I don't believe a word anyone from the EU says. bunch of crooks - never signed off the accounts and let Greece into the single currency when their economy & GDP figs weren't at the acceptable level. The clincher is that they want closer ties & more economical unity, which is a recipe for disaster. We are an Island and haven't done bad in the past for it.
As an aside, I was watching a programme last week about social housing, the growth in the need for it & the lack of it. Its no surprise that we have a hundreds of housings of families living in B&B's (well. one B really, as there is no Breakfast) as we have had an influx of over 5 million people since 1997. The vast majority of those are on low paid jobs or zero hour contracts & so are unable to buy a house. Therefore they rent, and generally firstly from the local council.
A lot of the immigrants since 1997 have worked in the construction sector building houses
And forcing down wages for UK workers.
Err no unscrupulous employers cutting corners whilst the government sat on its hands forced wages down.
Err no. The influx of construction workers from Eastern Europe prepared to work for the sort of money a British worker paying his taxes and trying to pay a mortgage could never survive on.
That's the truth. Ask anyone who works in the construction industry.
Who's offering these cut price wages? Balfour Beatty? Carillion? Keepmoat?
I'm not saying wages haven't been cut but at the same time you have to blame the faceless corporations who are cutting them, not the people just trying to make a living. The only reason why people turn their fire on the employees and not the employers who actually set the wages is because that's what the Sun and Mail tell them to do.
Would you be OK if it was Welsh people increasing the labour market instead of Poles?
Listen, for every Eastern European who went to work for a big company, 10 either set their own firm up or, much more commonly, went to work for one of their countrymen. These were the guys quoting sums for jobs which were unsustainable if they were paying taxes or paying a mortgage. I'm sorry this doesn't match your view of the world but there we go. It's what happened and if you don't understand that I can only assume you have little, if any, knowledge of the construction industry.
I've broken a golden rule of mine by posting on a politics site. You can have the last word because I shan't be posting anymore on here.
Well said mate for the last 6 months I have been sorting out a mess carried out by bogus foreign craftsmen. Cost to the British taxpayer potential few million. One has fled the UK already others are likely to be impridone. ..the further we dig into it the deeper the hole has become. How it isn't natonal news I haven't the foggiest.
You are just so full of shit!
You what mate... Care to elaborate... Your the one who whined like a baby on the other thread when i had the audacity to defend myself... And that quote coming from you is rich. First time you have never posted a link.
You're always making boastful comments as if in your head you are some kind of Brexit Comic Book superhero selflessly riding to the rescue to save the UK from those nasty people from across the channel with all their non British values.....it is just getting a bit old.
I'm inclined to agree that the influx of cheap migrant labour has fucked over many in the construction industry. I will take those on here whose trade it is on their word, they know the day to day impact
But the influx of migrant labour has supported our NHS and services sector, which is the biggest part of our economy
It just goes to show how precarious all this is. I would love for all those who were adversely affected by migrant labour in construction to benefit from Brexit, but what of the 1000s of jobs migrants do that aren't looked upon favourably as careers for Britain's used to having their coffee served by someone from Europe
Of course, I forgot that 20 years ago the NHS was a desolate place with understaffed wards & empty beds.
Given that the problems associated with PFI/PPP were beginning to manifest themselves twenty years ago, you're not far wrong.
The NHS has always relied on immigrants, whether from Asia, Australasia, the West Indies or Ireland, a significant proportion of medical and support staff have been from outside the UK.
Freedom of movement within the EU has made it easier for NHS Trusts to recruit staff.
At a time when, to pluck one career out of the sky, nursing is seen to be a less attractive career option by young people in the UK (degree status being less worthwhile than many would have hoped), it seems counterintuitive to discourage such recruitment.
I don't believe a word anyone from the EU says. bunch of crooks - never signed off the accounts and let Greece into the single currency when their economy & GDP figs weren't at the acceptable level. The clincher is that they want closer ties & more economical unity, which is a recipe for disaster. We are an Island and haven't done bad in the past for it.
As an aside, I was watching a programme last week about social housing, the growth in the need for it & the lack of it
I don't believe a word anyone from the EU says. bunch of crooks - never signed off the accounts and let Greece into the single currency when their economy & GDP figs weren't at the acceptable level. The clincher is that they want closer ties & more economical unity, which is a recipe for disaster. We are an Island and haven't done bad in the past for it.
As an aside, I was watching a programme last week about social housing, the growth in the need for it & the lack of it. Its no surprise that we have a hundreds of housings of families living in B&B's (well. one B really, as there is no Breakfast) as we have had an influx of over 5 million people since 1997. The vast majority of those are on low paid jobs or zero hour contracts & so are unable to buy a house. Therefore they rent, and generally firstly from the local council.
A lot of the immigrants since 1997 have worked in the construction sector building houses
And forcing down wages for UK workers.
Err no unscrupulous employers cutting corners whilst the government sat on its hands forced wages down.
Err no. The influx of construction workers from Eastern Europe prepared to work for the sort of money a British worker paying his taxes and trying to pay a mortgage could never survive on.
That's the truth. Ask anyone who works in the construction industry.
Who's offering these cut price wages? Balfour Beatty? Carillion? Keepmoat?
I'm not saying wages haven't been cut but at the same time you have to blame the faceless corporations who are cutting them, not the people just trying to make a living. The only reason why people turn their fire on the employees and not the employers who actually set the wages is because that's what the Sun and Mail tell them to do.
Would you be OK if it was Welsh people increasing the labour market instead of Poles?
Listen, for every Eastern European who went to work for a big company, 10 either set their own firm up or, much more commonly, went to work for one of their countrymen. These were the guys quoting sums for jobs which were unsustainable if they were paying taxes or paying a mortgage. I'm sorry this doesn't match your view of the world but there we go. It's what happened and if you don't understand that I can only assume you have little, if any, knowledge of the construction industry.
I've broken a golden rule of mine by posting on a politics site. You can have the last word because I shan't be posting anymore on here.
Well said mate for the last 6 months I have been sorting out a mess carried out by bogus foreign craftsmen. Cost to the British taxpayer potential few million. One has fled the UK already others are likely to be impridone. ..the further we dig into it the deeper the hole has become. How it isn't natonal news I haven't the foggiest.
You are just so full of shit!
You what mate... Care to elaborate... Your the one who whined like a baby on the other thread when i had the audacity to defend myself... And that quote coming from you is rich. First time you have never posted a link.
You're always making boastful comments as if in your head you are some kind of Brexit Comic Book superhero selflessly riding to the rescue to save the UK from those nasty people from across the channel with all their non British values.....it is just getting a bit old.
My comments are not boastful, it is demonstrating to some of you whats happening in the real world. It's showing you there are people like me who are having to tidy up the mess of others. Never had to do it before.
I don't believe a word anyone from the EU says. bunch of crooks - never signed off the accounts and let Greece into the single currency when their economy & GDP figs weren't at the acceptable level. The clincher is that they want closer ties & more economical unity, which is a recipe for disaster. We are an Island and haven't done bad in the past for it.
As an aside, I was watching a programme last week about social housing, the growth in the need for it & the lack of it. Its no surprise that we have a hundreds of housings of families living in B&B's (well. one B really, as there is no Breakfast) as we have had an influx of over 5 million people since 1997. The vast majority of those are on low paid jobs or zero hour contracts & so are unable to buy a house. Therefore they rent, and generally firstly from the local council.
A lot of the immigrants since 1997 have worked in the construction sector building houses
And forcing down wages for UK workers.
Err no unscrupulous employers cutting corners whilst the government sat on its hands forced wages down.
Err no. The influx of construction workers from Eastern Europe prepared to work for the sort of money a British worker paying his taxes and trying to pay a mortgage could never survive on.
That's the truth. Ask anyone who works in the construction industry.
Who's offering these cut price wages? Balfour Beatty? Carillion? Keepmoat?
I'm not saying wages haven't been cut but at the same time you have to blame the faceless corporations who are cutting them, not the people just trying to make a living. The only reason why people turn their fire on the employees and not the employers who actually set the wages is because that's what the Sun and Mail tell them to do.
Would you be OK if it was Welsh people increasing the labour market instead of Poles?
Listen, for every Eastern European who went to work for a big company, 10 either set their own firm up or, much more commonly, went to work for one of their countrymen. These were the guys quoting sums for jobs which were unsustainable if they were paying taxes or paying a mortgage. I'm sorry this doesn't match your view of the world but there we go. It's what happened and if you don't understand that I can only assume you have little, if any, knowledge of the construction industry.
I've broken a golden rule of mine by posting on a politics site. You can have the last word because I shan't be posting anymore on here.
Well said mate for the last 6 months I have been sorting out a mess carried out by bogus foreign craftsmen. Cost to the British taxpayer potential few million. One has fled the UK already others are likely to be impridone. ..the further we dig into it the deeper the hole has become. How it isn't natonal news I haven't the foggiest.
You are just so full of shit!
You what mate... Care to elaborate... Your the one who whined like a baby on the other thread when i had the audacity to defend myself... And that quote coming from you is rich. First time you have never posted a link.
You're always making boastful comments as if in your head you are some kind of Brexit Comic Book superhero selflessly riding to the rescue to save the UK from those nasty people from across the channel with all their non British values.....it is just getting a bit old.
My comments are not boastful, it is demonstrating to some of you whats happening in the real world. It's showing you there are people like me who are having to tidy up the mess of others. Never had to do it before.
The 'mess' you talk about is trivial compared to the devastation of the economic nuclear bomb that Brexit campaigners, aided by dark Russian money, and Brexit voters have dropped on the UK. The negative impact will be felt for several generations.
I don't believe a word anyone from the EU says. bunch of crooks - never signed off the accounts and let Greece into the single currency when their economy & GDP figs weren't at the acceptable level. The clincher is that they want closer ties & more economical unity, which is a recipe for disaster. We are an Island and haven't done bad in the past for it.
As an aside, I was watching a programme last week about social housing, the growth in the need for it & the lack of it. Its no surprise that we have a hundreds of housings of families living in B&B's (well. one B really, as there is no Breakfast) as we have had an influx of over 5 million people since 1997. The vast majority of those are on low paid jobs or zero hour contracts & so are unable to buy a house. Therefore they rent, and generally firstly from the local council.
A lot of the immigrants since 1997 have worked in the construction sector building houses
And forcing down wages for UK workers.
Err no unscrupulous employers cutting corners whilst the government sat on its hands forced wages down.
Err no. The influx of construction workers from Eastern Europe prepared to work for the sort of money a British worker paying his taxes and trying to pay a mortgage could never survive on.
That's the truth. Ask anyone who works in the construction industry.
Who's offering these cut price wages? Balfour Beatty? Carillion? Keepmoat?
I'm not saying wages haven't been cut but at the same time you have to blame the faceless corporations who are cutting them, not the people just trying to make a living. The only reason why people turn their fire on the employees and not the employers who actually set the wages is because that's what the Sun and Mail tell them to do.
Would you be OK if it was Welsh people increasing the labour market instead of Poles?
Listen, for every Eastern European who went to work for a big company, 10 either set their own firm up or, much more commonly, went to work for one of their countrymen. These were the guys quoting sums for jobs which were unsustainable if they were paying taxes or paying a mortgage. I'm sorry this doesn't match your view of the world but there we go. It's what happened and if you don't understand that I can only assume you have little, if any, knowledge of the construction industry.
I've broken a golden rule of mine by posting on a politics site. You can have the last word because I shan't be posting anymore on here.
Well said mate for the last 6 months I have been sorting out a mess carried out by bogus foreign craftsmen. Cost to the British taxpayer potential few million. One has fled the UK already others are likely to be impridone. ..the further we dig into it the deeper the hole has become. How it isn't natonal news I haven't the foggiest.
You are just so full of shit!
You what mate... Care to elaborate... Your the one who whined like a baby on the other thread when i had the audacity to defend myself... And that quote coming from you is rich. First time you have never posted a link.
You're always making boastful comments as if in your head you are some kind of Brexit Comic Book superhero selflessly riding to the rescue to save the UK from those nasty people from across the channel with all their non British values.....it is just getting a bit old.
My comments are not boastful, it is demonstrating to some of you whats happening in the real world. It's showing you there are people like me who are having to tidy up the mess of others. Never had to do it before.
The 'mess' you talk about is trivial compared to the devastation of the economic nuclear bomb that Brexit campaigners, aided by dark Russian money, and Brexit voters have dropped on the UK. The negative impact will be felt for several generations.
The problem is it was firmly established well before the referendum that there was no economic case for Brexit and almost all Leave voters conceded that their reasons for voting to Leave were that the massive financial penalty we would face is worth it for superficial sovereignty and being able to kick out all the job-stealing Poles and Romanians (even though no party will actually do this).
"If a bloke knocked over your pint he would buy you another because your mates were with you" LOL
Like everyone is frightened of the EU due to all the mates together.
Russia breezes into Ukraine and the EU rucks about it. Nothing happens.
Mugabe has an EU travel ban but still visits for "medical issues".
North Korea brings the NHS to a halt with a hack
The Dunkirk days are over - modern warfare is about suicide bombers energy starvation and IT attacks.
Erm, you do realise the reference was made in the context of WTO trade disputes, and not things like warfare, or Russian or North Korean aggrandisement (and I thought Mugabe's medical treatment is mostly in Singapore).
Why is it every time May opens her mouth negotiations seem to take two steps back?
Funny, 'cos I heard it quite the opposite today. Merkel has said that the 27 will now talk (about having talks) & hopefully by December will be in a position to start discussing Trade. Obviously the "divorce bill" will have to be agreed first, but I'm sure the £60bn figure we eventually settle on will be ok'd.
Why is it every time May opens her mouth negotiations seem to take two steps back?
Funny, 'cos I heard it quite the opposite today. Merkel has said that the 27 will now talk (about having talks) & hopefully by December will be in a position to start discussing Trade. Obviously the "divorce bill" will have to be agreed first, but I'm sure the £60bn figure we eventually settle on will be ok'd.
If any pro - Brexiter wants to put a reasoned educated case for what "no-deal" looks like and why it will be "fine", it ought to be possible to debate that in an adult way.
Well that invitation went down well...
Based on how quickly every EU thread gets closed when we attempt to debate reasonably and then certain posters get enormously uptight and aggressive, I decided not to bother any more. But as you asked a genuine question, you should get a response.
Incidentally, I have never said that 'no-deal' will be fine, nor do I actually think it will go down that road. But let's play devil's advocate and assume it will.
No deal means we fall back on WTO rules due to the absence of a free trade deal with the EU (which, incidentally, will not do the EU any favours either). This brings into existence an average tariff of 2-3% - I know that some industries such as vehicles are higher but let's work with the average.
Other nations such as China, U.S., India etc, etc, deal regularly and extensively with the EU - without a free trade agreement and under WTO rules. We would do the same provided that tariffs are met and regulatory standards are upheld - which, as they are currently the same, would be the case.
In fact, the majority of UK trade is already under WTO rules - most of our exports go outside the EU. As I stated frequently on the original EU threads, our non-EU trade is increasing and our EU trade is decreasing. All our trade with the US is under WTO rules - and this is our biggest export market.
If any pro - Brexiter wants to put a reasoned educated case for what "no-deal" looks like and why it will be "fine", it ought to be possible to debate that in an adult way.
Well that invitation went down well...
Based on how quickly every EU thread gets closed when we attempt to debate reasonably and then certain posters get enormously uptight and aggressive, I decided not to bother any more. But as you asked a genuine question, you should get a response.
Incidentally, I have never said that 'no-deal' will be fine, nor do I actually think it will go down that road. But let's play devil's advocate and assume it will.
No deal means we fall back on WTO rules due to the absence of a free trade deal with the EU (which, incidentally, will not do the EU any favours either). This brings into existence an average tariff of 2-3% - I know that some industries such as vehicles are higher but let's work with the average.
Other nations such as China, U.S., India etc, etc, deal regularly and extensively with the EU - without a free trade agreement and under WTO rules. We would do the same provided that tariffs are met and regulatory standards are upheld - which, as they are currently the same, would be the case.
In fact, the majority of UK trade is already under WTO rules - most of our exports go outside the EU. As I stated frequently on the original EU threads, our non-EU trade is increasing and our EU trade is decreasing. All our trade with the US is under WTO rules - and this is our biggest export market.
While WTO membership will not be a problem, the schedules may prove difficult - a lot of countries outside the EU will seek to improve their trading position vis a vis the UK (and EU) when these are being negotiated.
The difficulty that arises is that tariffs are considerably higher than the average for foodstuffs (which makes up a significant proportion of the UK-EU trade). Reversion to WTO rules will have an almost immediate impact on the weekly shop - it's virtually inevitable there will be an interim period without trade deals because, as Frau Merkel has pointed out, they are more complex than Article 50 (IMHO, a 2 year transition period won't even come close).
If the UK, to reduce costs to consumers, were to seek to reduce tariffs unilaterally on foodstuffs, it cannot do so only for certain WTO members. All countries have to be treated equally. This "solution" would more than likely negatively impact UK agribusiness (to the extent of putting much of it out of business).
And, because WTO currently only has limited application for services, it is unlikely that no deal would be beneficial for that sector of the economy.
Why is it every time May opens her mouth negotiations seem to take two steps back?
The i newspaper headline this morning
Eu leaders agree to discuss free trade Stalemate broken. France and Germany stop blocking talks after May makes personal plea. PM agrees there will be no hard border with Ireland Residency deal close for EU citizens who live in Britain.
Why is it every time May opens her mouth negotiations seem to take two steps back?
The i newspaper headline this morning
Eu leaders agree to discuss free trade Stalemate broken. France and Germany stop blocking talks after May makes personal plea. PM agrees there will be no hard border with Ireland Residency deal close for EU citizens who live in Britain.
You missed off the bit about the EU asking for more clarity on the divorce bill oddly...
Yet when you read the article there's nothing really new in there at all. We were told they would start thinking about any future trade deal amongst themselves a while back. That's what any sensible organisation would do isn't it, sit around the table and agree a joint and realistic approach about what they want...before starting to negotiate.
They are throwing May a bone to try to spin it into something it's not to the hard Brexiteers in her party.
Mr Tusk told reporters in Brussels at the end of the summit: “After Prime Minister May’s intervention last night and our discussion about Brexit this morning, my impression is that the reports of the deadlock between the EU and the UK have been exaggerated and while progress is not sufficient it doesn’t mean there’s no progress at all.” Mr Barnier had used the term “deadlock” three times in a press conference at the conclusion of the last round of talks.
Comments
The NHS has always relied on immigrants, whether from Asia, Australasia, the West Indies or Ireland, a significant proportion of medical and support staff have been from outside the UK.
Freedom of movement within the EU has made it easier for NHS Trusts to recruit staff.
At a time when, to pluck one career out of the sky, nursing is seen to be a less attractive career option by young people in the UK (degree status being less worthwhile than many would have hoped), it seems counterintuitive to discourage such recruitment.
LOL
Like everyone is frightened of the EU due to all the mates together.
Russia breezes into Ukraine and the EU rucks about it. Nothing happens.
Mugabe has an EU travel ban but still visits for "medical issues".
North Korea brings the NHS to a halt with a hack
The Dunkirk days are over - modern warfare is about suicide bombers energy starvation and IT attacks.
Incidentally, I have never said that 'no-deal' will be fine, nor do I actually think it will go down that road. But let's play devil's advocate and assume it will.
No deal means we fall back on WTO rules due to the absence of a free trade deal with the EU (which, incidentally, will not do the EU any favours either). This brings into existence an average tariff of 2-3% - I know that some industries such as vehicles are higher but let's work with the average.
Other nations such as China, U.S., India etc, etc, deal regularly and extensively with the EU - without a free trade agreement and under WTO rules. We would do the same provided that tariffs are met and regulatory standards are upheld - which, as they are currently the same, would be the case.
In fact, the majority of UK trade is already under WTO rules - most of our exports go outside the EU. As I stated frequently on the original EU threads, our non-EU trade is increasing and our EU trade is decreasing. All our trade with the US is under WTO rules - and this is our biggest export market.
The difficulty that arises is that tariffs are considerably higher than the average for foodstuffs (which makes up a significant proportion of the UK-EU trade). Reversion to WTO rules will have an almost immediate impact on the weekly shop - it's virtually inevitable there will be an interim period without trade deals because, as Frau Merkel has pointed out, they are more complex than Article 50 (IMHO, a 2 year transition period won't even come close).
If the UK, to reduce costs to consumers, were to seek to reduce tariffs unilaterally on foodstuffs, it cannot do so only for certain WTO members. All countries have to be treated equally. This "solution" would more than likely negatively impact UK agribusiness (to the extent of putting much of it out of business).
And, because WTO currently only has limited application for services, it is unlikely that no deal would be beneficial for that sector of the economy.
I'm just a little ray of sunshine, me....
Eu leaders agree to discuss free trade
Stalemate broken. France and Germany stop blocking talks after May makes personal plea.
PM agrees there will be no hard border with Ireland
Residency deal close for EU citizens who live in Britain.
Yet when you read the article there's nothing really new in there at all. We were told they would start thinking about any future trade deal amongst themselves a while back. That's what any sensible organisation would do isn't it, sit around the table and agree a joint and realistic approach about what they want...before starting to negotiate.
They are throwing May a bone to try to spin it into something it's not to the hard Brexiteers in her party.
Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/brexit-trade-talks-can-begin-december/
I don't think Tusk and Barnier get on well ... both competing for European Presidency ?