I love shit like this. With all the technology we have now, what could possibly take 6 days to ‘file’. Unless we’ve got my doctors receptionist on the case.
Unless this a whoosh- ‘filing’ is the term used by Law firms for submitting online registration forms / updating companies house etc.
it will be completely with the Lawyers and out of the hands of takeover group, they are relying on the Lawyers do it, but for the Lawyers it is not a priority and they will have multiple clients to attend to, all banging down their door.
The 5-6 days is the full submission / processing / completion of registration time. Once the documents are ‘filed’ (registered) only then is the transaction complete formally and the takeover complete!
Hope this helps.
In the world of listed companies, once all of the approvals have been obtained and the money has changed hands then the deal is required to be announced.
However, it could be that there is a balancing mechanism in the calculation of price relating to the transfers that have taken place since the announcement in early June, and this has to be settled with TS as a "condition precedent" to completion. Of course there could be other "conditions precedent" such as assignment of the guarantee of the leases of the Valley and SL. RD might only sign these or release his signature once the deal is otherwise fundamentally complete.
If these had been written in as "conditions subsequent" then the announcement could proceed, but as with transactions only the lawyers will know the detailed wording. The word "may" is of importance here, since if it is a formality it can be completed more quickly or be further delayed.
Patience is a virtue that most Charlton supporters should have learned by now!
@PragueAddick thanks for publishing the interview. I read it with a completely open mind and no preconceptions. It was refreshing to read that the US based investors are NOT looking for a quick flip. It appears they also understand the 'risks' associated with taking us on, but clearly have a plan to get the club out of L1. The bit about Wycombe Wanderers was an interesting comparison. There is still a lot to disect but on initial reading, I feel very optimistic about our short and medium term future. Proof now is during the rest of the transfer window and the make-up of the Shadow Board!
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Lenegan junior back on the scene then. No different to January then with the set up and just him and Methven that will be the UK people involved.
We will see the pair Horne and away a fair bit then and around the club as well during the week
I regularly speak to a well-known ex-Lifer who is nowadays closely involved with the club, (some will guess who, but let's respect his unwillingness to be all over social) and he reckons that Lenagan Snr. will also be involved and The Lenagans will have the 3rd biggest share after Friedman and Brener. But I haven't been able to independently verify that, as the journos say.
It seems correct that CM and SL are the only UK based people involved, however he indicates in the update that Gavin Carter will join "the CAFC Board"; that seems to be a move to modify what CM says originally, that he will be the main link between the consortium and Rodwell and CAFC management. That's something to closely watch, I think.
Lenagan senior is 77 now so how involved would he want to be at his age. Also he’s not due to sell his remaining 51 percent to Mike Danson in the Wigan Warriors Rugby League club until December 1st.
@PragueAddick thanks very much for posting the interview - obviously have to take what CM says with a pinch of salt but it is interesting to read his approach to things set out.
One immediate thought is that the passage around the investors reasons for getting involved - not looking for a return / flip - doesn't make any sense to me. Why bother paying as much as they have for a club with no assets if the play isn't to flip it?
I don't want to start sounding like a CM ambassador, but I think he means something like this: The ESI gangs had no money, and their only goal was to get some, by flipping it quickly; TS had some money but not as much to spare as he belatedly realised the thing would need. I don't know if we've really established how rich Friedman and Brener are; but I think CM is implying that they are rich enough that this is a small punt for them moneywise. So theirprofessional pride demands that sooner or later they see a profit - a big one if we return to the FAPL - but they can wait and see. Unlike Southall, NImer, et al who needed easy money, quickly.
I hope so, anyway, but as you say, keep the salt handy...
Ok I will be very honest here, CM talks a very good game, and multiple parts of that interview should quell any fears about shutting down the academy or women's team, especially the academy as in seems to be a big point about how it can help create revenue and players for the club.
The structure with the board, shadow board and the big players seeing us as a pretty hands off, small time investment is interesting, as perhaps they won't care about the fan reactions to things, being so "detached" as it were, but again Methven seems to try and dampen that flame of contention by claiming the executives themselves will be making most of the decisions and want to align everything with the history and culture of the club, so if JF or GB phone up and say "what if we close the academy", it seems the executives will be able push back and say "that's a core part of the Charlton Way, not going to happen"
Hopefully I’m not wrong but CM does seem to have recognised where he and associates have got it wrong in the past and have a reasonable understanding of Charlton. I’ll still wait and see though.
Doesn’t sound like we should expect this group to ever purchase The Valley or Sparrows Lane. Whatever CM says, I’d expect this lot to flip the club if we’re pushing for the Premier League. Hopefully that’s 2-3 years away.
One statement that jumped out to me initially was CM’s claim that ‘There’s no one from Texas at all’ involved in the consortium. This isn’t true, as although Brener is from Mexico, he was the majority owner of the Houston Dynamos in the MLS, so obviously has a base there.
This is Methvens very first answer in the interview asking about his own role:
I guess I’d probably end up …I’d be investing my own money to own something like 7%, something like that in a minority investor. But probably the only one of the investors who is or the only one of any significance, who’s based here in the UK, together, maybe with Simon Lenagan, and also, you know, certainly anyone who’s had any kind of involvement in running or helping to run English football clubs; so probably, like,to keep an eye on the joint investment for everybody. And it certainly wouldn’t be my full time job or an executive role. But as, I guess, if you imagine you have a TopCo, and then the football club, probably the person from TopCo, who is expected by the other investors in TopCo to be able to tell them what’s going on, sort of link between the chairman and the technical director and the investors because the investors are mostly pretty big players with much busier lives than me.
And, you know, probably this is a very small part of their portfolio, whereas for me, it’s quite a large part of mine. So I would be sort of, you know, asking questions on behalf of them. Probably. You know, that they that I imagine that they would turn up to some board meetings, but they probably wouldn’t be able to make all board meetings, etc. So it’s a sort of overseeing, asking questions on the one hand, and then the other hand, I think, probably trying to do what I do best. And I think one of the interesting things about my experiences at Oxford at Sunderland at Arsenal and Tottenham have been working out what I’m good at and what I’m not good at; and that’s what happens as you get older unfortunately, you start to become more aware of your own deficiencies.
Clear as mud eh?
Reads to me like the obfuscation I mentioned above. However Methven says he is good for 7% (presumably the EFL have checked on this when looking for ‘security’ for the next two years).
So losses over the next two years are flagged to be about £24 million (could be less if players are fire sold off). That means Methven is putting in £1,680,000 of his own personal money into our club. And is prepared to lose it all if the cards fall in that direction.
All because he loves Charlton Athletic that much. What a guy! I’m off to buy some pink trousers.
Inevitably the interview and the motivations behind it are already being slagged off in certain quarters in the usual style, so I'm posting as a reminder the original intro article which explains that this was all CM's own initiative, The link to the main article is at the bottom of that one. When you get to it, you'll see the banner image is a mess, bear with us, I may need techie help with that.
I think the main benefit is an insight into how the structure will work (assuming he is still able to speak for all significant consortium members). There's more than will be possible to put into a club PR statement even if they wanted to. But there were interesting things he asked to keep off the record, and other things we had no time for, such as the future of the real estate. As you will see, he really wanted to talk about him at Sunderland which I managed to avoid until we got to the end of the designated running time, and Zoom terminated that abruptly
Looking forward to see what people make of it
Lenegan junior back on the scene then. No different to January then with the set up and just him and Methven that will be the UK people involved.
We will see the pair Horne and away a fair bit then and around the club as well during the week
I regularly speak to a well-known ex-Lifer who is nowadays closely involved with the club, (some will guess who, but let's respect his unwillingness to be all over social) and he reckons that Lenagan Snr. will also be involved and The Lenagans will have the 3rd biggest share after Friedman and Brener. But I haven't been able to independently verify that, as the journos say.
It seems correct that CM and SL are the only UK based people involved, however he indicates in the update that Gavin Carter will join "the CAFC Board"; that seems to be a move to modify what CM says originally, that he will be the main link between the consortium and Rodwell and CAFC management. That's something to closely watch, I think.
Lenagan senior is 77 now so how involved would he want to be at his age. Also he’s not due to sell his remaining 51 percent to Mike Danson in the Wigan Warriors Rugby League club until December 1st.
Sure, and I'm just passing on someone else' s informed opinion. He did also say that Lenagan Snr. is sport mad and wants to pass on a commercial sport based legacy to his kids. But you are right, the logistics of Lenagan Snr taking a formal stake right now seem a bit tricky. I guess we wait to see what stake Lenagan Jnr has.
@PragueAddick thanks very much for posting the interview - obviously have to take what CM says with a pinch of salt but it is interesting to read his approach to things set out.
One immediate thought is that the passage around the investors reasons for getting involved - not looking for a return / flip - doesn't make any sense to me. Why bother paying as much as they have for a club with no assets if the play isn't to flip it?
I don't want to start sounding like a CM ambassador, but I think he means something like this: The ESI gangs had no money, and their only goal was to get some, by flipping it quickly; TS had some money but not as much to spare as he belatedly realised the thing would need. I don't know if we've really established how rich Friedman and Brener are; but I think CM is implying that they are rich enough that this is a small punt for them moneywise. So theirprofessional pride demands that sooner or later they see a profit - a big one if we return to the FAPL - but they can wait and see. Unlike Southall, NImer, et al who needed easy money, quickly.
I hope so, anyway, but as you say, keep the salt handy...
I think that I agree with Prague on this one, the supporting evidence being that they have hung around since December/January, reportedly having paid some money in for the privilege of bidding in January that TS was reluctant to refund. That does not imply a flip and run mentality, more a private equity mentality of invest and improve value before realising investment. Good venture capitalists will put a time frame on the investment even so and it may well be in five years if CAFC is successful.
I love shit like this. With all the technology we have now, what could possibly take 6 days to ‘file’. Unless we’ve got my doctors receptionist on the case.
Unless this a whoosh- ‘filing’ is the term used by Law firms for submitting online registration forms / updating companies house etc.
it will be completely with the Lawyers and out of the hands of takeover group, they are relying on the Lawyers do it, but for the Lawyers it is not a priority and they will have multiple clients to attend to, all banging down their door.
The 5-6 days is the full submission / processing / completion of registration time. Once the documents are ‘filed’ (registered) only then is the transaction complete formally and the takeover complete!
I found reading Methven's comments reassuring. The proof of the pudding is always in the eating though. I think the squad is in such a place that a couple of marquee signings, not the maybe they will work, but the they are much better than the league, fit and ready to go and we are likely to get promoted. Otherwise we are battling it out in the top half and hoping things come together. So what I am looking for is those marquee signings. Maybe one would do, If we signed Camara at this time last season, I would count him as one but there is a question mark now. That isn't to say we need to make one or two signings, we need to make more but I am talking about the ones that really elevate you not cover holes. The more expensive ones.
@PragueAddick thanks very much for posting the interview - obviously have to take what CM says with a pinch of salt but it is interesting to read his approach to things set out.
One immediate thought is that the passage around the investors reasons for getting involved - not looking for a return / flip - doesn't make any sense to me. Why bother paying as much as they have for a club with no assets if the play isn't to flip it?
I don't want to start sounding like a CM ambassador, but I think he means something like this: The ESI gangs had no money, and their only goal was to get some, by flipping it quickly; TS had some money but not as much to spare as he belatedly realised the thing would need. I don't know if we've really established how rich Friedman and Brener are; but I think CM is implying that they are rich enough that this is a small punt for them moneywise. So theirprofessional pride demands that sooner or later they see a profit - a big one if we return to the FAPL - but they can wait and see. Unlike Southall, NImer, et al who needed easy money, quickly.
I hope so, anyway, but as you say, keep the salt handy...
I think that I agree with Prague on this one, the supporting evidence being that they have hung around since December/January, reportedly having paid some money in for the privilege of bidding in January that TS was reluctant to refund. That does not imply a flip and run mentality, more a private equity mentality of invest and improve value before realising investment. Good venture capitalists will put a time frame on the investment even so and it may well be in five years if CAFC is successful.
Yes, you've summarised very elegantly what I was struggling to say. Bloody thing has fried my brain in recent days.
@PragueAddick thanks very much for posting the interview - obviously have to take what CM says with a pinch of salt but it is interesting to read his approach to things set out.
One immediate thought is that the passage around the investors reasons for getting involved - not looking for a return / flip - doesn't make any sense to me. Why bother paying as much as they have for a club with no assets if the play isn't to flip it?
I don't want to start sounding like a CM ambassador, but I think he means something like this: The ESI gangs had no money, and their only goal was to get some, by flipping it quickly; TS had some money but not as much to spare as he belatedly realised the thing would need. I don't know if we've really established how rich Friedman and Brener are; but I think CM is implying that they are rich enough that this is a small punt for them moneywise. So theirprofessional pride demands that sooner or later they see a profit - a big one if we return to the FAPL - but they can wait and see. Unlike Southall, NImer, et al who needed easy money, quickly.
I hope so, anyway, but as you say, keep the salt handy...
Thank you for organising and publishing the interview and for answering the ensuing questions, it is appreciated by an older supporter!
He talks a good talk doesn't he? That's the PR man hat, I guess. I worry that I'm missing something major as the answers all seemed so reasonable and the trauma of being owned by wilful egotists, narcissists and crooks for so long means that someone who can have some nuance and talk about football people suddenly looks so much better, even if that's the least we should have expected from the previous lot.
Proof of the pudding and all that. Let's see how we're doing once the quick wins have been done and we're halfway through the season.
@PragueAddick thanks very much for posting the interview - obviously have to take what CM says with a pinch of salt but it is interesting to read his approach to things set out.
One immediate thought is that the passage around the investors reasons for getting involved - not looking for a return / flip - doesn't make any sense to me. Why bother paying as much as they have for a club with no assets if the play isn't to flip it?
I don't want to start sounding like a CM ambassador, but I think he means something like this: The ESI gangs had no money, and their only goal was to get some, by flipping it quickly; TS had some money but not as much to spare as he belatedly realised the thing would need. I don't know if we've really established how rich Friedman and Brener are; but I think CM is implying that they are rich enough that this is a small punt for them moneywise. So their professional pride demands that sooner or later they see a profit - a big one if we return to the FAPL - but they can wait and see. Unlike Southall, NImer, et al who needed easy money, quickly.
I hope so, anyway, but as you say, keep the salt handy...
Thanks Prague.
From what I can find (in a 5 minute web search), Friedman is worth something crazy like $23 Billion. That's pretty well capitalised.
He talks a good talk doesn't he? That's the PR man hat, I guess. I worry that I'm missing something major as the answers all seemed so reasonable and the trauma of being owned by wilful egotists, narcissists and crooks for so long means that someone who can have some nuance and talk about football people suddenly looks so much better, even if that's the least we should have expected from the previous lot.
Proof of the pudding and all that. Let's see how we're doing once the quick wins have been done and we're halfway through the season.
Yes that's 100% how I felt. The bit that he asked to be off the record covered among other things the problems with players' injuries and fitness regimes, and what he said seemed like an uncanny response to me sounding off on here on the subject. Some people have said, well that's not a coincidence, but I can't believe he'd have the time and patience to have trawled in advance through CL to see what I personally bang on about🤣. But we still have that part recorded of course, so as you say, proof of the pudding.
He talks a good talk doesn't he? That's the PR man hat, I guess. I worry that I'm missing something major as the answers all seemed so reasonable and the trauma of being owned by wilful egotists, narcissists and crooks for so long means that someone who can have some nuance and talk about football people suddenly looks so much better, even if that's the least we should have expected from the previous lot.
Proof of the pudding and all that. Let's see how we're doing once the quick wins have been done and we're halfway through the season.
Yes that's 100% how I felt. The bit that he asked to be off the record covered among other things the problems with players' injuries and fitness regimes, and what he said seemed like an uncanny response to me sounding off on here on the subject. Some people have said, well that's not a coincidence, but I can't believe he'd have the time and patience to have trawled in advance through CL to see what I personally bang on about🤣. But we still have that part recorded of course, so as you say, proof of the pudding.
Wouldn’t need to with all his ‘contacts’ on here tbh
Thank you for the interview Prague. Yes the structure is messy, and I'll need to read the transcript more thoroughly to fully try and comprehend it, but overall was reasonably assured by what CM said.
It's been a confusing process. WHY did this deal fall through 6 months ago, it's a weird situation when the likes of Andy Scott were involved in December/January, then disappear for 6 months after the initial collapse, only to return now. Especially when "their" man Dean Holden has been manager all along!
There is definitely a platform for optimism with the usual cautions. It’s done now and this season is the start of the journey. It’s a journey that at this point we’re still not yet equipped for. Four very decent signings apart we’re still in my opinion at least five players deficient. To reasonably guarantee top six those five need to be of quality and not journeyman. Now is the perfect time for SE7 to invest and get some momentum. We know what’s needed and we hope they do.
Comments
However, it could be that there is a balancing mechanism in the calculation of price relating to the transfers that have taken place since the announcement in early June, and this has to be settled with TS as a "condition precedent" to completion. Of course there could be other "conditions precedent" such as assignment of the guarantee of the leases of the Valley and SL. RD might only sign these or release his signature once the deal is otherwise fundamentally complete.
If these had been written in as "conditions subsequent" then the announcement could proceed, but as with transactions only the lawyers will know the detailed wording. The word "may" is of importance here, since if it is a formality it can be completed more quickly or be further delayed.
Patience is a virtue that most Charlton supporters should have learned by now!
It was refreshing to read that the US based investors are NOT looking for a quick flip.
It appears they also understand the 'risks' associated with taking us on, but clearly have a plan to get the club out of L1. The bit about Wycombe Wanderers was an interesting comparison.
There is still a lot to disect but on initial reading, I feel very optimistic about our short and medium term future.
Proof now is during the rest of the transfer window and the make-up of the Shadow Board!
Thanks again.
The journey out of the third division starts here.
Yey.
I hope so, anyway, but as you say, keep the salt handy...
The structure with the board, shadow board and the big players seeing us as a pretty hands off, small time investment is interesting, as perhaps they won't care about the fan reactions to things, being so "detached" as it were, but again Methven seems to try and dampen that flame of contention by claiming the executives themselves will be making most of the decisions and want to align everything with the history and culture of the club, so if JF or GB phone up and say "what if we close the academy", it seems the executives will be able push back and say "that's a core part of the Charlton Way, not going to happen"
Hopefully I’m not wrong but CM does seem
to have recognised where he and associates have got it wrong in the past and have a reasonable understanding of Charlton. I’ll still wait and see though.
This is Methvens very first answer in the interview asking about his own role:
I guess I’d probably end up …I’d be investing my own money to own something like 7%, something like that in a minority investor. But probably the only one of the investors who is or the only one of any significance, who’s based here in the UK, together, maybe with Simon Lenagan, and also, you know, certainly anyone who’s had any kind of involvement in running or helping to run English football clubs; so probably, like,to keep an eye on the joint investment for everybody. And it certainly wouldn’t be my full time job or an executive role. But as, I guess, if you imagine you have a TopCo, and then the football club, probably the person from TopCo, who is expected by the other investors in TopCo to be able to tell them what’s going on, sort of link between the chairman and the technical director and the investors because the investors are mostly pretty big players with much busier lives than me.
And, you know, probably this is a very small part of their portfolio, whereas for me, it’s quite a large part of mine. So I would be sort of, you know, asking questions on behalf of them. Probably. You know, that they that I imagine that they would turn up to some board meetings, but they probably wouldn’t be able to make all board meetings, etc. So it’s a sort of overseeing, asking questions on the one hand, and then the other hand, I think, probably trying to do what I do best. And I think one of the interesting things about my experiences at Oxford at Sunderland at Arsenal and Tottenham have been working out what I’m good at and what I’m not good at; and that’s what happens as you get older unfortunately, you start to become more aware of your own deficiencies.
Clear as mud eh?
Reads to me like the obfuscation I mentioned above. However Methven says he is good for 7% (presumably the EFL have checked on this when looking for ‘security’ for the next two years).
So losses over the next two years are flagged to be about £24 million (could be less if players are fire sold off). That means Methven is putting in £1,680,000 of his own personal money into our club. And is prepared to lose it all if the cards fall in that direction.
All because he loves Charlton Athletic that much. What a guy! I’m off to buy some pink trousers.
He talks a good talk doesn't he? That's the PR man hat, I guess. I worry that I'm missing something major as the answers all seemed so reasonable and the trauma of being owned by wilful egotists, narcissists and crooks for so long means that someone who can have some nuance and talk about football people suddenly looks so much better, even if that's the least we should have expected from the previous lot.
Proof of the pudding and all that. Let's see how we're doing once the quick wins have been done and we're halfway through the season.
From what I can find (in a 5 minute web search), Friedman is worth something crazy like $23 Billion. That's pretty well capitalised.
It's been a confusing process. WHY did this deal fall through 6 months ago, it's a weird situation when the likes of Andy Scott were involved in December/January, then disappear for 6 months after the initial collapse, only to return now. Especially when "their" man Dean Holden has been manager all along!