The bit I don't understand is £7million is small change to both parties. RD is into this by about £70million, the buyer needs to have £200million minimum to invest.
Also if there is a buyer that's prepared to pay circa £35ish million now they won't pay anywhere near that for a league 2 team and RD must know that?
I was going to say that RD should be trying to sell NOW, as the business could reduduce in value at a 12 million cost over the next 12 months.
The bit I don't understand is £7million is small change to both parties. RD is into this by about £70million, the buyer needs to have £200million minimum to invest.
Also if there is a buyer that's prepared to pay circa £35ish million now they won't pay anywhere near that for a league 2 team and RD must know that?
I was going to say that RD should be trying to sell NOW, as the business could reduduce in value at a 12 million cost over the next 12 months.
It stinks it really does.
£7m small change? Can you let me have a grand?
If both parties paid half each. 3.5 million each that is small change when it comes to buying a football club. That cannot be the reason this takeover hasn't happened
The 5 year plan, will have a massive wasted first the way this is going, so a 4 year plan from League 2 is going to be a horror show
Even the Jimmy Seed didn't get promoted in his first season.
But don't rule it out next season.
Getting out of League 2 at the first attempt would be the basic requirement
I’ve just been cheered up by a visit to the transfer thread. It might be easier for Bowyer to sell the Aussies to potential players, than it was to sell Roland?
They have to buy the club for him to be able to do that.
The bit I don't understand is £7million is small change to both parties. RD is into this by about £70million, the buyer needs to have £200million minimum to invest.
Also if there is a buyer that's prepared to pay circa £35ish million now they won't pay anywhere near that for a league 2 team and RD must know that?
I was going to say that RD should be trying to sell NOW, as the business could reduduce in value at a 12 million cost over the next 12 months.
It stinks it really does.
£7m small change? Can you let me have a grand?
If both parties paid half each. 3.5 million each that is small change when it comes to buying a football club. That cannot be the reason this takeover hasn't happened
So I'm selling you a house for £350,000, which is over priced for the area, but you see some potential in the property.
Then I tell you, by the way I have 70k left on the mortgage, do you fancy paying half that off for me, on top of the already expensive asking price?
The 5 year plan, will have a massive wasted first the way this is going, so a 4 year plan from League 2 is going to be a horror show
Such a pertinent point.
Paying well over the odds for a club that is ,quite possibly under the circumstances, staring over the league 2 barrell.
You'd have to be more bloody mental than Duchatelet wouldn't you?
There's been very little interest for a reason.
Surely the problem though is that there HAS been some interest in Roland's price. If every potential buyer had pulled out 6-9 months over the price, Roland would have had to reduce it.
The bit I don't understand is £7million is small change to both parties. RD is into this by about £70million, the buyer needs to have £200million minimum to invest.
Also if there is a buyer that's prepared to pay circa £35ish million now they won't pay anywhere near that for a league 2 team and RD must know that?
I was going to say that RD should be trying to sell NOW, as the business could reduduce in value at a 12 million cost over the next 12 months.
It stinks it really does.
£7m small change? Can you let me have a grand?
If both parties paid half each. 3.5 million each that is small change when it comes to buying a football club. That cannot be the reason this takeover hasn't happened
So I'm selling you a house for £350,000, which is over priced for the area, but you see some potential in the property.
Then I tell you, by the way I have 70k left on the mortgage, do you fancy paying half that off for me, on top of the already expensive asking price?
The 5 year plan, will have a massive wasted first the way this is going, so a 4 year plan from League 2 is going to be a horror show
Such a pertinent point.
Paying well over the odds for a club that is ,quite possibly under the circumstances, staring over the league 2 barrell.
You'd have to be more bloody mental than Duchatelet wouldn't you?
There's been very little interest for a reason.
Surely the problem though is that there HAS been some interest in Roland's price. If every potential buyer had pulled out 6-9 months over the price, Roland would have had to reduce it.
It’s inconceivable that these weren’t known about or picked up early in due diligence. They are not a surprise to any serious buyer.
Their value in 2018 is not £7m - because they cannot be called in. The chances of them ever getting paid out in full accordIng to the agreed terms are limited. Hence they are not worth 100 per cent of the sum owed at present. But 25% is a derisory offer.
A number of the relevant ex-directors - probably the majority - detest and distrust Richard Murray. They will be disinclined to do any deal which benefits him, for example facilitates him continuing on the board. If they think that is a possible outcome they will likely hold out for 100 per cent regardless. Murray was involved in making this 25% offer, which is a bit surprising given RD has his own channels of communication to them.
I am generally sympathetic to the ex-directors. A vast amount of money was written off by them pre-2010 and in this case it is Duchatelet asking them to pay for his mistakes, not their own. So I understand why some of them say they won’t do a deal, but I still think in the right situation they would. And that’s from talking directly to a number of them over recent months and years.
The other thing to bear in mind with the ex-directors we're still a million miles away from The Premier League and the ex-directors aren't getting any younger so I can understand if some wanted to consider an offer although 25% is derisory.
If we get relegated this season that 5 year plan to reach the Prem could easily become 8+ years and that would surely force there hand possibly into accepting a reduced offer not that I think it would be right.
It’s inconceivable that these weren’t known about or picked up early in due diligence. They are not a surprise to any serious buyer.
Their value in 2018 is not £7m - because they cannot be called in. The chances of them ever getting paid out in full accordIng to the agreed terms are limited. Hence they are not worth 100 per cent of the sum owed at present. But 25% is a derisory offer.
A number of the relevant ex-directors - probably the majority - detest and distrust Richard Murray. They will be disinclined to do any deal which benefits him, for example facilitates him continuing on the board. If they think that is a possible outcome they will likely hold out for 100 per cent regardless. Murray was involved in making this 25% offer, which is a bit surprising given RD has his own channels of communication to them.
I am generally sympathetic to the ex-directors. A vast amount of money was written off by them pre-2010 and in this case it is Duchatelet asking them to pay for his mistakes, not their own. So I understand why some of them say they won’t do a deal, but I still think in the right situation they would. And that’s from talking directly to a number of them over recent months and years.
To be clear are you stating all of them were offered 25% by RD but via RM?
If so how long ago was this?
Moving on from those questions are you stating you believe the Aussies require this obligation to be satisfied before they complete any deal ? This notwithstanding the FF minutes/report which suggests these loans are not an issue. If this is the case what is your rationale/ source over the issued statement ?
And finally why would a place on the board for RM be perceived as an issue for them when he has that now?
Belgian's are difficult people to do deals with! My mother used to work high up at Toyota UK and she told me that they are the most difficult people! Very arrogant know it alls! She said they where the worst people she's met and some deals with during her time at Toyota! I'm know not all Belgian's all like that coz we have had holidays in Oste end(spelling) and Brugge and the people were nice so it much be a business thing!
I don't know about Belgians, but the French think all Englishmen wear pinstripe suits and bowler hats.
I think the main question is if, and it is a big if, Roland has walked are the Aussies ready to step in and get their wallets out because they seem reluctant up to now.
What brings you to say that they're reluctant to "get their wallets out"? Is it simply that the sale hasn't yet been completed? (In which case you could say that about any of the supposed "number" of consortia that have been in talks). Or do you have information that indicates that a price has been agreed, all legal issues have been finalised and the only hold up is that the Aussie consortium has refused to complete the agreed deal?
No insider info Chizz, just a gut feeling. If Muir was asking me to be one of the investors my two main questions would be what is the risk & when will I see a return on my money.
He must be struggling to answer those questions at the moment looking at the state of the club and sadly things appear to be getting worse by the week if the rumours are to be believed.
Sorry, but this just way off the mark. The current state of the club has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Good then I am happy to be proved wrong. I am sure all will be revealed one day James so we can all see for ourselves what has really gone on instead of all the "in the know" gossip.
Sorry, didn’t mean to sound snappy. I’m very keen not to be seen as ITK and always pass on anything I get from GM that’s appropriate. I’ve today asked for a hint about timescale, but doubt very much that I’ll get one. WIOTOS, unfortunately.
It’s inconceivable that these weren’t known about or picked up early in due diligence. They are not a surprise to any serious buyer.
Their value in 2018 is not £7m - because they cannot be called in. The chances of them ever getting paid out in full accordIng to the agreed terms are limited. Hence they are not worth 100 per cent of the sum owed at present. But 25% is a derisory offer.
A number of the relevant ex-directors - probably the majority - detest and distrust Richard Murray. They will be disinclined to do any deal which benefits him, for example facilitates him continuing on the board. If they think that is a possible outcome they will likely hold out for 100 per cent regardless. Murray was involved in making this 25% offer, which is a bit surprising given RD has his own channels of communication to them.
I am generally sympathetic to the ex-directors. A vast amount of money was written off by them pre-2010 and in this case it is Duchatelet asking them to pay for his mistakes, not their own. So I understand why some of them say they won’t do a deal, but I still think in the right situation they would. And that’s from talking directly to a number of them over recent months and years.
To be clear are you stating all of them were offered 25% by RD but via RM?
If so how long ago was this?
Moving on from those questions are you stating you believe the Aussies require this obligation to be satisfied before they complete any deal ? This notwithstanding the FF minutes/report which suggests these loans are not an issue. If this is the case what is your rationale/ source over the issued statement ?
And finally why would a place on the board for RM be perceived as an issue for them when he has that now?
Yes I am mindful I post multiple questions!
No offer had ever been made prior to June 2018 to pay off the loans - the offer when made was 25% and Murray was involved in communicating about it. Whose money it was is unclear.
Two Aussie sources have said privately that the club’s statement at the FF that the loans are not an issue is incorrect - although they are not the only issue (EFL paperwork being another).
The ex-directors had no leverage on whether Murray was on Duchatelet’s board; if they have leverage now I would expect some of them to use it. There is a lot of personal animosity towards Murray out there.
Thank you for the clarity. You assert the current public statements categorically cannot be trusted. That is for me interesting and I assume why you and CARD take the stance you do.
For those of us less knowledgable you’ll appreciate it’s difficult to form the same view without the same insight.
The 5 year plan, will have a massive wasted first the way this is going, so a 4 year plan from League 2 is going to be a horror show
Even the Jimmy Seed didn't get promoted in his first season.
But don't rule it out next season.
Getting out of League 2 at the first attempt would be the basic requirement
I’ve just been cheered up by a visit to the transfer thread. It might be easier for Bowyer to sell the Aussies to potential players, than it was to sell Roland?
They have to buy the club for him to be able to do that.
Thank you for the clarity. You assert the current public statements categorically cannot be trusted. That is for me interesting and I assume why you and CARD take the stance you do.
For those of us less knowledgable you’ll appreciate it’s difficult to form the same view without the same insight.
I actually put more weight on the club’s statements about the process, such as they are, than many on here. I think they are mostly accurate when made, but obviously incomplete and sometimes spun.
I don’t doubt, for example, that Murray believed a deal would be done in February. It was never in his interest to make that up.
In this case I’m not sure RD’s negotiator is fully able to speak to what the Aussies’ concerns may be. That doesn’t make him dishonest, just that what he perceives their position to be may be wrong. He doesn’t speak for them, after all.
Thank you for the clarity. You assert the current public statements categorically cannot be trusted. That is for me interesting and I assume why you and CARD take the stance you do.
For those of us less knowledgable you’ll appreciate it’s difficult to form the same view without the same insight.
I actually put more weight on the club’s statements about the process, such as they are, than many on here. I think they are mostly accurate when made, but obviously incomplete and sometimes spun.
I don’t doubt, for example, that Murray believed a deal would be done in February. It was never in his interest to make that up.
In this case I’m not sure RD’s negotiator is fully able to speak to what the Aussies’ concerns may be. That doesn’t make him dishonest, just that what he perceives their position to be may be wrong. He doesn’t speak for them, after all.
Perception is reality. As you suggest makes no one dishonest.
FFS. Both sides have stated tbat the price has been agreed. The £7m loans were known b4 they made their statements. Only repayable in the Prem. Costing £1-2m to repay earlier than the 5 year plan to top flight. This issue is not a deal breaker unless someone ITK says it is. Stop speculating on stuff with no logical basis.
FFS. Both sides have stated tbat the price has been agreed. The £7m loans were known b4 they made their statements. Only repayable in the Prem. Costing £1-2m to repay earlier than the 5 year plan to top flight. This issue is not a deal breaker unless someone ITK says it is. Stop speculating on stuff with no logical basis.
It’s inconceivable that these weren’t known about or picked up early in due diligence. They are not a surprise to any serious buyer.
Their value in 2018 is not £7m - because they cannot be called in. The chances of them ever getting paid out in full accordIng to the agreed terms are limited. Hence they are not worth 100 per cent of the sum owed at present. But 25% is a derisory offer.
A number of the relevant ex-directors - probably the majority - detest and distrust Richard Murray. They will be disinclined to do any deal which benefits him, for example facilitates him continuing on the board. If they think that is a possible outcome they will likely hold out for 100 per cent regardless. Murray was involved in making this 25% offer, which is a bit surprising given RD has his own channels of communication to them.
I am generally sympathetic to the ex-directors. A vast amount of money was written off by them pre-2010 and in this case it is Duchatelet asking them to pay for his mistakes, not their own. So I understand why some of them say they won’t do a deal, but I still think in the right situation they would. And that’s from talking directly to a number of them over recent months and years.
The smart ones will never take a discount , none of them need the money as all very rich in their own right. If it ever goes into admin there money is safe and they could then do a deal to own the Club with the Administrator if that was their desire, that’s probably the only time they would do a deal. As you rightly say, why should they take a discount for Rolands mistakes. As to their opinion of Murray, they all resigned when he took control in 2010, that says it all.
FFS. Both sides have stated tbat the price has been agreed. The £7m loans were known b4 they made their statements. Only repayable in the Prem. Costing £1-2m to repay earlier than the 5 year plan to top flight. This issue is not a deal breaker unless someone ITK says it is. Stop speculating on stuff with no logical basis.
So why was an offer finally made in June 2018?
Source? What does it matter when the bid was made? I suspect much before June, Charlton scarf time.
Amazing how Muir's sale of 'The good guys' somewhat mimics Duchatelets sale of Charlton. Initially vastly overpriced and on the market for a sustained period. He also had to buy back co-owned stores linked to the business before he could sell.
Comments
3.5 million each that is small change when it comes to buying a football club. That cannot be the reason this takeover hasn't happened
How many clubs have a genius like Duchatelet in control?
Then I tell you, by the way I have 70k left on the mortgage, do you fancy paying half that off for me, on top of the already expensive asking price?
Paying well over the odds for a club that is ,quite possibly under the circumstances, staring over the league 2 barrell.
You'd have to be more bloody mental than Duchatelet wouldn't you?
There's been very little interest for a reason.
;-)
Hence why no f***** has payed it!
It’s inconceivable that these weren’t known about or picked up early in due diligence. They are not a surprise to any serious buyer.
Their value in 2018 is not £7m - because they cannot be called in. The chances of them ever getting paid out in full accordIng to the agreed terms are limited. Hence they are not worth 100 per cent of the sum owed at present. But 25% is a derisory offer.
A number of the relevant ex-directors - probably the majority - detest and distrust Richard Murray. They will be disinclined to do any deal which benefits him, for example facilitates him continuing on the board. If they think that is a possible outcome they will likely hold out for 100 per cent regardless. Murray was involved in making this 25% offer, which is a bit surprising given RD has his own channels of communication to them.
I am generally sympathetic to the ex-directors. A vast amount of money was written off by them pre-2010 and in this case it is Duchatelet asking them to pay for his mistakes, not their own. So I understand why some of them say they won’t do a deal, but I still think in the right situation they would. And that’s from talking directly to a number of them over recent months and years.
#TeamWIOTOS
If we get relegated this season that 5 year plan to reach the Prem could easily become 8+ years and that would surely force there hand possibly into accepting a reduced offer not that I think it would be right.
If so how long ago was this?
Moving on from those questions are you stating you believe the Aussies require this obligation to be satisfied before they complete any deal ? This notwithstanding the FF minutes/report which suggests these loans are not an issue. If this is the case what is your rationale/ source over the issued statement ?
And finally why would a place on the board for RM be perceived as an issue for them when he has that now?
Yes I am mindful I post multiple questions!
Two Aussie sources have said privately that the club’s statement at the FF that the loans are not an issue is incorrect - although they are not the only issue (EFL paperwork being another).
The ex-directors had no leverage on whether Murray was on Duchatelet’s board; if they have leverage now I would expect some of them to use it. There is a lot of personal animosity towards Murray out there.
Cried like a fucking crying thing watching that. My Dad's team, my team...thick and thin.... always will be. Bless you Dad. Xx
For those of us less knowledgable you’ll appreciate it’s difficult to form the same view without the same insight.
I don’t doubt, for example, that Murray believed a deal would be done in February. It was never in his interest to make that up.
In this case I’m not sure RD’s negotiator is fully able to speak to what the Aussies’ concerns may be. That doesn’t make him dishonest, just that what he perceives their position to be may be wrong. He doesn’t speak for them, after all.
If it ever goes into admin there money is safe and they could then do a deal to own the Club with the Administrator if that was their desire, that’s probably the only time they would do a deal.
As you rightly say, why should they take a discount for Rolands mistakes.
As to their opinion of Murray, they all resigned when he took control in 2010, that says it all.
Amazing how Muir's sale of 'The good guys' somewhat mimics Duchatelets sale of Charlton.
Initially vastly overpriced and on the market for a sustained period.
He also had to buy back co-owned stores linked to the business before he could sell.
You know. A bit like ex-directors loans!