Exactly - this season showed that you cannot overdo the trust and hope of "experience", over quality.
Pearce, Gunter, Pratley and Watson have all been captains in their life with a wealth of experience. I thought this would help us hold onto wins in games and see them out. Game Management, Leadership, Communication, etc.
Instead these exact individuals were the ones that brought on the panic in games, largely due to their ill positioning to cover up their flaws. Of course, these flaws can sometimes be covered if you're playing with players too good for a league, but we were not and are not likely to do so.
Darren Pratley can feel slightly hard done by, but he really shouldn't be surprised. Football is and has always been a cut throat business from the young kids at academies to senior pros at clubs. With the advent of foundations now who pick up young players who are released to the older pros its an insecure business with each contract cherished.
If Watson and Gunter didn't have the extra year then Prats may have got an extra year, But we desperately need to lower the age of our squad and it's just ironic that he gets less injuries than most of his younger colleges at Cafc.
We want top 2 now and we have to recruit players who can help achieve this. I'm still gob smacked what Darren was thinking of when already on a yellow card and after about 6 borderline fouls he put his hand into the players face early in the second half of a match at the valley when we were already behind.
The problem with Watson is despite the fact he did have a number of decent games( oh yes he did) in others he looked slower than JJ in his final season ( or even now !)
Given the choice of having both of them around, or just one of them around, I'm going with 'just one'
agree but definitely Pratley over Watson.
Agree but with Watson’s extension clause I think it probably wasn’t an option.
Under Bowyer maybe but Watson suits Adkins style more than Prats imho if it was a straight choice. They are different types of DM. I suspect Bow would have given him an extra year.
The reason I wanted Darren to stay as well is that there are games like Accrington and MKD where he has his uses in L1.
Having said that I too felt he played well in the Championship reminding me of Andy Hughes who similarly rolled back the years under Powell. Also Andy looked worse when paired with Mark Gower in the same way as Pratley and Watson didn't compliment each other.
I keep saying it, but when we walked this league under Powell we had Andy Hughes and Jason Euell in the squad. Neither started many games (I'm not sure if Euell started any) but both made a decent number of sub appearances and contributed. There is definitely room, in the type of squad we are trying to put together, for a couple of old heads. Out of all them in the squad last year, I think I'd ideally choose to keep Pearce and Pratley, they know the club well so could help new signings settle, both seem to have great attitudes and be well liked, and seem accepting they may have reduced roles in the team, but will run through brick walls if called upon. Unfortunately for Pratley we made some, in hindsight, poor decisions last year by giving Watson and Gunter more than a year's contract each and now he is paying the price for us likely not being able to offload those two.
A lot of the talk is about picking Watson or Pratley, but that's not really a choice as it seems Watson already is entitled to a new contract, so it's maybe more of a choice between Partely and Pearce as we could have chose to let both of them go. Pearce is club captain, a bit younger, and ended the season well so I think I agree with the club picking him to offer a new deal. He possibly has a big role to play in integrating the new signings.
Pratley is right though - to be 36 and basically only ever unavailable for selection if he is suspended is great testament to his genetics and how he looks after himself. Any club in League 1 or 2 looking to add a bit of steel and experience to their team could still do a lot worse than sign him up.
Whatever the big picture for the club next season he's a human being and being let go still hurts.
But there is an element of putting himself in the market with all those stats, which is understandable
Have the recruitment quartet make a mistake letting him go? I don't think so but that very much depends on who replaces him.
Putit this way, it's hard to envisage a circumstance where, this time next year, we're all left saying "this could have all worked out so much better if only we'd kept hold of Darren Pratley".
I wish Pratley all the best and I like that he considers a return to the Valley after retirement to be a possibility. But I can’t help but think Adkins may have considered him to be very much Lee Bowyer’s man. I imagine any manager wants one or two senior pros in his squad who he trusts, connects with and helps to put his stamp on the team. I feel Bowyer considered Pratley to be one of those characters for him. Maybe not so much Adkins. Lots of mutual respect appears to be there between Adkins and Pratley - DP was polite, professional and respectful in that interview, but no more than that. If you look back at his announcement on Twitter, he publicly thanked Bowyer, but didn’t mention NA at all. (Understandable I guess - he must have been upset at the time) But at the end of the day, if he’s not the senior pro Adkins wanted, then it was never going to work.
Hold your head up high Darren. Stepped up in the big games and always gave 100%. Wish you well for your future and hopefully see you back at the Valley in some capacity in the future
I liked DP and you can’t underestimate what he brought to the team so seeing him go was a bit of a blow but if we are to back NA to do the job he was brought in to do then we have to trust his judgment on which players he believes will fit his style of football
Reading what DP said, it looks to me that he thinks that his age is irrelevant or being used as an excuse.
If your the fittest, or one of the fittest, players at the club it doesn't matter if your 25, 35 or even 45.
I also don't buy into Pratley and Watson competing for one place in the squad. One place in the team yes. They are completely different players.
If NA isn't going to use Pratley as his 4th choice center back (which is a good thing BTW), using him to add muscle or to do a man marking job I don't see any reason to keep him.
Pratley played the most games, I think, of all the out field players. Quite often not through choice. With proper, fit, center halves and less light weight midfielders I don't think he would have played half the games he did.
Pratley is a player you want when you have less possession and are an underdog, not the sort you want if you plan to dominate the ball and the play consequently looking to get promoted, watson is very tidy in possession and fits a team wanting to get promoted, I can see the logic
Given the choice of having both of them around, or just one of them around, I'm going with 'just one'
agree but definitely Pratley over Watson.
No not on performance this season .... we saw how we missed Watson when he was out and the goals conceded in front of our back four ... Pratley done ok at Centre back but in mid was like a headless chicken and a sending off waiting to happen .. plus his passing was awful .. Watson a much calmer player who hardly gives the ball away
Given the choice of having both of them around, or just one of them around, I'm going with 'just one'
agree but definitely Pratley over Watson.
No not on performance this season .... we saw how we missed Watson when he was out and the goals conceded in front of our back four ... Pratley done ok at Centre back but in mid was like a headless chicken and a sending off waiting to happen .. plus his passing was awful .. Watson a much calmer player who hardly gives the ball away
Tbh would have liked both to have been released.
Prats has done a one a good job over the years but became a liability last season.
Watson was poor in the main and is going to be another year older and slower next season.
Given the choice of having both of them around, or just one of them around, I'm going with 'just one'
agree but definitely Pratley over Watson.
No not on performance this season .... we saw how we missed Watson when he was out and the goals conceded in front of our back four ... Pratley done ok at Centre back but in mid was like a headless chicken and a sending off waiting to happen .. plus his passing was awful .. Watson a much calmer player who hardly gives the ball away
Missing Watson... When was this? I read most of this board and don't recall ever reading the words "We miss Watson."
Considering he had the second lowest statbank score of any player to play 10+ games.
Pratley over Watson for me. A good honest pro and you know what you're getting from him. I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but as a club we seem to get a ridiculous amount of injuries each year. He was one player that never got injured and I actually think we could miss that more then anything
As this has now become the Watson V Pratley thread.......
I think, by and large, both have been decent to very good since March. I think with the exception of Cewe, which was probably 1 game too far for all 3 of our midfielders.
They didn't play together, Pratley didn't play at center back.
Watson is a far better footballer than Pratley and Pratley is a far better athlete than Watson. I think even Watson and Pratley would agree on that.
Watson will look better in a better, and more settled team. Without playing every 3 or 4 days. If we have a better team, we don't need Pratley. So if I had to keep one, and only one, it would be Watson. If we had got promoted however, I would have chosen Pratley.
I wish Pratley all the best and I like that he considers a return to the Valley after retirement to be a possibility. But I can’t help but think Adkins may have considered him to be very much Lee Bowyer’s man. I imagine any manager wants one or two senior pros in his squad who he trusts, connects with and helps to put his stamp on the team. I feel Bowyer considered Pratley to be one of those characters for him. Maybe not so much Adkins. Lots of mutual respect appears to be there between Adkins and Pratley - DP was polite, professional and respectful in that interview, but no more than that. If you look back at his announcement on Twitter, he publicly thanked Bowyer, but didn’t mention NA at all. (Understandable I guess - he must have been upset at the time) But at the end of the day, if he’s not the senior pro Adkins wanted, then it was never going to work.
Watson can pass the ball, I'd go as far to say he's one of our best passers of the ball. We were massively let down by players giving the ball away too easily this season.
Watson can pass the ball, I'd go as far to say he's one of our best passers of the ball. We were massively let down by players giving the ball away too easily this season.
The problem is that he isn't that good defensively as he's too slow. If we just want someone to sit deep and knock the ball around nicely, then I'd rather have Shinnie in the side or even bring back Matt Smith (the Arsenal one)
Watson can pass the ball, I'd go as far to say he's one of our best passers of the ball. We were massively let down by players giving the ball away too easily this season.
The problem is that he isn't that good defensively as he's too slow. If we just want someone to sit deep and knock the ball around nicely, then I'd rather have Shinnie in the side or even bring back Matt Smith (the Arsenal one)
Shinnie couldn't have done the job Watson did against Wigan, for example. Last season we had too many midfielders doing jobs that they weren't suited to.
With a distinct lack of all rounder midfielders a lot of them underperformed as a result. In fact I would say all of them, bar JFC did. I though the balance of Watson, JFC and Gilbey look quite good with Morgan able to rotate in. If we could get 2 players that are an upgrade of those 3 that would give you a very good six for league 1 IMO.
Given the choice of having both of them around, or just one of them around, I'm going with 'just one'
agree but definitely Pratley over Watson.
No not on performance this season .... we saw how we missed Watson when he was out and the goals conceded in front of our back four ... Pratley done ok at Centre back but in mid was like a headless chicken and a sending off waiting to happen .. plus his passing was awful .. Watson a much calmer player who hardly gives the ball away
Tbh would have liked both to have been released.
Prats has done a one a good job over the years but became a liability last season.
Watson was poor in the main and is going to be another year older and slower next season.
Pratley was never a liability. His lack of ability on the ball didn't help us in games when we needed to take control but aside from a couple of mistakes while out of position at CB with a full back next to him he always contributed and rarely let us down in regards to doing his job, which was to smash people up and make it hard for them to play. We definitely will benefit from getting in a player who can do more on the ball than Prats but a liability he was not.
Given the choice of having both of them around, or just one of them around, I'm going with 'just one'
agree but definitely Pratley over Watson.
No not on performance this season .... we saw how we missed Watson when he was out and the goals conceded in front of our back four ... Pratley done ok at Centre back but in mid was like a headless chicken and a sending off waiting to happen .. plus his passing was awful .. Watson a much calmer player who hardly gives the ball away
Tbh would have liked both to have been released.
Prats has done a one a good job over the years but became a liability last season.
Watson was poor in the main and is going to be another year older and slower next season.
Pratley was never a liability. His lack of ability on the ball didn't help us in games when we needed to take control but aside from a couple of mistakes while out of position at CB with a full back next to him he always contributed and rarely let us down in regards to doing his job, which was to smash people up and make it hard for them to play. We definitely will benefit from getting in a player who can do more on the ball than Prats but a liability he was not.
His sending off away to Hull? His mistake against Sunderland, his endless bookings/free kicks given away etc...
Comments
Pearce, Gunter, Pratley and Watson have all been captains in their life with a wealth of experience. I thought this would help us hold onto wins in games and see them out. Game Management, Leadership, Communication, etc.
Instead these exact individuals were the ones that brought on the panic in games, largely due to their ill positioning to cover up their flaws. Of course, these flaws can sometimes be covered if you're playing with players too good for a league, but we were not and are not likely to do so.
If Watson and Gunter didn't have the extra year then Prats may have got an extra year, But we desperately need to lower the age of our squad and it's just ironic that he gets less injuries than most of his younger colleges at Cafc.
We want top 2 now and we have to recruit players who can help achieve this.
I'm still gob smacked what Darren was thinking of when already on a yellow card and after about 6 borderline fouls he put his hand into the players face early in the second half of a match at the valley when we were already behind.
The problem with Watson is despite the fact he did have a number of decent games( oh yes he did) in others he looked slower than JJ in his final season ( or even now !)
The reason I wanted Darren to stay as well is that there are games like Accrington and MKD where he has his uses in L1.
Having said that I too felt he played well in the Championship reminding me of Andy Hughes who similarly rolled back the years under Powell. Also Andy looked worse when paired with Mark Gower in the same way as Pratley and Watson didn't compliment each other.
I never expected us to offer him a new contract, and I think we'd let Watson go too if we could.
Whatever the big picture for the club next season he's a human being and being let go still hurts.
But there is an element of putting himself in the market with all those stats, which is understandable
Have the recruitment quartet make a mistake letting him go? I don't think so but that very much depends on who replaces him.
Putit this way, it's hard to envisage a circumstance where, this time next year, we're all left saying "this could have all worked out so much better if only we'd kept hold of Darren Pratley".
But I can’t help but think Adkins may have considered him to be very much Lee Bowyer’s man. I imagine any manager wants one or two senior pros in his squad who he trusts, connects with and helps to put his stamp on the team. I feel Bowyer considered Pratley to be one of those characters for him. Maybe not so much Adkins.
Lots of mutual respect appears to be there between Adkins and Pratley - DP was polite, professional and respectful in that interview, but no more than that. If you look back at his announcement on Twitter, he publicly thanked Bowyer, but didn’t mention NA at all. (Understandable I guess - he must have been upset at the time)
But at the end of the day, if he’s not the senior pro Adkins wanted, then it was never going to work.
If your the fittest, or one of the fittest, players at the club it doesn't matter if your 25, 35 or even 45.
I also don't buy into Pratley and Watson competing for one place in the squad. One place in the team yes. They are completely different players.
If NA isn't going to use Pratley as his 4th choice center back (which is a good thing BTW), using him to add muscle or to do a man marking job I don't see any reason to keep him.
Pratley played the most games, I think, of all the out field players. Quite often not through choice. With proper, fit, center halves and less light weight midfielders I don't think he would have played half the games he did.
Prats has done a one a good job over the years but became a liability last season.
Watson was poor in the main and is going to be another year older and slower next season.
Considering he had the second lowest statbank score of any player to play 10+ games.
Still hope they're both being let go.
I think, by and large, both have been decent to very good since March. I think with the exception of Cewe, which was probably 1 game too far for all 3 of our midfielders.
They didn't play together, Pratley didn't play at center back.
Watson is a far better footballer than Pratley and Pratley is a far better athlete than Watson. I think even Watson and Pratley would agree on that.
Watson will look better in a better, and more settled team. Without playing every 3 or 4 days. If we have a better team, we don't need Pratley. So if I had to keep one, and only one, it would be Watson. If we had got promoted however, I would have chosen Pratley.
We were massively let down by players giving the ball away too easily this season.
With a distinct lack of all rounder midfielders a lot of them underperformed as a result. In fact I would say all of them, bar JFC did. I though the balance of Watson, JFC and Gilbey look quite good with Morgan able to rotate in. If we could get 2 players that are an upgrade of those 3 that would give you a very good six for league 1 IMO.
id rather have kept him than Watson but it’s probably time to say goodbye to both if we can.
His sending off away to Hull? His mistake against Sunderland, his endless bookings/free kicks given away etc...