Note (As I referenced with Sage’s earlier post please take care in alleging Nepotism. It does not exist in isolation. If you assert his sons employment is nepotism then Messrs Avory & Adkins can but have been complicit.
Out of interest why would Avory as academy director be in any way complicit in Ged Roddy's.son getting a professional contract? Are you suggesting that Avory is also at the recruitment table for our professional squad? I thought he just looked after the youth side of things.
Ged Roddy is an extremely talented & successful strategist. He is a talented academic who played a large part in developing a sports university for young sporting talent at Team Bath where he had hands on experience at levels 7-9 of the football pyramid.
How many people around non-league football saw this particular chapter in Roddy's story.
Ged Roddy is an extremely talented & successful strategist. He is a talented academic who played a large part in developing a sports university for young sporting talent at Team Bath where he had hands on experience at levels 7-9 of the football pyramid.
How many people around non-league football saw this particular chapter in Roddy's story.
@Grapevine49 that is a fantastic post I congratulate you on your explanation of the situation as you see it, and I thank you for sharing your knowledge so clearly. Being one of the positive crowd all the way tbh even I was starting to wobble and get downbeat after such hope had been sowed for this season. After reading your post maybe it will be a case of going backwards before we can move forwards.
I mean, it's a very Grapevine post there but unfortunately it's a lot of words to say absolutely nothing of value.
It's quite obvious there is some kind of strategy in place. It's much less obvious what that strategy actually IS. On current evidence, it appears that whatever said strategy might be is not working - performances across the team have regressed. That's not speculation. Two goals scored and four conceded is poor by any standard.
I also have to take issue with praising or even satisfaction about the quality of the CEO given there isn't one. If it was in reference to Sandgaard himself, it is still an odd statement given he is only in the country ocassionally and very inexperienced in actually running a football club. His intentions seem laudable enough and his motives are surely good... But the execution is lacking.
Ged Roddy is an extremely talented & successful strategist. He is a talented academic who played a large part in developing a sports university for young sporting talent at Team Bath where he had hands on experience at levels 7-9 of the football pyramid.
How many people around non-league football saw this particular chapter in Roddy's story.
I would be reluctant to base much trust in any events at Reading, good or bad, during the course of a number of years, or pass judgement on any of the people who have been in or out.
I have direct professional experience of people and events there. It was (and potentially still is as I no longer have any involvement) an absolute basket case off the field. Not quite Charlton 2020 standards but not far off some of the shenanigans there. The only reason it's never got more attention is because the fanbase has never truly driven the agenda like has happened with us and other clubs.
I wouldn't hold weight in anyone's opinion and there is a fair chance that charlatans flourished and good people did not given what's been at play there.
I'm much more interested in Roddy at CAFC than at RFC.
In dealing with such emerging talent he was identified as the person to design and implement the Premier League Elite Player Performance Plan. Over 8yrs It was an impressive piece of work proving to be a notable success at a PL level.
Might've been a notable success at Premier League level, but screwed over the clubs lower down the pyramid.
[A long detailed post - please don't quote it in full - AW]
@Grapevine49 my post is meant entirely respectfully and not meant to be in any way patronising so please take it in the spirit it's meant.
I recall you and I both vehemently defended ESI whilst others were calling them out and perhaps because we want it to be true and want to see the best in others.
I infer from your wisdom and widely lauded posts on here over the years that you come from a highly accomplished professional background and were likely very competent and successful in your fields with colleagues who shared those attributes.
I think that you may therefore generously apply the same qualities and characteristics inherent in established and successful corporate entities to football ownerships and view them through that lens.
However if the past decade has taught me anything the "business" of football and an uncomfortable majority of those running clubs are the complete anthises of sensible business models and strategies and competent corporate governance and execution.
As logical and rational as it may be to view Charlton owners through a competent corporate lens the whole model is madness in 2021.
It is a loss making venture that would be nigh impossible to sell to investors or placate shareholders with in other industries and is seemingly impossible to compete without throwing good money after bad without extreme fortunes of money and luck or a bona fide strategy that few in the game seem to design let alone execute successfully.
And it's a results driven business. TS is new to the game and it would appear very green. He doesn't have the luxury of Duchatelet's billions to buy time and learn from mistakes (albeit he has the earnest charm and likeability to deflect them) and he will not be able or willing to fund 7 or 8 figure losses on an ongoing basis for years to come.
Whilst I may be way off the mark and perhaps this set of executives/ management coalition or whatever it may be will buck the trend and do have a concrete, defined and workable strategy that everyone is on board with, the last decade has shown me that it may not be the case and that gut instinct and cautious cynicism is the best approach until tangible goals ie a competitive squad are there as evidence of success or at least the foundations.
This transfer window along with the other off the field individually trivial matters are indicating that we're perhaps not quite there yet in terms of having the foundations of a successful strategy... if it is even known what that strategy is or will look like, and it's mildly concerning a year into the ownership that that may be the case.
May be I am being catastrophic but it wouldn't surprise me if TS walks in a year citing personal reasons or something. (We will all blame each other for not being supportive enough on twitter and forums no doubt if so!). Pure pie in the sky pessimism from me hopefully but based on the past ten years and the fact why a) i can't understand how anyone without bottomless pockets can fund a club long term incurring such losses and b) the lack of apparent strategy in terms of squad build this summer to get us out of the loss making pit of league one
I really hope I'm being a miserable cynical moaner in my reluctance to keep the faith and hope in a seemingly far nicer and genuine ownership than we've previously endured but by being good guys doesn't mean they're equipped to navigate the treacherous road of engish football in 2021 that has chewed up and spat out many bigger boys than our lot.
All we can do is give our lads support on matchdays a hope for the best off the pitch I suppose.
But something feels quite off at present and not the incarnation of the brave new chapter many of us envisaged a year ago or even up to a few weeks ago.
I was going to say RCT, that I think you’re ESI has experience has made you go the other way in the other directions, more out of defence then what’s materially going on
Ged Roddy is an extremely talented & successful strategist. He is a talented academic who played a large part in developing a sports university for young sporting talent at Team Bath where he had hands on experience at levels 7-9 of the football pyramid.
How many people around non-league football saw this particular chapter in Roddy's story.
I was going to say RCT, that I think you’re ESI has experience has made you go the other way in the other directions, more out of defence then what’s materially going on
You're very much probably right there mate and I hope that is the case.
Released by Southampton at 16 is no disgrace. Two years at Bradford College then a Professional contract at a league one club. You can understand why questions are being asked and eyebrows raised.
I was released by Arsenal at 16. Would love to throw my hat in the mix for this token left back spot, but unfortunately I’m currently ruled out by a ruptured waistline injury.
Released by Southampton at 16 is no disgrace. Two years at Bradford College then a Professional contract at a league one club. You can understand why questions are being asked and eyebrows raised.
I was released by Arsenal at 16. Would love to throw my hat in the mix for this token left back spot, but unfortunately I’m currently ruled out by a ruptured waistline injury.
One thing is patently clear. The last few years has undermined our trust in pretty much anyone that comes near our football club. We treat them with suspicion until proved worthy of our trust.
Think we need to calm down with the witch hunt, results aren’t going our way atm but no need to jump on the Roddy out bandwagon. We’ve got stability, we’ve got a good owner and manager.
Some of our fans are scorned by the past but just take a deep breath, me included 😂 and wait until the end of this window.
One thing is patently clear. The last few years has undermined our trust in pretty much anyone that comes near our football club. We treat them with suspicion until proved worthy of our trust.
I’m not sure it’s quite that, Sandgaard was treated largely with trust from Day 1.
I just think we’ve had such a run of disappointment and negative outcomes we just haven’t got much resistance built up anymore as a collective fanbase. It’s been 15 years where it’s largely been disappointment, underperformance and protest, supplemented with maybe just 3 or 4 decent seasons in that time. And the last two have been particularly strained and poor.
It’s come quicker in this cycle as there has been a raising of hopes and expectations, and the showing (so far) is quickly pointing to that being ill-founded.
One thing is patently clear. The last few years has undermined our trust in pretty much anyone that comes near our football club. We treat them with suspicion until proved worthy of our trust.
There is a lot of, what I can only describe as PTSD from the last 7 years, and it doesn’t take much to get people’s levels of anxiety to raise quickly and the defence kicks in.
The start hasn’t been wonderful, and the transfer business not as spectacular as others, so the hair triggers have gone off. Charlton Twitter is just a fucking cesspit compared to even the more extreme posts on here
My grumpiness yesterday has nothing to do with mistrusting individuals, and entirely down to a lousy transfer window so far, delivering a very poor team
I think the difference here is between trust and confidence. There is broad trust in TS because his takeover could not be based entirely on self-interest and was accompanied by a high level of engagement with fans in which he came across well and his Danish heritage mitigated any concerns about American cultural differences. His business background is a positive but not overwhelmingly so because of the very different nature of the business (see also RD).
Confidence accumulates over time based on experience and actual outcomes are in relatively short supply, both in respect of the football and the rest of the business. There are various pointers we could debate, some clear wins and some likely mistakes, but we do not really have any outcomes on or off the pitch, allowing for last season being problematic in terms of timing. We do have stability but also a measure of clinging to the status quo ante, which was itself very unsatisfactory.
i have every respect for Grapevine, but RCT makes the very valid point that he defended ESI in similar terms, which if I recall were around the unreasonableness of us questioning their high level business strategy. This deliberately eschewed the human element. It was in fact quite clear from the beginning to anyone who made a serious examination that the ESI cohort were, at best, a bunch of chancers. This was clear in December 2019 but people would not hear it because they did not want more “negativity”. In turn this had the effect of stifling ESI’s exposure. This was not healthy.
It was in fact perfectly reasonable to look at Southall’s history and behaviour and conclude that he was not going to run a successful club.
Nobody is suggesting that TS’s motives should be questioned or that the set-up now is comparable to ESI, but it is perfectly reasonable to look at outcomes and ask questions about the mismatch between the expectation created and the delivery. In fact it is inevitable that this will happen if the team continues to fail.
The current focus on Roddy is largely deflection. It’s the same approach that led to people blaming Mervyn Day rather than Alan Curbishley, or staff rather than Richard Murray, for things they didn’t like. But it doesn’t mean there aren’t issues in the senior structure that are contributing to poor outcomes. It is very likely that budget has also been a problem.
Until there are substantive outcomes that people can relate to this regime there can only be a limited basis for confidence. Insofar as accountability exists at a football club, it rests entirely with TS since he appointed Roddy, Adkins and Mumford and positions himself as CEO, as well as sole owner. He can’t have the credit without it.
Released by Southampton at 16 is no disgrace. Two years at Bradford College then a Professional contract at a league one club. You can understand why questions are being asked and eyebrows raised.
I was released by Arsenal at 16. Would love to throw my hat in the mix for this token left back spot, but unfortunately I’m currently ruled out by a ruptured waistline injury.
Are you saying the only way you’ll pass the CL height test is lying down?
One thing is patently clear. The last few years has undermined our trust in pretty much anyone that comes near our football club. We treat them with suspicion until proved worthy of our trust.
I’m not sure it’s quite that, Sandgaard was treated largely with trust from Day 1.
I just think we’ve had such a run of disappointment and negative outcomes we just haven’t got much resistance built up anymore as a collective fanbase. It’s been 15 years where it’s largely been disappointment, underperformance and protest, supplemented with maybe just 3 or 4 decent seasons in that time. And the last two have been particularly strained and poor.
It’s come quicker in this cycle as there has been a raising of hopes and expectations, and the showing (so far) is quickly pointing to that being ill-founded.
Just my take on it
Sandgaard was different, we got to know him before he bought the club. There were a series of interviews in which he talked about his ambitious plans and showed a lot excitement for where he could take us. When the takeover went through he was then seen as the saviour of the club.
Complex and long running problems rarely if ever have simple or easy solutions as events in Kabul show only this week. There isn't a quick fix to the deep structural problems and league status that previous owners have left for TS to clean up.
This is a new leadership team so they are still, possibly going through those forming and storming stages of Tuckman's model. The aim is to get to norming (ie setting out who does what and what the internal rules/boundaries are) and then on to performing (getting outcomes) but the first two stages are required steps.
From the outside it looks like the team and so club is still at storming ie working through who is best at each job, who has the power, who makes decisions, who defers to others? That's normal. Good teams move through that stage quickly but others can get stuck in it for ever.
I think the model Grapevine describes is fine but he mentions a CEO. We don't really have a CEO, we have a owner trying to be CEO from thousands of miles away. That leaves a vacuum day to day and means that the "storming" continues much longer than it should.
The things being said about Roddy may or not be true but it is telling that when Jacob Roddy was signed I mentioned it on a inbox conversation here on CL and remarked that I was surprised that almost no one had picked up on the potential nepotism. Now results are poor it has become an issue and from what I hear not just with fans. Whether that is fair or not is another question.
In what seems like an age ago I was derided for reducing the debate on Karl Robinson to just three words but I think the same three words apply now to the current manager and recruitment panel.
Comments
Out of interest why would Avory as academy director be in any way complicit in Ged Roddy's.son getting a professional contract? Are you suggesting that Avory is also at the recruitment table for our professional squad? I thought he just looked after the youth side of things.
https://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/30-Clubs/4823-university-challenge
Being one of the positive crowd all the way tbh even I was starting to wobble and get downbeat after such hope had been sowed for this season. After reading your post maybe it will be a case of going backwards before we can move forwards.
Only have to look at the likes of Maurizio Pochettino or Andrea Mancini for two.
The idea that Roddy was given just as much chance as the next 18 year old is farcical.
I wonder what his wages are compared to the other youth players, would make for very interesting discussions in the changing room I'm sure.
It's quite obvious there is some kind of strategy in place. It's much less obvious what that strategy actually IS. On current evidence, it appears that whatever said strategy might be is not working - performances across the team have regressed. That's not speculation. Two goals scored and four conceded is poor by any standard.
I also have to take issue with praising or even satisfaction about the quality of the CEO given there isn't one. If it was in reference to Sandgaard himself, it is still an odd statement given he is only in the country ocassionally and very inexperienced in actually running a football club. His intentions seem laudable enough and his motives are surely good... But the execution is lacking.
I have direct professional experience of people and events there. It was (and potentially still is as I no longer have any involvement) an absolute basket case off the field. Not quite Charlton 2020 standards but not far off some of the shenanigans there. The only reason it's never got more attention is because the fanbase has never truly driven the agenda like has happened with us and other clubs.
I wouldn't hold weight in anyone's opinion and there is a fair chance that charlatans flourished and good people did not given what's been at play there.
I'm much more interested in Roddy at CAFC than at RFC.
I recall you and I both vehemently defended ESI whilst others were calling them out and perhaps because we want it to be true and want to see the best in others.
I infer from your wisdom and widely lauded posts on here over the years that you come from a highly accomplished professional background and were likely very competent and successful in your fields with colleagues who shared those attributes.
I think that you may therefore generously apply the same qualities and characteristics inherent in established and successful corporate entities to football ownerships and view them through that lens.
However if the past decade has taught me anything the "business" of football and an uncomfortable majority of those running clubs are the complete anthises of sensible business models and strategies and competent corporate governance and execution.
As logical and rational as it may be to view Charlton owners through a competent corporate lens the whole model is madness in 2021.
It is a loss making venture that would be nigh impossible to sell to investors or placate shareholders with in other industries and is seemingly impossible to compete without throwing good money after bad without extreme fortunes of money and luck or a bona fide strategy that few in the game seem to design let alone execute successfully.
And it's a results driven business. TS is new to the game and it would appear very green. He doesn't have the luxury of Duchatelet's billions to buy time and learn from mistakes (albeit he has the earnest charm and likeability to deflect them) and he will not be able or willing to fund 7 or 8 figure losses on an ongoing basis for years to come.
Whilst I may be way off the mark and perhaps this set of executives/ management coalition or whatever it may be will buck the trend and do have a concrete, defined and workable strategy that everyone is on board with, the last decade has shown me that it may not be the case and that gut instinct and cautious cynicism is the best approach until tangible goals ie a competitive squad are there as evidence of success or at least the foundations.
This transfer window along with the other off the field individually trivial matters are indicating that we're perhaps not quite there yet in terms of having the foundations of a successful strategy... if it is even known what that strategy is or will look like, and it's mildly concerning a year into the ownership that that may be the case.
May be I am being catastrophic but it wouldn't surprise me if TS walks in a year citing personal reasons or something. (We will all blame each other for not being supportive enough on twitter and forums no doubt if so!). Pure pie in the sky pessimism from me hopefully but based on the past ten years and the fact why a) i can't understand how anyone without bottomless pockets can fund a club long term incurring such losses and b) the lack of apparent strategy in terms of squad build this summer to get us out of the loss making pit of league one
I really hope I'm being a miserable cynical moaner in my reluctance to keep the faith and hope in a seemingly far nicer and genuine ownership than we've previously endured but by being good guys doesn't mean they're equipped to navigate the treacherous road of engish football in 2021 that has chewed up and spat out many bigger boys than our lot.
All we can do is give our lads support on matchdays a hope for the best off the pitch I suppose.
But something feels quite off at present and not the incarnation of the brave new chapter many of us envisaged a year ago or even up to a few weeks ago.
You're very much probably right there mate and I hope that is the case.
Confidence accumulates over time based on experience and actual outcomes are in relatively short supply, both in respect of the football and the rest of the business. There are various pointers we could debate, some clear wins and some likely mistakes, but we do not really have any outcomes on or off the pitch, allowing for last season being problematic in terms of timing. We do have stability but also a measure of clinging to the status quo ante, which was itself very unsatisfactory.
i have every respect for Grapevine, but RCT makes the very valid point that he defended ESI in similar terms, which if I recall were around the unreasonableness of us questioning their high level business strategy. This deliberately eschewed the human element. It was in fact quite clear from the beginning to anyone who made a serious examination that the ESI cohort were, at best, a bunch of chancers. This was clear in December 2019 but people would not hear it because they did not want more “negativity”. In turn this had the effect of stifling ESI’s exposure. This was not healthy.
It was in fact perfectly reasonable to look at Southall’s history and behaviour and conclude that he was not going to run a successful club.
Nobody is suggesting that TS’s motives should be questioned or that the set-up now is comparable to ESI, but it is perfectly reasonable to look at outcomes and ask questions about the mismatch between the expectation created and the delivery. In fact it is inevitable that this will happen if the team continues to fail.
The current focus on Roddy is largely deflection. It’s the same approach that led to people blaming Mervyn Day rather than Alan Curbishley, or staff rather than Richard Murray, for things they didn’t like. But it doesn’t mean there aren’t issues in the senior structure that are contributing to poor outcomes. It is very likely that budget has also been a problem.
Ged Roddy sounds like an evil gnome.
Complex and long running problems rarely if ever have simple or easy solutions as events in Kabul show only this week. There isn't a quick fix to the deep structural problems and league status that previous owners have left for TS to clean up.
This is a new leadership team so they are still, possibly going through those forming and storming stages of Tuckman's model. The aim is to get to norming (ie setting out who does what and what the internal rules/boundaries are) and then on to performing (getting outcomes) but the first two stages are required steps.
From the outside it looks like the team and so club is still at storming ie working through who is best at each job, who has the power, who makes decisions, who defers to others? That's normal. Good teams move through that stage quickly but others can get stuck in it for ever.
I think the model Grapevine describes is fine but he mentions a CEO. We don't really have a CEO, we have a owner trying to be CEO from thousands of miles away. That leaves a vacuum day to day and means that the "storming" continues much longer than it should.
The things being said about Roddy may or not be true but it is telling that when Jacob Roddy was signed I mentioned it on a inbox conversation here on CL and remarked that I was surprised that almost no one had picked up on the potential nepotism. Now results are poor it has become an issue and from what I hear not just with fans. Whether that is fair or not is another question.
In what seems like an age ago I was derided for reducing the debate on Karl Robinson to just three words but I think the same three words apply now to the current manager and recruitment panel.
JUST WIN GAMES