A lot of people are jumping to a lot of conclusions are here. The most important part was always going to be the trade negotiations. Let's wait and see what we can negotiate here. One thing continues, most Remainers continue be arrogant and pompous, and think anyone who is a Leaver is dumb and stupid.
100% agree. Think it's why many of the leave orientated posters have disappeared as noted by @ShootersHillGuru. It's made the thread a bit sterile. I think the country is coming together with Theresa May tories and kier starmer labour not a million miles apart. Both remain very vague.
A lot of people are jumping to a lot of conclusions are here. The most important part was always going to be the trade negotiations. Let's wait and see what we can negotiate here. One thing continues, most Remainers continue be arrogant and pompous, and think anyone who is a Leaver is dumb and stupid.
100% agree. Think it's why many of the leave orientated posters have disappeared as noted by @ShootersHillGuru. It's made the thread a bit sterile. I think the country is coming together with Theresa May tories and kier starmer labour not a million miles apart. Both remain very vague.
So are you in the arrogant and pompous camp, or the dumb and stupid camp?
In short, this marks the end of the hard Brexit dream. Realpolitik prevails - as we knew it would 18 months ago. So all the bluster since has really just been sound and fury, signifying - effectively - nothing. Mog, Farage, Redwood et all will not be happy today which means that I will be. Independence Day indeed.
@Fiiish told me I was delusional thinking Remainers said Brexit voters dreamed of a hard Brexit.
If nothing is different between the UK and the ROI doesn't this mean that the UK is de facto within the EU? As far as I can tell now brexit is coming down to the UK not paying for internal enterprises in the EU, regional regeneration for example, or research and development of stuff. The detail will be about the EHIC card or stuff like that I suppose because forgive me, what is there now to discuss regarding trade? As in we move on to phase 2 which is about trade relationship? The trading arrangements via the ROI means that the trading arrangements with the EU are also already established, what will they talk about? Am I missing something blindingly obvious?
In short, this marks the end of the hard Brexit dream. Realpolitik prevails - as we knew it would 18 months ago. So all the bluster since has really just been sound and fury, signifying - effectively - nothing. Mog, Farage, Redwood et all will not be happy today which means that I will be. Independence Day indeed.
Fiiish told me I was delusional thinking Remainers said Brexit voters dreamed of a hard Brexit.
And yet that's not even what has even been implied here. 0/10, try again.
I am reposting a post I made 2 months ago which might explain why me and other leavers are not on this thread. It has been obvious for a long time that the remainer led Tory Government would sell out the 17m Leave voters. Today's agreement capitulates on all the key things that leaving the EU would mean and confirms what I wrote below. They are selling out the 17m and the political consequences of this will happen down the line.
'The UK is being slowly suckered into a very bad deal with the EU. May has conceded publicly and privately that the UK will pay about 40b Euros for effectively a transition deal, ie a prolongation of UK membership of the EU until at least 2021. In exchange the UK has received precisely nothing except vague assurances that a trade deal will be discussed at some point, which we all knew would have to happen anyway.
In the meantime there is nobody in the EU or in the German government (the only one that really matters) who has said anything other than that the 4 freedoms are indivisible, ie that continued membership of or access to the single market will involve continued free movement of labour and jurusdiction by the ECJ.
So, we have committed to pay a large sum of money for what? In order to be told at some future point, when it suits the EU and after France and Germany have been able to lure businesses to their countries because of the indecision they themselves have prolonged, that access to the single market will mean effectively continued control by the EU under another name.
In the 4 years during which this charade is being played out, the Remainers who dominate political discourse in this country will continue to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to demoralise those who supported Brexit. Look, they will say, we have lost money, we have a worse trade deal and no extra sovereignty, is it worth leaving the EU for this?
Those of us who want to see the referendum result carried out need to realise that the choice is not between a bad deal and no deal, but between Brexit and no Brexit.
If nothing is different between the UK and the ROI doesn't this mean that the UK is de facto within the EU? As far as I can tell now brexit is coming down to the UK not paying for internal enterprises in the EU, regional regeneration for example, or research and development of stuff. The detail will be about the EHIC card or stuff like that I suppose because forgive me, what is there now to discuss regarding trade? As in we move on to phase 2 which is about trade relationship? The trading arrangements via the ROI means that the trading arrangements with the EU are also already established, what will they talk about? Am I missing something blindingly obvious?
Yes. I think there are some technicalities to sort out.
Not being in the EU means for a start the UK will not have to deal with the dilemma when EU fiscal union gets underway. Join the Euro or be sidelined and shat on from a great height by the benevolent masters of the EU.
It allows us to decide which internal enterprises we choose to fund in the UK, regional regeneration in the UK and research and development in the UK.
Did we not pay for this already from our own EU contributions? We will at least save the banking and exchange rate costs of the same money moving back and forth across the Channel in Euros and Sterling, or am I missing something blindingly obvious?
Or are you saying we will lose out not paying £9bn for the unaccounted vanity projects of various municipalities across the EU?
A lot of people are jumping to a lot of conclusions are here. The most important part was always going to be the trade negotiations. Let's wait and see what we can negotiate here. One thing continues, most Remainers continue be arrogant and pompous, and think anyone who is a Leaver is dumb and stupid.
100% agree. Think it's why many of the leave orientated posters have disappeared as noted by @ShootersHillGuru. It's made the thread a bit sterile. I think the country is coming together with Theresa May tories and kier starmer labour not a million miles apart. Both remain very vague.
Too soon to make much comment yet. The trade negotiations are, as they were always going to be, crucial.
On a tangent, I came across something today of which I was completely unaware. The Canadian/EU trade deal (CETA), agreed but still to be ratified, is often held up as one of our choices for the future, as is the Norway model.
And yet, apparently, a couple of months ago, Angela Merkel was prepared to put the many years of negotiation with Canada at risk, by assuring the Greens that she would drop ratification of CETA if they sided with her in a coalition!
I am astonished how unprincipled this is. Equivalent, probably worse, then May’s agreement with the DUP.
I am reposting a post I made 2 months ago which might explain why me and other leavers are not on this thread. It has been obvious for a long time that the remainer led Tory Government would sell out the 17m Leave voters. Today's agreement capitulates on all the key things that leaving the EU would mean and confirms what I wrote below. They are selling out the 17m and the political consequences of this will happen down the line.
'The UK is being slowly suckered into a very bad deal with the EU. May has conceded publicly and privately that the UK will pay about 40b Euros for effectively a transition deal, ie a prolongation of UK membership of the EU until at least 2021. In exchange the UK has received precisely nothing except vague assurances that a trade deal will be discussed at some point, which we all knew would have to happen anyway.
In the meantime there is nobody in the EU or in the German government (the only one that really matters) who has said anything other than that the 4 freedoms are indivisible, ie that continued membership of or access to the single market will involve continued free movement of labour and jurusdiction by the ECJ.
So, we have committed to pay a large sum of money for what? In order to be told at some future point, when it suits the EU and after France and Germany have been able to lure businesses to their countries because of the indecision they themselves have prolonged, that access to the single market will mean effectively continued control by the EU under another name.
In the 4 years during which this charade is being played out, the Remainers who dominate political discourse in this country will continue to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to demoralise those who supported Brexit. Look, they will say, we have lost money, we have a worse trade deal and no extra sovereignty, is it worth leaving the EU for this?
Those of us who want to see the referendum result carried out need to realise that the choice is not between a bad deal and no deal, but between Brexit and no Brexit.
So you left the thread because all the things that Remainers warned would happen...have happened?
Oh, and how have the Tories sold out the third of the voters who voted for Brexit? They are just following what the Leave campaign pledged in the first place.
Also, Remainers do not dominate the discourse at all. The government is controlled by the hard right Brexit wing of the Tory party, with Remainer Theresa a leader in name only. The media is controlled by right-wing Brexiteers. Politicians who support blocking Brexit face harrassment, abuse or worse. A Remain-supporting MP was murdered by a Brexiter.
I am reposting a post I made 2 months ago which might explain why me and other leavers are not on this thread. It has been obvious for a long time that the remainer led Tory Government would sell out the 17m Leave voters. Today's agreement capitulates on all the key things that leaving the EU would mean and confirms what I wrote below. They are selling out the 17m and the political consequences of this will happen down the line.
'The UK is being slowly suckered into a very bad deal with the EU. May has conceded publicly and privately that the UK will pay about 40b Euros for effectively a transition deal, ie a prolongation of UK membership of the EU until at least 2021. In exchange the UK has received precisely nothing except vague assurances that a trade deal will be discussed at some point, which we all knew would have to happen anyway.
In the meantime there is nobody in the EU or in the German government (the only one that really matters) who has said anything other than that the 4 freedoms are indivisible, ie that continued membership of or access to the single market will involve continued free movement of labour and jurusdiction by the ECJ.
So, we have committed to pay a large sum of money for what? In order to be told at some future point, when it suits the EU and after France and Germany have been able to lure businesses to their countries because of the indecision they themselves have prolonged, that access to the single market will mean effectively continued control by the EU under another name.
In the 4 years during which this charade is being played out, the Remainers who dominate political discourse in this country will continue to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to demoralise those who supported Brexit. Look, they will say, we have lost money, we have a worse trade deal and no extra sovereignty, is it worth leaving the EU for this?
Those of us who want to see the referendum result carried out need to realise that the choice is not between a bad deal and no deal, but between Brexit and no Brexit.
So you left the thread because all the things that Remainers warned would happen...have happened?
Oh, and how have the Tories sold out the third of the voters who voted for Brexit? They are just following what the Leave campaign pledged in the first place.
Also, Remainers do not dominate the discourse at all. The government is controlled by the hard right Brexit wing of the Tory party, with Remainer Theresa a leader in name only. The media is controlled by right-wing Brexiteers. Politicians who support blocking Brexit face harrassment, abuse or worse. A Remain-supporting MP was murdered by a Brexiter.
If Leavers run everything-how come we are not leaving?
If nothing is different between the UK and the ROI doesn't this mean that the UK is de facto within the EU? As far as I can tell now brexit is coming down to the UK not paying for internal enterprises in the EU, regional regeneration for example, or research and development of stuff. The detail will be about the EHIC card or stuff like that I suppose because forgive me, what is there now to discuss regarding trade? As in we move on to phase 2 which is about trade relationship? The trading arrangements via the ROI means that the trading arrangements with the EU are also already established, what will they talk about? Am I missing something blindingly obvious?
Yes. I think there are some technicalities to sort out.
Not being in the EU means for a start the UK will not have to deal with the dilemma when EU fiscal union gets underway. Join the Euro or be sidelined and shat on from a great height by the benevolent masters of the EU.
It allows us to decide which internal enterprises we choose to fund in the UK, regional regeneration in the UK and research and development in the UK.
Did we not pay for this already from our own EU contributions? We will at least save the banking and exchange rate costs of the same money moving back and forth across the Channel in Euros and Sterling, or am I missing something blindingly obvious?
Or are you saying we will lose out not paying £9bn for the unaccounted vanity projects of various municipalities across the EU?
I am feeling my way, but astonishingly you and I appear to agree about something here, although you and I see it differently.
We both seem to agree that the UK won't pay for what you describe as unaccounted vanity projects of various municipalities across the EU (as I say I would probably see most of those projects in a very positive light), and instead pay solely for (vanity?) projects within the UK. Indeed you and I have very similar feeling about the Olympic Stadium/West Ham vanity project which the UK managed to make happen all by itself.
So if that is what brexit comes down to I am beginning to get it, if not like it.
The much trumpeted big issues: border control, laws, striking our own free trade deals (now restricted by the customs union I suppose), and to an extent payments to the EU have seemingly been surrendered today.
And thankfully, sincerely, there seems to now be some comfort for EU nationals in the UK, and UK nationals in the EU, can anybody decry that?
We are left as you say with technicalities to sort out, and the fiscal union bit will not be an issue, not least because the existence of the pound always kept that at arms length. We are probably in Blue Passport/bendy banana territory now, as it appears the issues that matter have been (very sadly from my personal point of view) decided.
I am reposting a post I made 2 months ago which might explain why me and other leavers are not on this thread. It has been obvious for a long time that the remainer led Tory Government would sell out the 17m Leave voters. Today's agreement capitulates on all the key things that leaving the EU would mean and confirms what I wrote below. They are selling out the 17m and the political consequences of this will happen down the line.
'The UK is being slowly suckered into a very bad deal with the EU. May has conceded publicly and privately that the UK will pay about 40b Euros for effectively a transition deal, ie a prolongation of UK membership of the EU until at least 2021. In exchange the UK has received precisely nothing except vague assurances that a trade deal will be discussed at some point, which we all knew would have to happen anyway.
In the meantime there is nobody in the EU or in the German government (the only one that really matters) who has said anything other than that the 4 freedoms are indivisible, ie that continued membership of or access to the single market will involve continued free movement of labour and jurusdiction by the ECJ.
So, we have committed to pay a large sum of money for what? In order to be told at some future point, when it suits the EU and after France and Germany have been able to lure businesses to their countries because of the indecision they themselves have prolonged, that access to the single market will mean effectively continued control by the EU under another name.
In the 4 years during which this charade is being played out, the Remainers who dominate political discourse in this country will continue to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to demoralise those who supported Brexit. Look, they will say, we have lost money, we have a worse trade deal and no extra sovereignty, is it worth leaving the EU for this?
Those of us who want to see the referendum result carried out need to realise that the choice is not between a bad deal and no deal, but between Brexit and no Brexit.
So you left the thread because all the things that Remainers warned would happen...have happened?
Oh, and how have the Tories sold out the third of the voters who voted for Brexit? They are just following what the Leave campaign pledged in the first place.
Also, Remainers do not dominate the discourse at all. The government is controlled by the hard right Brexit wing of the Tory party, with Remainer Theresa a leader in name only. The media is controlled by right-wing Brexiteers. Politicians who support blocking Brexit face harrassment, abuse or worse. A Remain-supporting MP was murdered by a Brexiter.
If Leavers run everything-how come we are not leaving?
If by the end of 2019 the EU has removed the UK from its membership then we would have left.
I am reposting a post I made 2 months ago which might explain why me and other leavers are not on this thread. It has been obvious for a long time that the remainer led Tory Government would sell out the 17m Leave voters. Today's agreement capitulates on all the key things that leaving the EU would mean and confirms what I wrote below. They are selling out the 17m and the political consequences of this will happen down the line.
'The UK is being slowly suckered into a very bad deal with the EU. May has conceded publicly and privately that the UK will pay about 40b Euros for effectively a transition deal, ie a prolongation of UK membership of the EU until at least 2021. In exchange the UK has received precisely nothing except vague assurances that a trade deal will be discussed at some point, which we all knew would have to happen anyway.
In the meantime there is nobody in the EU or in the German government (the only one that really matters) who has said anything other than that the 4 freedoms are indivisible, ie that continued membership of or access to the single market will involve continued free movement of labour and jurusdiction by the ECJ.
So, we have committed to pay a large sum of money for what? In order to be told at some future point, when it suits the EU and after France and Germany have been able to lure businesses to their countries because of the indecision they themselves have prolonged, that access to the single market will mean effectively continued control by the EU under another name.
In the 4 years during which this charade is being played out, the Remainers who dominate political discourse in this country will continue to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to demoralise those who supported Brexit. Look, they will say, we have lost money, we have a worse trade deal and no extra sovereignty, is it worth leaving the EU for this?
Those of us who want to see the referendum result carried out need to realise that the choice is not between a bad deal and no deal, but between Brexit and no Brexit.
So you left the thread because all the things that Remainers warned would happen...have happened?
Oh, and how have the Tories sold out the third of the voters who voted for Brexit? They are just following what the Leave campaign pledged in the first place.
Also, Remainers do not dominate the discourse at all. The government is controlled by the hard right Brexit wing of the Tory party, with Remainer Theresa a leader in name only. The media is controlled by right-wing Brexiteers. Politicians who support blocking Brexit face harrassment, abuse or worse. A Remain-supporting MP was murdered by a Brexiter.
If Leavers run everything-how come we are not leaving?
If by the end of 2019 the EU has removed the UK from its membership then we would have left.
Agreed - the 28 will definitely become 27 and the will of the people (in a binary vote) will have been honoured.
I really don't see what these Bremoaners are getting so het up about.
I am reposting a post I made 2 months ago which might explain why me and other leavers are not on this thread. It has been obvious for a long time that the remainer led Tory Government would sell out the 17m Leave voters. Today's agreement capitulates on all the key things that leaving the EU would mean and confirms what I wrote below. They are selling out the 17m and the political consequences of this will happen down the line.
'The UK is being slowly suckered into a very bad deal with the EU. May has conceded publicly and privately that the UK will pay about 40b Euros for effectively a transition deal, ie a prolongation of UK membership of the EU until at least 2021. In exchange the UK has received precisely nothing except vague assurances that a trade deal will be discussed at some point, which we all knew would have to happen anyway.
In the meantime there is nobody in the EU or in the German government (the only one that really matters) who has said anything other than that the 4 freedoms are indivisible, ie that continued membership of or access to the single market will involve continued free movement of labour and jurusdiction by the ECJ.
So, we have committed to pay a large sum of money for what? In order to be told at some future point, when it suits the EU and after France and Germany have been able to lure businesses to their countries because of the indecision they themselves have prolonged, that access to the single market will mean effectively continued control by the EU under another name.
In the 4 years during which this charade is being played out, the Remainers who dominate political discourse in this country will continue to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to demoralise those who supported Brexit. Look, they will say, we have lost money, we have a worse trade deal and no extra sovereignty, is it worth leaving the EU for this?
Those of us who want to see the referendum result carried out need to realise that the choice is not between a bad deal and no deal, but between Brexit and no Brexit.
So you left the thread because all the things that Remainers warned would happen...have happened?
Oh, and how have the Tories sold out the third of the voters who voted for Brexit? They are just following what the Leave campaign pledged in the first place.
Also, Remainers do not dominate the discourse at all. The government is controlled by the hard right Brexit wing of the Tory party, with Remainer Theresa a leader in name only. The media is controlled by right-wing Brexiteers. Politicians who support blocking Brexit face harrassment, abuse or worse. A Remain-supporting MP was murdered by a Brexiter.
If Leavers run everything-how come we are not leaving?
If by the end of 2019 the EU has removed the UK from its membership then we would have left.
In name only if we are still having to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court and accept rules and laws from the EU. The referendum quaetion was not-we would like to leave the EU but carry on as if we are still a member.
I am reposting a post I made 2 months ago which might explain why me and other leavers are not on this thread. It has been obvious for a long time that the remainer led Tory Government would sell out the 17m Leave voters. Today's agreement capitulates on all the key things that leaving the EU would mean and confirms what I wrote below. They are selling out the 17m and the political consequences of this will happen down the line.
'The UK is being slowly suckered into a very bad deal with the EU. May has conceded publicly and privately that the UK will pay about 40b Euros for effectively a transition deal, ie a prolongation of UK membership of the EU until at least 2021. In exchange the UK has received precisely nothing except vague assurances that a trade deal will be discussed at some point, which we all knew would have to happen anyway.
In the meantime there is nobody in the EU or in the German government (the only one that really matters) who has said anything other than that the 4 freedoms are indivisible, ie that continued membership of or access to the single market will involve continued free movement of labour and jurusdiction by the ECJ.
So, we have committed to pay a large sum of money for what? In order to be told at some future point, when it suits the EU and after France and Germany have been able to lure businesses to their countries because of the indecision they themselves have prolonged, that access to the single market will mean effectively continued control by the EU under another name.
In the 4 years during which this charade is being played out, the Remainers who dominate political discourse in this country will continue to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to demoralise those who supported Brexit. Look, they will say, we have lost money, we have a worse trade deal and no extra sovereignty, is it worth leaving the EU for this?
Those of us who want to see the referendum result carried out need to realise that the choice is not between a bad deal and no deal, but between Brexit and no Brexit.
So you left the thread because all the things that Remainers warned would happen...have happened?
Oh, and how have the Tories sold out the third of the voters who voted for Brexit? They are just following what the Leave campaign pledged in the first place.
Also, Remainers do not dominate the discourse at all. The government is controlled by the hard right Brexit wing of the Tory party, with Remainer Theresa a leader in name only. The media is controlled by right-wing Brexiteers. Politicians who support blocking Brexit face harrassment, abuse or worse. A Remain-supporting MP was murdered by a Brexiter.
If Leavers run everything-how come we are not leaving?
If by the end of 2019 the EU has removed the UK from its membership then we would have left.
In name only if we are still having to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court and accept rules and laws from the EU. The referendum quaetion was not-we would like to leave the EU but carry on as if we are still a member.
No it wasn't I agree - the question was should the UK remain a member of the EU or should the UK Leave the EU. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm nothing but persistent so I will ask you the same question for the umpteeth time (I promise not to ask it again) - what percentage of the 52% who voted to 'Leave the EU' do you believe share your version of Brexit?
I am reposting a post I made 2 months ago which might explain why me and other leavers are not on this thread. It has been obvious for a long time that the remainer led Tory Government would sell out the 17m Leave voters. Today's agreement capitulates on all the key things that leaving the EU would mean and confirms what I wrote below. They are selling out the 17m and the political consequences of this will happen down the line.
'The UK is being slowly suckered into a very bad deal with the EU. May has conceded publicly and privately that the UK will pay about 40b Euros for effectively a transition deal, ie a prolongation of UK membership of the EU until at least 2021. In exchange the UK has received precisely nothing except vague assurances that a trade deal will be discussed at some point, which we all knew would have to happen anyway.
In the meantime there is nobody in the EU or in the German government (the only one that really matters) who has said anything other than that the 4 freedoms are indivisible, ie that continued membership of or access to the single market will involve continued free movement of labour and jurusdiction by the ECJ.
So, we have committed to pay a large sum of money for what? In order to be told at some future point, when it suits the EU and after France and Germany have been able to lure businesses to their countries because of the indecision they themselves have prolonged, that access to the single market will mean effectively continued control by the EU under another name.
In the 4 years during which this charade is being played out, the Remainers who dominate political discourse in this country will continue to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to demoralise those who supported Brexit. Look, they will say, we have lost money, we have a worse trade deal and no extra sovereignty, is it worth leaving the EU for this?
Those of us who want to see the referendum result carried out need to realise that the choice is not between a bad deal and no deal, but between Brexit and no Brexit.
So you left the thread because all the things that Remainers warned would happen...have happened?
Oh, and how have the Tories sold out the third of the voters who voted for Brexit? They are just following what the Leave campaign pledged in the first place.
Also, Remainers do not dominate the discourse at all. The government is controlled by the hard right Brexit wing of the Tory party, with Remainer Theresa a leader in name only. The media is controlled by right-wing Brexiteers. Politicians who support blocking Brexit face harrassment, abuse or worse. A Remain-supporting MP was murdered by a Brexiter.
If Leavers run everything-how come we are not leaving?
If by the end of 2019 the EU has removed the UK from its membership then we would have left.
In name only if we are still having to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court and accept rules and laws from the EU. The referendum quaetion was not-we would like to leave the EU but carry on as if we are still a member.
Quite - it's simply asked if we should leave or not, and we are.
If you inferred some other outcome from that simple question then that's on you.
I am reposting a post I made 2 months ago which might explain why me and other leavers are not on this thread. It has been obvious for a long time that the remainer led Tory Government would sell out the 17m Leave voters. Today's agreement capitulates on all the key things that leaving the EU would mean and confirms what I wrote below. They are selling out the 17m and the political consequences of this will happen down the line.
'The UK is being slowly suckered into a very bad deal with the EU. May has conceded publicly and privately that the UK will pay about 40b Euros for effectively a transition deal, ie a prolongation of UK membership of the EU until at least 2021. In exchange the UK has received precisely nothing except vague assurances that a trade deal will be discussed at some point, which we all knew would have to happen anyway.
In the meantime there is nobody in the EU or in the German government (the only one that really matters) who has said anything other than that the 4 freedoms are indivisible, ie that continued membership of or access to the single market will involve continued free movement of labour and jurusdiction by the ECJ.
So, we have committed to pay a large sum of money for what? In order to be told at some future point, when it suits the EU and after France and Germany have been able to lure businesses to their countries because of the indecision they themselves have prolonged, that access to the single market will mean effectively continued control by the EU under another name.
In the 4 years during which this charade is being played out, the Remainers who dominate political discourse in this country will continue to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to demoralise those who supported Brexit. Look, they will say, we have lost money, we have a worse trade deal and no extra sovereignty, is it worth leaving the EU for this?
Those of us who want to see the referendum result carried out need to realise that the choice is not between a bad deal and no deal, but between Brexit and no Brexit.
So you left the thread because all the things that Remainers warned would happen...have happened?
Oh, and how have the Tories sold out the third of the voters who voted for Brexit? They are just following what the Leave campaign pledged in the first place.
Also, Remainers do not dominate the discourse at all. The government is controlled by the hard right Brexit wing of the Tory party, with Remainer Theresa a leader in name only. The media is controlled by right-wing Brexiteers. Politicians who support blocking Brexit face harrassment, abuse or worse. A Remain-supporting MP was murdered by a Brexiter.
If Leavers run everything-how come we are not leaving?
If by the end of 2019 the EU has removed the UK from its membership then we would have left.
In name only if we are still having to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court and accept rules and laws from the EU. The referendum quaetion was not-we would like to leave the EU but carry on as if we are still a member.
Quite - it's simply asked if we should leave or not, and we are.
If you inferred some other outcome from that simple question then that's on you.
Very true. I didn't just consider the two choices on the ballot, I voted based on what the most likely consequences of a vote to Leave or a vote to Remain would be. Turns out everything I thought would happen in the event of a Leave vote is coming to fruition (ie leaving the EU but still having to abide by most of its rules but having much less influence, as well as the economic damage the Leave vote has wrought).
I think/hope that the events of the past 24 hours are the first steps towards a soft Brexit. Best case scenario a Norway style deal, worst case a kind of ultra-Canada style deal, which is a much better "worst case scenario" than I anticipated a couple of days ago.
I think/hope that the events of the past 24 hours are the first steps towards a soft Brexit. Best case scenario a Norway style deal, worst case a kind of ultra-Canada style deal, which is a much better "worst case scenario" than I anticipated a couple of days ago.
The sad truth is any 'gains' we make in this fiasco will largely be semantics.
Yes, we will be out of the Single Market...but goods and people can come and go between us and the EU as before.
Yes, we will be out of the Customs Union...but our customs arrangement will mirror the EU.
Yes, we will no longer be part of the ECJ's jurisdiction...but we will need to abide by EU laws anyway else we will be frozen out.
I am reposting a post I made 2 months ago which might explain why me and other leavers are not on this thread. It has been obvious for a long time that the remainer led Tory Government would sell out the 17m Leave voters. Today's agreement capitulates on all the key things that leaving the EU would mean and confirms what I wrote below. They are selling out the 17m and the political consequences of this will happen down the line.
'The UK is being slowly suckered into a very bad deal with the EU. May has conceded publicly and privately that the UK will pay about 40b Euros for effectively a transition deal, ie a prolongation of UK membership of the EU until at least 2021. In exchange the UK has received precisely nothing except vague assurances that a trade deal will be discussed at some point, which we all knew would have to happen anyway.
In the meantime there is nobody in the EU or in the German government (the only one that really matters) who has said anything other than that the 4 freedoms are indivisible, ie that continued membership of or access to the single market will involve continued free movement of labour and jurusdiction by the ECJ.
So, we have committed to pay a large sum of money for what? In order to be told at some future point, when it suits the EU and after France and Germany have been able to lure businesses to their countries because of the indecision they themselves have prolonged, that access to the single market will mean effectively continued control by the EU under another name.
In the 4 years during which this charade is being played out, the Remainers who dominate political discourse in this country will continue to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to demoralise those who supported Brexit. Look, they will say, we have lost money, we have a worse trade deal and no extra sovereignty, is it worth leaving the EU for this?
Those of us who want to see the referendum result carried out need to realise that the choice is not between a bad deal and no deal, but between Brexit and no Brexit.
So you left the thread because all the things that Remainers warned would happen...have happened?
Oh, and how have the Tories sold out the third of the voters who voted for Brexit? They are just following what the Leave campaign pledged in the first place.
Also, Remainers do not dominate the discourse at all. The government is controlled by the hard right Brexit wing of the Tory party, with Remainer Theresa a leader in name only. The media is controlled by right-wing Brexiteers. Politicians who support blocking Brexit face harrassment, abuse or worse. A Remain-supporting MP was murdered by a Brexiter.
If Leavers run everything-how come we are not leaving?
If by the end of 2019 the EU has removed the UK from its membership then we would have left.
In name only if we are still having to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court and accept rules and laws from the EU. The referendum quaetion was not-we would like to leave the EU but carry on as if we are still a member.
No it wasn't I agree - the question was should the UK remain a member of the EU or should the UK Leave the EU. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm nothing but persistent so I will ask you the same question for the umpteeth time (I promise not to ask it again) - what percentage of the 52% who voted to 'Leave the EU' do you believe share your version of Brexit?
What percentage thought that leaving the EU means remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court would be a better question-answer none.
I am reposting a post I made 2 months ago which might explain why me and other leavers are not on this thread. It has been obvious for a long time that the remainer led Tory Government would sell out the 17m Leave voters. Today's agreement capitulates on all the key things that leaving the EU would mean and confirms what I wrote below. They are selling out the 17m and the political consequences of this will happen down the line.
'The UK is being slowly suckered into a very bad deal with the EU. May has conceded publicly and privately that the UK will pay about 40b Euros for effectively a transition deal, ie a prolongation of UK membership of the EU until at least 2021. In exchange the UK has received precisely nothing except vague assurances that a trade deal will be discussed at some point, which we all knew would have to happen anyway.
In the meantime there is nobody in the EU or in the German government (the only one that really matters) who has said anything other than that the 4 freedoms are indivisible, ie that continued membership of or access to the single market will involve continued free movement of labour and jurusdiction by the ECJ.
So, we have committed to pay a large sum of money for what? In order to be told at some future point, when it suits the EU and after France and Germany have been able to lure businesses to their countries because of the indecision they themselves have prolonged, that access to the single market will mean effectively continued control by the EU under another name.
In the 4 years during which this charade is being played out, the Remainers who dominate political discourse in this country will continue to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to demoralise those who supported Brexit. Look, they will say, we have lost money, we have a worse trade deal and no extra sovereignty, is it worth leaving the EU for this?
Those of us who want to see the referendum result carried out need to realise that the choice is not between a bad deal and no deal, but between Brexit and no Brexit.
So you left the thread because all the things that Remainers warned would happen...have happened?
Oh, and how have the Tories sold out the third of the voters who voted for Brexit? They are just following what the Leave campaign pledged in the first place.
Also, Remainers do not dominate the discourse at all. The government is controlled by the hard right Brexit wing of the Tory party, with Remainer Theresa a leader in name only. The media is controlled by right-wing Brexiteers. Politicians who support blocking Brexit face harrassment, abuse or worse. A Remain-supporting MP was murdered by a Brexiter.
If Leavers run everything-how come we are not leaving?
If by the end of 2019 the EU has removed the UK from its membership then we would have left.
In name only if we are still having to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court and accept rules and laws from the EU. The referendum quaetion was not-we would like to leave the EU but carry on as if we are still a member.
No it wasn't I agree - the question was should the UK remain a member of the EU or should the UK Leave the EU. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm nothing but persistent so I will ask you the same question for the umpteeth time (I promise not to ask it again) - what percentage of the 52% who voted to 'Leave the EU' do you believe share your version of Brexit?
What percentage thought that leaving the EU means remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court would be a better question-answer none.
To be fair we will no longer be under the jurisdiction of the ECJ, they would have no power to sanction the UK of any breach once we leave the EU. The EU could however block access to the single market if they feel we are not cooperating, but then that is the same for any non-EU state they trade with.
Frequently Farage uses the phrase 'the brexit we all voted for' in order to back up what he wants to say. Despite it being said frequently in the early days after brexit people knew what they were voting for, subsequently it turns out to be any number of things, some quite contradictory. I didn't vote to leave, but even if I did i wonder if Farage would be speaking for me, I doubt he would. Indeed remainers who now accept the process and want to make the best of things don't speak for me either. It is probable that every voter voted for a different and individual reason, and we should all be cautious in saying that we know what everybody else really wanted. The vote has been and gone, and the battleground is implementation and the devilish detail therein.
I am reposting a post I made 2 months ago which might explain why me and other leavers are not on this thread. It has been obvious for a long time that the remainer led Tory Government would sell out the 17m Leave voters. Today's agreement capitulates on all the key things that leaving the EU would mean and confirms what I wrote below. They are selling out the 17m and the political consequences of this will happen down the line.
'The UK is being slowly suckered into a very bad deal with the EU. May has conceded publicly and privately that the UK will pay about 40b Euros for effectively a transition deal, ie a prolongation of UK membership of the EU until at least 2021. In exchange the UK has received precisely nothing except vague assurances that a trade deal will be discussed at some point, which we all knew would have to happen anyway.
In the meantime there is nobody in the EU or in the German government (the only one that really matters) who has said anything other than that the 4 freedoms are indivisible, ie that continued membership of or access to the single market will involve continued free movement of labour and jurusdiction by the ECJ.
So, we have committed to pay a large sum of money for what? In order to be told at some future point, when it suits the EU and after France and Germany have been able to lure businesses to their countries because of the indecision they themselves have prolonged, that access to the single market will mean effectively continued control by the EU under another name.
In the 4 years during which this charade is being played out, the Remainers who dominate political discourse in this country will continue to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to demoralise those who supported Brexit. Look, they will say, we have lost money, we have a worse trade deal and no extra sovereignty, is it worth leaving the EU for this?
Those of us who want to see the referendum result carried out need to realise that the choice is not between a bad deal and no deal, but between Brexit and no Brexit.
So you left the thread because all the things that Remainers warned would happen...have happened?
Oh, and how have the Tories sold out the third of the voters who voted for Brexit? They are just following what the Leave campaign pledged in the first place.
Also, Remainers do not dominate the discourse at all. The government is controlled by the hard right Brexit wing of the Tory party, with Remainer Theresa a leader in name only. The media is controlled by right-wing Brexiteers. Politicians who support blocking Brexit face harrassment, abuse or worse. A Remain-supporting MP was murdered by a Brexiter.
If Leavers run everything-how come we are not leaving?
If by the end of 2019 the EU has removed the UK from its membership then we would have left.
In name only if we are still having to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court and accept rules and laws from the EU. The referendum quaetion was not-we would like to leave the EU but carry on as if we are still a member.
No it wasn't I agree - the question was should the UK remain a member of the EU or should the UK Leave the EU. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm nothing but persistent so I will ask you the same question for the umpteeth time (I promise not to ask it again) - what percentage of the 52% who voted to 'Leave the EU' do you believe share your version of Brexit?
What percentage thought that leaving the EU means remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court would be a better question-answer none.
Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market Daniel Hannan MEP
Only a madman would actually leave the Market Owen Paterson MP, Vote Leave backer
Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing Nigel Farage, Ukip leader
Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder
I am reposting a post I made 2 months ago which might explain why me and other leavers are not on this thread. It has been obvious for a long time that the remainer led Tory Government would sell out the 17m Leave voters. Today's agreement capitulates on all the key things that leaving the EU would mean and confirms what I wrote below. They are selling out the 17m and the political consequences of this will happen down the line.
'The UK is being slowly suckered into a very bad deal with the EU. May has conceded publicly and privately that the UK will pay about 40b Euros for effectively a transition deal, ie a prolongation of UK membership of the EU until at least 2021. In exchange the UK has received precisely nothing except vague assurances that a trade deal will be discussed at some point, which we all knew would have to happen anyway.
In the meantime there is nobody in the EU or in the German government (the only one that really matters) who has said anything other than that the 4 freedoms are indivisible, ie that continued membership of or access to the single market will involve continued free movement of labour and jurusdiction by the ECJ.
So, we have committed to pay a large sum of money for what? In order to be told at some future point, when it suits the EU and after France and Germany have been able to lure businesses to their countries because of the indecision they themselves have prolonged, that access to the single market will mean effectively continued control by the EU under another name.
In the 4 years during which this charade is being played out, the Remainers who dominate political discourse in this country will continue to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to demoralise those who supported Brexit. Look, they will say, we have lost money, we have a worse trade deal and no extra sovereignty, is it worth leaving the EU for this?
Those of us who want to see the referendum result carried out need to realise that the choice is not between a bad deal and no deal, but between Brexit and no Brexit.
So you left the thread because all the things that Remainers warned would happen...have happened?
Oh, and how have the Tories sold out the third of the voters who voted for Brexit? They are just following what the Leave campaign pledged in the first place.
Also, Remainers do not dominate the discourse at all. The government is controlled by the hard right Brexit wing of the Tory party, with Remainer Theresa a leader in name only. The media is controlled by right-wing Brexiteers. Politicians who support blocking Brexit face harrassment, abuse or worse. A Remain-supporting MP was murdered by a Brexiter.
If Leavers run everything-how come we are not leaving?
If by the end of 2019 the EU has removed the UK from its membership then we would have left.
In name only if we are still having to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court and accept rules and laws from the EU. The referendum quaetion was not-we would like to leave the EU but carry on as if we are still a member.
No it wasn't I agree - the question was should the UK remain a member of the EU or should the UK Leave the EU. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm nothing but persistent so I will ask you the same question for the umpteeth time (I promise not to ask it again) - what percentage of the 52% who voted to 'Leave the EU' do you believe share your version of Brexit?
What percentage thought that leaving the EU means remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court would be a better question-answer none.
Why wasn't the question "should the UK leave European Union and the jurisdiction of the European court?" then ? It's pretty important to be clear when constructing the question you will ask in a referendum.
You might have thought you were being asked something more than "should we stay in the EU" but, again, that's on you.
I am reposting a post I made 2 months ago which might explain why me and other leavers are not on this thread. It has been obvious for a long time that the remainer led Tory Government would sell out the 17m Leave voters. Today's agreement capitulates on all the key things that leaving the EU would mean and confirms what I wrote below. They are selling out the 17m and the political consequences of this will happen down the line.
'The UK is being slowly suckered into a very bad deal with the EU. May has conceded publicly and privately that the UK will pay about 40b Euros for effectively a transition deal, ie a prolongation of UK membership of the EU until at least 2021. In exchange the UK has received precisely nothing except vague assurances that a trade deal will be discussed at some point, which we all knew would have to happen anyway.
In the meantime there is nobody in the EU or in the German government (the only one that really matters) who has said anything other than that the 4 freedoms are indivisible, ie that continued membership of or access to the single market will involve continued free movement of labour and jurusdiction by the ECJ.
So, we have committed to pay a large sum of money for what? In order to be told at some future point, when it suits the EU and after France and Germany have been able to lure businesses to their countries because of the indecision they themselves have prolonged, that access to the single market will mean effectively continued control by the EU under another name.
In the 4 years during which this charade is being played out, the Remainers who dominate political discourse in this country will continue to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to demoralise those who supported Brexit. Look, they will say, we have lost money, we have a worse trade deal and no extra sovereignty, is it worth leaving the EU for this?
Those of us who want to see the referendum result carried out need to realise that the choice is not between a bad deal and no deal, but between Brexit and no Brexit.
So you left the thread because all the things that Remainers warned would happen...have happened?
Oh, and how have the Tories sold out the third of the voters who voted for Brexit? They are just following what the Leave campaign pledged in the first place.
Also, Remainers do not dominate the discourse at all. The government is controlled by the hard right Brexit wing of the Tory party, with Remainer Theresa a leader in name only. The media is controlled by right-wing Brexiteers. Politicians who support blocking Brexit face harrassment, abuse or worse. A Remain-supporting MP was murdered by a Brexiter.
If Leavers run everything-how come we are not leaving?
If by the end of 2019 the EU has removed the UK from its membership then we would have left.
In name only if we are still having to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court and accept rules and laws from the EU. The referendum quaetion was not-we would like to leave the EU but carry on as if we are still a member.
No it wasn't I agree - the question was should the UK remain a member of the EU or should the UK Leave the EU. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm nothing but persistent so I will ask you the same question for the umpteeth time (I promise not to ask it again) - what percentage of the 52% who voted to 'Leave the EU' do you believe share your version of Brexit?
What percentage thought that leaving the EU means remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court would be a better question-answer none.
Why wasn't the question "should the UK leave European Union and the jurisdiction of the European court?" then ? It's pretty important to be clear when constructing the question you will ask in a referendum.
You might have thought you were being asked something more than "should we stay in the EU" but, again, that's on you.
Remainers should be happy today. They have supported the overturning of the biggest democratic vote in this country without a shot being fired in order to get their own way.
A lot of people are jumping to a lot of conclusions are here. The most important part was always going to be the trade negotiations. Let's wait and see what we can negotiate here. One thing continues, most Remainers continue be arrogant and pompous, and think anyone who is a Leaver is dumb and stupid.
100% agree. Think it's why many of the leave orientated posters have disappeared as noted by @ShootersHillGuru. It's made the thread a bit sterile. I think the country is coming together with Theresa May tories and kier starmer labour not a million miles apart. Both remain very vague.
So are you in the arrogant and pompous camp, or the dumb and stupid camp?
I'm Pompous, camp and dumb - so I don't know where I belong.
I am reposting a post I made 2 months ago which might explain why me and other leavers are not on this thread. It has been obvious for a long time that the remainer led Tory Government would sell out the 17m Leave voters. Today's agreement capitulates on all the key things that leaving the EU would mean and confirms what I wrote below. They are selling out the 17m and the political consequences of this will happen down the line.
'The UK is being slowly suckered into a very bad deal with the EU. May has conceded publicly and privately that the UK will pay about 40b Euros for effectively a transition deal, ie a prolongation of UK membership of the EU until at least 2021. In exchange the UK has received precisely nothing except vague assurances that a trade deal will be discussed at some point, which we all knew would have to happen anyway.
In the meantime there is nobody in the EU or in the German government (the only one that really matters) who has said anything other than that the 4 freedoms are indivisible, ie that continued membership of or access to the single market will involve continued free movement of labour and jurusdiction by the ECJ.
So, we have committed to pay a large sum of money for what? In order to be told at some future point, when it suits the EU and after France and Germany have been able to lure businesses to their countries because of the indecision they themselves have prolonged, that access to the single market will mean effectively continued control by the EU under another name.
In the 4 years during which this charade is being played out, the Remainers who dominate political discourse in this country will continue to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to demoralise those who supported Brexit. Look, they will say, we have lost money, we have a worse trade deal and no extra sovereignty, is it worth leaving the EU for this?
Those of us who want to see the referendum result carried out need to realise that the choice is not between a bad deal and no deal, but between Brexit and no Brexit.
So you left the thread because all the things that Remainers warned would happen...have happened?
Oh, and how have the Tories sold out the third of the voters who voted for Brexit? They are just following what the Leave campaign pledged in the first place.
Also, Remainers do not dominate the discourse at all. The government is controlled by the hard right Brexit wing of the Tory party, with Remainer Theresa a leader in name only. The media is controlled by right-wing Brexiteers. Politicians who support blocking Brexit face harrassment, abuse or worse. A Remain-supporting MP was murdered by a Brexiter.
If Leavers run everything-how come we are not leaving?
If by the end of 2019 the EU has removed the UK from its membership then we would have left.
In name only if we are still having to accept the jurisdiction of the European Court and accept rules and laws from the EU. The referendum quaetion was not-we would like to leave the EU but carry on as if we are still a member.
No it wasn't I agree - the question was should the UK remain a member of the EU or should the UK Leave the EU. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm nothing but persistent so I will ask you the same question for the umpteeth time (I promise not to ask it again) - what percentage of the 52% who voted to 'Leave the EU' do you believe share your version of Brexit?
What percentage thought that leaving the EU means remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court would be a better question-answer none.
Why wasn't the question "should the UK leave European Union and the jurisdiction of the European court?" then ? It's pretty important to be clear when constructing the question you will ask in a referendum.
You might have thought you were being asked something more than "should we stay in the EU" but, again, that's on you.
Remainers should be happy today. They have supported the overturning of the biggest democratic vote in this country without a shot being fired in order to get their own way.
Comments
As far as I can tell now brexit is coming down to the UK not paying for internal enterprises in the EU, regional regeneration for example, or research and development of stuff.
The detail will be about the EHIC card or stuff like that I suppose because forgive me, what is there now to discuss regarding trade? As in we move on to phase 2 which is about trade relationship?
The trading arrangements via the ROI means that the trading arrangements with the EU are also already established, what will they talk about?
Am I missing something blindingly obvious?
I mean, I would never say that all Brexit voters are stupid.
But the ones who get the oxygen of publicity certainly give that unfortunate impression.
'The UK is being slowly suckered into a very bad deal with the EU. May has conceded publicly and privately that the UK will pay about 40b Euros for effectively a transition deal, ie a prolongation of UK membership of the EU until at least 2021. In exchange the UK has received precisely nothing except vague assurances that a trade deal will be discussed at some point, which we all knew would have to happen anyway.
In the meantime there is nobody in the EU or in the German government (the only one that really matters) who has said anything other than that the 4 freedoms are indivisible, ie that continued membership of or access to the single market will involve continued free movement of labour and jurusdiction by the ECJ.
So, we have committed to pay a large sum of money for what?
In order to be told at some future point, when it suits the EU and after France and Germany have been able to lure businesses to their countries because of the indecision they themselves have prolonged, that access to the single market will mean effectively continued control by the EU under another name.
In the 4 years during which this charade is being played out, the Remainers who dominate political discourse in this country will continue to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt in order to demoralise those who supported Brexit. Look, they will say, we have lost money, we have a worse trade deal and no extra sovereignty, is it worth leaving the EU for this?
Those of us who want to see the referendum result carried out need to realise that the choice is not between a bad deal and no deal, but between Brexit and no Brexit.
Not being in the EU means for a start the UK will not have to deal with the dilemma when EU fiscal union gets underway. Join the Euro or be sidelined and shat on from a great height by the benevolent masters of the EU.
It allows us to decide which internal enterprises we choose to fund in the UK, regional regeneration in the UK and research and development in the UK.
Did we not pay for this already from our own EU contributions? We will at least save the banking and exchange rate costs of the same money moving back and forth across the Channel in Euros and Sterling, or am I missing something blindingly obvious?
Or are you saying we will lose out not paying £9bn for the unaccounted vanity projects of various municipalities across the EU?
On a tangent, I came across something today of which I was completely unaware. The Canadian/EU trade deal (CETA), agreed but still to be ratified, is often held up as one of our choices for the future, as is the Norway model.
And yet, apparently, a couple of months ago, Angela Merkel was prepared to put the many years of negotiation with Canada at risk, by assuring the Greens that she would drop ratification of CETA if they sided with her in a coalition!
I am astonished how unprincipled this is. Equivalent, probably worse, then May’s agreement with the DUP.
Oh, and how have the Tories sold out the third of the voters who voted for Brexit? They are just following what the Leave campaign pledged in the first place.
Also, Remainers do not dominate the discourse at all. The government is controlled by the hard right Brexit wing of the Tory party, with Remainer Theresa a leader in name only. The media is controlled by right-wing Brexiteers. Politicians who support blocking Brexit face harrassment, abuse or worse. A Remain-supporting MP was murdered by a Brexiter.
We both seem to agree that the UK won't pay for what you describe as unaccounted vanity projects of various municipalities across the EU (as I say I would probably see most of those projects in a very positive light), and instead pay solely for (vanity?) projects within the UK. Indeed you and I have very similar feeling about the Olympic Stadium/West Ham vanity project which the UK managed to make happen all by itself.
So if that is what brexit comes down to I am beginning to get it, if not like it.
The much trumpeted big issues: border control, laws, striking our own free trade deals (now restricted by the customs union I suppose), and to an extent payments to the EU have seemingly been surrendered today.
And thankfully, sincerely, there seems to now be some comfort for EU nationals in the UK, and UK nationals in the EU, can anybody decry that?
We are left as you say with technicalities to sort out, and the fiscal union bit will not be an issue, not least because the existence of the pound always kept that at arms length. We are probably in Blue Passport/bendy banana territory now, as it appears the issues that matter have been (very sadly from my personal point of view) decided.
I really don't see what these Bremoaners are getting so het up about.
I'm nothing but persistent so I will ask you the same question for the umpteeth time (I promise not to ask it again) - what percentage of the 52% who voted to 'Leave the EU' do you believe share your version of Brexit?
If you inferred some other outcome from that simple question then that's on you.
Yes, we will be out of the Single Market...but goods and people can come and go between us and the EU as before.
Yes, we will be out of the Customs Union...but our customs arrangement will mirror the EU.
Yes, we will no longer be part of the ECJ's jurisdiction...but we will need to abide by EU laws anyway else we will be frozen out.
But hey blue passports.
Despite it being said frequently in the early days after brexit people knew what they were voting for, subsequently it turns out to be any number of things, some quite contradictory.
I didn't vote to leave, but even if I did i wonder if Farage would be speaking for me, I doubt he would. Indeed remainers who now accept the process and want to make the best of things don't speak for me either.
It is probable that every voter voted for a different and individual reason, and we should all be cautious in saying that we know what everybody else really wanted.
The vote has been and gone, and the battleground is implementation and the devilish detail therein.
Only a madman would actually leave the Market Owen Paterson MP, Vote Leave backer
Wouldn't it be terrible if we were really like Norway and Switzerland? Really? They're rich. They're happy. They're self-governing Nigel Farage, Ukip leader
Increasingly, the Norway option looks the best for the UK Arron Banks, Leave.EU founder
You might have thought you were being asked something more than "should we stay in the EU" but, again, that's on you.
Pompous, camp and dumb - so I don't know where I belong.