I realise this was in jest but the reference to 2p per mile does encourage me to say again this price differential / benefit won’t survive for much longer.
A levy will emerge albeit the move to EV is inevitable (and appropriate).
I was a little surprised the budget didn’t say more on future plans in this space given the commentary on the need to fix the foundations etc. Maybe the next budget will say something instead.
It will say taxes on all car ownership, parking and use will rise as they’ve found another big black hole in the public finances caused by mass unemployment and higher interest rates brought about because they were left with an unknown black hole in their finances by the last government which their experienced economist Chancellor found.
The biggest problem for Electric cars is the infrastructure. The government can band about net zero targets all they like. But unless there is a concerted effort to create an infrastructure on a national level, akin to when they built the electricity transmission network, or water supply network for example then it will continue to stall. Just relying on a handful of private sector companies to install a few charging stations here or there is nowhere near enough. They should be digging up roads in every street in the country.
Would prefer the government spent my/our money on public transport and the users actually paid some of it back.
Live rural, you need your own transport. Most are not big earners I would imagine so affordability is key. Again, no real drive to install chargers all over the shop so any enforced change will hit some of the population very hard indeed.
Live rural, you need your own transport. Most are not big earners I would imagine so affordability is key. Again, no real drive to install chargers all over the shop so any enforced change will hit some of the population very hard indeed.
I've no idea what most rural dwellers earn, so can't comment on that, but what enforced change do you mean?
If it's that beyond 2035, production of new carbon emitting cars will cease in the UK, so you won't be able to buy one, I'd imagine EV's will be more affordable by then in relative terms as an alternative and more chargers will have been installed.
I also imagine thal the surface temperature of the earth will rise further over the next decade as greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere intensify, in part fuelled by the human activities of burning fossil fuels and animal agriculture.
I also imagine that, as a destabilised climate is a contributory factor in causing extreme weather, insurance premiums and taxes will rise as more will need to be spent on damage limitation and prevention measures.
But I don't imagine the global trend in moving away from carbon emitting car production in order to lower emissions will continue. I'm sure it will because the evidence of global temperature rise is overwhelming.
I realise this was in jest but the reference to 2p per mile does encourage me to say again this price differential / benefit won’t survive for much longer.
A levy will emerge albeit the move to EV is inevitable (and appropriate).
I was a little surprised the budget didn’t say more on future plans in this space given the commentary on the need to fix the foundations etc. Maybe the next budget will say something instead.
It will say taxes on all car ownership, parking and use will rise as they’ve found another big black hole in the public finances caused by mass unemployment and higher interest rates brought about because they were left with an unknown black hole in their finances by the last government which their experienced economist Chancellor found.
Everybody is cynical at times, look for more objective sources of information for your own good health.
Institute of Fiscal Studies - excellent information- do many vlogs now as everyone is doing it. Paul Johnson (IFS) advised before the current election that it was going to be tough whichever party got in.
Economics Help- one that I have been recently impressed with, gives a a detailed explanation of how we have got to where we are today without going into what to do next- he leaves that to you. Example- the one on housing/house prices/renting and why our kids can't buy and the rise of homelessness.
A replacement battery on a Tesla is £18,000 + - Who will buy one? Will there be piles of dead electric cars in the future?
13-18k currently.
It’s still a ridiculous amount of money to spend on a car that’s probably old enough for it to be showing its age in terms of wear and tear both inside and out. Completely unrealistic and still would be if that figure were to half.
How long do you reckon you wait in a queue this long at the pumps? 10 mins? At an electric charging station, even at a super quick one, it could be at least an hour
How long do you reckon you wait in a queue this long at the pumps? 10 mins? At an electric charging station, even at a super quick one, it could be at least an hour
Well it could be! You're right. But I could post photo's of chargers near me where I've yet to see a queue. The installers must wonder why they bothered!!! They'd be meaningless in isolation though. I'd need to post average waiting times if I wanted to prove something. I don't see that here, just a random queue.
Please see attached. Typical 'kick the can down the road' attitude from our government. Investigation of 2018 not providing a policy by 2021. We are relying on scrapyards to police themselves with regard to ecological recycling.
This is a potential disaster waiting to happen. Wish I could post the video of an EV on fire and its batteries exploding like mortars. I suspect taken down by EV producers.
Faraday Institute are ressearching the technology to recycle but not the process. Another red herring.
"Dear Sir
Please advise what measures are in place to deal with the disposal of batteries containing toxic chemicals, once over time they no longer charge, or in the event of vehicles being written off."
How long do you reckon you wait in a queue this long at the pumps? 10 mins? At an electric charging station, even at a super quick one, it could be at least an hour
Maybe they are queuing up for cheap plumbing supplies...!?
How long do you reckon you wait in a queue this long at the pumps? 10 mins? At an electric charging station, even at a super quick one, it could be at least an hour
Maybe they are queuing up for cheap plumbing supplies...!?
They are actually queuing up for very cheap electricity. 6 charging stations, all up to 300kW which is almost as fast as you get currently, and only 69p/kWh. Looks a bargain to me. What queue would you get if a garage consistently sold petrol for 20p/ltr below local prices ?
How long do you reckon you wait in a queue this long at the pumps? 10 mins? At an electric charging station, even at a super quick one, it could be at least an hour
Maybe they are queuing up for cheap plumbing supplies...!?
They are actually queuing up for very cheap electricity. 6 charging stations, all up to 300kW which is almost as fast as you get currently, and only 69p/kWh. Looks a bargain to me. What queue would you get if a garage consistently sold petrol for 20p/ltr below local prices ?
For context what are they saving in total by charging a car here rather than at a ‘normal’ fast charging point then?
I had thought it was relatively inexpensive to charge so how much is the saving ?
How long do you reckon you wait in a queue this long at the pumps? 10 mins? At an electric charging station, even at a super quick one, it could be at least an hour
Maybe they are queuing up for cheap plumbing supplies...!?
They are actually queuing up for very cheap electricity. 6 charging stations, all up to 300kW which is almost as fast as you get currently, and only 69p/kWh. Looks a bargain to me. What queue would you get if a garage consistently sold petrol for 20p/ltr below local prices ?
For context what are they saving in total by charging a car here rather than at a ‘normal’ fast charging point then?
I had thought it was relatively inexpensive to charge so how much is the saving ?
So compared with a 300kW charger @ 69p/kWh, the ESSO station just along Woolwich Rd has 50kW and 150kW @ 79p/kWh. A lamppost just past the flyover has 5kW charging for 49p which rises to 85p if started between 4pm and 7pm. On the peninsula there are a couple of chargers offering 7kW charging @ 52p/kWh. There are 4 more offering the same deal in the tube station car park. Shanklin high street car park (IoW) is 78p/kWh on an 50kW charger. All of this info comes from the Electroverse app. At home I pay roughly 25p/kWh on a 7kW charger when not getting free solar power.
How long do you reckon you wait in a queue this long at the pumps? 10 mins? At an electric charging station, even at a super quick one, it could be at least an hour
Maybe they are queuing up for cheap plumbing supplies...!?
They are actually queuing up for very cheap electricity. 6 charging stations, all up to 300kW which is almost as fast as you get currently, and only 69p/kWh. Looks a bargain to me. What queue would you get if a garage consistently sold petrol for 20p/ltr below local prices ?
For context what are they saving in total by charging a car here rather than at a ‘normal’ fast charging point then?
I had thought it was relatively inexpensive to charge so how much is the saving ?
So compared with a 300kW charger @ 69p/kWh, the ESSO station just along Woolwich Rd has 50kW and 150kW @ 79p/kWh. A lamppost just past the flyover has 5kW charging for 49p which rises to 85p if started between 4pm and 7pm. On the peninsula there are a couple of chargers offering 7kW charging @ 52p/kWh. There are 4 more offering the same deal in the tube station car park. All of this info comes from the Electroverse app. At home I pay roughly 25p/kWh on a 7kW charger when not getting free solar power.
I really meant the total saving. I’ve no real concept of how long these people are at the charging point.
Live rural, you need your own transport. Most are not big earners I would imagine so affordability is key. Again, no real drive to install chargers all over the shop so any enforced change will hit some of the population very hard indeed.
I've no idea what most rural dwellers earn, so can't comment on that, but what enforced change do you mean?
If it's that beyond 2035, production of new carbon emitting cars will cease in the UK, so you won't be able to buy one, I'd imagine EV's will be more affordable by then in relative terms as an alternative and more chargers will have been installed.
I also imagine thal the surface temperature of the earth will rise further over the next decade as greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere intensify, in part fuelled by the human activities of burning fossil fuels and animal agriculture.
I also imagine that, as a destabilised climate is a contributory factor in causing extreme weather, insurance premiums and taxes will rise as more will need to be spent on damage limitation and prevention measures.
But I don't imagine the global trend in moving away from carbon emitting car production in order to lower emissions will continue. I'm sure it will because the evidence of global temperature rise is overwhelming.
Forced change, 2035. Not sure the manufacturing powerhouses are too bothered. Beijing had to halt manufacturing to host the Olympics due to smog. Think Deli had issues with smog recently. Yet I have to embrace a mode of transport which for my needs would be very expensive and not very practical currently.
10 years to improve the infrastructure for charging?, you are having a laugh. Can barely get on the fecking Internet such is rural infrastructure.
Also, admittedly fossil fuels have to go at some point but how can all the electricity required be generated? It should be a progression not mandated.
How long do you reckon you wait in a queue this long at the pumps? 10 mins? At an electric charging station, even at a super quick one, it could be at least an hour
Maybe they are queuing up for cheap plumbing supplies...!?
They are actually queuing up for very cheap electricity. 6 charging stations, all up to 300kW which is almost as fast as you get currently, and only 69p/kWh. Looks a bargain to me. What queue would you get if a garage consistently sold petrol for 20p/ltr below local prices ?
How long do you reckon you wait in a queue this long at the pumps? 10 mins? At an electric charging station, even at a super quick one, it could be at least an hour
Maybe they are queuing up for cheap plumbing supplies...!?
They are actually queuing up for very cheap electricity. 6 charging stations, all up to 300kW which is almost as fast as you get currently, and only 69p/kWh. Looks a bargain to me. What queue would you get if a garage consistently sold petrol for 20p/ltr below local prices ?
For context what are they saving in total by charging a car here rather than at a ‘normal’ fast charging point then?
I had thought it was relatively inexpensive to charge so how much is the saving ?
So compared with a 300kW charger @ 69p/kWh, the ESSO station just along Woolwich Rd has 50kW and 150kW @ 79p/kWh. A lamppost just past the flyover has 5kW charging for 49p which rises to 85p if started between 4pm and 7pm. On the peninsula there are a couple of chargers offering 7kW charging @ 52p/kWh. There are 4 more offering the same deal in the tube station car park. All of this info comes from the Electroverse app. At home I pay roughly 25p/kWh on a 7kW charger when not getting free solar power.
I really meant the total saving. I’ve no real concept of how long these people are at the charging point.
You are putting kWhours into your car so the price per kWhour is the measurement of cost that you compare like the price per litre of fossil fuel.
How long do you reckon you wait in a queue this long at the pumps? 10 mins? At an electric charging station, even at a super quick one, it could be at least an hour
Maybe they are queuing up for cheap plumbing supplies...!?
They are actually queuing up for very cheap electricity. 6 charging stations, all up to 300kW which is almost as fast as you get currently, and only 69p/kWh. Looks a bargain to me. What queue would you get if a garage consistently sold petrol for 20p/ltr below local prices ?
For context what are they saving in total by charging a car here rather than at a ‘normal’ fast charging point then?
I had thought it was relatively inexpensive to charge so how much is the saving ?
So compared with a 300kW charger @ 69p/kWh, the ESSO station just along Woolwich Rd has 50kW and 150kW @ 79p/kWh. A lamppost just past the flyover has 5kW charging for 49p which rises to 85p if started between 4pm and 7pm. On the peninsula there are a couple of chargers offering 7kW charging @ 52p/kWh. There are 4 more offering the same deal in the tube station car park. Shanklin high street car park (IoW) is 78p/kWh on an 50kW charger. All of this info comes from the Electroverse app. At home I pay roughly 25p/kWh on a 7kW charger when not getting free solar power.
Don't forget to add £20k to that equation every battery life. Plus cost of purchase over alternatives.
How long do you reckon you wait in a queue this long at the pumps? 10 mins? At an electric charging station, even at a super quick one, it could be at least an hour
Maybe they are queuing up for cheap plumbing supplies...!?
They are actually queuing up for very cheap electricity. 6 charging stations, all up to 300kW which is almost as fast as you get currently, and only 69p/kWh. Looks a bargain to me. What queue would you get if a garage consistently sold petrol for 20p/ltr below local prices ?
For context what are they saving in total by charging a car here rather than at a ‘normal’ fast charging point then?
I had thought it was relatively inexpensive to charge so how much is the saving ?
So compared with a 300kW charger @ 69p/kWh, the ESSO station just along Woolwich Rd has 50kW and 150kW @ 79p/kWh. A lamppost just past the flyover has 5kW charging for 49p which rises to 85p if started between 4pm and 7pm. On the peninsula there are a couple of chargers offering 7kW charging @ 52p/kWh. There are 4 more offering the same deal in the tube station car park. All of this info comes from the Electroverse app. At home I pay roughly 25p/kWh on a 7kW charger when not getting free solar power.
I really meant the total saving. I’ve no real concept of how long these people are at the charging point.
You are putting kWhours into your car so the price per kWhour is the measurement of cost that you compare like the price per litre of fossil fuel.
I’m not trying to be funny. I thought the observation was they may be queuing here to notably financially benefit.
As I don’t really know how long you charge for at these fast points (and hence the queue) what’s the cash benefit versus going to another charging point?
I’m trying to appreciate if it’s a tenner or 10p they are saving to justify the queue.
How long do you reckon you wait in a queue this long at the pumps? 10 mins? At an electric charging station, even at a super quick one, it could be at least an hour
Maybe they are queuing up for cheap plumbing supplies...!?
They are actually queuing up for very cheap electricity. 6 charging stations, all up to 300kW which is almost as fast as you get currently, and only 69p/kWh. Looks a bargain to me. What queue would you get if a garage consistently sold petrol for 20p/ltr below local prices ?
For context what are they saving in total by charging a car here rather than at a ‘normal’ fast charging point then?
I had thought it was relatively inexpensive to charge so how much is the saving ?
So compared with a 300kW charger @ 69p/kWh, the ESSO station just along Woolwich Rd has 50kW and 150kW @ 79p/kWh. A lamppost just past the flyover has 5kW charging for 49p which rises to 85p if started between 4pm and 7pm. On the peninsula there are a couple of chargers offering 7kW charging @ 52p/kWh. There are 4 more offering the same deal in the tube station car park. All of this info comes from the Electroverse app. At home I pay roughly 25p/kWh on a 7kW charger when not getting free solar power.
I really meant the total saving. I’ve no real concept of how long these people are at the charging point.
You are putting kWhours into your car so the price per kWhour is the measurement of cost that you compare like the price per litre of fossil fuel.
I’m not trying to be funny. I thought the observation was they may be queuing here to notably financially benefit.
As I don’t really know how long you charge for at these fast points (and hence the queue) what’s the cash benefit versus going to another charging point?
I’m trying to appreciate if it’s a tenner or 10p they are saving to justify the queue.
My Volvo has a 69kWh battery. To ‘fill it up’, every 1p saved on kWh price will save me 69p.
So compared to 79p/kWh I save :- £6.90 @ 69p/kWh £18.63 @ 52p/kWh £37.26 @ 25p/kWh
Live rural, you need your own transport. Most are not big earners I would imagine so affordability is key. Again, no real drive to install chargers all over the shop so any enforced change will hit some of the population very hard indeed.
I've no idea what most rural dwellers earn, so can't comment on that, but what enforced change do you mean?
If it's that beyond 2035, production of new carbon emitting cars will cease in the UK, so you won't be able to buy one, I'd imagine EV's will be more affordable by then in relative terms as an alternative and more chargers will have been installed.
I also imagine thal the surface temperature of the earth will rise further over the next decade as greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere intensify, in part fuelled by the human activities of burning fossil fuels and animal agriculture.
I also imagine that, as a destabilised climate is a contributory factor in causing extreme weather, insurance premiums and taxes will rise as more will need to be spent on damage limitation and prevention measures.
But I don't imagine the global trend in moving away from carbon emitting car production in order to lower emissions will continue. I'm sure it will because the evidence of global temperature rise is overwhelming.
Forced change, 2035. Not sure the manufacturing powerhouses are too bothered. Beijing had to halt manufacturing to host the Olympics due to smog. Think Deli had issues with smog recently. Yet I have to embrace a mode of transport which for my needs would be very expensive and not very practical currently.
10 years to improve the infrastructure for charging?, you are having a laugh. Can barely get on the fecking Internet such is rural infrastructure.
Also, admittedly fossil fuels have to go at some point but how can all the electricity required be generated? It should be a progression not mandated.
Really? If I was in the market for a new car, I'd expect the salesmen to be doing his utmost to sell me an EV, but not forcing me to buy one. It will be at least ten years before buying a carbon emitting car isn't an option if that's your preference. Much will have changed in the world before then.
You do make a valid point about the electricity though. I think we currently import 15-20%, so domestically developing renewables and nuclear will have much of the heavy lifting to do in reducing that dependency and satisfying the increasing demand. The government must be planning for it.
It would be great if we could convert all the negativity expressed about EV's on this forum and elsewhere into electricity so that particular problem could be solved.
So, I’m rapidly approaching the point where I will need to make a decision on whether to pay off the finance for a car that’s worth significantly more or trade it in for the next one. It was an easy dismiss for electric cars last time around but I thought it would be an easier option to choose this time. My pointing out the bleeding obvious posts on the negative side of the switch to EV have been a long part of that process in an attempt to get somebody to come back with some really positive selling points about buying an EV. Sadly, imo the EV aficionados and zealots have been failing miserably on that score. I’m still going to include EVs on the initial list of what to get because distance driving isn’t necessarily a deal breaker for me and, when you live near two tube lines, the mainline train service and choice is exceptional by most standards, neither is the prospect of having to repeatedly charge the car (which like my neighbours I could do off-road). However, I’m still not convinced the UK is ready for a critical mass of EV cars that have the technology at present unless there is some radical intervention by the government in the cost of the cars and the generation and cost of electricity.
we are on our 2nd fully electric 3 years Nissan Leaf and now 2 years into an Mg ZS
We don’t have a fitted charger, we just plug into an extension lead in our garage.
We like :
Cars are nice and nippy, ride well, quiet.
Costs - missus uses the EV for her daily commute to work (10miles each way) and save quite a bit from when she used an ICE car for same journey. spend about 30 a month more on our lease than our last car - Qashqai
We dislike: range envy. Annoying if you want to be spontaneous and suddenly decide want to go down to the coast, and knowing you will have to charge up on way home.
Waiting for a charger at service station - still woeful lack of chargers at service stations. Might have to wait 45 mins or an hour to get onto one. Battery depreciation in winter. Our car goes from 210 miles fully charged in summer down to 140 miles fully charged in winter
Overall we like them, but would never contemplate one of was unable to charge at home
we are on our 2nd fully electric 3 years Nissan Leaf and now 2 years into an Mg ZS
We don’t have a fitted charger, we just plug into an extension lead in our garage.
We like :
Cars are nice and nippy, ride well, quiet.
Costs - missus uses the EV for her daily commute to work (10miles each way) and save quite a bit from when she used an ICE car for same journey. spend about 30 a month more on our lease than our last car - Qashqai
We dislike: range envy. Annoying if you want to be spontaneous and suddenly decide want to go down to the coast, and knowing you will have to charge up on way home.
Waiting for a charger at service station - still woeful lack of chargers at service stations. Might have to wait 45 mins or an hour to get onto one. Battery depreciation in winter. Our car goes from 210 miles fully charged in summer down to 140 miles fully charged in winter
Overall we like them, but would never contemplate one of was unable to charge at home
From our perspective we managed to cope with a 13amp plug charging lead for 10 months while we were waiting for stop/start building works to complete and install the 7kW charger. For 10 months we have always tried to keep the battery near 100% (not advised) because we never knew when we would need a longer trip or problems getting the charging lead to the car. Now that the 7kW charger is installed we are much more relaxed about charging, usually stopping at 80% (as advised) when we do charge it but are happy to leave at a much lower level (eg below 50%) because we know we can bring it up to a high level pretty quickly as charging is about 8 times as fast. We also know in an emergency we can go to a local public rapid charger.
I realise this was in jest but the reference to 2p per mile does encourage me to say again this price differential / benefit won’t survive for much longer.
A levy will emerge albeit the move to EV is inevitable (and appropriate).
I was a little surprised the budget didn’t say more on future plans in this space given the commentary on the need to fix the foundations etc. Maybe the next budget will say something instead.
It will say taxes on all car ownership, parking and use will rise as they’ve found another big black hole in the public finances caused by mass unemployment and higher interest rates brought about because they were left with an unknown black hole in their finances by the last government which their experienced economist Chancellor found.
Looks like they are about to find that other ‘black hole’ a little sooner than they expected. The government reaction, or no-action, to the Vauxhall closure could well be the trigger for the next one. the economist Reeves dominoes effect will be a doosey with this one.
Comments
If it's that beyond 2035, production of new carbon emitting cars will cease in the UK, so you won't be able to buy one, I'd imagine EV's will be more affordable by then in relative terms as an alternative and more chargers will have been installed.
I also imagine thal the surface temperature of the earth will rise further over the next decade as greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere intensify, in part fuelled by the human activities of burning fossil fuels and animal agriculture.
I also imagine that, as a destabilised climate is a contributory factor in causing extreme weather, insurance premiums and taxes will rise as more will need to be spent on damage limitation and prevention measures.
But I don't imagine the global trend in moving away from carbon emitting car production in order to lower emissions will continue. I'm sure it will because the evidence of global temperature rise is overwhelming.
Institute of Fiscal Studies - excellent information- do many vlogs now as everyone is doing it. Paul Johnson (IFS) advised before the current election that it was going to be tough whichever party got in.
Economics Help- one that I have been recently impressed with, gives a a detailed explanation of how we have got to where we are today without going into what to do next- he leaves that to you. Example- the one on housing/house prices/renting and why our kids can't buy and the rise of homelessness.
Expect there's some on cars as well.
Who will buy one?
Will there be piles of dead electric cars in the future?
How long do you reckon you wait in a queue this long at the pumps? 10 mins? At an electric charging station, even at a super quick one, it could be at least an hour
This is a potential disaster waiting to happen. Wish I could post the video of an EV on fire and its batteries exploding like mortars. I suspect taken down by EV producers.
Faraday Institute are ressearching the technology to recycle but not the process. Another red herring.
"Dear Sir
I had thought it was relatively inexpensive to charge so how much is the saving ?
At home I pay roughly 25p/kWh on a 7kW charger when not getting free solar power.
£18-£20++ at least by the time they need replacing.
So what is your answer? Would you buy a new battery ot junk your car?
Plus cost of purchase over alternatives.
£6.90 @ 69p/kWh
£18.63 @ 52p/kWh
£37.26 @ 25p/kWh
You do make a valid point about the electricity though. I think we currently import 15-20%, so domestically developing renewables and nuclear will have much of the heavy lifting to do in reducing that dependency and satisfying the increasing demand. The government must be planning for it.
It would be great if we could convert all the negativity expressed about EV's on this forum and elsewhere into electricity so that particular problem could be solved.
we are on our 2nd fully electric
3 years Nissan Leaf and now 2 years into an Mg ZS
We don’t have a fitted charger, we just plug into an extension lead in our garage.
spend about 30 a month more on our lease than our last car - Qashqai
We dislike:
range envy. Annoying if you want to be spontaneous and suddenly decide want to go down to the coast, and knowing you will have to charge up on way home.
Battery depreciation in winter. Our car goes from 210 miles fully charged in summer down to 140 miles fully charged in winter
Overall we like them, but would never contemplate one of was unable to charge at home