The consequences of a no deal / walk away scenario would be catastrophic. An abrupt end to our membership would hit our business and economy like a ton of bricks. No one would know how to proceed in either import or export. WTO rules worked out and applied accross the board with hardly anyone knowing how. Documentation ? What tariffs apply and how to apply them. There are hundreds of cross Europe agreements and cooperations including funding that would suddenly cease. The list of disasters is endless. The ports would be gridlocked and we've already heard that flights to Europe might well be grounded. Reciprocity of healthcare instantly gone. I could go on and on.
Even this government recognise that in order to make things work there will need to be a period of two years or more of transition after March 2019. Can you just contemplate for a moment the chaos should the likes of Redwood, Tiger Johnson, Gove and Farage get their way.
Brexit in my opinion is going to be so bad for this island but to walk away without any ducks in a row would be suicidal.
Not forgetting all those fields full of cars in Germany and heaps of fruit and veg piled up in France/Spain.
Well quite. A crash out of the Union would be catastrophic for the 27 as well. It is worth remembering though that we must import that fruit and veg to feed the nation. We can't grow enough or get in place deals to compensate for a car crash import scenario. You can get by with your old banger for a few months longer while something is sorted out re cars but clogged up channel ports and no Lorries hitting our roads full of that fruit and veg is going to impact the UK much much quicker than it will the 27. That's not to say it won't. It's why this talk of walking away is utter madness.
Being the staunch remoaner that I am I have tried to get into the mind set of at least some of the ultra brexiteers - those whom you might say are not mere swivel-eyed.
If you have been watching Victoria on ITV you will know that the story has passed the Irish Potato famine and has just got us to the repeal of the Corn Laws as the start of major tariff reform which was forced through by Peel against his own Party who were primarily Tory landowners who supported protectionism.
Why mention this well because the cause of free trade was very powerful from 1840. It brought about as a consequence a realignment in British politics resulting in the formation of the Liberal Party made up of Peelites, Liberal Whigs and some Radicals. Gladstone himself was a Peelite.
The lesson of that period of our history was that unilateral tariff reduction/removal heralded 70 years of growth in which Britain was the powerhouse economy of the world.
The ultra Brexiteers see Brexit as our opportunity untramelled by EU collectiveness to do the same. Urged on by the Legatum Institute they want to cut import tariffs to zero on all imports, whether from the EU or the rest of the world. The arguement is that as we are a net importer goods, product in the shops will be cheaper and this will stimulate our economy and at rhe same time reengineer it. Industries like motor manufacture, indeed most manufacturing will cease. They argue that our economy will rebalance and like we no longer have any deep coal mines or virtually no steel making so industries reliant on protection by external tariffs will die. This is way some (not idiots like Grayling and Redwood) say that no deal is nothing to worry about. Indeed they actually do not want a deal with a FTA arrangement with the EU. They'd rather we were out and quickly.
Personally I believe that falling out with no deal will be catastrophic even if in some years (30 plus) in my view the economy does rebalance. We live in a far more interconnected world than in 1840s. We have been enmeshed in the EU for 40 years and crashing out cannot be done without immense damage.
I don't believe a word anyone from the EU says. bunch of crooks - never signed off the accounts and let Greece into the single currency when their economy & GDP figs weren't at the acceptable level. The clincher is that they want closer ties & more economical unity, which is a recipe for disaster. We are an Island and haven't done bad in the past for it.
As an aside, I was watching a programme last week about social housing, the growth in the need for it & the lack of it. Its no surprise that we have a hundreds of housings of families living in B&B's (well. one B really, as there is no Breakfast) as we have had an influx of over 5 million people since 1997. The vast majority of those are on low paid jobs or zero hour contracts & so are unable to buy a house. Therefore they rent, and generally firstly from the local council.
I don't believe a word anyone from the EU says. bunch of crooks - never signed off the accounts and let Greece into the single currency when their economy & GDP figs weren't at the acceptable level. The clincher is that they want closer ties & more economical unity, which is a recipe for disaster. We are an Island and haven't done bad in the past for it.
As an aside, I was watching a programme last week about social housing, the growth in the need for it & the lack of it. Its no surprise that we have a hundreds of housings of families living in B&B's (well. one B really, as there is no Breakfast) as we have had an influx of over 5 million people since 1997. The vast majority of those are on low paid jobs or zero hour contracts & so are unable to buy a house. Therefore they rent, and generally firstly from the local council.
A lot of the immigrants since 1997 have worked in the construction sector building houses
I don't believe a word anyone from the EU says. bunch of crooks - never signed off the accounts and let Greece into the single currency when their economy & GDP figs weren't at the acceptable level. The clincher is that they want closer ties & more economical unity, which is a recipe for disaster. We are an Island and haven't done bad in the past for it.
As an aside, I was watching a programme last week about social housing, the growth in the need for it & the lack of it. Its no surprise that we have a hundreds of housings of families living in B&B's (well. one B really, as there is no Breakfast) as we have had an influx of over 5 million people since 1997. The vast majority of those are on low paid jobs or zero hour contracts & so are unable to buy a house. Therefore they rent, and generally firstly from the local council.
A lot of the immigrants since 1997 have worked in the construction sector building houses
Far left/far right is a worrying trend but I feel that any party too far to one side has shelf life. They're very good at preying on fear etc, but would struggle to get anything through in a practical sense in most democratic countries
I would still vote remain now if asked again. But these hypotheticals are irrelevant now. We need to get on with it and ultimately my preference is to get on with no deal. Reason being, we're not going to negotiate a deal that is satisfactory to the many different stances both here and in the EU, let's not kid ourselves
Unfortunately we just need to do it and pick up the pieces - we've led ourselves here and now we have to do it
If any pro - Brexiter wants to put a reasoned educated case for what "no-deal" looks like and why it will be "fine", it ought to be possible to debate that in an adult way.
I don't believe a word anyone from the EU says. bunch of crooks - never signed off the accounts and let Greece into the single currency when their economy & GDP figs weren't at the acceptable level. The clincher is that they want closer ties & more economical unity, which is a recipe for disaster. We are an Island and haven't done bad in the past for it.
As an aside, I was watching a programme last week about social housing, the growth in the need for it & the lack of it. Its no surprise that we have a hundreds of housings of families living in B&B's (well. one B really, as there is no Breakfast) as we have had an influx of over 5 million people since 1997. The vast majority of those are on low paid jobs or zero hour contracts & so are unable to buy a house. Therefore they rent, and generally firstly from the local council.
A lot of the immigrants since 1997 have worked in the construction sector building houses
And forcing down wages for UK workers.
Err no unscrupulous employers cutting corners whilst the government sat on its hands forced wages down.
I don't believe a word anyone from the EU says. bunch of crooks - never signed off the accounts and let Greece into the single currency when their economy & GDP figs weren't at the acceptable level. The clincher is that they want closer ties & more economical unity, which is a recipe for disaster. We are an Island and haven't done bad in the past for it.
As an aside, I was watching a programme last week about social housing, the growth in the need for it & the lack of it. Its no surprise that we have a hundreds of housings of families living in B&B's (well. one B really, as there is no Breakfast) as we have had an influx of over 5 million people since 1997. The vast majority of those are on low paid jobs or zero hour contracts & so are unable to buy a house. Therefore they rent, and generally firstly from the local council.
A lot of the immigrants since 1997 have worked in the construction sector building houses
And forcing down wages for UK workers.
Err no unscrupulous employers cutting corners whilst the government sat on its hands forced wages down.
Err no. The influx of construction workers from Eastern Europe prepared to work for the sort of money a British worker paying his taxes and trying to pay a mortgage could never survive on.
That's the truth. Ask anyone who works in the construction industry.
I don't believe a word anyone from the EU says. bunch of crooks - never signed off the accounts and let Greece into the single currency when their economy & GDP figs weren't at the acceptable level. The clincher is that they want closer ties & more economical unity, which is a recipe for disaster. We are an Island and haven't done bad in the past for it.
As an aside, I was watching a programme last week about social housing, the growth in the need for it & the lack of it. Its no surprise that we have a hundreds of housings of families living in B&B's (well. one B really, as there is no Breakfast) as we have had an influx of over 5 million people since 1997. The vast majority of those are on low paid jobs or zero hour contracts & so are unable to buy a house. Therefore they rent, and generally firstly from the local council.
A lot of the immigrants since 1997 have worked in the construction sector building houses
And forcing down wages for UK workers.
Err no unscrupulous employers cutting corners whilst the government sat on its hands forced wages down.
Err no. The influx of construction workers from Eastern Europe prepared to work for the sort of money a British worker paying his taxes and trying to pay a mortgage could never survive on.
That's the truth. Ask anyone who works in the construction industry.
Who's offering these cut price wages? Balfour Beatty? Carillion? Keepmoat?
I'm not saying wages haven't been cut but at the same time you have to blame the faceless corporations who are cutting them, not the people just trying to make a living. The only reason why people turn their fire on the employees and not the employers who actually set the wages is because that's what the Sun and Mail tell them to do.
Would you be OK if it was Welsh people increasing the labour market instead of Poles?
CEO of Goldman Sachs seems to publicly announce their post-Brexit plans.
Great. ..if he needs a lift to the airport he knows where to come...whilst I am in blackpool my Mrs is in jersey (yes jersey) SE9. Sorting out business that will be coming our way in the very meat distant future.
I don't believe a word anyone from the EU says. bunch of crooks - never signed off the accounts and let Greece into the single currency when their economy & GDP figs weren't at the acceptable level. The clincher is that they want closer ties & more economical unity, which is a recipe for disaster. We are an Island and haven't done bad in the past for it.
As an aside, I was watching a programme last week about social housing, the growth in the need for it & the lack of it. Its no surprise that we have a hundreds of housings of families living in B&B's (well. one B really, as there is no Breakfast) as we have had an influx of over 5 million people since 1997. The vast majority of those are on low paid jobs or zero hour contracts & so are unable to buy a house. Therefore they rent, and generally firstly from the local council.
A lot of the immigrants since 1997 have worked in the construction sector building houses
And forcing down wages for UK workers.
Err no unscrupulous employers cutting corners whilst the government sat on its hands forced wages down.
Err no. The influx of construction workers from Eastern Europe prepared to work for the sort of money a British worker paying his taxes and trying to pay a mortgage could never survive on.
That's the truth. Ask anyone who works in the construction industry.
Who's offering these cut price wages? Balfour Beatty? Carillion? Keepmoat?
I'm not saying wages haven't been cut but at the same time you have to blame the faceless corporations who are cutting them, not the people just trying to make a living. The only reason why people turn their fire on the employees and not the employers who actually set the wages is because that's what the Sun and Mail tell them to do.
Would you be OK if it was Welsh people increasing the labour market instead of Poles?
Listen, for every Eastern European who went to work for a big company, 10 either set their own firm up or, much more commonly, went to work for one of their countrymen. These were the guys quoting sums for jobs which were unsustainable if they were paying taxes or paying a mortgage. I'm sorry this doesn't match your view of the world but there we go. It's what happened and if you don't understand that I can only assume you have little, if any, knowledge of the construction industry.
I've broken a golden rule of mine by posting on a politics site. You can have the last word because I shan't be posting anymore on here.
I don't believe a word anyone from the EU says. bunch of crooks - never signed off the accounts and let Greece into the single currency when their economy & GDP figs weren't at the acceptable level. The clincher is that they want closer ties & more economical unity, which is a recipe for disaster. We are an Island and haven't done bad in the past for it.
As an aside, I was watching a programme last week about social housing, the growth in the need for it & the lack of it. Its no surprise that we have a hundreds of housings of families living in B&B's (well. one B really, as there is no Breakfast) as we have had an influx of over 5 million people since 1997. The vast majority of those are on low paid jobs or zero hour contracts & so are unable to buy a house. Therefore they rent, and generally firstly from the local council.
A lot of the immigrants since 1997 have worked in the construction sector building houses
And forcing down wages for UK workers.
Err no unscrupulous employers cutting corners whilst the government sat on its hands forced wages down.
Err no. The influx of construction workers from Eastern Europe prepared to work for the sort of money a British worker paying his taxes and trying to pay a mortgage could never survive on.
That's the truth. Ask anyone who works in the construction industry.
Who's offering these cut price wages? Balfour Beatty? Carillion? Keepmoat?
I'm not saying wages haven't been cut but at the same time you have to blame the faceless corporations who are cutting them, not the people just trying to make a living. The only reason why people turn their fire on the employees and not the employers who actually set the wages is because that's what the Sun and Mail tell them to do.
Would you be OK if it was Welsh people increasing the labour market instead of Poles?
Listen, for every Eastern European who went to work for a big company, 10 either set their own firm up or, much more commonly, went to work for one of their countrymen. These were the guys quoting sums for jobs which were unsustainable if they were paying taxes or paying a mortgage. I'm sorry this doesn't match your view of the world but there we go. It's what happened and if you don't understand that I can only assume you have little, if any, knowledge of the construction industry.
I've broken a golden rule of mine by posting on a politics site. You can have the last word because I shan't be posting anymore on here.
Well said mate for the last 6 months I have been sorting out a mess carried out by bogus foreign craftsmen. Cost to the British taxpayer potential few million. One has fled the UK already others are likely to be impridone. ..the further we dig into it the deeper the hole has become. How it isn't natonal news I haven't the foggiest.
I'm inclined to agree that the influx of cheap migrant labour has fucked over many in the construction industry. I will take those on here whose trade it is on their word, they know the day to day impact
But the influx of migrant labour has supported our NHS and services sector, which is the biggest part of our economy
It just goes to show how precarious all this is. I would love for all those who were adversely affected by migrant labour in construction to benefit from Brexit, but what of the 1000s of jobs migrants do that aren't looked upon favourably as careers for Britain's used to having their coffee served by someone from Europe
I don't believe a word anyone from the EU says. bunch of crooks - never signed off the accounts and let Greece into the single currency when their economy & GDP figs weren't at the acceptable level. The clincher is that they want closer ties & more economical unity, which is a recipe for disaster. We are an Island and haven't done bad in the past for it.
As an aside, I was watching a programme last week about social housing, the growth in the need for it & the lack of it. Its no surprise that we have a hundreds of housings of families living in B&B's (well. one B really, as there is no Breakfast) as we have had an influx of over 5 million people since 1997. The vast majority of those are on low paid jobs or zero hour contracts & so are unable to buy a house. Therefore they rent, and generally firstly from the local council.
A lot of the immigrants since 1997 have worked in the construction sector building houses
And forcing down wages for UK workers.
Err no unscrupulous employers cutting corners whilst the government sat on its hands forced wages down.
Err no. The influx of construction workers from Eastern Europe prepared to work for the sort of money a British worker paying his taxes and trying to pay a mortgage could never survive on.
That's the truth. Ask anyone who works in the construction industry.
Who's offering these cut price wages? Balfour Beatty? Carillion? Keepmoat?
I'm not saying wages haven't been cut but at the same time you have to blame the faceless corporations who are cutting them, not the people just trying to make a living. The only reason why people turn their fire on the employees and not the employers who actually set the wages is because that's what the Sun and Mail tell them to do.
Would you be OK if it was Welsh people increasing the labour market instead of Poles?
Listen, for every Eastern European who went to work for a big company, 10 either set their own firm up or, much more commonly, went to work for one of their countrymen. These were the guys quoting sums for jobs which were unsustainable if they were paying taxes or paying a mortgage. I'm sorry this doesn't match your view of the world but there we go. It's what happened and if you don't understand that I can only assume you have little, if any, knowledge of the construction industry.
I've broken a golden rule of mine by posting on a politics site. You can have the last word because I shan't be posting anymore on here.
Well said mate for the last 6 months I have been sorting out a mess carried out by bogus foreign craftsmen. Cost to the British taxpayer potential few million. One has fled the UK already others are likely to be impridone. ..the further we dig into it the deeper the hole has become. How it isn't natonal news I haven't the foggiest.
I'm inclined to agree that the influx of cheap migrant labour has fucked over many in the construction industry. I will take those on here whose trade it is on their word, they know the day to day impact
But the influx of migrant labour has supported our NHS and services sector, which is the biggest part of our economy
It just goes to show how precarious all this is. I would love for all those who were adversely affected by migrant labour in construction to benefit from Brexit, but what of the 1000s of jobs migrants do that aren't looked upon favourably as careers for Britain's used to having their coffee served by someone from Europe
Of course, I forgot that 20 years ago the NHS was a desolate place with understaffed wards & empty beds.
If you're a worker in the British labour market then as far as I'm concerned you're a UK worker. If you mean someone born to ethnically British parents then you want workers to be treated differently based on where their parents were born. Not sure I can ever agree with that.
I don't believe a word anyone from the EU says. bunch of crooks - never signed off the accounts and let Greece into the single currency when their economy & GDP figs weren't at the acceptable level. The clincher is that they want closer ties & more economical unity, which is a recipe for disaster. We are an Island and haven't done bad in the past for it.
As an aside, I was watching a programme last week about social housing, the growth in the need for it & the lack of it. Its no surprise that we have a hundreds of housings of families living in B&B's (well. one B really, as there is no Breakfast) as we have had an influx of over 5 million people since 1997. The vast majority of those are on low paid jobs or zero hour contracts & so are unable to buy a house. Therefore they rent, and generally firstly from the local council.
A lot of the immigrants since 1997 have worked in the construction sector building houses
And forcing down wages for UK workers.
Err no unscrupulous employers cutting corners whilst the government sat on its hands forced wages down.
Err no. The influx of construction workers from Eastern Europe prepared to work for the sort of money a British worker paying his taxes and trying to pay a mortgage could never survive on.
That's the truth. Ask anyone who works in the construction industry.
Who's offering these cut price wages? Balfour Beatty? Carillion? Keepmoat?
I'm not saying wages haven't been cut but at the same time you have to blame the faceless corporations who are cutting them, not the people just trying to make a living. The only reason why people turn their fire on the employees and not the employers who actually set the wages is because that's what the Sun and Mail tell them to do.
Would you be OK if it was Welsh people increasing the labour market instead of Poles?
Listen, for every Eastern European who went to work for a big company, 10 either set their own firm up or, much more commonly, went to work for one of their countrymen. These were the guys quoting sums for jobs which were unsustainable if they were paying taxes or paying a mortgage. I'm sorry this doesn't match your view of the world but there we go. It's what happened and if you don't understand that I can only assume you have little, if any, knowledge of the construction industry.
I've broken a golden rule of mine by posting on a politics site. You can have the last word because I shan't be posting anymore on here.
Well said mate for the last 6 months I have been sorting out a mess carried out by bogus foreign craftsmen. Cost to the British taxpayer potential few million. One has fled the UK already others are likely to be impridone. ..the further we dig into it the deeper the hole has become. How it isn't natonal news I haven't the foggiest.
You are just so full of shit!
You what mate... Care to elaborate... Your the one who whined like a baby on the other thread when i had the audacity to defend myself... And that quote coming from you is rich. First time you have never posted a link.
Comments
If you have been watching Victoria on ITV you will know that the story has passed the Irish Potato famine and has just got us to the repeal of the Corn Laws as the start of major tariff reform which was forced through by Peel against his own Party who were primarily Tory landowners who supported protectionism.
Why mention this well because the cause of free trade was very powerful from 1840. It brought about as a consequence a realignment in British politics resulting in the formation of the Liberal Party made up of Peelites, Liberal Whigs and some Radicals. Gladstone himself was a Peelite.
The lesson of that period of our history was that unilateral tariff reduction/removal heralded 70 years of growth in which Britain was the powerhouse economy of the world.
The ultra Brexiteers see Brexit as our opportunity untramelled by EU collectiveness to do the same. Urged on by the Legatum Institute they want to cut import tariffs to zero on all imports, whether from the EU or the rest of the world. The arguement is that as we are a net importer goods, product in the shops will be cheaper and this will stimulate our economy and at rhe same time reengineer it. Industries like motor manufacture, indeed most manufacturing will cease. They argue that our economy will rebalance and like we no longer have any deep coal mines or virtually no steel making so industries reliant on protection by external tariffs will die. This is way some (not idiots like Grayling and Redwood) say that no deal is nothing to worry about. Indeed they actually do not want a deal with a FTA arrangement with the EU. They'd rather we were out and quickly.
Personally I believe that falling out with no deal will be catastrophic even if in some years (30 plus) in my view the economy does rebalance. We live in a far more interconnected world than in 1840s. We have been enmeshed in the EU for 40 years and crashing out cannot be done without immense damage.
Vital to be in place at the point of exit.
Only good news to come from Brexit: I've never felt so young.
CEO of Goldman Sachs seems to publicly announce their post-Brexit plans.
Watch. Listen. Get it.
Facts, facts, facts from a foreigner.
Redwood, Grayling and Johnson have alternative facts.
As an aside, I was watching a programme last week about social housing, the growth in the need for it & the lack of it. Its no surprise that we have a hundreds of housings of families living in B&B's (well. one B really, as there is no Breakfast) as we have had an influx of over 5 million people since 1997. The vast majority of those are on low paid jobs or zero hour contracts & so are unable to buy a house. Therefore they rent, and generally firstly from the local council.
That's the truth. Ask anyone who works in the construction industry.
I'm not saying wages haven't been cut but at the same time you have to blame the faceless corporations who are cutting them, not the people just trying to make a living. The only reason why people turn their fire on the employees and not the employers who actually set the wages is because that's what the Sun and Mail tell them to do.
Would you be OK if it was Welsh people increasing the labour market instead of Poles?
I've broken a golden rule of mine by posting on a politics site. You can have the last word because I shan't be posting anymore on here.
But the influx of migrant labour has supported our NHS and services sector, which is the biggest part of our economy
It just goes to show how precarious all this is. I would love for all those who were adversely affected by migrant labour in construction to benefit from Brexit, but what of the 1000s of jobs migrants do that aren't looked upon favourably as careers for Britain's used to having their coffee served by someone from Europe
See ya.