Personally, I think that a customer has the right to request a service that they deem reasonable and a business has the right to refuse to deliver that service if they profoundly disagree with it.
If it was my cake shop and I didn't like the "message" I would also refuse.
The message could say "support ISIS" or it could say "gays should be hung" and I'd refuse to do that lettering for example.
I suspect the same bakers would also refuse to add a message that gays should be executed.
This is why the ruling is spot on, and in my view why this kind of activism is entirely counterproductive.
Personally, I think that a customer has the right to request a service that they deem reasonable and a business has the right to refuse to deliver that service if they profoundly disagree with it.
If it was my cake shop and I didn't like the "message" I would also refuse.
The message could say "support ISIS" or it could say "gays should be hung" and I'd refuse to do that lettering for example.
I suspect the same bakers would also refuse to add a message that gays should be executed.
This is why the ruling is spot on, and in my view why this kind of activism is entirely counterproductive.
Personally, I think that a customer has the right to request a service that they deem reasonable and a business has the right to refuse to deliver that service if they profoundly disagree with it.
If it was my cake shop and I didn't like the "message" I would also refuse.
The message could say "support ISIS" or it could say "gays should be hung" and I'd refuse to do that lettering for example.
I suspect the same bakers would also refuse to add a message that gays should be executed.
This is why the ruling is spot on, and in my view why this kind of activism is entirely counterproductive.
Personally, I think that a customer has the right to request a service that they deem reasonable and a business has the right to refuse to deliver that service if they profoundly disagree with it.
If it was my cake shop and I didn't like the "message" I would also refuse.
The message could say "support ISIS" or it could say "gays should be hung" and I'd refuse to do that lettering for example.
I suspect the same bakers would also refuse to add a message that gays should be executed.
This is why the ruling is spot on, and in my view why this kind of activism is entirely counterproductive.
It didn't seem a fight worth having.
Someone who did funded it.
That's their right - we live in a freeish society.
Excellent, balanced opinion piece by (of all people) Peter Tatchell in The Times today. Basically points out that if you deny the right to the bakers to refuse the slogan, you would have to deny a gay baker the right to refuse to put "I hate Gays" on a cake when asked.
Excellent, balanced opinion piece by (of all people) Peter Tatchell in The Times today. Basically points out that if you deny the right to the bakers to refuse the slogan, you would have to deny a gay baker the right to refuse to put "I hate Gays" on a cake when asked.
I think there should be a total ban on cake slogans.
Excellent, balanced opinion piece by (of all people) Peter Tatchell in The Times today. Basically points out that if you deny the right to the bakers to refuse the slogan, you would have to deny a gay baker the right to refuse to put "I hate Gays" on a cake when asked.
I think there should be a total ban on cake slogans.
I want to know what Ernie and bert have to say on the matter. Did they ever come out as gay, what are their rights if they are not or even if they but didn't want to come out. They might not even agree with gay marriage would they then have a case to sue?
I want to know what Ernie and bert have to say on the matter. Did they ever come out as gay, what are their rights if they are not or even if they but didn't want to come out. They might not even agree with gay marriage would they then have a case to sue?
The official answer to that is that they are just puppets.
Is the point being made that the bakery would refuse to make a cake stating 'Support heterosexual marriage'?
If not, surely some form of sexual discrimination is taking place!
Lady Hale added: "The bakers could not refuse to supply their goods to Mr Lee because he was a gay man or supported gay marriage, but that is quite different from obliging them to supply a cake iced with a message with which they profoundly disagreed."
It's the same thing, it's homeophobic however you look at it. Blinded by religion.
Is the point being made that the bakery would refuse to make a cake stating 'Support heterosexual marriage'?
If not, surely some form of sexual discrimination is taking place!
Lady Hale added: "The bakers could not refuse to supply their goods to Mr Lee because he was a gay man or supported gay marriage, but that is quite different from obliging them to supply a cake iced with a message with which they profoundly disagreed."
It's the same thing, it's homeophobic however you look at it. Blinded by religion.
It's not the same thing, hence the lawful decision by the judges.
Was the complainant a genuine customer or was the whole thing a set up by an activist?
Mr Lee had no claim against Ashers on the grounds of religious belief or political opinion, but speaking outside of court, the customer said: "This was never a campaign. I had no idea when I ordered the cake that this would happen."
Fair enough. It just seems completely over the top that both sides would go to these lengths over a birthday cake.
Would love to ask this baker if he would make a cake with a few sentences from Leviticus, especially the ones about stoning and slavery.
probably not although don't know why anyone would want slogans of the torah on a cake, as a staunch protestant ( I'm assuming ) he does not agree with gay marriage - so can see his reasons for not wanting to print it - fair play to him for turning business away and considering his beliefs more important.
as a bit of realism the republic of ireland 735,000 voted no in a gay marraige referendum, i do not think that 3/4 of a million people are "extremists" they just follow the christian faith and its values.
I'd love to ask the customer if he'd go in to a halal/Islamic bakery and ask for the same slogan to be piped.
would not even make the local newspaper - many muslim workers in supermarkets wear gloves when handling alcohol or refuse to even sell it, difference is this is not there business.
I'd love to ask the customer if he'd go in to a halal/Islamic bakery and ask for the same slogan to be piped.
would not even make the local newspaper - many muslim workers in supermarkets wear gloves when handling alcohol or refuse to even sell it, difference is this is not there business.
I'd love to ask the customer if he'd go in to a halal/Islamic bakery and ask for the same slogan to be piped.
would not even make the local newspaper - many muslim workers in supermarkets wear gloves when handling alcohol or refuse to even sell it, difference is this is not there business.
Seems pretty reasonable to me.
i'd accept your argument but there is certain sectors where non religous believers are not allowed to work
a halal, kosher factory can only be worked in by believers of that faith.
Comments
This is why the ruling is spot on, and in my view why this kind of activism is entirely counterproductive.
"Christian bakery legal team refused service by photography company ‘on moral grounds'"
https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/10/11/gay-cake-christian-institute-photography/
Did they ever come out as gay, what are their rights if they are not or even if they but didn't want to come out.
They might not even agree with gay marriage would they then have a case to sue?
Agree re the blinded by religion bit.
as a bit of realism the republic of ireland 735,000 voted no in a gay marraige referendum, i do not think that 3/4 of a million people are "extremists" they just follow the christian faith and its values.
a halal, kosher factory can only be worked in by believers of that faith.