Whilst the benefit system is obviously a great help for those in real need, I think people need to start to look after themselves. Having children is a massive responsibility. I am married with three children aged 8 , 5 and 3. I work full time shifts, as did the wife until just made redundant (she hasn't been able to work since March). We argue all the time due to pressure, financial problems, exhaustion etc. It's a huge juggling act but you have to get on with it. Too many adults and indeed kids are having children without thinking about the cost and responsibility of bringing them up, whilst also knowing the government will bail them out. We live in a (western) world now where things are expected for nothing. Take responsibility, have children in a true relationship and stop having kids as a cash cow, or at least thinking as such. Settle with someone and then have children, whilst working equally as hard at your relationship.
First of all I can only wish you all the best for now and for the future I hope you and your family get through this period safe and well.
I would suggest that a truly civil society should look after those that need help and the benefits system in the uk hardly covers for that. You only need to point to the rise of food banks as one particular indicator that things are getting worse.
My own personal belief is that a truly civil society should work together and it not all be on the individuals shoulder to carry the burdens of life. What’s the point in a life where we encourage individualism at every turn, where we encourage everyone to keep what’s theirs and that nuance is unacceptable.
Unforeseen and unavoidable circumstances can impact our lives as you point to your own experience, in addition our lives are full of the nuance referenced above. We change, we make mistakes, we miscalculate, we grow, we mature, we regress, we get sick, we get well again our loved ones die, we die.
My point is so much of our lives are unknown, collectively we should help the likes of yourself and others out a helluva lot more than we currently do, not less.
I would always always always gladly pay additional taxes to help people out even in the knowledge that there will be a minority of people who will play the system because I believe that it not only helps the individual concerned but because it makes us a more progressive and civil society.
Whilst the benefit system is obviously a great help for those in real need, I think people need to start to look after themselves. Having children is a massive responsibility. I am married with three children aged 8 , 5 and 3. I work full time shifts, as did the wife until just made redundant (she hasn't been able to work since March). We argue all the time due to pressure, financial problems, exhaustion etc. It's a huge juggling act but you have to get on with it. Too many adults and indeed kids are having children without thinking about the cost and responsibility of bringing them up, whilst also knowing the government will bail them out. We live in a (western) world now where things are expected for nothing. Take responsibility, have children in a true relationship and stop having kids as a cash cow, or at least thinking as such. Settle with someone and then have children, whilst working equally as hard at your relationship.
......And in the meantime, while we all wait for those people who have no idea what the word responsibility means, to change their ways, children go hungry. Parenting is cyclical. Poor parenting very often leads to children becoming poor parents themselves. Poverty is cyclical too. Poverty is a complex complex issue. In a democratic forward thinking country feeding children should not be complex.
For balance they should put up the amount of expenses for the MP's that voted in favour of free school meals.
I suppose you're free to search it out and compile a list. I would very much imagine MP's from all parties claim what looks to you and me eye-watering expenses. The difference is some MP's, with granted stupidly high expenses, voted against supporting the children, but others, possibly well aware of how fortunate they are themselves with stupidly high expenses, voted to extend a bit of largesse to hungry children. To me, maybe only to me, there is a difference between keeping all the goodies for yourself, and sharing it around a little. In this instance sharing around a comparative little to do a large amount of good. Any one, any family, can fall on hard times just like that, and as other people say, sometimes it isn't about giving a hand out, but a hand up. On a personal note, back in the days when the world was in black and white, I was a child in care, and enjoyed free school lunches and from my comfortable perspective now, I look back and realise I needed those meals.
Totally support free meals for the needy Seth but if someone puts up an argument like that on the site that you listed then it has to be balanced. That list is flawed at best, just look at who is bottom for example!
Jacob Rees Mogg you mean? He voted to deny the children the help.
No - I mean he took no expenses at all.
I read that list as an outrage of expenses (Which it is) and that if they did not claim as much then they could feed starving kids with that money.
You really couldn't write some of the stuff these MPs, desperate to deflect away from their disgusting stance on FSL, are actually suggesting -that food vouchers are a currency utilised by parents and accepted by drug dealers!
For balance they should put up the amount of expenses for the MP's that voted in favour of free school meals.
I suppose you're free to search it out and compile a list. I would very much imagine MP's from all parties claim what looks to you and me eye-watering expenses. The difference is some MP's, with granted stupidly high expenses, voted against supporting the children, but others, possibly well aware of how fortunate they are themselves with stupidly high expenses, voted to extend a bit of largesse to hungry children. To me, maybe only to me, there is a difference between keeping all the goodies for yourself, and sharing it around a little. In this instance sharing around a comparative little to do a large amount of good. Any one, any family, can fall on hard times just like that, and as other people say, sometimes it isn't about giving a hand out, but a hand up. On a personal note, back in the days when the world was in black and white, I was a child in care, and enjoyed free school lunches and from my comfortable perspective now, I look back and realise I needed those meals.
Totally support free meals for the needy Seth but if someone puts up an argument like that on the site that you listed then it has to be balanced. That list is flawed at best, just look at who is bottom for example!
Jacob Rees Mogg you mean? He voted to deny the children the help.
No - I mean he took no expenses at all.
I read that list as an outrage of expenses (Which it is) and that if they did not claim as much then they could feed starving kids with that money.
Wouldn't you say that the expenses list for those against helping the kids is an example of hypocrisy? Not that they should feed children out of the expenses money. On that specific measure Jacob Rees Mogg can be exempted from such an accusation (of hypocrisy).
At the risk of being shot down is it not the parents job to ensure their kids are suitably looked after? My parents were never well off and we always struggled when I was younger, but they always ensured we had food. Don't see why the government is expected to bail everyone out if I'm being honest
If someone could enlighten me on this then I'm willing to listen
They aren’t bailing the parents out, they’re bailing the kids out.
Hard to argue with this point and Marcus Rashford is a fine ambassador and spokesperson for the kids.
I made the decision to just have 2 kids: nature decided and we had two healthy kids. My wife then wanted more, but I wasn't certain about my future so two it was ! I had two cash streams, one stressful and one was boring. No way did I want or expect the state to pay for my kids or have to feed them, unless through sickness or an accident which meant I couldn't work.
I agree let's make sure no kids go hungry But why did Marcus's mum keep having children when according to Rashford, his dad kept going AWOL ?
I have advocated for years that the state gives good child benefits for the first two children. Then how about Birth control ?
Well when the Prime Minister has at leastSEVEN children from a number of different mothers, he is hardly leading the way so far as birth control let alone fidelity is concerned is he? Presumably, under your system, only the mother of his first two children could claim benefits because contraception is the sole responsibility of each and every mother?
One could say that Boris is anything but a fine role model. And Marcus Rashford is.
Boris Johnson is only a role model for old Etonians and Boris can afford to pay for the myriad of children he is the daddy of. It's a scary thought to think of so many kids of this Buffon in the gene pool.
When my son and daughter decided to work at a supermarket for a few months because their work in Hospitality and theatres stopped because of COVID-19, they couldn't believe the amount of wasted food.
There is no excuse in our society for kids to go Hungry.
For balance they should put up the amount of expenses for the MP's that voted in favour of free school meals.
I suppose you're free to search it out and compile a list. I would very much imagine MP's from all parties claim what looks to you and me eye-watering expenses. The difference is some MP's, with granted stupidly high expenses, voted against supporting the children, but others, possibly well aware of how fortunate they are themselves with stupidly high expenses, voted to extend a bit of largesse to hungry children. To me, maybe only to me, there is a difference between keeping all the goodies for yourself, and sharing it around a little. In this instance sharing around a comparative little to do a large amount of good. Any one, any family, can fall on hard times just like that, and as other people say, sometimes it isn't about giving a hand out, but a hand up. On a personal note, back in the days when the world was in black and white, I was a child in care, and enjoyed free school lunches and from my comfortable perspective now, I look back and realise I needed those meals.
Totally support free meals for the needy Seth but if someone puts up an argument like that on the site that you listed then it has to be balanced. That list is flawed at best, just look at who is bottom for example!
Jacob Rees Mogg you mean? He voted to deny the children the help.
No - I mean he took no expenses at all.
I read that list as an outrage of expenses (Which it is) and that if they did not claim as much then they could feed starving kids with that money.
Wouldn't you say that the expenses list for those against helping the kids is an example of hypocrisy? Not that they should feed children out of the expenses money. On that specific measure Jacob Rees Mogg can be exempted from such an accusation (of hypocrisy).
I wonder how many MP's, past or present and from all sides of the political spectrum are guilty of hypocrisy?
For balance they should put up the amount of expenses for the MP's that voted in favour of free school meals.
I suppose you're free to search it out and compile a list. I would very much imagine MP's from all parties claim what looks to you and me eye-watering expenses. The difference is some MP's, with granted stupidly high expenses, voted against supporting the children, but others, possibly well aware of how fortunate they are themselves with stupidly high expenses, voted to extend a bit of largesse to hungry children. To me, maybe only to me, there is a difference between keeping all the goodies for yourself, and sharing it around a little. In this instance sharing around a comparative little to do a large amount of good. Any one, any family, can fall on hard times just like that, and as other people say, sometimes it isn't about giving a hand out, but a hand up. On a personal note, back in the days when the world was in black and white, I was a child in care, and enjoyed free school lunches and from my comfortable perspective now, I look back and realise I needed those meals.
Totally support free meals for the needy Seth but if someone puts up an argument like that on the site that you listed then it has to be balanced. That list is flawed at best, just look at who is bottom for example!
Jacob Rees Mogg you mean? He voted to deny the children the help.
No - I mean he took no expenses at all.
I read that list as an outrage of expenses (Which it is) and that if they did not claim as much then they could feed starving kids with that money.
Wouldn't you say that the expenses list for those against helping the kids is an example of hypocrisy? Not that they should feed children out of the expenses money. On that specific measure Jacob Rees Mogg can be exempted from such an accusation (of hypocrisy).
I wonder how many MP's, past or present and from all sides of the political spectrum are guilty of hypocrisy?
Very likely all of them. But this vote not to help children is now. A comparison is you can't let off Matt Southall because Tanoon Nimer does it too. In the hungry children issue this week what is wrong is plain wrong. I am sure the anti Rashford backlash will come, but right now he is a hero of our time
Whilst the benefit system is obviously a great help for those in real need, I think people need to start to look after themselves. Having children is a massive responsibility. I am married with three children aged 8 , 5 and 3. I work full time shifts, as did the wife until just made redundant (she hasn't been able to work since March). We argue all the time due to pressure, financial problems, exhaustion etc. It's a huge juggling act but you have to get on with it. Too many adults and indeed kids are having children without thinking about the cost and responsibility of bringing them up, whilst also knowing the government will bail them out. We live in a (western) world now where things are expected for nothing. Take responsibility, have children in a true relationship and stop having kids as a cash cow, or at least thinking as such. Settle with someone and then have children, whilst working equally as hard at your relationship.
Best post I have read on CL for weeks. No cheap political points scoring, just a determined family making the best of a difficult situation. Been in similar situation myself as have friends. Very best wishes to you.
Yes there is a problem regarding irresponsible parenting. Apart from those often very decent people who can't have children, then any fool can have them. You have to learn for ages, and have a theory and practical test in order to be able to drive a car, but a quick bonk can produce a child. I can't see an easy answer, unless we have Victorian levels of disapproval regarding bonking matters, but even then you only have to be aware of the work of Charles Dickens to realise the Victorians didn't have the answers. Who says it takes one person to have a child but a village to rear one? Are we not all responsible, due to an unwritten and unspoken covenant with God or nature or whatever, to care for all children even if they're not our own? Or at least to look out for children and have their backs, or be their wingman or woman until they get to around 17 years old?
Now pleading online for folks to take into consideration her work with local food banks and thoroughly impervious to the notion that the existence of food banks is a bastard disgrace.
It does seem to be a huge own goal that the Government has scored here as it puts them in a very poor light. As they agreed to issuing vouchers in the summer, it does appear as penny pinching to refuse to do so again and whilst we are still in the grip of the pandemic. In view of the vast sums of money being spent by the Government, it wouldn't cost an awful lot more to do this.
Unfortunately this is just Tories just behaving according to type here. If you vote Tory, this is what you will get. No discernible benefit for anyone but lots of Tory MPs and hangers on with their snouts in the trough.
The pressure is rising for a Government U-turn. Almost 800,000 signatures on Marcus Rashford’s petition currently and still rising. Conservative MPs wobbling.
The pressure is rising for a Government U-turn. Almost 800,000 signatures on Marcus Rashford’s petition currently and still rising. Conservative MPs wobbling.
They will surely do a u-turn, too much bad press (i know they get a lot anyway) for them not to.
Comments
My own personal belief is that a truly civil society should work together and it not all be on the individuals shoulder to carry the burdens of life. What’s the point in a life where we encourage individualism at every turn, where we encourage everyone to keep what’s theirs and that nuance is unacceptable.
To the point I suppose.
No - I mean he took no expenses at all.
I read that list as an outrage of expenses (Which it is) and that if they did not claim as much then they could feed starving kids with that money.
You really couldn't write some of the stuff these MPs, desperate to deflect away from their disgusting stance on FSL, are actually suggesting -that food vouchers are a currency utilised by parents and accepted by drug dealers!
Kinder, gentler politics in action, although it does sum up my mood after seeing the result of the vote on Tuesday
It was irony mate
On that specific measure Jacob Rees Mogg can be exempted from such an accusation (of hypocrisy).
Boris Johnson is only a role model for old Etonians and Boris can afford to pay for the myriad of children he is the daddy of.
It's a scary thought to think of so many kids of this Buffon in the gene pool.
When my son and daughter decided to work at a supermarket for a few months because their work in Hospitality and theatres stopped because of COVID-19, they couldn't believe the amount of wasted food.
There is no excuse in our society for kids to go Hungry.
I wonder how many MP's, past or present and from all sides of the political spectrum are guilty of hypocrisy?
But this vote not to help children is now.
A comparison is you can't let off Matt Southall because Tanoon Nimer does it too.
In the hungry children issue this week what is wrong is plain wrong.
I am sure the anti Rashford backlash will come, but right now he is a hero of our time
Apart from those often very decent people who can't have children, then any fool can have them.
You have to learn for ages, and have a theory and practical test in order to be able to drive a car, but a quick bonk can produce a child.
I can't see an easy answer, unless we have Victorian levels of disapproval regarding bonking matters, but even then you only have to be aware of the work of Charles Dickens to realise the Victorians didn't have the answers.
Who says it takes one person to have a child but a village to rear one?
Are we not all responsible, due to an unwritten and unspoken covenant with God or nature or whatever, to care for all children even if they're not our own? Or at least to look out for children and have their backs, or be their wingman or woman until they get to around 17 years old?
Conservative MP for North Devon there.