The problem is,Thomas took over in a blaze of publicity,outlining his ambitions for the club etc.,and generally saying what we wanted to hear after years of crap ownership.Now, when players or agents are approached by Charlton,they assume the money on offer is going to be generous,and therefore wage demands will be high.maybe at the moment there is a bit of a stand off with incoming players while common ground is sought,but sooner rather than later,players will have to make their minds up or possibly be stuck where they are or clubless.There have been other obvious errors,the incentive scheme was ridiculous,and the person who thought this up needs re training.Turnstiles breaking down with people missing kick off,why not just open a gate and show your ticket.My wife said that a cubicle that was broke last time we came,was still not fixed.A kiosk closed in the East stand on saturday.( I wont mention the food prices£4.50 for a sausage roll, I would rather go hungry)Our elation at returning to the Valley will carry us through for a while,but football supporters are very fickle.
Just to be clear on whether Sandgaard is investing in the club, he put in a £10.5m loan last year which according to the accounts isn’t enough to fund the business in 21/22. He has committed to putting in more otherwise the auditors may have raised doubts in signing off the 19/20 accounts at the end of June 2021. There was a player trading profit last season but the club is burning through cash.
We can argue about lots of things in terms of whether it’s enough to challenge and whether TS’s rhetoric has been wise, but he is putting significant money in.
Hope he is ready for another £10.5M this year because I guarantee you with Delta, Delta-Plus, Iota and Lambda variants arriving, not enough people vaccinated and data showing vaccines wearing off fast, fans will be barred from matches again this season at some point. This pandemic is nowhere near over.
There is a big difference in ambition between AFC Wimbledon and Charlton.
Cafc were in the Premier (tier 1) in 2002 when the phoenix club were reborn and 230 players turned up to an open trial on the common. Soon after they joined the Combined counties League (Tier 9/10.)
Not going to repeat " we should be beating teams like Wimbledon" similar to a Northern Manager about Cafc, But it does show the level we are at opposed to the days we would beat the likes of Chelsea or West ham during the naughties.
Wimbledon are run on a shoestring, every penny they have (plus pennies they don't have) went into getting their new ground built.
It's not "big club supporter" arrogance to say that Charlton should be at another level to them
Charlton should be at a higher level than AFC, although they do of course have to earn that right.
feck me, I've just watched those highlights. From what I'd read on here I thought Davison had missed a complete howler. Agreed, maybe he should have done better but he made a great run, controlled the ball well, found some good space, made the keeper make a save. I've seen far worse misses from far better strikers than him. As I said could have one better but it wasn't an horrendous miss.
It wasn't a horrendous miss but he put it in an easy place for the keeper. He should have hit it low into the corner, not high in the middle of the goal.
Just to be clear on whether Sandgaard is investing in the club, he put in a £10.5m loan last year which according to the accounts isn’t enough to fund the business in 21/22. He has committed to putting in more otherwise the auditors may have raised doubts in signing off the 19/20 accounts at the end of June 2021. There was a player trading profit last season but the club is burning through cash.
We can argue about lots of things in terms of whether it’s enough to challenge and whether TS’s rhetoric has been wise, but he is putting significant money in.
Hope he is ready for another £10.5M this year because I guarantee you with Delta, Delta-Plus, Iota and Lambda variants arriving, not enough people vaccinated and data showing vaccines wearing off fast, fans will be barred from matches again this season at some point. This pandemic is nowhere near over.
True, but you have to factor in the UK government being desperate to avoid any further measures regardless of facts.
I don't think we can assume the whole £10.5m was swallowed in 2020/21 since there was a £4.15m surplus on player trading. However, the accounts could not assume a repeat of the latter in 21/22, hence would need to identify additional funding even with normal L1 income streams restored.
There was an operating loss of £12m in L1 in 2018/19, although not all of that needed to be funded.
£6/7 million is the loss per year in League 1, putting all abnormals aside and going by our typical wage bill
Easy to say that, but out last three L1 confirmed operating losses have been £14.3m, £13.3m and £11.9m. I acknowledge that isn’t the funding requirement but it’s unlikely we’ve seen a £6-£7m reduction in costs since 2016-19 and income won’t be that different.
i haven't analysed the books and to be honest, can't be bothered to, so not doubting your figures but £6/7 million is the figure coming from some very senior figures in the last few days who would know
i haven't analysed the books and to be honest, can't be bothered to, so not doubting your figures but £6/7 million is the figure coming from some very senior figures in the last few days who would know
i haven't analysed the books and to be honest, can't be bothered to, so not doubting your figures but £6/7 million is the figure coming from some very senior figures in the last few days who would know
i haven't analysed the books and to be honest, can't be bothered to, so not doubting your figures but £6/7 million is the figure coming from some very senior figures in the last few days who would know
They won’t know the revenue, whoever they are...
why?
You can largely control costs within a budget but you can’t control revenue. You don’t know what the home and visiting ticket sales will be, what the cup fixtures will be (not usually a huge issue at Charlton) or whether you’ll reach the play-offs and then the final.
Currently we have very inexperienced senior management who have not dealt with fans first hand before last Saturday. They are on a steep learning curve and I’d be amazed if they haven’t made some heroic assumptions about future crowds/revenue.
The Duchatelet era is an unreliable guide, not least because season tickets are up 50% by volume. Who knows to what extent that has mopped up the match-by-match sale, which is inconsistent at the best of times? Then there is Covid.
In any event, I suspect you are confusing the figures by using the funding shortfall, not the operating loss as such.
The playing budget Is far and away the biggest factor. It will be lower now, but I doubt if it’s fallen from, say, £8m In 2016-19 to £3m now, which is where it would probably need to be to reduce the operating loss by the amount you suggest.
The academy staffing is fixed by the status and the non-football staff is relatively cheap and stable. So I think the operating loss may well come down but unless there is significant revenue growth I don’t see how the movement can be circa £6m from 2019-21, especially when the rent is additional.
The way it was put to me is Sandgaard has a decision to make. Push on with another £3m or so of investment now to get up or tread water in this league and lose £6/7 m a year - maybe that is based on figures anticipated if we had signed no more players as of the weekend just gone. The ticket income is of course a bit of a variable but i'm not sure the people who told me this would be as far out as you suggest
i haven't analysed the books and to be honest, can't be bothered to, so not doubting your figures but £6/7 million is the figure coming from some very senior figures in the last few days who would know
They won’t know the revenue, whoever they are...
why?
You can largely control costs within a budget but you can’t control revenue. You don’t know what the home and visiting ticket sales will be, what the cup fixtures will be (not usually a huge issue at Charlton) or whether you’ll reach the play-offs and then the final.
Currently we have very inexperienced senior management who have not dealt with fans first hand before last Saturday. They are on a steep learning curve and I’d be amazed if they haven’t made some heroic assumptions about future crowds/revenue.
The Duchatelet era is an unreliable guide, not least because season tickets are up 50% by volume. Who knows to what extent that has mopped up the match-by-match sale, which is inconsistent at the best of times? Then there is Covid.
In any event, I suspect you are confusing the figures by using the funding shortfall, not the operating loss as such.
The playing budget Is far and away the biggest factor. It will be lower now, but I doubt if it’s fallen from, say, £8m In 2016-19 to £3m now, which is where it would probably need to be to reduce the operating loss by the amount you suggest.
The academy staffing is fixed by the status and the non-football staff is relatively cheap and stable. So I think the operating loss may well come down but unless there is significant revenue growth I don’t see how the movement can be circa £6m from 2019-21, especially when the rent is additional.
The problem is,Thomas took over in a blaze of publicity,outlining his ambitions for the club etc.,and generally saying what we wanted to hear after years of crap ownership.Now, when players or agents are approached by Charlton,they assume the money on offer is going to be generous,and therefore wage demands will be high.maybe at the moment there is a bit of a stand off with incoming players while common ground is sought,but sooner rather than later,players will have to make their minds up or possibly be stuck where they are or clubless.There have been other obvious errors,the incentive scheme was ridiculous,and the person who thought this up needs re training.Turnstiles breaking down with people missing kick off,why not just open a gate and show your ticket.My wife said that a cubicle that was broke last time we came,was still not fixed.A kiosk closed in the East stand on saturday.( I wont mention the food prices£4.50 for a sausage roll, I would rather go hungry)Our elation at returning to the Valley will carry us through for a while,but football supporters are very fickle.
£4.50 for a sausage roll is cheap. £6.50 at Fulham recently.
The way it was put to me is Sandgaard has a decision to make. Push on with another £3m or so of investment now to get up or tread water in this league and lose £6/7 m a year - maybe that is based on figures anticipated if we had signed no more players as of the weekend just gone. The ticket income is of course a bit of a variable but i'm not sure the people who told me this would be as far out as you suggest
I agree the variance in matchday receipts is unlikely to be more than £1m, bearing in mind we reached the play-off final in 2018/19.
It’s quite possible the funding requirement (Not the operating loss) will be £6/£7m although I doubt TS is going to commit £3m in the next few weeks/January.
I haven’t forgotten Richard Murray telling people we could/would break even in the Championship if promoted around 2009/10. The people actually running the business day to day knew better.
There have been other obvious errors,the incentive scheme was ridiculous,and the person who thought this up needs re training.Turnstiles breaking down with people missing kick off,why not just open a gate and show your ticket.My wife said that a cubicle that was broke last time we came,was still not fixed.A kiosk closed in the East stand on saturday.( I wont mention the food prices£4.50 for a sausage roll, I would rather go hungry)Our elation at returning to the Valley will carry us through for a while,but football supporters are very fickle.
Apart from appointing a few senior people involved on the footballing side, I dont think hes really done anything in terms of the operations/ticketing side. I think its largely the same people who were running those in the latter RD era. Perhaps the solution there is for TS to go on a hiring spree and bring in a group of super experienced football club operations people, but is he even involved in that side, or is he even aware that area of the club needs some attention?
The way it was put to me is Sandgaard has a decision to make. Push on with another £3m or so of investment now to get up or tread water in this league and lose £6/7 m a year - maybe that is based on figures anticipated if we had signed no more players as of the weekend just gone. The ticket income is of course a bit of a variable but i'm not sure the people who told me this would be as far out as you suggest
I agree the variance in matchday receipts is unlikely to be more than £1m, bearing in mind we reached the play-off final in 2018/19.
It’s quite possible the funding requirement (Not the operating loss) will be £6/£7m although I doubt TS is going to commit £3m in the next few weeks/January.
I haven’t forgotten Richard Murray telling people we could/would break even in the Championship if promoted around 2009/10. The people actually running the business day to day knew better.
i've no idea about the murray stuff but wouldn't the funding requirement be the key thing or are you saying the rest would be just put towards the debt pile? Don't get the logic why he wouldn't commit the £3m
The way it was put to me is Sandgaard has a decision to make. Push on with another £3m or so of investment now to get up or tread water in this league and lose £6/7 m a year - maybe that is based on figures anticipated if we had signed no more players as of the weekend just gone. The ticket income is of course a bit of a variable but i'm not sure the people who told me this would be as far out as you suggest
I agree the variance in matchday receipts is unlikely to be more than £1m, bearing in mind we reached the play-off final in 2018/19.
It’s quite possible the funding requirement (Not the operating loss) will be £6/£7m although I doubt TS is going to commit £3m in the next few weeks/January.
I haven’t forgotten Richard Murray telling people we could/would break even in the Championship if promoted around 2009/10. The people actually running the business day to day knew better.
i've no idea about the murray stuff but wouldn't the funding requirement be the key thing or are you saying the rest would be just put towards the debt pile? Don't get the logic why he wouldn't commit the £3m
Yes, the funding requirement is key - the operating loss tells you about the underlying health of the business though. So for example you can’t rely on transfer profits, which do reduce the funding need but don’t necessarily repeat year on year, and aren’t counted in the operating loss/profit. You talked about a normal year - to understand what that is you need to look at the operating loss, which excludes one-offs.
As far as the £3m is concerned, I’m simply saying that would be a pretty drastic change of direction at this point.
Comments
Hope he is ready for another £10.5M this year because I guarantee you with Delta, Delta-Plus, Iota and Lambda variants arriving, not enough people vaccinated and data showing vaccines wearing off fast, fans will be barred from matches again this season at some point. This pandemic is nowhere near over.
He should have hit it low into the corner, not high in the middle of the goal.
I don't think we can assume the whole £10.5m was swallowed in 2020/21 since there was a £4.15m surplus on player trading. However, the accounts could not assume a repeat of the latter in 21/22, hence would need to identify additional funding even with normal L1 income streams restored.
There was an operating loss of £12m in L1 in 2018/19, although not all of that needed to be funded.
Currently we have very inexperienced senior management who have not dealt with fans first hand before last Saturday. They are on a steep learning curve and I’d be amazed if they haven’t made some heroic assumptions about future crowds/revenue.
The Duchatelet era is an unreliable guide, not least because season tickets are up 50% by volume. Who knows to what extent that has mopped up the match-by-match sale, which is inconsistent at the best of times? Then there is Covid.
:-)
I haven’t forgotten Richard Murray telling people we could/would break even in the Championship if promoted around 2009/10. The people actually running the business day to day knew better.
As far as the £3m is concerned, I’m simply saying that would be a pretty drastic change of direction at this point.