One of the tendentious things that has surfaced in the last couple of pages is the assertion that May is or was a "Remainer". She isn't really, and that is the problem. She hardly said a word in the run up to the referendum. She is just one of those Tories who doesn't really like the EU but couldn't see a better practical alternative that could keep the Tories in power (always remember that objective). A proper Remainer politician is one who likes and respects our neigbouring countries generally, believes in co-operation and sees the benefits of it. Within the Tory party they have usually been in the past "One Nation Tories" people who don't fall under the spell of self-serving hard right dogma and theories. Unfortunately many of them are dead, or certainly past their political prime (Clarke, Heseltine, Major). The newer serious Remainers like Anna Soubery are currently too lightweight to lead. I cannot even name another than her right now.
May isn't one of them. She is not really a European, she does not understand the mindset of the politicians and peoples of those countries because she has never been that interested in them. Last week's car crash would not have befallen a One Nation Tory because they understand them much better than May does.
But then some people (not just on here), come to the opposite conclusion, that a "true" Brexiteer should have led the talks. They hardly seem to notice that this implies one of the following should be Prime Minister. Leader of the people of the UK:
Boris Johnson Michael Gove Andrea fucking Leadsom or "best" of all, Jacob Rees-Mogg.
and with that thought I wish us all a nice weekend
I would say that pro-Europe politicians are in short supply in this country because they have only a small constituency to work with. Most Remainers of my acquaintance see the EU as a necessary evil at best. Outright pro-Europeans like Clegg and his Party have only a very small minority supporting them.
After 2 years of car crash developments there is still no sign that either main Party will adopt a Remain position. As a Leaver I think this is to be regretted as it means there can be no easy way of resolving the impasse. A Gove led ( and I think he did a great deal of good to our education system, by the way) Tory Party versus an Umumma Labour Party would offer us a clear choice.
Just read this shit 3 times to make sure I had read it right. First class AA as my old man was prone to say. Absolute arsehole.
Just proving as my dad used to say, when you have nothing to say, better to say nothing.
This really is a dark time for UK politics, what a mess. If the Tory's had a proper opposition we'd be in a much better state.
Boris, Corbyn, Grayling, Gove, Raab, Davies and loads more, how are they still involved in politics?
The lot of them have failed, I can't think of a way I could fuck up everything so bad and still have my job.
John McDonnell today saying that if they won a snap election, they'd carry on with Brexit but get a better deal. How? Why not put your plan out there now and see how the EU react?
The EU have their Red line, we have ours and they're miles apart.
The 40 billion won't last long if we don't get a deal sorted.
Labour have a very different approach to Brexit and we will see that evolve at their conference starting tomorrow. Firstly they have been committed to being in a Customs Union since the beginning of March - they simply do not believe in a hard Brexit - whether they are remain or leave supporters their MPs and voters are unanimous in supporting the Customs Union save for Hoey and Field who are both on their way out. Secondly they are minded to want the benefits of being in the single market but realise that maintaining ambiguity on this topic keeps them around 40% in the polls.
They are genuine in respecting the referendum and thus will not openly support an obvious remain position such as the Norway option. Many would like them to change. The Guardian reports on a poll showing that close to 90% of Labour Party members support a people's vote. So what Labour can do now is back democracy - how? Quite simply, Labour has a democratic structure in terms of voting for their NEC and delegates voting on motions at their conference. Tomorrow, the little known Conference Arrangements Commitee will agree or supervise(?) the composite exercise for the hundreds of motions submitted. Don't know how this works but in just over 24 hours we will know what motions will actually be debated and then voted upon. For those not familiar, a composite is simply a merger / cut and paste of all motions submitted on certain topics by the wider Labour movement.
Many have criticised Corbyn around Brexit - but it's hard to see how or why Labour will not debate the People's Vote concept next week. And if they do, they will in turn be backing a democratic exercise to enable the electorate to choose between Remain, Leave with No Deal, or whatever deal is offered by M.Barnier.
Unlike the Tories, Labour should be able to cut a deal quite quickly with the EU27 because they understand the Irish border, they are not against the ECJ and they are deliberately ambiguous about immigration. However, to deliver that they first have to be in power and not opposition.
So yes, we can all agree that the UK is miles apart from the EU right now. And the first step to closing that gap is for Labour to back a People's Vote, not least because that will inflame the Hard Right who are against such a vote for fear of losing it. Anything that makes May's job harder, should bring forward her demise. And thus make it easier to cut a deal or simply agree to a transition deal for a lot longer, say five years.
We all know Brexit is extremely complicated - those who claimed it would be simple have left the cabinet. They were unable to deliver. We are now approaching the end game - before that we have the party conferences and more meetings with the EU27. And we can be fairly sure that no deal will be agreed by end October - so what happens then?
If Peter Kellner is correct AND Labour choose to support a people's vote then they could surge by 5% in the polls just as May is failing with M.Barnier. No guarantees but that's where we might be in a month?
Sorry Tubbs, but that really doesn't make any sense. You can't just reverse the polarity a common insult, it doesn't work like that. The swivel eyed were, are and always be the right wing nutters that pushed for Brexit. No-one else.
What doesn't work is you just changing dictionary definitions to prove a point. You can absolutely be a swivel eyed remainer.
No, because being swivel eyed is an allusion to two things: 1. Desperately looking for something different so their eyes are everywhere else. 2. The lower average intellect. So switching the insult doesn't work and it's no use pretending it does.
I'm quite happy to be insulted, but I do demand a certain level of creativity with it. So Brexiteers, keep your swivel eyes off our insults.
I literally linked two separate dictionaries that give the same definition:
1.1 Holding or expressing political views regarded as extreme or fanatical.
Well, if you can figure out a way in which people who want nothing more and nothing less than maintenance of the status quo could possibly be considered extreme or fanatical, perhaps you should give up your day job, fly back to England and start work immediately on solving the Irish border conundrum. We can't afford to let such a creative imagination go to waste.
Sorry Tubbs, but that really doesn't make any sense. You can't just reverse the polarity a common insult, it doesn't work like that. The swivel eyed were, are and always be the right wing nutters that pushed for Brexit. No-one else.
What doesn't work is you just changing dictionary definitions to prove a point. You can absolutely be a swivel eyed remainer.
No, because being swivel eyed is an allusion to two things: 1. Desperately looking for something different so their eyes are everywhere else. 2. The lower average intellect. So switching the insult doesn't work and it's no use pretending it does.
I'm quite happy to be insulted, but I do demand a certain level of creativity with it. So Brexiteers, keep your swivel eyes off our insults.
I literally linked two separate dictionaries that give the same definition:
1.1 Holding or expressing political views regarded as extreme or fanatical.
Well, if you can figure out a way in which people who want nothing more and nothing less than maintenance of the status quo could possibly be considered extreme or fanatical, perhaps you should give up your day job, fly back to England and start work immediately on solving the Irish border conundrum. We can't afford to let such a creative imagination go to waste.
They are clearly not the people TellyTubby was originally referring to, perhaps go back and reread his quote, rather than just the bit you used.
Starmer did get interviewed by Crick earlier in the day, but there wasn't anyone on the live show, just a random pro-Brexit Tory backbencher and Justine Greening.
This really is a dark time for UK politics, what a mess. If the Tory's had a proper opposition we'd be in a much better state.
Boris, Corbyn, Grayling, Gove, Raab, Davies and loads more, how are they still involved in politics?
The lot of them have failed, I can't think of a way I could fuck up everything so bad and still have my job.
John McDonnell today saying that if they won a snap election, they'd carry on with Brexit but get a better deal. How? Why not put your plan out there now and see how the EU react?
The EU have their Red line, we have ours and they're miles apart.
The 40 billion won't last long if we don't get a deal sorted.
Labour have a very different approach to Brexit and we will see that evolve at their conference starting tomorrow. Firstly they have been committed to being in a Customs Union since the beginning of March - they simply do not believe in a hard Brexit - whether they are remain or leave supporters their MPs and voters are unanimous in supporting the Customs Union save for Hoey and Field who are both on their way out. Secondly they are minded to want the benefits of being in the single market but realise that maintaining ambiguity on this topic keeps them around 40% in the polls.
They are genuine in respecting the referendum and thus will not openly support an obvious remain position such as the Norway option. Many would like them to change. The Guardian reports on a poll showing that close to 90% of Labour Party members support a people's vote. So what Labour can do now is back democracy - how? Quite simply, Labour has a democratic structure in terms of voting for their NEC and delegates voting on motions at their conference. Tomorrow, the little known Conference Arrangements Commitee will agree or supervise(?) the composite exercise for the hundreds of motions submitted. Don't know how this works but in just over 24 hours we will know what motions will actually be debated and then voted upon. For those not familiar, a composite is simply a merger / cut and paste of all motions submitted on certain topics by the wider Labour movement.
Many have criticised Corbyn around Brexit - but it's hard to see how or why Labour will not debate the People's Vote concept next week. And if they do, they will in turn be backing a democratic exercise to enable the electorate to choose between Remain, Leave with No Deal, or whatever deal is offered by M.Barnier.
Unlike the Tories, Labour should be able to cut a deal quite quickly with the EU27 because they understand the Irish border, they are not against the ECJ and they are deliberately ambiguous about immigration. However, to deliver that they first have to be in power and not opposition.
So yes, we can all agree that the UK is miles apart from the EU right now. And the first step to closing that gap is for Labour to back a People's Vote, not least because that will inflame the Hard Right who are against such a vote for fear of losing it. Anything that makes May's job harder, should bring forward her demise. And thus make it easier to cut a deal or simply agree to a transition deal for a lot longer, say five years.
We all know Brexit is extremely complicated - those who claimed it would be simple have left the cabinet. They were unable to deliver. We are now approaching the end game - before that we have the party conferences and more meetings with the EU27. And we can be fairly sure that no deal will be agreed by end October - so what happens then?
If Peter Kellner is correct AND Labour choose to support a people's vote then they could surge by 5% in the polls just as May is failing with M.Barnier. No guarantees but that's where we might be in a month?
The Labour executive will not back the motion. It will not be up for discussion or debated at Conference.
Punctuation (formerly sometimes called pointing) is the use of spacing, conventional signs end certain typographical devices as aids to the understanding and correct reading of handwritten and printed text whether read silently or aloud.[1] Another description is "The practice action or system of inserting points or other small marks into texts in order to aid interpretation; division of text into sentences, clauses, etc., by means of such marks."[2]
Did you bother with punctuation in the writing of your dissertation ?
William Keegan is a Guardian/Observer economics commentator. Been around for yonks and so, like me, is old enough to remember exactly where Jeremy Corbyn comes from politically. As such, while he hopes for similar things from the Labour conference that @seriously_red does, he seems to be rather less optimistic that we will get them.
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
Firstly there is no need to be rude. I have not been rude to you. Secondly there is nothing wrong with my grasp of reality. We see things differently and that is the purpose of there threads so that we can exchange views. As I have stated before I do not believe that we will be the last country to leave the EU in fact I believe in 10 or 15 years time when it becomes obvious that certain countries are doing far better than others that the whole thing will collapse. Greece for example will never be able to repay their debts to the EU and can only ever start to recover by leaving and coming out of the Euro. When and this is only my opinion of course that it does happen we will be well clear of the chaos that will follow
It's very hard not to be rude when someone else's ill thought out decision has already had a detrimental impact on me personally, and may have an even worse impact in the months to come. However, apologies Blackpool, you are right, I shouldn't be rude - I am sure you are a thoroughly pleasant chap in all other matters.
Going back to the original post that got my feathers so ruffled, as I stated, all the things you say have been knocked back in the past, and now, once again, quite succinctly by Nornirish. So I hope that you can at least understand the frustration of seeing the same opinions being rehashed over and over, then the facts that show the erroneous nature of those opinions being ignored over and over? The bowls club analogy is a good one, the thing that was missing was the commitment you had made to help finance the purchase of more land, that you now want to wash your hands of, despite signing the agreement to do so...
Your belief that we will not be the last country to leave the EU may be right, a few years ago you may well have said the same of Portugal as you are now saying of Greece. Things are going pretty well here now after a few years of austerity, it's not perfect, but as one of the former "PIG" economies, along with the "I" of that acronym, we/they are not heading out of the EU anytime soon. If Ireland and Portugal can recover (to a certain extent) there's only one thing holding Greece back from at least trying - that's Greece having the same half arsed attitude to the EU as half the people in the UK do...
Leaving the Euro/EU wont cancel Greece's debts, and I think maybe one could argue (I'm no economist, so I am happy to be shot down in flames by those that understand these things better than me) that a Greece-free Euro would actually be a stronger currency? Just a thought?
Algarve, with the greatest respect, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for the people living in the UK.
The vote was not about what was best for people who used to live in the UK, but have now chosen to live in the Algarve, Prague, Madrid or anywhere else in Europe.
Quite frankly, there should never have been a referendum and I'm sick to death of it all. When a conclusion is reached the 2 alternatives should be put to a public vote.
1 Remain 2 Take the deal offered or a no deal scenario, if that is the only alternative to remaining.
Then we shall be voting on a specific choice and should proceed accordingly.
I am entitled to have the hump that a decision based on exaggeration, lies and stupidity (in some cases) has cost me personally. I don't stop being affected by decisions made by the UK because I don't live there.
Anyway, in fact, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for non-foreign people living in the UK...
Personally, I believe moving abroad is higher risk than remaining in the UK.
I've known a number of people that have moved or retired abroad and I have to say I'll never be "brave" enough to do so.
Added to this is that I have no desire to do so.
If you take higher risk decisions then I'm afraid you have to live with the consequences.
Once again, I say this with the greatest respect.
Taking no offence whatsoever here CE, don't worry.
It was not a higher risk, the decision of 37% of the British public has made it a higher risk, a lot of them have made that decision for spurious reasons - see umpteen posts above.
I'm presuming your situation is higher risk than mine. Tbh, whatever the outcome, I'll probably not be unduly affected.
What is your current scenario and worst case scenario ?
I don't think it was high risk CE. Despite what others have said, moving to another EU country was a breeze. It is a place we had visited umpteen times, we knew the food, the people and the culture. We knew we didn't have to be fluent in the language. We knew we were protected from governmental prejudice by EU law, we knew we would get our full UK pension when we retired and that pension would increase every year because we were part of the EU. We rented for a year just to make sure it was what we wanted, and bought when we decided it was. At every stage we were treated the same as if we had been born in Portugal, because of the EU.
We have an income from the UK, since June 2016 the poor rate of exchange has cost us nearly £3000.
Currently we are in the Portuguese health system, and we have to be treated the same way a Portuguese person would be under law.
Our UK pensions could be frozen once we get them - like they are if you are in Australia or Canada.
The Portuguese could decide that we don't get health care anymore. They could decide that foreign citizens have to leave the country for 24 hours every 60 days, and that non-Portuguese cannot have a bank account (both were the case pre-EU). The latter two are wholey unlikely of course, but the simple fact is once the UK is outside the EU, the Portuguese can do what they want to non-EU citizens.
Now imagine what a vote winner it would be with certain people in Britain if the UK said no more tax credits, health cover, pension rights, schooling for the kids of Polish workers in the UK? Those kind of people exist everywhere, not just in the UK (though I think because of the parliamentary system and the newspapers, they are more prevalent). We could become a target for that kind of prejudice.
Extreme and unlikely scenarios, but not impossible scenarios as they are currently.
I sympathise with your situation it must be quite worrying. I think exchange rate risk is one of the main risks in moving abroad. Thanks for replying.
Once again I would like to gently remind you and others that people who make their home in other EU countries have probably not "left" the UK in the sense that people who emigrated to Oz, the US or China have. Once again in my case:
1. I am, and intend to remain, a UK citizen 2. I pay as much UK income tax as many Lifers on this thread. I should have a say in how that's spent, no? 3. I have fully paid up my NI contribs, so ought to have a say on the State pension front, no? 4. I have family back in Eltham as you know 5. Because they are of modest means, I help my sister with the Uni fees for her kids. So obviously I have strong views on Unis and further educations too, as a result. A voting issue. 6. I came face to face with the elderly care crisis, and shared my experience with you. Again a crucial issue for the ballot box, no. And who knows where I myself might want to spend my final days. 7. I have a football club in London which consumes far too much of my life, still 5-6 games a year in person. 8. I hope you would agree that I am fully engaged with the UK political scene as much as any Lifer on this thread, so however I vote, its as well informed a vote as most people who are UK resident. 9 You might also agree that I am an "active" citizen, the Olympic Stadium thing being an example. How many Lifers are on regular speaking terms with a GLA Mayoral candidate and other AMs?
Now you may say, oh, that's just you, Prague, you are a bit odd. And certainly the last bit I have to concede :-). But there are many many British people with a similar list to mine currently in the EU. You may find that difficult to believe because as you say, it's not something you personally would conceive of doing. Which is also OK. But IMO the island mentality is the reason why many Brits think people like me are "emigrants," or more sadly "traitors". Here on the continent a much higher % of people have a similar life, especially Benelux and Scandis.
Let me put it a different way to you. As you know, a significant number of English people have moved north to Scotland, because they agreed with the political direction of Scotland, and don't mind the weather :-). Depending on wind direction, a flight from Prague can reach London in the same or less time than a flight from Aberdeen, and for much the same fare.
So...what you would you say to me in this context, if Aberdeen rather than Prague is where I had "emigrated" to?
I'd say you were still living in the UK and had not emigrated.
Well I kind of expected that was what you'd fire back, and assume, perhaps unfairly, that you didn't give much thought to the detail of the case I set out.
So let's discuss it on your own terms. What would then have been your position re my status had Scotland voted for independence in the last referendum (before the Brexit one, of course)?
PS, see you on Oct 17, I trust...
Sorry, not avoiding the question, but I'm literally out the door.
No problem, I am out to, on the way to Berlin. By train, natch.
I would like to ideally ask you ( and anyone else who thinks I ahoukd not be allowed to vote: what, in a mature democracy, is a "citizen"?
I don't know why you think I said you should not be allowed to vote ? I never said that, don't think that and don't believe I even hinted at such a notion. If you're entitled to vote that's 100% ok with me.
As for if Scotland were no longer part of the UK and you or I moved there. I'd say you/I have to live with the consequences of our life choice, whatever that may be.
No party wants to be seen as going agaisnt "the will of the people" even if said will has now changed... And that would never be "proved" without another referendum. So we are stuck in some idiotic limbo, as the bus slowly rolls off the cliff, because the driver doesnt want to turn it around because if he does, he knows he'll be sacked
Which is why we should have a second vote, remain or accept the KNOWN alternative.
Once again I would like to gently remind you and others that people who make their home in other EU countries have probably not "left" the UK in the sense that people who emigrated to Oz, the US or China have. Once again in my case:
1. I am, and intend to remain, a UK citizen 2. I pay as much UK income tax as many Lifers on this thread. I should have a say in how that's spent, no? 3. I have fully paid up my NI contribs, so ought to have a say on the State pension front, no? 4. I have family back in Eltham as you know 5. Because they are of modest means, I help my sister with the Uni fees for her kids. So obviously I have strong views on Unis and further educations too, as a result. A voting issue. 6. I came face to face with the elderly care crisis, and shared my experience with you. Again a crucial issue for the ballot box, no. And who knows where I myself might want to spend my final days. 7. I have a football club in London which consumes far too much of my life, still 5-6 games a year in person. 8. I hope you would agree that I am fully engaged with the UK political scene as much as any Lifer on this thread, so however I vote, its as well informed a vote as most people who are UK resident. 9 You might also agree that I am an "active" citizen, the Olympic Stadium thing being an example. How many Lifers are on regular speaking terms with a GLA Mayoral candidate and other AMs?
Now you may say, oh, that's just you, Prague, you are a bit odd. And certainly the last bit I have to concede :-). But there are many many British people with a similar list to mine currently in the EU. You may find that difficult to believe because as you say, it's not something you personally would conceive of doing. Which is also OK. But IMO the island mentality is the reason why many Brits think people like me are "emigrants," or more sadly "traitors". Here on the continent a much higher % of people have a similar life, especially Benelux and Scandis.
Let me put it a different way to you. As you know, a significant number of English people have moved north to Scotland, because they agreed with the political direction of Scotland, and don't mind the weather :-). Depending on wind direction, a flight from Prague can reach London in the same or less time than a flight from Aberdeen, and for much the same fare.
So...what you would you say to me in this context, if Aberdeen rather than Prague is where I had "emigrated" to?
I'd say you were still living in the UK and had not emigrated.
Well I kind of expected that was what you'd fire back, and assume, perhaps unfairly, that you didn't give much thought to the detail of the case I set out.
So let's discuss it on your own terms. What would then have been your position re my status had Scotland voted for independence in the last referendum (before the Brexit one, of course)?
PS, see you on Oct 17, I trust...
Sorry, not avoiding the question, but I'm literally out the door.
No problem, I am out to, on the way to Berlin. By train, natch.
I would like to ideally ask you ( and anyone else who thinks I ahoukd not be allowed to vote: what, in a mature democracy, is a "citizen"?
I don't know why you think I said you should not be allowed to vote ? I never said that, don't think that and don't believe I even hinted at such a notion. If you're entitled to vote that's 100% ok with me.
As for if Scotland were no longer part of the UK and you or I moved there. I'd say you/I have to live with the consequences of our life choice, whatever that may be.
He's not entitled to vote though, which was a ridiculous decision made by the High Court, although I believe @PragueAddick found a loophole. Excluding any citizen (NOT resident) from voting does seem a little ridiculous to me.
It will be interesting to see what “emergency” motions are discussed at The Labour Party conference. I can’t believe that there will not be a plethora relating to the latest Brexit developments.
McCluskey has said this morning that if there is a second referendum remain should not be on the ballot paper. What a fuck up this is. Tory supporters want to leave and are led by a remainder, labour supporters want to remain and are led by brexiteers
Punctuation (formerly sometimes called pointing) is the use of spacing, conventional signs end certain typographical devices as aids to the understanding and correct reading of handwritten and printed text whether read silently or aloud.[1] Another description is "The practice action or system of inserting points or other small marks into texts in order to aid interpretation; division of text into sentences, clauses, etc., by means of such marks."[2]
Did you bother with punctuation in the writing of your dissertation ?
Very creepy but funny though...I dont pick out yours, but keep it up takes you off track...
Once again I would like to gently remind you and others that people who make their home in other EU countries have probably not "left" the UK in the sense that people who emigrated to Oz, the US or China have. Once again in my case:
1. I am, and intend to remain, a UK citizen 2. I pay as much UK income tax as many Lifers on this thread. I should have a say in how that's spent, no? 3. I have fully paid up my NI contribs, so ought to have a say on the State pension front, no? 4. I have family back in Eltham as you know 5. Because they are of modest means, I help my sister with the Uni fees for her kids. So obviously I have strong views on Unis and further educations too, as a result. A voting issue. 6. I came face to face with the elderly care crisis, and shared my experience with you. Again a crucial issue for the ballot box, no. And who knows where I myself might want to spend my final days. 7. I have a football club in London which consumes far too much of my life, still 5-6 games a year in person. 8. I hope you would agree that I am fully engaged with the UK political scene as much as any Lifer on this thread, so however I vote, its as well informed a vote as most people who are UK resident. 9 You might also agree that I am an "active" citizen, the Olympic Stadium thing being an example. How many Lifers are on regular speaking terms with a GLA Mayoral candidate and other AMs?
Now you may say, oh, that's just you, Prague, you are a bit odd. And certainly the last bit I have to concede :-). But there are many many British people with a similar list to mine currently in the EU. You may find that difficult to believe because as you say, it's not something you personally would conceive of doing. Which is also OK. But IMO the island mentality is the reason why many Brits think people like me are "emigrants," or more sadly "traitors". Here on the continent a much higher % of people have a similar life, especially Benelux and Scandis.
Let me put it a different way to you. As you know, a significant number of English people have moved north to Scotland, because they agreed with the political direction of Scotland, and don't mind the weather :-). Depending on wind direction, a flight from Prague can reach London in the same or less time than a flight from Aberdeen, and for much the same fare.
So...what you would you say to me in this context, if Aberdeen rather than Prague is where I had "emigrated" to?
I'd say you were still living in the UK and had not emigrated.
Well I kind of expected that was what you'd fire back, and assume, perhaps unfairly, that you didn't give much thought to the detail of the case I set out.
So let's discuss it on your own terms. What would then have been your position re my status had Scotland voted for independence in the last referendum (before the Brexit one, of course)?
PS, see you on Oct 17, I trust...
Sorry, not avoiding the question, but I'm literally out the door.
No problem, I am out to, on the way to Berlin. By train, natch.
I would like to ideally ask you ( and anyone else who thinks I ahoukd not be allowed to vote: what, in a mature democracy, is a "citizen"?
I don't know why you think I said you should not be allowed to vote ? I never said that, don't think that and don't believe I even hinted at such a notion. If you're entitled to vote that's 100% ok with me.
As for if Scotland were no longer part of the UK and you or I moved there. I'd say you/I have to live with the consequences of our life choice, whatever that may be.
He's not entitled to vote though, which was a ridiculous decision made by the High Court, although I believe @PragueAddick found a loophole. Excluding any citizen (NOT resident) from voting does seem a little ridiculous to me.
Punctuation (formerly sometimes called pointing) is the use of spacing, conventional signs end certain typographical devices as aids to the understanding and correct reading of handwritten and printed text whether read silently or aloud.[1] Another description is "The practice action or system of inserting points or other small marks into texts in order to aid interpretation; division of text into sentences, clauses, etc., by means of such marks."[2]
Did you bother with punctuation in the writing of your dissertation ?
Very creepy but funny though...I dont pick out yours, but keep it up takes you off track...
"Very creepy, but funny though... I don't pick out yours.But keep it up:it takes you off track..."
McCluskey has said this morning that if there is a second referendum remain should not be on the ballot paper. What a fuck up this is. Tory supporters want to leave and are led by a remainder, labour supporters want to remain and are led by brexiteers
My views and that of Len McCluskey are normally poles apart, but that is something on which we both agree.
Punctuation (formerly sometimes called pointing) is the use of spacing, conventional signs end certain typographical devices as aids to the understanding and correct reading of handwritten and printed text whether read silently or aloud.[1] Another description is "The practice action or system of inserting points or other small marks into texts in order to aid interpretation; division of text into sentences, clauses, etc., by means of such marks."[2]
Did you bother with punctuation in the writing of your dissertation ?
Very creepy but funny though...I dont pick out yours, but keep it up takes you off track...
"Very creepy, but funny though... I don't pick out yours.But keep it up:it takes you off track..."
Punctuation (formerly sometimes called pointing) is the use of spacing, conventional signs end certain typographical devices as aids to the understanding and correct reading of handwritten and printed text whether read silently or aloud.[1] Another description is "The practice action or system of inserting points or other small marks into texts in order to aid interpretation; division of text into sentences, clauses, etc., by means of such marks."[2]
Did you bother with punctuation in the writing of your dissertation ?
Very creepy but funny though...I dont pick out yours, but keep it up takes you off track...
"Very creepy, but funny though... I don't pick out yours.But keep it up:it takes you off track..."
You on drugs again.
Just trying out a subtitle service for some of your posts.
Punctuation (formerly sometimes called pointing) is the use of spacing, conventional signs end certain typographical devices as aids to the understanding and correct reading of handwritten and printed text whether read silently or aloud.[1] Another description is "The practice action or system of inserting points or other small marks into texts in order to aid interpretation; division of text into sentences, clauses, etc., by means of such marks."[2]
Did you bother with punctuation in the writing of your dissertation ?
Very creepy but funny though...I dont pick out yours, but keep it up takes you off track...
"Very creepy, but funny though... I don't pick out yours.But keep it up:it takes you off track..."
You on drugs again.
Just trying out a subtitle service for some of your posts.
Glass houses me old china.....or should that be China.....where is your other half.
Punctuation (formerly sometimes called pointing) is the use of spacing, conventional signs end certain typographical devices as aids to the understanding and correct reading of handwritten and printed text whether read silently or aloud.[1] Another description is "The practice action or system of inserting points or other small marks into texts in order to aid interpretation; division of text into sentences, clauses, etc., by means of such marks."[2]
Did you bother with punctuation in the writing of your dissertation ?
Very creepy but funny though...I dont pick out yours, but keep it up takes you off track...
"Very creepy, but funny though... I don't pick out yours.But keep it up:it takes you off track..."
Comments
They are genuine in respecting the referendum and thus will not openly support an obvious remain position such as the Norway option. Many would like them to change. The Guardian reports on a poll showing that close to 90% of Labour Party members support a people's vote. So what Labour can do now is back democracy - how? Quite simply, Labour has a democratic structure in terms of voting for their NEC and delegates voting on motions at their conference. Tomorrow, the little known Conference Arrangements Commitee will agree or supervise(?) the composite exercise for the hundreds of motions submitted. Don't know how this works but in just over 24 hours we will know what motions will actually be debated and then voted upon. For those not familiar, a composite is simply a merger / cut and paste of all motions submitted on certain topics by the wider Labour movement.
Many have criticised Corbyn around Brexit - but it's hard to see how or why Labour will not debate the People's Vote concept next week. And if they do, they will in turn be backing a democratic exercise to enable the electorate to choose between Remain, Leave with No Deal, or whatever deal is offered by M.Barnier.
Unlike the Tories, Labour should be able to cut a deal quite quickly with the EU27 because they understand the Irish border, they are not against the ECJ and they are deliberately ambiguous about immigration. However, to deliver that they first have to be in power and not opposition.
So yes, we can all agree that the UK is miles apart from the EU right now. And the first step to closing that gap is for Labour to back a People's Vote, not least because that will inflame the Hard Right who are against such a vote for fear of losing it. Anything that makes May's job harder, should bring forward her demise. And thus make it easier to cut a deal or simply agree to a transition deal for a lot longer, say five years.
We all know Brexit is extremely complicated - those who claimed it would be simple have left the cabinet. They were unable to deliver. We are now approaching the end game - before that we have the party conferences and more meetings with the EU27. And we can be fairly sure that no deal will be agreed by end October - so what happens then?
If Peter Kellner is correct AND Labour choose to support a people's vote then they could surge by 5% in the polls just as May is failing with M.Barnier. No guarantees but that's where we might be in a month?
Punctuation (formerly sometimes called pointing) is the use of spacing, conventional signs end certain typographical devices as aids to the understanding and correct reading of handwritten and printed text whether read silently or aloud.[1] Another description is "The practice action or system of inserting points or other small marks into texts in order to aid interpretation; division of text into sentences, clauses, etc., by means of such marks."[2]
Did you bother with punctuation in the writing of your dissertation ?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/23/labour-brexit-peoples-vote-liverpool?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
As the latter would say, we will see....
I never said that, don't think that and don't believe I even hinted at such a notion.
If you're entitled to vote that's 100% ok with me.
As for if Scotland were no longer part of the UK and you or I moved there.
I'd say you/I have to live with the consequences of our life choice, whatever that may be.
No-one would guess I'm a civil servant.
If there is a second referendum is should say ‘please vote for
A) what we have now
B ) the leave offer we have negotiated
c) leave with no deal’
Always assuming that a) is actually possible.
Wtf ?
There won’t be a second vote anyways.