Most Remain voters on this thread refrain from using slurs like 'fucktard'. There's one glaring exception to this, and believe me - most of us wish he'd put a sock in it sometimes too
Most Remain voters on this thread refrain from using slurs like 'fucktard'. There's one glaring exception to this, and believe me - most of us wish he'd put a sock in it sometimes too
Very informative as always @NornIrishAddick , but what if I was to suggest that Brexit is a good idea because we can make our own rule (like France) to get rid of all those bearded religious folk ?
What do you think the response would be on here / in general ?
My guess is - "typical Nazi leave voter"
You may say that UK could make such a law already (under our existing framework), and I guess it could, but my fundamental point is that we are in a community (EU) where parts of it have very different views on "freedom" than folk in the UK do.
What's the point in me having freedom to move to France if I have to shave my beard to get work and the Mrs has to ditch her burka to leave the house ?
Well, I would be inclined to point out that the French legal system, whilst (like all legal systems) imperfect, seeks to enforce a separation between Church and State. It is not about getting rid of any bearded religious folk, though I am confident that some will view it in that light - instead, it is about ensuring that no-one may, in any way, use public office to promote a specific religious viewpoint.
There are any number of examples in France of situations where, in the private sphere, individuals may (within the bounds of decency) sprout as much facial hair and/or dress as they wish, for whatever reasons that they desire.
So, provided that neither you nor your wife wish to work in the French public sector, you need not fear that you must abandon either your facial hair or her, no-doubt, delightful burqa.
If the UK was to elect a political party into power on a manifesto of enshrining an enforced secularism (which would, by definition also have to require the ending of the Established religions in the UK, and the removal of religiously appointed Peers and Bishops from the House of Lords - though I would prefer a Senate), I would be saddened, but would accept it as a valid political viewpoint, as long as it is not sectarian - the same rules would have to apply to all.
I would not call anyone a Nazi, if they suggested that that was a reason for voting for Brexit (I cannot speak for anyone else). Admittedly, I would absolutely disagree that that would make Brexit a "good idea".
I might be tempted, however, to ponder upon the motivations where anyone were to advocate that one particular group is targeted exclusively, because that is sectarian (and would, actually, be illegal here in Northern Ireland - I'm not suggesting that it is equivalent to requiring the wearing of a yellow star; but it is about making one community within society less valued than the rest, and this is not a good thing).
The only way to be fair, is to demand the same standards from everyone, though I do have my doubts that legislation is ever effective in terms of clothing (the Sumptuary Laws have shown that it rarely works out).
For what it is worth, I do not have a particular liking for laws enforcing secularism (though their erosion in Turkey under the Erdogan premiership does give pause for thought). I would prefer to live in a world where we could all accept each other for how we are, and not make assumptions based on dress, etc. (with the utterly dishonourable exception of Nazis).
But, the thing is, almost by definition, an EU which encompasses countries and peoples with very different views of freedoms, etc., as you have described, is incompatible with an EU, that you also described, that could introduce laws compelling all (let's admit it) Muslim men to shave their beards to find work. The first vision ensures that the second cannot happen.
And, dare I say it, within the UK there are plenty of examples of differing regional perspectives on any number of things on which Parliament legislates for the whole country, would these differences legitimate the dissolution of the Union, or even the break-up of England?
Bollocks to that suggestion to be frank. No one on this discussion for example has refused to listen to or consider the views of Leavers.
Indeed they have been invited, constantly, to set out their alternative position/propostion and the evidence and data supporting this. As were those behind the Brexit campaign invited to set out the nature of the UK's future relationship before the referendum. They refused to do so or have since changed this position to something other than that previously stated and voted on.
It is not the fault of those on the Remain side of this equation that the massive weight of evidence at the moment, coupled with the shambolic nature of the UK government and their negotiating position, favours their view and does not support Brexit as a favourable policy to pursue.
Instead of regularly portraying those who voted to stay as overly biased, blinkered and somehow incapable of taking an objective view, why not actually make a proactive and positive contribution to the discussion and spell out some of the positives for us? Maybe explain why a US government trade representative admitting on the record they will be looking to downgrade our agricultural standards is a good thing for example...no one on the Leave side has even acknowledged this recent statement?
And yes, I am aware you claim to have voted Remain.
Calm down. There's no need for the level of anger emanating from you.
The echo chamber quip was put up as being true for both sides of the divide.
Breathe.
Anger? Raging? Just the usual standard deflection from the substantive point it seems to me.
If you've followed some of my posts over years now you would have seen many times I have raised the issue of Confirmation Bias on here and how we should all be aware and caution against it. I know that I'm much more aware of it than I used to be hence I look to substantiate and inform my own views with data, etc. and I remain (no pun intended) more than happy to consider the views of those who I don't agree with on a subject. Like you. Doesn't mean I won't challenge them though or support views that I do agree with and in doing so doesn't mean that I'm unreasonably biased or by definition part of a echo chamber. IMO.
I would have no problem with you pointing out a poster's bias if you did so more equatable but it seems..and again I conceded this might in fact be my own Confirmation Bias kicking in...that the majority of your posts are negative in tone towards Remainers and invariably supportive right of centre politics on other issues.
The majority of my posts are either made up of a sarcastic comment aimed at the subject matter as a whole, a sarcastic comment at the excessive use of emotive nonsense when trying to (over)emphasise a point to put people off of posting for fear of them being labelled with all the emotive nonsense that preceded, or it's just an attempt at humour to break the monotony of the tail chasing.
That's really it, mate. No hidden agenda here, which will be very hard for some to accept as it's quite clear that if you don't fall over yourself to like certain posts then it most definitely means you're the enemy.
FWIW the echo chamber picture was posted to encompass all, hence why I made sure not to use it in reply to another post.
As for the deflection bit, I'm glad you agree with the point I made a couple of weeks back where a gang of hoodrats piled in on one of my posts for being truthful
Some on here take themselves far too seriously and need to lighten up.
For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
If I am one of those, then you are making a totally incorrect assumption ... not for the first time.
I have far from ‘given up’. The issue is that I have seen nothing of interest in this thread on which to comment.
Plus I have posted my thoughts on why I voted in the way I did on innumerable occasions, despite some of the comments I get in return.
Once there is something worth responding to, I will comment again.
And there is the heart of the oxymoron evident in Farage and his like's position. They both decry the bureaucracy whilst insisting that the EU can just go and force stuff on us.
Red_in_SE8 said: » show previous quotes For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
The 'most serious crisis facing the UK since WW2' would happen if an elitist cabal overturns the result of the Referendum against the wishes of the majority.
Bollocks to that suggestion to be frank. No one on this discussion for example has refused to listen to or consider the views of Leavers.
Indeed they have been invited, constantly, to set out their alternative position/propostion and the evidence and data supporting this. As were those behind the Brexit campaign invited to set out the nature of the UK's future relationship before the referendum. They refused to do so or have since changed this position to something other than that previously stated and voted on.
It is not the fault of those on the Remain side of this equation that the massive weight of evidence at the moment, coupled with the shambolic nature of the UK government and their negotiating position, favours their view and does not support Brexit as a favourable policy to pursue.
Instead of regularly portraying those who voted to stay as overly biased, blinkered and somehow incapable of taking an objective view, why not actually make a proactive and positive contribution to the discussion and spell out some of the positives for us? Maybe explain why a US government trade representative admitting on the record they will be looking to downgrade our agricultural standards is a good thing for example...no one on the Leave side has even acknowledged this recent statement?
And yes, I am aware you claim to have voted Remain.
Calm down. There's no need for the level of anger emanating from you.
The echo chamber quip was put up as being true for both sides of the divide.
Breathe.
Anger? Raging? Just the usual standard deflection from the substantive point it seems to me.
If you've followed some of my posts over years now you would have seen many times I have raised the issue of Confirmation Bias on here and how we should all be aware and caution against it. I know that I'm much more aware of it than I used to be hence I look to substantiate and inform my own views with data, etc. and I remain (no pun intended) more than happy to consider the views of those who I don't agree with on a subject. Like you. Doesn't mean I won't challenge them though or support views that I do agree with and in doing so doesn't mean that I'm unreasonably biased or by definition part of a echo chamber. IMO.
I would have no problem with you pointing out a poster's bias if you did so more equatable but it seems..and again I conceded this might in fact be my own Confirmation Bias kicking in...that the majority of your posts are negative in tone towards Remainers and invariably supportive right of centre politics on other issues.
The majority of my posts are either made up of a sarcastic comment aimed at the subject matter as a whole, a sarcastic comment at the excessive use of emotive nonsense when trying to (over)emphasise a point to put people off of posting for fear of them being labelled with all the emotive nonsense that preceded, or it's just an attempt at humour to break the monotony of the tail chasing.
That's really it, mate. No hidden agenda here, which will be very hard for some to accept as it's quite clear that if you don't fall over yourself to like certain posts then it most definitely means you're the enemy.
FWIW the echo chamber picture was posted to encompass all, hence why I made sure not to use it in reply to another post.
As for the deflection bit, I'm glad you agree with the point I made a couple of weeks back where a gang of hoodrats piled in on one of my posts for being truthful
Some on here take themselves far too seriously and need to lighten up.
For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
You and a few other like minded Brexit voters contribute nothing to the thread other than to constantly express irritation that the thread has not been closed and to mock the members who continue to post on it. As I have stated before, it is a bit like me opening a TV reality show thread and repeatedly laughing at and mocking the regular posters on the thread and urging them to get a life.
Apart from posting biased links and abusing people, do enlighten me on what your contribution has been. Mine is meant as a joke, i assume yours is too, as you talk absolute crap.
I did not claim to make a significant contribution to this thread. I regularly post links to articles written by respected journalists and experts. Mostly however, I use this thread to keep up with all the Brexit news as it develops and have the more complex developments explained by better informed posters than myself such as @NornIrishAddick, @Bournemouth Addick , @PragueAddick and a few others.
Over the next year this thread will overheat regularly as the cliff edge approaches and tempers rise and the debate becomes evermore vigorous. Some people will enjoy that, some people won't. Whatever, it does not change the fact that for a lot of people this thread, and its predecessor, was, is and will continue to be a useful resource for those who are interested and concerned about the impact that Brexit will have on the future of the UK.
Some posters will be more polite than others. We can make a pretty good guess into which camps the regular posters will fall. And yes, I know I am not in the polite camp when it comes to Brexit.
If you are a snowflake don't open the thread. If you don't like the pro Remain tone of the thread open the Brexit threads on the Millwall forums instead.
Red_in_SE8 said: » show previous quotes For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
The 'most serious crisis facing the UK since WW2' would happen if an elitist cabal overturns the result of the Referendum against the wishes of the majority.
Red_in_SE8 said: » show previous quotes For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
The 'most serious crisis facing the UK since WW2' would happen if an elitist cabal overturns the result of the Referendum against the wishes of the majority.
Bollocks to that suggestion to be frank. No one on this discussion for example has refused to listen to or consider the views of Leavers.
Indeed they have been invited, constantly, to set out their alternative position/propostion and the evidence and data supporting this. As were those behind the Brexit campaign invited to set out the nature of the UK's future relationship before the referendum. They refused to do so or have since changed this position to something other than that previously stated and voted on.
It is not the fault of those on the Remain side of this equation that the massive weight of evidence at the moment, coupled with the shambolic nature of the UK government and their negotiating position, favours their view and does not support Brexit as a favourable policy to pursue.
Instead of regularly portraying those who voted to stay as overly biased, blinkered and somehow incapable of taking an objective view, why not actually make a proactive and positive contribution to the discussion and spell out some of the positives for us? Maybe explain why a US government trade representative admitting on the record they will be looking to downgrade our agricultural standards is a good thing for example...no one on the Leave side has even acknowledged this recent statement?
And yes, I am aware you claim to have voted Remain.
Calm down. There's no need for the level of anger emanating from you.
The echo chamber quip was put up as being true for both sides of the divide.
Breathe.
Anger? Raging? Just the usual standard deflection from the substantive point it seems to me.
If you've followed some of my posts over years now you would have seen many times I have raised the issue of Confirmation Bias on here and how we should all be aware and caution against it. I know that I'm much more aware of it than I used to be hence I look to substantiate and inform my own views with data, etc. and I remain (no pun intended) more than happy to consider the views of those who I don't agree with on a subject. Like you. Doesn't mean I won't challenge them though or support views that I do agree with and in doing so doesn't mean that I'm unreasonably biased or by definition part of a echo chamber. IMO.
I would have no problem with you pointing out a poster's bias if you did so more equatable but it seems..and again I conceded this might in fact be my own Confirmation Bias kicking in...that the majority of your posts are negative in tone towards Remainers and invariably supportive right of centre politics on other issues.
The majority of my posts are either made up of a sarcastic comment aimed at the subject matter as a whole, a sarcastic comment at the excessive use of emotive nonsense when trying to (over)emphasise a point to put people off of posting for fear of them being labelled with all the emotive nonsense that preceded, or it's just an attempt at humour to break the monotony of the tail chasing.
That's really it, mate. No hidden agenda here, which will be very hard for some to accept as it's quite clear that if you don't fall over yourself to like certain posts then it most definitely means you're the enemy.
FWIW the echo chamber picture was posted to encompass all, hence why I made sure not to use it in reply to another post.
As for the deflection bit, I'm glad you agree with the point I made a couple of weeks back where a gang of hoodrats piled in on one of my posts for being truthful
Some on here take themselves far too seriously and need to lighten up.
For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
If I am one of those, then you are making a totally incorrect assumption ... not for the first time.
I have far from ‘given up’. The issue is that I have seen nothing of interest in this thread on which to comment.
Plus I have posted my thoughts on why I voted in the way I did on innumerable occasions, despite some of the comments I get in return.
Once there is something worth responding to, I will comment again.
But surely you agree the thread continues to be a useful resource for news, debate and explaination by the better informed posters amongst us?
Bollocks to that suggestion to be frank. No one on this discussion for example has refused to listen to or consider the views of Leavers.
Indeed they have been invited, constantly, to set out their alternative position/propostion and the evidence and data supporting this. As were those behind the Brexit campaign invited to set out the nature of the UK's future relationship before the referendum. They refused to do so or have since changed this position to something other than that previously stated and voted on.
It is not the fault of those on the Remain side of this equation that the massive weight of evidence at the moment, coupled with the shambolic nature of the UK government and their negotiating position, favours their view and does not support Brexit as a favourable policy to pursue.
Instead of regularly portraying those who voted to stay as overly biased, blinkered and somehow incapable of taking an objective view, why not actually make a proactive and positive contribution to the discussion and spell out some of the positives for us? Maybe explain why a US government trade representative admitting on the record they will be looking to downgrade our agricultural standards is a good thing for example...no one on the Leave side has even acknowledged this recent statement?
And yes, I am aware you claim to have voted Remain.
Calm down. There's no need for the level of anger emanating from you.
The echo chamber quip was put up as being true for both sides of the divide.
Breathe.
Anger? Raging? Just the usual standard deflection from the substantive point it seems to me.
If you've followed some of my posts over years now you would have seen many times I have raised the issue of Confirmation Bias on here and how we should all be aware and caution against it. I know that I'm much more aware of it than I used to be hence I look to substantiate and inform my own views with data, etc. and I remain (no pun intended) more than happy to consider the views of those who I don't agree with on a subject. Like you. Doesn't mean I won't challenge them though or support views that I do agree with and in doing so doesn't mean that I'm unreasonably biased or by definition part of a echo chamber. IMO.
I would have no problem with you pointing out a poster's bias if you did so more equatable but it seems..and again I conceded this might in fact be my own Confirmation Bias kicking in...that the majority of your posts are negative in tone towards Remainers and invariably supportive right of centre politics on other issues.
The majority of my posts are either made up of a sarcastic comment aimed at the subject matter as a whole, a sarcastic comment at the excessive use of emotive nonsense when trying to (over)emphasise a point to put people off of posting for fear of them being labelled with all the emotive nonsense that preceded, or it's just an attempt at humour to break the monotony of the tail chasing.
That's really it, mate. No hidden agenda here, which will be very hard for some to accept as it's quite clear that if you don't fall over yourself to like certain posts then it most definitely means you're the enemy.
FWIW the echo chamber picture was posted to encompass all, hence why I made sure not to use it in reply to another post.
As for the deflection bit, I'm glad you agree with the point I made a couple of weeks back where a gang of hoodrats piled in on one of my posts for being truthful
Some on here take themselves far too seriously and need to lighten up.
For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
You and a few other like minded Brexit voters contribute nothing to the thread other than to constantly express irritation that the thread has not been closed and to mock the members who continue to post on it. As I have stated before, it is a bit like me opening a TV reality show thread and repeatedly laughing at and mocking the regular posters on the thread and urging them to get a life.
Apart from posting biased links and abusing people, do enlighten me on what your contribution has been. Mine is meant as a joke, i assume yours is too, as you talk absolute crap.
I did not claim to make a significant contribution to this thread. I regularly post links to articles written by respected journalists and experts. Mostly however, I use this thread to keep up with all the Brexit news as it develops and have the more complex developments explained by better informed posters than myself such as @NornIrishAddick, @Bournemouth Addick , @PragueAddick and a few others.
Over the next year this thread will overheat regularly as the cliff edge approaches and tempers rise and the debate becomes evermore vigorous. Some people will enjoy that, some people won't. Whatever, it does not change the fact that for a lot of people this thread, and its predecessor, was, is and will continue to be a useful resource for those who are interested and concerned about the impact that Brexit will have on the future of the UK.
Some posters will be more polite than others. We can make a pretty good guess into which camps the regular posters will fall. And yes, I know I am not in the polite camp when it comes to Brexit.
If you are a snowflake don't open the thread. If you don't like the pro Remain tone of the thread open the Brexit threads on the Millwall forums instead.
Your the second person to suggest I am or go in the Millwall camp.
Bollocks to that suggestion to be frank. No one on this discussion for example has refused to listen to or consider the views of Leavers.
Indeed they have been invited, constantly, to set out their alternative position/propostion and the evidence and data supporting this. As were those behind the Brexit campaign invited to set out the nature of the UK's future relationship before the referendum. They refused to do so or have since changed this position to something other than that previously stated and voted on.
It is not the fault of those on the Remain side of this equation that the massive weight of evidence at the moment, coupled with the shambolic nature of the UK government and their negotiating position, favours their view and does not support Brexit as a favourable policy to pursue.
Instead of regularly portraying those who voted to stay as overly biased, blinkered and somehow incapable of taking an objective view, why not actually make a proactive and positive contribution to the discussion and spell out some of the positives for us? Maybe explain why a US government trade representative admitting on the record they will be looking to downgrade our agricultural standards is a good thing for example...no one on the Leave side has even acknowledged this recent statement?
And yes, I am aware you claim to have voted Remain.
Calm down. There's no need for the level of anger emanating from you.
The echo chamber quip was put up as being true for both sides of the divide.
Breathe.
Anger? Raging? Just the usual standard deflection from the substantive point it seems to me.
If you've followed some of my posts over years now you would have seen many times I have raised the issue of Confirmation Bias on here and how we should all be aware and caution against it. I know that I'm much more aware of it than I used to be hence I look to substantiate and inform my own views with data, etc. and I remain (no pun intended) more than happy to consider the views of those who I don't agree with on a subject. Like you. Doesn't mean I won't challenge them though or support views that I do agree with and in doing so doesn't mean that I'm unreasonably biased or by definition part of a echo chamber. IMO.
I would have no problem with you pointing out a poster's bias if you did so more equatable but it seems..and again I conceded this might in fact be my own Confirmation Bias kicking in...that the majority of your posts are negative in tone towards Remainers and invariably supportive right of centre politics on other issues.
The majority of my posts are either made up of a sarcastic comment aimed at the subject matter as a whole, a sarcastic comment at the excessive use of emotive nonsense when trying to (over)emphasise a point to put people off of posting for fear of them being labelled with all the emotive nonsense that preceded, or it's just an attempt at humour to break the monotony of the tail chasing.
That's really it, mate. No hidden agenda here, which will be very hard for some to accept as it's quite clear that if you don't fall over yourself to like certain posts then it most definitely means you're the enemy.
FWIW the echo chamber picture was posted to encompass all, hence why I made sure not to use it in reply to another post.
As for the deflection bit, I'm glad you agree with the point I made a couple of weeks back where a gang of hoodrats piled in on one of my posts for being truthful
Some on here take themselves far too seriously and need to lighten up.
For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
You and a few other like minded Brexit voters contribute nothing to the thread other than to constantly express irritation that the thread has not been closed and to mock the members who continue to post on it. As I have stated before, it is a bit like me opening a TV reality show thread and repeatedly laughing at and mocking the regular posters on the thread and urging them to get a life.
Apart from posting biased links and abusing people, do enlighten me on what your contribution has been. Mine is meant as a joke, i assume yours is too, as you talk absolute crap.
I did not claim to make a significant contribution to this thread. I regularly post links to articles written by respected journalists and experts. Mostly however, I use this thread to keep up with all the Brexit news as it develops and have the more complex developments explained by better informed posters than myself such as @NornIrishAddick, @Bournemouth Addick , @PragueAddick and a few others.
Over the next year this thread will overheat regularly as the cliff edge approaches and tempers rise and the debate becomes evermore vigorous. Some people will enjoy that, some people won't. Whatever, it does not change the fact that for a lot of people this thread, and its predecessor, was, is and will continue to be a useful resource for those who are interested and concerned about the impact that Brexit will have on the future of the UK.
Some posters will be more polite than others. We can make a pretty good guess into which camps the regular posters will fall. And yes, I know I am not in the polite camp when it comes to Brexit.
If you are a snowflake don't open the thread. If you don't like the pro Remain tone of the thread open the Brexit threads on the Millwall forums instead.
Your the second person to suggest I am or go in the Millwall camp.
I don't think he was referring to you. More likely to the resident Spanner on the thread.
Anyway, while you are here, Chips old chap, I want to hear more about your cars. I presume you have bought British, so you started with a Morgan, and then traded it in for a Caterham? Or are you doing so well you kept the Morgan? Or perhaps like the PM you persuaded yourself that a Jag is still British? Shall we call you, very affectionately, 2JagsChips ?
Red_in_SE8 said: » show previous quotes For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
The 'most serious crisis facing the UK since WW2' would happen if an elitist cabal overturns the result of the Referendum against the wishes of the majority.
37% is not a majority.
Consoling yourself by fiddling numbers would not change the severe nature of the political crisis it would cause.
Red_in_SE8 said: » show previous quotes For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
The 'most serious crisis facing the UK since WW2' would happen if an elitist cabal overturns the result of the Referendum against the wishes of the majority.
37% is not a majority.
Consoling yourself by fiddling numbers would not change the severe nature of the political crisis it would cause.
Not if we had a further (binding) referendum. Especially as the electorate are now much better informed about the consequences of leaving.
Surely nothing to be afraid in that for the leavers?
Red_in_SE8 said: » show previous quotes For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
The 'most serious crisis facing the UK since WW2' would happen if an elitist cabal overturns the result of the Referendum against the wishes of the majority.
37% is not a majority.
Consoling yourself by fiddling numbers would not change the severe nature of the political crisis it would cause.
Not if we had a further (binding) referendum. Especially as the electorate are now much better informed about the consequences of leaving.
Surely nothing to be afraid in that for the leavers?
Red_in_SE8 said: » show previous quotes For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
The 'most serious crisis facing the UK since WW2' would happen if an elitist cabal overturns the result of the Referendum against the wishes of the majority.
37% is not a majority.
Consoling yourself by fiddling numbers would not change the severe nature of the political crisis it would cause.
Not if we had a further (binding) referendum. Especially as the electorate are now much better informed about the consequences of leaving.
Surely nothing to be afraid in that for the leavers?
We had a referendum. We were all warned the world would end if we left. We are only 'better informed' now in that we know that was bs.
Last 2 points are clearly only your opinion/views. Recent Polls suggest now that the electorate feel better informed they would not vote 'leave'. Hence the reluctance for a further vote?
Red_in_SE8 said: » show previous quotes For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
The 'most serious crisis facing the UK since WW2' would happen if an elitist cabal overturns the result of the Referendum against the wishes of the majority.
37% is not a majority.
Consoling yourself by fiddling numbers would not change the severe nature of the political crisis it would cause.
Not if we had a further (binding) referendum. Especially as the electorate are now much better informed about the consequences of leaving.
Surely nothing to be afraid in that for the leavers?
We had a referendum. We were all warned the world would end if we left. We are only 'better informed' now in that we know that was bs.
Last 2 points are clearly only your opinion/views. Recent Polls suggest now that the electorate feel better informed they would not vote 'leave'. Hence the reluctance for a further vote?
I don't see why people feel better informed. Certainly the issues have been discussed to a great extent, which was scandalously lacking from both sides during the lead up to the referendum.
We cannot be well informed about what Brexit will eventually mean in reality as a deal hasnt been struck and far too many politicians are doing their best to make sure it doesn't happen. Including the Prime Minister with poor negotiations.
Red_in_SE8 said: » show previous quotes For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
The 'most serious crisis facing the UK since WW2' would happen if an elitist cabal overturns the result of the Referendum against the wishes of the majority.
37% is not a majority.
Consoling yourself by fiddling numbers would not change the severe nature of the political crisis it would cause.
Not if we had a further (binding) referendum. Especially as the electorate are now much better informed about the consequences of leaving.
Surely nothing to be afraid in that for the leavers?
We had a referendum. We were all warned the world would end if we left. We are only 'better informed' now in that we know that was bs.
Last 2 points are clearly only your opinion/views. Recent Polls suggest now that the electorate feel better informed they would not vote 'leave'. Hence the reluctance for a further vote?
I don't see why people feel better informed. Certainly the issues have been discussed to a great extent, which was scandalously lacking from both sides during the lead up to the referendum.
We cannot be well informed about what Brexit will eventually mean in reality as a deal hasnt been struck and far too many politicians are doing their best to make sure it doesn't happen. Including the Prime Minister with poor negotiations.
You don't feel better informed now? Well you were better informed than I was in June 2016 then. Presumably if I had asked you, you would have been able to explain me exactly what Euratom is, and why it is so important to health care. You would have instantly pointed out that the European Court of Human Rights is not an EU institution. You'd have explained to me what passporting is, as it affects City financial institutions, and what could happen if they lose it. You knew all about the VAT catch for importers that was revealed to the rest of us earlier this week. Of course you knew that the regions most pro-Brexit are precisely those most set to suffer the economic consequences, while London would suffer the least. You knew that the Medicines Agency would likely relocate to Amsterdam, costing us £500m in the process. You knew that the Civil Service would find itself managing more than 300 separate projects at this time in order to make Brexit happen. To name but a few of the things I didn't know, but you clearly did.
Wow, I wish you'd told me those things. And then, best of all, your reasons why, despite all that, you still planned to Vote Leave!
Red_in_SE8 said: » show previous quotes For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
The 'most serious crisis facing the UK since WW2' would happen if an elitist cabal overturns the result of the Referendum against the wishes of the majority.
37% is not a majority.
Consoling yourself by fiddling numbers would not change the severe nature of the political crisis it would cause.
Not if we had a further (binding) referendum. Especially as the electorate are now much better informed about the consequences of leaving.
Surely nothing to be afraid in that for the leavers?
We had a referendum. We were all warned the world would end if we left. We are only 'better informed' now in that we know that was bs.
Last 2 points are clearly only your opinion/views. Recent Polls suggest now that the electorate feel better informed they would not vote 'leave'. Hence the reluctance for a further vote?
I don't see why people feel better informed. Certainly the issues have been discussed to a great extent, which was scandalously lacking from both sides during the lead up to the referendum.
We cannot be well informed about what Brexit will eventually mean in reality as a deal hasnt been struck and far too many politicians are doing their best to make sure it doesn't happen. Including the Prime Minister with poor negotiations.
You don't feel better informed now? Well you were better informed than I was in June 2016 then. Presumably if I had asked you, you would have been able to explain me exactly what Euratom is, and why it is so important to health care. You would have instantly pointed out that the European Court of Human Rights is not an EU institution. You'd have explained to me what passporting is, as it affects City financial institutions, and what could happen if they lose it. You knew all about the VAT catch for importers that was revealed to the rest of us earlier this week. Of course you knew that the regions most pro-Brexit are precisely those most set to suffer the economic consequences, while London would suffer the least. You knew that the Medicines Agency would likely relocate to Amsterdam, costing us £500m in the process. You knew that the Civil Service would find itself managing more than 300 separate projects at this time in order to make Brexit happen. To name but a few of the things I didn't know, but you clearly did.
Wow, I wish you'd told me those things. And then, best of all, your reasons why, despite all that, you still planned to Vote Leave!
We knew that when we left the EU we would be leaving its institutional grip. As long as we are still in all that is visible are the consequences of leaving and not what life will be like after we have left. This will depend on how we leave of course and how long the uncertainties created by the long drawn out process last. After we leave we can do things better, such as Gove's proposed changes in agricultural practices to dump the corrupt CAP.
Red_in_SE8 said: » show previous quotes For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
The 'most serious crisis facing the UK since WW2' would happen if an elitist cabal overturns the result of the Referendum against the wishes of the majority.
37% is not a majority.
Consoling yourself by fiddling numbers would not change the severe nature of the political crisis it would cause.
Not if we had a further (binding) referendum. Especially as the electorate are now much better informed about the consequences of leaving.
Surely nothing to be afraid in that for the leavers?
We had a referendum. We were all warned the world would end if we left. We are only 'better informed' now in that we know that was bs.
Last 2 points are clearly only your opinion/views. Recent Polls suggest now that the electorate feel better informed they would not vote 'leave'. Hence the reluctance for a further vote?
I don't see why people feel better informed. Certainly the issues have been discussed to a great extent, which was scandalously lacking from both sides during the lead up to the referendum.
We cannot be well informed about what Brexit will eventually mean in reality as a deal hasnt been struck and far too many politicians are doing their best to make sure it doesn't happen. Including the Prime Minister with poor negotiations.
"We cannot be well informed about what Brexit will eventually mean in reality as a deal hasn't been struck".
I am just letting that comment sink in for a moment. What this says is that the consequences of a decision we made we not - and are still not - known at the time we made the decision. But that those consequences will be made clear at some point in the future, at a time at which it will be too late to do anything about.
Here's an analogy. You're told there is a speed camera some way ahead. You can go as fast as you like and, in fact, choose exactly what to drive. But you're not told what the speed limit is on the road, until after you have passed the camera. Is that a scenario that seems attractive?
If not, then you might agree that not knowing the outcome of the decision that's been made until it's too late to do something about it is a pretty good description of the something that should be avoided.
If I didn't know the speed limit, but I knew there was a speed camera ahead, I would take evasive action (like, turning round), instead of blindly careering forward in the hope that between us, all the passengers in the car could pony up the dough for the fine.
Red_in_SE8 said: » show previous quotes For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
The 'most serious crisis facing the UK since WW2' would happen if an elitist cabal overturns the result of the Referendum against the wishes of the majority.
37% is not a majority.
Consoling yourself by fiddling numbers would not change the severe nature of the political crisis it would cause.
Not if we had a further (binding) referendum. Especially as the electorate are now much better informed about the consequences of leaving.
Surely nothing to be afraid in that for the leavers?
We had a referendum. We were all warned the world would end if we left. We are only 'better informed' now in that we know that was bs.
Last 2 points are clearly only your opinion/views. Recent Polls suggest now that the electorate feel better informed they would not vote 'leave'. Hence the reluctance for a further vote?
I don't see why people feel better informed. Certainly the issues have been discussed to a great extent, which was scandalously lacking from both sides during the lead up to the referendum.
We cannot be well informed about what Brexit will eventually mean in reality as a deal hasnt been struck and far too many politicians are doing their best to make sure it doesn't happen. Including the Prime Minister with poor negotiations.
You don't feel better informed now? Well you were better informed than I was in June 2016 then. Presumably if I had asked you, you would have been able to explain me exactly what Euratom is, and why it is so important to health care. You would have instantly pointed out that the European Court of Human Rights is not an EU institution. You'd have explained to me what passporting is, as it affects City financial institutions, and what could happen if they lose it. You knew all about the VAT catch for importers that was revealed to the rest of us earlier this week. Of course you knew that the regions most pro-Brexit are precisely those most set to suffer the economic consequences, while London would suffer the least. You knew that the Medicines Agency would likely relocate to Amsterdam, costing us £500m in the process. You knew that the Civil Service would find itself managing more than 300 separate projects at this time in order to make Brexit happen. To name but a few of the things I didn't know, but you clearly did.
Wow, I wish you'd told me those things. And then, best of all, your reasons why, despite all that, you still planned to Vote Leave!
Red_in_SE8 said: » show previous quotes For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
The 'most serious crisis facing the UK since WW2' would happen if an elitist cabal overturns the result of the Referendum against the wishes of the majority.
37% is not a majority.
Consoling yourself by fiddling numbers would not change the severe nature of the political crisis it would cause.
Not if we had a further (binding) referendum. Especially as the electorate are now much better informed about the consequences of leaving.
Surely nothing to be afraid in that for the leavers?
We had a referendum. We were all warned the world would end if we left. We are only 'better informed' now in that we know that was bs.
Last 2 points are clearly only your opinion/views. Recent Polls suggest now that the electorate feel better informed they would not vote 'leave'. Hence the reluctance for a further vote?
I don't see why people feel better informed. Certainly the issues have been discussed to a great extent, which was scandalously lacking from both sides during the lead up to the referendum.
We cannot be well informed about what Brexit will eventually mean in reality as a deal hasnt been struck and far too many politicians are doing their best to make sure it doesn't happen. Including the Prime Minister with poor negotiations.
You don't feel better informed now? Well you were better informed than I was in June 2016 then. Presumably if I had asked you, you would have been able to explain me exactly what Euratom is, and why it is so important to health care. You would have instantly pointed out that the European Court of Human Rights is not an EU institution. You'd have explained to me what passporting is, as it affects City financial institutions, and what could happen if they lose it. You knew all about the VAT catch for importers that was revealed to the rest of us earlier this week. Of course you knew that the regions most pro-Brexit are precisely those most set to suffer the economic consequences, while London would suffer the least. You knew that the Medicines Agency would likely relocate to Amsterdam, costing us £500m in the process. You knew that the Civil Service would find itself managing more than 300 separate projects at this time in order to make Brexit happen. To name but a few of the things I didn't know, but you clearly did.
Wow, I wish you'd told me those things. And then, best of all, your reasons why, despite all that, you still planned to Vote Leave!
We knew that when we left the EU we would be leaving its institutional grip. As long as we are still in all that is visible are the consequences of leaving and not what life will be like after we have left. This will depend on how we leave of course and how long the uncertainties created by the long drawn out process last. After we leave we can do things better, such as Gove's proposed changes in agricultural practices to dump the corrupt CAP.
Or we could have joined the many other EU member states who are ready to push through reform of the CAP. A lot of farmers would prefer that to what Gove has planned for them. And then there are the chickens....
Red_in_SE8 said: » show previous quotes For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
The 'most serious crisis facing the UK since WW2' would happen if an elitist cabal overturns the result of the Referendum against the wishes of the majority.
37% is not a majority.
Consoling yourself by fiddling numbers would not change the severe nature of the political crisis it would cause.
Not if we had a further (binding) referendum. Especially as the electorate are now much better informed about the consequences of leaving.
Surely nothing to be afraid in that for the leavers?
We had a referendum. We were all warned the world would end if we left. We are only 'better informed' now in that we know that was bs.
Last 2 points are clearly only your opinion/views. Recent Polls suggest now that the electorate feel better informed they would not vote 'leave'. Hence the reluctance for a further vote?
I don't see why people feel better informed. Certainly the issues have been discussed to a great extent, which was scandalously lacking from both sides during the lead up to the referendum.
We cannot be well informed about what Brexit will eventually mean in reality as a deal hasnt been struck and far too many politicians are doing their best to make sure it doesn't happen. Including the Prime Minister with poor negotiations.
You don't feel better informed now? Well you were better informed than I was in June 2016 then. Presumably if I had asked you, you would have been able to explain me exactly what Euratom is, and why it is so important to health care. You would have instantly pointed out that the European Court of Human Rights is not an EU institution. You'd have explained to me what passporting is, as it affects City financial institutions, and what could happen if they lose it. You knew all about the VAT catch for importers that was revealed to the rest of us earlier this week. Of course you knew that the regions most pro-Brexit are precisely those most set to suffer the economic consequences, while London would suffer the least. You knew that the Medicines Agency would likely relocate to Amsterdam, costing us £500m in the process. You knew that the Civil Service would find itself managing more than 300 separate projects at this time in order to make Brexit happen. To name but a few of the things I didn't know, but you clearly did.
Wow, I wish you'd told me those things. And then, best of all, your reasons why, despite all that, you still planned to Vote Leave!
We knew that when we left the EU we would be leaving its institutional grip. As long as we are still in all that is visible are the consequences of leaving and not what life will be like after we have left. This will depend on how we leave of course and how long the uncertainties created by the long drawn out process last. After we leave we can do things better, such as Gove's proposed changes in agricultural practices to dump the corrupt CAP.
Or we could have joined the many other EU member states who are ready to push through reform of the CAP. A lot of farmers would prefer that to what Gove has planned for them. And then there are the chickens....
But this way a Minister in a government that got elected in an election I voted in and which I and others can vote out will be answerable directly to me and other voters for what they do. This is what a democracy means.
Red_in_SE8 said: » show previous quotes For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
The 'most serious crisis facing the UK since WW2' would happen if an elitist cabal overturns the result of the Referendum against the wishes of the majority.
37% is not a majority.
Consoling yourself by fiddling numbers would not change the severe nature of the political crisis it would cause.
Not if we had a further (binding) referendum. Especially as the electorate are now much better informed about the consequences of leaving.
Surely nothing to be afraid in that for the leavers?
We had a referendum. We were all warned the world would end if we left. We are only 'better informed' now in that we know that was bs.
Last 2 points are clearly only your opinion/views. Recent Polls suggest now that the electorate feel better informed they would not vote 'leave'. Hence the reluctance for a further vote?
I don't see why people feel better informed. Certainly the issues have been discussed to a great extent, which was scandalously lacking from both sides during the lead up to the referendum.
We cannot be well informed about what Brexit will eventually mean in reality as a deal hasnt been struck and far too many politicians are doing their best to make sure it doesn't happen. Including the Prime Minister with poor negotiations.
You don't feel better informed now? Well you were better informed than I was in June 2016 then. Presumably if I had asked you, you would have been able to explain me exactly what Euratom is, and why it is so important to health care. You would have instantly pointed out that the European Court of Human Rights is not an EU institution. You'd have explained to me what passporting is, as it affects City financial institutions, and what could happen if they lose it. You knew all about the VAT catch for importers that was revealed to the rest of us earlier this week. Of course you knew that the regions most pro-Brexit are precisely those most set to suffer the economic consequences, while London would suffer the least. You knew that the Medicines Agency would likely relocate to Amsterdam, costing us £500m in the process. You knew that the Civil Service would find itself managing more than 300 separate projects at this time in order to make Brexit happen. To name but a few of the things I didn't know, but you clearly did.
Wow, I wish you'd told me those things. And then, best of all, your reasons why, despite all that, you still planned to Vote Leave!
We knew that when we left the EU we would be leaving its institutional grip. As long as we are still in all that is visible are the consequences of leaving and not what life will be like after we have left. This will depend on how we leave of course and how long the uncertainties created by the long drawn out process last. After we leave we can do things better, such as Gove's proposed changes in agricultural practices to dump the corrupt CAP.
Doing things better is a start. Of course it begs the question what better means. The common agricultural policy has been accepted and approved by the UK government thus far. To say it is corrupt is open to debate, however if there is corruption the UK is part of it. Any other better prospects as a result of brexit?
I am avid remain but don't want another referendum, and that isn't speaking out of fear of losing. If a Parliamentary election was fought on brexit that would be different. As it is bring on brexit, and all the leavers out there can make it work. The term passive aggressive seems to have been invented just for me over this brexit issue.
I am avid remain but don't want another referendum, and that isn't speaking out of fear of losing. If a Parliamentary election was fought on brexit that would be different. As it is bring on brexit, and all the leavers out there can make it work. The term passive aggressive seems to have been invented just for me over this brexit issue.
But they won’t make it work, they’ll invent nonsense conspiracy theories as to why their hands were tied by the ‘elite’ despite all positions of responsibility around making it a success being filled by leavers.
Win win for brexiters. We leave the EU then they get to blame remainers for the disaster they created.
Comments
There are any number of examples in France of situations where, in the private sphere, individuals may (within the bounds of decency) sprout as much facial hair and/or dress as they wish, for whatever reasons that they desire.
So, provided that neither you nor your wife wish to work in the French public sector, you need not fear that you must abandon either your facial hair or her, no-doubt, delightful burqa.
If the UK was to elect a political party into power on a manifesto of enshrining an enforced secularism (which would, by definition also have to require the ending of the Established religions in the UK, and the removal of religiously appointed Peers and Bishops from the House of Lords - though I would prefer a Senate), I would be saddened, but would accept it as a valid political viewpoint, as long as it is not sectarian - the same rules would have to apply to all.
I would not call anyone a Nazi, if they suggested that that was a reason for voting for Brexit (I cannot speak for anyone else). Admittedly, I would absolutely disagree that that would make Brexit a "good idea".
I might be tempted, however, to ponder upon the motivations where anyone were to advocate that one particular group is targeted exclusively, because that is sectarian (and would, actually, be illegal here in Northern Ireland - I'm not suggesting that it is equivalent to requiring the wearing of a yellow star; but it is about making one community within society less valued than the rest, and this is not a good thing).
The only way to be fair, is to demand the same standards from everyone, though I do have my doubts that legislation is ever effective in terms of clothing (the Sumptuary Laws have shown that it rarely works out).
For what it is worth, I do not have a particular liking for laws enforcing secularism (though their erosion in Turkey under the Erdogan premiership does give pause for thought). I would prefer to live in a world where we could all accept each other for how we are, and not make assumptions based on dress, etc. (with the utterly dishonourable exception of Nazis).
But, the thing is, almost by definition, an EU which encompasses countries and peoples with very different views of freedoms, etc., as you have described, is incompatible with an EU, that you also described, that could introduce laws compelling all (let's admit it) Muslim men to shave their beards to find work. The first vision ensures that the second cannot happen.
And, dare I say it, within the UK there are plenty of examples of differing regional perspectives on any number of things on which Parliament legislates for the whole country, would these differences legitimate the dissolution of the Union, or even the break-up of England?
I have far from ‘given up’. The issue is that I have seen nothing of interest in this thread on which to comment.
Plus I have posted my thoughts on why I voted in the way I did on innumerable occasions, despite some of the comments I get in return.
Once there is something worth responding to, I will comment again.
» show previous quotes
For the most part this thread is a very informative and serious debate/commentary (more commentary these days since the few Intelligent Brexit voters we had have given up in the face of the overwhelming evidence, that has emerged since the Referendum, of what a disaster Brexit is for the U.K.) about the most serious crisis facing the U.K. since WW2. Brexit is far from a joke.
The 'most serious crisis facing the UK since WW2' would happen if an elitist cabal overturns the result of the Referendum against the wishes of the majority.
Over the next year this thread will overheat regularly as the cliff edge approaches and tempers rise and the debate becomes evermore vigorous. Some people will enjoy that, some people won't. Whatever, it does not change the fact that for a lot of people this thread, and its predecessor, was, is and will continue to be a useful resource for those who are interested and concerned about the impact that Brexit will have on the future of the UK.
Some posters will be more polite than others. We can make a pretty good guess into which camps the regular posters will fall. And yes, I know I am not in the polite camp when it comes to Brexit.
If you are a snowflake don't open the thread. If you don't like the pro Remain tone of the thread open the Brexit threads on the Millwall forums instead.
I don't think he was referring to you. More likely to the resident Spanner on the thread.
Anyway, while you are here, Chips old chap, I want to hear more about your cars. I presume you have bought British, so you started with a Morgan, and then traded it in for a Caterham? Or are you doing so well you kept the Morgan?
Or perhaps like the PM you persuaded yourself that a Jag is still British? Shall we call you, very affectionately, 2JagsChips ?
Surely nothing to be afraid in that for the leavers?
Even Juncker has given up the ghost.
We had a referendum. We were all warned the world would end if we left. We are only 'better informed' now in that we know that was bs.
We cannot be well informed about what Brexit will eventually mean in reality as a deal hasnt been struck and far too many politicians are doing their best to make sure it doesn't happen. Including the Prime Minister with poor negotiations.
Wow, I wish you'd told me those things. And then, best of all, your reasons why, despite all that, you still planned to Vote Leave!
After we leave we can do things better, such as Gove's proposed changes in agricultural practices to dump the corrupt CAP.
I am just letting that comment sink in for a moment. What this says is that the consequences of a decision we made we not - and are still not - known at the time we made the decision. But that those consequences will be made clear at some point in the future, at a time at which it will be too late to do anything about.
Here's an analogy. You're told there is a speed camera some way ahead. You can go as fast as you like and, in fact, choose exactly what to drive. But you're not told what the speed limit is on the road, until after you have passed the camera. Is that a scenario that seems attractive?
If not, then you might agree that not knowing the outcome of the decision that's been made until it's too late to do something about it is a pretty good description of the something that should be avoided.
If I didn't know the speed limit, but I knew there was a speed camera ahead, I would take evasive action (like, turning round), instead of blindly careering forward in the hope that between us, all the passengers in the car could pony up the dough for the fine.
Of course it begs the question what better means.
The common agricultural policy has been accepted and approved by the UK government thus far. To say it is corrupt is open to debate, however if there is corruption the UK is part of it.
Any other better prospects as a result of brexit?
If a Parliamentary election was fought on brexit that would be different.
As it is bring on brexit, and all the leavers out there can make it work.
The term passive aggressive seems to have been invented just for me over this brexit issue.
Win win for brexiters. We leave the EU then they get to blame remainers for the disaster they created.