If you’re calling for Jackson and Euell to be sacked then you need to give your head a wobble.
Two of the last Charlton people at the club and there’s absolutely zero evidence of them having anything to do with the poor form. I think everyone needs to take a long hard think about who they hound out of the football club, before it’s too late.
I can feel the toxicity brewing, first it was Bowyer, now it’s Adkins, then it’ll be the backroom staff, then it’ll be Sandgaard.
The phrase “Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater” comes to mind
I don’t want them sacked but hang on. “Zero evidence of having anything to do with poor form” !!!!!!!!! They are the two first team coaches. I’m pretty sure that if they are not having anything to do with form then they deserve to be sacked. It’s their job to coach and improve the players. Are you currently seeing any evidence of that ?
Do they pick the team? Are they on the transfer committee? Do they make the final decisions? There’s no evidence for any of the above and they shouldn’t be held accountable for them.
Using this logic, Bowyer and Jackson should have been sacked alongside Robinson. They were coaching under a poor manager and when he goes we play some of the best football I’ve seen in years.
Logic doesn’t come into it. I’m not suggesting that either or both of Jonnie or Jason are to blame and should go but it’s obviously ridiculous to think they have no impact on the players form. If they don’t. Why the eff not.
Nobody has said they don’t have an impact on the players form.
The point is we don’t know to what extent the impact they have, nor are they the ones in charge of the team. Until we know the facts, let’s not point fingers
Lol. I’m not pointing a finger at anyone. Tell me what a coach does though if it’s not improving players ? Fwiw. I’m pretty sure both would rather play 4-4-2 so I’m not blaming them for tactics or selection. That’s Adkins, but I’m sorry I can’t see how they don’t shoulder a small portion of the blame.
Why are you sure they would when Euall didn't when he was u23s manager and Jackson didn't when he picked the team?
My issue isn't with Jackson or Euall, nor how good or not they are, it's the managers ability to pick their own backroom team and not having it forced upon them.
If either of them get they job is the other one forced upon them, regardless if they want them or not? Who appoints the replacement? The manager?
If the manager is 100% responsible for the results, like they should be, they need to have 100% backing to give them the tools they need to do their jobs. Else sacking one and moving to the next one won't achieve anything in the long run.
If you’re calling for Jackson and Euell to be sacked then you need to give your head a wobble.
Two of the last Charlton people at the club and there’s absolutely zero evidence of them having anything to do with the poor form. I think everyone needs to take a long hard think about who they hound out of the football club, before it’s too late.
I can feel the toxicity brewing, first it was Bowyer, now it’s Adkins, then it’ll be the backroom staff, then it’ll be Sandgaard.
The phrase “Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater” comes to mind
I don’t want them sacked but hang on. “Zero evidence of having anything to do with poor form” !!!!!!!!! They are the two first team coaches. I’m pretty sure that if they are not having anything to do with form then they deserve to be sacked. It’s their job to coach and improve the players. Are you currently seeing any evidence of that ?
Do they pick the team? Are they on the transfer committee? Do they make the final decisions? There’s no evidence for any of the above and they shouldn’t be held accountable for them.
Using this logic, Bowyer and Jackson should have been sacked alongside Robinson. They were coaching under a poor manager and when he goes we play some of the best football I’ve seen in years.
Logic doesn’t come into it. I’m not suggesting that either or both of Jonnie or Jason are to blame and should go but it’s obviously ridiculous to think they have no impact on the players form. If they don’t. Why the eff not.
Nobody has said they don’t have an impact on the players form.
The point is we don’t know to what extent the impact they have, nor are they the ones in charge of the team. Until we know the facts, let’s not point fingers
Lol. I’m not pointing a finger at anyone. Tell me what a coach does though if it’s not improving players ? Fwiw. I’m pretty sure both would rather play 4-4-2 so I’m not blaming them for tactics or selection. That’s Adkins, but I’m sorry I can’t see how they don’t shoulder a small portion of the blame.
Why are you sure they would when Euall didn't when he was u23s manager and Jackson didn't when he picked the team?
My issue isn't with Jackson or Euall, nor how good or not they are, it's the managers ability to pick their own backroom team and not having it forced upon them.
If either of them get they job is the other one forced upon them, regardless if they want them or not? Who appoints the replacement? The manager?
If the manager is 100% responsible for the results, like they should be, they need to have 100% backing to give them the tools they need to do their jobs. Else sacking one and moving to the next one won't achieve anything in the long run.
I agree. Manager should be responsible for everything with regard to first team affairs. If he’s not then it’s harder to apportion 100% blame. As for JJ preference for 4-4-2 I’m afraid you’ll have to take my word for that.
Like Tel said, we are a club trying to be all things to all people, but have forgotten the most important bit, winning football matches. Players are appointed all these fancy titles for work they are doing "in the community" but they are not doing their jobs on the football pitch. Adkins is just a part of a structure that isn't fit for purpose. Players who are unfamiliar with eachother are being asked to play in systems and formations that they are unfamiliar with. It's a losing combination! Bob Bolder had it spot on yesterday, go back to basics, simple 4 4 2, start grinding out some results first, then you can start tweeking things. I hope Adkins turns it around obviously, but he's never come across as the type of manager who is successful at Charlton. In my lifetime, the successful ones have always been, fairly dour, strict, thoughtful, slightly withdrawn characters. The exception being maybe Riga, very briefly. The dream ticket for me would be Curbs with Brownie or possibly Bowen as assistant. The whole club needs to be reunited and put back on the correct track, and Sandy needs to learn quickly, what makes Charlton tick. Sorry, personally, I don't give two hoots about woman's football, I want full concentration and full resources going into what really matters.
Yes, Chris Powell fits that description perfectly 🧐
Not exactly prolonged success thought was it? I'd put the achievements of Lennie and Curbs way ahead of him. As much as I loved CP, his football towards the end was terrible. You are correct that he got off to a great start and of course, personality wise, a far more jovial character. I'd like a manager with longevity who can build us up, and then stick around 5-10 years, if that's even possible these days!
CP wasn’t a tactician but the players wanted to play for him. He has no backing in the market in that second championship season and the pitch was horrendous.
This, let’s also not forget he finished 9th in the second tier, our highest finish outside the top flight since 2000, before the finances were decimated.
An excellent man manager who his players played for, and well organised defensively.
Like Tel said, we are a club trying to be all things to all people, but have forgotten the most important bit, winning football matches. Players are appointed all these fancy titles for work they are doing "in the community" but they are not doing their jobs on the football pitch. Adkins is just a part of a structure that isn't fit for purpose. Players who are unfamiliar with eachother are being asked to play in systems and formations that they are unfamiliar with. It's a losing combination! Bob Bolder had it spot on yesterday, go back to basics, simple 4 4 2, start grinding out some results first, then you can start tweeking things. I hope Adkins turns it around obviously, but he's never come across as the type of manager who is successful at Charlton. In my lifetime, the successful ones have always been, fairly dour, strict, thoughtful, slightly withdrawn characters. The exception being maybe Riga, very briefly. The dream ticket for me would be Curbs with Brownie or possibly Bowen as assistant. The whole club needs to be reunited and put back on the correct track, and Sandy needs to learn quickly, what makes Charlton tick. Sorry, personally, I don't give two hoots about woman's football, I want full concentration and full resources going into what really matters.
Yes, Chris Powell fits that description perfectly 🧐
Not exactly prolonged success thought was it? I'd put the achievements of Lennie and Curbs way ahead of him. As much as I loved CP, his football towards the end was terrible. You are correct that he got off to a great start and of course, personality wise, a far more jovial character. I'd like a manager with longevity who can build us up, and then stick around 5-10 years, if that's even possible these days!
CP wasn’t a tactician but the players wanted to play for him. He has no backing in the market in that second championship season and the pitch was horrendous.
This, let’s also not forget he finished 9th in the second tier, our highest finish outside the top flight since 2000, before the finances were decimated.
An excellent man manager who his players played for, and well organised defensively.
Actually after the finances were wrecked. That happened in 2012. I might just have the evidence for that… seriously, staff were buying food at Makro to cater for events because no one would supply the club. Although we did get players that summer they weren’t the targets he’d been asked to identify.
Stockley reminds me a little of Santa Jr playing up front in an U11 game yesterday. Jr scored 5 goals in the first half (ok no similarities yet) but in the second half he had 3 defenders on him the whole time and almost no support which meant he didn't have a sniff of a chance. Isolated strikers without decent pace are just too easy to defend.
Unless they are very clever. Lyle Taylor used to move towards the full back so it would harder to double up, as it would lead a huge gap down the middle of the pitch.
Lyle wasn't a burner but he had decent pace, especially at this level.
Have we sunk to such low expectations that we are happy to appoint 2 untried managers just because they are club ‘legends’? It would be a clear sign that Tommy’s master plan for the Prem and Europe was complete guff or a deluded vision based his youth/growth recruitment strategy and willingness to have a go with JJ and JE. My gut tells me that’s exactly what he will do though..
Yes, Curbs and Gritty worked out but going with JJ and Euele would be a massive gamble, especially with us already sitting in the bottom 3. I’m not set against it but, personally, something tells me JJ is not management material like Curbs or Powelly. I’m more positive about JE.
All I know is that my £500 ‘top half’ league finish bet looks very precarious after just 7 bloody games. Hard to believe that 22 League 1 teams are better then us!
Feeling very numb about the Club right now.
Lennie Lawrence, Alan Curbishley, Chris Powell and Lee Bowyer were all untried managers when we appointed them, and they are the only managers we’ve had success under. It’s the “experienced” managers who appear to be the real problem.
Like Tel said, we are a club trying to be all things to all people, but have forgotten the most important bit, winning football matches. Players are appointed all these fancy titles for work they are doing "in the community" but they are not doing their jobs on the football pitch. Adkins is just a part of a structure that isn't fit for purpose. Players who are unfamiliar with eachother are being asked to play in systems and formations that they are unfamiliar with. It's a losing combination! Bob Bolder had it spot on yesterday, go back to basics, simple 4 4 2, start grinding out some results first, then you can start tweeking things. I hope Adkins turns it around obviously, but he's never come across as the type of manager who is successful at Charlton. In my lifetime, the successful ones have always been, fairly dour, strict, thoughtful, slightly withdrawn characters. The exception being maybe Riga, very briefly. The dream ticket for me would be Curbs with Brownie or possibly Bowen as assistant. The whole club needs to be reunited and put back on the correct track, and Sandy needs to learn quickly, what makes Charlton tick. Sorry, personally, I don't give two hoots about woman's football, I want full concentration and full resources going into what really matters.
Yes, Chris Powell fits that description perfectly 🧐
Not exactly prolonged success thought was it? I'd put the achievements of Lennie and Curbs way ahead of him. As much as I loved CP, his football towards the end was terrible. You are correct that he got off to a great start and of course, personality wise, a far more jovial character. I'd like a manager with longevity who can build us up, and then stick around 5-10 years, if that's even possible these days!
CP wasn’t a tactician but the players wanted to play for him. He has no backing in the market in that second championship season and the pitch was horrendous.
This, let’s also not forget he finished 9th in the second tier, our highest finish outside the top flight since 2000, before the finances were decimated.
An excellent man manager who his players played for, and well organised defensively.
Actually after the finances were wrecked. That happened in 2012. I might just have the evidence for that… seriously staff were buying food at Makro to cater for events because no one would supply the club.
Well that adds to my point more so. Powell’s tenure was nothing other than a success.
There were a few calling for him to go 13/14 but I think it’s fair to say we didn’t quite know the direction the club was about to head in.
For my own sanity I’d love to see Euell and Jacko given a crack as interim for a couple of months. It would give the place a real lift, they both done their badges and both worked they way up the coaching ladders. They’d also get a lot more time than someone else. Imagine the lift 2.5k away fans will be given heading into Tuesday.
I can’t think of a single available manager who is actually “good” to replace Adkins with. If they were good they would not need to accept a L1 position. So if we do move Nigel out then we might as well go with Jacko.
If you’re calling for Jackson and Euell to be sacked then you need to give your head a wobble.
Two of the last Charlton people at the club and there’s absolutely zero evidence of them having anything to do with the poor form. I think everyone needs to take a long hard think about who they hound out of the football club, before it’s too late.
I can feel the toxicity brewing, first it was Bowyer, now it’s Adkins, then it’ll be the backroom staff, then it’ll be Sandgaard.
The phrase “Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater” comes to mind
I don’t want them sacked but hang on. “Zero evidence of having anything to do with poor form” !!!!!!!!! They are the two first team coaches. I’m pretty sure that if they are not having anything to do with form then they deserve to be sacked. It’s their job to coach and improve the players. Are you currently seeing any evidence of that ?
First team coaches do not pick the match day squads, choose the style of play, choose tactics, choose what subs to do and most importantly.. manage the game.
Screaming for them to be sacked or even be at fault is ridiculous
Of course coaches are involved in the tactics and style of play. Todays modern game involves studying the opposition weeks before the actual game following which coaches along with the management team drill the team in upcoming training sessions as to how to play against the opposition.
I know we don't look like we do but to say Jackson & Euell are not involved is just not true. If all Jackson & Euell are doing is monitoring the players running round the outside of the pitch for 10 laps to get their heart rate up we may as well ding them and save on the wage bill.
That is why before they are given the jobs, they need to be interrogated about their ideas. If I was the owner I would want to know what they think is wrong and what they would do to put it right. If they can answer those questions, well they ought to be given a chance. If they think nothing is wrong and they can't come up with a plan to put it right, then it would be mad giving either or both of them the job.
I would add that the best number twos are those that support the number one. I would expect them to be learning from the mistakes and successes of the number ones they have served but they can't undermine them. JJ has probably come to the point where it is now or never. I don't know whether he has the qualities or not, but if I was Thomas with the help of some experienced ex pros, and there are quite a few on the payroll, I reckon I could find out. The same with Euell and a few others that may have ambitions in management.
In terms of CP, I agree that he wasn't a tactician, but he worked out what was wrong and set out to put it right and what he did in no time at all was one of the most impressive things I have seen a Charlton manager do. Curbs is the best manager I have seen us have, but he did it over a longer a period of time. Powell turned shit to gold in a window.
If you’re calling for Jackson and Euell to be sacked then you need to give your head a wobble.
Two of the last Charlton people at the club and there’s absolutely zero evidence of them having anything to do with the poor form. I think everyone needs to take a long hard think about who they hound out of the football club, before it’s too late.
I can feel the toxicity brewing, first it was Bowyer, now it’s Adkins, then it’ll be the backroom staff, then it’ll be Sandgaard.
The phrase “Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater” comes to mind
I don’t want them sacked but hang on. “Zero evidence of having anything to do with poor form” !!!!!!!!! They are the two first team coaches. I’m pretty sure that if they are not having anything to do with form then they deserve to be sacked. It’s their job to coach and improve the players. Are you currently seeing any evidence of that ?
First team coaches do not pick the match day squads, choose the style of play, choose tactics, choose what subs to do and most importantly.. manage the game.
Screaming for them to be sacked or even be at fault is ridiculous
Of course coaches are involved in the tactics and style of play. Todays modern game involves studying the opposition weeks before the actual game following which coaches along with the management team drill the team in upcoming training sessions as to how to play against the opposition.
I know we don't look like we do but to say Jackson & Euell are not involved is just not true. If all Jackson & Euell are doing is monitoring the players running round the outside of the pitch for 10 laps to get their heart rate up we may as well ding them and save on the wage bill.
That is why before they are given the jobs, they need to be interrogated about their ideas. If I was the owner I would want to know what they think is wrong and what they would do to put it right. If they can answer those questions, well they ought to be given a chance. If they think nothing is wrong and they can't come up with a plan to put it right, then it would be mad giving either or both of them the job.
I would add that the best number twos are those that support the number one. I would expect them to be learning from the mistakes and successes of the number ones they have served but they can't undermine them. JJ has probably come to the point where it is now or never. I don't know whether he has the qualities or not, but if I was Thomas with the help of some experienced ex pros, and there are quite a few on the payroll, I reckon I could find out. The same with Euell and a few others that may have ambitions in management.
In terms of CP, I agree that he wasn't a tactician, but he worked out what was wrong and set out to put it right and what he did in no time at all was one of the most impressive things I have seen a Charlton manager do. Curbs is the best manager I have seen us have, but he did it over a longer a period of time. Powell turned shit to gold in a window.
There is a good argument that the owner should be doing that with his senior football people anyway.
Yes, but did it happen last season? I said the same last season because it was the logical next step. These structures designed by people who think they are smarter than they are did not work when Curbs left and they didn't work when Duchatelet took over when he had a perfectly good manager that needed supporting not undermining, but he had a clever plan, and they are not working now.
Stockley reminds me a little of Santa Jr playing up front in an U11 game yesterday. Jr scored 5 goals in the first half (ok no similarities yet) but in the second half he had 3 defenders on him the whole time and almost no support which meant he didn't have a sniff of a chance. Isolated strikers without decent pace are just too easy to defend.
Unless they are very clever. Lyle Taylor used to move towards the full back so it would harder to double up, as it would lead a huge gap down the middle of the pitch.
Taylor wasnt fast but did have some pace and mobility, unlike stockley who runs like a elephant with rollerstakes on
Recent success with appointments have been with young inexperienced managers, such as Curbs, Powell and Bowyer. Those with experience elsewhere, no matter their pedigree, haven't worked for us.
Dont think the problem is experienced managers, cos we have had some bad ones, does not mean just going for inexperienced managers is the only recipe for success, because not every inexperienced appointment is going be a curbs or LL, with Adkins we have experience but a dinosaur of the game. Not sure inexperience is a good route in a relegation scrap, which we cant deny but we are in
Recent success with appointments have been with young inexperienced managers, such as Curbs, Powell and Bowyer. Those with experience elsewhere, no matter their pedigree, haven't worked for us.
Massively disrespectful to Karel Fraeye. Apologise.
Dont think the problem is experienced managers, cos we have had some bad ones, does not mean just going for inexperienced managers is the only recipe for success, because not every inexperienced appointment is going be a curbs or LL, with Adkins we have experience but a dinosaur of the game. Not sure inexperience is a good route in a relegation scrap, which we cant deny but we are in
I deny that we are in a relegation scrap because we are 7 games in. Barnsley were in the relegation zone in December a few years ago and went up!
it’s not even October yet and the league table hasn’t taken shape yet. It’s a far from ideal start that we’ve had and we need a change to move up the table, but it’s far to early to suggest we, or any club in the bottom 7 are in a relegation scrap. Likewise, far to early to say Wimbledon are play off candidates.
I cant help thinking that Bowyer seemed to lose it when Roddy arrived and Roddy is still here ...I am not saying Adkins is a great manager but the roddy/manager axis is fundamentally flawed in my view..(I think I might be quoting rm when he sacked gritt but what the heck)
I cant help thinking that Bowyer seemed to lose it when Roddy arrived and Roddy is still here ...I am not saying Adkins is a great manager but the roddy/manager axis is fundamentally flawed in my view..(I think I might be quoting rm when he sacked gritt but what the heck)
Expecting a very informative and lively CAST meeting on Wednesday ...
I cant help thinking that Bowyer seemed to lose it when Roddy arrived and Roddy is still here ...I am not saying Adkins is a great manager but the roddy/manager axis is fundamentally flawed in my view..(I think I might be quoting rm when he sacked gritt but what the heck)
This is 100% my view as well.
Someone has said that Adkins didnt choose the keeping coach either - if he didn’t who did ?
I cant help thinking that Bowyer seemed to lose it when Roddy arrived and Roddy is still here ...I am not saying Adkins is a great manager but the roddy/manager axis is fundamentally flawed in my view..(I think I might be quoting rm when he sacked gritt but what the heck)
This is 100% my view as well.
Someone has said that Adkins didnt choose the keeping coach either - if he didn’t who did ?
Did we need one Nads used to be a keeper why couldn’t he do that and hand over outfield duties to his assistants🤷♂️. At least they couldn’t have done any worse five defeats in seven league games and lowest position in our history? Certainly since I’ve been supporting for the last 65 years 😤. Busted Flush,
I cant help thinking that Bowyer seemed to lose it when Roddy arrived and Roddy is still here ...I am not saying Adkins is a great manager but the roddy/manager axis is fundamentally flawed in my view..(I think I might be quoting rm when he sacked gritt but what the heck)
I think that is the case too. Hadn’t we just won 6 on the spin when Roddy arrived ?
Comments
My issue isn't with Jackson or Euall, nor how good or not they are, it's the managers ability to pick their own backroom team and not having it forced upon them.
If either of them get they job is the other one forced upon them, regardless if they want them or not? Who appoints the replacement? The manager?
If the manager is 100% responsible for the results, like they should be, they need to have 100% backing to give them the tools they need to do their jobs. Else sacking one and moving to the next one won't achieve anything in the long run.
I would add that the best number twos are those that support the number one. I would expect them to be learning from the mistakes and successes of the number ones they have served but they can't undermine them. JJ has probably come to the point where it is now or never. I don't know whether he has the qualities or not, but if I was Thomas with the help of some experienced ex pros, and there are quite a few on the payroll, I reckon I could find out. The same with Euell and a few others that may have ambitions in management.
In terms of CP, I agree that he wasn't a tactician, but he worked out what was wrong and set out to put it right and what he did in no time at all was one of the most impressive things I have seen a Charlton manager do. Curbs is the best manager I have seen us have, but he did it over a longer a period of time. Powell turned shit to gold in a window.
it’s not even October yet and the league table hasn’t taken shape yet. It’s a far from ideal start that we’ve had and we need a change to move up the table, but it’s far to early to suggest we, or any club in the bottom 7 are in a relegation scrap. Likewise, far to early to say Wimbledon are play off candidates.
I still think the CEO position is the one that most needs resolving personally.