wouldn’t blame him one bit if he took a gig elsewhere though. This wasn’t the ownership / manager team he was brought in by and expecting to work with.
Lets not forget it took both Powell and Bowyer around a year and a half to win promotion in their respective tenures - Hence why we need to be a little patient with whoever takes charge - Results were of course awful at the beginning under Powell, whilst some of Bowyer's early wins (Blackburn springs to mind) werent exactly nice on the eye.
Ironically both Holden and Garner have the same amount of wins this season
Five wins in 10-games for the former, 5-wins in 21-games for the latter.
I think the Bolton | Derby results are ridiculous pedestals to use when saying Holden's honeymoon period is over, especially as many have also felt that the squad differences between us and those two teams are vast enough in the first place.
24 points from 20 games the much sought after Garner
he’s gotten more of a tune out of them but come the end of the season how much different will it be .
he’ll do well to keep them ticking over at 1.6 pg
we have shit footballers I’m not bothered about any of them another wanky transfer window to look forward to and hype up pony players or maybe things change and we can have genuine players arrive who will give us hope rather than 3rd choice ipswich guff
who knows how good any of these recent managers are wIth the shower of shit squads foisted on them
I’m somewhere in the middle with Holden. He’s done well but was always going to be limited in what he can achieve due to this squad. I don’t blame him for not turning us into a top 6 side, we know we don’t have the players for that.
On his tactics JRS and CBT have to start as our main threats.
Even if we tried them in a 4-4-2 we don’t have enough strikers to consistently play a front two.
Therefore we play 4-3-3 knowing only Leaburn can really play as a lone striker and even he’s still developing.
Holden replacing Garner felt similar to Luzon coming in for Peeters. We went from playing too slowly and taking too many touches to playing faster and a bit more direct. It needed to be done to keep us in this league but it doesn’t tell us how he’d do with his own squad. What would a Holden squad look like and would the style become more direct? We don’t even know if he’d stick with 4-3-3, switch to 3-5-2 or something else.
On balance I’d stick with him because we can’t keep changing managers. As always what happens next season will mainly be down to our recruitment. Without that no manager has a chance. We’ve signed too many who aren’t good enough and not enough top end L1 players
Yup. Pretty much this.
Given how quickly, Sandgaard/ Jackson/ Garner/ Andy Scott went from new dawn to false dawn probably best to wait a little longer on deciding Holden's moniker.
We've a limited squad with a limited way to play, realistically we have two wingers. And they have to play "inverted". Can't really judge him that well based on what he's working with. he's shown enough on the football side that he's a dependable pragmatic type, and that'll do fine. Trying to rebrand yourself as the league one Arsenal is great when you have the time and resources to do it but, this is league one, where a pool of 10 teams could make top 6 and another 10 bottom 6.
Let's do something crazy and try a bit of stability.
Would be offering him an 18 month/ 2 year deal and see what he can do with a full summer to recruit. The signs are promising but it's going to be another 10+ signing summer to try and integrate.
Sadly the club is in such overall dire management, that it doesn't feel critical who our manager is. They will have a good period, then the usual injuries and under investment begins to show.
So QPR never even spoke to us about Holden .. can’t believe the hysteria from fans over this .. he done ok , in his favour he got good results but still a few bad ones and indifferent performances, he is playing with someone else’s squad to a point , and his still not playing his fav system … but is he Pep mark two has some of the reaction to him leaving would suggest No he not .. personally seeing signs of another manager that will stick to his system come what may even when it’s clear it’s not working .. it’s pretty clear teams have worked our system and players out , hence overloading the midfield and wide areas , they know if we play CBT and Raki that they will not track back which leaves our defenders under pressure . We can see it why can’t Holden this weekend sure Sheff Wed will do the same .
So Holden will do till end of season but not sure he the manager to get us promotion ??
No matter who we have as manager you cant polish a turd players/squad are just not good enough to compete at the level we need to be and pushing near the top end
he has done well so far i think to help avoid a relegation scrap at the minute anyway
it all boils down to sandgaard and the lack of help/budget he allows any manager to have
I’m somewhere in the middle with Holden. He’s done well but was always going to be limited in what he can achieve due to this squad. I don’t blame him for not turning us into a top 6 side, we know we don’t have the players for that.
On his tactics JRS and CBT have to start as our main threats.
Even if we tried them in a 4-4-2 we don’t have enough strikers to consistently play a front two.
Therefore we play 4-3-3 knowing only Leaburn can really play as a lone striker and even he’s still developing.
Holden replacing Garner felt similar to Luzon coming in for Peeters. We went from playing too slowly and taking too many touches to playing faster and a bit more direct. It needed to be done to keep us in this league but it doesn’t tell us how he’d do with his own squad. What would a Holden squad look like and would the style become more direct? We don’t even know if he’d stick with 4-3-3, switch to 3-5-2 or something else.
On balance I’d stick with him because we can’t keep changing managers. As always what happens next season will mainly be down to our recruitment. Without that no manager has a chance. We’ve signed too many who aren’t good enough and not enough top end L1 players.
Agree with this. Doesn’t matter who the manager is if they aren’t backed. Jackson didn’t get the chance of a summer, Garner wasn’t backed and Holden now needs to be given a summer and be backed before he can really be judged.
I think he will switch to 3-5-2 and that could be a great idea with Leaburn and Kanu already showing they’ve got a good partnership. Will need a left sided centre back, couple of left wing backs, a goalscoring midfielder and a couple of strikers at least. Inevitable we will mess up another summer and not get half of this
So QPR never even spoke to us about Holden .. can’t believe the hysteria from fans over this .. he done ok , in his favour he got good results but still a few bad ones and indifferent performances, he is playing with someone else’s squad to a point , and his still not playing his fav system … but is he Pep mark two has some of the reaction to him leaving would suggest No he not .. personally seeing signs of another manager that will stick to his system come what may even when it’s clear it’s not working .. it’s pretty clear teams have worked our system and players out , hence overloading the midfield and wide areas , they know if we play CBT and Raki that they will not track back which leaves our defenders under pressure . We can see it why can’t Holden this weekend sure Sheff Wed will do the same .
So Holden will do till end of season but not sure he the manager to get us promotion ??
Because the alternative is worse.
We could play the likes of Morgan out wide knowing they’ll track back but that also takes away the goal threat JRS and CBT offer. That would put our defence under even more pressure as teams could push high knowing we can’t run in behind.
There is no system that would keep this squad averaging 2 points a game all season long.
So QPR never even spoke to us about Holden .. can’t believe the hysteria from fans over this .. he done ok , in his favour he got good results but still a few bad ones and indifferent performances, he is playing with someone else’s squad to a point , and his still not playing his fav system … but is he Pep mark two has some of the reaction to him leaving would suggest No he not .. personally seeing signs of another manager that will stick to his system come what may even when it’s clear it’s not working .. it’s pretty clear teams have worked our system and players out , hence overloading the midfield and wide areas , they know if we play CBT and Raki that they will not track back which leaves our defenders under pressure . We can see it why can’t Holden this weekend sure Sheff Wed will do the same .
So Holden will do till end of season but not sure he the manager to get us promotion ??
Because the alternative is worse.
We could play the likes of Morgan out wide knowing they’ll track back but that also takes away the goal threat JRS and CBT offer. That would put our defence under even more pressure as teams could push high knowing we can’t run in behind.
There is no system that would keep this squad averaging 2 points a game all season long.
I agree, I'm fairly sure that if you could have Fergie, Brian Clough, or Guardiola in charge, they are not going to do much better than we are currently seeing. Not because Holden is some sort of wunderkind prodigy but because the squad has a ceiling and we've hit it.
The players are not good enough and the squad is too poor/shallow to realistically be any more than midtable dreck. Holden may or may not get a better tune out of a well sourced, hand picked squad, I don't know. But he's done about as well as anyone could with the current hand he's got.
We need the manager for this summer's rebuild and next season to be in place NOW, so that there's some continuity in terms of planning. The worst option would be to wait until the end of the season and employ someone new in say June, as once again we're playing catch up. I've little expectation of it happening, but we need to be active in the transfer market as soon as the season finishes, and for that we need a a manager in place.
So on that basis, the only option really is to try and keep Holden on a longer deal and back him.
Wouldn't be at all surprised if he did go to QPR if he was offered, but I suspect this is more agent bluster to get him tied down to a longer/better deal. I think he was expecting the Methven deal to go through and take the "stability" from that, but he's been left holding the baby as that deal collapsed and the others he came in with have all left the club. He has done a decent enough job so far, but I feel the QPR job would represent a better opportunity. Ultimately depends on how much he feels there is an opportunity here, with currently little prospect for investment and a squad that needs yet another complete overhaul in the summer to have any chance of progressing.
He's not been the messiah, but he has got a few decent results out of this squad. We should see ourselves end in mid table, which is below par for what we have but that's more down to the poor results from Garner. He speaks well and, honestly, I don't think we could get much better at the moment. I don't feel I can judge him tactically/strategically until he has a squad assembled of his own making, but no manager under TS has really had any time to do that.
We could probably do a lot worse than Dean Holden. It's a sad mantra to live by, but until we have stability in our ownership, "could be worse" is about right. I do hope he stays, but would not be at all surprised if he walks away from the madness.
Although the bounce may have exaggerated his real abilities, Holden seems like the best we've had since Bowyer, and I doubt we could get anyone better to replace him.
Therefore we must do what's necessary to keep him. C'mon Sandgaard, this football lark is easy, isn't it?
Yeah , so easy, he's tried to sell the club after 2 years!
Wouldn't be at all surprised if he did go to QPR if he was offered, but I suspect this is more agent bluster to get him tied down to a longer/better deal.
He’d need his head testing if he didn’t!
If QPR came in for him, and we gave him permission to speak to him (which of course we would for a moderate fee), then he would be going there, absolutely no doubt in my mind.
I am out of step with most on this thread. I believe club should wait to the end of the season before making a decision on whether to offer Dean Holden a long contract. Let's see what the sum of his time in management adds upto. For example I am not sure how tactically aware he is and seems to be caught out by the opposition manager making changes during a game.
We can't have a situation where a manager who is doing a respectable job leaves and we can't keep losing managers at the rate we do. The club needs to start being run properly and stop being a basket case.
Well, I think it will be a blow if he goes now. With Holden at the helm until the end of the season I am pretty confident we won't get dragged into a relegation scrap. Who knows what his leaving would do to morale and motivation. I suppose Anthony Hayes may rise to the challenge. Holden I think has something about him, but then I thought that of Garner until it became predictable and ineffective. Ultimately I don't think it matters a fcuk who our manager is. Unless and until we have an owner with a vision they can back up with ambition and resource I think any manager is constricted and constrained. We have 2 stubborn egotists blocking the progress of the club; one who owns the assets and one who owns the football club. Each sees the own face saving outcome as primary and the wellbeing of the club secondary. I suspect we are destined to repeat the mistakes of their tenure ad infinitum; poor, inadequate or cheap recruitment, hide-bound managers who are eventually sacked, dwindling attendances and slow death of our football club. We may of course get lucky, either with a manager or a minted new owner, but pessimism rules for me at the moment
We could play the likes of Morgan out wide knowing they’ll track back but that also takes away the goal threat JRS and CBT offer. That would put our defence under even more pressure as teams could push high knowing we can’t run in behind.
There is no system that would keep this squad averaging 2 points a game all season long.
Watch the free kicks by Aaron Henry for the under 21s yesterday to see why should be playing before Albie Morgan.
I am out of step with most on this thread. I believe club should wait to the end of the season before making a decision on whether to offer Dean Holden a long contract. Let's see what the sum of his time in management adds upto. For example I am not sure how tactically aware he is and seems to be caught out by the opposition manager making changes during a game.
I agree, but ONLY if we have someone else lined up to take the job when the season ends if we decide not to offer Holden a new contract. As a few posters have mentioned, part of the reason why we are struggling this season is that Garner was brought in too late. Many clubs had already started identifying targets & signing players by the time Garner joined us. Can't have that happening again this summer.
We could play the likes of Morgan out wide knowing they’ll track back but that also takes away the goal threat JRS and CBT offer. That would put our defence under even more pressure as teams could push high knowing we can’t run in behind.
There is no system that would keep this squad averaging 2 points a game all season long.
Watch the free kicks by Aaron Henry for the under 21s yesterday to see why should be playing before Albie Morgan.
He's got great talent at set pieces, but his all round play still needs developing
We have far too many players who are just bang average league one. We’re only ever five or six passes away from someone dropping a bollock. There’s hardly any of them that offer consistency. We make basic defending errors that cost us virtually every game. All of that is what you get with average league one players. Until we have some money to upgrade all over the squad bang average is what we’ll stay. Dean Holden has been able to get bang average players performing to their ability and mid table. Under Garner they were under performing. Id stick with DH because no one is going to turn this current lot into anything better.
For me it's quite simple. No manager will be able to succeed under Sandgaard's control. So it comes down to a question of his character and integrity. And Dean Holden stands head and shoulders above the Sandgaard's and Keohane in that respect. I hope he stays and I hope we soon get an ownership that will afford him the opportunity to succeed.
We're constantly having to judge managers on how they do in their (short) spell with an inherited squad. We're crying out for stability and allow the manager to build a squad that suits/fits how he wants us to play. Changing managers every 6 months will only see us heading in one direction and it's not the upward one.
Sadly I can't see this changing until Mr Ego vacates the building.
Comments
Ironically both Holden and Garner have the same amount of wins this season
Five wins in 10-games for the former, 5-wins in 21-games for the latter.
I think the Bolton | Derby results are ridiculous pedestals to use when saying Holden's honeymoon period is over, especially as many have also felt that the squad differences between us and those two teams are vast enough in the first place.
24 points from 20 games the much sought after Garner
he’s gotten more of a tune out of them but come the end of the season how much different will it be .
he’ll do well to keep them ticking over at 1.6 pg
we have shit footballers I’m not bothered about any of them
another wanky transfer window to look forward to and hype up pony players or maybe things change and we can have genuine players arrive who will give us hope rather than 3rd choice ipswich guff
who knows how good any of these recent managers are wIth the shower of shit squads foisted on them
Yup. Pretty much this.
Given how quickly, Sandgaard/ Jackson/ Garner/ Andy Scott went from new dawn to false dawn probably best to wait a little longer on deciding Holden's moniker.
We've a limited squad with a limited way to play, realistically we have two wingers. And they have to play "inverted". Can't really judge him that well based on what he's working with. he's shown enough on the football side that he's a dependable pragmatic type, and that'll do fine. Trying to rebrand yourself as the league one Arsenal is great when you have the time and resources to do it but, this is league one, where a pool of 10 teams could make top 6 and another 10 bottom 6.
Let's do something crazy and try a bit of stability.
players/squad are just not good enough to compete at the level we need to be and pushing near the top end
he has done well so far i think to help avoid a relegation scrap at the minute anyway
it all boils down to sandgaard and the lack of help/budget he allows any manager to have
We could play the likes of Morgan out wide knowing they’ll track back but that also takes away the goal threat JRS and CBT offer. That would put our defence under even more pressure as teams could push high knowing we can’t run in behind.
There is no system that would keep this squad averaging 2 points a game all season long.
The players are not good enough and the squad is too poor/shallow to realistically be any more than midtable dreck. Holden may or may not get a better tune out of a well sourced, hand picked squad, I don't know. But he's done about as well as anyone could with the current hand he's got.
So on that basis, the only option really is to try and keep Holden on a longer deal and back him.
He's not been the messiah, but he has got a few decent results out of this squad. We should see ourselves end in mid table, which is below par for what we have but that's more down to the poor results from Garner. He speaks well and, honestly, I don't think we could get much better at the moment. I don't feel I can judge him tactically/strategically until he has a squad assembled of his own making, but no manager under TS has really had any time to do that.
We could probably do a lot worse than Dean Holden. It's a sad mantra to live by, but until we have stability in our ownership, "could be worse" is about right. I do hope he stays, but would not be at all surprised if he walks away from the madness.
If QPR came in for him, and we gave him permission to speak to him (which of course we would for a moderate fee), then he would be going there, absolutely no doubt in my mind.
I believe club should wait to the end of the season before making a decision on whether to offer Dean Holden a long contract.
Let's see what the sum of his time in management adds upto.
For example I am not sure how tactically aware he is and seems to be caught out by the opposition manager making changes during a game.
With Holden at the helm until the end of the season I am pretty confident we won't get dragged into a relegation scrap. Who knows what his leaving would do to morale and motivation.
I suppose Anthony Hayes may rise to the challenge.
Holden I think has something about him, but then I thought that of Garner until it became predictable and ineffective.
Ultimately I don't think it matters a fcuk who our manager is.
Unless and until we have an owner with a vision they can back up with ambition and resource I think any manager is constricted and constrained.
We have 2 stubborn egotists blocking the progress of the club; one who owns the assets and one who owns the football club.
Each sees the own face saving outcome as primary and the wellbeing of the club secondary.
I suspect we are destined to repeat the mistakes of their tenure ad infinitum; poor, inadequate or cheap recruitment, hide-bound managers who are eventually sacked, dwindling attendances and slow death of our football club.
We may of course get lucky, either with a manager or a minted new owner, but pessimism rules for me at the moment
Sadly I can't see this changing until Mr Ego vacates the building.