FWIW, Digitalbits, a far bigger crypto/Blockchain/NFT accessibility company, faced up by people like David Beckham and sponsors of Inter Milan and Roma, amongst others, have had their logo removed from Inters shirt and stadium recently due to being unable to make their agreed sponsor payments, mainly due to the price of their shares/cryptocurrency/vegetables plummeting.
FYI @seth plum is a known sea lioner on the issue of crypto. If you’re coming from our sponsor’s community please don’t engage with him. I’ve tried, and it’s utterly pointless.
What is a sea lioner? Known by who? Given the information provided above it is easier for anybody to engage with me than Generous Robots. I suggest you stop with the personals simply because I think cryptocurrency is based on nothing. You can believe in them all you like, however I am allowed to be sceptical whether you wish to act as thread censor or not.
There are NO useful applications for NFTs yet. They are ALL, without fail, a way for cryptobros to cash out. You might make some money in the short term, but as soon as they've managed to get what they can out, you'll lose everything - if you're holding the non-existent cards when that happens, you're fucked. It's no better than penny stock pump & dumps (worse, because regulators haven't caught up it yet - unlike with boiler rooms)
NFTs have some promise in future potential legitimate applications (gig tickets, for instance, as there's a practical application there) - but not as digital pokemon cards - and anyone who can't see the con is being obtuse, in on the scam, or delusional.
Are you suggesting that the club should pull the deal then? The stark reality is that money talks and whether we’re sponsored by a betting company, crypto exchange or NFT peeps, the club simply cannot turn this down. They do have value as digital Pokémon cards if people are prepared to buy them.
They can turn down any deal.
They have done so with betting firms in the recent past.
Whether they should is a different debate.
I respect Leroy's expertise and take on this.
Fair enough. As I said, I don’t know enough about NFT’s but I can’t see how we’re in a position to turn down sponsorship based upon peoples moral compass. And I found the pile on of the NFT fella this morning pretty poor.
It’s unacceptable. Web3 and NFT companies rely heavily on their community. Congratulations to all those scaring away commercial business from the club. It’s to the point I wouldn’t be surprised at some point some one contacts the club to complain about what’s going on here.
OK, as the self appointed CL authority on NFTs can you explain, in simple terms, what the Robot people are actually selling, other than opportunity?
What is their actual product?
NFTs, in their self aren't a con, not all cons are NFT based but their are 100s of NFT based cons.
There are NO useful applications for NFTs yet. They are ALL, without fail, a way for cryptobros to cash out. You might make some money in the short term, but as soon as they've managed to get what they can out, you'll lose everything - if you're holding the non-existent cards when that happens, you're fucked. It's no better than penny stock pump & dumps (worse, because regulators haven't caught up it yet - unlike with boiler rooms)
NFTs have some promise in future potential legitimate applications (gig tickets, for instance, as there's a practical application there) - but not as digital pokemon cards - and anyone who can't see the con is being obtuse, in on the scam, or delusional.
Are you suggesting that the club should pull the deal then? The stark reality is that money talks and whether we’re sponsored by a betting company, crypto exchange or NFT peeps, the club simply cannot turn this down. They do have value as digital Pokémon cards if people are prepared to buy them.
They can turn down any deal.
They have done so with betting firms in the recent past.
Whether they should is a different debate.
I respect Leroy's expertise and take on this.
Fair enough. As I said, I don’t know enough about NFT’s but I can’t see how we’re in a position to turn down sponsorship based upon peoples moral compass. And I found the pile on of the NFT fella this morning pretty poor.
It’s unacceptable. Web3 and NFT companies rely heavily on their community. Congratulations to all those scaring away commercial business from the club. It’s to the point I wouldn’t be surprised at some point some one contacts the club to complain about what’s going on here.
Well, I'm not sure I had 'tears for a cryptobro' on the cards for today - but 2022 has been a wild ride for sure
Any comment @Johnnyb or are you still claiming to just be a holder?
This will be my last post here as I think there have been enough insults and jokes hurled at me today.
I am a holder, nothing more and I have no connection with the Generous Robot team. I only joined here as some concerns and mistruths were pointed out on our Discord chat so I thought I could try and respond, as well as introduce myself as I have never followed a soccer team in the UK before.
People have their views on here. I accept and understand that. I can only tell you that I have been involved in NFTs for four years now and this is what I do for a living. You might think the whole NFT market is a scam and worthless, but this is not true. NFTs have grown exponentially in the last few years and will continue to do so. They will become a bigger and bigger part of soccer in the years to come and this will be something you either have to accept or live with.
Any comment @Johnnyb or are you still claiming to just be a holder?
This will be my last post here as I think there have been enough insults and jokes hurled at me today.
I am a holder, nothing more and I have no connection with the Generous Robot team. I only joined here as some concerns and mistruths were pointed out on our Discord chat so I thought I could try and respond, as well as introduce myself as I have never followed a soccer team in the UK before.
People have their views on here. I accept and understand that. I can only tell you that I have been involved in NFTs for four years now and this is what I do for a living. You might think the whole NFT market is a scam and worthless, but this is not true. NFTs have grown exponentially in the last few years and will continue to do so. They will become a bigger and bigger part of soccer in the years to come and this will be something you either have to accept or live with.
If your only a holder on what authority do you say that we will need to look for a new sponsor next season?
Any comment @Johnnyb or are you still claiming to just be a holder?
This will be my last post here as I think there have been enough insults and jokes hurled at me today.
I am a holder, nothing more and I have no connection with the Generous Robot team. I only joined here as some concerns and mistruths were pointed out on our Discord chat so I thought I could try and respond, as well as introduce myself as I have never followed a soccer team in the UK before.
People have their views on here. I accept and understand that. I can only tell you that I have been involved in NFTs for four years now and this is what I do for a living. You might think the whole NFT market is a scam and worthless, but this is not true. NFTs have grown exponentially in the last few years and will continue to do so. They will become a bigger and bigger part of soccer in the years to come and this will be something you either have to accept or live with.
There are explanations above saying that NFTs will not be entirely worthless in the future. But... This ain't the future. Don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out.
Any comment @Johnnyb or are you still claiming to just be a holder?
This will be my last post here as I think there have been enough insults and jokes hurled at me today.
I am a holder, nothing more and I have no connection with the Generous Robot team. I only joined here as some concerns and mistruths were pointed out on our Discord chat so I thought I could try and respond, as well as introduce myself as I have never followed a soccerfootball team in the UK before.
People have their views on here. I accept and understand that. I can only tell you that I have been involved in NFTs for four years now and this is what I do for a living. You might think the whole NFT market is a scam and worthless, but this is not true. NFTs have grown exponentially in the last few years and will continue to do so. They will become a bigger and bigger part of soccerfootball in the years to come and this will be something you either have to accept or live with.
It’s a shame that you are not knowledgeable enough in your chosen career to answer peoples legitimate questions here. In the mean time I have corrected your English for you at no charge.
I’m not down at all to be honest, it’s like a whole world I have no idea how it works. Crypto, NFTs, my brain seems to have a digital block to it all.
The Solana Blockchain sounds like a 2 star Magaluf hotel filled with on the cheap Northerners
I am exactly the same as you, someone tried to explain it to me and I was lost after 10 seconds. Actually that was Bitcoin, is that different to Crypto? I am absolutely clueless on it all.
Let me explain it to you in a way you’ll understand. It’s all beer, one is a lager and the other is a bitter.
There are NO useful applications for NFTs yet. They are ALL, without fail, a way for cryptobros to cash out. You might make some money in the short term, but as soon as they've managed to get what they can out, you'll lose everything - if you're holding the non-existent cards when that happens, you're fucked. It's no better than penny stock pump & dumps (worse, because regulators haven't caught up it yet - unlike with boiler rooms)
NFTs have some promise in future potential legitimate applications (gig tickets, for instance, as there's a practical application there) - but not as digital pokemon cards - and anyone who can't see the con is being obtuse, in on the scam, or delusional.
Are you suggesting that the club should pull the deal then? The stark reality is that money talks and whether we’re sponsored by a betting company, crypto exchange or NFT peeps, the club simply cannot turn this down.
Do you honestly think any money has been passed with this sponsorship mate? I don’t
There are NO useful applications for NFTs yet. They are ALL, without fail, a way for cryptobros to cash out. You might make some money in the short term, but as soon as they've managed to get what they can out, you'll lose everything - if you're holding the non-existent cards when that happens, you're fucked. It's no better than penny stock pump & dumps (worse, because regulators haven't caught up it yet - unlike with boiler rooms)
NFTs have some promise in future potential legitimate applications (gig tickets, for instance, as there's a practical application there) - but not as digital pokemon cards - and anyone who can't see the con is being obtuse, in on the scam, or delusional.
Are you suggesting that the club should pull the deal then? The stark reality is that money talks and whether we’re sponsored by a betting company, crypto exchange or NFT peeps, the club simply cannot turn this down.
Do you honestly think any money has been passed with this sponsorship mate? I don’t
Be very interested to see what we got from this deal.
Looking at the comments from the guy on here and on Twitter, this company seems to come with a community. It wouldn’t surprise me if the actual cash investment is minimal, with the promise of a community of holders swelling merch, stream and potentially even ticket sales. I wonder if this chimes with Thomas trying to increase revenue.
As mentioned above, I hope we’ve done our due diligence and not been sold on potential only. Could get embarrassing.
There are NO useful applications for NFTs yet. They are ALL, without fail, a way for cryptobros to cash out. You might make some money in the short term, but as soon as they've managed to get what they can out, you'll lose everything - if you're holding the non-existent cards when that happens, you're fucked. It's no better than penny stock pump & dumps (worse, because regulators haven't caught up it yet - unlike with boiler rooms)
NFTs have some promise in future potential legitimate applications (gig tickets, for instance, as there's a practical application there) - but not as digital pokemon cards - and anyone who can't see the con is being obtuse, in on the scam, or delusional.
Are you suggesting that the club should pull the deal then? The stark reality is that money talks and whether we’re sponsored by a betting company, crypto exchange or NFT peeps, the club simply cannot turn this down.
Do you honestly think any money has been passed with this sponsorship mate? I don’t
How would I know mate. My gut instinct tells me that we have. One of the economics of sponsorship is that you get paid for it!
I'm not at all interested in crypto or NFTs, but I am interested in understanding, so... here is my best stab at NFTs (but I am no expert by any means):
- I take a .jpeg photo of some trainers
- I create a NFT from the .jpeg
- Someone else makes a copy of the.jpeg and introduces a tiny/minimal change, so that the file's digital signature is different from mine, but to the human eye the two images are identical.
- She/he now also creates a NFT with their altered version of the image on a different NFT platform.
- How do I now prove that I am the true owner of the trainer's photo?
I guess this is all down to the reputability of the platform that created/holds the NFT. If anyone is going to pay £2m for my NFT, they will buy it from me (via my NFT platform) because I used the most reputable available. A bit like buying that Van Gogh from the National Gallery rather than from (with all due respect) Aladdin's Cave in Lewisham Way.
Hope that makes sense to somebody, and more than happy to be corrected.
When the FSA gives it their backing by being regulated & having security of the £85k FSCS to fall back on if it all goes tits up then I may look at it. Until then I'm out.
I'm not at all interested in crypto or NFTs, but I am interested in understanding, so... here is my best stab at NFTs (but I am no expert by any means):
- I take a .jpeg photo of some trainers
- I create a NFT from the .jpeg
- Someone else makes a copy of the.jpeg and introduces a tiny/minimal change, so that the file's digital signature is different from mine, but to the human eye the two images are identical.
- She/he now also creates a NFT with their altered version of the image on a different NFT platform.
- How do I now prove that I am the true owner of the trainer's photo?
I guess this is all down to the reputability of the platform that created/holds the NFT. If anyone is going to pay £2m for my NFT, they will buy it from me (via my NFT platform) because I used the most reputable available. A bit like buying that Van Gogh from the National Gallery rather than from (with all due respect) Aladdin's Cave in Lewisham Way.
Hope that makes sense to somebody, and more than happy to be corrected.
The blockchain proves legitimacy.
If I buy a physical banksy for 100k, it comes with a COA. If I pay £100 off of ebay for a reproduction, it doesn't.
I'm not at all interested in crypto or NFTs, but I am interested in understanding, so... here is my best stab at NFTs (but I am no expert by any means):
- I take a .jpeg photo of some trainers
- I create a NFT from the .jpeg
- Someone else makes a copy of the.jpeg and introduces a tiny/minimal change, so that the file's digital signature is different from mine, but to the human eye the two images are identical.
- She/he now also creates a NFT with their altered version of the image on a different NFT platform.
- How do I now prove that I am the true owner of the trainer's photo?
I guess this is all down to the reputability of the platform that created/holds the NFT. If anyone is going to pay £2m for my NFT, they will buy it from me (via my NFT platform) because I used the most reputable available. A bit like buying that Van Gogh from the National Gallery rather than from (with all due respect) Aladdin's Cave in Lewisham Way.
Hope that makes sense to somebody, and more than happy to be corrected.
As far as I know, the NFT is not the image itself, it's just a container on the blockchain. In most cases that container will contain a link to an image. So anyone who has the URL, or screenshot the image when you post it, has access to the image, but you have 'the receipt' to show that you have the container for the original.
I also believe in most cases you aren't buying the copyright to the image, so if someone sold a slightly modified version as another NFT you couldn't do anything about it, legally.
In terms of authenticity, I suppose you could get info from the blockchain to prove yours was minted first and therefore 'the original.' But what if you're an artist minting a piece of your own digital art, but someone steals it and mints it before you do? Not sure what would happen, then?
And it's interesting that you mention a slightly modified artwork as it's my understanding that most NFTs of a certain kind are generated from slightly different features, backgrounds and colours (pirate ape with sad face, space ape with cigar etc) So your NFT will be unique, but almost identical to many other NFTs in the same collection.
At the end of the day, whether or not NFT containers have practical application in the future, this whole thing is nothing to do with art.
I'm going to repeat the link to the tweet which @Croydon posted above.
Everybody should read it, especially those on here who profess some knowledge of the NFT/crypto environment, and ideally @JohnnyB if he is still around.
Martin Calladine is a journalist who focuses on the business issues of football at the lower levels, and is one of the inspirations for the way we have produced the Charlton Dossier. As you'll see in the thread, he is not seeking to trash NFTs as a sector per se. His main issue is the ownership of Generous Robots. His findings and questions -including to the club directly - remind me a lot of all the work that has gone into ESI.
There are NO useful applications for NFTs yet. They are ALL, without fail, a way for cryptobros to cash out. You might make some money in the short term, but as soon as they've managed to get what they can out, you'll lose everything - if you're holding the non-existent cards when that happens, you're fucked. It's no better than penny stock pump & dumps (worse, because regulators haven't caught up it yet - unlike with boiler rooms)
NFTs have some promise in future potential legitimate applications (gig tickets, for instance, as there's a practical application there) - but not as digital pokemon cards - and anyone who can't see the con is being obtuse, in on the scam, or delusional.
Are you suggesting that the club should pull the deal then? The stark reality is that money talks and whether we’re sponsored by a betting company, crypto exchange or NFT peeps, the club simply cannot turn this down.
Do you honestly think any money has been passed with this sponsorship mate? I don’t
How would I know mate. My gut instinct tells me that we have. One of the economics of sponsorship is that you get paid for it!
Re my post above and Martin Calladine's issues with Generous Robots.
One of the economics of owning a major football club used to be that you paid more than £1 to buy it. (including any associated debt).
Comments
Make of that what you will
Dodgy as fuck
Any comment @Johnnyb or are you still claiming to just be a holder?
Known by who?
Given the information provided above it is easier for anybody to engage with me than Generous Robots.
I suggest you stop with the personals simply because I think cryptocurrency is based on nothing.
You can believe in them all you like, however I am allowed to be sceptical whether you wish to act as thread censor or not.
What is their actual product?
NFTs, in their self aren't a con, not all cons are NFT based but their are 100s of NFT based cons.
I am a holder, nothing more and I have no connection with the Generous Robot team. I only joined here as some concerns and mistruths were pointed out on our Discord chat so I thought I could try and respond, as well as introduce myself as I have never followed a soccer team in the UK before.
People have their views on here. I accept and understand that. I can only tell you that I have been involved in NFTs for four years now and this is what I do for a living. You might think the whole NFT market is a scam and worthless, but this is not true. NFTs have grown exponentially in the last few years and will continue to do so. They will become a bigger and bigger part of soccer in the years to come and this will be something you either have to accept or live with.
Have you costed that Barca package yet?
I can see the potential future application of the general blockchain, but all this bollocks about digital art is 100000000% a Ponzi scheme.
I would be disappointed if we had a gambling sponsor - but at least that's regulated!
It’s all beer, one is a lager and the other is a bitter.
Looking at the comments from the guy on here and on Twitter, this company seems to come with a community. It wouldn’t surprise me if the actual cash investment is minimal, with the promise of a community of holders swelling merch, stream and potentially even ticket sales. I wonder if this chimes with Thomas trying to increase revenue.
Edit... links in the "Description" section of the above video to the sponsor
Sounds even more like a pyramid scheme.
And is it a DAO? Not from that video or the twitter thread posted earlier it isn't.
And Generous Robots was founded in February 2022.
It's corporate structure is unclear, it's ownership hidden, it's name deceptive (it's not a DAO) and it's all of six months old.
But apart from that......
A whale, is literally someone that holds a lot of specific crypto.
I’d expect many people to have a different literal definition of the word whale…
If I buy a physical banksy for 100k, it comes with a COA. If I pay £100 off of ebay for a reproduction, it doesn't.
The blockchain is a digital form of authenticity
I also believe in most cases you aren't buying the copyright to the image, so if someone sold a slightly modified version as another NFT you couldn't do anything about it, legally.
In terms of authenticity, I suppose you could get info from the blockchain to prove yours was minted first and therefore 'the original.' But what if you're an artist minting a piece of your own digital art, but someone steals it and mints it before you do? Not sure what would happen, then?
And it's interesting that you mention a slightly modified artwork as it's my understanding that most NFTs of a certain kind are generated from slightly different features, backgrounds and colours (pirate ape with sad face, space ape with cigar etc) So your NFT will be unique, but almost identical to many other NFTs in the same collection.
At the end of the day, whether or not NFT containers have practical application in the future, this whole thing is nothing to do with art.
Everybody should read it, especially those on here who profess some knowledge of the NFT/crypto environment, and ideally @JohnnyB if he is still around.
Martin Calladine is a journalist who focuses on the business issues of football at the lower levels, and is one of the inspirations for the way we have produced the Charlton Dossier. As you'll see in the thread, he is not seeking to trash NFTs as a sector per se. His main issue is the ownership of Generous Robots. His findings and questions -including to the club directly - remind me a lot of all the work that has gone into ESI.
One of the economics of owning a major football club used to be that you paid more than £1 to buy it. (including any associated debt).