Allardyce was sacked because he couldn't separate his own self interest and dodgy dealing from the job he was being paid to do. Why do you think he would behave any differently if he was employed by us? He is a moral pygmy compared to Alan Curbishley - who has demonstrated by his action against WHU that he is prepared to stand up for decent principles, even though it has led to his subsequent blackballing by other football clubs directors.
Some believe that the ends justify the means I don't. I think history justifies my position time and time again. If you do business with a chimney sweep you are bound to get dirty.
Don't actually think Big Sam was sacked I thought it was mutual agreement and he got a nice little pay off. Would you be able to provide any links that Mr Allardyce has actually being found guilty of an actual offence just so we can see history does justify your position.
Impressive move by Robbo. Good to have a progressive manager that does not think he is the fountain of all knowledge, recognised a problem, and has got in probably the best defensive coach in the country to help.
Always lots to learn and if you can get in straight from a person who has been there and done it, so much the better. Freshens up training as well. Solid.
that article is 3 years old and discusses men in jobs in the premier league ..
I am not convinced that Sam is any more 'dishonest' than many in football .. I suspect that the 'football industry' is stuffed to the roof with 'dishonest' people to a greater or lesser degree .. last point .. I am not advocating hiring rapists or murders to coach our naive and tender players (lol), but a rogue like Sam ? .. come on .. he'll be enlightening them about blocking and marking, not money laundering and fraud (I hope) ((:>)
Just on the day when our "old" player Eni Aluko was making me proud of Charlton, the current regime goes out to establish links with someone even the FA found to be disreputable in the end.
BTW doesn't Eni knock spots off our current CEO in practically every respect
Articulate Coherent Qualified professional Knowledge and experience of football Knowledge and experience of Charlton Prepared to stand up to dominating men Principled The sort of person who should be on the FA Council
I wonder if Katrien might show some sisterly solidarity and threaten to resign from the FA Council unless the current FA chair takes his share of responsibility and resigns?
Is that the old player Eni Aluko who had to leave the club after the club's board (chairman Martin Simmons, vice chairman Richard Murray and CEO Peter Varney) disbanded the woman's team as the men's team had been relegated from the PL?
Allardyce was sacked because he couldn't separate his own self interest and dodgy dealing from the job he was being paid to do. Why do you think he would behave any differently if he was employed by us? He is a moral pygmy compared to Alan Curbishley - who has demonstrated by his action against WHU that he is prepared to stand up for decent principles, even though it has led to his subsequent blackballing by other football clubs directors.
Some believe that the ends justify the means I don't. I think history justifies my position time and time again. If you do business with a chimney sweep you are bound to get dirty.
Not sure how you can stomach being a football supporter at all. Football from top to bottom is as grubby as anything possibly could be.
Allardyce was sacked because he couldn't separate his own self interest and dodgy dealing from the job he was being paid to do. Why do you think he would behave any differently if he was employed by us? He is a moral pygmy compared to Alan Curbishley - who has demonstrated by his action against WHU that he is prepared to stand up for decent principles, even though it has led to his subsequent blackballing by other football clubs directors.
Some believe that the ends justify the means I don't. I think history justifies my position time and time again. If you do business with a chimney sweep you are bound to get dirty.
Don't actually think Big Sam was sacked I thought it was mutual agreement and he got a nice little pay off. Would you be able to provide any links that Mr Allardyce has actually being found guilty of an actual offence just so we can see history does justify your position.
Read the papers and not just the red tops - there is also a distinction between what is legal and what is moral, or at least there should be in my opinion.
Allardyce was sacked because he couldn't separate his own self interest and dodgy dealing from the job he was being paid to do. Why do you think he would behave any differently if he was employed by us? He is a moral pygmy compared to Alan Curbishley - who has demonstrated by his action against WHU that he is prepared to stand up for decent principles, even though it has led to his subsequent blackballing by other football clubs directors.
Some believe that the ends justify the means I don't. I think history justifies my position time and time again. If you do business with a chimney sweep you are bound to get dirty.
Don't actually think Big Sam was sacked I thought it was mutual agreement and he got a nice little pay off. Would you be able to provide any links that Mr Allardyce has actually being found guilty of an actual offence just so we can see history does justify your position.
Read the papers and not just the red tops - there is also a distinction between what is legal and what is moral, or at least there should be in my opinion.
' Read the papers and not just the red tops' Well that's not insulting at all. I happen to read a great many papers , the Sun, the Mirror, The Mail, The Independent as well as the Guardian. Bit of a contradiction in terms those papers but I like to read views from all angles left, right and centre.
For my football fix I also read the Football League Paper. Ive yet to see Sam Allardyce actually found guilty of anything in any one of these papers. In terms of there being a distinction between moral and legal I applaud you and I agree but in this country we live by the system of innocent until proven guilty. So back to my original post which was in response to some citing 'history', I await the evidence
I see in today's papers thay Big Sam is being linked with the US national team - I see our "story" as no more than him saying "someone give me a proper job otherwise I'm stuck taking crap gigs with 3rd tier clubs"
I see in today's papers thay Big Sam is being linked with the US national team - I see our "story" as no more than him saying "someone give me a proper job otherwise I'm stuck taking crap gigs with 3rd tier clubs"
Only it wasn't Sam saying it, it was KR and it was just a "he may".
I see in today's papers thay Big Sam is being linked with the US national team - I see our "story" as no more than him saying "someone give me a proper job otherwise I'm stuck taking crap gigs with 3rd tier clubs"
Only it wasn't Sam saying it, it was KR and it was just a "he may".
Other than that all correct.
well at least he got his name right, Big Sam as opposed to Fat Sam in the thread title
' Read the papers and not just the red tops' - it wasn't meant to be insulting, just making the point that papers that looked into the background in detail came to similar conclusions as those which preferred to sensationalise the entire matter.
"we live by the system of innocent until proven guilty" do we really. Prostitution is legal ( soliciting isn't) and people swear in the streets, verbally abuse others, deposit litter and commit a myriad of other offences (in the true meaning of the word i.e. they offend ethical norms rather than the law)) for which they are never prosecuted or likely to be prosecuted. But do you really think that these are all matters to which we should turn a blind eye as the perpetrators have not been proven guilty in a court of law. I am not arguing that we need to victimise Allardyce just that he is not the sort of person that a community based club such as Charlton should be doing any business with. I should also point out that when Allardyce was with Bolton and Blackburn they hardly played football in a style that most people would think is the way that the game should be played.
Really struggle to understand how such a non story can generate such interest and polar comments.
On one hand, I can't see how anyone can see anything negative in this, and I have real struggle in understanding the integrity angle??
On the other, it's nothing to get excited about. A man that can generate a £4m a year salary will not be joining on the third rung of our coaching ladder!
They have known each over a long time and there is the potential for a bit of mutual benefit. Sam to put on a session to 'keep his hand in on the training ground', and our players to benefit from a different session from an experienced coach. This is quite common in the game with out of work managers, players on their badges etc
My hunch is if Louis asks Robinson in 4 months time 'how did the session with Big Sam go' we'll find that it never materialised
' Read the papers and not just the red tops' - it wasn't meant to be insulting, just making the point that papers that looked into the background in detail came to similar conclusions as those which preferred to sensationalise the entire matter.
"we live by the system of innocent until proven guilty" do we really. Prostitution is legal ( soliciting isn't) and people swear in the streets, verbally abuse others, deposit litter and commit a myriad of other offences (in the true meaning of the word i.e. they offend ethical norms rather than the law)) for which they are never prosecuted or likely to be prosecuted. But do you really think that these are all matters to which we should turn a blind eye as the perpetrators have not been proven guilty in a court of law. I am not arguing that we need to victimise Allardyce just that he is not the sort of person that a community based club such as Charlton should be doing any business with. I should also point out that when Allardyce was with Bolton and Blackburn they hardly played football in a style that most people would think is the way that the game should be played.
BORE OFF MATE!!!
this is a football forum....it's a nothing story about an good coach who may or more likely may not provide a little help with our defence. not sure we need to analyse everything that's wrong with the world today!
I see in today's papers thay Big Sam is being linked with the US national team - I see our "story" as no more than him saying "someone give me a proper job otherwise I'm stuck taking crap gigs with 3rd tier clubs"
Only it wasn't Sam saying it, it was KR and it was just a "he may".
Other than that all correct.
well at least he got his name right, Big Sam as opposed to Fat Sam in the thread title
I'll stick my neck out and say neither big or fat are on his birth certificate
Lets just say I (and others) don't like Allardyce and would prefer that he stays away from Charlton and football. Eni Aluko is a far better role model for football in general as she demonstrated so eloquently yesterday.
Lets just say I (and others) don't like Allardyce and would prefer that he stays away from Charlton and football. Eni Aluko is a far better role model for football in general as she demonstrated so eloquently yesterday.
yeah but she isn't a defensive coach, so its irrelevant! just like this........ "Prostitution is legal ( soliciting isn't) and people swear in the streets, verbally abuse others, deposit litter and commit a myriad of other offences (in the true meaning of the word i.e. they offend ethical norms rather than the law)) for which they are never prosecuted or likely to be prosecuted."
The pope is a better role model, but I doubt he knows how to organize a defence.
let's talk football instead I reckon we know a bit more about it
' Read the papers and not just the red tops' - it wasn't meant to be insulting, just making the point that papers that looked into the background in detail came to similar conclusions as those which preferred to sensationalise the entire matter.
"we live by the system of innocent until proven guilty" do we really. Prostitution is legal ( soliciting isn't) and people swear in the streets, verbally abuse others, deposit litter and commit a myriad of other offences (in the true meaning of the word i.e. they offend ethical norms rather than the law)) for which they are never prosecuted or likely to be prosecuted. But do you really think that these are all matters to which we should turn a blind eye as the perpetrators have not been proven guilty in a court of law. I am not arguing that we need to victimise Allardyce just that he is not the sort of person that a community based club such as Charlton should be doing any business with. I should also point out that when Allardyce was with Bolton and Blackburn they hardly played football in a style that most people would think is the way that the game should be played.
Your quite right the offences you mention should not have been ignored. If someone drops litter or any other myriad of offences then an on the spot fine can be issued to the person commiting the offence. If the person pays the fine they have accepted they are guilt and been punished. If the person protests their innocent they can then have the matter settled in court. No blind eye there are systems in place but the 'perpetrator' has the ability to defend their position. The crucial point being that the person committing the alleged offence can defend their innocence, so the principle of innocence until proven guilty is maintained. I watched a very interesting program about dog littering the other week. A warden issued someone with an on the spot fine for not clearing up after there dog but when challenged could not point to the mess in question, the warden never the less issued the fine and threatened the person with arrest. The person refused to pay and the case was dismissed from court. She activated her RIGHT to defend her innocence and the Council in question offered no evidence to support the fine.
I am missing something and we now want to live in a society where one person can be judge, jury and executioner, yeah theres a country that does that they are getting a lot of bad press at the moment.
In terms of Allardaye im happy to do business with any person who has a clean criminal record and quite frankly I believe in, in most circumstances, believe in redemption in any event.
In terms of his style of football, like my original post said not bothered by it, there are no bonus points for entertaining football and given that we concede, perhaps, more then we should a solid defensive workshop may well come in handy.,
I see in today's papers thay Big Sam is being linked with the US national team - I see our "story" as no more than him saying "someone give me a proper job otherwise I'm stuck taking crap gigs with 3rd tier clubs"
Only it wasn't Sam saying it, it was KR and it was just a "he may".
Other than that all correct.
well at least he got his name right, Big Sam as opposed to Fat Sam in the thread title
I'll stick my neck out and say neither big or fat are on his birth certificate
' Read the papers and not just the red tops' - it wasn't meant to be insulting, just making the point that papers that looked into the background in detail came to similar conclusions as those which preferred to sensationalise the entire matter.
"we live by the system of innocent until proven guilty" do we really. Prostitution is legal ( soliciting isn't) and people swear in the streets, verbally abuse others, deposit litter and commit a myriad of other offences (in the true meaning of the word i.e. they offend ethical norms rather than the law)) for which they are never prosecuted or likely to be prosecuted. But do you really think that these are all matters to which we should turn a blind eye as the perpetrators have not been proven guilty in a court of law. I am not arguing that we need to victimise Allardyce just that he is not the sort of person that a community based club such as Charlton should be doing any business with. I should also point out that when Allardyce was with Bolton and Blackburn they hardly played football in a style that most people would think is the way that the game should be played.
Your quite right the offences you mention should not have been ignored. If someone drops litter or any other myriad of offences then an on the spot fine can be issued to the person commiting the offence. If the person pays the fine they have accepted they are guilt and been punished. If the person protests their innocent they can then have the matter settled in court. No blind eye there are systems in place but the 'perpetrator' has the ability to defend their position. The crucial point being that the person committing the alleged offence can defend their innocence, so the principle of innocence until proven guilty is maintained. I watched a very interesting program about dog littering the other week. A warden issued someone with an on the spot fine for not clearing up after there dog but when challenged could not point to the mess in question, the warden never the less issued the fine and threatened the person with arrest. The person refused to pay and the case was dismissed from court. She activated her RIGHT to defend her innocence and the Council in question offered no evidence to support the fine.
I am missing something and we now want to live in a society where one person can be judge, jury and executioner, yeah theres a country that does that they are getting a lot of bad press at the moment.
In terms of Allardaye im happy to do business with any person who has a clean criminal record and quite frankly I believe in, in most circumstances, believe in redemption in any event.
In terms of his style of football, like my original post said not bothered by it, there are no bonus points for entertaining football and given that we concede, perhaps, more then we should a solid defensive workshop may well come in handy.,
Straw man I'm afraid - I don't want to be judge, jury and executioner, but I do want to be able to express my views. I wouldn't do business with Allardyce (and I wouldn't throw him in a prison cell without due process), you clearly would. I suspect that you like everyone else pick and chose to do business with people using all sorts of criteria other than whether they have a criminal record.
More wishful thinking from Robinson as far as I am concerned. As someone has already said, the word 'clinic' was mentioned. Maybe Allardyce has agreed to do a training session with the defence (big deal). I'd take him as permanent manager though just to piss Palace off and to stop having to listen to Robinson's hogwash.
What's wishful thinking about asking a mate to help out?
People's glasses really are half empty a lot of the time.
' Read the papers and not just the red tops' - it wasn't meant to be insulting, just making the point that papers that looked into the background in detail came to similar conclusions as those which preferred to sensationalise the entire matter.
"we live by the system of innocent until proven guilty" do we really. Prostitution is legal ( soliciting isn't) and people swear in the streets, verbally abuse others, deposit litter and commit a myriad of other offences (in the true meaning of the word i.e. they offend ethical norms rather than the law)) for which they are never prosecuted or likely to be prosecuted. But do you really think that these are all matters to which we should turn a blind eye as the perpetrators have not been proven guilty in a court of law. I am not arguing that we need to victimise Allardyce just that he is not the sort of person that a community based club such as Charlton should be doing any business with. I should also point out that when Allardyce was with Bolton and Blackburn they hardly played football in a style that most people would think is the way that the game should be played.
Your quite right the offences you mention should not have been ignored. If someone drops litter or any other myriad of offences then an on the spot fine can be issued to the person commiting the offence. If the person pays the fine they have accepted they are guilt and been punished. If the person protests their innocent they can then have the matter settled in court. No blind eye there are systems in place but the 'perpetrator' has the ability to defend their position. The crucial point being that the person committing the alleged offence can defend their innocence, so the principle of innocence until proven guilty is maintained. I watched a very interesting program about dog littering the other week. A warden issued someone with an on the spot fine for not clearing up after there dog but when challenged could not point to the mess in question, the warden never the less issued the fine and threatened the person with arrest. The person refused to pay and the case was dismissed from court. She activated her RIGHT to defend her innocence and the Council in question offered no evidence to support the fine.
I am missing something and we now want to live in a society where one person can be judge, jury and executioner, yeah theres a country that does that they are getting a lot of bad press at the moment.
In terms of Allardaye im happy to do business with any person who has a clean criminal record and quite frankly I believe in, in most circumstances, believe in redemption in any event.
In terms of his style of football, like my original post said not bothered by it, there are no bonus points for entertaining football and given that we concede, perhaps, more then we should a solid defensive workshop may well come in handy.,
Straw man I'm afraid - I don't want to be judge, jury and executioner, but I do want to be able to express my views. I wouldn't do business with Allardyce (and I wouldn't throw him in a prison cell without due process), you clearly would. I suspect that you like everyone else pick and chose to do business with people using all sorts of criteria other than whether they have a criminal record.
Comments
Always lots to learn and if you can get in straight from a person who has been there and done it, so much the better. Freshens up training as well. Solid.
I am not convinced that Sam is any more 'dishonest' than many in football .. I suspect that the 'football industry' is stuffed to the roof with 'dishonest' people to a greater or lesser degree ..
last point .. I am not advocating hiring rapists or murders to coach our naive and tender players (lol), but a rogue like Sam ? .. come on .. he'll be enlightening them about blocking and marking, not money laundering and fraud (I hope) ((:>)
We've a young manager and two young inexperienced coaches. All could learn something from Big Sam.
It's paramount that Charlton get out of the third teir and anything that even might help that happen is fine by me.
Have you looked at competative Carol singing ?
' Read the papers and not just the red tops' Well that's not insulting at all. I happen to read a great many papers , the Sun, the Mirror, The Mail, The Independent as well as the Guardian. Bit of a contradiction in terms those papers but I like to read views from all angles left, right and centre.
For my football fix I also read the Football League Paper. Ive yet to see Sam Allardyce actually found guilty of anything in any one of these papers. In terms of there being a distinction between moral and legal I applaud you and I agree but in this country we live by the system of innocent until proven guilty. So back to my original post which was in response to some citing 'history', I await the evidence
Other than that all correct.
"we live by the system of innocent until proven guilty" do we really. Prostitution is legal ( soliciting isn't) and people swear in the streets, verbally abuse others, deposit litter and commit a myriad of other offences (in the true meaning of the word i.e. they offend ethical norms rather than the law)) for which they are never prosecuted or likely to be prosecuted. But do you really think that these are all matters to which we should turn a blind eye as the perpetrators have not been proven guilty in a court of law.
I am not arguing that we need to victimise Allardyce just that he is not the sort of person that a community based club such as Charlton should be doing any business with. I should also point out that when Allardyce was with Bolton and Blackburn they hardly played football in a style that most people would think is the way that the game should be played.
On one hand, I can't see how anyone can see anything negative in this, and I have real struggle in understanding the integrity angle??
On the other, it's nothing to get excited about. A man that can generate a £4m a year salary will not be joining on the third rung of our coaching ladder!
They have known each over a long time and there is the potential for a bit of mutual benefit. Sam to put on a session to 'keep his hand in on the training ground', and our players to benefit from a different session from an experienced coach. This is quite common in the game with out of work managers, players on their badges etc
My hunch is if Louis asks Robinson in 4 months time 'how did the session with Big Sam go' we'll find that it never materialised
Sure someone will bring it up then
this is a football forum....it's a nothing story about an good coach who may or more likely may not provide a little help with our defence. not sure we need to analyse everything that's wrong with the world today!
Lets move on
The pope is a better role model, but I doubt he knows how to organize a defence.
let's talk football instead I reckon we know a bit more about it
I am missing something and we now want to live in a society where one person can be judge, jury and executioner, yeah theres a country that does that they are getting a lot of bad press at the moment.
In terms of Allardaye im happy to do business with any person who has a clean criminal record and quite frankly I believe in, in most circumstances, believe in redemption in any event.
In terms of his style of football, like my original post said not bothered by it, there are no bonus points for entertaining football and given that we concede, perhaps, more then we should a solid defensive workshop may well come in handy.,
People's glasses really are half empty a lot of the time.
Right on cue!