It's not incompetence. It's not an accident. These Tories have figured it out.
They have positioned themselves as the pro-Brexit party, and that any other party that threatens them is going to stop Brexit. This guarantees them power for as long as Brexit trundles along for.
Which is exactly why they are approaching it with all the urgency and dedication of a heavily drugged sloth attempting to solve a Rubik's Cube. They know for as long as they are the only party committed to delivering Brexit, no matter what else they do they have carte blanche to enact their extremely right-wing policies that they could never ever get away with without the shield of Brexit. The cabinet and the government are almost entirely made up of the farthest right of the party. They don't care about Brexit. The ministers, their families, their donors and their patricians in the fourth estate, the pro-Brexit right-wing media, control most of the wealth and power in this country. They are completely insulated from the negative effects of Brexit as their offshore and overseas assets will continue to grow at the expense of the UK's chaos. They are using Brexit to continue the transfer of control and wealth from the people to themselves.
We need to stop this government and stop Brexit before the country is irreversibly doomed to fail under a hard-right agenda where the only winners will be people manifestly opposed to the prosperity of the British people.
All of that, but it's also incompetence (albeit of a calculated, boorish kind - Davis describing his work as 'boring' etc)
May uses all her answers to Corbyn to ignore the question and attack the Labour Party. Unless she is planning to call an election soon, this is completely inappropriate. Bercow should have the stones to force her to return to the floor to actually answer the question without baseless political rhetoric.
Also the slight issue of Davis admitting to lying to Parliament. Will she show some spine and sack him, since he has actually admitted to doing this?
May uses all her answers to Corbyn to ignore the question and attack the Labour Party. Unless she is planning to call an election soon, this is completely inappropriate. Bercow should have the stones to force her to return to the floor to actually answer the question without baseless political rhetoric.
Since when has the charade of PMQs been anything other than baseless political rhetoric?
May uses all her answers to Corbyn to ignore the question and attack the Labour Party. Unless she is planning to call an election soon, this is completely inappropriate. Bercow should have the stones to force her to return to the floor to actually answer the question without baseless political rhetoric.
Since when has the charade of PMQs been anything other than baseless political rhetoric?
In non election years one usually expects the PM to at least address the question asked. May is just hopeless now.
The government has just stated that it cannot commit to preserving the Good Friday Agreement regarding the future of the border and the Brexit negotiations as a whole. Very concerning.
The government has just stated that it cannot commit to preserving the Good Friday Agreement regarding the future of the border and the Brexit negotiations as a whole. Very concerning.
That is an astonishing admission. It was only a couple of days ago that this shower were committed to a frictionless border. They really are totally oblivious to the realities of Brexit.
They really ought to go to the country now. They won’t though. They will cling to power like shit to a shovel even at the expense of the prosperity of the country.
Many of the observations above are valid and the combined effect might shift the polls by another couple of points. We don't yet know if the recent poll giving Labour an eight point lead was rogue or part of a trend?
The irony is that this strengthens May's hand! She has delivered wording that was acceptable to both Brussels and Dublin. Are her alt-right opponents going to tip her out of office? And if they stall progress that just temps Tory remainers to cross the floor since Keir Starmer and Hillary Benn have demonstrated an adult broad church approach.
Perhaps all roads lead to a soft Brexit? And a Labour win at the next election? Or are we worried that 35 extremists from the alt-right will get the better of the establishment for a second time?
Robin Walker rejected the amendment to ensure that Good Friday Agreement is not broken in the EU Withdrawal Bill on the grounds that they technically could not commit to it.
I have, finally, found an elected MP in Northern Ireland that I can actually admire, even if I might not agree with all her policies.
Lady Sylvia Hermon has been very impressive throughout the current debates - and seems to be the MP most keen to protect non-economic benefits of the status quo.
@NornIrishAddick The articles you link spell out challenges for 2018 but as it says in the good book: sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof - Matthew 6v34.
Of course many of us have speculated about how this might play out - perhaps I have more than most?
The fact remains that May has 24-48 hours to run this past the DUP, ignore any material changes as they won't fly! Or fold?
In parallel Hammond plays the honourable card stating that the agreed Brexit bill will be settled only to be contradicted in public by May and Davis. What is Barnier and the EU27 to make of that?
After all it appears that phase 1 commitments won't be honoured if the UK doesnt get a trade deal? Oops, there goes the UK credit rating!
We all know that it's all or nothing when it comes to the CU and SM. There can be no cherry picking by sector even if Davis had done the analysis! That's not how the EU has built up over 60 years to become the biggest trade bloc on the planet.
It appears that our fellow fans on the leave side are having a lie down? It must be tough to watch. Perhaps something will turn up?
My Brexit expectation has always been, "it's going to take ages, be complicated, and upset some folk" So far, that seems true, which is why I often said on here that we need to leave it to the 650 folk who we pay to sort out the tough stuff.
They are taking ages, falling out, contradicting each other etc etc - but so what?
I hear "we are the laughing stock of Europe".....well, maybe - but again, so what ?
Dave made the first rick - allowing the referendum. Then he made the second rick - coming back from the EU empty handed, 4 months before the vote. Mrs M made the third rick - calling a pointless election.
But that stuff is all done now, so let them work out what Brexit looks like (however long it takes), then they can tell us, and then we can all go from there.
No point in rucking about clumsy politicians etc - just vote them out at the next opportunity.
Just about sums our leaders up...but...you know...let's just give them some more time to mess things up for decades to come and see where we are at the end of it.
Valiantphil - so we should only voice our opinions regarding politics once every 5 years at the ballot box, and in between keep schtum regardless of how poorly they're performing?
What blithely farcical nonsense.
Might as well say you can't criticise players or managers until the season is over because we can't definitely be sure where in the league we will finish.
It remains, as it has done since June 2016, the national interest to stop Brexit as soon as possible and hold those responsible for leading us down this chaotic road to account. 2022 is too far away to see what will happen.
I have heard a number of times people saying 'we won't know until it's happened' regarding Brexit. This allows folk to dismiss the issue and pass responsibility on to others to make whatever it is happen. The problem comes when you watch transfixed whilst it is happening. If somebody promised to created a beautiful flowerbed in your garden, would you gaze placidly whilst a whacking great cement mixture poured concrete on your lawn, or would you say something?
@Valiantphil That approach works! The 650 and their leadership work through the process and the detail... They stumble, change track and discuss with the EU etc.
And at the end of phase 2 they have a better idea of what it looks like. As do the electorate.
We then arrive at the point where choices have to be made. Perhaps irrevocable choices?
My preference is for an election before that point. That might or might not change the make up of the 650 but it certainly gives the people the chance to discuss approach and select representatives.
And if the country is still on course to leave the SM and CU so be it. And if there's no deal at least I've had a chance to sell my house - after all, leave means leave!
A lot of people say have no deal and trade on WTO rules. The HQ of the WTO (world trade organisation) is in Geneva. To join a country has to first apply and it takes an average of five years to be accepted. It took Russia 18 years. There are rules and regulations to be followed, and according to my skim read research it may be that the WTO wouldn't allow the UK to join if joining conflicted with the Good Friday Agreement. I might have this all wrong and the UK might already be a member, a bit unsure of this.
@Valiantphil That approach works! The 650 and their leadership work through the process and the detail... They stumble, change track and discuss with the EU etc.
And at the end of phase 2 they have a better idea of what it looks like. As do the electorate.
We then arrive at the point where choices have to be made. Perhaps irrevocable choices?
My preference is for an election before that point. That might or might not change the make up of the 650 but it certainly gives the people the chance to discuss approach and select representatives.
And if the country is still on course to leave the SM and CU so be it. And if there's no deal at least I've had a chance to sell my house - after all, leave means leave!
I don't think you will get an election before that point, but I seem to recall Mrs M saying that Parliament would get a vote on the final deal - if there ever is one.
As for selling your house.......there are plenty in the UK who are looking for somewhere to live, so that should be easy.
Valiantphil - so we should only voice our opinions regarding politics once every 5 years at the ballot box, and in between keep schtum regardless of how poorly they're performing?
What blithely farcical nonsense.
Might as well say you can't criticise players or managers until the season is over because we can't definitely be sure where in the league we will finish.
It remains, as it has done since June 2016, the national interest to stop Brexit as soon as possible and hold those responsible for leading us down this chaotic road to account. 2022 is too far away to see what will happen.
Not at all. Criticise away to your hearts content, but the 650 who are on £75k a year are not going to give anyone an easy chance to oust them. Yes, ministers will come and go, but we won't be doing anymore voting for a few years (IMO).
I still say "wait and see", rather than chew over all the possible outcomes and moan about the ones you or I might dislike, regardless of whether they are actually going to happen or not.
A lot of people say have no deal and trade on WTO rules. The HQ of the WTO (world trade organisation) is in Geneva. To join a country has to first apply and it takes an average of five years to be accepted. It took Russia 18 years. There are rules and regulations to be followed, and according to my skim read research it may be that the WTO wouldn't allow the UK to join if joining conflicted with the Good Friday Agreement. I might have this all wrong and the UK might already be a member, a bit unsure of this.
I was trying to post something earlier but had problems......
My view on the Irish problem (something I said a few months back would scupper any deal) is that the Good Friday Peace Agreement is just that. A Peace Agreement. It shouldn't be used as a pawn in the UK leaving the EU. I realise that it probably says a lot of things about a "united Ireland" and "shared issues" but that was merely a way round trying to please the warring factions (mainly the IRA & the Protestants). Both sides want Ireland to be 1 country (The north as part of the UK & the south a separate country). The rest of the UK is now being held to ransom, with unspoken threats that the Peace Agreement will fall apart if either side loses, and to me that is unacceptable. Brexit should continue without any border issue being agreed & the "Irish problem" sorted internally - firstly by a referendum asking both sides what they want (a united Ireland as part of the UK or as you were or all of Ireland as an independent country)
Comments
Also the slight issue of Davis admitting to lying to Parliament. Will she show some spine and sack him, since he has actually admitted to doing this?
They really ought to go to the country now. They won’t though. They will cling to power like shit to a shovel even at the expense of the prosperity of the country.
The irony is that this strengthens May's hand! She has delivered wording that was acceptable to both Brussels and Dublin. Are her alt-right opponents going to tip her out of office? And if they stall progress that just temps Tory remainers to cross the floor since Keir Starmer and Hillary Benn have demonstrated an adult broad church approach.
Perhaps all roads lead to a soft Brexit? And a Labour win at the next election? Or are we worried that 35 extremists from the alt-right will get the better of the establishment for a second time?
PS who admitted what re. the GFA?
Because I'm pretty sure the answer is nothing, even though he has until today given assurances he has been doing something.
Which is about as close to treason as you can get without actually committing treason.
Lady Sylvia Hermon has been very impressive throughout the current debates - and seems to be the MP most keen to protect non-economic benefits of the status quo.
Of course many of us have speculated about how this might play out - perhaps I have more than most?
The fact remains that May has 24-48 hours to run this past the DUP, ignore any material changes as they won't fly! Or fold?
In parallel Hammond plays the honourable card stating that the agreed Brexit bill will be settled only to be contradicted in public by May and Davis. What is Barnier and the EU27 to make of that?
After all it appears that phase 1 commitments won't be honoured if the UK doesnt get a trade deal? Oops, there goes the UK credit rating!
We all know that it's all or nothing when it comes to the CU and SM. There can be no cherry picking by sector even if Davis had done the analysis! That's not how the EU has built up over 60 years to become the biggest trade bloc on the planet.
It appears that our fellow fans on the leave side are having a lie down? It must be tough to watch. Perhaps something will turn up?
My Brexit expectation has always been, "it's going to take ages, be complicated, and upset some folk"
So far, that seems true, which is why I often said on here that we need to leave it to the 650 folk who we pay to sort out the tough stuff.
They are taking ages, falling out, contradicting each other etc etc - but so what?
I hear "we are the laughing stock of Europe".....well, maybe - but again, so what ?
Dave made the first rick - allowing the referendum.
Then he made the second rick - coming back from the EU empty handed, 4 months before the vote.
Mrs M made the third rick - calling a pointless election.
But that stuff is all done now, so let them work out what Brexit looks like (however long it takes), then they can tell us, and then we can all go from there.
No point in rucking about clumsy politicians etc - just vote them out at the next opportunity.
Just about sums our leaders up...but...you know...let's just give them some more time to mess things up for decades to come and see where we are at the end of it.
What blithely farcical nonsense.
Might as well say you can't criticise players or managers until the season is over because we can't definitely be sure where in the league we will finish.
It remains, as it has done since June 2016, the national interest to stop Brexit as soon as possible and hold those responsible for leading us down this chaotic road to account. 2022 is too far away to see what will happen.
The problem comes when you watch transfixed whilst it is happening.
If somebody promised to created a beautiful flowerbed in your garden, would you gaze placidly whilst a whacking great cement mixture poured concrete on your lawn, or would you say something?
And at the end of phase 2 they have a better idea of what it looks like. As do the electorate.
We then arrive at the point where choices have to be made. Perhaps irrevocable choices?
My preference is for an election before that point. That might or might not change the make up of the 650 but it certainly gives the people the chance to discuss approach and select representatives.
And if the country is still on course to leave the SM and CU so be it. And if there's no deal at least I've had a chance to sell my house - after all, leave means leave!
The HQ of the WTO (world trade organisation) is in Geneva.
To join a country has to first apply and it takes an average of five years to be accepted. It took Russia 18 years.
There are rules and regulations to be followed, and according to my skim read research it may be that the WTO wouldn't allow the UK to join if joining conflicted with the Good Friday Agreement.
I might have this all wrong and the UK might already be a member, a bit unsure of this.
As for selling your house.......there are plenty in the UK who are looking for somewhere to live, so that should be easy.
I still say "wait and see", rather than chew over all the possible outcomes and moan about the ones you or I might dislike, regardless of whether they are actually going to happen or not.
It is turning out like this:
My view on the Irish problem (something I said a few months back would scupper any deal) is that the Good Friday Peace Agreement is just that. A Peace Agreement. It shouldn't be used as a pawn in the UK leaving the EU. I realise that it probably says a lot of things about a "united Ireland" and "shared issues" but that was merely a way round trying to please the warring factions (mainly the IRA & the Protestants). Both sides want Ireland to be 1 country (The north as part of the UK & the south a separate country). The rest of the UK is now being held to ransom, with unspoken threats that the Peace Agreement will fall apart if either side loses, and to me that is unacceptable. Brexit should continue without any border issue being agreed & the "Irish problem" sorted internally - firstly by a referendum asking both sides what they want (a united Ireland as part of the UK or as you were or all of Ireland as an independent country)