I may be wrong but I get the impression Prague takes his right to vote very seriously and considers it carefully, an example a hell of a lot of British citizens would do well to follow. If he’s an example of the majority of expat voters, they’re ok by me.
People that are taken in by buses, buffoons and bigots are the voters I worry about.
That's kind of you. Yes I take it bloody seriously, learnt it at Poly and always looked to the region where I now live to remind myself of what happens when people don't have that right. It was the Valley Party's ad agency which fought the campaign to try to stop Thatcher abolishing the GLC. The poster had a big, somehwat sinister picture of Livingstone with the line "if you want me out, you should have the right to vote me out".
So I am both very angry and very sad that they try to stop me voting now with this rule.
I do think that there are relatively few like me. People who have emigrated to Oz or NZ, they have really gone. Unlike me they won't be waking up to the Today programme on Radio 4, and they will be reading The Australian, not The Guardian on their tablets. Me, with London City on the schedule I can get to the Valley quicker than an Addick living in Plymouth (and probably for similar money too). But staying so connected to my mother country was my choice, not all make it. So what is the big deal about people like me voting? How many of us are there? I am not sure it would top 100k. It isn't a perfect match but it seems a majority of people on here who don't want me to vote, happen not to agree with a lot of my political views.
I may be wrong but I get the impression Prague takes his right to vote very seriously and considers it carefully, an example a hell of a lot of British citizens would do well to follow. If he’s an example of the majority of expat voters, they’re ok by me.
People that are taken in by buses, buffoons and bigots are the voters I worry about.
That's kind of you. Yes I take it bloody seriously, learnt it at Poly and always looked to the region where I now live to remind myself of what happens when people don't have that right. It was the Valley Party's ad agency which fought the campaign to try to stop Thatcher abolishing the GLC. The poster had a big, somehwat sinister picture of Livingstone with the line "if you want me out, you should have the right to vote me out".
So I am both very angry and very sad that they try to stop me voting now with this rule.
I do think that there are relatively few like me. People who have emigrated to Oz or NZ, they have really gone. Unlike me they won't be waking up to the Today programme on Radio 4, and they will be reading The Australian, not The Guardian on their tablets. Me, with London City on the schedule I can get to the Valley quicker than an Addick living in Plymouth (and probably for similar money too). But staying so connected to my mother country was my choice, not all make it. So what is the big deal about people like me voting? How many of us are there? I am not sure it would top 100k. It isn't a perfect match but it seems a majority of people on here who don't want me to vote, happen not to agree with a lot of my political views.
Without wanting another argument, I think I pretty much agree with many of your political views. However, I also think that the 15 years is right in terms of being out the country and not being affected by the day to day life. I don't for a minute believe you are completely disconnected with the UK as you've explained it very clearly... My belief isn't personal against you... But how could it be set up so that you could vote but someone who say, lived in Prague for 24 years, didn't get Czech citizenship, is still a British citizen, has some business interests in the UK that pays tax there... But doesn't give a toss about the UK. Should they still be able to vote (in my example, sounds like they probably wouldn't anyway). Is my understanding that the line should be "are you a British citizen? Therefore you can vote"? Just curious really. Or should there be extra criteria in your view for keeping a vote?
You're right, I haven't thought too much about it!
So do you think that you can elect to be a citizen somewhere, wherever that is, and always get to vote there, if even you have never lived there, or have not lived there for decades? Seems wrong to me. I said earlier that the 15 years seems about right and I stick to that... seems generous enough. I didn't mean in the post you quoted that your vote follows you round the world.
I actually think the Pole should get to vote. English people in Scotland were allowed to vote in the independence referendum, but Scottish people resident in England weren't. That for me is fair enough. Why? It affects their life where they live.
Well, for most countries we might admire, such as Germany or Sweden, you have to pass strict citizenship laws. So you would have to live there for quite some years, speak the language to a certain level, wait for the green light to cross the road, etc.
I think that you might over-estimate how many people like me would exercise their eternal right to vote. I will check but I think my German/Swedish buddy doesnt vote in Germany because he feels he doesnt have a dog in the race there, whereas in Sweden he has lots; family, friends, some tax, property, regular visitor on both biz and personal, so the transport system is an issue. So he votes there. I think the majority of Brits who are away a long time just gradually get immersed in the new country, especially if it is outside Europe, such as Oz. But modern Europe has created a different kind of citizen, and actively so, one that doesn't think of borders in the same way. I guess I am one of them. Ironically also, I think if there is one single factor that has kept me closely emotionally bound to the UK, it is Charlton. And Charlton Life!
Sweden with it's population of just 10 million and a fluctuating tax rate of up to 61%?
With 25% of immigrants living in absolute poverty?
A country with just about the greatest inequality in the western world?
Where 47% in recent youGov survey put immigration as top concern?
Where new laws preventing family reunification in 2016 reduced immigration by 82% in one year?
Sweden is a strange choice for your desire - it's characteristics making it almost unique, but yet still facing the same problems that saw the rise of UKIP.
The waves of migrants have also stirred a public backlash, one that challenges the country's image and core values of tolerance and openness.
Police crackdowns on illegal immigration is much easier in a country of this size. Sweden has intensified its crackdown on illegal immigrants after a failed asylum-seeker killed five people in Stockholm, but the move has raised concerns that more migrants will be driven underground to join a shadowy underclass. The Migration Agency estimated 10,000 asylum-seekers a year will choose to disappear rather than be deported. Up to 50,000 undocumented immigrants already work in hotels, transport, construction and restaurants, the agency said last year. An extra 800 million crowns ($95 million) has been added to the police budget this year to bolster the clampdown, but senior officers say this is not enough. (Reuters)
The far-right anti-immigration political party Sweden Democrats has been steadily seeing increased public support, from 4% in 2010 to 21% in 2017 (Independent). In June one survey showed it now attracts the second-greatest amount of support from Swedes.
I am sure no one really wants this thread to divert into a discussion on the merits of Sweden, but just to take @Floyd Montana very first claim that it is almost the most unequal country in the world...you might have been surprised to read that. And you would be right to be so, because it is based on a very crude measurement by Forbes magazine, it would seem. Here is a more robust examination of the various studies on inequality
I would say that my Swedish buddy does worry about immigration but when we were in Malmö together recently he was banging on about how Rosengaard - Zlatans original home - was so tough and dangerous. When, thinking about Thamesmead, I expressed some skepticism he offered that we drive round it, so we did. It was a drab 70s council estate. All the roads were in perfect nick. There was no litter. The people looked no less prosperous than the shoppers in Eltham High Street. Admittedly the police station looked a bit scary. Big black square thing. In front of it was a bike rack. When I looked carefully I noted that all five bikes were unlocked......
Well done - pick one bit, mis-quote it and deny it by googling Guardian (incorrectly - my data came from the OECD), then ignore all the many other points raised.
Throw in a mate's anecdote and hey presto!
Classic Prague - only missing the troll accusation for anyone who counters any of your pontifications.
Strangely I was in Malmo too this Christmas with my great friend, a Swedish national, a qualified chemical engineer currently working as a truck driver and very concerned about immigration and the rise of the 'Sweden Democrats'.
And you probably saw this Guardian headline (Jul 2017) in your googling?
''The new 'people's home': how Sweden is waging war on inequality
Despite its reputation as one of the world’s most socially equal countries, even Sweden has had to tackle a widening gap between the haves and have-nots''
And your mate probably read this in the same Guardian article ''A fad among Stockholm’s gilded youth is vaskning – the ostentatious “sinking” of bottles of champagne by pouring them down the drain. Meanwhile, in Malmö, the infamous Rosengård estate is populated by impoverished immigrants and a breeding ground for violent gangs.''
Still you saw some bikes were unlocked, so the Guardian must be wrong and your point proved!
Oh FFS @Floyd Montana , I don't deny that Sweden has its problems. Which country does not, would you like to tell us? But if you don't think that Sweden has anything worthy of our admiration, I really can't be arsed, especially as you always seem intent on making it a personal attack.
PS OECD your source, you say? Well, here is the OECD's page on inequality. The relevant chart is right there, I'll let anyone who is interested take a look and evaluate the trust they want to put in your posts accordingly.
So. Any updates on how the UK will leave the single market and customs union, gain control of it's borders, yet allow the common travel area on the island of Ireland? Sorry brexiters to bring this up with no forewarning.
So. Any updates on how the UK will leave the single market and customs union, gain control of it's borders, yet allow the common travel area on the island of Ireland? Sorry brexiters to bring this up with no forewarning.
The best and most logical thing given how intertwined their economy is with the UK would be for Ireland to also leave the sinking EU ship before it gets screwed again. They could have a referendum which they do not have to repeat in order to get the right answer.
So. Any updates on how the UK will leave the single market and customs union, gain control of it's borders, yet allow the common travel area on the island of Ireland? Sorry brexiters to bring this up with no forewarning.
The best and most logical thing given how intertwined their economy is with the UK would be for Ireland to also leave the sinking EU ship before it gets screwed again. They could have a referendum which they do not have to repeat in order to get the right answer.
It will be some time before the massive stupidity leak in the UK spreads across the Irish Sea and gets the result you are looking for.
So. Any updates on how the UK will leave the single market and customs union, gain control of it's borders, yet allow the common travel area on the island of Ireland? Sorry brexiters to bring this up with no forewarning.
The best and most logical thing given how intertwined their economy is with the UK would be for Ireland to also leave the sinking EU ship before it gets screwed again. They could have a referendum which they do not have to repeat in order to get the right answer.
It will be some time before the massive stupidity leak in the UK spreads across the Irish Sea and gets the result you are looking for.
So. Any updates on how the UK will leave the single market and customs union, gain control of it's borders, yet allow the common travel area on the island of Ireland? Sorry brexiters to bring this up with no forewarning.
The best and most logical thing given how intertwined their economy is with the UK would be for Ireland to also leave the sinking EU ship before it gets screwed again. They could have a referendum which they do not have to repeat in order to get the right answer.
So. Any updates on how the UK will leave the single market and customs union, gain control of it's borders, yet allow the common travel area on the island of Ireland? Sorry brexiters to bring this up with no forewarning.
The best and most logical thing given how intertwined their economy is with the UK would be for Ireland to also leave the sinking EU ship before it gets screwed again. They could have a referendum which they do not have to repeat in order to get the right answer.
- The EU is growing at its fastest rate since 2011 and outstripping the UK - Irish support for EU membership bolstered by how badly Brexit is going and all evidence pointing to UK being worse off outside of EU - EU currently negotiating free trade deals with 80 nations with many of those looking to be finalised/completed in the short to medium term. - IMF has given EU glowing report card
Meanwhile
- UK economy as the worst off are being hit hardest as Government continues to cut spending as it tightens its belt due to Brexit - Sterling tanks hitting UK as we import more than we export; cost of living rises hit poorest - Support for Scottish independence and Irish unification swells thanks to Brexit - Currently a grand total of zero countries are actively pursuing free trade deal with UK post Brexit - Brain drain as skilled professionals look to return to EU; several industries reporting they cannot fill vacancies as skilled EU migrants no longer want to move to UK - Losing access and membership to key international agreements such as Euratom diminishes our influence and our progress in crucial fields - IMF continues to cut UK's economic outlook
Sinking ship? The good ship Brussels steams ahead on course whilst Nigel Farage leads the Brexiteers into a leaky dinghy over a waterfall.
So. Any updates on how the UK will leave the single market and customs union, gain control of it's borders, yet allow the common travel area on the island of Ireland? Sorry brexiters to bring this up with no forewarning.
The best and most logical thing given how intertwined their economy is with the UK would be for Ireland to also leave the sinking EU ship before it gets screwed again. They could have a referendum which they do not have to repeat in order to get the right answer.
It will be some time before the massive stupidity leak in the UK spreads across the Irish Sea and gets the result you are looking for.
If they want to stay in a single market with the UK then they might change their minds.
Maybe Brexiters could change their minds about following this batshit philosophy that UKIP actually have a point and realise there is not a single shred of evidence that there is any upside whatsoever to Brexit? Then maybe we could stop this monstrous waste of time and money on a policy which is, by all accounts, unjustifiable?
Let's face it, if we knew what we know now before the vote, Vote Leave would have been utterly crushed on polling day, as current polling confirms. Be pro-democracy and cancel Brexit; it's clearly what the people both want and need. Take the millions we are wasting on Brexit and put it into our NHS, which reports today are telling us is at breaking point this winter.
Brexit has actually made the EU much stronger as it has been able to clearly stand for openness and internationalism as opposed to the isolationism of Brexit and Trump. It is certainly seen much more positively in Spain than it was before Brexit, and clearly in Ireland too.
Brexit has actually made the EU much stronger as it has been able to clearly stand for openness and internationalism as opposed to the isolationism of Brexit and Trump. It is certainly seen much more positively in Spain than it was before Brexit, and clearly in Ireland too.
If 2017 has proven anything it has exposed Trump, Farage and the Brexiters and the other isolationist/nationalist movements for the dangerous frauds that they are. Not a single piece of good news regarding Brexit emerged in the last 12 months. The fact it continues to have any support is only evidence of how entrenched the sensationalist right wing media are in the hysteria of the voters as they do their best to suppress the realities of Brexit and undermine our democracy.
Brexit has actually made the EU much stronger as it has been able to clearly stand for openness and internationalism as opposed to the isolationism of Brexit and Trump. It is certainly seen much more positively in Spain than it was before Brexit, and clearly in Ireland too.
If 2017 has proven anything it has exposed Trump, Farage and the Brexiters and the other isolationist/nationalist movements for the dangerous frauds that they are. Not a single piece of good news regarding Brexit emerged in the last 12 months. The fact it continues to have any support is only evidence of how entrenched the sensationalist right wing media are in the hysteria of the voters as they do their best to suppress the realities of Brexit and undermine our democracy.
We have not left the EU yet, so how can there be any good Brexit news? The long delay in leaving has created an extended period of uncertainty and preoccupation with the wrong things, despite which we have virtually full employment. The quicker we leave the sooner we will be able to get in with solving our persistent political crisis and our productivity weakness, the two biggest problems we face.
Brexit has actually made the EU much stronger as it has been able to clearly stand for openness and internationalism as opposed to the isolationism of Brexit and Trump. It is certainly seen much more positively in Spain than it was before Brexit, and clearly in Ireland too.
If 2017 has proven anything it has exposed Trump, Farage and the Brexiters and the other isolationist/nationalist movements for the dangerous frauds that they are. Not a single piece of good news regarding Brexit emerged in the last 12 months. The fact it continues to have any support is only evidence of how entrenched the sensationalist right wing media are in the hysteria of the voters as they do their best to suppress the realities of Brexit and undermine our democracy.
We have not left the EU yet, so how can there be any good Brexit news? The long delay in leaving has created an extended period of uncertainty and preoccupation with the wrong things, despite which we have virtually full employment. The quicker we leave the sooner we will be able to get in with solving our persistent political crisis and our productivity weakness, the two biggest problems we face.
Or the quicker we drop this nationalistic farce, admit Brexit is the wrong way forward and go back to normal then we solve not just those two problems but also the national divide and our ongoing economic uncertainty.
Brexit has actually made the EU much stronger as it has been able to clearly stand for openness and internationalism as opposed to the isolationism of Brexit and Trump. It is certainly seen much more positively in Spain than it was before Brexit, and clearly in Ireland too.
If 2017 has proven anything it has exposed Trump, Farage and the Brexiters and the other isolationist/nationalist movements for the dangerous frauds that they are. Not a single piece of good news regarding Brexit emerged in the last 12 months. The fact it continues to have any support is only evidence of how entrenched the sensationalist right wing media are in the hysteria of the voters as they do their best to suppress the realities of Brexit and undermine our democracy.
We have not left the EU yet, so how can there be any good Brexit news? The long delay in leaving has created an extended period of uncertainty and preoccupation with the wrong things, despite which we have virtually full employment. The quicker we leave the sooner we will be able to get in with solving our persistent political crisis and our productivity weakness, the two biggest problems we face.
Or the quicker we drop this nationalistic farce, admit Brexit is the wrong way forward and go back to normal then we solve not just those two problems but also the national divide and our ongoing economic uncertainty.
We mainly sing from the same hymnsheet on this, but I can't see as how there will ever be a solution to the divide. I for one, maybe the only one, will never ever identify with those who voted brexit.
I can't see beyond this whole chitestorm playing out fully, or we will never ever hear the end of it from the brexiters.
The 52% got us into this mess, now they have to try (and definitely fail) to sort it all out. They won't be able to of course, there are no benefits to come out of all this unless you regard a blue passport as a benefit, but now we are where we are I can't see beyond reminding all the brexiters at every turn what they have done.
It is fascinating to see the metamorphosis of brexiters into those saying they are weary of it, and want to 'get on with it(!)' and 'wait and see what happens because nobody can tell what it will be like", and that nobody should 'talk the country down' and those involved should be 'flexible and creative' in sorting it all out for the brexiters. Even more fascinating will be creating a list of all the people and things that they blame for the failure of their own folly.
Or maybe brexiters will move on to an oldie but goldie that says: 'we have been in the EU for fifty years, so it is reasonable that we have to wait for fifty years after brexit to start seeing the benefits of leaving'...not so much as kick the can down the road as rolling a thousand oildrums down a motorway.
Come on brexiters, say something, tell us the goodies, make a forecast, establish some kind of narrative that doesn't crumble into nothingness on even cursory examination.
So. Any updates on how the UK will leave the single market and customs union, gain control of it's borders, yet allow the common travel area on the island of Ireland? Sorry brexiters to bring this up with no forewarning.
The best and most logical thing given how intertwined their economy is with the UK would be for Ireland to also leave the sinking EU ship before it gets screwed again. They could have a referendum which they do not have to repeat in order to get the right answer.
It will be some time before the massive stupidity leak in the UK spreads across the Irish Sea and gets the result you are looking for.
If they want to stay in a single market with the UK then they might change their minds.
What Ireland wants is to remain a member of the supranational body which has helped provide huge economic growth - it would like the UK to provide a realistic answer to how it wants to be outside the Single Market/Customs Union, yet continue the current relationship.
From an Irish perspective, the UK position is logically impossible, and the likely outcome of Brexit is damage to UK-Ireland trade (but that is the UK's choice).
There is no desire to undermine the wider Irish economy (which is predicated, in many regards, on EU membership) by compounding what is seen as the folly of Brexit by Ireland tying its colours to the same mast.
And, as an aside, you'd need far more than one re-running of any referendum if you wanted to get an Irexit vote (but, unlike the EU in previous cases, I cannot see the UK providing the sort of reassurances needed to persuade the Irish electorate that the move is both constitutional and wise).
...another £3b that's coming out of the £350m NHS money we send I assume.
Another mention for our old favourite chlorinated chicken too...
"The AAPG report says post-Brexit trade deals could pose the biggest peacetime threat to the UK's food security.
According to the group, the import of cheaper foods that are produced to lower safety and welfare standards could place UK farmers at a disadvantage.
"To compete with these lower prices, domestic farmers could seek to tighten their margins and therefore cut corners with regards to environmental regulations," the AAPG said.
"If the UK is unable to protect its farmers from being undermined by lower welfare imports, farmers are likely to resist improvements and may even press for UK standards to be lowered.
"There is a real danger that enhanced compatibility of regulations would make it very difficult for the UK to improve its standards in areas such as animal welfare, food safety and pesticide use and residues."
So we still have the completely trustworthy, never changes his mind, Gove, telling farmers our food/farming standards will be protected and the equally trustworthy and only "semi" lunatic Liam Fox saying something else to the public.
This isn't a new point but it will be interesting to see how the government responds to the conclusions of the latest report by their peers.
So. Any updates on how the UK will leave the single market and customs union, gain control of it's borders, yet allow the common travel area on the island of Ireland? Sorry brexiters to bring this up with no forewarning.
The best and most logical thing given how intertwined their economy is with the UK would be for Ireland to also leave the sinking EU ship before it gets screwed again. They could have a referendum which they do not have to repeat in order to get the right answer.
- The EU is growing at its fastest rate since 2011 and outstripping the UK - Irish support for EU membership bolstered by how badly Brexit is going and all evidence pointing to UK being worse off outside of EU - EU currently negotiating free trade deals with 80 nations with many of those looking to be finalised/completed in the short to medium term. - IMF has given EU glowing report card
Meanwhile
- UK economy as the worst off are being hit hardest as Government continues to cut spending as it tightens its belt due to Brexit - Sterling tanks hitting UK as we import more than we export; cost of living rises hit poorest - Support for Scottish independence and Irish unification swells thanks to Brexit - Currently a grand total of zero countries are actively pursuing free trade deal with UK post Brexit - Brain drain as skilled professionals look to return to EU; several industries reporting they cannot fill vacancies as skilled EU migrants no longer want to move to UK - Losing access and membership to key international agreements such as Euratom diminishes our influence and our progress in crucial fields - IMF continues to cut UK's economic outlook
Sinking ship? The good ship Brussels steams ahead on course whilst Nigel Farage leads the Brexiteers into a leaky dinghy over a waterfall.
So. Any updates on how the UK will leave the single market and customs union, gain control of it's borders, yet allow the common travel area on the island of Ireland? Sorry brexiters to bring this up with no forewarning.
The best and most logical thing given how intertwined their economy is with the UK would be for Ireland to also leave the sinking EU ship before it gets screwed again. They could have a referendum which they do not have to repeat in order to get the right answer.
- The EU is growing at its fastest rate since 2011 and outstripping the UK - Irish support for EU membership bolstered by how badly Brexit is going and all evidence pointing to UK being worse off outside of EU - EU currently negotiating free trade deals with 80 nations with many of those looking to be finalised/completed in the short to medium term. - IMF has given EU glowing report card
Meanwhile
- UK economy as the worst off are being hit hardest as Government continues to cut spending as it tightens its belt due to Brexit - Sterling tanks hitting UK as we import more than we export; cost of living rises hit poorest - Support for Scottish independence and Irish unification swells thanks to Brexit - Currently a grand total of zero countries are actively pursuing free trade deal with UK post Brexit - Brain drain as skilled professionals look to return to EU; several industries reporting they cannot fill vacancies as skilled EU migrants no longer want to move to UK - Losing access and membership to key international agreements such as Euratom diminishes our influence and our progress in crucial fields - IMF continues to cut UK's economic outlook
Sinking ship? The good ship Brussels steams ahead on course whilst Nigel Farage leads the Brexiteers into a leaky dinghy over a waterfall.
So. Any updates on how the UK will leave the single market and customs union, gain control of it's borders, yet allow the common travel area on the island of Ireland? Sorry brexiters to bring this up with no forewarning.
The best and most logical thing given how intertwined their economy is with the UK would be for Ireland to also leave the sinking EU ship before it gets screwed again. They could have a referendum which they do not have to repeat in order to get the right answer.
As Bertie Ahern put it in response to that particular suggestion, 'We're mad, but not that mad.'
Car sales are down due to the diesel effect. About to buy my second new car in the last 18 months..Never did that before brexit. I can distort facts too. Just mailed JOB that on his website bet he wont mention that come Monday.
Comments
So I am both very angry and very sad that they try to stop me voting now with this rule.
I do think that there are relatively few like me. People who have emigrated to Oz or NZ, they have really gone. Unlike me they won't be waking up to the Today programme on Radio 4, and they will be reading The Australian, not The Guardian on their tablets. Me, with London City on the schedule I can get to the Valley quicker than an Addick living in Plymouth (and probably for similar money too). But staying so connected to my mother country was my choice, not all make it. So what is the big deal about people like me voting? How many of us are there? I am not sure it would top 100k. It isn't a perfect match but it seems a majority of people on here who don't want me to vote, happen not to agree with a lot of my political views.
You're right, I haven't thought too much about it!
So do you think that you can elect to be a citizen somewhere, wherever that is, and always get to vote there, if even you have never lived there, or have not lived there for decades? Seems wrong to me. I said earlier that the 15 years seems about right and I stick to that... seems generous enough. I didn't mean in the post you quoted that your vote follows you round the world.
I actually think the Pole should get to vote. English people in Scotland were allowed to vote in the independence referendum, but Scottish people resident in England weren't. That for me is fair enough. Why? It affects their life where they live.
Well, for most countries we might admire, such as Germany or Sweden, you have to pass strict citizenship laws. So you would have to live there for quite some years, speak the language to a certain level, wait for the green light to cross the road, etc.
I think that you might over-estimate how many people like me would exercise their eternal right to vote. I will check but I think my German/Swedish buddy doesnt vote in Germany because he feels he doesnt have a dog in the race there, whereas in Sweden he has lots; family, friends, some tax, property, regular visitor on both biz and personal, so the transport system is an issue. So he votes there. I think the majority of Brits who are away a long time just gradually get immersed in the new country, especially if it is outside Europe, such as Oz. But modern Europe has created a different kind of citizen, and actively so, one that doesn't think of borders in the same way. I guess I am one of them. Ironically also, I think if there is one single factor that has kept me closely emotionally bound to the UK, it is Charlton. And Charlton Life!
Sweden with it's population of just 10 million and a fluctuating tax rate of up to 61%?
With 25% of immigrants living in absolute poverty?
A country with just about the greatest inequality in the western world?
Where 47% in recent youGov survey put immigration as top concern?
Where new laws preventing family reunification in 2016 reduced immigration by 82% in one year?
Sweden is a strange choice for your desire - it's characteristics making it almost unique, but yet still facing the same problems that saw the rise of UKIP.
The waves of migrants have also stirred a public backlash, one that challenges the country's image and core values of tolerance and openness.
Police crackdowns on illegal immigration is much easier in a country of this size.
Sweden has intensified its crackdown on illegal immigrants after a failed asylum-seeker killed five people in Stockholm, but the move has raised concerns that more migrants will be driven underground to join a shadowy underclass. The Migration Agency estimated 10,000 asylum-seekers a year will choose to disappear rather than be deported. Up to 50,000 undocumented immigrants already work in hotels, transport, construction and restaurants, the agency said last year. An extra 800 million crowns ($95 million) has been added to the police budget this year to bolster the clampdown, but senior officers say this is not enough. (Reuters)
The far-right anti-immigration political party Sweden Democrats has been steadily seeing increased public support, from 4% in 2010 to 21% in 2017 (Independent). In June one survey showed it now attracts the second-greatest amount of support from Swedes.
Lets see how their elections go later this year.
https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/datablog/2017/apr/26/inequality-index-where-are-the-worlds-most-unequal-countries?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
I would say that my Swedish buddy does worry about immigration but when we were in Malmö together recently he was banging on about how Rosengaard - Zlatans original home - was so tough and dangerous. When, thinking about Thamesmead, I expressed some skepticism he offered that we drive round it, so we did. It was a drab 70s council estate. All the roads were in perfect nick. There was no litter. The people looked no less prosperous than the shoppers in Eltham High Street. Admittedly the police station looked a bit scary. Big black square thing. In front of it was a bike rack. When I looked carefully I noted that all five bikes were unlocked......
Throw in a mate's anecdote and hey presto!
Classic Prague - only missing the troll accusation for anyone who counters any of your pontifications.
Strangely I was in Malmo too this Christmas with my great friend, a Swedish national, a qualified chemical engineer currently working as a truck driver and very concerned about immigration and the rise of the 'Sweden Democrats'.
''The new 'people's home': how Sweden is waging war on inequality
Despite its reputation as one of the world’s most socially equal countries, even Sweden has had to tackle a widening gap between the haves and have-nots''
And your mate probably read this in the same Guardian article
''A fad among Stockholm’s gilded youth is vaskning – the ostentatious “sinking” of bottles of champagne by pouring them down the drain. Meanwhile, in Malmö, the infamous Rosengård estate is populated by impoverished immigrants and a breeding ground for violent gangs.''
Still you saw some bikes were unlocked, so the Guardian must be wrong and your point proved!
I can't draw conclusions about cause and effect, but immigration is certainly causing a ripple.
PS OECD your source, you say? Well, here is the OECD's page on inequality. The relevant chart is right there, I'll let anyone who is interested take a look and evaluate the trust they want to put in your posts accordingly.
Which other points in my original post are not to be trusted?
Any updates on how the UK will leave the single market and customs union, gain control of it's borders, yet allow the common travel area on the island of Ireland?
Sorry brexiters to bring this up with no forewarning.
They could have a referendum which they do not have to repeat in order to get the right answer.
.........ah.....OK then.......
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0509/873610-eu_poll/
- Irish support for EU membership bolstered by how badly Brexit is going and all evidence pointing to UK being worse off outside of EU
- EU currently negotiating free trade deals with 80 nations with many of those looking to be finalised/completed in the short to medium term.
- IMF has given EU glowing report card
Meanwhile
- UK economy as the worst off are being hit hardest as Government continues to cut spending as it tightens its belt due to Brexit
- Sterling tanks hitting UK as we import more than we export; cost of living rises hit poorest
- Support for Scottish independence and Irish unification swells thanks to Brexit
- Currently a grand total of zero countries are actively pursuing free trade deal with UK post Brexit
- Brain drain as skilled professionals look to return to EU; several industries reporting they cannot fill vacancies as skilled EU migrants no longer want to move to UK
- Losing access and membership to key international agreements such as Euratom diminishes our influence and our progress in crucial fields
- IMF continues to cut UK's economic outlook
Sinking ship? The good ship Brussels steams ahead on course whilst Nigel Farage leads the Brexiteers into a leaky dinghy over a waterfall.
Let's face it, if we knew what we know now before the vote, Vote Leave would have been utterly crushed on polling day, as current polling confirms. Be pro-democracy and cancel Brexit; it's clearly what the people both want and need. Take the millions we are wasting on Brexit and put it into our NHS, which reports today are telling us is at breaking point this winter.
I can't see beyond this whole chitestorm playing out fully, or we will never ever hear the end of it from the brexiters.
The 52% got us into this mess, now they have to try (and definitely fail) to sort it all out. They won't be able to of course, there are no benefits to come out of all this unless you regard a blue passport as a benefit, but now we are where we are I can't see beyond reminding all the brexiters at every turn what they have done.
It is fascinating to see the metamorphosis of brexiters into those saying they are weary of it, and want to 'get on with it(!)' and 'wait and see what happens because nobody can tell what it will be like", and that nobody should 'talk the country down' and those involved should be 'flexible and creative' in sorting it all out for the brexiters. Even more fascinating will be creating a list of all the people and things that they blame for the failure of their own folly.
Or maybe brexiters will move on to an oldie but goldie that says: 'we have been in the EU for fifty years, so it is reasonable that we have to wait for fifty years after brexit to start seeing the benefits of leaving'...not so much as kick the can down the road as rolling a thousand oildrums down a motorway.
Come on brexiters, say something, tell us the goodies, make a forecast, establish some kind of narrative that doesn't crumble into nothingness on even cursory examination.
From an Irish perspective, the UK position is logically impossible, and the likely outcome of Brexit is damage to UK-Ireland trade (but that is the UK's choice).
There is no desire to undermine the wider Irish economy (which is predicated, in many regards, on EU membership) by compounding what is seen as the folly of Brexit by Ireland tying its colours to the same mast.
And, as an aside, you'd need far more than one re-running of any referendum if you wanted to get an Irexit vote (but, unlike the EU in previous cases, I cannot see the UK providing the sort of reassurances needed to persuade the Irish electorate that the move is both constitutional and wise).
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42559845
...another £3b that's coming out of the £350m NHS money we send I assume.
Another mention for our old favourite chlorinated chicken too...
"The AAPG report says post-Brexit trade deals could pose the biggest peacetime threat to the UK's food security.
According to the group, the import of cheaper foods that are produced to lower safety and welfare standards could place UK farmers at a disadvantage.
"To compete with these lower prices, domestic farmers could seek to tighten their margins and therefore cut corners with regards to environmental regulations," the AAPG said.
"If the UK is unable to protect its farmers from being undermined by lower welfare imports, farmers are likely to resist improvements and may even press for UK standards to be lowered.
"There is a real danger that enhanced compatibility of regulations would make it very difficult for the UK to improve its standards in areas such as animal welfare, food safety and pesticide use and residues."
So we still have the completely trustworthy, never changes his mind, Gove, telling farmers our food/farming standards will be protected and the equally trustworthy and only "semi" lunatic Liam Fox saying something else to the public.
This isn't a new point but it will be interesting to see how the government responds to the conclusions of the latest report by their peers.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2017/oct/31/eurozone-gdp-growth-france-unemployment-inflation
http://www.newstalk.com/Brexit-Ireland-opinion-poll-Britain-economy-Northern-Ireland-referendum-EU
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-brexit-economy-financial-gdp-no-deal-hard-soft-exit-eu-withdrawal-trade-rand-corporation-a8104921.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements
https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/REO/EU/Issues/2017/11/06/Eurreo1117
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/27/parts-of-uk-that-voted-for-brexit-may-be-hardest-hit-study-finds
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/12/uk-cost-of-living-rise-imports-boost-inflation-interest-rates
http://www.thenational.scot/news/15700141.Support_for_Scottish_independence_surges_amid_Brexit_chaos/
http://www.theweek.co.uk/northern-ireland/89293/unified-ireland-on-the-cards-if-brexit-goes-badly
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/fears-of-brexit-braindrain-grow-as-one-million-eu-nationals-consider-leaving-the-uk-a3621361.html
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/20/london-loses-european-medicines-agency-amsterdam-brexit-relocation
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/brexit-euratom-leaving-risk-uk-access-vital-medical-treatments-nuclear-regulator-eu-european-union-a7860861.html
https://www.ft.com/content/499115b6-ad90-11e7-beba-5521c713abf4
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-car-sales-forecast-two-year-drop-motor-industry-carmakers-eu-brexit-a8142236.html