Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
This is what I have said all along too John, and it was the basis of my comment to Blackpool about his grasp on reality. And indeed his other little helpers as it turns out.
The EU are not leaving Britain, Britain is leaving the EU. How is that so difficult for some people to understand?
All the points that Blackpool came up with have been dissected and rubbished before, and Nornirish has taken the time and trouble to do it again and explain why on every point he is wrong, I am wiling to bet that Blackpool still wont grasp it.
And no doubt in five or six pages time one of them will repeat the same old bullshit again. What is the point in coming up with responses to the nonsense when it is ignored? I can't be bothered to keep repeating the same answers over and over to people with their eyes shut and their fingers in theirs ears, so I choose to sum up the actual reality in one sentence.
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
This really is a dark time for UK politics, what a mess. If the Tory's had a proper opposition we'd be in a much better state.
Boris, Corbyn, Grayling, Gove, Raab, Davies and loads more, how are they still involved in politics?
The lot of them have failed, I can't think of a way I could fuck up everything so bad and still have my job.
John McDonnell today saying that if they won a snap election, they'd carry on with Brexit but get a better deal. How? Why not put your plan out there now and see how the EU react?
The EU have their Red line, we have ours and they're miles apart.
The 40 billion won't last long if we don't get a deal sorted.
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
But you are the star player and they can't do without you in the team...mean while the other players are falling out and pretty soon will break up.
One of the tendentious things that has surfaced in the last couple of pages is the assertion that May is or was a "Remainer". She isn't really, and that is the problem. She hardly said a word in the run up to the referendum. She is just one of those Tories who doesn't really like the EU but couldn't see a better practical alternative that could keep the Tories in power (always remember that objective). A proper Remainer politician is one who likes and respects our neigbouring countries generally, believes in co-operation and sees the benefits of it. Within the Tory party they have usually been in the past "One Nation Tories" people who don't fall under the spell of self-serving hard right dogma and theories. Unfortunately many of them are dead, or certainly past their political prime (Clarke, Heseltine, Major). The newer serious Remainers like Anna Soubery are currently too lightweight to lead. I cannot even name another than her right now.
May isn't one of them. She is not really a European, she does not understand the mindset of the politicians and peoples of those countries because she has never been that interested in them. Last week's car crash would not have befallen a One Nation Tory because they understand them much better than May does.
But then some people (not just on here), come to the opposite conclusion, that a "true" Brexiteer should have led the talks. They hardly seem to notice that this implies one of the following should be Prime Minister. Leader of the people of the UK:
Boris Johnson Michael Gove Andrea fucking Leadsom or "best" of all, Jacob Rees-Mogg.
and with that thought I wish us all a nice weekend
sorry folks that should read. I posted last year about my insider at the top of this government. He said at the time "This country will be fucked without an agreement with the E.U". Mrs May is attempting to limit the damage that Brexit will inflict on this country.
Anything from him on the latest developments?
Haven't spoke to him for while so not sure about his view on the latest debacle, although he was very clear about a no deal scenario the last time we met. He is married to my niece and we do meet at family gatherings but we move in totally different circles. He's actually a Newcastle united supporter and came with me the last time they played at the valley.
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
This is what I have said all along too John, and it was the basis of my comment to Blackpool about his grasp on reality. And indeed his other little helpers as it turns out.
The EU are not leaving Britain, Britain is leaving the EU. How is that so difficult for some people to understand?
All the points that Blackpool came up with have been dissected and rubbished before, and Nornirish has taken the time and trouble to do it again and explain why on every point he is wrong, I am wiling to bet that Blackpool still wont grasp it.
And no doubt in five or six pages time one of them will repeat the same old bullshit again. What is the point in coming up with responses to the nonsense when it is ignored? I can't be bothered to keep repeating the same answers over and over to people with their eyes shut and their fingers in theirs ears, so I choose to sum up the actual reality in one sentence.
Firstly there is no need to be rude. I have not been rude to you. Secondly there is nothing wrong with my grasp of reality. We see things differently and that is the purpose of there threads so that we can exchange views. As I have stated before I do not believe that we will be the last country to leave the EU in fact I believe in 10 or 15 years time when it becomes obvious that certain countries are doing far better than others that the whole thing will collapse. Greece for example will never be able to repay their debts to the EU and can only ever start to recover by leaving and coming out of the Euro. When and this is only my opinion of course that it does happen we will be well clear of the chaos that will follow
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
This is what I have said all along too John, and it was the basis of my comment to Blackpool about his grasp on reality. And indeed his other little helpers as it turns out.
The EU are not leaving Britain, Britain is leaving the EU. How is that so difficult for some people to understand?
All the points that Blackpool came up with have been dissected and rubbished before, and Nornirish has taken the time and trouble to do it again and explain why on every point he is wrong, I am wiling to bet that Blackpool still wont grasp it.
And no doubt in five or six pages time one of them will repeat the same old bullshit again. What is the point in coming up with responses to the nonsense when it is ignored? I can't be bothered to keep repeating the same answers over and over to people with their eyes shut and their fingers in theirs ears, so I choose to sum up the actual reality in one sentence.
Firstly there is no need to be rude.
Some people can't seem to help it, probably best to ignore them.
One of the tendentious things that has surfaced in the last couple of pages is the assertion that May is or was a "Remainer". She isn't really, and that is the problem. She hardly said a word in the run up to the referendum. She is just one of those Tories who doesn't really like the EU but couldn't see a better practical alternative that could keep the Tories in power (always remember that objective). A proper Remainer politician is one who likes and respects our neigbouring countries generally, believes in co-operation and sees the benefits of it. Within the Tory party they have usually been in the past "One Nation Tories" people who don't fall under the spell of self-serving hard right dogma and theories. Unfortunately many of them are dead, or certainly past their political prime (Clarke, Heseltine, Major). The newer serious Remainers like Anna Soubery are currently too lightweight to lead. I cannot even name another than her right now.
May isn't one of them. She is not really a European, she does not understand the mindset of the politicians and peoples of those countries because she has never been that interested in them. Last week's car crash would not have befallen a One Nation Tory because they understand them much better than May does.
But then some people (not just on here), come to the opposite conclusion, that a "true" Brexiteer should have led the talks. They hardly seem to notice that this implies one of the following should be Prime Minister. Leader of the people of the UK:
Boris Johnson Michael Gove Andrea fucking Leadsom or "best" of all, Jacob Rees-Mogg.
and with that thought I wish us all a nice weekend
I would say that pro-Europe politicians are in short supply in this country because they have only a small constituency to work with. Most Remainers of my acquaintance see the EU as a necessary evil at best. Outright pro-Europeans like Clegg and his Party have only a very small minority supporting them.
After 2 years of car crash developments there is still no sign that either main Party will adopt a Remain position. As a Leaver I think this is to be regretted as it means there can be no easy way of resolving the impasse. A Gove led ( and I think he did a great deal of good to our education system, by the way) Tory Party versus an Umumma Labour Party would offer us a clear choice.
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
This is what I have said all along too John, and it was the basis of my comment to Blackpool about his grasp on reality. And indeed his other little helpers as it turns out.
The EU are not leaving Britain, Britain is leaving the EU. How is that so difficult for some people to understand?
All the points that Blackpool came up with have been dissected and rubbished before, and Nornirish has taken the time and trouble to do it again and explain why on every point he is wrong, I am wiling to bet that Blackpool still wont grasp it.
And no doubt in five or six pages time one of them will repeat the same old bullshit again. What is the point in coming up with responses to the nonsense when it is ignored? I can't be bothered to keep repeating the same answers over and over to people with their eyes shut and their fingers in theirs ears, so I choose to sum up the actual reality in one sentence.
Firstly there is no need to be rude. I have not been rude to you. Secondly there is nothing wrong with my grasp of reality. We see things differently and that is the purpose of there threads so that we can exchange views. As I have stated before I do not believe that we will be the last country to leave the EU in fact I believe in 10 or 15 years time when it becomes obvious that certain countries are doing far better than others that the whole thing will collapse. Greece for example will never be able to repay their debts to the EU and can only ever start to recover by leaving and coming out of the Euro. When and this is only my opinion of course that it does happen we will be well clear of the chaos that will follow
It's very hard not to be rude when someone else's ill thought out decision has already had a detrimental impact on me personally, and may have an even worse impact in the months to come. However, apologies Blackpool, you are right, I shouldn't be rude - I am sure you are a thoroughly pleasant chap in all other matters.
Going back to the original post that got my feathers so ruffled, as I stated, all the things you say have been knocked back in the past, and now, once again, quite succinctly by Nornirish. So I hope that you can at least understand the frustration of seeing the same opinions being rehashed over and over, then the facts that show the erroneous nature of those opinions being ignored over and over? The bowls club analogy is a good one, the thing that was missing was the commitment you had made to help finance the purchase of more land, that you now want to wash your hands of, despite signing the agreement to do so...
Your belief that we will not be the last country to leave the EU may be right, a few years ago you may well have said the same of Portugal as you are now saying of Greece. Things are going pretty well here now after a few years of austerity, it's not perfect, but as one of the former "PIG" economies, along with the "I" of that acronym, we/they are not heading out of the EU anytime soon. If Ireland and Portugal can recover (to a certain extent) there's only one thing holding Greece back from at least trying - that's Greece having the same half arsed attitude to the EU as half the people in the UK do...
Leaving the Euro/EU wont cancel Greece's debts, and I think maybe one could argue (I'm no economist, so I am happy to be shot down in flames by those that understand these things better than me) that a Greece-free Euro would actually be a stronger currency? Just a thought?
One of the tendentious things that has surfaced in the last couple of pages is the assertion that May is or was a "Remainer". She isn't really, and that is the problem. She hardly said a word in the run up to the referendum. She is just one of those Tories who doesn't really like the EU but couldn't see a better practical alternative that could keep the Tories in power (always remember that objective). A proper Remainer politician is one who likes and respects our neigbouring countries generally, believes in co-operation and sees the benefits of it. Within the Tory party they have usually been in the past "One Nation Tories" people who don't fall under the spell of self-serving hard right dogma and theories. Unfortunately many of them are dead, or certainly past their political prime (Clarke, Heseltine, Major). The newer serious Remainers like Anna Soubery are currently too lightweight to lead. I cannot even name another than her right now.
May isn't one of them. She is not really a European, she does not understand the mindset of the politicians and peoples of those countries because she has never been that interested in them. Last week's car crash would not have befallen a One Nation Tory because they understand them much better than May does.
But then some people (not just on here), come to the opposite conclusion, that a "true" Brexiteer should have led the talks. They hardly seem to notice that this implies one of the following should be Prime Minister. Leader of the people of the UK:
Boris Johnson Michael Gove Andrea fucking Leadsom or "best" of all, Jacob Rees-Mogg.
and with that thought I wish us all a nice weekend
Given that the UK voted to leave the EU, who would you put forward as the best politician from any party to deliver this? I'm not talking Bino but really leave the EU. I am happy to repeat that I don't know of any of our current crop that might cut the mustard.
Just a point, you can like Europeans, their diverse cultures and wish to engage in cooperation with our neighbours but not like the direction of the EU or it's bureaucrats and therefore vote for Brexit without it being contradictory. Some 'swivel eyed' remainers simply can't get their heads around this fact.
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
This is what I have said all along too John, and it was the basis of my comment to Blackpool about his grasp on reality. And indeed his other little helpers as it turns out.
The EU are not leaving Britain, Britain is leaving the EU. How is that so difficult for some people to understand?
All the points that Blackpool came up with have been dissected and rubbished before, and Nornirish has taken the time and trouble to do it again and explain why on every point he is wrong, I am wiling to bet that Blackpool still wont grasp it.
And no doubt in five or six pages time one of them will repeat the same old bullshit again. What is the point in coming up with responses to the nonsense when it is ignored? I can't be bothered to keep repeating the same answers over and over to people with their eyes shut and their fingers in theirs ears, so I choose to sum up the actual reality in one sentence.
Firstly there is no need to be rude. I have not been rude to you. Secondly there is nothing wrong with my grasp of reality. We see things differently and that is the purpose of there threads so that we can exchange views. As I have stated before I do not believe that we will be the last country to leave the EU in fact I believe in 10 or 15 years time when it becomes obvious that certain countries are doing far better than others that the whole thing will collapse. Greece for example will never be able to repay their debts to the EU and can only ever start to recover by leaving and coming out of the Euro. When and this is only my opinion of course that it does happen we will be well clear of the chaos that will follow
It's very hard not to be rude when someone else's ill thought out decision has already had a detrimental impact on me personally, and may have an even worse impact in the months to come. However, apologies Blackpool, you are right, I shouldn't be rude - I am sure you are a thoroughly pleasant chap in all other matters.
Going back to the original post that got my feathers so ruffled, as I stated, all the things you say have been knocked back in the past, and now, once again, quite succinctly by Nornirish. So I hope that you can at least understand the frustration of seeing the same opinions being rehashed over and over, then the facts that show the erroneous nature of those opinions being ignored over and over? The bowls club analogy is a good one, the thing that was missing was the commitment you had made to help finance the purchase of more land, that you now want to wash your hands of, despite signing the agreement to do so...
Your belief that we will not be the last country to leave the EU may be right, a few years ago you may well have said the same of Portugal as you are now saying of Greece. Things are going pretty well here now after a few years of austerity, it's not perfect, but as one of the former "PIG" economies, along with the "I" of that acronym, we/they are not heading out of the EU anytime soon. If Ireland and Portugal can recover (to a certain extent) there's only one thing holding Greece back from at least trying - that's Greece having the same half arsed attitude to the EU as half the people in the UK do...
Leaving the Euro/EU wont cancel Greece's debts, and I think maybe one could argue (I'm no economist, so I am happy to be shot down in flames by those that understand these things better than me) that a Greece-free Euro would actually be a stronger currency? Just a thought?
Algarve, with the greatest respect, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for the people living in the UK.
The vote was not about what was best for people who used to live in the UK, but have now chosen to live in the Algarve, Prague, Madrid or anywhere else in Europe.
Quite frankly, there should never have been a referendum and I'm sick to death of it all. When a conclusion is reached the 2 alternatives should be put to a public vote.
1 Remain 2 Take the deal offered or a no deal scenario, if that is the only alternative to remaining.
Then we shall be voting on a specific choice and should proceed accordingly.
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
This is what I have said all along too John, and it was the basis of my comment to Blackpool about his grasp on reality. And indeed his other little helpers as it turns out.
The EU are not leaving Britain, Britain is leaving the EU. How is that so difficult for some people to understand?
All the points that Blackpool came up with have been dissected and rubbished before, and Nornirish has taken the time and trouble to do it again and explain why on every point he is wrong, I am wiling to bet that Blackpool still wont grasp it.
And no doubt in five or six pages time one of them will repeat the same old bullshit again. What is the point in coming up with responses to the nonsense when it is ignored? I can't be bothered to keep repeating the same answers over and over to people with their eyes shut and their fingers in theirs ears, so I choose to sum up the actual reality in one sentence.
What I understand is that were leaving not the eu. I don't expect an easy ride from the eu and they won't be sending over backwards. Even if the eu wanted to give us a bit more of an easy ride they can't as a few other eu countries would want to do the off. Although I agree with Blackpool s yesterday I can't see the UK telling the eu were going on our own
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
This is what I have said all along too John, and it was the basis of my comment to Blackpool about his grasp on reality. And indeed his other little helpers as it turns out.
The EU are not leaving Britain, Britain is leaving the EU. How is that so difficult for some people to understand?
All the points that Blackpool came up with have been dissected and rubbished before, and Nornirish has taken the time and trouble to do it again and explain why on every point he is wrong, I am wiling to bet that Blackpool still wont grasp it.
And no doubt in five or six pages time one of them will repeat the same old bullshit again. What is the point in coming up with responses to the nonsense when it is ignored? I can't be bothered to keep repeating the same answers over and over to people with their eyes shut and their fingers in theirs ears, so I choose to sum up the actual reality in one sentence.
Firstly there is no need to be rude. I have not been rude to you. Secondly there is nothing wrong with my grasp of reality. We see things differently and that is the purpose of there threads so that we can exchange views. As I have stated before I do not believe that we will be the last country to leave the EU in fact I believe in 10 or 15 years time when it becomes obvious that certain countries are doing far better than others that the whole thing will collapse. Greece for example will never be able to repay their debts to the EU and can only ever start to recover by leaving and coming out of the Euro. When and this is only my opinion of course that it does happen we will be well clear of the chaos that will follow
It's very hard not to be rude when someone else's ill thought out decision has already had a detrimental impact on me personally, and may have an even worse impact in the months to come. However, apologies Blackpool, you are right, I shouldn't be rude - I am sure you are a thoroughly pleasant chap in all other matters.
Going back to the original post that got my feathers so ruffled, as I stated, all the things you say have been knocked back in the past, and now, once again, quite succinctly by Nornirish. So I hope that you can at least understand the frustration of seeing the same opinions being rehashed over and over, then the facts that show the erroneous nature of those opinions being ignored over and over? The bowls club analogy is a good one, the thing that was missing was the commitment you had made to help finance the purchase of more land, that you now want to wash your hands of, despite signing the agreement to do so...
Your belief that we will not be the last country to leave the EU may be right, a few years ago you may well have said the same of Portugal as you are now saying of Greece. Things are going pretty well here now after a few years of austerity, it's not perfect, but as one of the former "PIG" economies, along with the "I" of that acronym, we/they are not heading out of the EU anytime soon. If Ireland and Portugal can recover (to a certain extent) there's only one thing holding Greece back from at least trying - that's Greece having the same half arsed attitude to the EU as half the people in the UK do...
Leaving the Euro/EU wont cancel Greece's debts, and I think maybe one could argue (I'm no economist, so I am happy to be shot down in flames by those that understand these things better than me) that a Greece-free Euro would actually be a stronger currency? Just a thought?
Algarve, with the greatest respect, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for the people living in the UK.
The vote was not about what was best for people who used to live in the UK, but have now chosen to live in the Algarve, Prague, Madrid or anywhere else in Europe.
Quite frankly, there should never have been a referendum and I'm sick to death of it all. When a conclusion is reached the 2 alternatives should be put to a public vote.
1 Remain 2 Take the deal offered or a no deal scenario, if that is the only alternative to remaining.
Then we shall be voting on a specific choice and should proceed accordingly.
I am entitled to have the hump that a decision based on exaggeration, lies and stupidity (in some cases) has cost me personally. I don't stop being affected by decisions made by the UK because I don't live there.
Anyway, in fact, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for non-foreign people living in the UK...
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
This is what I have said all along too John, and it was the basis of my comment to Blackpool about his grasp on reality. And indeed his other little helpers as it turns out.
The EU are not leaving Britain, Britain is leaving the EU. How is that so difficult for some people to understand?
All the points that Blackpool came up with have been dissected and rubbished before, and Nornirish has taken the time and trouble to do it again and explain why on every point he is wrong, I am wiling to bet that Blackpool still wont grasp it.
And no doubt in five or six pages time one of them will repeat the same old bullshit again. What is the point in coming up with responses to the nonsense when it is ignored? I can't be bothered to keep repeating the same answers over and over to people with their eyes shut and their fingers in theirs ears, so I choose to sum up the actual reality in one sentence.
Firstly there is no need to be rude. I have not been rude to you. Secondly there is nothing wrong with my grasp of reality. We see things differently and that is the purpose of there threads so that we can exchange views. As I have stated before I do not believe that we will be the last country to leave the EU in fact I believe in 10 or 15 years time when it becomes obvious that certain countries are doing far better than others that the whole thing will collapse. Greece for example will never be able to repay their debts to the EU and can only ever start to recover by leaving and coming out of the Euro. When and this is only my opinion of course that it does happen we will be well clear of the chaos that will follow
It's very hard not to be rude when someone else's ill thought out decision has already had a detrimental impact on me personally, and may have an even worse impact in the months to come. However, apologies Blackpool, you are right, I shouldn't be rude - I am sure you are a thoroughly pleasant chap in all other matters.
Going back to the original post that got my feathers so ruffled, as I stated, all the things you say have been knocked back in the past, and now, once again, quite succinctly by Nornirish. So I hope that you can at least understand the frustration of seeing the same opinions being rehashed over and over, then the facts that show the erroneous nature of those opinions being ignored over and over? The bowls club analogy is a good one, the thing that was missing was the commitment you had made to help finance the purchase of more land, that you now want to wash your hands of, despite signing the agreement to do so...
Your belief that we will not be the last country to leave the EU may be right, a few years ago you may well have said the same of Portugal as you are now saying of Greece. Things are going pretty well here now after a few years of austerity, it's not perfect, but as one of the former "PIG" economies, along with the "I" of that acronym, we/they are not heading out of the EU anytime soon. If Ireland and Portugal can recover (to a certain extent) there's only one thing holding Greece back from at least trying - that's Greece having the same half arsed attitude to the EU as half the people in the UK do...
Leaving the Euro/EU wont cancel Greece's debts, and I think maybe one could argue (I'm no economist, so I am happy to be shot down in flames by those that understand these things better than me) that a Greece-free Euro would actually be a stronger currency? Just a thought?
Algarve, with the greatest respect, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for the people living in the UK.
The vote was not about what was best for people who used to live in the UK, but have now chosen to live in the Algarve, Prague, Madrid or anywhere else in Europe.
Quite frankly, there should never have been a referendum and I'm sick to death of it all. When a conclusion is reached the 2 alternatives should be put to a public vote.
1 Remain 2 Take the deal offered or a no deal scenario, if that is the only alternative to remaining.
Then we shall be voting on a specific choice and should proceed accordingly.
I am entitled to have the hump that a decision based on exaggeration, lies and stupidity (in some cases) has cost me personally. I don't stop being affected by decisions made by the UK because I don't live there.
Anyway, in fact, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for non-foreign people living in the UK...
Personally, I believe moving abroad is higher risk than remaining in the UK.
I've known a number of people that have moved or retired abroad and I have to say I'll never be "brave" enough to do so.
Added to this is that I have no desire to do so.
If you take higher risk decisions then I'm afraid you have to live with the consequences.
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
This is what I have said all along too John, and it was the basis of my comment to Blackpool about his grasp on reality. And indeed his other little helpers as it turns out.
The EU are not leaving Britain, Britain is leaving the EU. How is that so difficult for some people to understand?
All the points that Blackpool came up with have been dissected and rubbished before, and Nornirish has taken the time and trouble to do it again and explain why on every point he is wrong, I am wiling to bet that Blackpool still wont grasp it.
And no doubt in five or six pages time one of them will repeat the same old bullshit again. What is the point in coming up with responses to the nonsense when it is ignored? I can't be bothered to keep repeating the same answers over and over to people with their eyes shut and their fingers in theirs ears, so I choose to sum up the actual reality in one sentence.
Firstly there is no need to be rude. I have not been rude to you. Secondly there is nothing wrong with my grasp of reality. We see things differently and that is the purpose of there threads so that we can exchange views. As I have stated before I do not believe that we will be the last country to leave the EU in fact I believe in 10 or 15 years time when it becomes obvious that certain countries are doing far better than others that the whole thing will collapse. Greece for example will never be able to repay their debts to the EU and can only ever start to recover by leaving and coming out of the Euro. When and this is only my opinion of course that it does happen we will be well clear of the chaos that will follow
It's very hard not to be rude when someone else's ill thought out decision has already had a detrimental impact on me personally, and may have an even worse impact in the months to come. However, apologies Blackpool, you are right, I shouldn't be rude - I am sure you are a thoroughly pleasant chap in all other matters.
Going back to the original post that got my feathers so ruffled, as I stated, all the things you say have been knocked back in the past, and now, once again, quite succinctly by Nornirish. So I hope that you can at least understand the frustration of seeing the same opinions being rehashed over and over, then the facts that show the erroneous nature of those opinions being ignored over and over? The bowls club analogy is a good one, the thing that was missing was the commitment you had made to help finance the purchase of more land, that you now want to wash your hands of, despite signing the agreement to do so...
Your belief that we will not be the last country to leave the EU may be right, a few years ago you may well have said the same of Portugal as you are now saying of Greece. Things are going pretty well here now after a few years of austerity, it's not perfect, but as one of the former "PIG" economies, along with the "I" of that acronym, we/they are not heading out of the EU anytime soon. If Ireland and Portugal can recover (to a certain extent) there's only one thing holding Greece back from at least trying - that's Greece having the same half arsed attitude to the EU as half the people in the UK do...
Leaving the Euro/EU wont cancel Greece's debts, and I think maybe one could argue (I'm no economist, so I am happy to be shot down in flames by those that understand these things better than me) that a Greece-free Euro would actually be a stronger currency? Just a thought?
Algarve, with the greatest respect, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for the people living in the UK.
The vote was not about what was best for people who used to live in the UK, but have now chosen to live in the Algarve, Prague, Madrid or anywhere else in Europe.
Quite frankly, there should never have been a referendum and I'm sick to death of it all. When a conclusion is reached the 2 alternatives should be put to a public vote.
1 Remain 2 Take the deal offered or a no deal scenario, if that is the only alternative to remaining.
Then we shall be voting on a specific choice and should proceed accordingly.
I am entitled to have the hump that a decision based on exaggeration, lies and stupidity (in some cases) has cost me personally. I don't stop being affected by decisions made by the UK because I don't live there.
Anyway, in fact, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for non-foreign people living in the UK...
Personally, I believe moving abroad is higher risk than remaining in the UK.
I've known a number of people that have moved or retired abroad and I have to say I'll never be "brave" enough to do so.
Added to this is that I have no desire to do so.
If you take higher risk decisions then I'm afraid you have to live with the consequences.
Once again, I say this with the greatest respect.
Taking no offence whatsoever here CE, don't worry.
It was not a higher risk, the decision of 37% of the British public has made it a higher risk, a lot of them have made that decision for spurious reasons - see umpteen posts above.
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
This is what I have said all along too John, and it was the basis of my comment to Blackpool about his grasp on reality. And indeed his other little helpers as it turns out.
The EU are not leaving Britain, Britain is leaving the EU. How is that so difficult for some people to understand?
All the points that Blackpool came up with have been dissected and rubbished before, and Nornirish has taken the time and trouble to do it again and explain why on every point he is wrong, I am wiling to bet that Blackpool still wont grasp it.
And no doubt in five or six pages time one of them will repeat the same old bullshit again. What is the point in coming up with responses to the nonsense when it is ignored? I can't be bothered to keep repeating the same answers over and over to people with their eyes shut and their fingers in theirs ears, so I choose to sum up the actual reality in one sentence.
Firstly there is no need to be rude. I have not been rude to you. Secondly there is nothing wrong with my grasp of reality. We see things differently and that is the purpose of there threads so that we can exchange views. As I have stated before I do not believe that we will be the last country to leave the EU in fact I believe in 10 or 15 years time when it becomes obvious that certain countries are doing far better than others that the whole thing will collapse. Greece for example will never be able to repay their debts to the EU and can only ever start to recover by leaving and coming out of the Euro. When and this is only my opinion of course that it does happen we will be well clear of the chaos that will follow
It's very hard not to be rude when someone else's ill thought out decision has already had a detrimental impact on me personally, and may have an even worse impact in the months to come. However, apologies Blackpool, you are right, I shouldn't be rude - I am sure you are a thoroughly pleasant chap in all other matters.
Going back to the original post that got my feathers so ruffled, as I stated, all the things you say have been knocked back in the past, and now, once again, quite succinctly by Nornirish. So I hope that you can at least understand the frustration of seeing the same opinions being rehashed over and over, then the facts that show the erroneous nature of those opinions being ignored over and over? The bowls club analogy is a good one, the thing that was missing was the commitment you had made to help finance the purchase of more land, that you now want to wash your hands of, despite signing the agreement to do so...
Your belief that we will not be the last country to leave the EU may be right, a few years ago you may well have said the same of Portugal as you are now saying of Greece. Things are going pretty well here now after a few years of austerity, it's not perfect, but as one of the former "PIG" economies, along with the "I" of that acronym, we/they are not heading out of the EU anytime soon. If Ireland and Portugal can recover (to a certain extent) there's only one thing holding Greece back from at least trying - that's Greece having the same half arsed attitude to the EU as half the people in the UK do...
Leaving the Euro/EU wont cancel Greece's debts, and I think maybe one could argue (I'm no economist, so I am happy to be shot down in flames by those that understand these things better than me) that a Greece-free Euro would actually be a stronger currency? Just a thought?
Algarve, with the greatest respect, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for the people living in the UK.
The vote was not about what was best for people who used to live in the UK, but have now chosen to live in the Algarve, Prague, Madrid or anywhere else in Europe.
Quite frankly, there should never have been a referendum and I'm sick to death of it all. When a conclusion is reached the 2 alternatives should be put to a public vote.
1 Remain 2 Take the deal offered or a no deal scenario, if that is the only alternative to remaining.
Then we shall be voting on a specific choice and should proceed accordingly.
I am entitled to have the hump that a decision based on exaggeration, lies and stupidity (in some cases) has cost me personally. I don't stop being affected by decisions made by the UK because I don't live there.
Anyway, in fact, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for non-foreign people living in the UK...
Personally, I believe moving abroad is higher risk than remaining in the UK.
I've known a number of people that have moved or retired abroad and I have to say I'll never be "brave" enough to do so.
Added to this is that I have no desire to do so.
If you take higher risk decisions then I'm afraid you have to live with the consequences.
Once again, I say this with the greatest respect.
Taking no offence whatsoever here CE, don't worry.
It was not a higher risk, the decision of 37% of the British public has made it a higher risk, a lot of them have made that decision for spurious reasons - see umpteen posts above.
Of course it was a high risk move, how can moving abroad not be?
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
This is what I have said all along too John, and it was the basis of my comment to Blackpool about his grasp on reality. And indeed his other little helpers as it turns out.
The EU are not leaving Britain, Britain is leaving the EU. How is that so difficult for some people to understand?
All the points that Blackpool came up with have been dissected and rubbished before, and Nornirish has taken the time and trouble to do it again and explain why on every point he is wrong, I am wiling to bet that Blackpool still wont grasp it.
And no doubt in five or six pages time one of them will repeat the same old bullshit again. What is the point in coming up with responses to the nonsense when it is ignored? I can't be bothered to keep repeating the same answers over and over to people with their eyes shut and their fingers in theirs ears, so I choose to sum up the actual reality in one sentence.
Firstly there is no need to be rude. I have not been rude to you. Secondly there is nothing wrong with my grasp of reality. We see things differently and that is the purpose of there threads so that we can exchange views. As I have stated before I do not believe that we will be the last country to leave the EU in fact I believe in 10 or 15 years time when it becomes obvious that certain countries are doing far better than others that the whole thing will collapse. Greece for example will never be able to repay their debts to the EU and can only ever start to recover by leaving and coming out of the Euro. When and this is only my opinion of course that it does happen we will be well clear of the chaos that will follow
It's very hard not to be rude when someone else's ill thought out decision has already had a detrimental impact on me personally, and may have an even worse impact in the months to come. However, apologies Blackpool, you are right, I shouldn't be rude - I am sure you are a thoroughly pleasant chap in all other matters.
Going back to the original post that got my feathers so ruffled, as I stated, all the things you say have been knocked back in the past, and now, once again, quite succinctly by Nornirish. So I hope that you can at least understand the frustration of seeing the same opinions being rehashed over and over, then the facts that show the erroneous nature of those opinions being ignored over and over? The bowls club analogy is a good one, the thing that was missing was the commitment you had made to help finance the purchase of more land, that you now want to wash your hands of, despite signing the agreement to do so...
Your belief that we will not be the last country to leave the EU may be right, a few years ago you may well have said the same of Portugal as you are now saying of Greece. Things are going pretty well here now after a few years of austerity, it's not perfect, but as one of the former "PIG" economies, along with the "I" of that acronym, we/they are not heading out of the EU anytime soon. If Ireland and Portugal can recover (to a certain extent) there's only one thing holding Greece back from at least trying - that's Greece having the same half arsed attitude to the EU as half the people in the UK do...
Leaving the Euro/EU wont cancel Greece's debts, and I think maybe one could argue (I'm no economist, so I am happy to be shot down in flames by those that understand these things better than me) that a Greece-free Euro would actually be a stronger currency? Just a thought?
Algarve, with the greatest respect, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for the people living in the UK.
The vote was not about what was best for people who used to live in the UK, but have now chosen to live in the Algarve, Prague, Madrid or anywhere else in Europe.
Quite frankly, there should never have been a referendum and I'm sick to death of it all. When a conclusion is reached the 2 alternatives should be put to a public vote.
1 Remain 2 Take the deal offered or a no deal scenario, if that is the only alternative to remaining.
Then we shall be voting on a specific choice and should proceed accordingly.
I am entitled to have the hump that a decision based on exaggeration, lies and stupidity (in some cases) has cost me personally. I don't stop being affected by decisions made by the UK because I don't live there.
Anyway, in fact, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for non-foreign people living in the UK...
Personally, I believe moving abroad is higher risk than remaining in the UK.
I've known a number of people that have moved or retired abroad and I have to say I'll never be "brave" enough to do so.
Added to this is that I have no desire to do so.
If you take higher risk decisions then I'm afraid you have to live with the consequences.
Once again, I say this with the greatest respect.
Taking no offence whatsoever here CE, don't worry.
It was not a higher risk, the decision of 37% of the British public has made it a higher risk, a lot of them have made that decision for spurious reasons - see umpteen posts above.
I'm presuming your situation is higher risk than mine. Tbh, whatever the outcome, I'll probably not be unduly affected.
What is your current scenario and worst case scenario ?
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
This is what I have said all along too John, and it was the basis of my comment to Blackpool about his grasp on reality. And indeed his other little helpers as it turns out.
The EU are not leaving Britain, Britain is leaving the EU. How is that so difficult for some people to understand?
All the points that Blackpool came up with have been dissected and rubbished before, and Nornirish has taken the time and trouble to do it again and explain why on every point he is wrong, I am wiling to bet that Blackpool still wont grasp it.
And no doubt in five or six pages time one of them will repeat the same old bullshit again. What is the point in coming up with responses to the nonsense when it is ignored? I can't be bothered to keep repeating the same answers over and over to people with their eyes shut and their fingers in theirs ears, so I choose to sum up the actual reality in one sentence.
Firstly there is no need to be rude. I have not been rude to you. Secondly there is nothing wrong with my grasp of reality. We see things differently and that is the purpose of there threads so that we can exchange views. As I have stated before I do not believe that we will be the last country to leave the EU in fact I believe in 10 or 15 years time when it becomes obvious that certain countries are doing far better than others that the whole thing will collapse. Greece for example will never be able to repay their debts to the EU and can only ever start to recover by leaving and coming out of the Euro. When and this is only my opinion of course that it does happen we will be well clear of the chaos that will follow
It's very hard not to be rude when someone else's ill thought out decision has already had a detrimental impact on me personally, and may have an even worse impact in the months to come. However, apologies Blackpool, you are right, I shouldn't be rude - I am sure you are a thoroughly pleasant chap in all other matters.
Going back to the original post that got my feathers so ruffled, as I stated, all the things you say have been knocked back in the past, and now, once again, quite succinctly by Nornirish. So I hope that you can at least understand the frustration of seeing the same opinions being rehashed over and over, then the facts that show the erroneous nature of those opinions being ignored over and over? The bowls club analogy is a good one, the thing that was missing was the commitment you had made to help finance the purchase of more land, that you now want to wash your hands of, despite signing the agreement to do so...
Your belief that we will not be the last country to leave the EU may be right, a few years ago you may well have said the same of Portugal as you are now saying of Greece. Things are going pretty well here now after a few years of austerity, it's not perfect, but as one of the former "PIG" economies, along with the "I" of that acronym, we/they are not heading out of the EU anytime soon. If Ireland and Portugal can recover (to a certain extent) there's only one thing holding Greece back from at least trying - that's Greece having the same half arsed attitude to the EU as half the people in the UK do...
Leaving the Euro/EU wont cancel Greece's debts, and I think maybe one could argue (I'm no economist, so I am happy to be shot down in flames by those that understand these things better than me) that a Greece-free Euro would actually be a stronger currency? Just a thought?
Algarve, with the greatest respect, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for the people living in the UK.
The vote was not about what was best for people who used to live in the UK, but have now chosen to live in the Algarve, Prague, Madrid or anywhere else in Europe.
Quite frankly, there should never have been a referendum and I'm sick to death of it all. When a conclusion is reached the 2 alternatives should be put to a public vote.
1 Remain 2 Take the deal offered or a no deal scenario, if that is the only alternative to remaining.
Then we shall be voting on a specific choice and should proceed accordingly.
I am entitled to have the hump that a decision based on exaggeration, lies and stupidity (in some cases) has cost me personally. I don't stop being affected by decisions made by the UK because I don't live there.
Anyway, in fact, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for non-foreign people living in the UK...
Personally, I believe moving abroad is higher risk than remaining in the UK.
I've known a number of people that have moved or retired abroad and I have to say I'll never be "brave" enough to do so.
Added to this is that I have no desire to do so.
If you take higher risk decisions then I'm afraid you have to live with the consequences.
Once again, I say this with the greatest respect.
Taking no offence whatsoever here CE, don't worry.
It was not a higher risk, the decision of 37% of the British public has made it a higher risk, a lot of them have made that decision for spurious reasons - see umpteen posts above.
Of course it was a high risk move, how can moving abroad not be?
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
This is what I have said all along too John, and it was the basis of my comment to Blackpool about his grasp on reality. And indeed his other little helpers as it turns out.
The EU are not leaving Britain, Britain is leaving the EU. How is that so difficult for some people to understand?
All the points that Blackpool came up with have been dissected and rubbished before, and Nornirish has taken the time and trouble to do it again and explain why on every point he is wrong, I am wiling to bet that Blackpool still wont grasp it.
And no doubt in five or six pages time one of them will repeat the same old bullshit again. What is the point in coming up with responses to the nonsense when it is ignored? I can't be bothered to keep repeating the same answers over and over to people with their eyes shut and their fingers in theirs ears, so I choose to sum up the actual reality in one sentence.
Firstly there is no need to be rude. I have not been rude to you. Secondly there is nothing wrong with my grasp of reality. We see things differently and that is the purpose of there threads so that we can exchange views. As I have stated before I do not believe that we will be the last country to leave the EU in fact I believe in 10 or 15 years time when it becomes obvious that certain countries are doing far better than others that the whole thing will collapse. Greece for example will never be able to repay their debts to the EU and can only ever start to recover by leaving and coming out of the Euro. When and this is only my opinion of course that it does happen we will be well clear of the chaos that will follow
It's very hard not to be rude when someone else's ill thought out decision has already had a detrimental impact on me personally, and may have an even worse impact in the months to come. However, apologies Blackpool, you are right, I shouldn't be rude - I am sure you are a thoroughly pleasant chap in all other matters.
Going back to the original post that got my feathers so ruffled, as I stated, all the things you say have been knocked back in the past, and now, once again, quite succinctly by Nornirish. So I hope that you can at least understand the frustration of seeing the same opinions being rehashed over and over, then the facts that show the erroneous nature of those opinions being ignored over and over? The bowls club analogy is a good one, the thing that was missing was the commitment you had made to help finance the purchase of more land, that you now want to wash your hands of, despite signing the agreement to do so...
Your belief that we will not be the last country to leave the EU may be right, a few years ago you may well have said the same of Portugal as you are now saying of Greece. Things are going pretty well here now after a few years of austerity, it's not perfect, but as one of the former "PIG" economies, along with the "I" of that acronym, we/they are not heading out of the EU anytime soon. If Ireland and Portugal can recover (to a certain extent) there's only one thing holding Greece back from at least trying - that's Greece having the same half arsed attitude to the EU as half the people in the UK do...
Leaving the Euro/EU wont cancel Greece's debts, and I think maybe one could argue (I'm no economist, so I am happy to be shot down in flames by those that understand these things better than me) that a Greece-free Euro would actually be a stronger currency? Just a thought?
Algarve, with the greatest respect, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for the people living in the UK.
The vote was not about what was best for people who used to live in the UK, but have now chosen to live in the Algarve, Prague, Madrid or anywhere else in Europe.
Quite frankly, there should never have been a referendum and I'm sick to death of it all. When a conclusion is reached the 2 alternatives should be put to a public vote.
1 Remain 2 Take the deal offered or a no deal scenario, if that is the only alternative to remaining.
Then we shall be voting on a specific choice and should proceed accordingly.
I am entitled to have the hump that a decision based on exaggeration, lies and stupidity (in some cases) has cost me personally. I don't stop being affected by decisions made by the UK because I don't live there.
Anyway, in fact, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for non-foreign people living in the UK...
Personally, I believe moving abroad is higher risk than remaining in the UK.
I've known a number of people that have moved or retired abroad and I have to say I'll never be "brave" enough to do so.
Added to this is that I have no desire to do so.
If you take higher risk decisions then I'm afraid you have to live with the consequences.
Once again, I say this with the greatest respect.
Taking no offence whatsoever here CE, don't worry.
It was not a higher risk, the decision of 37% of the British public has made it a higher risk, a lot of them have made that decision for spurious reasons - see umpteen posts above.
I'm presuming your situation is higher risk than mine. Tbh, whatever the outcome, I'll probably not be unduly affected.
What is your current scenario and worst case scenario ?
What is your unique scenario that makes you immune to the UK crashing out of the EU with a no deal?
You lose regular contact with friends, family, loved ones. Have to learn new way of life by way of how things operate, you dont know if you will be accepted by the locals. Particularly if you move for work reasons. But you should just get on with it.
sorry folks that should read. I posted last year about my insider at the top of this government. He said at the time "This country will be fucked without an agreement with the E.U". Mrs May is attempting to limit the damage that Brexit will inflict on this country.
You lose regular contact with friends, family, loved ones. Have to learn new way of life by way of how things operate, you dont know if you will be accepted by the locals. Particularly if you move for work reasons. But you should just get on with it.
Plus having to learn a new language, adapting to a new culture and adjusting to a new diet.
I originally came to China for a year, to do some traveling, luckily for me I fell in love with a beautiful country full of fantastic people, I'm not sure I could ever move back to the UK now, but I know plenty of people that hated it and returned home, having wasted A LOT of money.
The UK also has a far more stable economy than many other countries. People often see foreigners as an easy target for scams, especially in the business world.
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
This is what I have said all along too John, and it was the basis of my comment to Blackpool about his grasp on reality. And indeed his other little helpers as it turns out.
The EU are not leaving Britain, Britain is leaving the EU. How is that so difficult for some people to understand?
All the points that Blackpool came up with have been dissected and rubbished before, and Nornirish has taken the time and trouble to do it again and explain why on every point he is wrong, I am wiling to bet that Blackpool still wont grasp it.
And no doubt in five or six pages time one of them will repeat the same old bullshit again. What is the point in coming up with responses to the nonsense when it is ignored? I can't be bothered to keep repeating the same answers over and over to people with their eyes shut and their fingers in theirs ears, so I choose to sum up the actual reality in one sentence.
Firstly there is no need to be rude. I have not been rude to you. Secondly there is nothing wrong with my grasp of reality. We see things differently and that is the purpose of there threads so that we can exchange views. As I have stated before I do not believe that we will be the last country to leave the EU in fact I believe in 10 or 15 years time when it becomes obvious that certain countries are doing far better than others that the whole thing will collapse. Greece for example will never be able to repay their debts to the EU and can only ever start to recover by leaving and coming out of the Euro. When and this is only my opinion of course that it does happen we will be well clear of the chaos that will follow
It's very hard not to be rude when someone else's ill thought out decision has already had a detrimental impact on me personally, and may have an even worse impact in the months to come. However, apologies Blackpool, you are right, I shouldn't be rude - I am sure you are a thoroughly pleasant chap in all other matters.
Going back to the original post that got my feathers so ruffled, as I stated, all the things you say have been knocked back in the past, and now, once again, quite succinctly by Nornirish. So I hope that you can at least understand the frustration of seeing the same opinions being rehashed over and over, then the facts that show the erroneous nature of those opinions being ignored over and over? The bowls club analogy is a good one, the thing that was missing was the commitment you had made to help finance the purchase of more land, that you now want to wash your hands of, despite signing the agreement to do so...
Your belief that we will not be the last country to leave the EU may be right, a few years ago you may well have said the same of Portugal as you are now saying of Greece. Things are going pretty well here now after a few years of austerity, it's not perfect, but as one of the former "PIG" economies, along with the "I" of that acronym, we/they are not heading out of the EU anytime soon. If Ireland and Portugal can recover (to a certain extent) there's only one thing holding Greece back from at least trying - that's Greece having the same half arsed attitude to the EU as half the people in the UK do...
Leaving the Euro/EU wont cancel Greece's debts, and I think maybe one could argue (I'm no economist, so I am happy to be shot down in flames by those that understand these things better than me) that a Greece-free Euro would actually be a stronger currency? Just a thought?
Algarve, with the greatest respect, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for the people living in the UK.
The vote was not about what was best for people who used to live in the UK, but have now chosen to live in the Algarve, Prague, Madrid or anywhere else in Europe.
Quite frankly, there should never have been a referendum and I'm sick to death of it all. When a conclusion is reached the 2 alternatives should be put to a public vote.
1 Remain 2 Take the deal offered or a no deal scenario, if that is the only alternative to remaining.
Then we shall be voting on a specific choice and should proceed accordingly.
I am entitled to have the hump that a decision based on exaggeration, lies and stupidity (in some cases) has cost me personally. I don't stop being affected by decisions made by the UK because I don't live there.
Anyway, in fact, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for non-foreign people living in the UK...
Personally, I believe moving abroad is higher risk than remaining in the UK.
I've known a number of people that have moved or retired abroad and I have to say I'll never be "brave" enough to do so.
Added to this is that I have no desire to do so.
If you take higher risk decisions then I'm afraid you have to live with the consequences.
Once again, I say this with the greatest respect.
Taking no offence whatsoever here CE, don't worry.
It was not a higher risk, the decision of 37% of the British public has made it a higher risk, a lot of them have made that decision for spurious reasons - see umpteen posts above.
I'm presuming your situation is higher risk than mine. Tbh, whatever the outcome, I'll probably not be unduly affected.
What is your current scenario and worst case scenario ?
What is your unique scenario that makes you immune to the UK crashing out of the EU with a no deal?
I didn't say immune. I said not unduly affected. Retired with guaranteed pensions, savings and own my house with no mortgage. So personally, not unduly affected.
Break the whole Bexit debacle to its very basics. Your a member of a bowls/snooker club and you don't like the rules, you don't like the subscriptions and you think you be better off playing for another club. BUT - you'd still like to play against the people of your choosing, on the days you want to play. You don't want to abide by the rules or pay the subscriptions. When they reject your generous proposals you accuse them of being disrespectful. Unbelievable.
This is what I have said all along too John, and it was the basis of my comment to Blackpool about his grasp on reality. And indeed his other little helpers as it turns out.
The EU are not leaving Britain, Britain is leaving the EU. How is that so difficult for some people to understand?
All the points that Blackpool came up with have been dissected and rubbished before, and Nornirish has taken the time and trouble to do it again and explain why on every point he is wrong, I am wiling to bet that Blackpool still wont grasp it.
And no doubt in five or six pages time one of them will repeat the same old bullshit again. What is the point in coming up with responses to the nonsense when it is ignored? I can't be bothered to keep repeating the same answers over and over to people with their eyes shut and their fingers in theirs ears, so I choose to sum up the actual reality in one sentence.
Firstly there is no need to be rude. I have not been rude to you. Secondly there is nothing wrong with my grasp of reality. We see things differently and that is the purpose of there threads so that we can exchange views. As I have stated before I do not believe that we will be the last country to leave the EU in fact I believe in 10 or 15 years time when it becomes obvious that certain countries are doing far better than others that the whole thing will collapse. Greece for example will never be able to repay their debts to the EU and can only ever start to recover by leaving and coming out of the Euro. When and this is only my opinion of course that it does happen we will be well clear of the chaos that will follow
It's very hard not to be rude when someone else's ill thought out decision has already had a detrimental impact on me personally, and may have an even worse impact in the months to come. However, apologies Blackpool, you are right, I shouldn't be rude - I am sure you are a thoroughly pleasant chap in all other matters.
Going back to the original post that got my feathers so ruffled, as I stated, all the things you say have been knocked back in the past, and now, once again, quite succinctly by Nornirish. So I hope that you can at least understand the frustration of seeing the same opinions being rehashed over and over, then the facts that show the erroneous nature of those opinions being ignored over and over? The bowls club analogy is a good one, the thing that was missing was the commitment you had made to help finance the purchase of more land, that you now want to wash your hands of, despite signing the agreement to do so...
Your belief that we will not be the last country to leave the EU may be right, a few years ago you may well have said the same of Portugal as you are now saying of Greece. Things are going pretty well here now after a few years of austerity, it's not perfect, but as one of the former "PIG" economies, along with the "I" of that acronym, we/they are not heading out of the EU anytime soon. If Ireland and Portugal can recover (to a certain extent) there's only one thing holding Greece back from at least trying - that's Greece having the same half arsed attitude to the EU as half the people in the UK do...
Leaving the Euro/EU wont cancel Greece's debts, and I think maybe one could argue (I'm no economist, so I am happy to be shot down in flames by those that understand these things better than me) that a Greece-free Euro would actually be a stronger currency? Just a thought?
Algarve, with the greatest respect, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for the people living in the UK.
The vote was not about what was best for people who used to live in the UK, but have now chosen to live in the Algarve, Prague, Madrid or anywhere else in Europe.
Quite frankly, there should never have been a referendum and I'm sick to death of it all. When a conclusion is reached the 2 alternatives should be put to a public vote.
1 Remain 2 Take the deal offered or a no deal scenario, if that is the only alternative to remaining.
Then we shall be voting on a specific choice and should proceed accordingly.
Agree with your post overall, but the problem with having another vote is that, the UK would now more than likely vote to remain imo. This would be because of the monumental, fur lined, ocean going fuck up the whole negotiation process has become.
All this has proven one thing though imo, and that is that the EU is basically an international protection racket, that you must be a part of or you face the consequences, purely because of your Country's geographical location
Once again I would like to gently remind you and others that people who make their home in other EU countries have probably not "left" the UK in the sense that people who emigrated to Oz, the US or China have. Once again in my case:
1. I am, and intend to remain, a UK citizen 2. I pay as much UK income tax as many Lifers on this thread. I should have a say in how that's spent, no? 3. I have fully paid up my NI contribs, so ought to have a say on the State pension front, no? 4. I have family back in Eltham as you know 5. Because they are of modest means, I help my sister with the Uni fees for her kids. So obviously I have strong views on Unis and further educations too, as a result. A voting issue. 6. I came face to face with the elderly care crisis, and shared my experience with you. Again a crucial issue for the ballot box, no. And who knows where I myself might want to spend my final days. 7. I have a football club in London which consumes far too much of my life, still 5-6 games a year in person. 8. I hope you would agree that I am fully engaged with the UK political scene as much as any Lifer on this thread, so however I vote, its as well informed a vote as most people who are UK resident. 9 You might also agree that I am an "active" citizen, the Olympic Stadium thing being an example. How many Lifers are on regular speaking terms with a GLA Mayoral candidate and other AMs?
Now you may say, oh, that's just you, Prague, you are a bit odd. And certainly the last bit I have to concede :-). But there are many many British people with a similar list to mine currently in the EU. You may find that difficult to believe because as you say, it's not something you personally would conceive of doing. Which is also OK. But IMO the island mentality is the reason why many Brits think people like me are "emigrants," or more sadly "traitors". Here on the continent a much higher % of people have a similar life, especially Benelux and Scandis.
Let me put it a different way to you. As you know, a significant number of English people have moved north to Scotland, because they agreed with the political direction of Scotland, and don't mind the weather :-). Depending on wind direction, a flight from Prague can reach London in the same or less time than a flight from Aberdeen, and for much the same fare.
So...what you would you say to me in this context, if Aberdeen rather than Prague is where I had "emigrated" to?
Comments
The EU are not leaving Britain, Britain is leaving the EU. How is that so difficult for some people to understand?
All the points that Blackpool came up with have been dissected and rubbished before, and Nornirish has taken the time and trouble to do it again and explain why on every point he is wrong, I am wiling to bet that Blackpool still wont grasp it.
And no doubt in five or six pages time one of them will repeat the same old bullshit again. What is the point in coming up with responses to the nonsense when it is ignored? I can't be bothered to keep repeating the same answers over and over to people with their eyes shut and their fingers in theirs ears, so I choose to sum up the actual reality in one sentence.
This really is a dark time for UK politics, what a mess. If the Tory's had a proper opposition we'd be in a much better state.
Boris, Corbyn, Grayling, Gove, Raab, Davies and loads more, how are they still involved in politics?
The lot of them have failed, I can't think of a way I could fuck up everything so bad and still have my job.
John McDonnell today saying that if they won a snap election, they'd carry on with Brexit but get a better deal. How? Why not put your plan out there now and see how the EU react?
The EU have their Red line, we have ours and they're miles apart.
The 40 billion won't last long if we don't get a deal sorted.
May isn't one of them. She is not really a European, she does not understand the mindset of the politicians and peoples of those countries because she has never been that interested in them. Last week's car crash would not have befallen a One Nation Tory because they understand them much better than May does.
But then some people (not just on here), come to the opposite conclusion, that a "true" Brexiteer should have led the talks. They hardly seem to notice that this implies one of the following should be Prime Minister. Leader of the people of the UK:
Boris Johnson
Michael Gove
Andrea fucking Leadsom
or "best" of all, Jacob Rees-Mogg.
and with that thought I wish us all a nice weekend
He is married to my niece and we do meet at family gatherings but we move in totally different circles.
He's actually a Newcastle united supporter and came with me the last time they played at the valley.
I have not been rude to you.
Secondly there is nothing wrong with my grasp of reality.
We see things differently and that is the purpose of there threads so that we can exchange views.
As I have stated before I do not believe that we will be the last country to leave the EU in fact I believe in 10 or 15 years time when it becomes obvious that certain countries are doing far better than others that the whole thing will collapse.
Greece for example will never be able to repay their debts to the EU and can only ever start to recover by leaving and coming out of the Euro.
When and this is only my opinion of course that it does happen we will be well clear of the chaos that will follow
After 2 years of car crash developments there is still no sign that either main Party will adopt a Remain position. As a Leaver I think this is to be regretted as it means there can be no easy way of resolving the impasse. A Gove led ( and I think he did a great deal of good to our education system, by the way) Tory Party versus an Umumma Labour Party would offer us a clear choice.
Going back to the original post that got my feathers so ruffled, as I stated, all the things you say have been knocked back in the past, and now, once again, quite succinctly by Nornirish. So I hope that you can at least understand the frustration of seeing the same opinions being rehashed over and over, then the facts that show the erroneous nature of those opinions being ignored over and over? The bowls club analogy is a good one, the thing that was missing was the commitment you had made to help finance the purchase of more land, that you now want to wash your hands of, despite signing the agreement to do so...
Your belief that we will not be the last country to leave the EU may be right, a few years ago you may well have said the same of Portugal as you are now saying of Greece. Things are going pretty well here now after a few years of austerity, it's not perfect, but as one of the former "PIG" economies, along with the "I" of that acronym, we/they are not heading out of the EU anytime soon. If Ireland and Portugal can recover (to a certain extent) there's only one thing holding Greece back from at least trying - that's Greece having the same half arsed attitude to the EU as half the people in the UK do...
Leaving the Euro/EU wont cancel Greece's debts, and I think maybe one could argue (I'm no economist, so I am happy to be shot down in flames by those that understand these things better than me) that a Greece-free Euro would actually be a stronger currency? Just a thought?
Just a point, you can like Europeans, their diverse cultures and wish to engage in cooperation with our neighbours but not like the direction of the EU or it's bureaucrats and therefore vote for Brexit without it being contradictory. Some 'swivel eyed' remainers simply can't get their heads around this fact.
We shall have to agree to disagree as to the future of the EU.
Have a good day.
The vote was not about what was best for people who used to live in the UK, but have now chosen to live in the Algarve, Prague, Madrid or anywhere else in Europe.
Quite frankly, there should never have been a referendum and I'm sick to death of it all.
When a conclusion is reached the 2 alternatives should be put to a public vote.
1 Remain
2 Take the deal offered or a no deal scenario, if that is the only alternative to remaining.
Then we shall be voting on a specific choice and should proceed accordingly.
I don't expect an easy ride from the eu and they won't be sending over backwards.
Even if the eu wanted to give us a bit more of an easy ride they can't as a few other eu countries would want to do the off.
Although I agree with Blackpool s yesterday I can't see the UK telling the eu were going on our own
Anyway, in fact, the people of the UK voted rightly or wrongly, for what they thought was best for non-foreign people living in the UK...
I've known a number of people that have moved or retired abroad and I have to say I'll never be "brave" enough to do so.
Added to this is that I have no desire to do so.
If you take higher risk decisions then I'm afraid you have to live with the consequences.
Once again, I say this with the greatest respect.
It was not a higher risk, the decision of 37% of the British public has made it a higher risk, a lot of them have made that decision for spurious reasons - see umpteen posts above.
Tbh, whatever the outcome, I'll probably not be unduly affected.
What is your current scenario and worst case scenario ?
I originally came to China for a year, to do some traveling, luckily for me I fell in love with a beautiful country full of fantastic people, I'm not sure I could ever move back to the UK now, but I know plenty of people that hated it and returned home, having wasted A LOT of money.
The UK also has a far more stable economy than many other countries. People often see foreigners as an easy target for scams, especially in the business world.
Retired with guaranteed pensions, savings and own my house with no mortgage.
So personally, not unduly affected.
All this has proven one thing though imo, and that is that the EU is basically an international protection racket, that you must be a part of or you face the consequences, purely because of your Country's geographical location
.
Once again I would like to gently remind you and others that people who make their home in other EU countries have probably not "left" the UK in the sense that people who emigrated to Oz, the US or China have. Once again in my case:
1. I am, and intend to remain, a UK citizen
2. I pay as much UK income tax as many Lifers on this thread. I should have a say in how that's spent, no?
3. I have fully paid up my NI contribs, so ought to have a say on the State pension front, no?
4. I have family back in Eltham as you know
5. Because they are of modest means, I help my sister with the Uni fees for her kids. So obviously I have strong views on Unis and further educations too, as a result. A voting issue.
6. I came face to face with the elderly care crisis, and shared my experience with you. Again a crucial issue for the ballot box, no. And who knows where I myself might want to spend my final days.
7. I have a football club in London which consumes far too much of my life, still 5-6 games a year in person.
8. I hope you would agree that I am fully engaged with the UK political scene as much as any Lifer on this thread, so however I vote, its as well informed a vote as most people who are UK resident.
9 You might also agree that I am an "active" citizen, the Olympic Stadium thing being an example. How many Lifers are on regular speaking terms with a GLA Mayoral candidate and other AMs?
Now you may say, oh, that's just you, Prague, you are a bit odd. And certainly the last bit I have to concede :-). But there are many many British people with a similar list to mine currently in the EU. You may find that difficult to believe because as you say, it's not something you personally would conceive of doing. Which is also OK. But IMO the island mentality is the reason why many Brits think people like me are "emigrants," or more sadly "traitors". Here on the continent a much higher % of people have a similar life, especially Benelux and Scandis.
Let me put it a different way to you. As you know, a significant number of English people have moved north to Scotland, because they agreed with the political direction of Scotland, and don't mind the weather :-). Depending on wind direction, a flight from Prague can reach London in the same or less time than a flight from Aberdeen, and for much the same fare.
So...what you would you say to me in this context, if Aberdeen rather than Prague is where I had "emigrated" to?