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Gillingham v Charlton | Saturday 21st November 2020 | Post-match thread
Comments
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Just to be clear, I don’t think either player has committed a foul. It’s just a coming together and play should have carried on.Oggy Red said:
On that basis, you could even say that Afkinde's foot made contact with Gunther's shin ....... making Gunther the one actually fouled, whatever!ElliotCAFC said:
I can see why a pen was given but I disagree. It’s a tangling of legs that neither player is responsible for.Dazzler21 said:
Here you see Gunter's shin connect with Akinde's foot
Here you see Akinde's left foot hit his right ankle after the connection
here both players stumble
Now I am certain Akinde could have stayed on his feet having watched this at 1/4 speed. But it's still a foul as Gunter purposefully or not tripped Akinde.
Had it been a shoulder to shoulder etc, I could understand the disagreements.I don’t get how you can say Gunter fouled Akinde when it’s Akinde’s backward stride that initiated the contract and put himself off balance.
Afkinde's foot does seem to be unnaturally trailing behind ..... and we know it's a well known trick to con a referee into awarding a penalty kick: think Zaha at Palace, for example.
In all the images, you can see Gunther clearly focused on the ball ahead.
He wouldn't have seen Afkinde's trailing foot, so from what I can see from the footage/photos .......... no intent whatsoever.
But for all Dazzler's efforts to judge Gunther as guilty, watching it again and again I still can't see any actual contact.But yeah, you could make the argument Akinde was the guilty party. It’s his outstretched leg that has supposedly touched Gunter, which has then caused his own left foot to hit his right, resulting in him going to ground.It’s a contact sport that isn’t binary, not every coming together is either a foul or good tackle.4 -
Because it was Gunter's forward stride that initiated the contact and put them both off balance. You can literally argue it either way but Akinde was on the ball and as such can use his body to guard the ball, however Gunter trips Akinde, because Akinde uses his body and Gunter tries to change direction.ElliotCAFC said:
I can see why a pen was given but I disagree. It’s a tangling of legs that neither player is responsible for.Dazzler21 said: Here you see Gunter's shin connect with Akinde's foot Here you see Akinde's left foot hit his right ankle after the connection here both players stumble
Now I am certain Akinde could have stayed on his feet having watched this at 1/4 speed. But it's still a foul as Gunter purposefully or not tripped Akinde.
Had it been a shoulder to shoulder etc, I could understand the disagreements.I don’t get how you can say Gunter fouled Akinde when it’s Akinde’s backward stride that initiated the contract and put himself off balance.
Simply, if Gunter's foot wasn't too close to the back of Akinde, Akinde wouldn't have tripped.
If it was against us, I'd say it's a 50/50 in terms of when they're given, but they are sometimes given and it is by the letter of the law a trip on a player that was on the ball. Or a foul.
I'm not calling for Gunter to be burned at the stake here, but let's not pretend a foul isn't a foul, just because the bloke has bought it. Williams wins fouls all the time by leaving a leg trailing or crossing the defender's path.2 -
Nobody is “pretending a foul isn’t a foul” - it’s a game of opinions and I happen to somewhat disagree. That doesn’t mean I’m right and you’re wrong, and vice versa.Dazzler21 said:
Because it was Gunter's forward stride that initiated the contact and put them both off balance. You can literally argue it either way but Akinde was on the ball and as such can use his body to guard the ball, however Gunter trips Akinde, because Akinde uses his body and Gunter tries to change direction.ElliotCAFC said:
I can see why a pen was given but I disagree. It’s a tangling of legs that neither player is responsible for.Dazzler21 said: Here you see Gunter's shin connect with Akinde's foot Here you see Akinde's left foot hit his right ankle after the connection here both players stumble
Now I am certain Akinde could have stayed on his feet having watched this at 1/4 speed. But it's still a foul as Gunter purposefully or not tripped Akinde.
Had it been a shoulder to shoulder etc, I could understand the disagreements.I don’t get how you can say Gunter fouled Akinde when it’s Akinde’s backward stride that initiated the contract and put himself off balance.
Simply, if Gunter's foot wasn't too close to the back of Akinde, Akinde wouldn't have tripped.
If it was against us, I'd say it's a 50/50 in terms of when they're given, but they are sometimes given and it is by the letter of the law a trip on a player that was on the ball. Or a foul.
I'm not calling for Gunter to be burned at the stake here, but let's not pretend a foul isn't a foul, just because the bloke has bought it. Williams wins fouls all the time by leaving a leg trailing or crossing the defender's path.From what I can see in the first image, Gunter isn’t in full stride at all, and is in no way attempting to challenge the ball. Whereas Akinde fully extended his leg and initiated the contact, which led to him going down.This isn’t a partisan thing where I back Williams going down because he’s a Charlton player, any time a player leaves a leg dangling to initiate contact shouldn’t be a foul.2 -
In a few games so far he's had what appear to be easy catches but the ball has squirmed out of his hands, luckily these instances didn't cost us a goal & he has made excellent saves on other occasions which probably outweigh the mistakes.cafcfan1990 said:
Absolutely not, but surely if/when he has a bad game it's not unfair to point it out, particularly when the thread is specific to that game. I wouldn't support any post that even hints at dropping Amos or even criticising him for it, but I'm in agreement with cafcsinger that giving him an 8 on Saturday was probably reflective of his form so far this season and not Saturday's game. Either that or the fantastic save stands out, but he certainly didn't have his best game.MuttleyCAFC said:I don't think anybody can say Amos isn't having a great season so far.
Covered End responded by asking who is better than him but I don't think that's a relevant question. If Amos lets two slip under his legs tomorrow I will score him low and I will probably comment that he's cost us the game. That doesn't necessarily mean I don't rate him, it's just a fair and accurate response.2 -
Our angle was not the best as it looked like Gunter wasn't close enough. But seeing as we didn't complain as much as we could afterwards, I suspect he caught him. He wasn't booked so I also assume the ref deemed there was no intent, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a foul. I agree it was one of those that are not given every time, but if there was contact, we can't complain.3
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Man of the matchcafcsinger said:
Maybe you misread my post because I don't understand the relevance of the question. I'm pretty sure Amos is one of the best keepers in the league, although I can't say i watch other league one matches. I think he had an average game, certainly for his high standards.Covered End said:
Which L1 keeper is better than Amos?cafcsinger said:Amos getting lots of 7's/8's out of 10 in the player marks match. Made a few good saves, but complete airpunch in the first half which there guy headed over. Easy catch which he fumbled in the fist half and they nearly scored. Maybe even should have come out quicker for the penalty we conceded! Rose tinted glasses.
Ben Amos.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/90467/statbank-gillingham-1-1-charlton#latest
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It does seem like some people are trying to shutdown others' opinion of the penalty incident.
Jees, the FA cannot even get Var decisions correct, upon review with the rulebook in their hand, so maybe realise that such decisions are open for interpretation!1 -
Find that very surprising, although nobody really stood out. I would have said Pratley and Maatsen were both better. Stand by my opinion that the save stands out or his form this season.Covered End said:
Man of the matchcafcsinger said:
Maybe you misread my post because I don't understand the relevance of the question. I'm pretty sure Amos is one of the best keepers in the league, although I can't say i watch other league one matches. I think he had an average game, certainly for his high standards.Covered End said:
Which L1 keeper is better than Amos?cafcsinger said:Amos getting lots of 7's/8's out of 10 in the player marks match. Made a few good saves, but complete airpunch in the first half which there guy headed over. Easy catch which he fumbled in the fist half and they nearly scored. Maybe even should have come out quicker for the penalty we conceded! Rose tinted glasses.
Ben Amos.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/90467/statbank-gillingham-1-1-charlton#latest0 -
I'd have said Shinnie was the best on the pitch personally, but much of what he does is missed. A very shrewd acquisition. I hope we can make it permanent.cafcfan1990 said:
Find that very surprising, although nobody really stood out. I would have said Pratley and Maatsen were both better. Stand by my opinion that the save stands out or his form this season.Covered End said:
Man of the matchcafcsinger said:
Maybe you misread my post because I don't understand the relevance of the question. I'm pretty sure Amos is one of the best keepers in the league, although I can't say i watch other league one matches. I think he had an average game, certainly for his high standards.Covered End said:
Which L1 keeper is better than Amos?cafcsinger said:Amos getting lots of 7's/8's out of 10 in the player marks match. Made a few good saves, but complete airpunch in the first half which there guy headed over. Easy catch which he fumbled in the fist half and they nearly scored. Maybe even should have come out quicker for the penalty we conceded! Rose tinted glasses.
Ben Amos.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/90467/statbank-gillingham-1-1-charlton#latest3 -
Very surprised by that. I gave him 5.5 that was a little harsh, more like 6/6.5 at bestCovered End said:
Man of the matchcafcsinger said:
Maybe you misread my post because I don't understand the relevance of the question. I'm pretty sure Amos is one of the best keepers in the league, although I can't say i watch other league one matches. I think he had an average game, certainly for his high standards.Covered End said:
Which L1 keeper is better than Amos?cafcsinger said:Amos getting lots of 7's/8's out of 10 in the player marks match. Made a few good saves, but complete airpunch in the first half which there guy headed over. Easy catch which he fumbled in the fist half and they nearly scored. Maybe even should have come out quicker for the penalty we conceded! Rose tinted glasses.
Ben Amos.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/90467/statbank-gillingham-1-1-charlton#latest0 - Sponsored links:
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When I saw that set of pics implying Akinde had bought the foul, the first thing I checked was whether he'd come from the Palace academy. Turns out he was born in Camberwell so would have qualified for the South Norwood Diving Academy, but was at Spuirs then Ebbsfleet. He's also 31, which is older than I imagined but would account for him being experienced enough to buy it. I'm still amazed it was given - if it had been us, how many of us believe we would have got it?0
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Not sure that's a fair assessment given we ourselves got a very cheap penalty in the game.rananegra said:When I saw that set of pics implying Akinde had bought the foul, the first thing I checked was whether he'd come from the Palace academy. Turns out he was born in Camberwell so would have qualified for the South Norwood Diving Academy, but was at Spuirs then Ebbsfleet. He's also 31, which is older than I imagined but would account for him being experienced enough to buy it. I'm still amazed it was given - if it had been us, how many of us believe we would have got it?1 -
To state the obvious, the prolonged injury problems of so many players is both a puzzle and a worry .. OR, do other clubs have the same problems that no-one on here is really aware of ? .. the weeks long absences of big strong geezers like our two new central defenders indicate that it's not only glass figurines like Williams who continually haunt the casualty wards and treatment rooms .. we need to protect the NHS during these pandemic times .. sort it out CAFC medical staff f f s ((:>)Dazzler21 said:Lmao.
Inniss now out for an extended period! Had hoped it was a short term one.
What are we doing to these players!1 -
I agree, but the best person to judge all this is the referee. He is in a fairly good position and should have a feel for the situation as well. Refs do know that players cheat to get a Penalty, and the old trailing leg and tripping yourself up is hardly new. He is the closest to the action and does not give a foul.ElliotCAFC said:
Just to be clear, I don’t think either player has committed a foul. It’s just a coming together and play should have carried on.Oggy Red said:
On that basis, you could even say that Afkinde's foot made contact with Gunther's shin ....... making Gunther the one actually fouled, whatever!ElliotCAFC said:
I can see why a pen was given but I disagree. It’s a tangling of legs that neither player is responsible for.Dazzler21 said: Here you see Gunter's shin connect with Akinde's foot Here you see Akinde's left foot hit his right ankle after the connection here both players stumble
Now I am certain Akinde could have stayed on his feet having watched this at 1/4 speed. But it's still a foul as Gunter purposefully or not tripped Akinde.
Had it been a shoulder to shoulder etc, I could understand the disagreements.I don’t get how you can say Gunter fouled Akinde when it’s Akinde’s backward stride that initiated the contract and put himself off balance.
Afkinde's foot does seem to be unnaturally trailing behind ..... and we know it's a well known trick to con a referee into awarding a penalty kick: think Zaha at Palace, for example.
In all the images, you can see Gunther clearly focused on the ball ahead.
He wouldn't have seen Afkinde's trailing foot, so from what I can see from the footage/photos .......... no intent whatsoever.
But for all Dazzler's efforts to judge Gunther as guilty, watching it again and again I still can't see any actual contact.But yeah, you could make the argument Akinde was the guilty party. It’s his outstretched leg that has supposedly touched Gunter, which has then caused his own left foot to hit his right, resulting in him going to ground.It’s a contact sport that isn’t binary, not every coming together is either a foul or good tackle.Bizarrely, he then has a conversation with the 4th official who is further away and it is he who gives the Penalty. Not good enough.2 -
I'm glad someone else is saying this. I think he drops saves a lot but is (so far) always quick enough to get down and smother the ball. I think he's great at coming and claiming a cross and an excellent reaction keeper but he rarely holds a shot. At the end of the day though he gets the results as he hasn't dropped it in front of a striker (yet).charltonbob said:
In a few games so far he's had what appear to be easy catches but the ball has squirmed out of his hands, luckily these instances didn't cost us a goal & he has made excellent saves on other occasions which probably outweigh the mistakes.cafcfan1990 said:
Absolutely not, but surely if/when he has a bad game it's not unfair to point it out, particularly when the thread is specific to that game. I wouldn't support any post that even hints at dropping Amos or even criticising him for it, but I'm in agreement with cafcsinger that giving him an 8 on Saturday was probably reflective of his form so far this season and not Saturday's game. Either that or the fantastic save stands out, but he certainly didn't have his best game.MuttleyCAFC said:I don't think anybody can say Amos isn't having a great season so far.
Covered End responded by asking who is better than him but I don't think that's a relevant question. If Amos lets two slip under his legs tomorrow I will score him low and I will probably comment that he's cost us the game. That doesn't necessarily mean I don't rate him, it's just a fair and accurate response.4 -
Let's be honest. If he was the complete package he wouldn't be playing for us in league 1. At this level he is as good as we can realistically hope for (not meant to be in anyway derisory) and (so far) we have not missed Dillon Phillips at all.SpicedAddick said:
I'm glad someone else is saying this. I think he drops saves a lot but is (so far) always quick enough to get down and smother the ball. I think he's great at coming and claiming a cross and an excellent reaction keeper but he rarely holds a shot. At the end of the day though he gets the results as he hasn't dropped it in front of a striker (yet).charltonbob said:
In a few games so far he's had what appear to be easy catches but the ball has squirmed out of his hands, luckily these instances didn't cost us a goal & he has made excellent saves on other occasions which probably outweigh the mistakes.cafcfan1990 said:
Absolutely not, but surely if/when he has a bad game it's not unfair to point it out, particularly when the thread is specific to that game. I wouldn't support any post that even hints at dropping Amos or even criticising him for it, but I'm in agreement with cafcsinger that giving him an 8 on Saturday was probably reflective of his form so far this season and not Saturday's game. Either that or the fantastic save stands out, but he certainly didn't have his best game.MuttleyCAFC said:I don't think anybody can say Amos isn't having a great season so far.
Covered End responded by asking who is better than him but I don't think that's a relevant question. If Amos lets two slip under his legs tomorrow I will score him low and I will probably comment that he's cost us the game. That doesn't necessarily mean I don't rate him, it's just a fair and accurate response.
I am not sure how many other previous Players of the Year we can say that about which is perhaps the best compliment I can pay Amos.3 -
I gave him 8 MOM.cafcsinger said:
Very surprised by that. I gave him 5.5 that was a little harsh, more like 6/6.5 at bestCovered End said:
Man of the matchcafcsinger said:
Maybe you misread my post because I don't understand the relevance of the question. I'm pretty sure Amos is one of the best keepers in the league, although I can't say i watch other league one matches. I think he had an average game, certainly for his high standards.Covered End said:
Which L1 keeper is better than Amos?cafcsinger said:Amos getting lots of 7's/8's out of 10 in the player marks match. Made a few good saves, but complete airpunch in the first half which there guy headed over. Easy catch which he fumbled in the fist half and they nearly scored. Maybe even should have come out quicker for the penalty we conceded! Rose tinted glasses.
Ben Amos.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/90467/statbank-gillingham-1-1-charlton#latest
I presume you saw his great save in the first half (without that we possibly lose 2-1)?1 -
He's just gone 6 games without conceding a goal and was voted L1 Player of the Month for October.SpicedAddick said:
I'm glad someone else is saying this. I think he drops saves a lot but is (so far) always quick enough to get down and smother the ball. I think he's great at coming and claiming a cross and an excellent reaction keeper but he rarely holds a shot. At the end of the day though he gets the results as he hasn't dropped it in front of a striker (yet).charltonbob said:
In a few games so far he's had what appear to be easy catches but the ball has squirmed out of his hands, luckily these instances didn't cost us a goal & he has made excellent saves on other occasions which probably outweigh the mistakes.cafcfan1990 said:
Absolutely not, but surely if/when he has a bad game it's not unfair to point it out, particularly when the thread is specific to that game. I wouldn't support any post that even hints at dropping Amos or even criticising him for it, but I'm in agreement with cafcsinger that giving him an 8 on Saturday was probably reflective of his form so far this season and not Saturday's game. Either that or the fantastic save stands out, but he certainly didn't have his best game.MuttleyCAFC said:I don't think anybody can say Amos isn't having a great season so far.
Covered End responded by asking who is better than him but I don't think that's a relevant question. If Amos lets two slip under his legs tomorrow I will score him low and I will probably comment that he's cost us the game. That doesn't necessarily mean I don't rate him, it's just a fair and accurate response.
So, the best player out of let's say 350 (approximately).
I'm a tad disappointed (on behalf of Amos), with a few fan's comments.1 -
I would say to defenders that if such contact which is unintentional on both parties happens again then you too have to fall over.Redrobo said:
I agree, but the best person to judge all this is the referee. He is in a fairly good position and should have a feel for the situation as well. Refs do know that players cheat to get a Penalty, and the old trailing leg and tripping yourself up is hardly new. He is the closest to the action and does not give a foul.ElliotCAFC said:
Just to be clear, I don’t think either player has committed a foul. It’s just a coming together and play should have carried on.Oggy Red said:
On that basis, you could even say that Afkinde's foot made contact with Gunther's shin ....... making Gunther the one actually fouled, whatever!ElliotCAFC said:
I can see why a pen was given but I disagree. It’s a tangling of legs that neither player is responsible for.Dazzler21 said: Here you see Gunter's shin connect with Akinde's foot Here you see Akinde's left foot hit his right ankle after the connection here both players stumble
Now I am certain Akinde could have stayed on his feet having watched this at 1/4 speed. But it's still a foul as Gunter purposefully or not tripped Akinde.
Had it been a shoulder to shoulder etc, I could understand the disagreements.I don’t get how you can say Gunter fouled Akinde when it’s Akinde’s backward stride that initiated the contract and put himself off balance.
Afkinde's foot does seem to be unnaturally trailing behind ..... and we know it's a well known trick to con a referee into awarding a penalty kick: think Zaha at Palace, for example.
In all the images, you can see Gunther clearly focused on the ball ahead.
He wouldn't have seen Afkinde's trailing foot, so from what I can see from the footage/photos .......... no intent whatsoever.
But for all Dazzler's efforts to judge Gunther as guilty, watching it again and again I still can't see any actual contact.But yeah, you could make the argument Akinde was the guilty party. It’s his outstretched leg that has supposedly touched Gunter, which has then caused his own left foot to hit his right, resulting in him going to ground.It’s a contact sport that isn’t binary, not every coming together is either a foul or good tackle.Bizarrely, he then has a conversation with the 4th official who is further away and it is he who gives the Penalty. Not good enough.0 -
Wrong thread winble1
