South-Western Railways bless 'em have just drastically reduced the number of services offering their "Super Off-Peak" fares. As a consequence the cheapest return rail fare I can get from Poole to Charlton is now £90 return for me and my son, with a Railcard. Alternatively we can get a National Express coach Bournemouth to London Victoria plus tube and rail fares about £70 with coach card. Or I can bung my son £40 petrol money and we park free around Charlton Park. All the while I can afford it I still prefer to use the train, but over 20 odd times a year you can see where the savings are
Or you could save £200 - 300 per month by not having a car in the first place!
I don't have a car, I can no longer drive for medical reasons. My son has a car, but it's not for me to presume to "justify" his reasons, he is an adult and no longer lives at home As far as attending games is concerned, I refer to my original post I get it that there is a wider argument to be had and that's what you are implying. Point taken (Edit: Other than to say there are myriad reasons for maintaining a car and if one feels justified in the ongoing expense, then the occasional visit to CAFC may be viewed in isolation - i.e you'll be paying your "£200 to £300" whether you go to football or not)
I would love to be able to use public transport to get to Charlton.
Unfortunately Melton Constable train station closed in 1964 leaving Sheringham as my "local" mainline station - that's 12 miles away and only gets me to Norwich (25 miles away) and London trains from there are bloody expensive.
That leaves me with King's Lynn (30 miles away) for a (cheaper) train to King's Cross and then subsequent connections to Charlton. With the frequency of trains, length of journeys, and trying to build in some extra time to allow for possible/inevitable delays I'd be turning my usual 3-hour car trip into at least 4-hours car-and-train (probably longer), not getting home from a 3pm Saturday kick-off until well after 10pm. Early or late kick-offs will be a no-no and midweek matches impossible.
That leaves my trusty chariot as my only realistic mode of transport which, thankfully, is currently spared under the new ULEZ crap. If I'm unable to park within sensible walking distance of the ground for me and my grandson that could be the end of our Valley-visiting days ... and the little fella has only just started!
I would love to be able to use public transport to get to Charlton.
Unfortunately Melton Constable train station closed in 1964 leaving Sheringham as my "local" mainline station - that's 12 miles away and only gets me to Norwich (25 miles away) and London trains from there are bloody expensive.
That leaves me with King's Lynn (30 miles away) for a (cheaper) train to King's Cross and then subsequent connections to Charlton. With the frequency of trains, length of journeys, and trying to build in some extra time to allow for possible/inevitable delays I'd be turning my usual 3-hour car trip into at least 4-hours car-and-train (probably longer), not getting home from a 3pm Saturday kick-off until well after 10pm. Early or late kick-offs will be a no-no and midweek matches impossible.
That leaves my trusty chariot as my only realistic mode of transport which, thankfully, is currently spared under the new ULEZ crap. If I'm unable to park within sensible walking distance of the ground for me and my grandson that could be the end of our Valley-visiting days ... and the little fella has only just started!
Can't see why you can't cycle from Sheringham mate 😉
I would love to be able to use public transport to get to Charlton.
Unfortunately Melton Constable train station closed in 1964 leaving Sheringham as my "local" mainline station - that's 12 miles away and only gets me to Norwich (25 miles away) and London trains from there are bloody expensive.
That leaves me with King's Lynn (30 miles away) for a (cheaper) train to King's Cross and then subsequent connections to Charlton. With the frequency of trains, length of journeys, and trying to build in some extra time to allow for possible/inevitable delays I'd be turning my usual 3-hour car trip into at least 4-hours car-and-train (probably longer), not getting home from a 3pm Saturday kick-off until well after 10pm. Early or late kick-offs will be a no-no and midweek matches impossible.
That leaves my trusty chariot as my only realistic mode of transport which, thankfully, is currently spared under the new ULEZ crap. If I'm unable to park within sensible walking distance of the ground for me and my grandson that could be the end of our Valley-visiting days ... and the little fella has only just started!
Can't see why you can't cycle from Sheringham mate 😉
I'd be buggered cycling to Sheringham in the first place.
And once I got to Sheringham I'd probably be watching the steam trains on the North Norfolk Railway, getting a portion of chips from Dave's Fish Bar followed by an ice cream from Ellie's ... so I'd never get any further!
I would love to be able to use public transport to get to Charlton.
Unfortunately Melton Constable train station closed in 1964 leaving Sheringham as my "local" mainline station - that's 12 miles away and only gets me to Norwich (25 miles away) and London trains from there are bloody expensive.
That leaves me with King's Lynn (30 miles away) for a (cheaper) train to King's Cross and then subsequent connections to Charlton. With the frequency of trains, length of journeys, and trying to build in some extra time to allow for possible/inevitable delays I'd be turning my usual 3-hour car trip into at least 4-hours car-and-train (probably longer), not getting home from a 3pm Saturday kick-off until well after 10pm. Early or late kick-offs will be a no-no and midweek matches impossible.
That leaves my trusty chariot as my only realistic mode of transport which, thankfully, is currently spared under the new ULEZ crap. If I'm unable to park within sensible walking distance of the ground for me and my grandson that could be the end of our Valley-visiting days ... and the little fella has only just started!
Can't see why you can't cycle from Sheringham mate 😉
Your experience and views will be the same for a lot of people who don’t live anywhere near as far afield as you do. The club need to get onboard with RBG on this to mitigate what could be a serious problem for attendances.
Did the rather harsher Millennium Parking restrictions have an effect on attendances? Or did people just get on with it?
There was articles in the local press as the then supporters club were not happy and took on the council. Evening kick offs were moved back to 8pm as the restrictions stopped at a certain times.
It was during the 1st Division Championship winning year and subsequent years in the PL so no effect on attendances.
The area covered by the new CPZ will effect very few on a match day, and there is no restrictions on lots of the parking around the Barrier/North of the Woolwich Road.
The official view will be that it’s an attempt to drive people out of their cars onto public transport and tick the “ green credentials “ box. The reality is that it will just deter some maybe quite a few from coming at all.
This.
They are trying anything to get people out of their own vehicles and onto a bus or bike. Whether that's parking charges, congestion charges, rephasing the traffic lights so they go green for 7 seconds and red for 3 minutes or the phantom roadworks where a workman is nowhere to be seen. If it makes drivers miserable they may well start to leave the car at home and use an alternative. Doubt it though.
Apart from making the alternatives cheaper and better
I really don’t get even if you a non-driving / anti car fan why you’d pore scorn or add sarcasm to this. Surely we all want our club to thrive and in doing so get as many people as it can through the turnstiles?
Further imposed parking restrictions that will make it impossible to park virtually anywhere walkable from the ground won’t have any positive effect on our club, only the risk of a negative.
The thought of everyone arriving by public transport is a nice one but just not a realistic one. We all know we have a very family based support and probably a higher weighting of elderly supporters at The Valley than most other clubs. Not everyone who is old or has kids with them are comfortable with the station situation post match as it is, and I’m not sure it would be viable at all if it had to deal with a few thousand extra people using it every game. As others have said, getting back to North Greenwich post match is a nightmare. Many people on a matchday don’t just leave their home to go football and then return back again after, many have other pre or post match commitments that makes attending by car essential to them going.
There’s also the other aspect of the erosion of peoples routines and familiarisations, the things that keep them coming back routinely through habit during the not so good times. Could be a pint in the same pub, chips from the same chippy, walk down the same road etc.. the number of these aspects disappearing just seems to be steadily increasing.
I would love to be able to use public transport to get to Charlton.
Unfortunately Melton Constable train station closed in 1964 leaving Sheringham as my "local" mainline station - that's 12 miles away and only gets me to Norwich (25 miles away) and London trains from there are bloody expensive.
That leaves me with King's Lynn (30 miles away) for a (cheaper) train to King's Cross and then subsequent connections to Charlton. With the frequency of trains, length of journeys, and trying to build in some extra time to allow for possible/inevitable delays I'd be turning my usual 3-hour car trip into at least 4-hours car-and-train (probably longer), not getting home from a 3pm Saturday kick-off until well after 10pm. Early or late kick-offs will be a no-no and midweek matches impossible.
That leaves my trusty chariot as my only realistic mode of transport which, thankfully, is currently spared under the new ULEZ crap. If I'm unable to park within sensible walking distance of the ground for me and my grandson that could be the end of our Valley-visiting days ... and the little fella has only just started!
Can't see why you can't cycle from Sheringham mate 😉
The CPZ is being brought in as those roads are being used as car parks for Charlton Station and North Greenwich, not to spite people who think getting the train a few times on a Saturday
This isn't about Charlton Station - that's part of the justification. Parking is not really a problem on non-football Saturdays but including them until 6.30pm will give the Council a revenue bonus and catch home games. Not ok to park on a Saturday, unless you use a pay-to-park space - then it's fine. It is about hitting motorists and opening new lines of revenue. If not, why do owners of second cars have to pay double? Why do people with working vehicles (vans etc) have to pay £428 - they are still only occupying a vehicle space? This is the Council's car-hating elite at work and in conjunction with TfL's disastrous Cycleways. The Silvertown Tunnel is a crazy decision and goes against all of the Mayor and the Council's policies and ethics on climate change and local pollution. However, it gives them the justification to toll both the Silvertown and the Blackwall Tunnels. They will tell us that these tolls will only be in place until they have recovered the cost of the tunnel build but we all know what happens once they are in place - look at Dartford (tunnel and bridge) where the cost was repaid in 2003. They rake in close to £100m a year now. That could have paid for the new Silvertown Tunnel years ago.
Motorists in south-east London will soon live with the worst traffic congestion and pollution in the country (if we don't already) and also be taxed the most for the cheek of having a car - Congestion Charge, Ultra Low Emission Zone charges, Tunnel Tolls and Resident Parking charges and restrictions. All whilst our arterial roads have been restricted to single-file, often idling, queueing traffic to accommodate a tiny number of patronising cyclists (I have two road bikes).
Before anyone gets confused, I understand why we need to address climate change and support great public transport. Make it work really well and make it cheap, then I will consider my car usage seriously. In the meantime it's just another cynical and continuing attack on motorists.
I would love to be able to use public transport to get to Charlton.
Unfortunately Melton Constable train station closed in 1964 leaving Sheringham as my "local" mainline station - that's 12 miles away and only gets me to Norwich (25 miles away) and London trains from there are bloody expensive.
That leaves me with King's Lynn (30 miles away) for a (cheaper) train to King's Cross and then subsequent connections to Charlton. With the frequency of trains, length of journeys, and trying to build in some extra time to allow for possible/inevitable delays I'd be turning my usual 3-hour car trip into at least 4-hours car-and-train (probably longer), not getting home from a 3pm Saturday kick-off until well after 10pm. Early or late kick-offs will be a no-no and midweek matches impossible.
That leaves my trusty chariot as my only realistic mode of transport which, thankfully, is currently spared under the new ULEZ crap. If I'm unable to park within sensible walking distance of the ground for me and my grandson that could be the end of our Valley-visiting days ... and the little fella has only just started!
Can't see why you can't cycle from Sheringham mate 😉
Your experience and views will be the same for a lot of people who don’t live anywhere near as far afield as you do. The club need to get onboard with RBG on this to mitigate what could be a serious problem for attendances.
The official view will be that it’s an attempt to drive people out of their cars onto public transport and tick the “ green credentials “ box. The reality is that it will just deter some maybe quite a few from coming at all.
This.
They are trying anything to get people out of their own vehicles and onto a bus or bike. Whether that's parking charges, congestion charges, rephasing the traffic lights so they go green for 7 seconds and red for 3 minutes or the phantom roadworks where a workman is nowhere to be seen. If it makes drivers miserable they may well start to leave the car at home and use an alternative. Doubt it though.
Apart from making the alternatives cheaper and better
A couple of years ago I dropped off a family in Kilburn to their car who had travelled to London to spend the day in town and go to winter wonderland etc. I assumed they were mad driving to London at xmas time and asked them why they drove instead of getting the train. The dad said they would have had to of paid 180 odd quid on the train. I then realised they weren't so mad and made the correct decision.
The CPZ is being brought in as those roads are being used as car parks for Charlton Station and North Greenwich, not to spite people who think getting the train a few times on a Saturday
This isn't about Charlton Station - that's part of the justification. Parking is not really a problem on non-football Saturdays but including them until 6.30pm will give the Council a revenue bonus and catch home games. Not ok to park on a Saturday, unless you use a pay-to-park space - then it's fine. It is about hitting motorists and opening new lines of revenue. If not, why do owners of second cars have to pay double? Why do people with working vehicles (vans etc) have to pay £428 - they are still only occupying a vehicle space? This is the Council's car-hating elite at work and in conjunction with TfL's disastrous Cycleways. The Silvertown Tunnel is a crazy decision and goes against all of the Mayor and the Council's policies and ethics on climate change and local pollution. However, it gives them the justification to toll both the Silvertown and the Blackwall Tunnels. They will tell us that these tolls will only be in place until they have recovered the cost of the tunnel build but we all know what happens once they are in place - look at Dartford (tunnel and bridge) where the cost was repaid in 2003. They rake in close to £100m a year now. That could have paid for the new Silvertown Tunnel years ago.
Motorists in south-east London will soon live with the worst traffic congestion and pollution in the country (if we don't already) and also be taxed the most for the cheek of having a car - Congestion Charge, Ultra Low Emission Zone charges, Tunnel Tolls and Resident Parking charges and restrictions. All whilst our arterial roads have been restricted to single-file, often idling, queueing traffic to accommodate a tiny number of patronising cyclists (I have two road bikes).
Before anyone gets confused, I understand why we need to address climate change and support great public transport. Make it work really well and make it cheap, then I will consider my car usage seriously. In the meantime it's just another cynical and continuing attack on motorists.
Talking to my mum, who lives at the eastern edge of what could be the extended zone, she talks a lot about people who drive to the area, park in the road, and jump on a 486 to North Greenwich or walk down to Charlton Station, likewise for events at the O2, and less so for Charlton matches.
We're only at the consultation stage, I'm going to take a guess that the zone will extend a bit, but not massively to the east, and probably mainly to the west, where residents have been on the war path about this for 3 years
I really don’t get even if you a non-driving / anti car fan why you’d pore scorn or add sarcasm to this. Surely we all want our club to thrive and in doing so get as many people as it can through the turnstiles?
Further imposed parking restrictions that will make it impossible to park virtually anywhere walkable from the ground won’t have any positive effect on our club, only the risk of a negative.
The thought of everyone arriving by public transport is a nice one but just not a realistic one. We all know we have a very family based support and probably a higher weighting of elderly supporters at The Valley than most other clubs. Not everyone who is old or has kids with them are comfortable with the station situation post match as it is, and I’m not sure it would be viable at all if it had to deal with a few thousand extra people using it every game. As others have said, getting back to North Greenwich post match is a nightmare. Many people on a matchday don’t just leave their home to go football and then return back again after, many have other pre or post match commitments that makes attending by car essential to them going.
There’s also the other aspect of the erosion of peoples routines and familiarisations, the things that keep them coming back routinely through habit during the not so good times. Could be a pint in the same pub, chips from the same chippy, walk down the same road etc.. the number of these aspects disappearing just seems to be steadily increasing.
Exactly this, the only way to rebuild this club is getting more people through the turnstiles. We need to look at making it really attractive as possible to as many local people as possible through sensible pricing/offering.
At presant we have too many of our own supporters base not prepared/able to come to The Valley on a consistent enough basis. We have to look at alternative ways to increase the supporter base
The CPZ is being brought in as those roads are being used as car parks for Charlton Station and North Greenwich, not to spite people who think getting the train a few times on a Saturday
This isn't about Charlton Station - that's part of the justification. Parking is not really a problem on non-football Saturdays but including them until 6.30pm will give the Council a revenue bonus and catch home games. Not ok to park on a Saturday, unless you use a pay-to-park space - then it's fine. It is about hitting motorists and opening new lines of revenue. If not, why do owners of second cars have to pay double? Why do people with working vehicles (vans etc) have to pay £428 - they are still only occupying a vehicle space? This is the Council's car-hating elite at work and in conjunction with TfL's disastrous Cycleways. The Silvertown Tunnel is a crazy decision and goes against all of the Mayor and the Council's policies and ethics on climate change and local pollution. However, it gives them the justification to toll both the Silvertown and the Blackwall Tunnels. They will tell us that these tolls will only be in place until they have recovered the cost of the tunnel build but we all know what happens once they are in place - look at Dartford (tunnel and bridge) where the cost was repaid in 2003. They rake in close to £100m a year now. That could have paid for the new Silvertown Tunnel years ago.
Motorists in south-east London will soon live with the worst traffic congestion and pollution in the country (if we don't already) and also be taxed the most for the cheek of having a car - Congestion Charge, Ultra Low Emission Zone charges, Tunnel Tolls and Resident Parking charges and restrictions. All whilst our arterial roads have been restricted to single-file, often idling, queueing traffic to accommodate a tiny number of patronising cyclists (I have two road bikes).
Before anyone gets confused, I understand why we need to address climate change and support great public transport. Make it work really well and make it cheap, then I will consider my car usage seriously. In the meantime it's just another cynical and continuing attack on motorists.
I don’t see how the cycleways are disastrous? It’s opened up a lot of the local area to me where otherwise I’d have felt unsafe cycling.
I used to drive to the valley but since the cycleway along trafalgar road opened I’m now cycling. Same goes for some of my journeys to West Greenwich and Blackheath.
I get that it’s challenging to use public transport for those coming from Kent/Bexley but for those living closer to the valley around Greenwich, driving is completely unnecessary.
The club or the Supporters trust would be advised to contact Dan Thorpe, the leader of Greenwich Council and local MP, Matt Pennycook to make their views known and what effect it could have on people attending the Valley.
Both are on twitter if anyone else wants to contact them
I really don’t get even if you a non-driving / anti car fan why you’d pore scorn or add sarcasm to this. Surely we all want our club to thrive and in doing so get as many people as it can through the turnstiles?
Further imposed parking restrictions that will make it impossible to park virtually anywhere walkable from the ground won’t have any positive effect on our club, only the risk of a negative.
The thought of everyone arriving by public transport is a nice one but just not a realistic one. We all know we have a very family based support and probably a higher weighting of elderly supporters at The Valley than most other clubs. Not everyone who is old or has kids with them are comfortable with the station situation post match as it is, and I’m not sure it would be viable at all if it had to deal with a few thousand extra people using it every game. As others have said, getting back to North Greenwich post match is a nightmare. Many people on a matchday don’t just leave their home to go football and then return back again after, many have other pre or post match commitments that makes attending by car essential to them going.
There’s also the other aspect of the erosion of peoples routines and familiarisations, the things that keep them coming back routinely through habit during the not so good times. Could be a pint in the same pub, chips from the same chippy, walk down the same road etc.. the number of these aspects disappearing just seems to be steadily increasing.
Exactly this, the only way to rebuild this club is getting more people through the turnstiles. We need to look at making it really attractive as possible to as many local people as possible through sensible pricing/offering.
At presant we have too many of our own supporters base not prepared/able to come to The Valley on a consistent enough basis. We have to look at alternative ways to increase the supporter base
So should the club look at scrapping the £36 per match parking charge at the valley and offer those circa 250 spaces to those unable to attend using public transport rather than those that can afford it?
I really don’t get even if you a non-driving / anti car fan why you’d pore scorn or add sarcasm to this. Surely we all want our club to thrive and in doing so get as many people as it can through the turnstiles?
Further imposed parking restrictions that will make it impossible to park virtually anywhere walkable from the ground won’t have any positive effect on our club, only the risk of a negative.
The thought of everyone arriving by public transport is a nice one but just not a realistic one. We all know we have a very family based support and probably a higher weighting of elderly supporters at The Valley than most other clubs. Not everyone who is old or has kids with them are comfortable with the station situation post match as it is, and I’m not sure it would be viable at all if it had to deal with a few thousand extra people using it every game. As others have said, getting back to North Greenwich post match is a nightmare. Many people on a matchday don’t just leave their home to go football and then return back again after, many have other pre or post match commitments that makes attending by car essential to them going.
There’s also the other aspect of the erosion of peoples routines and familiarisations, the things that keep them coming back routinely through habit during the not so good times. Could be a pint in the same pub, chips from the same chippy, walk down the same road etc.. the number of these aspects disappearing just seems to be steadily increasing.
Exactly this, the only way to rebuild this club is getting more people through the turnstiles. We need to look at making it really attractive as possible to as many local people as possible through sensible pricing/offering.
At presant we have too many of our own supporters base not prepared/able to come to The Valley on a consistent enough basis. We have to look at alternative ways to increase the supporter base
So should the club look at scrapping the £36 per match parking charge at the valley and offer those circa 250 spaces to those unable to attend using public transport rather than those that can afford it?
I would rather they looked at local schools and see if they can use the playgrounds as car parks as alternative and charge a much lower price than the £36.
The CPZ is being brought in as those roads are being used as car parks for Charlton Station and North Greenwich, not to spite people who think getting the train a few times on a Saturday
This isn't about Charlton Station - that's part of the justification. Parking is not really a problem on non-football Saturdays but including them until 6.30pm will give the Council a revenue bonus and catch home games. Not ok to park on a Saturday, unless you use a pay-to-park space - then it's fine. It is about hitting motorists and opening new lines of revenue. If not, why do owners of second cars have to pay double? Why do people with working vehicles (vans etc) have to pay £428 - they are still only occupying a vehicle space? This is the Council's car-hating elite at work and in conjunction with TfL's disastrous Cycleways. The Silvertown Tunnel is a crazy decision and goes against all of the Mayor and the Council's policies and ethics on climate change and local pollution. However, it gives them the justification to toll both the Silvertown and the Blackwall Tunnels. They will tell us that these tolls will only be in place until they have recovered the cost of the tunnel build but we all know what happens once they are in place - look at Dartford (tunnel and bridge) where the cost was repaid in 2003. They rake in close to £100m a year now. That could have paid for the new Silvertown Tunnel years ago.
Motorists in south-east London will soon live with the worst traffic congestion and pollution in the country (if we don't already) and also be taxed the most for the cheek of having a car - Congestion Charge, Ultra Low Emission Zone charges, Tunnel Tolls and Resident Parking charges and restrictions. All whilst our arterial roads have been restricted to single-file, often idling, queueing traffic to accommodate a tiny number of patronising cyclists (I have two road bikes).
Before anyone gets confused, I understand why we need to address climate change and support great public transport. Make it work really well and make it cheap, then I will consider my car usage seriously. In the meantime it's just another cynical and continuing attack on motorists.
Talking to my mum, who lives at the eastern edge of what could be the extended zone, she talks a lot about people who drive to the area, park in the road, and jump on a 486 to North Greenwich or walk down to Charlton Station, likewise for events at the O2, and less so for Charlton matches.
We're only at the consultation stage, I'm going to take a guess that the zone will extend a bit, but not massively to the east, and probably mainly to the west, where residents have been on the war path about this for 3 years
Hope you're right Rothko. Casual parking on Saturdays for the train really isn't a big problem. Lots of residents are out using their cars and those parking tend to be gone after two or three hours. Monday to Friday is obviously worse but it's not a massive issue. People dropping and collecting kids from the Pound Park Nursery is much more of a pain.
The CPZ is being brought in as those roads are being used as car parks for Charlton Station and North Greenwich, not to spite people who think getting the train a few times on a Saturday
This isn't about Charlton Station - that's part of the justification. Parking is not really a problem on non-football Saturdays but including them until 6.30pm will give the Council a revenue bonus and catch home games. Not ok to park on a Saturday, unless you use a pay-to-park space - then it's fine. It is about hitting motorists and opening new lines of revenue. If not, why do owners of second cars have to pay double? Why do people with working vehicles (vans etc) have to pay £428 - they are still only occupying a vehicle space? This is the Council's car-hating elite at work and in conjunction with TfL's disastrous Cycleways. The Silvertown Tunnel is a crazy decision and goes against all of the Mayor and the Council's policies and ethics on climate change and local pollution. However, it gives them the justification to toll both the Silvertown and the Blackwall Tunnels. They will tell us that these tolls will only be in place until they have recovered the cost of the tunnel build but we all know what happens once they are in place - look at Dartford (tunnel and bridge) where the cost was repaid in 2003. They rake in close to £100m a year now. That could have paid for the new Silvertown Tunnel years ago.
Motorists in south-east London will soon live with the worst traffic congestion and pollution in the country (if we don't already) and also be taxed the most for the cheek of having a car - Congestion Charge, Ultra Low Emission Zone charges, Tunnel Tolls and Resident Parking charges and restrictions. All whilst our arterial roads have been restricted to single-file, often idling, queueing traffic to accommodate a tiny number of patronising cyclists (I have two road bikes).
Before anyone gets confused, I understand why we need to address climate change and support great public transport. Make it work really well and make it cheap, then I will consider my car usage seriously. In the meantime it's just another cynical and continuing attack on motorists.
I don’t see how the cycleways are disastrous? It’s opened up a lot of the local area to me where otherwise I’d have felt unsafe cycling.
I used to drive to the valley but since the cycleway along trafalgar road opened I’m now cycling. Same goes for some of my journeys to West Greenwich and Blackheath.
I get that it’s challenging to use public transport for those coming from Kent/Bexley but for those living closer to the valley around Greenwich, driving is completely unnecessary.
The CPZ is being brought in as those roads are being used as car parks for Charlton Station and North Greenwich, not to spite people who think getting the train a few times on a Saturday
This isn't about Charlton Station - that's part of the justification. Parking is not really a problem on non-football Saturdays but including them until 6.30pm will give the Council a revenue bonus and catch home games. Not ok to park on a Saturday, unless you use a pay-to-park space - then it's fine. It is about hitting motorists and opening new lines of revenue. If not, why do owners of second cars have to pay double? Why do people with working vehicles (vans etc) have to pay £428 - they are still only occupying a vehicle space? This is the Council's car-hating elite at work and in conjunction with TfL's disastrous Cycleways. The Silvertown Tunnel is a crazy decision and goes against all of the Mayor and the Council's policies and ethics on climate change and local pollution. However, it gives them the justification to toll both the Silvertown and the Blackwall Tunnels. They will tell us that these tolls will only be in place until they have recovered the cost of the tunnel build but we all know what happens once they are in place - look at Dartford (tunnel and bridge) where the cost was repaid in 2003. They rake in close to £100m a year now. That could have paid for the new Silvertown Tunnel years ago.
Motorists in south-east London will soon live with the worst traffic congestion and pollution in the country (if we don't already) and also be taxed the most for the cheek of having a car - Congestion Charge, Ultra Low Emission Zone charges, Tunnel Tolls and Resident Parking charges and restrictions. All whilst our arterial roads have been restricted to single-file, often idling, queueing traffic to accommodate a tiny number of patronising cyclists (I have two road bikes).
Before anyone gets confused, I understand why we need to address climate change and support great public transport. Make it work really well and make it cheap, then I will consider my car usage seriously. In the meantime it's just another cynical and continuing attack on motorists.
I don’t see how the cycleways are disastrous? It’s opened up a lot of the local area to me where otherwise I’d have felt unsafe cycling.
I used to drive to the valley but since the cycleway along trafalgar road opened I’m now cycling. Same goes for some of my journeys to West Greenwich and Blackheath.
I get that it’s challenging to use public transport for those coming from Kent/Bexley but for those living closer to the valley around Greenwich, driving is completely unnecessary.
This is why....
What are you showing in that picture? Some traffic and then no cyclists?
Cyclists have just as might right to use the road as anyone else, and I am sure that a lot of those people in those cars contributing to the traffic could cycle. If we had more a cycling culture here in the UK instead of driving, closer to say Dutch or Belgium, it would benefit society massively. Has to start somewhere....
The CPZ is being brought in as those roads are being used as car parks for Charlton Station and North Greenwich, not to spite people who think getting the train a few times on a Saturday
This isn't about Charlton Station - that's part of the justification. Parking is not really a problem on non-football Saturdays but including them until 6.30pm will give the Council a revenue bonus and catch home games. Not ok to park on a Saturday, unless you use a pay-to-park space - then it's fine. It is about hitting motorists and opening new lines of revenue. If not, why do owners of second cars have to pay double? Why do people with working vehicles (vans etc) have to pay £428 - they are still only occupying a vehicle space? This is the Council's car-hating elite at work and in conjunction with TfL's disastrous Cycleways. The Silvertown Tunnel is a crazy decision and goes against all of the Mayor and the Council's policies and ethics on climate change and local pollution. However, it gives them the justification to toll both the Silvertown and the Blackwall Tunnels. They will tell us that these tolls will only be in place until they have recovered the cost of the tunnel build but we all know what happens once they are in place - look at Dartford (tunnel and bridge) where the cost was repaid in 2003. They rake in close to £100m a year now. That could have paid for the new Silvertown Tunnel years ago.
Motorists in south-east London will soon live with the worst traffic congestion and pollution in the country (if we don't already) and also be taxed the most for the cheek of having a car - Congestion Charge, Ultra Low Emission Zone charges, Tunnel Tolls and Resident Parking charges and restrictions. All whilst our arterial roads have been restricted to single-file, often idling, queueing traffic to accommodate a tiny number of patronising cyclists (I have two road bikes).
Before anyone gets confused, I understand why we need to address climate change and support great public transport. Make it work really well and make it cheap, then I will consider my car usage seriously. In the meantime it's just another cynical and continuing attack on motorists.
Years ago I had a chance conversation with a guy responsible for taking Plumstead Road down to one lane, throttling an artery from Erith to the Blackwall tunnel. Literally a week or two before it came into being. He justified it with the same tired 'people should use buses' argument, and made a point about reducing pollution. I put it to him that by throttling that road he would create massive jams all through Plumstead and increase pollution, not reduce it, as there was no longer any flow. He dismissed me out of hand, but he did have the grace to admit the council was anti motorist.
As for the scheme, it was suspended less than two hours after its introduction due to gridlock affecting most of Plumstead, which ironically stopped the buses getting to their lane. The suspension meant what was a two lane road plus a bus lane was left with no bus lane until they reconfigured the road yet again.
Back to Charlton, my situation is peculiar to me - just as others' are to them - but I live in a village outside of Ashford. I can't survive without a car. Buses run hourly at peak, take an age to get the 7 miles into Ashford (ten minute car ride) and don't run after 5pm at all. Less frequent at weekends. No issue driving to the station, but trains cost more than the ticket price, and generally land the other side of London. I believe the VE may go from Ashford, but as I often stay in Charlton after the game or catch up with my mum at Dartford, neither are solutions for me.
Parking is much much more challenging now than it was during the Prem days, and attendances are half what they were then. I got lucky Saturday as I was late and a space appeared in Charlton Lane, but the journey time, work, childcare, etc doesn't always make it easy to leave early and secure a space.
Genuinely, if parking becomes impossible I can't see how I could go to games - not sure i can justify swallowing the costs of parking at the Valley itself.
The club should be taking this up with the Council, not the Trust, in my view.
The CPZ is being brought in as those roads are being used as car parks for Charlton Station and North Greenwich, not to spite people who think getting the train a few times on a Saturday
This isn't about Charlton Station - that's part of the justification. Parking is not really a problem on non-football Saturdays but including them until 6.30pm will give the Council a revenue bonus and catch home games. Not ok to park on a Saturday, unless you use a pay-to-park space - then it's fine. It is about hitting motorists and opening new lines of revenue. If not, why do owners of second cars have to pay double? Why do people with working vehicles (vans etc) have to pay £428 - they are still only occupying a vehicle space? This is the Council's car-hating elite at work and in conjunction with TfL's disastrous Cycleways. The Silvertown Tunnel is a crazy decision and goes against all of the Mayor and the Council's policies and ethics on climate change and local pollution. However, it gives them the justification to toll both the Silvertown and the Blackwall Tunnels. They will tell us that these tolls will only be in place until they have recovered the cost of the tunnel build but we all know what happens once they are in place - look at Dartford (tunnel and bridge) where the cost was repaid in 2003. They rake in close to £100m a year now. That could have paid for the new Silvertown Tunnel years ago.
Motorists in south-east London will soon live with the worst traffic congestion and pollution in the country (if we don't already) and also be taxed the most for the cheek of having a car - Congestion Charge, Ultra Low Emission Zone charges, Tunnel Tolls and Resident Parking charges and restrictions. All whilst our arterial roads have been restricted to single-file, often idling, queueing traffic to accommodate a tiny number of patronising cyclists (I have two road bikes).
Before anyone gets confused, I understand why we need to address climate change and support great public transport. Make it work really well and make it cheap, then I will consider my car usage seriously. In the meantime it's just another cynical and continuing attack on motorists.
I don’t see how the cycleways are disastrous? It’s opened up a lot of the local area to me where otherwise I’d have felt unsafe cycling.
I used to drive to the valley but since the cycleway along trafalgar road opened I’m now cycling. Same goes for some of my journeys to West Greenwich and Blackheath.
I get that it’s challenging to use public transport for those coming from Kent/Bexley but for those living closer to the valley around Greenwich, driving is completely unnecessary.
This is why....
Yeah that’s a perfect example of what’s great about the cycle lanes. I wouldn’t fancy cycling along there without the segregation but now I have a speedy, safe way to get to Charlton.
The CPZ is being brought in as those roads are being used as car parks for Charlton Station and North Greenwich, not to spite people who think getting the train a few times on a Saturday
This isn't about Charlton Station - that's part of the justification. Parking is not really a problem on non-football Saturdays but including them until 6.30pm will give the Council a revenue bonus and catch home games. Not ok to park on a Saturday, unless you use a pay-to-park space - then it's fine. It is about hitting motorists and opening new lines of revenue. If not, why do owners of second cars have to pay double? Why do people with working vehicles (vans etc) have to pay £428 - they are still only occupying a vehicle space? This is the Council's car-hating elite at work and in conjunction with TfL's disastrous Cycleways. The Silvertown Tunnel is a crazy decision and goes against all of the Mayor and the Council's policies and ethics on climate change and local pollution. However, it gives them the justification to toll both the Silvertown and the Blackwall Tunnels. They will tell us that these tolls will only be in place until they have recovered the cost of the tunnel build but we all know what happens once they are in place - look at Dartford (tunnel and bridge) where the cost was repaid in 2003. They rake in close to £100m a year now. That could have paid for the new Silvertown Tunnel years ago.
Motorists in south-east London will soon live with the worst traffic congestion and pollution in the country (if we don't already) and also be taxed the most for the cheek of having a car - Congestion Charge, Ultra Low Emission Zone charges, Tunnel Tolls and Resident Parking charges and restrictions. All whilst our arterial roads have been restricted to single-file, often idling, queueing traffic to accommodate a tiny number of patronising cyclists (I have two road bikes).
Before anyone gets confused, I understand why we need to address climate change and support great public transport. Make it work really well and make it cheap, then I will consider my car usage seriously. In the meantime it's just another cynical and continuing attack on motorists.
I don’t see how the cycleways are disastrous? It’s opened up a lot of the local area to me where otherwise I’d have felt unsafe cycling.
I used to drive to the valley but since the cycleway along trafalgar road opened I’m now cycling. Same goes for some of my journeys to West Greenwich and Blackheath.
I get that it’s challenging to use public transport for those coming from Kent/Bexley but for those living closer to the valley around Greenwich, driving is completely unnecessary.
This is why....
Yeah that’s a perfect example of what’s great about the cycle lanes. I wouldn’t fancy cycling along there without the segregation but now I have a speedy, safe way to get to Charlton.
You must be fucking knackered cycling all the way from Leeds.
Can someone tell me when this is supposed to be happening? I travel down from Leicestershire for the games and park on the east side of the The Valley opposite Marion Park, where my old man use to park in the 60/70's. Coming down by train would involve 4 trains (potentially 5) and would take an eternity, let alone getting back again. I guess if this is coming in this season, it'll be the last ST I'll buy as will maybe just come down for 1 or 2 games a season. How fucking ridiculous!! Thanks for any help with this!
Comments
My son has a car, but it's not for me to presume to "justify" his reasons, he is an adult and no longer lives at home
As far as attending games is concerned, I refer to my original post
I get it that there is a wider argument to be had and that's what you are implying. Point taken
(Edit: Other than to say there are myriad reasons for maintaining a car and if one feels justified in the ongoing expense, then the occasional visit to CAFC may be viewed in isolation - i.e you'll be paying your "£200 to £300" whether you go to football or not)
Unfortunately Melton Constable train station closed in 1964 leaving Sheringham as my "local" mainline station - that's 12 miles away and only gets me to Norwich (25 miles away) and London trains from there are bloody expensive.
That leaves me with King's Lynn (30 miles away) for a (cheaper) train to King's Cross and then subsequent connections to Charlton. With the frequency of trains, length of journeys, and trying to build in some extra time to allow for possible/inevitable delays I'd be turning my usual 3-hour car trip into at least 4-hours car-and-train (probably longer), not getting home from a 3pm Saturday kick-off until well after 10pm. Early or late kick-offs will be a no-no and midweek matches impossible.
That leaves my trusty chariot as my only realistic mode of transport which, thankfully, is currently spared under the new ULEZ crap. If I'm unable to park within sensible walking distance of the ground for me and my grandson that could be the end of our Valley-visiting days ... and the little fella has only just started!
And once I got to Sheringham I'd probably be watching the steam trains on the North Norfolk Railway, getting a portion of chips from Dave's Fish Bar followed by an ice cream from Ellie's ... so I'd never get any further!
It was during the 1st Division Championship winning year and subsequent years in the PL so no effect on attendances.
Apart from making the alternatives cheaper and better
Further imposed parking restrictions that will make it impossible to park virtually anywhere walkable from the ground won’t have any positive effect on our club, only the risk of a negative.
Motorists in south-east London will soon live with the worst traffic congestion and pollution in the country (if we don't already) and also be taxed the most for the cheek of having a car - Congestion Charge, Ultra Low Emission Zone charges, Tunnel Tolls and Resident Parking charges and restrictions. All whilst our arterial roads have been restricted to single-file, often idling, queueing traffic to accommodate a tiny number of patronising cyclists (I have two road bikes).
Before anyone gets confused, I understand why we need to address climate change and support great public transport. Make it work really well and make it cheap, then I will consider my car usage seriously. In the meantime it's just another cynical and continuing attack on motorists.
We're only at the consultation stage, I'm going to take a guess that the zone will extend a bit, but not massively to the east, and probably mainly to the west, where residents have been on the war path about this for 3 years
At presant we have too many of our own supporters base not prepared/able to come to The Valley on a consistent enough basis. We have to look at alternative ways to increase the supporter base
Both are on twitter if anyone else wants to contact them
@DanLThorpe
@mtpennycook
Cyclists have just as might right to use the road as anyone else, and I am sure that a lot of those people in those cars contributing to the traffic could cycle. If we had more a cycling culture here in the UK instead of driving, closer to say Dutch or Belgium, it would benefit society massively. Has to start somewhere....
As for the scheme, it was suspended less than two hours after its introduction due to gridlock affecting most of Plumstead, which ironically stopped the buses getting to their lane. The suspension meant what was a two lane road plus a bus lane was left with no bus lane until they reconfigured the road yet again.
Back to Charlton, my situation is peculiar to me - just as others' are to them - but I live in a village outside of Ashford. I can't survive without a car. Buses run hourly at peak, take an age to get the 7 miles into Ashford (ten minute car ride) and don't run after 5pm at all. Less frequent at weekends. No issue driving to the station, but trains cost more than the ticket price, and generally land the other side of London. I believe the VE may go from Ashford, but as I often stay in Charlton after the game or catch up with my mum at Dartford, neither are solutions for me.
Parking is much much more challenging now than it was during the Prem days, and attendances are half what they were then. I got lucky Saturday as I was late and a space appeared in Charlton Lane, but the journey time, work, childcare, etc doesn't always make it easy to leave early and secure a space.
Genuinely, if parking becomes impossible I can't see how I could go to games - not sure i can justify swallowing the costs of parking at the Valley itself.
The club should be taking this up with the Council, not the Trust, in my view.
Coming down by train would involve 4 trains (potentially 5) and would take an eternity, let alone getting back again. I guess if this is coming in this season, it'll be the last ST I'll buy as will maybe just come down for 1 or 2 games a season. How fucking ridiculous!!
Thanks for any help with this!