I think the main question is if, and it is a big if, Roland has walked are the Aussies ready to step in and get their wallets out because they seem reluctant up to now.
What brings you to say that they're reluctant to "get their wallets out"? Is it simply that the sale hasn't yet been completed? (In which case you could say that about any of the supposed "number" of consortia that have been in talks). Or do you have information that indicates that a price has been agreed, all legal issues have been finalised and the only hold up is that the Aussie consortium has refused to complete the agreed deal?
No insider info Chizz, just a gut feeling. If Muir was asking me to be one of the investors my two main questions would be what is the risk & when will I see a return on my money.
He must be struggling to answer those questions at the moment looking at the state of the club and sadly things appear to be getting worse by the week if the rumours are to be believed.
Sorry, but this just way off the mark. The current state of the club has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Good then I am happy to be proved wrong. I am sure all will be revealed one day James so we can all see for ourselves what has really gone on instead of all the "in the know" gossip.
Sorry, didn’t mean to sound snappy. I’m very keen not to be seen as ITK and always pass on anything I get from GM that’s appropriate. I’ve today asked for a hint about timescale, but doubt very much that I’ll get one. WIOTOS, unfortunately.
It’s inconceivable that these weren’t known about or picked up early in due diligence. They are not a surprise to any serious buyer.
Their value in 2018 is not £7m - because they cannot be called in. The chances of them ever getting paid out in full accordIng to the agreed terms are limited. Hence they are not worth 100 per cent of the sum owed at present. But 25% is a derisory offer.
A number of the relevant ex-directors - probably the majority - detest and distrust Richard Murray. They will be disinclined to do any deal which benefits him, for example facilitates him continuing on the board. If they think that is a possible outcome they will likely hold out for 100 per cent regardless. Murray was involved in making this 25% offer, which is a bit surprising given RD has his own channels of communication to them.
I am generally sympathetic to the ex-directors. A vast amount of money was written off by them pre-2010 and in this case it is Duchatelet asking them to pay for his mistakes, not their own. So I understand why some of them say they won’t do a deal, but I still think in the right situation they would. And that’s from talking directly to a number of them over recent months and years.
To be clear are you stating all of them were offered 25% by RD but via RM?
If so how long ago was this?
Moving on from those questions are you stating you believe the Aussies require this obligation to be satisfied before they complete any deal ? This notwithstanding the FF minutes/report which suggests these loans are not an issue. If this is the case what is your rationale/ source over the issued statement ?
And finally why would a place on the board for RM be perceived as an issue for them when he has that now?
Yes I am mindful I post multiple questions!
No offer had ever been made prior to June 2018 to pay off the loans - the offer when made was 25% and Murray was involved in communicating about it. Whose money it was is unclear.
Two Aussie sources have said privately that the club’s statement at the FF that the loans are not an issue is incorrect - although they are not the only issue (EFL paperwork being another).
The ex-directors had no leverage on whether Murray was on Duchatelet’s board; if they have leverage now I would expect some of them to use it. There is a lot of personal animosity towards Murray out there.
Thank you for the clarity. You assert the current public statements categorically cannot be trusted. That is for me interesting and I assume why you and CARD take the stance you do.
For those of us less knowledgable you’ll appreciate it’s difficult to form the same view without the same insight.
The 5 year plan, will have a massive wasted first the way this is going, so a 4 year plan from League 2 is going to be a horror show
Even the Jimmy Seed didn't get promoted in his first season.
But don't rule it out next season.
Getting out of League 2 at the first attempt would be the basic requirement
I’ve just been cheered up by a visit to the transfer thread. It might be easier for Bowyer to sell the Aussies to potential players, than it was to sell Roland?
They have to buy the club for him to be able to do that.
Thank you for the clarity. You assert the current public statements categorically cannot be trusted. That is for me interesting and I assume why you and CARD take the stance you do.
For those of us less knowledgable you’ll appreciate it’s difficult to form the same view without the same insight.
I actually put more weight on the club’s statements about the process, such as they are, than many on here. I think they are mostly accurate when made, but obviously incomplete and sometimes spun.
I don’t doubt, for example, that Murray believed a deal would be done in February. It was never in his interest to make that up.
In this case I’m not sure RD’s negotiator is fully able to speak to what the Aussies’ concerns may be. That doesn’t make him dishonest, just that what he perceives their position to be may be wrong. He doesn’t speak for them, after all.
Thank you for the clarity. You assert the current public statements categorically cannot be trusted. That is for me interesting and I assume why you and CARD take the stance you do.
For those of us less knowledgable you’ll appreciate it’s difficult to form the same view without the same insight.
I actually put more weight on the club’s statements about the process, such as they are, than many on here. I think they are mostly accurate when made, but obviously incomplete and sometimes spun.
I don’t doubt, for example, that Murray believed a deal would be done in February. It was never in his interest to make that up.
In this case I’m not sure RD’s negotiator is fully able to speak to what the Aussies’ concerns may be. That doesn’t make him dishonest, just that what he perceives their position to be may be wrong. He doesn’t speak for them, after all.
Perception is reality. As you suggest makes no one dishonest.
FFS. Both sides have stated tbat the price has been agreed. The £7m loans were known b4 they made their statements. Only repayable in the Prem. Costing £1-2m to repay earlier than the 5 year plan to top flight. This issue is not a deal breaker unless someone ITK says it is. Stop speculating on stuff with no logical basis.
FFS. Both sides have stated tbat the price has been agreed. The £7m loans were known b4 they made their statements. Only repayable in the Prem. Costing £1-2m to repay earlier than the 5 year plan to top flight. This issue is not a deal breaker unless someone ITK says it is. Stop speculating on stuff with no logical basis.
It’s inconceivable that these weren’t known about or picked up early in due diligence. They are not a surprise to any serious buyer.
Their value in 2018 is not £7m - because they cannot be called in. The chances of them ever getting paid out in full accordIng to the agreed terms are limited. Hence they are not worth 100 per cent of the sum owed at present. But 25% is a derisory offer.
A number of the relevant ex-directors - probably the majority - detest and distrust Richard Murray. They will be disinclined to do any deal which benefits him, for example facilitates him continuing on the board. If they think that is a possible outcome they will likely hold out for 100 per cent regardless. Murray was involved in making this 25% offer, which is a bit surprising given RD has his own channels of communication to them.
I am generally sympathetic to the ex-directors. A vast amount of money was written off by them pre-2010 and in this case it is Duchatelet asking them to pay for his mistakes, not their own. So I understand why some of them say they won’t do a deal, but I still think in the right situation they would. And that’s from talking directly to a number of them over recent months and years.
The smart ones will never take a discount , none of them need the money as all very rich in their own right. If it ever goes into admin there money is safe and they could then do a deal to own the Club with the Administrator if that was their desire, that’s probably the only time they would do a deal. As you rightly say, why should they take a discount for Rolands mistakes. As to their opinion of Murray, they all resigned when he took control in 2010, that says it all.
FFS. Both sides have stated tbat the price has been agreed. The £7m loans were known b4 they made their statements. Only repayable in the Prem. Costing £1-2m to repay earlier than the 5 year plan to top flight. This issue is not a deal breaker unless someone ITK says it is. Stop speculating on stuff with no logical basis.
So why was an offer finally made in June 2018?
Source? What does it matter when the bid was made? I suspect much before June, Charlton scarf time.
Amazing how Muir's sale of 'The good guys' somewhat mimics Duchatelets sale of Charlton. Initially vastly overpriced and on the market for a sustained period. He also had to buy back co-owned stores linked to the business before he could sell.
FFS. Both sides have stated tbat the price has been agreed. The £7m loans were known b4 they made their statements. Only repayable in the Prem. Costing £1-2m to repay earlier than the 5 year plan to top flight. This issue is not a deal breaker unless someone ITK says it is. Stop speculating on stuff with no logical basis.
So why was an offer finally made in June 2018?
Source? What does it matter when the bid was made? I suspect much before June, Charlton scarf time.
It was made following the sale of Konsa. My source is multiple ex-directors.
FFS. Both sides have stated tbat the price has been agreed. The £7m loans were known b4 they made their statements. Only repayable in the Prem. Costing £1-2m to repay earlier than the 5 year plan to top flight. This issue is not a deal breaker unless someone ITK says it is. Stop speculating on stuff with no logical basis.
So why was an offer finally made in June 2018?
Source? What does it matter when the bid was made? I suspect much before June, Charlton scarf time.
It was made following the sale of Konsa. My source is multiple ex-directors.
So Muir spent over a million on DD and only made a bid for the Addicks in June? Do us a favour Rick. And what about the £7m that you keep saying is an issue. Did it only come to light after the bid in JUNE? Utter bollocks.
I suspect that when the consortium was set up someone, possibly Muir, laid down some ground rules. I suspect obtaining 'clean title' was one of them. So not easy to skip round issues like directors' loans, or other baggage from the past.
FFS. Both sides have stated tbat the price has been agreed. The £7m loans were known b4 they made their statements. Only repayable in the Prem. Costing £1-2m to repay earlier than the 5 year plan to top flight. This issue is not a deal breaker unless someone ITK says it is. Stop speculating on stuff with no logical basis.
So why was an offer finally made in June 2018?
Source? What does it matter when the bid was made? I suspect much before June, Charlton scarf time.
It was made following the sale of Konsa. My source is multiple ex-directors.
So Muir spent over a million on DD and only made a bid for the Addicks in June? Do us a favour Rick. And what about the £7m that you keep saying is an issue. Did it only come to light after the bid in JUNE? Utter bollocks.
The loans are what you were discussing and what I responded on. I’ve said above that the issue will always have been known about by any serious bidder. Hence the question - why was no attempt made to address it (with an offer of 25%) until June 2018? Why did it happen then? Something triggered it.
FFS. Both sides have stated tbat the price has been agreed. The £7m loans were known b4 they made their statements. Only repayable in the Prem. Costing £1-2m to repay earlier than the 5 year plan to top flight. This issue is not a deal breaker unless someone ITK says it is. Stop speculating on stuff with no logical basis.
So why was an offer finally made in June 2018?
Source? What does it matter when the bid was made? I suspect much before June, Charlton scarf time.
Wrong it was June and if you recall I posted they had till the 24th to make their decision
I refuse to believe Roland didn’t know about them I reckon he just thought the next owners should he sell would do the same as him and not do anything until the club reached the prem
Agree with @clem_snide I don’t live locally any more but I’m back this weekend visiting family. We drove past The Valley earlier and it was such a sad sight. Or maybe, feeling. The ground still fills me with pride. But....How has it been allowed for our club to be treated like this? We’re being left to die and that cannot be acceptable for any club, let alone one with our history. If the Aussies are playing a waiting game then maybe they should fk off and buy some other club. One that isn’t as big as us. If they’re not and it’s RD running us into the ground, then he is pure evil. But either way, it’s time the record was put straight. And not in some bullshit statement or half arsed meeting.
FFS. Both sides have stated tbat the price has been agreed. The £7m loans were known b4 they made their statements. Only repayable in the Prem. Costing £1-2m to repay earlier than the 5 year plan to top flight. This issue is not a deal breaker unless someone ITK says it is. Stop speculating on stuff with no logical basis.
So why was an offer finally made in June 2018?
Source? What does it matter when the bid was made? I suspect much before June, Charlton scarf time.
It was made following the sale of Konsa. My source is multiple ex-directors.
So Muir spent over a million on DD and only made a bid for the Addicks in June? Do us a favour Rick. And what about the £7m that you keep saying is an issue. Did it only come to light after the bid in JUNE? Utter bollocks.
The ‘bid’ in June was by RD to pay off the ex directors loans not a bid by the Aussies to buy the Club.
FFS. Both sides have stated tbat the price has been agreed. The £7m loans were known b4 they made their statements. Only repayable in the Prem. Costing £1-2m to repay earlier than the 5 year plan to top flight. This issue is not a deal breaker unless someone ITK says it is. Stop speculating on stuff with no logical basis.
So why was an offer finally made in June 2018?
Source? What does it matter when the bid was made? I suspect much before June, Charlton scarf time.
Wrong it was June and if you recall I posted they had till the 24th to make their decision
I refuse to believe Roland didn’t know about them I reckon he just thought the next owners should he sell would do the same as him and not do anything until the club reached the prem
This. I expect RD naively thought that he could simply pass the baton on (geddit ?) as the £7m is only fully repaid when in the Prem, at which time it is a drop in the ocean. If I was one of the ex-directors I would be taking my money now, even at 25%, because I seriously think we have no chance if getting into the Prem within the next 10-15 years, at which time their £500k would have been greatly eroded by inflation etc.
I'm done with the Aussies now anyway. As previous posters have said, their spiel of wanting to buy the club because of its great fan base & Muir/GM lording it at the play off games has proved to be just rhetoric. If they really want to get the fans back onside they are going completely the wrong way about it. Actions speak louder than words. In my eyes they are even worse than RD. At least with him we know he doesn't give a shit & we are only 2% of his empire.
FFS. Both sides have stated tbat the price has been agreed. The £7m loans were known b4 they made their statements. Only repayable in the Prem. Costing £1-2m to repay earlier than the 5 year plan to top flight. This issue is not a deal breaker unless someone ITK says it is. Stop speculating on stuff with no logical basis.
So why was an offer finally made in June 2018?
Source? What does it matter when the bid was made? I suspect much before June, Charlton scarf time.
Wrong it was June and if you recall I posted they had till the 24th to make their decision
I refuse to believe Roland didn’t know about them I reckon he just thought the next owners should he sell would do the same as him and not do anything until the club reached the prem
This. I expect RD naively thought that he could simply pass the baton on (geddit ?) as the £7m is only fully repaid when in the Prem, at which time it is a drop in the ocean. If I was one of the ex-directors I would be taking my money now, even at 25%, because I seriously think we have no chance if getting into the Prem within the next 10-15 years, at which time their £500k would have been greatly eroded by inflation etc.
I'm done with the Aussies now anyway. As previous posters have said, their spiel of wanting to buy the club because of its great fan base & Muir/GM lording it at the play off games has proved to be just rhetoric. If they really want to get the fans back onside they are going completely the wrong way about it. Actions speak louder than words. In my eyes they are even worse than RD. At least with him we know he doesn't give a shit & we are only 2% of his empire.
FFS. Both sides have stated tbat the price has been agreed. The £7m loans were known b4 they made their statements. Only repayable in the Prem. Costing £1-2m to repay earlier than the 5 year plan to top flight. This issue is not a deal breaker unless someone ITK says it is. Stop speculating on stuff with no logical basis.
So why was an offer finally made in June 2018?
Source? What does it matter when the bid was made? I suspect much before June, Charlton scarf time.
Wrong it was June and if you recall I posted they had till the 24th to make their decision
I refuse to believe Roland didn’t know about them I reckon he just thought the next owners should he sell would do the same as him and not do anything until the club reached the prem
This. I expect RD naively thought that he could simply pass the baton on (geddit ?) as the £7m is only fully repaid when in the Prem, at which time it is a drop in the ocean. If I was one of the ex-directors I would be taking my money now, even at 25%, because I seriously think we have no chance if getting into the Prem within the next 10-15 years, at which time their £500k would have been greatly eroded by inflation etc.
I'm done with the Aussies now anyway. As previous posters have said, their spiel of wanting to buy the club because of its great fan base & Muir/GM lording it at the play off games has proved to be just rhetoric. If they really want to get the fans back onside they are going completely the wrong way about it. Actions speak louder than words. In my eyes they are even worse than RD. At least with him we know he doesn't give a shit & we are only 2% of his empire.
Worse than RD? Behave. Just because they have the money, Muir alone does, doesn’t mean they should pay whatever RD wants. I don’t know the in’s and out’s of all this, only those directly involved do, others are being told half truths at best being lied to at worst, but according to you the Aussies should suck it up and pay what he wants. Why should they pay for his mistakes? He’s the idiot in all this. After all he bought the Club without doing proper DD, he didn’t even know about the Director loans until much later and yet the Aussies are worse than RD?
Comments
Two Aussie sources have said privately that the club’s statement at the FF that the loans are not an issue is incorrect - although they are not the only issue (EFL paperwork being another).
The ex-directors had no leverage on whether Murray was on Duchatelet’s board; if they have leverage now I would expect some of them to use it. There is a lot of personal animosity towards Murray out there.
Cried like a fucking crying thing watching that. My Dad's team, my team...thick and thin.... always will be. Bless you Dad. Xx
For those of us less knowledgable you’ll appreciate it’s difficult to form the same view without the same insight.
I don’t doubt, for example, that Murray believed a deal would be done in February. It was never in his interest to make that up.
In this case I’m not sure RD’s negotiator is fully able to speak to what the Aussies’ concerns may be. That doesn’t make him dishonest, just that what he perceives their position to be may be wrong. He doesn’t speak for them, after all.
If it ever goes into admin there money is safe and they could then do a deal to own the Club with the Administrator if that was their desire, that’s probably the only time they would do a deal.
As you rightly say, why should they take a discount for Rolands mistakes.
As to their opinion of Murray, they all resigned when he took control in 2010, that says it all.
Amazing how Muir's sale of 'The good guys' somewhat mimics Duchatelets sale of Charlton.
Initially vastly overpriced and on the market for a sustained period.
He also had to buy back co-owned stores linked to the business before he could sell.
You know. A bit like ex-directors loans!
We have prospective owners who will only purchase with a clean title and will not pay off ex directors.
We have 6 ex-directors who are unlikely to accept a payoff less than 100% because they hate Murray / don't trust duche or just want their money back.
And then we have Murray!
Meanwhile the club is being run into the ground.
It's a sign everybody...it's gonna happen!!!
And I'm pretty sure the bid was made before June.
I refuse to believe Roland didn’t know about them I reckon he just thought the next owners should he sell would do the same as him and not do anything until the club reached the prem
I don’t live locally any more but I’m back this weekend visiting family. We drove past The Valley earlier and it was such a sad sight. Or maybe, feeling. The ground still fills me with pride.
But....How has it been allowed for our club to be treated like this?
We’re being left to die and that cannot be acceptable for any club, let alone one with our history.
If the Aussies are playing a waiting game then maybe they should fk off and buy some other club. One that isn’t as big as us.
If they’re not and it’s RD running us into the ground, then he is pure evil.
But either way, it’s time the record was put straight. And not in some bullshit statement or half arsed meeting.
I'm done with the Aussies now anyway. As previous posters have said, their spiel of wanting to buy the club because of its great fan base & Muir/GM lording it at the play off games has proved to be just rhetoric. If they really want to get the fans back onside they are going completely the wrong way about it. Actions speak louder than words. In my eyes they are even worse than RD. At least with him we know he doesn't give a shit & we are only 2% of his empire.