I know it's RD's responsibility but what's to stop the Aussies just paying off the ex-directors?
Maybe they don't want to as they are paying nearly double what he did for the club anyway and he agreed he would prior to promotion or maybe........I have no idea as usual it is all a mess.
Don't want the Aussies either tbh, sounds like things wont be any different, certainly doubt our budget will be any bigger, but at least Roland will be gone I suppose, small mercies and all that!
how can you assume that? How do you know what their budget will be?
Don't want the Aussies either tbh, sounds like things wont be any different, certainly doubt our budget will be any bigger, but at least Roland will be gone I suppose, small mercies and all that!
how can you assume that? How do you know what their budget will be?
Don't assume anything, and I hope I'm wrong, just have a bad feeling about this consortium but as I said hope I'm wrong and all is good.
Skepticism is healthy after all this club has been through. Only thing I’ll say is that these people aren’t crooks. Whether they’re any good at running a football club we’ll find out if the buy us. My advice will 100% be to put their trust in Lee Bowyer and his team.
£33m seems almost fair, maybe a bit high but wouldn't include the ex director debts.
For £35m they could clear the problem debts and I'd welcome them if they do that...
for £35m they couldn’t :-(
Well done Jimmy, you were the first person to mention 33 million and of course people doubted you because the price of 65 million had been mentioned. Also 7 million is the loans outstanding, so like a lottery no win, why can't we have a roll over, or a 40 million offer to have a fresh start.
I know it's RD's responsibility but what's to stop the Aussies just paying off the ex-directors?
Nothing and GM has been in contact with them however if cleared in full that's likely to be £7m out of the operating budget.
http://www.votvonline.com/ 'As a consequence, Murphy made contact with the ex-directors named above for the first time at the start of last week and an offer was made to buy the loans out for half their face value, which was rejected. They were then offered 25% in return for the surrender of their charges over the assets, but with the balance on promotion to the Premier League. That would leave the remaining 75% as unsecured debt, with a significant risk that it would be wiped out if the club got into financial difficulties'.
Anyone scratching their head on our current predicament may find this useful.
Currently Charlton has higher debts than the value of the business, as there is more debt on the balance sheet than people are prepared to pay. As a result Charlton is technically insolvent and is only not declared insolvent because RD guarantees to pumps money in each year to stop it doing so. We all understand the consequences of Charlton being declared insolvent in terms of points deductions etc. This is pretty much the same for all football clubs that are taken over outside of the premier league as almost all are run at a loss, even if they meet the obligations of FFP.
In the real world, if you owned a factory in the same situation you'd put the business into administration and sell the business to the new company. All of the creditors at that point would get back less than they were owned. With the taxman and secured creditors first in the queue and unsecured creditors at the back of the line. At that point the new owners would have paid the businesses worth and own the business with a clean slate from that point on.
Alternatively they could buy the business for a £1 (as you see on the news all the time, recently with British Steel) in return for the business keeping some or all of those debts on the balance sheet. The new owners would have paid less cash up front, but they would need to convince the existing creditors to back their business plan and vision in order for them to get paid. Often in this scenario, this deal is the only game in town.
It sounds like RD is putting pressure on the ex Directors to accept less than their due, so that they share the pain of his mismanagement. However they are first in the queue so if the unthinkable happened and we were declared insolvent that would be very likely to get their money back as the value of the assets (Sparrows lane and the Valley) far outweigh the value of their loans. If they do take less than they are owed then they are being very generous in my opinion.
Its unusual to buy a business with contingent liabilities like the loans we have as generally, if you are paying a substantial amount, you want clean title to the assets. RD gets blamed for not doing thorough DD on the way in, though I would suggest what he paid for club was lower than its worth so these loans must have been factored in in the price he paid. They now seem to be a bit of an albatross round his neck as it seems the buyers aren't seeing it the same way as he did on the way in.
The taxman is no longer 1st in the queue. Joins rest of the mortals in the divi up after secure loans have got their money. Banks must not be allowed to lose mone
Anyone scratching their head on our current predicament may find this useful.
Currently Charlton has higher debts than the value of the business, as there is more debt on the balance sheet than people are prepared to pay. As a result Charlton is technically insolvent and is only not declared insolvent because RD guarantees to pumps money in each year to stop it doing so. We all understand the consequences of Charlton being declared insolvent in terms of points deductions etc. This is pretty much the same for all football clubs that are taken over outside of the premier league as almost all are run at a loss, even if they meet the obligations of FFP.
In the real world, if you owned a factory in the same situation you'd put the business into administration and sell the business to the new company. All of the creditors at that point would get back less than they were owned. With the taxman and secured creditors first in the queue and unsecured creditors at the back of the line. At that point the new owners would have paid the businesses worth and own the business with a clean slate from that point on.
Alternatively they could buy the business for a £1 (as you see on the news all the time, recently with British Steel) in return for the business keeping some or all of those debts on the balance sheet. The new owners would have paid less cash up front, but they would need to convince the existing creditors to back their business plan and vision in order for them to get paid. Often in this scenario, this deal is the only game in town.
It sounds like RD is putting pressure on the ex Directors to accept less than their due, so that they share the pain of his mismanagement. However they are first in the queue so if the unthinkable happened and we were declared insolvent that would be very likely to get their money back as the value of the assets (Sparrows lane and the Valley) far outweigh the value of their loans. If they do take less than they are owed then they are being very generous in my opinion.
Its unusual to buy a business with contingent liabilities like the loans we have as generally, if you are paying a substantial amount, you want clean title to the assets. RD gets blamed for not doing thorough DD on the way in, though I would suggest what he paid for club was lower than its worth so these loans must have been factored in in the price he paid. They now seem to be a bit of an albatross round his neck as it seems the buyers aren't seeing it the same way as he did on the way in.
The taxman is no longer 1st in the queue. Joins rest of the mortals in the divi up after secure loans have got their money. Banks must not be allowed to lose mone
For the moment yes, however at Budget 2018, the government announced that it will introduce legislation in Finance Bill 2019 to 2020 to make HM Revenue and Customs ( HMRC ) a secondarypreferential creditor for certain tax debts paid by employees and customers on the insolvency of a business.
Is it not possible for businesses to sign some sort of pre contract for an agreed deal ? How is it possible that RD can change the terms of the deal ? Is buying a business the same as UK property purchase ? The seller can change the price at any time or even no longer sell, prior to exchange of contracts ?
I know it's RD's responsibility but what's to stop the Aussies just paying off the ex-directors?
Nothing and GM has been in contact with them however if cleared in full that's likely to be £7m out of the operating budget.
http://www.votvonline.com/ 'As a consequence, Murphy made contact with the ex-directors named above for the first time at the start of last week and an offer was made to buy the loans out for half their face value, which was rejected. They were then offered 25% in return for the surrender of their charges over the assets, but with the balance on promotion to the Premier League. That would leave the remaining 75% as unsecured debt, with a significant risk that it would be wiped out if the club got into financial difficulties'.
I know it's RD's responsibility but what's to stop the Aussies just paying off the ex-directors?
Nothing and GM has been in contact with them however if cleared in full that's likely to be £7m out of the operating budget.
http://www.votvonline.com/ 'As a consequence, Murphy made contact with the ex-directors named above for the first time at the start of last week and an offer was made to buy the loans out for half their face value, which was rejected. They were then offered 25% in return for the surrender of their charges over the assets, but with the balance on promotion to the Premier League. That would leave the remaining 75% as unsecured debt, with a significant risk that it would be wiped out if the club got into financial difficulties'.
£33m seems almost fair, maybe a bit high but wouldn't include the ex director debts.
For £35m they could clear the problem debts and I'd welcome them if they do that...
for £35m they couldn’t :-(
According to Airman's article isn't it just over £2m that's a problem? Even if we call it £36m so an additional 9ish% that would hopefully be achievable.
I know it's RD's responsibility but what's to stop the Aussies just paying off the ex-directors?
Nothing and GM has been in contact with them however if cleared in full that's likely to be £7m out of the operating budget.
http://www.votvonline.com/ 'As a consequence, Murphy made contact with the ex-directors named above for the first time at the start of last week and an offer was made to buy the loans out for half their face value, which was rejected. They were then offered 25% in return for the surrender of their charges over the assets, but with the balance on promotion to the Premier League. That would leave the remaining 75% as unsecured debt, with a significant risk that it would be wiped out if the club got into financial difficulties'.
7 million is a conciderable amount of money I must admit. But it's still a relatively small amount when you consider how much the overall cost is of buying the club. I know this 7 million is Rolands dept and it's his fault for not doing DD properly. But if Roland is serious about selling and if the Aussies are serious about buying I see no reason why a compromise cannot be reached. None of this makes sense to me.
We were told by a joint party statement some time ago (RD & Aussies), that a price was agreed and told that the Aussies only had to submit papers to the EFL.
A price wasn't mentioned but I think it's reasonable to assume it was @£65M.
So if RD has reneged on a new deal, by effectively upping the price by £7M to £40M, why is there a new deal in any case, if £65M was agreed. ?
I'm thinking aloud, not defending RD and/or criticising the Aussies.
But don’t think it ends there folks. Please bear in mind that what goes on behind the scenes can be more complex than it seems from the outside. Also bear in mind how little face time there has been between Roland and Gerard. Despite that, much of the info Gerard receives comes from Roland, Murray or Lieven, so I’d ask for understanding if things can look a little odd at times.
But don’t think it ends there folks. Please bear in mind that what goes on behind the scenes can be more complex than it seems from the outside. Also bear in mind how little face time there has been between Roland and Gerard. Despite that, much of the info Gerard receives comes from Roland, Murray or Lieven, so I’d ask for understanding if things can look a little odd at times.
We are being patient. Look how patient we are being.
But don’t think it ends there folks. Please bear in mind that what goes on behind the scenes can be more complex than it seems from the outside. Also bear in mind how little face time there has been between Roland and Gerard. Despite that, much of the info Gerard receives comes from Roland, Murray or Lieven, so I’d ask for understanding if things can look a little odd at times.
But don’t think it ends there folks. Please bear in mind that what goes on behind the scenes can be more complex than it seems from the outside. Also bear in mind how little face time there has been between Roland and Gerard. Despite that, much of the info Gerard receives comes from Roland, Murray or Lieven, so I’d ask for understanding if things can look a little odd at times.
We are being patient. Look how patient we are being.
Comments
Only thing I’ll say is that these people aren’t crooks. Whether they’re any good at running a football club we’ll find out if the buy us. My advice will 100% be to put their trust in Lee Bowyer and his team.
Also 7 million is the loans outstanding, so like a lottery no win, why can't we have a roll over, or a 40 million offer to have a fresh start.
http://www.votvonline.com/
'As a consequence, Murphy made contact with the ex-directors named above for the first time at the start of last week and an offer was made to buy the loans out for half their face value, which was rejected. They were then offered 25% in return for the surrender of their charges over the assets, but with the balance on promotion to the Premier League. That would leave the remaining 75% as unsecured debt, with a significant risk that it would be wiped out if the club got into financial difficulties'.
How is it possible that RD can change the terms of the deal ?
Is buying a business the same as UK property purchase ?
The seller can change the price at any time or even no longer sell, prior to exchange of contracts ?
But it's still a relatively small amount when you consider how much the overall cost is of buying the club.
I know this 7 million is Rolands dept and it's his fault for not doing DD properly.
But if Roland is serious about selling and if the Aussies are serious about buying I see no reason why a compromise cannot be reached.
None of this makes sense to me.
We were told by a joint party statement some time ago (RD & Aussies), that a price was agreed and told that the Aussies only had to submit papers to the EFL.
A price wasn't mentioned but I think it's reasonable to assume it was @£65M.
So if RD has reneged on a new deal, by effectively upping the price by £7M to £40M, why is there a new deal in any case, if £65M was agreed. ?
I'm thinking aloud, not defending RD and/or criticising the Aussies.
None of this makes sense !