Really don't know what to think about this one. If he's half the player he was for Bournemouth he should boss every game and would be a great signing. But his career seems to have been in a pretty steep decline since leaving Fulham.
He was an absolute card magnet in his younger years and with the standard of ref in this league he needs to "curb his enthusiasm" so to speak or he'll be suspended more than he plays.
Yeah, so it turned out he was nowhere near even half they player he used to be.
Oh well, best thing for all parties for him to try his luck elsewhere.
Strange that he declined so quickly, as I'm not aware of major injuries
Forest have him a 3 year contract, so still got 18 months left...
Shame really. Seemed a logical signing when Dobson wasn't getting time under Adkins but never really found fitness. I think it was Fleetwood where he looked strong and committed but as soon as Dobson came back in there was no way back for Arter. He's not cheap to keep around so it made no sense to keep him in reserve. That's a decent chunk off the wage bill so hopefully we can go in for Wiredu now and get a younger, fitter player for less money
Makes it Sound as if Arter made the move back happen - rather than the club
Agreed
The experienced midfielder joined the Addicks in August and has taken up the option to return to Forest.
I had been wondering whether we had a clause to terminate the loan, I hadn't realised the player would have one.
Better to not be playing in the Championship than not playing in League One. I wonder if they'll loan him out to another club. Knowing our luck he'll come back and score against us before the season ends.
Shame really. Seemed a logical signing when Dobson wasn't getting time under Adkins but never really found fitness. I think it was Fleetwood where he looked strong and committed but as soon as Dobson came back in there was no way back for Arter. He's not cheap to keep around so it made no sense to keep him in reserve. That's a decent chunk off the wage bill so hopefully we can go in for Wiredu now and get a younger, fitter player for less money
I know many people have trashed Arter, but he's been a victim of circumstance as much as anything ..... change of manager, change of gameplan, etc.
Like several summer signings, Arter came to us lacking match fitness. To be fair, he probably just needed to play games.
But as you say, he never really got that chance after the emergence of Dobson.
Shame really. Seemed a logical signing when Dobson wasn't getting time under Adkins but never really found fitness. I think it was Fleetwood where he looked strong and committed but as soon as Dobson came back in there was no way back for Arter. He's not cheap to keep around so it made no sense to keep him in reserve. That's a decent chunk off the wage bill so hopefully we can go in for Wiredu now and get a younger, fitter player for less money
I know many people have trashed Arter, but he's been a victim of circumstance as much as anything ..... change of manager, change of gameplan, etc.
Like several summer signings, Arter came to us lacking match fitness. To be fair, he probably just needed to play games.
But as you say, he never really got that chance after the emergence of Dobson.
Yeah he clearly struggled with fitness and then as he was starting to get going, he picked up a niggling injury/injuries. He did have a couple games where he bossed things and looked our best player. But he couldn't sustain it. Even if his legs ate going, he had the technical ability and range of passing to be effective at this level, but with Jacko coming in and wanting more mobility and more pressing from his entire team, let alone his midfield, Arter at this stage of his career was never likely to be a good fit.
To those saying this is a sign of our bad summer window I think are being hyperbolic. It was a punt, yes, but we're in League One having to build a squad in one transfer window. A player with good pedigree who is high risk but high reward is the type of player you can take a chance on. And to be fair, in Watson, Dobson, Clare, and Gilbey we have good coverage in the 4 and 8 roles which means that if Arter works out and is a class above, then great, you have a player who likely bosses things in L1. But if not, you have cover.
Best of luck to him. Hope he finds some more success somewhere, he was a delight to watch in that Bournemouth midfield in the Prem.
Shame really. Seemed a logical signing when Dobson wasn't getting time under Adkins but never really found fitness. I think it was Fleetwood where he looked strong and committed but as soon as Dobson came back in there was no way back for Arter. He's not cheap to keep around so it made no sense to keep him in reserve. That's a decent chunk off the wage bill so hopefully we can go in for Wiredu now and get a younger, fitter player for less money
I know many people have trashed Arter, but he's been a victim of circumstance as much as anything ..... change of manager, change of gameplan, etc.
Like several summer signings, Arter came to us lacking match fitness. To be fair, he probably just needed to play games.
But as you say, he never really got that chance after the emergence of Dobson.
Yeah he clearly struggled with fitness and then as he was starting to get going, he picked up a niggling injury/injuries. He did have a couple games where he bossed things and looked our best player. But he couldn't sustain it. Even if his legs ate going, he had the technical ability and range of passing to be effective at this level, but with Jacko coming in and wanting more mobility and more pressing from his entire team, let alone his midfield, Arter at this stage of his career was never likely to be a good fit.
To those saying this is a sign of our bad summer window I think are being hyperbolic. It was a punt, yes, but we're in League One having to build a squad in one transfer window. A player with good pedigree who is high risk but high reward is the type of player you can take a chance on. And to be fair, in Watson, Dobson, Clare, and Gilbey we have good coverage in the 4 and 8 roles which means that if Arter works out and is a class above, then great, you have a player who likely bosses things in L1. But if not, you have cover.
Best of luck to him. Hope he finds some more success somewhere, he was a delight to watch in that Bournemouth midfield in the Prem.
That's exactly why our summer business was so bad. It was not good enough, quick enough. We ended up with too many players that weren't fit enough.
We chucked the first 4 games because the team wasn't good enough, then we had to have preseason during the season.
We might have got away with it if Inniss, Gilbey and Purrington were fit, they weren't, we knew that weeks before the season started.
Shame really. Seemed a logical signing when Dobson wasn't getting time under Adkins but never really found fitness. I think it was Fleetwood where he looked strong and committed but as soon as Dobson came back in there was no way back for Arter. He's not cheap to keep around so it made no sense to keep him in reserve. That's a decent chunk off the wage bill so hopefully we can go in for Wiredu now and get a younger, fitter player for less money
I know many people have trashed Arter, but he's been a victim of circumstance as much as anything ..... change of manager, change of gameplan, etc.
Like several summer signings, Arter came to us lacking match fitness. To be fair, he probably just needed to play games.
But as you say, he never really got that chance after the emergence of Dobson.
Yeah he clearly struggled with fitness and then as he was starting to get going, he picked up a niggling injury/injuries. He did have a couple games where he bossed things and looked our best player. But he couldn't sustain it. Even if his legs ate going, he had the technical ability and range of passing to be effective at this level, but with Jacko coming in and wanting more mobility and more pressing from his entire team, let alone his midfield, Arter at this stage of his career was never likely to be a good fit.
To those saying this is a sign of our bad summer window I think are being hyperbolic. It was a punt, yes, but we're in League One having to build a squad in one transfer window. A player with good pedigree who is high risk but high reward is the type of player you can take a chance on. And to be fair, in Watson, Dobson, Clare, and Gilbey we have good coverage in the 4 and 8 roles which means that if Arter works out and is a class above, then great, you have a player who likely bosses things in L1. But if not, you have cover.
Best of luck to him. Hope he finds some more success somewhere, he was a delight to watch in that Bournemouth midfield in the Prem.
That's exactly why our summer business was so bad. It was not good enough, quick enough. We ended up with too many players that weren't fit enough.
We chucked the first 4 games because the team wasn't good enough, then we had to have preseason during the season.
We might have got away with it if Inniss, Gilbey and Purrington were fit, they weren't, we knew that weeks before the season started.
I was surprised when I heard that we were looking for unfit players that were were not good enough, and totally shocked when I heard that they were off down the pub as there was no rush and pre season was overrated. The most worrying thing is that if it had not been for injuries they would have got away with it.
Would have been more of a presence in the match day squad if not for the progress of George Dobson.
Thought he was fantastic at Fleetwood but then got injured and was never getting back in the team in the holding role over one of our own, much younger, players.
He was as about as useful as me to the team but I wouldn’t have been cheaper. I know some loans have worked out for us in the past but I mostly get the impression that loan players always have their eyes elsewhere.
Quite frankly, an awful signing. Stop these 'Big fish' signings. They don't work.
No disrespect to Harry Arter, but doubt he's ever been described as a big fish. I accept a lot more was expected of him, but his career was obviously on the way down.
Shame really. Seemed a logical signing when Dobson wasn't getting time under Adkins but never really found fitness. I think it was Fleetwood where he looked strong and committed but as soon as Dobson came back in there was no way back for Arter. He's not cheap to keep around so it made no sense to keep him in reserve. That's a decent chunk off the wage bill so hopefully we can go in for Wiredu now and get a younger, fitter player for less money
I know many people have trashed Arter, but he's been a victim of circumstance as much as anything ..... change of manager, change of gameplan, etc.
Like several summer signings, Arter came to us lacking match fitness. To be fair, he probably just needed to play games.
But as you say, he never really got that chance after the emergence of Dobson.
Yeah he clearly struggled with fitness and then as he was starting to get going, he picked up a niggling injury/injuries. He did have a couple games where he bossed things and looked our best player. But he couldn't sustain it. Even if his legs ate going, he had the technical ability and range of passing to be effective at this level, but with Jacko coming in and wanting more mobility and more pressing from his entire team, let alone his midfield, Arter at this stage of his career was never likely to be a good fit.
To those saying this is a sign of our bad summer window I think are being hyperbolic. It was a punt, yes, but we're in League One having to build a squad in one transfer window. A player with good pedigree who is high risk but high reward is the type of player you can take a chance on. And to be fair, in Watson, Dobson, Clare, and Gilbey we have good coverage in the 4 and 8 roles which means that if Arter works out and is a class above, then great, you have a player who likely bosses things in L1. But if not, you have cover.
Best of luck to him. Hope he finds some more success somewhere, he was a delight to watch in that Bournemouth midfield in the Prem.
That's exactly why our summer business was so bad. It was not good enough, quick enough. We ended up with too many players that weren't fit enough.
We chucked the first 4 games because the team wasn't good enough, then we had to have preseason during the season.
We might have got away with it if Inniss, Gilbey and Purrington were fit, they weren't, we knew that weeks before the season started.
I was surprised when I heard that we were looking for unfit players that were were not good enough, and totally shocked when I heard that they were off down the pub as there was no rush and pre season was overrated. The most worrying thing is that if it had not been for injuries they would have got away with it.
I would like to think it wasn't deliberately done, but that's what ended up happening. Or do you honestly think the recruitment was good enough to give us a chance form the off?
Shame really. Seemed a logical signing when Dobson wasn't getting time under Adkins but never really found fitness. I think it was Fleetwood where he looked strong and committed but as soon as Dobson came back in there was no way back for Arter. He's not cheap to keep around so it made no sense to keep him in reserve. That's a decent chunk off the wage bill so hopefully we can go in for Wiredu now and get a younger, fitter player for less money
I know many people have trashed Arter, but he's been a victim of circumstance as much as anything ..... change of manager, change of gameplan, etc.
Like several summer signings, Arter came to us lacking match fitness. To be fair, he probably just needed to play games.
But as you say, he never really got that chance after the emergence of Dobson.
Yeah he clearly struggled with fitness and then as he was starting to get going, he picked up a niggling injury/injuries. He did have a couple games where he bossed things and looked our best player. But he couldn't sustain it. Even if his legs ate going, he had the technical ability and range of passing to be effective at this level, but with Jacko coming in and wanting more mobility and more pressing from his entire team, let alone his midfield, Arter at this stage of his career was never likely to be a good fit.
To those saying this is a sign of our bad summer window I think are being hyperbolic. It was a punt, yes, but we're in League One having to build a squad in one transfer window. A player with good pedigree who is high risk but high reward is the type of player you can take a chance on. And to be fair, in Watson, Dobson, Clare, and Gilbey we have good coverage in the 4 and 8 roles which means that if Arter works out and is a class above, then great, you have a player who likely bosses things in L1. But if not, you have cover.
Best of luck to him. Hope he finds some more success somewhere, he was a delight to watch in that Bournemouth midfield in the Prem.
That's exactly why our summer business was so bad. It was not good enough, quick enough. We ended up with too many players that weren't fit enough.
We chucked the first 4 games because the team wasn't good enough, then we had to have preseason during the season.
We might have got away with it if Inniss, Gilbey and Purrington were fit, they weren't, we knew that weeks before the season started.
I was surprised when I heard that we were looking for unfit players that were were not good enough, and totally shocked when I heard that they were off down the pub as there was no rush and pre season was overrated. The most worrying thing is that if it had not been for injuries they would have got away with it.
I would like to think it wasn't deliberately done, but that's what ended up happening. Or do you honestly think the recruitment was good enough to give us a chance form the off?
I remain unconvinced that the physical fitness was ever QUITE as big an issue as we thought, compared to issues with the coaching and leadership from Adkins.
Not that it wasn't an issue at all, but the exact same players all looked 10 times fitter and more capable after less than a week with Jackson's coaching. For that to happen across the board as it did says to me that the problem was at least partially a mental one.
I was excited by Arter signing, thought he would add some quality to the midfield and be a nice break from the pain of watching the Watson and Pratley partnership last season. After playing in the prem for so long and only being 31 when he signed, thought he'd have a lot to offer in this crappy league. There was a picture of him celebrating an away victory he played in (can't remember against who) and he looked really up for it. Strange how it turned out but we'll continue to make some signings that work out and some that don't.
This wasn’t a surprise to me as my many Fulham season ticket holding mates all said his legs and gone 2/3 seasons ago.
I wonder why the Black Box didn’t pick up on that when they did?
But even then I didn’t think it would go as bad as it actually has. Should have spent the money and gone back in for Dempsey
I doubt Arter was a black box signing. More a relatively big name who became available and we took a chance on him. Same with Souare. Leko another that likely wasn’t from the black box as we had loaned him before.
If that’s the case and the black box identified Dobson and Clare maybe we should use it for all our signings…
Shame really. Seemed a logical signing when Dobson wasn't getting time under Adkins but never really found fitness. I think it was Fleetwood where he looked strong and committed but as soon as Dobson came back in there was no way back for Arter. He's not cheap to keep around so it made no sense to keep him in reserve. That's a decent chunk off the wage bill so hopefully we can go in for Wiredu now and get a younger, fitter player for less money
I know many people have trashed Arter, but he's been a victim of circumstance as much as anything ..... change of manager, change of gameplan, etc.
Like several summer signings, Arter came to us lacking match fitness. To be fair, he probably just needed to play games.
But as you say, he never really got that chance after the emergence of Dobson.
Yeah he clearly struggled with fitness and then as he was starting to get going, he picked up a niggling injury/injuries. He did have a couple games where he bossed things and looked our best player. But he couldn't sustain it. Even if his legs ate going, he had the technical ability and range of passing to be effective at this level, but with Jacko coming in and wanting more mobility and more pressing from his entire team, let alone his midfield, Arter at this stage of his career was never likely to be a good fit.
To those saying this is a sign of our bad summer window I think are being hyperbolic. It was a punt, yes, but we're in League One having to build a squad in one transfer window. A player with good pedigree who is high risk but high reward is the type of player you can take a chance on. And to be fair, in Watson, Dobson, Clare, and Gilbey we have good coverage in the 4 and 8 roles which means that if Arter works out and is a class above, then great, you have a player who likely bosses things in L1. But if not, you have cover.
Best of luck to him. Hope he finds some more success somewhere, he was a delight to watch in that Bournemouth midfield in the Prem.
That's exactly why our summer business was so bad. It was not good enough, quick enough. We ended up with too many players that weren't fit enough.
We chucked the first 4 games because the team wasn't good enough, then we had to have preseason during the season.
We might have got away with it if Inniss, Gilbey and Purrington were fit, they weren't, we knew that weeks before the season started.
I was surprised when I heard that we were looking for unfit players that were were not good enough, and totally shocked when I heard that they were off down the pub as there was no rush and pre season was overrated. The most worrying thing is that if it had not been for injuries they would have got away with it.
I would like to think it wasn't deliberately done, but that's what ended up happening. Or do you honestly think the recruitment was good enough to give us a chance form the off?
I remain unconvinced that the physical fitness was ever QUITE as big an issue as we thought, compared to issues with the coaching and leadership from Adkins.
Not that it wasn't an issue at all, but the exact same players all looked 10 times fitter and more capable after less than a week with Jackson's coaching. For that to happen across the board as it did says to me that the problem was at least partially a mental one.
The "fitness issues" highlighted in the Bolton and Accrington games wasn't as much of an issue as we all thought at the time because there is no way they just suddenly got fit in 48 hours. That was players not playing for the manager, each other or what ever else.
However prior to that CBT, Leko, Arter, Sourse, Lee weren't because they hadn't been playing and Gilbey and Purrington needed "minutes". Even Watson didn't have a preseason and we only had 3 fit midfielders, including him, at one stage.
Any manager would have struggled in the first 7 or 8 games. We could have and should have turned it round quicker. We didn't. That's why Adkins lost his job.
This wasn’t a surprise to me as my many Fulham season ticket holding mates all said his legs and gone 2/3 seasons ago.
I wonder why the Black Box didn’t pick up on that when they did?
But even then I didn’t think it would go as bad as it actually has. Should have spent the money and gone back in for Dempsey
I doubt Arter was a black box signing. More a relatively big name who became available and we took a chance on him. Same with Souare. Leko another that likely wasn’t from the black box as we had loaned him before.
If that’s the case and the black box identified Dobson and Clare maybe we should use it for all our signings…
i think you're right but i also think the term 'black box' is wrong - aren't they normally used to identify what went wrong after a disaster - i bet TS has been trying to identify how his money rather than Forest's has been transferred into Arter's pocket over the last 5 months.
This wasn’t a surprise to me as my many Fulham season ticket holding mates all said his legs and gone 2/3 seasons ago.
I wonder why the Black Box didn’t pick up on that when they did?
But even then I didn’t think it would go as bad as it actually has. Should have spent the money and gone back in for Dempsey
I doubt Arter was a black box signing. More a relatively big name who became available and we took a chance on him. Same with Souare. Leko another that likely wasn’t from the black box as we had loaned him before.
If that’s the case and the black box identified Dobson and Clare maybe we should use it for all our signings…
It would be good to clarify this then as why are some signings through the box and some not. Surely the criteria should be the same for all signings? especially if all the assumed non-box signings have been total flops so. Where does Charlie Kirk fit in then is he box or non-box signing?
It all sounds like PR nonsense to me anyway - to make us sound more fancy than we actually are.
This wasn’t a surprise to me as my many Fulham season ticket holding mates all said his legs and gone 2/3 seasons ago.
I wonder why the Black Box didn’t pick up on that when they did?
But even then I didn’t think it would go as bad as it actually has. Should have spent the money and gone back in for Dempsey
I doubt Arter was a black box signing. More a relatively big name who became available and we took a chance on him. Same with Souare. Leko another that likely wasn’t from the black box as we had loaned him before.
If that’s the case and the black box identified Dobson and Clare maybe we should use it for all our signings… Can't we just paint the Black box another colour, whats coming out of it ain't good!
This wasn’t a surprise to me as my many Fulham season ticket holding mates all said his legs and gone 2/3 seasons ago.
I wonder why the Black Box didn’t pick up on that when they did?
But even then I didn’t think it would go as bad as it actually has. Should have spent the money and gone back in for Dempsey
I doubt Arter was a black box signing. More a relatively big name who became available and we took a chance on him. Same with Souare. Leko another that likely wasn’t from the black box as we had loaned him before.
If that’s the case and the black box identified Dobson and Clare maybe we should use it for all our signings…
Where does Charlie Kirk fit in then is he box or non-box signing?
He never seems to get in the box ..... therefor, a non-box signing.
This wasn’t a surprise to me as my many Fulham season ticket holding mates all said his legs and gone 2/3 seasons ago.
I wonder why the Black Box didn’t pick up on that when they did?
But even then I didn’t think it would go as bad as it actually has. Should have spent the money and gone back in for Dempsey
I doubt Arter was a black box signing. More a relatively big name who became available and we took a chance on him. Same with Souare. Leko another that likely wasn’t from the black box as we had loaned him before.
If that’s the case and the black box identified Dobson and Clare maybe we should use it for all our signings…
It would be good to clarify this then as why are some signings through the box and some not. Surely the criteria should be the same for all signings? especially if all the assumed non-box signings have been total flops so. Where does Charlie Kirk fit in then is he box or non-box signing?
It all sounds like PR nonsense to me anyway - to make us sound more fancy than we actually are.
You’d hope so, my guess is we got desperate at the end of the window and gambled on Arter and Souare.
How can they have reliable stats in the black box considering how little game time they’ve had in the last couple of years? If they’re using data from earlier seasons than that’s naive - if either were the player they used to be they wouldn’t have dropped down to L1.
You’d expect all pro clubs to be using data to support traditional scouting. The challenge is being better at both methods than the rest.
Hopefully lessons have been learnt. TS may have realised spending that bit more on a proven L1 player like Dempsey is ultimately cheaper than continually wasting money on the way down like Watson, Gunter, Arter etc.
Comments
Forest have him a 3 year contract, so still got 18 months left...
Please no more signings like Arter, Watson, Gunter etc. Too many players without the legs and/or drive to properly compete at this level.
Like several summer signings, Arter came to us lacking match fitness.
To be fair, he probably just needed to play games.
But as you say, he never really got that chance after the emergence of Dobson.
To those saying this is a sign of our bad summer window I think are being hyperbolic. It was a punt, yes, but we're in League One having to build a squad in one transfer window. A player with good pedigree who is high risk but high reward is the type of player you can take a chance on. And to be fair, in Watson, Dobson, Clare, and Gilbey we have good coverage in the 4 and 8 roles which means that if Arter works out and is a class above, then great, you have a player who likely bosses things in L1. But if not, you have cover.
Best of luck to him. Hope he finds some more success somewhere, he was a delight to watch in that Bournemouth midfield in the Prem.
We chucked the first 4 games because the team wasn't good enough, then we had to have preseason during the season.
We might have got away with it if Inniss, Gilbey and Purrington were fit, they weren't, we knew that weeks before the season started.
The most worrying thing is that if it had not been for injuries they would have got away with it.
A shame but we all move on.
I know some loans have worked out for us in the past but I mostly get the impression that loan players always have their eyes elsewhere.
I wonder why the Black Box didn’t pick up on that when they did?
But even then I didn’t think it would go as bad as it actually has. Should have spent the money and gone back in for Dempsey
Not that it wasn't an issue at all, but the exact same players all looked 10 times fitter and more capable after less than a week with Jackson's coaching. For that to happen across the board as it did says to me that the problem was at least partially a mental one.
If that’s the case and the black box identified Dobson and Clare maybe we should use it for all our signings…
However prior to that CBT, Leko, Arter, Sourse, Lee weren't because they hadn't been playing and Gilbey and Purrington needed "minutes". Even Watson didn't have a preseason and we only had 3 fit midfielders, including him, at one stage.
Any manager would have struggled in the first 7 or 8 games. We could have and should have turned it round quicker. We didn't. That's why Adkins lost his job.
It all sounds like PR nonsense to me anyway - to make us sound more fancy than we actually are.
How can they have reliable stats in the black box considering how little game time they’ve had in the last couple of years? If they’re using data from earlier seasons than that’s naive - if either were the player they used to be they wouldn’t have dropped down to L1.
You’d expect all pro clubs to be using data to support traditional scouting. The challenge is being better at both methods than the rest.
Hopefully lessons have been learnt. TS may have realised spending that bit more on a proven L1 player like Dempsey is ultimately cheaper than continually wasting money on the way down like Watson, Gunter, Arter etc.