The idea that the EU has been actively frustrating talks and not the UK's laughable and desperate posturing is entirely risible.
Considering we have now reached an agreement that the EU has always been putting forward and that the UK voted for as per the referendum campaigning.
The idea that the EU didn’t use the border as a bargaining chip and a means of getting the U.K. to define a solution that ore defined the outcome of the trade deal is laughable and desperate posturing and entirely risible.
Citizens rights was never a point of disagreement, just another bargaining chip to frustrate progress.
The idea that the EU has been actively frustrating talks and not the UK's laughable and desperate posturing is entirely risible.
Considering we have now reached an agreement that the EU has always been putting forward and that the UK voted for as per the referendum campaigning.
The idea that the EU didn’t use the border as a bargaining chip and a means of getting the U.K. to define a solution that ore defined the outcome of the trade deal is laughable and desperate posturing and entirely risible.
Citizens rights was never a point of disagreement, just another bargaining chip to frustrate progress.
Sorry Dippy but this is simply untrue. There is absolutely zero evidence the EU has been acting in the way you describe.
The idea that the EU has been actively frustrating talks and not the UK's laughable and desperate posturing is entirely risible.
Considering we have now reached an agreement that the EU has always been putting forward and that the UK voted for as per the referendum campaigning.
So democracy working well then.....
It seems like a very seasonal piece of fudge and I am pleased we have got to this stage. Now Mr Davis has a little more time and focus to work up some impact assessments.
Regulatory alignment until there is an FTA. Congratulations! Goodbye cliff edge, hello slippery slope! Perhaps this encourages businesses and financial services to simply check their parachutes rather than book the first flight. The options at the end remain: 1) abort the process, 2) Norway style deal 3) and a third option.
Instead of no deal, we have the possibility of indefinite maintenance of the status quo but without influence.
Anybody who still believes that the EU27 will offer an FTA that gives all the benefits with none of the obligations really hasn't paid attention. We either maintain the four freedoms by staying in the EEA or... well there is no alternative on offer.
A very British pragmatic solution as we downsize into our bungalow by the sea. And the DUP have had no influence whatsoever. But nobody needed to stoop to their level and point this out.
'Everyone born in NI retains EU citizenship'? That doesn't seem fair. I want to retain my EU citizenship. As, I am sure the people of Scotland do!
Well, quite, it isn't fair. Presumably they'll benefit from other stuff as well, like keeping EHICs and retaining those nice little blue badges on their peculiar number plates. And the people in the Republic will still get BBC TV without paying a licence fee. On the plus side, some advertisements will still say in the small print "not available in Northern Ireland".
The idea that the EU has been actively frustrating talks and not the UK's laughable and desperate posturing is entirely risible.
Considering we have now reached an agreement that the EU has always been putting forward and that the UK voted for as per the referendum campaigning.
The idea that the EU didn’t use the border as a bargaining chip and a means of getting the U.K. to define a solution that ore defined the outcome of the trade deal is laughable and desperate posturing and entirely risible.
Citizens rights was never a point of disagreement, just another bargaining chip to frustrate progress.
Are you saying that the EU27 doesn't have the right to define it's borders when dealing with a third party.
Or perhaps you think it would be healthy to leave the issue open so the DUP and Sinn Fein have maximum leverage to disrupt the process.
The reality is that the alt-right now have nowhere to go and no leverage. What's not to like?
This might even be enough to bring Sinn Fein back to Stormont but that's speculation - posters such as @NornIrishAddick would be far better placed to assess the preconditions for Stormont to start working again.
Just woken up. If brexit means control of borders then at first glance it looks like this bit of brexit has been abandoned. Good.
Let's hope it is just the start.....and that the rest of the nonsense that is Brexit is abandoned as the Brexit loonies realise there is no hiding from facts and reality in the outside world!
Seems like a lot of time, money and effort will have been spent on what will have no discernible difference on people's lives anyway. Hopefully the politicians and media can stop using the EU as a bogeyman/ scapegoat for problems and focus on real issues in the UK now, but I doubt that will happen.
Just woken up. If brexit means control of borders then at first glance it looks like this bit of brexit has been abandoned. Good.
Let's hope it is just the start.....and that the rest of the nonsense that is Brexit is abandoned as the Brexit loonies realise there is no hiding from facts and reality in the outside world!
Yes I agree but remain outvoted. My understanding is that once in the Republic any person can walk free and unchallenged from the EU to the UK. Also if something like iphones have a Ten Pound tariff between the EU and the UK then a container load of 350,000 phones driven from Dublin to Belfast makes 3.5 million Quid a time. Taking back control of the border is now given up. Brexit voters may now feel betrayed but it is indeed a first step and if my interpretation is correct I am pleased. Smugglers will be pleased too. Go to Ireland if you want to get rich.
'Everyone born in NI retains EU citizenship'? That doesn't seem fair. I want to retain my EU citizenship. As, I am sure the people of Scotland do!
Is this for real?
Everyone born in Northern Ireland has the right to choose British or Irish citizenship, or both. I guess what they are saying is that those from the North who choose to hold Irish citizenship (which presumably as a direct consequence of Brexit will now be the majority save for the last remaining staunch DUP type nutters) will remain EU Citizens.
'Everyone born in NI retains EU citizenship'? That doesn't seem fair. I want to retain my EU citizenship. As, I am sure the people of Scotland do!
Under the Good Friday Agreement people born in Northern Ireland can decide to be British, Irish or both - in return, Ireland agreed to give up its constitutional claim to the island of Ireland (part of the reason that the referendum on the GFA was in both jurisdictions).
Clearly a significant proportion would never dream of holding dual status and, should there be no agreement on leaving the EU, there would be a degree of local difficulty if the UK Government were to decide that the Ireland Act no longer applied and all EU citizens should be treated the same, with requirements to register status, etc.
'Everyone born in NI retains EU citizenship'? That doesn't seem fair. I want to retain my EU citizenship. As, I am sure the people of Scotland do!
Well, quite, it isn't fair. Presumably they'll benefit from other stuff as well, like keeping EHICs and retaining those nice little blue badges on their peculiar number plates. And the people in the Republic will still get BBC TV without paying a licence fee. On the plus side, some advertisements will still say in the small print "not available in Northern Ireland".
To say nothing of Amazon refusing to deliver some items (because they assume that their packages will travel by air).
'Everyone born in NI retains EU citizenship'? That doesn't seem fair. I want to retain my EU citizenship. As, I am sure the people of Scotland do!
Nothing changes. If you, your parents or grandparents were born on the island of Ireland then you are eligible to apply for an Irish passport.
One assumes that has been the case since partition.
Well not quite.
Should this headline prove factual then someone from NI who might for sake of argument be a staunch unionist and baulk at the idea of having an ROI passport would still hold their British passport (a nice dark blue one) and still be able to claim eu citizenship.
I’m thinking of taking this through the European courts as I’m being unfairly treated. I want to remain an eu citizen.
I have a lapsed British passport (born in Erith) and a current Irish passport due to an Irish mother. I am very lucky that I can be an EU or Irish citizen rather than a British subject. The good fortune is about personal status in relation to individual rights not because the UK is bad per se, but I do have some issues with my constitutional status in this country. The way to deal with this is to try to help political change by use of the vote to get rid of the House of Lords and introduce proportional representation...and to eventually re join the EU.
'Everyone born in NI retains EU citizenship'? That doesn't seem fair. I want to retain my EU citizenship. As, I am sure the people of Scotland do!
Nothing changes. If you, your parents or grandparents were born on the island of Ireland then you are eligible to apply for an Irish passport.
That assumes that staunch unionists want to carry around a ROI passport of course.
I was born in Europe - can I apply for EU citizenship? My sons were born in the EU - likewise do they retain the EU passport?
Yes. You can do this - in Cyprus for you and your family. You'll have to buy a house or other investment for €2mn though. This is very popular among Russians for some reason . Malta is cheaper I think but you actually have to live there for a year which is not such a pleasing thought. But, then you get to roam the EU unhindered and don't actually have to go back to your island of citizenship ever again if you don't want to.
It has always surprised me that English Premier League football teams don't use this cunning wheeze (what's €2mn to them after all?) to get, say, South American players into the UK who would not otherwise qualify for a work visa.
I have a lapsed British passport (born in Erith) and a current Irish passport due to an Irish mother. I am very lucky that I can be an EU or Irish citizen rather than a British subject. The good fortune is about personal status in relation to individual rights not because the UK is bad per se, but I do have some issues with my constitutional status in this country. The way to deal with this is to try to help political change by use of the vote to get rid of the House of Lords and introduce proportional representation...and to eventually re join the EU.
'Everyone born in NI retains EU citizenship'? That doesn't seem fair. I want to retain my EU citizenship. As, I am sure the people of Scotland do!
Nothing changes. If you, your parents or grandparents were born on the island of Ireland then you are eligible to apply for an Irish passport.
That assumes that staunch unionists want to carry around a ROI passport of course.
I was born in Europe - can I apply for EU citizenship? My sons were born in the EU - likewise do they retain the EU passport?
Yes. You can do this - in Cyprus for you and your family. You'll have to buy a house or other investment for €2mn though. This is very popular among Russians for some reason . Malta is cheaper I think but you actually have to live there for a year which is not such a pleasing thought. But, then you get to roam the EU unhindered and don't actually have to go back to your island of citizenship ever again if you don't want to.
It has always surprised me that English Premier League football teams don't use this cunning wheeze (what's €2mn to them after all?) to get, say, South American players into the UK who would not otherwise qualify for a work visa.
'Everyone born in NI retains EU citizenship'? That doesn't seem fair. I want to retain my EU citizenship. As, I am sure the people of Scotland do!
Is this for real?
I'm not sure, but if it is then it's total bollox. I too want to be able to move freely within the EU please!
It also goes against the DUP dinosaurs in them not wanting anything different in NI to the rest of the UK when it suits them.
Fixed that for you.
I would direct your attention to Ian Paisley MP, who has been very outspoken in favour of Brexit but has also encouraged individuals to apply for Irish passports.
I would enjoy to continue to be a citizen of Europe and have the freedom to travel, work and live across the continent, even if we do lose the benefits of being in the EU such as health cover, transit insurance, mobile roaming, card fees and other protections we have fought for. It would be a shame to at least lose these basic privileges considering the close ties we have developed in Europe just because the Tories insist on pandering to the far-right.
I have a lapsed British passport (born in Erith) and a current Irish passport due to an Irish mother. I am very lucky that I can be an EU or Irish citizen rather than a British subject. The good fortune is about personal status in relation to individual rights not because the UK is bad per se, but I do have some issues with my constitutional status in this country. The way to deal with this is to try to help political change by use of the vote to get rid of the House of Lords and introduce proportional representation...and to eventually re join the EU.
No one (save in very specific circumstances) is a British Subject anymore, stop with that nonsense.
I have a lapsed British passport (born in Erith) and a current Irish passport due to an Irish mother. I am very lucky that I can be an EU or Irish citizen rather than a British subject. The good fortune is about personal status in relation to individual rights not because the UK is bad per se, but I do have some issues with my constitutional status in this country. The way to deal with this is to try to help political change by use of the vote to get rid of the House of Lords and introduce proportional representation...and to eventually re join the EU.
No one (save in very specific circumstances) is a British Subject anymore, stop with that nonsense.
You are right. Apologies. The British Nationality Act changed things in 1981. It is the nature of a Monarchy that I ought to get to grips with. I can even see some advantages in a Monarchy in that the Armed forces and the Judiciary are technically beholden to the Monarch rather than to the PM. Would still prefer a republic though.
Comments
Citizens rights was never a point of disagreement, just another bargaining chip to frustrate progress.
It seems like a very seasonal piece of fudge and I am pleased we have got to this stage. Now Mr Davis has a little more time and focus to work up some impact assessments.
Perhaps this encourages businesses and financial services to simply check their parachutes rather than book the first flight. The options at the end remain:
1) abort the process,
2) Norway style deal
3) and a third option.
Instead of no deal, we have the possibility of indefinite maintenance of the status quo but without influence.
Anybody who still believes that the EU27 will offer an FTA that gives all the benefits with none of the obligations really hasn't paid attention. We either maintain the four freedoms by staying in the EEA or... well there is no alternative on offer.
A very British pragmatic solution as we downsize into our bungalow by the sea. And the DUP have had no influence whatsoever. But nobody needed to stoop to their level and point this out.
If brexit means control of borders then at first glance it looks like this bit of brexit has been abandoned.
Good.
On the plus side, some advertisements will still say in the small print "not available in Northern Ireland".
Or perhaps you think it would be healthy to leave the issue open so the DUP and Sinn Fein have maximum leverage to disrupt the process.
The reality is that the alt-right now have nowhere to go and no leverage. What's not to like?
This might even be enough to bring Sinn Fein back to Stormont but that's speculation - posters such as @NornIrishAddick would be far better placed to assess the preconditions for Stormont to start working again.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/dec/08/brexit-border-eu-theresa-may-juncker-tusk-markets-live
My understanding is that once in the Republic any person can walk free and unchallenged from the EU to the UK.
Also if something like iphones have a Ten Pound tariff between the EU and the UK then a container load of 350,000 phones driven from Dublin to Belfast makes 3.5 million Quid a time.
Taking back control of the border is now given up. Brexit voters may now feel betrayed but it is indeed a first step and if my interpretation is correct I am pleased.
Smugglers will be pleased too. Go to Ireland if you want to get rich.
It also goes against the DUP dinosaurs in them not wanting anything different in NI to the rest of the UK.
One assumes that has been the case since partition.
I was born in Europe - can I apply for EU citizenship? My sons were born in the EU - likewise do they retain the EU passport?
Clearly a significant proportion would never dream of holding dual status and, should there be no agreement on leaving the EU, there would be a degree of local difficulty if the UK Government were to decide that the Ireland Act no longer applied and all EU citizens should be treated the same, with requirements to register status, etc.
Not that I'm bitter, you understand.
Should this headline prove factual then someone from NI who might for sake of argument be a staunch unionist and baulk at the idea of having an ROI passport would still hold their British passport (a nice dark blue one) and still be able to claim eu citizenship.
I’m thinking of taking this through the European courts as I’m being unfairly treated. I want to remain an eu citizen.
I am very lucky that I can be an EU or Irish citizen rather than a British subject. The good fortune is about personal status in relation to individual rights not because the UK is bad per se, but I do have some issues with my constitutional status in this country.
The way to deal with this is to try to help political change by use of the vote to get rid of the House of Lords and introduce proportional representation...and to eventually re join the EU.
It has always surprised me that English Premier League football teams don't use this cunning wheeze (what's €2mn to them after all?) to get, say, South American players into the UK who would not otherwise qualify for a work visa.
I would direct your attention to Ian Paisley MP, who has been very outspoken in favour of Brexit but has also encouraged individuals to apply for Irish passports.
It is the nature of a Monarchy that I ought to get to grips with.
I can even see some advantages in a Monarchy in that the Armed forces and the Judiciary are technically beholden to the Monarch rather than to the PM.
Would still prefer a republic though.