last 3 games (including first-rate impression of a stuffed dummy on the touchline at crucial moments and leaving clearly-knackered youngsters on for too long) and shockingly poor set-piece coaching in both boxes, is enough for me to be in no doubt it's right to replace DH now.
    He could have a fully-fit £30m squad and still potentially (probably IMO) not have the ability as a manager to get us promotion.
    You're right he was SMT's choice but it's not unreasonable to assume they had to work within TS's budget and have his sign off. TS would have had to (and for a while did) live with the choice if the deal fell through.
    So we shouldn't assume DH was ever their #1 choice or defines their budget for a new appointment.
    We'll find out soon. 
    With great respect, Mr Peanuts, your first para. reads as if Methven and co. appointed him only in the close season and had no idea how -apparently - "tactically naive" he is. But that's not the case. Methven was in and around the club from December- when Holden and the others came in-  through to February, and had a half-season to monitor results and take soundings. If he's really as bad as you paint him, you'd think  Charlie- "I know football" - Methven would have spotted it, and have had a replacement lined up to take over as soon as the deal was done; so that at least said replacement could get some of his own choices in, and certainly influence the pre-season. 

    Given that, you haven't persuaded me at all that the timing of this isn't symptomatic of panic and breathtaking incompetence. Or possibly, as @sm above says, symptomatic of hedge-fund management mentality.

    I think it’s primarily Charlie covering his arse and distancing his little gang from the worst start since 1990. 
    Not really, it turns the heat up on them, I would say! 
    With whom, though? They can look as if they are doing something if asked by the investors. 
    With the fans! 
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  • DubaiCAFC said:

    - Dean Holden was apparently recommended to TS by the current SMT. Effectively their choice, 8 months ago.

    - He inherited a crap squad that was in chaos. Remember the Stockport cup humiliation?

    - Admittedly the delay to the takeover completion didn't help to make a smooth well-planned pre-season.

    - He has ONE fit senior striker. ONE! 

    - As of a week ago he had 10 -TEN - injured players. 

    - He has had to play two debutant 18 year olds in every game, for the simple reason that there were no better choices.

    - He was told that he cannot bring more players in if he keeps picking the trash (Kirk, DJ , McG). Yes, I have a source for that. None of the trash was on the bench on Saturday.

    So yeah, the "solution" to a poor start is to sack a manager you gave a three year contract to in March with a week to go of the window and irons supposedly in the fire, especially a striker. 

    As I've been saying for nigh on 30 years since I got involved in management recruitment: any idiot can sack someone. The difficult bit is getting in someone "better", especially if you keep being the same idiot each year or less.


    "Someone challenge me on that?" © Charles Harry Finlayson Methven
    I don't dispute he improved our performances after Garner-ball (it was a relatively obvious idea to "get the ball forward quicker", as DH described it) but, as I've said earlier, tactical naivety alone in the last 3 games (including first-rate impression of a stuffed dummy on the touchline at crucial moments and leaving clearly-knackered youngsters on for too long) and shockingly poor set-piece coaching in both boxes, is enough for me to be in no doubt it's right to replace DH now.
    He could have a fully-fit £30m squad and still potentially (probably IMO) not have the ability as a manager to get us promotion.
    You're right he was SMT's choice but it's not unreasonable to assume they had to work within TS's budget and have his sign off. TS would have had to (and for a while did) live with the choice if the deal fell through.
    So we shouldn't assume DH was ever their #1 choice or defines their budget for a new appointment.
    We'll find out soon. 
    With great respect, Mr Peanuts, your first para. reads as if Methven and co. appointed him only in the close season and had no idea how -apparently - "tactically naive" he is. But that's not the case. Methven was in and around the club from December- when Holden and the others came in-  through to February, and had a half-season to monitor results and take soundings. If he's really as bad as you paint him, you'd think  Charlie- "I know football" - Methven would have spotted it, and have had a replacement lined up to take over as soon as the deal was done; so that at least said replacement could get some of his own choices in, and certainly influence the pre-season. 

    Given that, you haven't persuaded me at all that the timing of this isn't symptomatic of panic and breathtaking incompetence. Or possibly, as @sm above says, symptomatic of hedge-fund management mentality.

    I think it’s primarily Charlie covering his arse and distancing his little gang from the worst start since 1990. 
    Not really, it turns the heat up on them, I would say! 
    Covering his arse and putting all the blame at Holden's door. It's not a trick you can get away with too often. Can't make my mind up if the replacement will be the least-cost option or another Methven acolyte. Either way, they will have their work cut-out making us competitive with the state of this squad.
  • edited August 2023
    seth plum said:
    bobmunro said:
    seth plum said:
    I would like to know which exact individual texted Dean Holden to sack him.
    It would be an indication as to where the real power in the club lies, and also an indication as to who is a complete **** for choosing to or agreeing to do it that way.
    Not sure the person who texted would necessarily have the real power - but would agree with your second part of the sentence.

    That’s why I used the word indication, see also hint or clue.
    You are a lovely man who works in Human Resources and I am glad you agree that your boss sacking you by text defines the character of the boss.
    If Andy Scott or whoever did it on someone’s say so he should have refused. I can’t imagine you behaving that way.
    Surely you can only be sacked by your line manager, they can't ask their assistant to do it for them? I assume DH reported into Scott, so must've been him who sent the message. But who knows with Charlton tbh

    Edit. Or I spose Charlie delegated it down to whoever he thought suitable. Can't imagine him having the balls to send it himself.
  • DubaiCAFC said:

    - Dean Holden was apparently recommended to TS by the current SMT. Effectively their choice, 8 months ago.

    - He inherited a crap squad that was in chaos. Remember the Stockport cup humiliation?

    - Admittedly the delay to the takeover completion didn't help to make a smooth well-planned pre-season.

    - He has ONE fit senior striker. ONE! 

    - As of a week ago he had 10 -TEN - injured players. 

    - He has had to play two debutant 18 year olds in every game, for the simple reason that there were no better choices.

    - He was told that he cannot bring more players in if he keeps picking the trash (Kirk, DJ , McG). Yes, I have a source for that. None of the trash was on the bench on Saturday.

    So yeah, the "solution" to a poor start is to sack a manager you gave a three year contract to in March with a week to go of the window and irons supposedly in the fire, especially a striker. 

    As I've been saying for nigh on 30 years since I got involved in management recruitment: any idiot can sack someone. The difficult bit is getting in someone "better", especially if you keep being the same idiot each year or less.


    "Someone challenge me on that?" © Charles Harry Finlayson Methven
    I don't dispute he improved our performances after Garner-ball (it was a relatively obvious idea to "get the ball forward quicker", as DH described it) but, as I've said earlier, tactical naivety alone in the last 3 games (including first-rate impression of a stuffed dummy on the touchline at crucial moments and leaving clearly-knackered youngsters on for too long) and shockingly poor set-piece coaching in both boxes, is enough for me to be in no doubt it's right to replace DH now.
    He could have a fully-fit £30m squad and still potentially (probably IMO) not have the ability as a manager to get us promotion.
    You're right he was SMT's choice but it's not unreasonable to assume they had to work within TS's budget and have his sign off. TS would have had to (and for a while did) live with the choice if the deal fell through.
    So we shouldn't assume DH was ever their #1 choice or defines their budget for a new appointment.
    We'll find out soon. 
    With great respect, Mr Peanuts, your first para. reads as if Methven and co. appointed him only in the close season and had no idea how -apparently - "tactically naive" he is. But that's not the case. Methven was in and around the club from December- when Holden and the others came in-  through to February, and had a half-season to monitor results and take soundings. If he's really as bad as you paint him, you'd think  Charlie- "I know football" - Methven would have spotted it, and have had a replacement lined up to take over as soon as the deal was done; so that at least said replacement could get some of his own choices in, and certainly influence the pre-season. 

    Given that, you haven't persuaded me at all that the timing of this isn't symptomatic of panic and breathtaking incompetence. Or possibly, as @sm above says, symptomatic of hedge-fund management mentality.

    I think it’s primarily Charlie covering his arse and distancing his little gang from the worst start since 1990. 
    Not really, it turns the heat up on them, I would say! 
    Covering his arse and putting all the blame at Holden's door. It's not a trick you can get away with too often. Can't make my mind up if the replacement will be the least-cost option or another Methven acolyte. Either way, they will have their work cut-out making us competitive with the state of this squad.
    I would say it turns up the pressure, Holden was his man, recruitment hasn't been great, and if this appointment of a new manager isn't great, it heats up more pressure! 

    Not sure I get the arse covering.. everyone can see the short fall, manager that had run out of ideas, and recruitment that hasn't been the best so far! But the recruitment is still better than last summer!
  • DubaiCAFC said:
    DubaiCAFC said:

    - Dean Holden was apparently recommended to TS by the current SMT. Effectively their choice, 8 months ago.

    - He inherited a crap squad that was in chaos. Remember the Stockport cup humiliation?

    - Admittedly the delay to the takeover completion didn't help to make a smooth well-planned pre-season.

    - He has ONE fit senior striker. ONE! 

    - As of a week ago he had 10 -TEN - injured players. 

    - He has had to play two debutant 18 year olds in every game, for the simple reason that there were no better choices.

    - He was told that he cannot bring more players in if he keeps picking the trash (Kirk, DJ , McG). Yes, I have a source for that. None of the trash was on the bench on Saturday.

    So yeah, the "solution" to a poor start is to sack a manager you gave a three year contract to in March with a week to go of the window and irons supposedly in the fire, especially a striker. 

    As I've been saying for nigh on 30 years since I got involved in management recruitment: any idiot can sack someone. The difficult bit is getting in someone "better", especially if you keep being the same idiot each year or less.


    "Someone challenge me on that?" © Charles Harry Finlayson Methven
    I don't dispute he improved our performances after Garner-ball (it was a relatively obvious idea to "get the ball forward quicker", as DH described it) but, as I've said earlier, tactical naivety alone in the last 3 games (including first-rate impression of a stuffed dummy on the touchline at crucial moments and leaving clearly-knackered youngsters on for too long) and shockingly poor set-piece coaching in both boxes, is enough for me to be in no doubt it's right to replace DH now.
    He could have a fully-fit £30m squad and still potentially (probably IMO) not have the ability as a manager to get us promotion.
    You're right he was SMT's choice but it's not unreasonable to assume they had to work within TS's budget and have his sign off. TS would have had to (and for a while did) live with the choice if the deal fell through.
    So we shouldn't assume DH was ever their #1 choice or defines their budget for a new appointment.
    We'll find out soon. 
    With great respect, Mr Peanuts, your first para. reads as if Methven and co. appointed him only in the close season and had no idea how -apparently - "tactically naive" he is. But that's not the case. Methven was in and around the club from December- when Holden and the others came in-  through to February, and had a half-season to monitor results and take soundings. If he's really as bad as you paint him, you'd think  Charlie- "I know football" - Methven would have spotted it, and have had a replacement lined up to take over as soon as the deal was done; so that at least said replacement could get some of his own choices in, and certainly influence the pre-season. 

    Given that, you haven't persuaded me at all that the timing of this isn't symptomatic of panic and breathtaking incompetence. Or possibly, as @sm above says, symptomatic of hedge-fund management mentality.

    I think it’s primarily Charlie covering his arse and distancing his little gang from the worst start since 1990. 
    Not really, it turns the heat up on them, I would say! 
    Covering his arse and putting all the blame at Holden's door. It's not a trick you can get away with too often. Can't make my mind up if the replacement will be the least-cost option or another Methven acolyte. Either way, they will have their work cut-out making us competitive with the state of this squad.
    I would say it turns up the pressure, Holden was his man, recruitment hasn't been great, and if this appointment of a new manager isn't great, it heats up more pressure! 

    Not sure I get the arse covering.. everyone can see the short fall, manager that had run out of ideas, and recruitment that hasn't been the best so far! But the recruitment is still better than last summer!
    Better recruitment than last year is an extremely low bar. By your own admission it hasn’t been good enough this year.
  • DubaiCAFC said:

    - Dean Holden was apparently recommended to TS by the current SMT. Effectively their choice, 8 months ago.

    - He inherited a crap squad that was in chaos. Remember the Stockport cup humiliation?

    - Admittedly the delay to the takeover completion didn't help to make a smooth well-planned pre-season.

    - He has ONE fit senior striker. ONE! 

    - As of a week ago he had 10 -TEN - injured players. 

    - He has had to play two debutant 18 year olds in every game, for the simple reason that there were no better choices.

    - He was told that he cannot bring more players in if he keeps picking the trash (Kirk, DJ , McG). Yes, I have a source for that. None of the trash was on the bench on Saturday.

    So yeah, the "solution" to a poor start is to sack a manager you gave a three year contract to in March with a week to go of the window and irons supposedly in the fire, especially a striker. 

    As I've been saying for nigh on 30 years since I got involved in management recruitment: any idiot can sack someone. The difficult bit is getting in someone "better", especially if you keep being the same idiot each year or less.


    "Someone challenge me on that?" © Charles Harry Finlayson Methven
    I don't dispute he improved our performances after Garner-ball (it was a relatively obvious idea to "get the ball forward quicker", as DH described it) but, as I've said earlier, tactical naivety alone in the last 3 games (including first-rate impression of a stuffed dummy on the touchline at crucial moments and leaving clearly-knackered youngsters on for too long) and shockingly poor set-piece coaching in both boxes, is enough for me to be in no doubt it's right to replace DH now.
    He could have a fully-fit £30m squad and still potentially (probably IMO) not have the ability as a manager to get us promotion.
    You're right he was SMT's choice but it's not unreasonable to assume they had to work within TS's budget and have his sign off. TS would have had to (and for a while did) live with the choice if the deal fell through.
    So we shouldn't assume DH was ever their #1 choice or defines their budget for a new appointment.
    We'll find out soon. 
    With great respect, Mr Peanuts, your first para. reads as if Methven and co. appointed him only in the close season and had no idea how -apparently - "tactically naive" he is. But that's not the case. Methven was in and around the club from December- when Holden and the others came in-  through to February, and had a half-season to monitor results and take soundings. If he's really as bad as you paint him, you'd think  Charlie- "I know football" - Methven would have spotted it, and have had a replacement lined up to take over as soon as the deal was done; so that at least said replacement could get some of his own choices in, and certainly influence the pre-season. 

    Given that, you haven't persuaded me at all that the timing of this isn't symptomatic of panic and breathtaking incompetence. Or possibly, as @sm above says, symptomatic of hedge-fund management mentality.

    I think it’s primarily Charlie covering his arse and distancing his little gang from the worst start since 1990. 
    Not really, it turns the heat up on them, I would say! 
    With whom, though? They can look as if they are doing something if asked by the investors. 
    All depends on who you are trying to impress, but as has been said elsewhere, there wasn't a huge fan movement for a new manager. Holden was being criticised for some weird tactical stuff, but was also being cut some slack as almost nobody thought he had been given a great squad of players, and he was also struggling with a long injury list. 
    Sacking Holden by the owners implicitly says he wasn't good enough for their aspirations and they logically should be trying to get a better option in. Failure to do that will be a statement that they are expecting to get results from as little spending as possible, and the fans will be unlikely to see that as a promise of a bright future.
  • edited August 2023
    DubaiCAFC said:
    DubaiCAFC said:

    - Dean Holden was apparently recommended to TS by the current SMT. Effectively their choice, 8 months ago.

    - He inherited a crap squad that was in chaos. Remember the Stockport cup humiliation?

    - Admittedly the delay to the takeover completion didn't help to make a smooth well-planned pre-season.

    - He has ONE fit senior striker. ONE! 

    - As of a week ago he had 10 -TEN - injured players. 

    - He has had to play two debutant 18 year olds in every game, for the simple reason that there were no better choices.

    - He was told that he cannot bring more players in if he keeps picking the trash (Kirk, DJ , McG). Yes, I have a source for that. None of the trash was on the bench on Saturday.

    So yeah, the "solution" to a poor start is to sack a manager you gave a three year contract to in March with a week to go of the window and irons supposedly in the fire, especially a striker. 

    As I've been saying for nigh on 30 years since I got involved in management recruitment: any idiot can sack someone. The difficult bit is getting in someone "better", especially if you keep being the same idiot each year or less.


    "Someone challenge me on that?" © Charles Harry Finlayson Methven
    I don't dispute he improved our performances after Garner-ball (it was a relatively obvious idea to "get the ball forward quicker", as DH described it) but, as I've said earlier, tactical naivety alone in the last 3 games (including first-rate impression of a stuffed dummy on the touchline at crucial moments and leaving clearly-knackered youngsters on for too long) and shockingly poor set-piece coaching in both boxes, is enough for me to be in no doubt it's right to replace DH now.
    He could have a fully-fit £30m squad and still potentially (probably IMO) not have the ability as a manager to get us promotion.
    You're right he was SMT's choice but it's not unreasonable to assume they had to work within TS's budget and have his sign off. TS would have had to (and for a while did) live with the choice if the deal fell through.
    So we shouldn't assume DH was ever their #1 choice or defines their budget for a new appointment.
    We'll find out soon. 
    With great respect, Mr Peanuts, your first para. reads as if Methven and co. appointed him only in the close season and had no idea how -apparently - "tactically naive" he is. But that's not the case. Methven was in and around the club from December- when Holden and the others came in-  through to February, and had a half-season to monitor results and take soundings. If he's really as bad as you paint him, you'd think  Charlie- "I know football" - Methven would have spotted it, and have had a replacement lined up to take over as soon as the deal was done; so that at least said replacement could get some of his own choices in, and certainly influence the pre-season. 

    Given that, you haven't persuaded me at all that the timing of this isn't symptomatic of panic and breathtaking incompetence. Or possibly, as @sm above says, symptomatic of hedge-fund management mentality.

    I think it’s primarily Charlie covering his arse and distancing his little gang from the worst start since 1990. 
    Not really, it turns the heat up on them, I would say! 
    Covering his arse and putting all the blame at Holden's door. It's not a trick you can get away with too often. Can't make my mind up if the replacement will be the least-cost option or another Methven acolyte. Either way, they will have their work cut-out making us competitive with the state of this squad.
    I would say it turns up the pressure, Holden was his man, recruitment hasn't been great, and if this appointment of a new manager isn't great, it heats up more pressure! 

    Not sure I get the arse covering.. everyone can see the short fall, manager that had run out of ideas, and recruitment that hasn't been the best so far! But the recruitment is still better than last summer!
    Don’t agree here. The overall squad is currently weaker than it was last year in my opinion. 
  • Personally, I’d like to see Chris Powell given another crack of the whip. After the Duchatelet debacle, he’s got unfinished business. Anyone else is just going to divide the support. The club is in a right old mess. We’ve had a shocking start to the season. Holden was out of his depth and that was proved by his tactics and team selection on Saturday. Now is the time to get behind Jason Pearce and I’m hoping Chris Powell in the near future. Only five games in but the season is still salvable. 
  • Get some sleep Braziliance 
    Cheers Dad, I actually did on this advice 
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  • Now Lee Johnson has been ruled out, why were we so against him, was this some sort of snowball effect going on? 

    Bloke seems pretty friendly, managed some decent sized clubs, decent win rate at most of the clubs managed and got a promotion on his CV. So what was the big deal, saw a lot of people tweeting they'll boycott or it will be the final straw etc, where does that kind of anger/hatred come from? 
  • edited August 2023
    Now Lee Johnson has been ruled out, why were we so against him, was this some sort of snowball effect going on? 

    Bloke seems pretty friendly, managed some decent sized clubs, decent win rate at most of the clubs managed and got a promotion on his CV. So what was the big deal, saw a lot of people tweeting they'll boycott or it will be the final straw etc, where does that kind of anger/hatred come from? 
    Pretty friendly... Karl Robinson called the police after Johnson headbutted Oxford's keeper in the tunnel at half-time.
  • edited August 2023
    BigDiddy said:
    Charlie and his SMT are milking the club for personal gain.

    Wages, expenses, fees, consultancy - fuck knows what else.

    THEY HAVE NOT PUT ANY MONEY INTO THE CLUB - they are a COST. Really important we remember that. I’d be surprised in CM was on anything less than 500k per year and that is why he is here. Thats also the game in town for SMT as they are all talentless chancers who are screwing the club.

    If they were ANY good, why would they be with us?

    As the Airman said, they will look busy in the eyes of the yanks. It will go on for as long as the yanks will cover running costs and when the money stops, then they will all be gone. Think of  Farnell, Southall,  Paul Elliott and all the other knobs that leech money out of football clubs.

    This lot are no different - managerial chaos HELPS them screw more cash out of the club.

    This lot are worse than all the previous owners combined, including that vile scumbag Roly.
    You don't have the career that Andy Scott has had by being a "talentless chancer"
  • edited August 2023
    Return of The Bo...🤔🤷‍♂️
  • Valley11 said:
    @Swisdom how confident are you it won’t be Johnson? 
    How does he KNOW as well?
  • BigDiddy said:
    Charlie and his SMT are milking the club for personal gain.

    Wages, expenses, fees, consultancy - fuck knows what else.

    THEY HAVE NOT PUT ANY MONEY INTO THE CLUB - they are a COST. Really important we remember that. I’d be surprised in CM was on anything less than 500k per year and that is why he is here. Thats also the game in town for SMT as they are all talentless chancers who are screwing the club.

    If they were ANY good, why would they be with us?

    As the Airman said, they will look busy in the eyes of the yanks. It will go on for as long as the yanks will cover running costs and when the money stops, then they will all be gone. Think of  Farnell, Southall,  Paul Elliott and all the other knobs that leech money out of football clubs.

    This lot are no different - managerial chaos HELPS them screw more cash out of the club.

    This lot are worse than all the previous owners combined, including that vile scumbag Roly.
    You don't have the career that Andy Scott has had by being a "talentless chancer"
    Past career 
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