The window was not great but it certainly wasn't "23rd in League One" bad. We can argue about whether it's auto/play-offs/whatever level but I don't think anyone would look at the squad and think it's current position is appropriate.
It does seem that there's something going on behind the scenes and while we can all speculate as to what and why it worries me more than the performances do currently, as it means that even if Adkins does go whoever comes in is going to be lumbered with the same issues.
(This is not an argument that Adkins should stay though, simply that I'm not convinced replacing him will fix the problems.)
I think we need a complete change of direction. Sandgaard is trying to run Charlton like a normal business but football is anything but. I believe Roddy is the wrong man for the job and he needs replacing with someone like Varney who knows how to run the club. Curbs should come in as director of football. Adkins and the coaching staff should be replaced with a young enthusiast manager with his own backroom staff. If that means JJ and Euell have to go so be it. And Sandgaard has to be on the front foot when the next summer transfer window comes around. Don't leave things until the last minute as a good pre season is imperative.
I was underwhelmed with Adkin's appointment. It was a hard one to get excited about but also difficult to argue that he didn't have bags of experience at this level, including promotion. So you could understand the logic behind it.
Whether he's been undermined by the management structure at the club and lack of investment might be a factor, but the simple truth is we are at our lowest point in the tables since God was a boy and this is unacceptable.
Some managers have a knack of producing teams at a club that are greater than the sum of its parts. Others are just a poor fit and produce the opposite. Decent enough bloke he may be but in our case it seems we have an example of the second.
We are 12 points off the top and 9 from the play offs as things stand. It's going to be a tough job to get back into contention under any manager but I just can't see Adkins turning this around and our best chance seems to be to act now rather than wait until that gap becomes completely out of reach.
On more than one occasion I've heard Adkins mention our KPI's (key performance indicator) into the post match musings.
I suspect a candidate that was prepared to throw the odd KPI into the interview was music to the purely business minded Thomas Sandgaards ear.
I'm not so sure it has the same effect on your bang average league one player?
I do wonder if after getting the boot from Southampton,Adkins went on a series of motivation and success in the workplace courses and has completely changed his management style.
There are plenty of reasons that the Adkins era isn't working. For me, he's been let down in the transfer window, told who his number two would be(a la Dowie) and the set up above him isn't quite right.
Not so sure he will get the sack ,it would appear Sandgaard doesn’t like paying out money for management or players. Glad to see the owner is over here for a longer stay this time.
Lots has to be sorted out in se7 and the side is not the main problem.
People still think this? Tommy has spent a lot of money for a league 1 team, unfortunately, it doesn’t look wisely spent at the moment
He has spent very little on management and Players .
That is what I said doesn’t like paying out money for management or players. Can not see him paying Adkins off and paying money out for new management from another club.
Not so sure he will get the sack ,it would appear Sandgaard doesn’t like paying out money for management or players. Glad to see the owner is over here for a longer stay this time.
Lots has to be sorted out in se7 and the side is not the main problem.
People still think this? Tommy has spent a lot of money for a league 1 team, unfortunately, it doesn’t look wisely spent at the moment
He has spent very little on management and Players .
That is what I said doesn’t like paying out money for management or players. Can not see him paying Adkins off and paying money out for new management from another club.
Simply not true.
We spent the most on transfer fees in the division.
4 games to turn this around before the next international break.
That would be the ideal time to bring someone in. They would have 10 -14 days to work with the players (minus Washington, Gunter & Arter - the last 2 might not feature much in the new managers plans anyway) and can assess who is who & what us what. Much better than bringing someone in now who has 3 games in a week to juggle.
The general feeling last season was that we were playing awful turgid football - we put it down to Bowyer and playing to Stockley- but maybe, just maybe... We actually have shite players. We retained a fair few and shock, we're still playing shite. Who in the team is a "baller" Kirk and Gilbey with Morgan sometimes?
Adkins should definitely be getting more out of them, but if it's like he's said about players not following instructions, players not playing how he wants then the blokes got no chance really. We've played some football in patches but revert to smash it to Stockley...
Honestly don't think he got the parts he wanted and needed in the window, but if the players aren't going to respond and play his way, then you gotta get someone in who will manage them to their level of ability.
I do think there are some excellent managers in league 1, due to the boom and bust nature of the championship. Could happily make a case for 5 or 6 managers in this division, all with different strengths.
I do think there are some excellent managers in league 1, due to the boom and bust nature of the championship. Could happily make a case for 5 or 6 managers in this division, all with different strengths.
This.
We could get a young manager, one who’d jump at the opportunity to manage us. Not another has been who’s been on a few corporate courses.
The general feeling last season was that we were playing awful turgid football - we put it down to Bowyer and playing to Stockley- but maybe, just maybe... We actually have shite players. We retained a fair few and shock, we're still playing shite. Who in the team is a "baller" Kirk and Gilbey with Morgan sometimes?
Adkins should definitely be getting more out of them, but if it's like he's said about players not following instructions, players not playing how he wants then the blokes got no chance really. We've played some football in patches but revert to smash it to Stockley...
Honestly don't think he got the parts he wanted and needed in the window, but if the players aren't going to respond and play his way, then you gotta get someone in who will manage them to their level of ability.
I believe so.
Lets be clear, we were shite under bowyer because he had Oshilaja and Pratley as his centre halves for a massive chunk of the season. He wasn’t without his faults, but he had excuses, Adkins hasn’t.
No club should sack its manager after seven games of the season.
100% agree. TS strikes me as an astute guy. That doesn't mean he's infallible or that he shouldn't make changes but it does mean he's someone who makes considered, not hasty decisions, especially in matters of business and investment. Every step he's made and every person he's engaged in his purchase and rebuilding (to date) of the Club underlines that IMO. It's why he's got where he has in business. Adkins' appointment would be no different. Things are patently not going to plan as yet but that happens, even to the best of managers and biggest of clubs (as Man Utd fans know) and the last thing I want to see is a hasty tearing up of Plan A and return to the revolving door, which we and all football fans know is a disaster. IMO Adkins should be given at least half of this season to show what he can do with this squad. That has to mean eventually challenging strongly for top 6, which may look a forlorn hope on form to date but I don't think that's beyond this squad and coaching team.
I’m not one for hastily sacking managers but did you watch Cheltenham and Wycombe? Serious question because if you did you would have seen some of the most inept football played by CAFC, possibly ever. And that was with two different formations involving most of the squad.
Some of the play yesterday looked sub amateur. There were long periods in both matches where the players looked utterly lost. No system or tactics, no game plan. If you want that for half a season, then you’ll also be getting League Two football next year into the bargain.
What do we want as fans? If we get rid of Adkins how long does the next manager get, 10 games? I dont like 6 changes in the team , and would like more than 4 shots in the 7 games. And yes the worse I've ever seen us. I might be on my own , but I dont agree with sacking a manager 2 games after the final squad has been put together. The problems bigger than Adkins.
Completely agree. Sacking Adkins won't solve it, the issues run deeper. I'd give him more time.
I have to say I’m coming round to the “Adkins Out” mindset despite the fact I have a feeling that he has been handed a weaker hand of cards than Guitar Boy gave him to expect. Thomas’s wording if his tweet last night “…puts us in a difficult position” reads quite ominously to me. I also think there must be some sort of disharmony at the senior management level that is destabilising things. But I am astounded that so many are calling him “yesterday’s man” at the same time as calling for the return of Curbs. Much as I love the latter and am grateful for all he did. His role should now be the one he has - entertaining us all from the sidelines. I do wonder how much credibility Nigel has with the players. We only get to hear his happy clappy stuff once in a while. The players presumably get it full on every day. I can’t believe they take him seriously.
Its a nonsense he is on Charlton TV every week. No manager would be happy with a former great manager of the club passing judgement on the current team on a platform run by the club.
I think Curbs is pretty diplomatic. It is hard not to be critical when you see complete rubbish. The thing is, Curbs looks in a good place and I would be amazed if he wanted to get into football management again at this stage of his life. As he is on the payroll, Sandgaard should absolutely use his knowledge though.
Curbs is a gentleman and not the type to rock the boat but no matter would be happy with it.
I agree Curbs is not looking to get back into Management.
If it was me I would not only sack Adkins, Roddy would go as well and Curbs would be the advisor on how to rebuild this club. And for everyone who says he has been out if the game too long at least when he was in the game he achieved a lot. What exactly inside the game has Ged Roddy ever achieved.
For the record, Scott Minto asked Curbs outright whether he'd be interested in the job when Bowyer left Curbs replied that he'd definitely consider it. So unless he's changed his mind in the past 6 months or so, I think he'd be tempted, if asked.
I think we looked better in pre-season, sometimes against better opposition, than in the league season so far. The press in defence and attack was constant, faster, harder and the shape was obvious.
In other words, my opinion is that the coaching set up is there.
So, what’s the problem? For what it’s worth, I think all of the late and very late signings have taken us back to the start of pre-season, with less time available on the training pitch than we had in the summer to instil the way our coaching team (it’s not just NA though the buck stops with him) wants to play. Add to that a few of our new signings not yet being fully fit and you’ve got a real headache to solve, which is evidenced by the general poor performances with glimpses of what we can do in the games so far.
If Adkins is going to save his job, he/JJ/JE really do need to instil the basics back into the side, inclusive of demanding Famewo or any other centre half do not believe they are Cafu by asking them to stop trying some mazy runs only to give the ball away and put us in trouble in games. That has happened a number of times this season. The midfield should be passing forward when on the attacking press, never back all the way to the CBs and GK like they have been doing. Reserve that for when they nick the ball off the oppo when they are attacking and we need to get some relief from going backwards. Measure this by KPIs if they have to, but look for a high percentage ratio of passes to Stockley’s (who remains a very good footballer at this level) feet, rather than his head. I really think that will help with more measured build up play.
Lots of work for the whole management team to do on the training ground this week and not too many days to play with, but I wish them the best of luck and hope we can get two wins on the bounce no matter how they arrive. Another week for the players to get used to the style and set up after all… That said, this time next week will be a whole different ball game if we are pointless from those games!
Thomas has put enough money into the club,if he sacks Adkins,I presume that will involve a hefty pay off,along with hiring another manager with no guarantee off improvement.Someone in the know ,must have suggested Adkins to Thomas as I dont know how he could have heard of him with his limited knowledge of English football.Clearly it is not working,and to be honest it is getting worse,maybe too many conflicting opinions going on behind the scenes,but The team selections are mystifying.Did we need to make 6 changes yesterday,thats over half of the outfield team,maybe find a place for Papa,Blackett -Taylor and Arter,but 6 ,its too many,along with the total change in system.
Maybe he's waiting for the sack, having been (like us) told a load of crap by Sandgaard.
I wonder if that is the case and he's after a pay off. Hope not but who knows
Seriously would you make yourself unemployed ? Sandgaard has to sack him or come to some agreement (same thing really)
Yes.
I've got dignity & pride. I couldn't stand on the touchline & hear the fans boo, jeer, call for my head & openly chant for my assistant to replace me.....and then still stay in my job.
I'd resign......but then I'd bloody go to town on why the last 4 months have been such a shit show. If the recruitment wasn't what I was led to believe it would be I''d bloody well say so.
Why would you resign 6 months into a 2 and a half year contract and lose your pay off?
If we win 5-0 at the Gills on Tuesday then what? Nigel is king?!
People are so quick to rush through divorce in this age.
At least give him 10 games!! (3 to go! Phew!)
So give him till the end of the month then. It hasn’t been terrible this season, but even if we do a job on Tuesday (this isn’t going to be false sense of belief-we had that against Cheltenham. At least got to get 5 points in the next three games to give us belief that we can do something this season.
If we dicked by Gillingham, what makes you think we'd then fare any better against Pompey and Bolton who are much better sides?
The only benefit i can see in giving him until the end of the month is that there is then another international break so if he's going to be fired and we act fast in hiring a new manager it then gives the new guy 2 weeks (assuming we get enough call ups) to prepare for a game instead of the current 3-4 days between games.
Well we have three games till the end of the month don’t we. 5 points means (1 win and 2 draws, as you say Bolton and Pompey are going to be tough). That my measurement to install my faith back in Atkins again- not a prediction. If we loose any of them Atkins is on thin ice going into the the final few months (of the calendar year) for me.
It's concerning that Adkins said he'd told the players to play through Wycombe and not lump it. In a Bowyer side you could tell when they'd been told to pass from the back because they would do it nearly every time. When we went to the championship with a side that wasn't great, we went long nearly every time and you could tell they'd been told to do it.
If Adkins is seriously telling the players not to go route one then why have they been ignoring him all season? Surely that's the managers fault for not imposing his style/tactics. He's telling us he wants to play one way and we're playing another. That's my biggest concern at the moment.
Personally I want him out before pompey. We've not improved at all over 7 games.
Adkins takes the flak and rightly so because he is The Manager, and yes, I feel for him at the moment, we are shite on the field, but ffs the players are not kids mucking about in the playground, they are professional footballers who know the game and what is needed, they are very much equally to blame for our lowest position achieved I believe, but they are sitting pretty on very nice contracts thank you, so...Adkins will ultimately be gone sooner rather than later, and in comes another to "save the club". Thomas must be pulling his hair out at the moment seeing his investment slowly going down the drain, he must act decisively and he must act now before the whole season is gone..Prem in 5 years, your 'aving a larf mate
Whatever has got us to this point there needs to be a real measurable shift right now. As I say I like Adkins and recognise in him a decent man, but I was deeply troubled coming home from the Cheltenham game and yesterday was shocking. A manager is supposed to deploy what resources he or she has available to best effect. He talked of looking at the video of last week, he talks of team selection according to the opposition, he talks of hard work and a positive attitude, none of it is working. Nigel also talks of a pathway for players and coaches, well Nigel is now the time for you to step aside and leave that pathway clear for Jason Euell, or maybe Jackson?
I would like to see analysis for the last few seasons showing games when we have won the majority of second balls. I suspect the stat would be telling.
Had time to sleep on the game yesterday (although only going on audio commentary), and last night I was for, sadly, letting Adkins go. However on reflection I'm thinking that we should hold 'fire' for a few more games. The reason is, he has only had two games with this complete squad and I agree it has been worse than dire, but who would step in before Tuesday.... JJ/JE, they might be part of the problem? People calling for Wilder I can understand, but we need to be realistic he won't come to us where we currently sit (if at all), he'll have his sights set on something much higher. People saying TS should throw money at him (Wilder), I've seen elsewhere TS should offer him £1m so he would come, but there are no guarantees in football and its not their money! So let's give Adkins a few more games, he must know changing to 442 is our best option and if, as he has hinted at, he drops Stockley to stop the long ball shit and plays Washington/Leko in a two up top with CBT and Kirk on either flank of a midfield 4 with Arter/Dobson and Lee as the centre two in front of Soure, Famewo, Lavelle and Matthews, then that should be at least a team that can cause the opposition problems. He can change it up with the likes of DJ, Kirk, Morgan, Clare, Davison on the bench. This squad IS good enough to be far away from where we currently sit, but lets get back to basics...442, and stop tinkering all the time with personel and formations, play to our strengths not set up to always negate the opposition, get a couple of wins and build some confidence, its desperately needed. If it all goes wrong from that kind of setup then it's time to move him on, so for me, give him 4 more games and lets see what he can do. I know my opinion won't be liked by many, but we've seen in the past how knee jerk reactions can come back and bite and as a ST holder I'm craving for some fight, passion and good football, but we need to get confidence back in the team first and a simple 442 should help do that!!
Maybe he's waiting for the sack, having been (like us) told a load of crap by Sandgaard.
I wonder if that is the case and he's after a pay off. Hope not but who knows
Seriously would you make yourself unemployed ? Sandgaard has to sack him or come to some agreement (same thing really)
Yes.
I've got dignity & pride. I couldn't stand on the touchline & hear the fans boo, jeer, call for my head & openly chant for my assistant to replace me.....and then still stay in my job.
I'd resign......but then I'd bloody go to town on why the last 4 months have been such a shit show. If the recruitment wasn't what I was led to believe it would be I''d bloody well say so.
Yeah and I’d knock Tyson Fury out if he started on me.
I do not know anything about you in the slightest. But you wouldn’t do that, you would not walk away from shit loads of cash for “dignity and pride” with the chance that you’ll never get a decent job again. This is real life not a Hollywood film.
The fact is, Adkins has a few more games. The voices calling for him to go have started which is completely understandable. He has to sort it out and change things.
It's not the result that are bothering me, as this league can turn around very quickly.. It is our style of play, and manner. We just look like a side that doesn't know how, or what style or formation we should be playing.. I am not sure he can give a kick up the a$#e either.
For me, I think we need a change now.. I can't see it turning around.
I think we need a complete change of direction. Sandgaard is trying to run Charlton like a normal business but football is anything but. I believe Roddy is the wrong man for the job and he needs replacing with someone like Varney who knows how to run the club. Curbs should come in as director of football. Adkins and the coaching staff should be replaced with a young enthusiast manager with his own backroom staff. If that means JJ and Euell have to go so be it. And Sandgaard has to be on the front foot when the next summer transfer window comes around. Don't leave things until the last minute as a good pre season is imperative.
I think this is roughly where I am too.
Not too sure about about Curbs, but the conventional (experienced) CEO and manager set up, with the manager making, and answerable to, his own decisions.
As it is at the moment, there's about 6 seperate entities, or a combination of some or all, that could be causing the problem. But, because it's so clouded, I think it's adding to the problem.
Comments
It does seem that there's something going on behind the scenes and while we can all speculate as to what and why it worries me more than the performances do currently, as it means that even if Adkins does go whoever comes in is going to be lumbered with the same issues.
(This is not an argument that Adkins should stay though, simply that I'm not convinced replacing him will fix the problems.)
Sandgaard is trying to run Charlton like a normal business but football is anything but.
I believe Roddy is the wrong man for the job and he needs replacing with someone like Varney who knows how to run the club.
Curbs should come in as director of football.
Adkins and the coaching staff should be replaced with a young enthusiast manager with his own backroom staff.
If that means JJ and Euell have to go so be it.
And Sandgaard has to be on the front foot when the next summer transfer window comes around.
Don't leave things until the last minute as a good pre season is imperative.
Whether he's been undermined by the management structure at the club and lack of investment might be a factor, but the simple truth is we are at our lowest point in the tables since God was a boy and this is unacceptable.
Some managers have a knack of producing teams at a club that are greater than the sum of its parts. Others are just a poor fit and produce the opposite. Decent enough bloke he may be but in our case it seems we have an example of the second.
We are 12 points off the top and 9 from the play offs as things stand. It's going to be a tough job to get back into contention under any manager but I just can't see Adkins turning this around and our best chance seems to be to act now rather than wait until that gap becomes completely out of reach.
I suspect a candidate that was prepared to throw the odd KPI into the interview was music to the purely business minded Thomas Sandgaards ear.
I'm not so sure it has the same effect on your bang average league one player?
I do wonder if after getting the boot from Southampton,Adkins went on a series of motivation and success in the workplace courses and has completely changed his management style.
There are plenty of reasons that the Adkins era isn't working.
For me, he's been let down in the transfer window, told who his number two would be(a la Dowie) and the set up above him isn't quite right.
The general feeling last season was that we were playing awful turgid football - we put it down to Bowyer and playing to Stockley- but maybe, just maybe... We actually have shite players. We retained a fair few and shock, we're still playing shite. Who in the team is a "baller" Kirk and Gilbey with Morgan sometimes?
Adkins should definitely be getting more out of them, but if it's like he's said about players not following instructions, players not playing how he wants then the blokes got no chance really. We've played some football in patches but revert to smash it to Stockley...
Honestly don't think he got the parts he wanted and needed in the window, but if the players aren't going to respond and play his way, then you gotta get someone in who will manage them to their level of ability.
We could get a young manager, one who’d jump at the opportunity to manage us. Not another has been who’s been on a few corporate courses.
Lets be clear, we were shite under bowyer because he had Oshilaja and Pratley as his centre halves for a massive chunk of the season. He wasn’t without his faults, but he had excuses, Adkins hasn’t.
Curbs replied that he'd definitely consider it.
So unless he's changed his mind in the past 6 months or so, I think he'd be tempted, if asked.
it’s the fact that Watson, gunter, Clare, Dobson are here is the problem. Pratley would be added to that list if he were.
In other words, my opinion is that the coaching set up is there.
So, what’s the problem? For what it’s worth, I think all of the late and very late signings have taken us back to the start of pre-season, with less time available on the training pitch than we had in the summer to instil the way our coaching team (it’s not just NA though the buck stops with him) wants to play. Add to that a few of our new signings not yet being fully fit and you’ve got a real headache to solve, which is evidenced by the general poor performances with glimpses of what we can do in the games so far.
If Adkins is going to save his job, he/JJ/JE really do need to instil the basics back into the side, inclusive of demanding Famewo or any other centre half do not believe they are Cafu by asking them to stop trying some mazy runs only to give the ball away and put us in trouble in games. That has happened a number of times this season. The midfield should be passing forward when on the attacking press, never back all the way to the CBs and GK like they have been doing. Reserve that for when they nick the ball off the oppo when they are attacking and we need to get some relief from going backwards. Measure this by KPIs if they have to, but look for a high percentage ratio of passes to Stockley’s (who remains a very good footballer at this level) feet, rather than his head. I really think that will help with more measured build up play.
Lots of work for the whole management team to do on the training ground this week and not too many days to play with, but I wish them the best of luck and hope we can get two wins on the bounce no matter how they arrive. Another week for the players to get used to the style and set up after all… That said, this time next week will be a whole different ball game if we are pointless from those games!
If Adkins is seriously telling the players not to go route one then why have they been ignoring him all season? Surely that's the managers fault for not imposing his style/tactics. He's telling us he wants to play one way and we're playing another. That's my biggest concern at the moment.
Personally I want him out before pompey. We've not improved at all over 7 games.
Thomas must be pulling his hair out at the moment seeing his investment slowly going down the drain, he must act decisively and he must act now before the whole season is gone..Prem in 5 years, your 'aving a larf mate
A manager is supposed to deploy what resources he or she has available to best effect. He talked of looking at the video of last week, he talks of team selection according to the opposition, he talks of hard work and a positive attitude, none of it is working.
Nigel also talks of a pathway for players and coaches, well Nigel is now the time for you to step aside and leave that pathway clear for Jason Euell, or maybe Jackson?
People calling for Wilder I can understand, but we need to be realistic he won't come to us where we currently sit (if at all), he'll have his sights set on something much higher. People saying TS should throw money at him (Wilder), I've seen elsewhere TS should offer him £1m so he would come, but there are no guarantees in football and its not their money!
So let's give Adkins a few more games, he must know changing to 442 is our best option and if, as he has hinted at, he drops Stockley to stop the long ball shit and plays Washington/Leko in a two up top with CBT and Kirk on either flank of a midfield 4 with Arter/Dobson and Lee as the centre two in front of Soure, Famewo, Lavelle and Matthews, then that should be at least a team that can cause the opposition problems. He can change it up with the likes of DJ, Kirk, Morgan, Clare, Davison on the bench.
This squad IS good enough to be far away from where we currently sit, but lets get back to basics...442, and stop tinkering all the time with personel and formations, play to our strengths not set up to always negate the opposition, get a couple of wins and build some confidence, its desperately needed.
If it all goes wrong from that kind of setup then it's time to move him on, so for me, give him 4 more games and lets see what he can do.
I know my opinion won't be liked by many, but we've seen in the past how knee jerk reactions can come back and bite and as a ST holder I'm craving for some fight, passion and good football, but we need to get confidence back in the team first and a simple 442 should help do that!!
For me, I think we need a change now.. I can't see it turning around.
Not too sure about about Curbs, but the conventional (experienced) CEO and manager set up, with the manager making, and answerable to, his own decisions.
As it is at the moment, there's about 6 seperate entities, or a combination of some or all, that could be causing the problem. But, because it's so clouded, I think it's adding to the problem.
Sandgaard?
Roddy?
Gallen?
Adkins?
JJ & Euell?
The players?