I don't think a Leadership Contest will change anything & I don't even think a new Tory leader will change anything. A GE is needed. Get this shower of shit out (and I've voted Tory for all of my life except in 1997 & 2017) and let someone else govern. Put Article 50 on hold & see where we are in 2-3 months time when a new Government have been installed.
as am aside...........I did say yesterday that Cabinet members needed to step up to the plate & vote this deal down. They didn't. They got bullied & agreed, only for 2 of them to resign less than 24 hours later. utter spineless twonks. Do it at the time. Be seen storming walking out of the door of No 10............not sneaking out the back door with a resignation letter the next morning.
The only thing I don’t like about this deal is that we have no say in any new EU rules we may be subjected to over the next few years. But that serves us right for allowing this Brexit shitfest in the first place.
If Kate Hoey hates it it has to be good for the country.
Labour have to be very careful here. Parliament’s paramount responsibility is to avoid a no deal exit.
Agree and Tony Blairs comments yesterday support this view too.
A second referendum is now the only solution. Anything else will still be hugely divisive and damaging.
I keep hearing a second referendum is needed, but what if the result was the same, with leave getting the nod? How will it help?
Has to be binding with clear and precise question. Nation told the outcome will be adhered to regardless. Simple majority enough
What would the precise question be? I can think of four potential options now - no Brexit, no deal Brexit, this deal Brexit and different deal Brexit.
I don’t see how that could really be resolved via a referendum.
I'm not opposed to a further referendum on principle but I think those who regard as a panacea for the mess we're in have not considered the evidence to the contrary.
As I've posted before the evidence from 'What UK Thinks' a 'Non-partisan information on UK attitudes to the EU before and since the EU Referendum' created by the National Centre for Social Research, suggests that opinion remains very divided, very close, and very volatile:
And in an opinion piece published last week by Professor John Curtice, Chief Commentator on the What UK Thinks: EU website, he says:
""even if some voters have changed their minds about Brexit – and many are far from certain about how they might vote in a ballot about whatever deal that is brought back from Brussels – do they think there should be a referendum on the outcome of the negotiations? As previous polling has suggested, much depends on the kind of ballot that is proposed. Slightly more voters support (43%) than oppose (37%) a referendum in which the alternative was to Remain in the EU, as advocated by the People’s Vote campaign, but the lead is hardly decisive. Meanwhile voters are more or less evenly divided on the prospect of a ballot where the alternative to the deal would be to reopen the negotiations (39% support this idea while 37% oppose it), and on a vote where the choice would be between deal and no deal (38% support, 39% oppose). But as might be imagined, whereas a choice between accepting the deal and remaining in the EU is relatively popular among Remain voters, a ballot where voters were choosing between accepting the deal and leaving with no deal is slightly more popular with Leave voters. Just 15% of all voters oppose all three referendums, and just 16% support all three. Most (55%) support at least one but not all three. It appears that for most voters the question of whether another referendum should be held is not so much a question of constitutional principle but one of perceived political advantage. But perhaps that is only to be expected from an issue that continues to polarise the British electorate so strongly?"
Seems pretty obvious to me that the politicians are not going to resolve this. The government and Tories are split with irreconcilable differences. Labour can’t support the deal and have their own agenda. DUP and SNP have already said they won’t vote for it.
There is now only one option. A second referendum. No other option. Clear question and binding.
you have the 2nd referendum - leave wins again - then what?
Then we leave. For me. The question has to be
Remain Leave with no deal Leave with Current deal
Simple majority and binding. If the UK people vote to be poorer and damage the country for generations then that’s democracy.
This can’t go on for ever. Time to pick our boat and sail on it.
Seems pretty obvious to me that the politicians are not going to resolve this. The government and Tories are split with irreconcilable differences. Labour can’t support the deal and have their own agenda. DUP and SNP have already said they won’t vote for it.
There is now only one option. A second referendum. No other option. Clear question and binding.
you have the 2nd referendum - leave wins again - then what?
Then we leave. For me. The question has to be
Remain Leave with no deal Leave with Current deal
Simple majority and binding. If the UK people vote to be poorer and damage the country for generations then that’s democracy.
This can’t go on for ever. Time to pick our boat and sail on it.
come off it the thousands protesting wont be happy and this will go on till the day i vacate the earth.
or will overnight people that voted brexit stop being labelled brain dead/racist/selfish?
i agree there should be a vote and the result should be accepted whatever the outcome, people genuinely thought that we could have the best of both worlds - was never going to happen, the dup input is only due to conservatives not having a majority.
Seems pretty obvious to me that the politicians are not going to resolve this. The government and Tories are split with irreconcilable differences. Labour can’t support the deal and have their own agenda. DUP and SNP have already said they won’t vote for it.
There is now only one option. A second referendum. No other option. Clear question and binding.
you have the 2nd referendum - leave wins again - then what?
Then we leave. For me. The question has to be
Remain Leave with no deal Leave with Current deal
Simple majority and binding. If the UK people vote to be poorer and damage the country for generations then that’s democracy.
This can’t go on for ever. Time to pick our boat and sail on it.
What if, as I think would be the case, neither option achieved a majority?
Seems pretty obvious to me that the politicians are not going to resolve this. The government and Tories are split with irreconcilable differences. Labour can’t support the deal and have their own agenda. DUP and SNP have already said they won’t vote for it.
There is now only one option. A second referendum. No other option. Clear question and binding.
you have the 2nd referendum - leave wins again - then what?
Then we leave. For me. The question has to be
Remain Leave with no deal Leave with Current deal
Simple majority and binding. If the UK people vote to be poorer and damage the country for generations then that’s democracy.
This can’t go on for ever. Time to pick our boat and sail on it.
What if, as I think would be the case, neither option achieved a majority?
Theresa May has stated that regardless of anything else, the UK leaves the EU on 29th March 2019 as long as she is in power.
Thus reneging on her promise of a meaningful vote she made to Parliament.
She has lied to the House and lied to the voters. She must go, and MPs would do well to ensure the necessary actions to remove this deranged sociopath from any position of influence are in motion by the close of business today. Not fit to run a tuck shop, let alone be an MP or in government.
Seems pretty obvious to me that the politicians are not going to resolve this. The government and Tories are split with irreconcilable differences. Labour can’t support the deal and have their own agenda. DUP and SNP have already said they won’t vote for it.
There is now only one option. A second referendum. No other option. Clear question and binding.
you have the 2nd referendum - leave wins again - then what?
Then we leave. For me. The question has to be
Remain Leave with no deal Leave with Current deal
Simple majority and binding. If the UK people vote to be poorer and damage the country for generations then that’s democracy.
This can’t go on for ever. Time to pick our boat and sail on it.
What if, as I think would be the case, neither option achieved a majority?
Seems pretty obvious to me that the politicians are not going to resolve this. The government and Tories are split with irreconcilable differences. Labour can’t support the deal and have their own agenda. DUP and SNP have already said they won’t vote for it.
There is now only one option. A second referendum. No other option. Clear question and binding.
you have the 2nd referendum - leave wins again - then what?
Then we leave. For me. The question has to be
Remain Leave with no deal Leave with Current deal
Simple majority and binding. If the UK people vote to be poorer and damage the country for generations then that’s democracy.
This can’t go on for ever. Time to pick our boat and sail on it.
What if, as I think would be the case, neither option achieved a majority?
what legally constitutes a majority
I presume it'd be a simple majority in this case, like the initial referendum - 50% of all votes + 1 vote.
Seems pretty obvious to me that the politicians are not going to resolve this. The government and Tories are split with irreconcilable differences. Labour can’t support the deal and have their own agenda. DUP and SNP have already said they won’t vote for it.
There is now only one option. A second referendum. No other option. Clear question and binding.
you have the 2nd referendum - leave wins again - then what?
Then we leave. For me. The question has to be
Remain Leave with no deal Leave with Current deal
Simple majority and binding. If the UK people vote to be poorer and damage the country for generations then that’s democracy.
This can’t go on for ever. Time to pick our boat and sail on it.
What if, as I think would be the case, neither option achieved a majority?
what legally constitutes a majority
50% or more
dont know how to do it but they should run a mock vote on here.
If May is determined to go down the my deal or no deal route, it is difficult to see how strong Tory Remainers won't act. They have not caused the crisis today within their party, but it has forced them to pick sides and May is now just in the way. Logic says, we are heading for no deal or no Brexit now!
Seems pretty obvious to me that the politicians are not going to resolve this. The government and Tories are split with irreconcilable differences. Labour can’t support the deal and have their own agenda. DUP and SNP have already said they won’t vote for it.
There is now only one option. A second referendum. No other option. Clear question and binding.
you have the 2nd referendum - leave wins again - then what?
Then we leave. For me. The question has to be
Remain Leave with no deal Leave with Current deal
Simple majority and binding. If the UK people vote to be poorer and damage the country for generations then that’s democracy.
This can’t go on for ever. Time to pick our boat and sail on it.
come off it the thousands protesting wont be happy and this will go on till the day i vacate the earth.
or will overnight people that voted brexit stop being labelled brain dead/racist/selfish?
i agree there should be a vote and the result should be accepted whatever the outcome, people genuinely thought that we could have the best of both worlds - was never going to happen, the dup input is only due to conservatives not having a majority.
Seems pretty obvious to me that the politicians are not going to resolve this. The government and Tories are split with irreconcilable differences. Labour can’t support the deal and have their own agenda. DUP and SNP have already said they won’t vote for it.
There is now only one option. A second referendum. No other option. Clear question and binding.
you have the 2nd referendum - leave wins again - then what?
Then we leave. For me. The question has to be
Remain Leave with no deal Leave with Current deal
Simple majority and binding. If the UK people vote to be poorer and damage the country for generations then that’s democracy.
This can’t go on for ever. Time to pick our boat and sail on it.
What if, as I think would be the case, neither option achieved a majority?
I am watching this debate on tv and it is utterly pointless. Everyone says they won’t vote for it so what is there to debate. Simply hold a vote and then try and work out what to do from there.
I think the last couple of days have convinced me we will stay in the eu. Simply as no deal is unacceptable to virtually everyone and any negotiated deal appears unacceptable to virtually everyone (by everyone I saw our politicians).
Sod having another vote. We vote these people in to deal with this kind of thing. If every time it gets a bit tricky you ask us what to do why ha e a government at all? Parliament have more information and advice than the population ever will so stop refusing to take responsibility and make a decision.
Seems pretty obvious to me that the politicians are not going to resolve this. The government and Tories are split with irreconcilable differences. Labour can’t support the deal and have their own agenda. DUP and SNP have already said they won’t vote for it.
There is now only one option. A second referendum. No other option. Clear question and binding.
you have the 2nd referendum - leave wins again - then what?
Then we leave. For me. The question has to be
Remain Leave with no deal Leave with Current deal
Simple majority and binding. If the UK people vote to be poorer and damage the country for generations then that’s democracy.
This can’t go on for ever. Time to pick our boat and sail on it.
What if, as I think would be the case, neither option achieved a majority?
what legally constitutes a majority
50% or more
Three options. A simple majority of 1 vote wins.
But, if you have three options you’ll likely end up implementing a decision that the majority voted against and, in the case of remain winning but with less than 50% of the vote, that the majority voted against twice!
Comments
I don't think a Leadership Contest will change anything & I don't even think a new Tory leader will change anything. A GE is needed. Get this shower of shit out (and I've voted Tory for all of my life except in 1997 & 2017) and let someone else govern. Put Article 50 on hold & see where we are in 2-3 months time when a new Government have been installed.
as am aside...........I did say yesterday that Cabinet members needed to step up to the plate & vote this deal down. They didn't. They got bullied & agreed, only for 2 of them to resign less than 24 hours later. utter spineless twonks. Do it at the time. Be seen
stormingwalking out of the door of No 10............not sneaking out the back door with a resignation letter the next morning.As I've posted before the evidence from 'What UK Thinks' a 'Non-partisan information on UK attitudes to the EU before and since the EU Referendum' created by the National Centre for Social Research, suggests that opinion remains very divided, very close, and very volatile:
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/
And in an opinion piece published last week by Professor John Curtice, Chief Commentator on the What UK Thinks: EU website, he says:
""even if some voters have changed their minds about Brexit – and many are far from certain about how they might vote in a ballot about whatever deal that is brought back from Brussels – do they think there should be a referendum on the outcome of the negotiations? As previous polling has suggested, much depends on the kind of ballot that is proposed. Slightly more voters support (43%) than oppose (37%) a referendum in which the alternative was to Remain in the EU, as advocated by the People’s Vote campaign, but the lead is hardly decisive. Meanwhile voters are more or less evenly divided on the prospect of a ballot where the alternative to the deal would be to reopen the negotiations (39% support this idea while 37% oppose it), and on a vote where the choice would be between deal and no deal (38% support, 39% oppose). But as might be imagined, whereas a choice between accepting the deal and remaining in the EU is relatively popular among Remain voters, a ballot where voters were choosing between accepting the deal and leaving with no deal is slightly more popular with Leave voters. Just 15% of all voters oppose all three referendums, and just 16% support all three. Most (55%) support at least one but not all three. It appears that for most voters the question of whether another referendum should be held is not so much a question of constitutional principle but one of perceived political advantage. But perhaps that is only to be expected from an issue that continues to polarise the British electorate so strongly?"
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/lessons-from-the-brexit-what-the-nation-really-thinks-poll/
If more people listened this nation would be a much nicer more informed country.
A radio channel for compulsory listening? Sounds like a lovely country to live in.
For me. The question has to be
Remain
Leave with no deal
Leave with Current deal
Simple majority and binding.
If the UK people vote to be poorer and damage the country for generations then that’s democracy.
This can’t go on for ever. Time to pick our boat and sail on it.
Have edited
or will overnight people that voted brexit stop being labelled brain dead/racist/selfish?
i agree there should be a vote and the result should be accepted whatever the outcome, people genuinely thought that we could have the best of both worlds - was never going to happen, the dup input is only due to conservatives not having a majority.
Thus reneging on her promise of a meaningful vote she made to Parliament.
She has lied to the House and lied to the voters. She must go, and MPs would do well to ensure the necessary actions to remove this deranged sociopath from any position of influence are in motion by the close of business today. Not fit to run a tuck shop, let alone be an MP or in government.
Accept this deal.
Reject this deal and renegotiate.
The latter would need the EU to agree an extention of Article 50.
No options of No deal or cancelling Brexit.
Three options. A simple majority of 1 vote wins.
I think the last couple of days have convinced me we will stay in the eu. Simply as no deal is unacceptable to virtually everyone and any negotiated deal appears unacceptable to virtually everyone (by everyone I saw our politicians).
Sod having another vote. We vote these people in to deal with this kind of thing. If every time it gets a bit tricky you ask us what to do why ha e a government at all? Parliament have more information and advice than the population ever will so stop refusing to take responsibility and make a decision.
Isn't it called No Deal!
No Deal - backlash
This deal - backlash
No Brexit - backlash
We are a divided country.