A foreign tourist in attendance at tonight's match would have concluded that it must be a Cup game , with the away side being from a higher league than the home team.
Wigan, histrionics apart, were miles better than us & IMHO looked a class side that belongs in the Championship.
I have no idea whether the Northerners were able to hold on to their stronger players following relegation but their rapport on the pitch was paramount, whereas our lads on occasion appeared not to have been introduced to one another.
I can accept defeat by a superior team but tonight was very disappointing & I felt for those that had made the effort to attend after boycotting, or indeed after making a belated decision to purchase a season ticket. This performance will hardly tempt the former to repeat the exercise.....
My thoughts, for what they are worth, echo those of earlier posters. Wigan fielded a team of tall, strong players, making ours appear lightweight & easily knocked off the ball. Long balls to Big Josh were invariably headed back from whence they came with some ease and hence our striker was able to show little of his attributes & was rarely a force to be reckoned with tonight. This, for me is as worrying as KR's blinkered approach to the match of no Plan B ( "One plan, he's only got one plan ...etc ")
In addition, sadly, our current bench is hardly going to worry the opposition. RD's Scrooge like tendencies have left us in a sorry state until Reeves and/or Marshall are fit for purpose whilst a red card to our Rickeeee or an injury to our lone striker doesn't bear thinking about.
So, our first home defeat of the season and although Wigan may well prove to be champions in waiting, warning bells are beginning to tinkle....3 goals conceded tonight (albeit in conditions more suited to the hardy Northerners) for the second time in 3 matches must concern the gaffer whoever is the opposition. This squad of players needs to show more character ( balls!) and resilience when the first goal is conceded. I, for one, couldn't see where an equaliser would come from whilst no-one could accuse the faithful of not getting behind their team.
Let's hope that some important lessons have been learned tonight which will stand the lads & their coaches in good stead for the coming months.We are all too aware that it's a marathon, not a sprint and it's far too soon to "hit the wall".....
I am keeping the faith but tonight was a reality check for sure with certain frailties identified.
Let's hope both spirits and our points total rise on Saturday as the inevitable cold wind blows around the nether regions of the travelling fans in that awful "stand".
Probably obvious, but our back 4 (even 6 with Kashi and Kasky) are sitting too deep, leaving a huge gap to be covered by our 3 midfielders, as a result handing the opposition free time on the ball in the middle of the park. If we're unwilling to hold a higher line, lets be honest and park everyone back. We are better than that...
That has brought us back down to earth. Outclassed, outplayed and out fought. Robinson not having a plan B is the biggest worry as teams will soon suss out what works for us and counter it. When that happens as it did last night, we or rather he, has no idea how to turn things around. The youngsters he put on are not likely to do much, and shows how weak our squad is. I know some say so are most teams squads but our owner can afford to put that right but wont do so. If Robinson is really happy with how RD treats him, then he is as much a part of the problem as RD. Feel so sorry for our German Addicks who made the extra trip to catch our wonderful start, only to see a performance far worse than most last season.
Started the season hoping for the playoffs, but reassessed to automatic promotion after 6 games. Following the 7th game I’m back to the playoff target. However, I know the Gillingham game will either endorse that view … or break me as a human being.
Kashi getting some pelters on the player marks thread, he is one that I think has a right to be knackered. A rest for him Saturday would be my choice but who comes in at CM?
Big realitt check there. I've been less and less carried away with the optimism of recent weeks. The defence has been leaking goals, and the opposition has generally been lower half of the league. But in the end it was a loss against a good team. The reaction of KR will be a big factor now. The truth is the bench didn't offer a great deal and that was a worry when Doodo arrivef and pulled the transfer window closed behind him. So today the team need to regroup and Robinson needs to prepare some different options. This may just be tired legs. It happens. But I would feel less worried if the bench options were better.
Kashi getting some pelters on the player marks thread, he is one that I think has a right to be knackered. A rest for him Saturday would be my choice but who comes in at CM?
Kashi getting some pelters on the player marks thread, he is one that I think has a right to be knackered. A rest for him Saturday would be my choice but who comes in at CM?
Obvious replacement would be Konsa
Id be surprised to see him rested, they've all got three days now before their next game so plenty of time to recover
Kashi getting some pelters on the player marks thread, he is one that I think has a right to be knackered. A rest for him Saturday would be my choice but who comes in at CM?
Obvious replacement would be Konsa
Id be surprised to see him rested, they've all got three days now before their next game so plenty of time to recover
We are talking about a player that hasn't played consecutive games in 2 years.
He started the season our best player. There will be a reason he's taken a sudden dip in form.
46 games in a season, even the team that runs away with the league isn't going to win all of them. Losing to a better side on the night and where you can see what made the difference doesn't hurt as much as wasting 3 points to a team you should have beaten easily. What was the difference ? They coped with the conditions better and we encouraged them to go for it with our wayward passing. Maybe it was the weather, sitting in the covered end under a leaking roof dripping on the heads of fans and horizontal rain hitting us in the face it may just been a tad worse out in the pitch and the first bit of bad weather came as more of a shock to the team from the south than it did to the one from a place where the sun don't shine. Did we suddenly turn into a bad team ? No, but we allowed Wigan to push us back and not play the attacking game that's been our trademark so far this season and we all know that if you let the other team constantly attack you the law of averages means they will score more than you.
I'm confused to hear we were beaten by the champions elect, because two days ago I was being told that we were the champions elect.
Exactly this. Convenient.
Chelsea fans wouldn't brush it off if they lost 3-0 at home to Man City so why should we in the equivalent scenario?
Robinson himself said that team (if stayed injury free) would go up automatically so it needs to be backed up with performances against our self-proclaimed league rivals.
The warning signs were there in the Oldham game and last night just showed how fragile our team is. I don't think the reactions of most posters are OTT as I just think we have a fairly mediocre team that managed to string a few results together.
Technically we are not good enough to outplay teams and we lack physical presence. Our bench looks very inexperienced and I think this will be a long hard season.
Whingers back posting. End of the world is nigh bla bla bla. We were outclassed by a much better team. Conceding 3 goals at Oldham was the alarm bell. Team has to be a work in progress. We were beaten by the champions tonight.
Strange comments masicat......don't see too many whingers as you put it, more disappointers I'd say. I don't think many of us saw that coming........I know I didn't.
I think some people did see it coming. As I said, the 3 conceded at Oldham was worrying. Southend got at us last Saturday and with a bit more luck would have beaten us. I sometimes look at players marks and think people score a lot of the time depending on the result. Take Kashi for instance. I admit I haven't seen him play as often as some have. To me he looks weak and is often caught out of position. We watched him closely last night and he looks great going forward, but lost when the opposition attack. We lack power and height. We can be outmuscled and always struggle from set pieces and corners. In my opinion ( not based on one match ) we need more bite in midfield and more power in other positions. But, what do I know.
It's all been said really. They were better than us. We had an off night. We got what we deserved. Reality check all round. Not completely unexpected and I can handle it.
What really f****d me off about the night after really enjoying the start to the season though was the reminder of all the things I've grown to dislike about this league/football in general (delete as appropriate):
1. The sly underhand cheating and time wasting by a nasty team who were allowed to get away with it by a turd of a referee. Powell in particular was a constant pain in the wotsit off the ball to Kashi especially (standing on his toes, shoving him, etc). Sure we were well beaten by a much better side, but they are a horrible bunch. Hope they come unstuck.
2. The fact that we allowed ourselves to be suckered by their underhand tactics. We are too nice. If I reluctantly accept that all the stuff at 1 above goes on, can we at least be as good at it as everyone else seems to be?
3. A quarter full Valley (despite the fact that the majority thankfully stayed behind the team). On a filthy night its a constant reminder of what we have become and the reasons for it. Fit and proper my arse!
4. The shallowness of it all. Win and we get a post match huddle and much milking of the applause. A pasting and we slink off heads down with the manager making sure he goes just in front of the ref who collects all the boos.
5. The standard of officials. We would probably have been turned over regardless last night so this isn't a complaint about bias. It's about competence. If we could so clearly see all the stuff I've mentioned above, why can't four officials who are supposed to be professionals see it too? And on the assumption that the can see it, why don't they do anything about it? It's spoiling the game.
All in all, probably just as well to have the reality check early although the week after I buy a season ticket is a bummer. But we still very much have it in us to make this season interesting and be up there at the end. I suspect Wigan will be a class apart with no more e than a couple of others. But there is a lot of dross and we are better than that. Last night though was a painful reminder of our weaknesses. I suspected beforehand that this might be the game where our great start faltered but I didn't expect our surrender to be so meek or the drubbing to be so complete (should have been five or six).
Went straight from work so felt a bit of a prune in a suit and went into Crossbars for a pint and a burger (yes, I know......). Queued up at the bit where it said in tall letters "order here" only to be told I then had to order elsewhere. Then stood in a line of blokes holding plates of burger and chips while the poor girl on the till had to use a calculator to work out £10 minus £6.80. She did this for every customer and then proceeded to give us all back £3.80 in change. If it wasn't so depressing it would have been funny. It it wasn't Roland's money I'd have given her the 60p back too.
Still much happier than I was last season but a bounce back is required.
I'm not quite sure what was worse, the performance of the team, or the performance of the ref, who ruined the match, but we weren't good enough when the first goal in , fair play to Wigan, they bossed the game, and loooked like a team from a higher division a la Norwich at home in preseason.
Not going to single any player out as it was pretty tepid all round, players that loooked good on Saturday looked awful on Tuesday.
Not going over the top, but maybe consistent inconsistency is what we've got to get used to, shock to the system, a wake up call, whatever you want to call it, it will be interesting to see how the players and manager react to this, of course they won't be happy, but they've got to stick together and learn from this.
I thought Wigan had some big units in their team and we couldn't live with them.
Also thought the weather conditions meant this was almost like a home game for Wigan.
The fickle bus is back in the garage for an MOT , lets hope it passes!
I was reminded of when a big Ipswich sided bullied us in the Championship a couple of seasons ago. Credit to the Wigan manager for their tactics. They didn't press the man with the ball, but were tight on all of his passing options and were stronger physically than us. So where we normally pass through teams, the passer only had a difficult or ineffective pass on, if that worked the next pass is the same. They also made sure Holmes was tightly marked and Magennis was isolated.
The negative was that despite it being obvious, there wasn't much Robinson could do to be fair. Had we scored from our chance, they may have become less tight and it could have been different, but we didn't deserve anything from the game. We don't have the players/squad to implement a plan B. The positive is how many teams are equipped to do that to us?
No need to panic and Wigan aren't world beaters, just they were opponents that didn't suit us.
I am not going to panic about this one. Wigan the best team we have come up against so far and will probably be in the top 2 places. We did not look shit we looked no worse than against Southend. They were a better side more players of quality, which is what you would expect from a team expecting to bounce back into the championship in the first season after relegation. We are a mid table level 3 team and we showed it.
I think Robinson needs to think about how we deal with this sort of challenge - other teams will try it and even if they don't implement as well as Wigan, we have to have answers.
The squad is not strong enough to play 3 games a week. Simple as that. Quite niave from KR to keep same 11. What does he do Saturday now as solly & kashi probably need a rest
My issue is that we didn't match them for the tempo or intensity.
I can take a defeat and all credit to Wigan who were better than us, but I genuinely don't think anyone of those players can honestly say they gave 100% and that's where my agitations stem from
I would even go so far as to say that when we started rolling it out from the back and Amos was simply passing to Bauer etc in and around the edge of the area, we got our comeuppance for perhaps being a little too over confident we can play our way out from the back.
Only the third game of the season but for me, the two league games I've been to tell a story. Against an injury plagued Southend we fought very hard to break them down, scored 2 quick goals fortunately and ended up hanging on when they pulled one back. Last night we were outplayed by a superior team who wanted it more. We have a good 6 or 7 players and then we are paper thin. For all those that malign the protestors, of which I am one, this shows very clearly where we are under Dutchalet. A man who has the financial clout to back us to be a competitive Championship side and here we are a league below and in my opinion looking out of sorts when faced against a team who slipped up last season in a bid to make the play offs and a relegated Championship side.
Not sure how exactly how many Wigan had in the away end last night but other than "doing a job on us", you can see why there wasn't that many there. It's been a while since I've seen a side set out to physically stop us adding in a number of auditions for the next spoof football injury video collection. It was just a shame that the dreadful ref fell for it hook line and sinker.
Off to Gillingham on Saturday, lets hope we can put them to bed in quick time, we certainly should have the clout to do so !
The squad is not strong enough to play 3 games a week. Simple as that. Quite niave from KR to keep same 11. What does he do Saturday now as solly & kashi probably need a rest
Saturday Tuesday Saturday Tuesday. It's only 2 games a week not 3. And it's the same for all clubs
Comments
I think the reaction on here is worry that this is the start of what has happened every season under RD with a paper-thin squad.
Never good to get beaten by a team who you are hoping to be competing with at the top of the table, especially when they spank you at home.
Wigan, histrionics apart, were miles better than us & IMHO looked a class side that belongs in the Championship.
I have no idea whether the Northerners were able to hold on to their stronger players following relegation but their rapport on the pitch was paramount, whereas our lads on occasion appeared not to have been introduced to one another.
I can accept defeat by a superior team but tonight was very disappointing & I felt for those that had made the effort to attend after boycotting, or indeed after making a belated decision to purchase a season ticket. This performance will hardly tempt the former to repeat the exercise.....
My thoughts, for what they are worth, echo those of earlier posters. Wigan fielded a team of tall, strong players, making ours appear lightweight & easily knocked off the ball. Long balls to Big Josh were invariably headed back from whence they came with some ease and hence our striker was able to show little of his attributes & was rarely a force to be reckoned with tonight. This, for me is as worrying as KR's blinkered approach to the match of no Plan B ( "One plan, he's only got one plan ...etc ")
In addition, sadly, our current bench is hardly going to worry the opposition. RD's Scrooge like tendencies have left us in a sorry state until Reeves and/or Marshall are fit for purpose whilst a red card to our Rickeeee or an injury to our lone striker doesn't bear thinking about.
So, our first home defeat of the season and although Wigan may well prove to be champions in waiting, warning bells are beginning to tinkle....3 goals conceded tonight (albeit in conditions more suited to the hardy Northerners) for the second time in 3 matches must concern the gaffer whoever is the opposition. This squad of players needs to show more character ( balls!) and resilience when the first goal is conceded. I, for one, couldn't see where an equaliser would come from whilst no-one could accuse the faithful of not getting behind their team.
Let's hope that some important lessons have been learned tonight which will stand the lads & their coaches in good stead for the coming months.We are all too aware that it's a marathon, not a sprint and it's far too soon to "hit the wall".....
I am keeping the faith but tonight was a reality check for sure with certain frailties identified.
Let's hope both spirits and our points total rise on Saturday as the inevitable cold wind blows around the nether regions of the travelling fans in that awful "stand".
Time for Fanny's thermal G string !
We are better than that...
However it's the other garbage in this League we need to keep continuing to put away, starting with the rubbish this Saturday.
Started the season hoping for the playoffs, but reassessed to automatic promotion after 6 games. Following the 7th game I’m back to the playoff target. However, I know the Gillingham game will either endorse that view … or break me as a human being.
Id be surprised to see him rested, they've all got three days now before their next game so plenty of time to recover
He started the season our best player. There will be a reason he's taken a sudden dip in form.
Chelsea fans wouldn't brush it off if they lost 3-0 at home to Man City so why should we in the equivalent scenario?
Robinson himself said that team (if stayed injury free) would go up automatically so it needs to be backed up with performances against our self-proclaimed league rivals.
https://www.cafc.co.uk/news/view/59b85398d3e4a/robinson-on-defeat-to-wigan-athletic
Technically we are not good enough to outplay teams and we lack physical presence. Our bench looks very inexperienced and I think this will be a long hard season.
I think some people did see it coming. As I said, the 3 conceded at Oldham was worrying. Southend got at us last Saturday and with a bit more luck would have beaten us. I sometimes look at players marks and think people score a lot of the time depending on the result. Take Kashi for instance. I admit I haven't seen him play as often as some have. To me he looks weak and is often caught out of position. We watched him closely last night and he looks great going forward, but lost when the opposition attack. We lack power and height. We can be outmuscled and always struggle from set pieces and corners. In my opinion ( not based on one match ) we need more bite in midfield and more power in other positions. But, what do I know.
What really f****d me off about the night after really enjoying the start to the season though was the reminder of all the things I've grown to dislike about this league/football in general (delete as appropriate):
1. The sly underhand cheating and time wasting by a nasty team who were allowed to get away with it by a turd of a referee. Powell in particular was a constant pain in the wotsit off the ball to Kashi especially (standing on his toes, shoving him, etc). Sure we were well beaten by a much better side, but they are a horrible bunch. Hope they come unstuck.
2. The fact that we allowed ourselves to be suckered by their underhand tactics. We are too nice. If I reluctantly accept that all the stuff at 1 above goes on, can we at least be as good at it as everyone else seems to be?
3. A quarter full Valley (despite the fact that the majority thankfully stayed behind the team). On a filthy night its a constant reminder of what we have become and the reasons for it. Fit and proper my arse!
4. The shallowness of it all. Win and we get a post match huddle and much milking of the applause. A pasting and we slink off heads down with the manager making sure he goes just in front of the ref who collects all the boos.
5. The standard of officials. We would probably have been turned over regardless last night so this isn't a complaint about bias. It's about competence. If we could so clearly see all the stuff I've mentioned above, why can't four officials who are supposed to be professionals see it too? And on the assumption that the can see it, why don't they do anything about it? It's spoiling the game.
All in all, probably just as well to have the reality check early although the week after I buy a season ticket is a bummer. But we still very much have it in us to make this season interesting and be up there at the end. I suspect Wigan will be a class apart with no more e than a couple of others. But there is a lot of dross and we are better than that. Last night though was a painful reminder of our weaknesses. I suspected beforehand that this might be the game where our great start faltered but I didn't expect our surrender to be so meek or the drubbing to be so complete (should have been five or six).
Went straight from work so felt a bit of a prune in a suit and went into Crossbars for a pint and a burger (yes, I know......). Queued up at the bit where it said in tall letters "order here" only to be told I then had to order elsewhere. Then stood in a line of blokes holding plates of burger and chips while the poor girl on the till had to use a calculator to work out £10 minus £6.80. She did this for every customer and then proceeded to give us all back £3.80 in change. If it wasn't so depressing it would have been funny. It it wasn't Roland's money I'd have given her the 60p back too.
Still much happier than I was last season but a bounce back is required.
We have no plan B.
We appear to have no options of the bench that are going to improve the starting eleven.
Not going to single any player out as it was pretty tepid all round, players that loooked good on Saturday looked awful on Tuesday.
Not going over the top, but maybe consistent inconsistency is what we've got to get used to, shock to the system, a wake up call, whatever you want to call it, it will be interesting to see how the players and manager react to this, of course they won't be happy, but they've got to stick together and learn from this.
I thought Wigan had some big units in their team and we couldn't live with them.
Also thought the weather conditions meant this was almost like a home game for Wigan.
The fickle bus is back in the garage for an MOT , lets hope it passes!
The negative was that despite it being obvious, there wasn't much Robinson could do to be fair. Had we scored from our chance, they may have become less tight and it could have been different, but we didn't deserve anything from the game. We don't have the players/squad to implement a plan B. The positive is how many teams are equipped to do that to us?
No need to panic and Wigan aren't world beaters, just they were opponents that didn't suit us.
I can take a defeat and all credit to Wigan who were better than us, but I genuinely don't think anyone of those players can honestly say they gave 100% and that's where my agitations stem from
I would even go so far as to say that when we started rolling it out from the back and Amos was simply passing to Bauer etc in and around the edge of the area, we got our comeuppance for perhaps being a little too over confident we can play our way out from the back.
That's where my gripe lies
I know we're better than that in terms of effort
Not sure how exactly how many Wigan had in the away end last night but other than "doing a job on us", you can see why there wasn't that many there. It's been a while since I've seen a side set out to physically stop us adding in a number of auditions for the next spoof football injury video collection. It was just a shame that the dreadful ref fell for it hook line and sinker.
Off to Gillingham on Saturday, lets hope we can put them to bed in quick time, we certainly should have the clout to do so !
It's only 2 games a week not 3.
And it's the same for all clubs