Glitches in form and poor runs happen, but at some point losing becomes the norm and sides forget how to win. If we don't get six points from the next three games - and hard to see us managing anything at Sunderland - they we are likely to go into November in the bottom four and the unthinkable of a relegation battle becomes a reality
I think you’d have to be a slightly insane, happy clappy optimist to think that it’s not at least a possibility. There doesn’t seem to any chance of putting a positive spin on our season so far, it’s been absolutely dire and the reality is there doesn’t appear to be any change on the horizon. Unfit, unmotivated players who seem to be struck with fear every time they get the ball. Tactics - what tactics? I’d bite your hand off if anyone could guarantee a mid-table finish at this precise moment in time. It’s just so depressing.
On current form we are probably the worst team in league one. Adkins has lost the plot and the longer he remains in charge the greater our chance of relegation. Problem is the whole management system at Charlton needs to be changed. Replacing Adkins and leaving the likes of Roddy, Gallen Etc in position changes very little.
Agreed..if Adkins goes the whole lot goes Euell JJ everyone. When a manager comes he should bring in his own staff who he trusts and they know how each other works and the systems that they play. It is the most basic thing in management, in the past back room staff knew if the management got the boot they all went. They are to blame as much as the manager. Wouldn’t be surprised if Roddy is whispering in TS ear to say “keep with him. Things will change”
Form says every chance and if the players’ heads completely go, we could be royally fcuked despite the ‘alleged’ talent in the squad.
It really is time to act to avoid the unthinkable. If blind arrogance gets in the way, we deserve what is coming to us (not fans, but club (revenues, support etc).
Based on current form, then yes, because we are in the relegation zone, and have played a quarter of the season (which is definitely not "too soon" to judge a team and the season it is destined to have) and we can't blame it on a team decimated by injuries or having to play a bunch of youngsters, like we did in previous seasons.
In fact, the situation we find ourselves in, IMO, is worse than under RD in some ways (hear me out) because we have a "decent" owner with money, a full pre season to prepare, a settled coaching and recruiting staff group, and an English manager with plenty of experience and success in his career. The fact that we find ourselves in this situation despite all the above, is absolutely unacceptable and something drastic needs to change
Totally agree with your 2nd paragraph & said so months ago. If you were an outsider looking in, with no prior knowledge of last 5 years, you'd be wondering what all the fuss was about regarding the saviour of our club & asking those around you "but you were in the Championship 2 years ago" and wondering why a successful businessman can't seem to see the current problems & deal with them before it's too late. Also why a successful businessman would spend c£10m on buying the club & financing it so far without wanting to protect his "investment" because surely goodness to god Sandgaard wont get much back if he was bail out in a few years and we are stuck on League 2.
The bit that I can’t keep but pull my hair out in utter frustration is coming out again in this thread. Although the numbers are dwindling by the week.
”Thomas is blameless in this” “Adkins out, Roddy diabolical, but don’t really hold Thomas accountable. He has been let down”. ”We finally have a great owner”
You can’t pin all the blame on one doorstep at all, but it is totally illogical to suggest the set up and management of the club is wrong - and then suggest the guy who ultimately is responsible for hiring them all shouldn’t be blamed at all.
There is blame across the entirety of the club structure and that includes the owner. And if the end result is relegation - then that will be cataclysmic for us as a club.
It doesn’t need to mean protests. It doesn’t need to mean forcing an owner out.
I think if we do go down we will need to consider the lack of club leadership with football knowledge because that will then waterfall down eventually to what is happening on the pitch:
1) Hiring a manager who’s tactics look woeful.
2) Holding off firing said manager.
3) The structure put in place that delivered a woeful summer transfer window.
Yes it's a very real possibility, we are rubbish. Combine that with what we saw for large parts of last season as well, add in a host of injury prone and unfit players whilst our owner is singing Addicks to victory, it may well happen.
The bit that I can’t keep but pull my hair out in utter frustration is coming out again in this thread. Although the numbers are dwindling by the week.
”Thomas is blameless in this” “Adkins out, Roddy diabolical, but don’t really hold Thomas accountable. He has been let down”. ”We finally have a great owner”
You can’t pin all the blame on one doorstep at all, but it is totally illogical to suggest the set up and management of the club is wrong - and then suggest the guy who ultimately is responsible for hiring them all shouldn’t be blamed at all.
There is blame across the entirety of the club structure and that includes the owner. And if the end result is relegation - then that will be cataclysmic for us as a club.
It doesn’t need to mean protests. It doesn’t need to mean forcing an owner out.
I think if we do go down we will need to consider the lack of club leadership with football knowledge because that will then waterfall down eventually to what is happening on the pitch:
1) Hiring a manager who’s tactics look woeful.
2) Holding off firing said manager.
3) The structure put in place that delivered a woeful summer transfer window.
I wouldn't say he was blameless but I'm not sure TS deserves much criticism personally, however that is of course just my opinion.
The transfer structure is one used by clubs across the country, it is far from unheard of and not some radical concept portrayed by some. I'm also unsure as to why fans find it confusing or allude to it being somehow secretive as the process has been explained at great lengths by Sandgaard, Roddy, Gallen and Adkins.
Perhaps it is not used so much in lower leagues although I imagine there are plenty of league one and two clubs who operate a similar philosophy and have for years. There are probably pro's and con's to it but that's the same if you let a manager pick all the players, there are numerous teams up and down the country who have countless players clogging up their squads who have been brought in by 3-4 different managers.
People can criticise the summer business but I'm sure if people go on the transfer pages almost every signing was met with largely positive views from fans. The only one I remember being largely negative was CBT yet he has turned into one of the better signings. There are plenty criticising Kirk and granted he has looked poor however about a month ago there were people saying TS not getting his cheque book out and paying whatever Crewe wanted for him meant he lacked ambition. On paper many of The signings look good, in reality many have looked poor however how can TS be held responsible for player performances? That is NA department. I don't think there is one player anyone could have safely said was a dud when we signed them, and signings are always a gamble. That's why clubs invest millions in data, structures etc to try and minimise that risk of signing a dud but it happens for lots of different reasons.
People keep saying he needs to appoint people in football positions but he already has, Roddy is a football person with a track record in football, many lauded his appointment when it was announced. I'm sorry but nobody knows the inner workings of the club well enough to know if Roddy is a good appointment or not. He has a track record in the game and TS clearly values his opinion. We also still have Gallen here in a football position who is a football man. Adkins is an experienced manager with a track record in football, again the reaction to his appointment from fans was largely positive. Could anyone really predict his appointment would turn out as it has? Like signing players appointing managers is always a gamble, and given his track record you would say at the time NA felt like a safe hands type of appointment without a lot of risk.
This idea that he should get rid of practically everyone and start again is absolute madness, he has made appointments for the long term and that is the right approach. You can't just scrap everything and keep starting again. What happens if we start again and we are still in the same position in 3 months time? Sometimes you have to ignore the noise and stay true to your convictions which is what I believe TS is doing.
Nobody should be sacked immediately after a game like many think NA should have been yesterday. That is just acting on impulse and terrible decisions are often made on impulse and in the heat of the moment. TS is right to give himself the weekend to consider his options, if he does decide to dispense of NA Monday morning then at least it is a decision which has been thought through.
The bit that I can’t keep but pull my hair out in utter frustration is coming out again in this thread. Although the numbers are dwindling by the week.
”Thomas is blameless in this” “Adkins out, Roddy diabolical, but don’t really hold Thomas accountable. He has been let down”. ”We finally have a great owner”
You can’t pin all the blame on one doorstep at all, but it is totally illogical to suggest the set up and management of the club is wrong - and then suggest the guy who ultimately is responsible for hiring them all shouldn’t be blamed at all.
There is blame across the entirety of the club structure and that includes the owner. And if the end result is relegation - then that will be cataclysmic for us as a club.
It doesn’t need to mean protests. It doesn’t need to mean forcing an owner out.
I think if we do go down we will need to consider the lack of club leadership with football knowledge because that will then waterfall down eventually to what is happening on the pitch:
1) Hiring a manager who’s tactics look woeful.
2) Holding off firing said manager.
3) The structure put in place that delivered a woeful summer transfer window.
Nobody should be sacked immediately after a game like many think NA should have been yesterday. That is just acting on impulse and terrible decisions are often made on impulse and in the heat of the moment. TS is right to give himself the weekend to consider his options, if he does decide to dispense of NA Monday morning then at least it is a decision which has been thought through.
It's not just one game though. The failing yesterday are the same ones we've seen week after week, with a number of unacceptable performances. When a team is bad in the same way, game after game, that's what you're judging the manager on. Most managers get sacked soon after the game, because that game was the final straw
The bit that I can’t keep but pull my hair out in utter frustration is coming out again in this thread. Although the numbers are dwindling by the week.
”Thomas is blameless in this” “Adkins out, Roddy diabolical, but don’t really hold Thomas accountable. He has been let down”. ”We finally have a great owner”
You can’t pin all the blame on one doorstep at all, but it is totally illogical to suggest the set up and management of the club is wrong - and then suggest the guy who ultimately is responsible for hiring them all shouldn’t be blamed at all.
There is blame across the entirety of the club structure and that includes the owner. And if the end result is relegation - then that will be cataclysmic for us as a club.
It doesn’t need to mean protests. It doesn’t need to mean forcing an owner out.
I think if we do go down we will need to consider the lack of club leadership with football knowledge because that will then waterfall down eventually to what is happening on the pitch:
1) Hiring a manager who’s tactics look woeful.
2) Holding off firing said manager.
3) The structure put in place that delivered a woeful summer transfer window.
I wouldn't say he was blameless but I'm not sure TS deserves much criticism personally, however that is of course just my opinion.
The transfer structure is one used by clubs across the country, it is far from unheard of and not some radical concept portrayed by some. I'm also unsure as to why fans find it confusing or allude to it being somehow secretive as the process has been explained at great lengths by Sandgaard, Roddy, Gallen and Adkins.
Perhaps it is not used so much in lower leagues although I imagine there are plenty of league one and two clubs who operate a similar philosophy and have for years. There are probably pro's and con's to it but that's the same if you let a manager pick all the players, there are numerous teams up and down the country who have countless players clogging up their squads who have been brought in by 3-4 different managers.
People can criticise the summer business but I'm sure if people go on the transfer pages almost every signing was met with largely positive views from fans. The only one I remember being largely negative was CBT yet he has turned into one of the better signings. There are plenty criticising Kirk and granted he has looked poor however about a month ago there were people saying TS not getting his cheque book out and paying whatever Crewe wanted for him meant he lacked ambition. On paper many of The signings look good, in reality many have looked poor however how can TS be held responsible for player performances? That is NA department. I don't think there is one player anyone could have safely said was a dud when we signed them, and signings are always a gamble. That's why clubs invest millions in data, structures etc to try and minimise that risk of signing a dud but it happens for lots of different reasons.
People keep saying he needs to appoint people in football positions but he already has, Roddy is a football person with a track record in football, many lauded his appointment when it was announced. I'm sorry but nobody knows the inner workings of the club well enough to know if Roddy is a good appointment or not. He has a track record in the game and TS clearly values his opinion. We also still have Gallen here in a football position who is a football man. Adkins is an experienced manager with a track record in football, again the reaction to his appointment from fans was largely positive. Could anyone really predict his appointment would turn out as it has? Like signing players appointing managers is always a gamble, and given his track record you would say at the time NA felt like a safe hands type of appointment without a lot of risk.
This idea that he should get rid of practically everyone and start again is absolute madness, he has made appointments for the long term and that is the right approach. You can't just scrap everything and keep starting again. What happens if we start again and we are still in the same position in 3 months time? Sometimes you have to ignore the noise and stay true to your convictions which is what I believe TS is doing.
Nobody should be sacked immediately after a game like many think NA should have been yesterday. That is just acting on impulse and terrible decisions are often made on impulse and in the heat of the moment. TS is right to give himself the weekend to consider his options, if he does decide to dispense of NA Monday morning then at least it is a decision which has been thought through.
Good God! Where to start?
1) I don't think there is one player anyone could have safely said was a dud when we signed them
Yes, there was ... Jaiyesimi ... and I said it ... in February.
Dobson, Clare ... ordinary League 1 players .. not players to take us into the Championship and beyond. I'll leave it there.
2) Roddy is a football person with a track record in football
Yes, a track record. A good track record? No.
And even if he did have pedigree (which he doesn't), it's not exactly proving useful now, is it?
3) We also still have Gallen here in a football position who is a football man
Ah, Gallen ... a man who can do no wrong. He brought us Cullen and Bielik ... very well done, Steve. And Omar Bogle ... and the current crop of League 1 mediocrity.
4) Adkins is an experienced manager with a track record in football
Another track record ... he did well ten years ago.
5) You can't just scrap everything and keep starting again. What happens if we start again and we are still in the same position in 3 months time?
Well, that would be bad, of course. But how about starting again, and doing it properly, so that we are not in the same position in three months?
Are you really advocating the status quo because changing the current shambles might not improve things? See you in League 2.
6) That is just acting on impulse and terrible decisions are often made on impulse and in the heat of the moment
Nine points from 12 games. Impulse? Heat of the moment?
The bit that I can’t keep but pull my hair out in utter frustration is coming out again in this thread. Although the numbers are dwindling by the week.
”Thomas is blameless in this” “Adkins out, Roddy diabolical, but don’t really hold Thomas accountable. He has been let down”. ”We finally have a great owner”
You can’t pin all the blame on one doorstep at all, but it is totally illogical to suggest the set up and management of the club is wrong - and then suggest the guy who ultimately is responsible for hiring them all shouldn’t be blamed at all.
There is blame across the entirety of the club structure and that includes the owner. And if the end result is relegation - then that will be cataclysmic for us as a club.
It doesn’t need to mean protests. It doesn’t need to mean forcing an owner out.
I think if we do go down we will need to consider the lack of club leadership with football knowledge because that will then waterfall down eventually to what is happening on the pitch:
1) Hiring a manager who’s tactics look woeful.
2) Holding off firing said manager.
3) The structure put in place that delivered a woeful summer transfer window.
I wouldn't say he was blameless but I'm not sure TS deserves much criticism personally, however that is of course just my opinion.
The transfer structure is one used by clubs across the country, it is far from unheard of and not some radical concept portrayed by some. I'm also unsure as to why fans find it confusing or allude to it being somehow secretive as the process has been explained at great lengths by Sandgaard, Roddy, Gallen and Adkins.
Perhaps it is not used so much in lower leagues although I imagine there are plenty of league one and two clubs who operate a similar philosophy and have for years. There are probably pro's and con's to it but that's the same if you let a manager pick all the players, there are numerous teams up and down the country who have countless players clogging up their squads who have been brought in by 3-4 different managers.
People can criticise the summer business but I'm sure if people go on the transfer pages almost every signing was met with largely positive views from fans. The only one I remember being largely negative was CBT yet he has turned into one of the better signings. There are plenty criticising Kirk and granted he has looked poor however about a month ago there were people saying TS not getting his cheque book out and paying whatever Crewe wanted for him meant he lacked ambition. On paper many of The signings look good, in reality many have looked poor however how can TS be held responsible for player performances? That is NA department. I don't think there is one player anyone could have safely said was a dud when we signed them, and signings are always a gamble. That's why clubs invest millions in data, structures etc to try and minimise that risk of signing a dud but it happens for lots of different reasons.
People keep saying he needs to appoint people in football positions but he already has, Roddy is a football person with a track record in football, many lauded his appointment when it was announced. I'm sorry but nobody knows the inner workings of the club well enough to know if Roddy is a good appointment or not. He has a track record in the game and TS clearly values his opinion. We also still have Gallen here in a football position who is a football man. Adkins is an experienced manager with a track record in football, again the reaction to his appointment from fans was largely positive. Could anyone really predict his appointment would turn out as it has? Like signing players appointing managers is always a gamble, and given his track record you would say at the time NA felt like a safe hands type of appointment without a lot of risk.
This idea that he should get rid of practically everyone and start again is absolute madness, he has made appointments for the long term and that is the right approach. You can't just scrap everything and keep starting again. What happens if we start again and we are still in the same position in 3 months time? Sometimes you have to ignore the noise and stay true to your convictions which is what I believe TS is doing.
Nobody should be sacked immediately after a game like many think NA should have been yesterday. That is just acting on impulse and terrible decisions are often made on impulse and in the heat of the moment. TS is right to give himself the weekend to consider his options, if he does decide to dispense of NA Monday morning then at least it is a decision which has been thought through.
He has no track record or experience of doing the role he has with us at any league club
1) There were plenty of others who said all those signings were good ones. If at the time you said they'd be terrible then fair play, I am merely stating there was plenty of others with opposing views. They may not be the Ipswich style signings many expected but they all have League one experience and by all accounts had other suitors in League One. Its not like we were llucin
2) I suppose that depends what you class as a good track record. From what's in the public domain he has worked for FIFA and the Premier League and had a hand in developing the Elite Player Performance Plan. He was also director of football at Reading. I don't know the man or how good he is at his job, however you cannot say that is not a decent pedigree especially for an appointment at League one level. Yes he was sacked by Reading but show me someone in football who hasn't been sacked.
3) Gallen has had far more hits than misses which is saying something given the situations he has been faced with over recent years. You could quote bad signings about almost any sporting director as they happen, its about having more successes than failures which I'd say he has.
4) I'm not NA biggest fan and his track record is patchy, but it is a track record. I never said it was a good or great one however again I would suggest the majority felt he was a decent appointment when he came in and not many would have predicted how wrong it has gone.
5) How has it not been done properly? TS said he wanted key positions filled and he has filled many. There are still some to fill and CEO is definitely one of them, however there is a difference between adding more experience to the board-room and getting rid of everyone in it and starting again.
6) If Sandgaard sacked NA tomorrow he could have no complaints, I'm merely stating when you are discussing sacking the figure head of the club you should make a considered decision and not an hour after a game when emotions are raw. I'd much rather have someone who wants to spend a bit of time considering the decision before pulling the trigger than someone who does it immediately after a game. For what its worth my own opinion is the decision needs to be made sooner rather than later unless things drastically improve, but at least TS has shown some backing to the man and given him a shot at things. There is of course a fine line between giving him time and leaving it to late which nobody wants.
1) There were plenty of others who said all those signings were good ones. If at the time you said they'd be terrible then fair play, I am merely stating there was plenty of others with opposing views. They may not be the Ipswich style signings many expected but they all have League one experience and by all accounts had other suitors in League One. Its not like we were llucin
2) I suppose that depends what you class as a good track record. From what's in the public domain he has worked for FIFA and the Premier League and had a hand in developing the Elite Player Performance Plan. He was also director of football at Reading. I don't know the man or how good he is at his job, however you cannot say that is not a decent pedigree especially for an appointment at League one level. Yes he was sacked by Reading but show me someone in football who hasn't been sacked.
3) Gallen has had far more hits than misses which is saying something given the situations he has been faced with over recent years. You could quote bad signings about almost any sporting director as they happen, its about having more successes than failures which I'd say he has.
4) I'm not NA biggest fan and his track record is patchy, but it is a track record. I never said it was a good or great one however again I would suggest the majority felt he was a decent appointment when he came in and not many would have predicted how wrong it has gone.
5) How has it not been done properly? TS said he wanted key positions filled and he has filled many. There are still some to fill and CEO is definitely one of them, however there is a difference between adding more experience to the board-room and getting rid of everyone in it and starting again.
6) If Sandgaard sacked NA tomorrow he could have no complaints, I'm merely stating when you are discussing sacking the figure head of the club you should make a considered decision and not an hour after a game when emotions are raw. I'd much rather have someone who wants to spend a bit of time considering the decision before pulling the trigger than someone who does it immediately after a game. For what its worth my own opinion is the decision needs to be made sooner rather than later unless things drastically improve, but at least TS has shown some backing to the man and given him a shot at things. There is of course a fine line between giving him time and leaving it to late which nobody wants.
He was Academy Director at Reading, not the role we have given him, and nor has anyone else in the league given him that role before
There’s every chance. One quarter of a way through the season. A manager who hasn’t a clue, an owner reluctant to pull the trigger, gutless, crap performances and imo a squad made up of mediocre to poor players. There is nothing about the team that makes me think they are better than where we are. None of DJ, Kirk or Leko make me think they’ve got the stomach to play for the club. Stockley and Famewo seemed to have gone backwards. I can’t stand Gunter. He’s not interested. Lavelle might come good but he looks very unstable.
I don’t think these players deserve the respect of assuming they’re better than where we are.
1) There were plenty of others who said all those signings were good ones. If at the time you said they'd be terrible then fair play, I am merely stating there was plenty of others with opposing views. They may not be the Ipswich style signings many expected but they all have League one experience and by all accounts had other suitors in League One. Its not like we were llucin
2) I suppose that depends what you class as a good track record. From what's in the public domain he has worked for FIFA and the Premier League and had a hand in developing the Elite Player Performance Plan. He was also director of football at Reading. I don't know the man or how good he is at his job, however you cannot say that is not a decent pedigree especially for an appointment at League one level. Yes he was sacked by Reading but show me someone in football who hasn't been sacked.
3) Gallen has had far more hits than misses which is saying something given the situations he has been faced with over recent years. You could quote bad signings about almost any sporting director as they happen, its about having more successes than failures which I'd say he has.
4) I'm not NA biggest fan and his track record is patchy, but it is a track record. I never said it was a good or great one however again I would suggest the majority felt he was a decent appointment when he came in and not many would have predicted how wrong it has gone.
5) How has it not been done properly? TS said he wanted key positions filled and he has filled many. There are still some to fill and CEO is definitely one of them, however there is a difference between adding more experience to the board-room and getting rid of everyone in it and starting again.
6) If Sandgaard sacked NA tomorrow he could have no complaints, I'm merely stating when you are discussing sacking the figure head of the club you should make a considered decision and not an hour after a game when emotions are raw. I'd much rather have someone who wants to spend a bit of time considering the decision before pulling the trigger than someone who does it immediately after a game. For what its worth my own opinion is the decision needs to be made sooner rather than later unless things drastically improve, but at least TS has shown some backing to the man and given him a shot at things. There is of course a fine line between giving him time and leaving it to late which nobody wants.
He was Academy Director at Reading, not the role we have given him, and nor has anyone else in the league given him that role before
Fair enough. I don't know the man any better than anyone else on here, but I suppose that is my point that nobody knows if he is doing a good job or not because nobody sees what is happening behind the scenes. He could be great, he could be terrible. All we know is results have been poor but there could be numerous reasons behind that, perhaps Roddy is as bad as everyone makes out but I'm not sure there is any evidence to suggest any blame should be laid at his door purely because how would anyone have that evidence as they don't see what he is doing day to day?
Again this is purely my opinion but the key to any long term project is to avoid being reactionary, times are tough at the moment but I'm not sure anyone is far enough into this project yet to decide whether it is going to work or not. Clearing out the boardroom of people who have been in post less than a year feels short-sighted to me in the absence of any actual evidence that anyone in the board room is responsible for what we are seeing on the pitch.
That statement of mine would seem to lay the blame at NA's door, perhaps that is unfair of me however I do see a little of his day to day work as he is ultimately responsible for what happens on the pitch and so far it has been pretty poor. I've said this before but I don't think the team that has been assembled should be anywhere near the relegation zone, when you look at some of the teams accompanying us in those spots at the moment without being disrespectful they have squads you would expect to struggle. I didn't expect us to smash the league with this squad but to be where we are with this team at the moment implies we are not getting the best out of the resources at our disposal.
1) There were plenty of others who said all those signings were good ones. If at the time you said they'd be terrible then fair play, I am merely stating there was plenty of others with opposing views. They may not be the Ipswich style signings many expected but they all have League one experience and by all accounts had other suitors in League One. Its not like we were llucin
2) I suppose that depends what you class as a good track record. From what's in the public domain he has worked for FIFA and the Premier League and had a hand in developing the Elite Player Performance Plan. He was also director of football at Reading. I don't know the man or how good he is at his job, however you cannot say that is not a decent pedigree especially for an appointment at League one level. Yes he was sacked by Reading but show me someone in football who hasn't been sacked.
3) Gallen has had far more hits than misses which is saying something given the situations he has been faced with over recent years. You could quote bad signings about almost any sporting director as they happen, its about having more successes than failures which I'd say he has.
4) I'm not NA biggest fan and his track record is patchy, but it is a track record. I never said it was a good or great one however again I would suggest the majority felt he was a decent appointment when he came in and not many would have predicted how wrong it has gone.
5) How has it not been done properly? TS said he wanted key positions filled and he has filled many. There are still some to fill and CEO is definitely one of them, however there is a difference between adding more experience to the board-room and getting rid of everyone in it and starting again.
6) If Sandgaard sacked NA tomorrow he could have no complaints, I'm merely stating when you are discussing sacking the figure head of the club you should make a considered decision and not an hour after a game when emotions are raw. I'd much rather have someone who wants to spend a bit of time considering the decision before pulling the trigger than someone who does it immediately after a game. For what its worth my own opinion is the decision needs to be made sooner rather than later unless things drastically improve, but at least TS has shown some backing to the man and given him a shot at things. There is of course a fine line between giving him time and leaving it to late which nobody wants.
He was Academy Director at Reading, not the role we have given him, and nor has anyone else in the league given him that role before
Fair enough. I don't know the man any better than anyone else on here, but I suppose that is my point that nobody knows if he is doing a good job or not because nobody sees what is happening behind the scenes. He could be great, he could be terrible. All we know is results have been poor but there could be numerous reasons behind that, perhaps Roddy is as bad as everyone makes out but I'm not sure there is any evidence to suggest any blame should be laid at his door purely because how would anyone have that evidence as they don't see what he is doing day to day?
Again this is purely my opinion but the key to any long term project is to avoid being reactionary, times are tough at the moment but I'm not sure anyone is far enough into this project yet to decide whether it is going to work or not. Clearing out the boardroom of people who have been in post less than a year feels short-sighted to me in the absence of any actual evidence that anyone in the board room is responsible for what we are seeing on the pitch.
That statement of mine would seem to lay the blame at NA's door, perhaps that is unfair of me however I do see a little of his day to day work as he is ultimately responsible for what happens on the pitch and so far it has been pretty poor. I've said this before but I don't think the team that has been assembled should be anywhere near the relegation zone, when you look at some of the teams accompanying us in those spots at the moment without being disrespectful they have squads you would expect to struggle. I didn't expect us to smash the league with this squad but to be where we are with this team at the moment implies we are not getting the best out of the resources at our disposal.
So, let's not persist with the "I'm not saying Roddy is the problem" and "I'm not saying Adkins is the problem" and "I'm not saying Gallen is the problem" etc etc.
The 'evidence' that you are looking for is the fact that we are 22nd in the league with nine points from 12 games. Nobody knows if they are doing a good job? I do ... and so do you.
In all the relegations I’ve seen (too many), there had always been a game Dec/Jan where I’ve thought we are definitely in trouble if not convinced we are going down. Only exception possibly being the last one when I wasn’t convinced we were going down until 90+ minutes
I’ve not not yet hit the tipping point game but it’s definitely the worst I’ve felt in Octy
To me the season was lost (ie, no chance of promotion) when we started the season woefully short of players, which included not having a fit left back & not replacing last seasons top goalscorer. Even Adkins has come out with the classic Golfie mantra of "you've got to have a player who will get you 20+ goals".
Look at our current strikeforce. Stockley & Davison. And thats it. Washington is more of a wide player / No 10 and Leko himself says he's more of a wide player too. So far our central defender is tied for 2nd place in the goalscoring charts (league games).
Unless a miracle happens or in January we sign a in-form & consistent striker then we are destined for bottom half. If, as some poster above have said, we dont pick up 6 or 7 points before the end of the month then after the FA Cup game we could be in real danger of getting relegated. Clean sheets might stop the rot but scoring goals wins you games. Not many teams get relegated with a 20 goal a season striker.
To me the season was lost (ie, no chance of promotion) when we started the season woefully short of players, which included not having a fit left back & not replacing last seasons top goalscorer. Even Adkins has come out with the classic Golfie mantra of "you've got to have a player who will get you 20+ goals".
Look at our current strikeforce. Stockley & Davison. And thats it. Washington is more of a wide player / No 10 and Leko himself says he's more of a wide player too. So far our central defender is tied for 2nd place in the goalscoring charts (league games).
Unless a miracle happens or in January we sign a in-form & consistent striker then we are destined for bottom half. If, as some poster above have said, we dont pick up 6 or 7 points before the end of the month then after the FA Cup game we could be in real danger of getting relegated. Clean sheets might stop the rot but scoring goals wins you games. Not many teams get relegated with a 20 goal a season striker.
I wish it was as simple as getting a good striker in. It's an area we could improve of course but every other area of our play isn't good enough. We can't defend, play from the back (or use long balls well), move into space, create chances or press teams. We rely on individual moments to create something rather than quality coming across the team. When we do create a few chances Stockley, Leko and Davison have scored. I don't remember them wasting too many good chances.
To compare Plymouth are top of the league and their top three scorers have had 31, 23 and 24 (78 in total) and scored 18 goals.
Ours have had 14, 10 and 10 shots (34 in total) and scored 7 goals. So our goals as a percentage of shots is very similar (23% v 21%), the big difference is the number of chances Plymouth create.
I checked a few other clubs and they're very similar, their top three scorers getting goals from 20-25% of their shots. Plymouth's three have had a lot more shots than most so it's no surprise they've scored more.
Yesterday Stockley and Davison barely got the ball in shooting position - where were the crosses and through balls from the midfield and defence?
If we could improve every area of our play to top 6 standard but kept the strikers we have we'd do better than signing the best strikers but keeping the rest of our play at bottom 4 standard.
In all the relegations I’ve seen (too many), there had always been a game Dec/Jan where I’ve thought we are definitely in trouble if not convinced we are going down. Only exception possibly being the last one when I wasn’t convinced we were going down until 90+ minutes
I’ve not not yet hit the tipping point game but it’s definitely the worst I’ve felt in Octy
Hull at home in the relegation season was the game that threatened to be the turning point, until we conceded after the added time. Was fuming for 2 days. Yesterday it hardly registered when they scored the winner, such is my apathy.
Christ wilder (give him a couple of million a year in wages) plus his backroom staff plus 10 million to spend - we are either serious or we aren't - so far we very clearly aren't.
Or has TS spent millions just to play guitar in front of 20k people live -
He is a classic corporate guy trying to transpose those techniques onto an environment that is unique and a "business like no other" as Curbs puts it.
We need someone who has been there and done it and is a bit hard (Carry on meme here please). a furious Adkins is not intimidating - a young team need a figurehead - a leader - someone to clip them round the ear - this New Age everything is brilliant doesn't cut it in division 3 with a bunch of old pros and up-comers.
We've seen this all before - staying up is now the only priority - we could attract players previously because of Bowyer we don't have that draw anymore - so we need another top pro turned manager or an experienced head who we fund - fully.
"It's a shite state of Tommy and no amount of fresh air is going to make any fucking difference"
Comments
Wouldn’t be surprised if Roddy is whispering in TS ear to say “keep with him. Things will change”
It really is time to act to avoid the unthinkable. If blind arrogance gets in the way, we deserve what is coming to us (not fans, but club (revenues, support etc).
”Thomas is blameless in this”
“Adkins out, Roddy diabolical, but don’t really hold Thomas accountable. He has been let down”.
”We finally have a great owner”
You can’t pin all the blame on one doorstep at all, but it is totally illogical to suggest the set up and management of the club is wrong - and then suggest the guy who ultimately is responsible for hiring them all shouldn’t be blamed at all.
There is blame across the entirety of the club structure and that includes the owner. And if the end result is relegation - then that will be cataclysmic for us as a club.
It doesn’t need to mean protests. It doesn’t need to mean forcing an owner out.
1) Hiring a manager who’s tactics look woeful.
2) Holding off firing said manager.
3) The structure put in place that delivered a woeful summer transfer window.
Too many teams are beating us, and beating us easily. We're defensively inept (and I mean that collectively as a side), our football is dire.
To genuinely be one of the worst 4 teams in L1 is a disgrace
The transfer structure is one used by clubs across the country, it is far from unheard of and not some radical concept portrayed by some. I'm also unsure as to why fans find it confusing or allude to it being somehow secretive as the process has been explained at great lengths by Sandgaard, Roddy, Gallen and Adkins.
Perhaps it is not used so much in lower leagues although I imagine there are plenty of league one and two clubs who operate a similar philosophy and have for years. There are probably pro's and con's to it but that's the same if you let a manager pick all the players, there are numerous teams up and down the country who have countless players clogging up their squads who have been brought in by 3-4 different managers.
People can criticise the summer business but I'm sure if people go on the transfer pages almost every signing was met with largely positive views from fans. The only one I remember being largely negative was CBT yet he has turned into one of the better signings. There are plenty criticising Kirk and granted he has looked poor however about a month ago there were people saying TS not getting his cheque book out and paying whatever Crewe wanted for him meant he lacked ambition. On paper many of The signings look good, in reality many have looked poor however how can TS be held responsible for player performances? That is NA department. I don't think there is one player anyone could have safely said was a dud when we signed them, and signings are always a gamble. That's why clubs invest millions in data, structures etc to try and minimise that risk of signing a dud but it happens for lots of different reasons.
People keep saying he needs to appoint people in football positions but he already has, Roddy is a football person with a track record in football, many lauded his appointment when it was announced. I'm sorry but nobody knows the inner workings of the club well enough to know if Roddy is a good appointment or not. He has a track record in the game and TS clearly values his opinion. We also still have Gallen here in a football position who is a football man. Adkins is an experienced manager with a track record in football, again the reaction to his appointment from fans was largely positive. Could anyone really predict his appointment would turn out as it has? Like signing players appointing managers is always a gamble, and given his track record you would say at the time NA felt like a safe hands type of appointment without a lot of risk.
This idea that he should get rid of practically everyone and start again is absolute madness, he has made appointments for the long term and that is the right approach. You can't just scrap everything and keep starting again. What happens if we start again and we are still in the same position in 3 months time? Sometimes you have to ignore the noise and stay true to your convictions which is what I believe TS is doing.
Nobody should be sacked immediately after a game like many think NA should have been yesterday. That is just acting on impulse and terrible decisions are often made on impulse and in the heat of the moment. TS is right to give himself the weekend to consider his options, if he does decide to dispense of NA Monday morning then at least it is a decision which has been thought through.
Good God! Where to start?
1) I don't think there is one player anyone could have safely said was a dud when we signed them
Yes, there was ... Jaiyesimi ... and I said it ... in February.
Dobson, Clare ... ordinary League 1 players .. not players to take us into the Championship and beyond. I'll leave it there.
2) Roddy is a football person with a track record in football
Yes, a track record. A good track record? No.
And even if he did have pedigree (which he doesn't), it's not exactly proving useful now, is it?
3) We also still have Gallen here in a football position who is a football man
Ah, Gallen ... a man who can do no wrong. He brought us Cullen and Bielik ... very well done, Steve. And Omar Bogle ... and the current crop of League 1 mediocrity.
4) Adkins is an experienced manager with a track record in football
Another track record ... he did well ten years ago.
5) You can't just scrap everything and keep starting again. What happens if we start again and we are still in the same position in 3 months time?
Well, that would be bad, of course. But how about starting again, and doing it properly, so that we are not in the same position in three months?
Are you really advocating the status quo because changing the current shambles might not improve things? See you in League 2.
6) That is just acting on impulse and terrible decisions are often made on impulse and in the heat of the moment
Nine points from 12 games. Impulse? Heat of the moment?
Give me strength.
2) I suppose that depends what you class as a good track record. From what's in the public domain he has worked for FIFA and the Premier League and had a hand in developing the Elite Player Performance Plan. He was also director of football at Reading. I don't know the man or how good he is at his job, however you cannot say that is not a decent pedigree especially for an appointment at League one level. Yes he was sacked by Reading but show me someone in football who hasn't been sacked.
3) Gallen has had far more hits than misses which is saying something given the situations he has been faced with over recent years. You could quote bad signings about almost any sporting director as they happen, its about having more successes than failures which I'd say he has.
4) I'm not NA biggest fan and his track record is patchy, but it is a track record. I never said it was a good or great one however again I would suggest the majority felt he was a decent appointment when he came in and not many would have predicted how wrong it has gone.
5) How has it not been done properly? TS said he wanted key positions filled and he has filled many. There are still some to fill and CEO is definitely one of them, however there is a difference between adding more experience to the board-room and getting rid of everyone in it and starting again.
6) If Sandgaard sacked NA tomorrow he could have no complaints, I'm merely stating when you are discussing sacking the figure head of the club you should make a considered decision and not an hour after a game when emotions are raw. I'd much rather have someone who wants to spend a bit of time considering the decision before pulling the trigger than someone who does it immediately after a game. For what its worth my own opinion is the decision needs to be made sooner rather than later unless things drastically improve, but at least TS has shown some backing to the man and given him a shot at things. There is of course a fine line between giving him time and leaving it to late which nobody wants.
Again this is purely my opinion but the key to any long term project is to avoid being reactionary, times are tough at the moment but I'm not sure anyone is far enough into this project yet to decide whether it is going to work or not. Clearing out the boardroom of people who have been in post less than a year feels short-sighted to me in the absence of any actual evidence that anyone in the board room is responsible for what we are seeing on the pitch.
That statement of mine would seem to lay the blame at NA's door, perhaps that is unfair of me however I do see a little of his day to day work as he is ultimately responsible for what happens on the pitch and so far it has been pretty poor. I've said this before but I don't think the team that has been assembled should be anywhere near the relegation zone, when you look at some of the teams accompanying us in those spots at the moment without being disrespectful they have squads you would expect to struggle. I didn't expect us to smash the league with this squad but to be where we are with this team at the moment implies we are not getting the best out of the resources at our disposal.
So, let's not persist with the "I'm not saying Roddy is the problem" and "I'm not saying Adkins is the problem" and "I'm not saying Gallen is the problem" etc etc.
The 'evidence' that you are looking for is the fact that we are 22nd in the league with nine points from 12 games. Nobody knows if they are doing a good job? I do ... and so do you.
They are all to blame.
And they all need to go.
I’ve not not yet hit the tipping point game but it’s definitely the worst I’ve felt in Octy
Look at our current strikeforce. Stockley & Davison. And thats it. Washington is more of a wide player / No 10 and Leko himself says he's more of a wide player too. So far our central defender is tied for 2nd place in the goalscoring charts (league games).
Unless a miracle happens or in January we sign a in-form & consistent striker then we are destined for bottom half. If, as some poster above have said, we dont pick up 6 or 7 points before the end of the month then after the FA Cup game we could be in real danger of getting relegated. Clean sheets might stop the rot but scoring goals wins you games. Not many teams get relegated with a 20 goal a season striker.
To compare Plymouth are top of the league and their top three scorers have had 31, 23 and 24 (78 in total) and scored 18 goals.
Ours have had 14, 10 and 10 shots (34 in total) and scored 7 goals. So our goals as a percentage of shots is very similar (23% v 21%), the big difference is the number of chances Plymouth create.
I checked a few other clubs and they're very similar, their top three scorers getting goals from 20-25% of their shots. Plymouth's three have had a lot more shots than most so it's no surprise they've scored more.
Yesterday Stockley and Davison barely got the ball in shooting position - where were the crosses and through balls from the midfield and defence?
If we could improve every area of our play to top 6 standard but kept the strikers we have we'd do better than signing the best strikers but keeping the rest of our play at bottom 4 standard.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/charlton-athletic/top-scorers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/plymouth-argyle/top-scorers
Yesterday it hardly registered when they scored the winner, such is my apathy.
Christ wilder (give him a couple of million a year in wages) plus his backroom staff plus 10 million to spend - we are either serious or we aren't - so far we very clearly aren't.
Or has TS spent millions just to play guitar in front of 20k people live -
He is a classic corporate guy trying to transpose those techniques onto an environment that is unique and a "business like no other" as Curbs puts it.
We need someone who has been there and done it and is a bit hard (Carry on meme here please). a furious Adkins is not intimidating - a young team need a figurehead - a leader - someone to clip them round the ear - this New Age everything is brilliant doesn't cut it in division 3 with a bunch of old pros and up-comers.
We've seen this all before - staying up is now the only priority - we could attract players previously because of Bowyer we don't have that draw anymore - so we need another top pro turned manager or an experienced head who we fund - fully.
"It's a shite state of Tommy and no amount of fresh air is going to make any fucking difference"