A better title for the thread would be we hate Millwall because ....
Their history is littered with violence - it isn't a new thing, it's been going on for a hundred years. There is also the racial discrimination issue that has stained the club (but no club is perfect in that regard).
I accept totally that the powers that be at Millwall have made advances on the second issue and also pull their hair out at the first but the club has and always will attract a certain type of bigoted thug. Not all Millwall fans are bad (there I said it) and we have a few decent ones who post on here and who's views I respect, but the prospect of Millwall going pop wouldn't cause me to lose a minutes sleep or indeed encourage me to support their efforts to survive.
The problem is, irrespective of which club it is that suffers first, it sets a precedent and if allowed to come to pass will increase the chances other clubs suffering in the future. On top of the that, the whole deal with 'Renewal' stinks to high heaven.
I think one thing needs to be made clear though. This is not a Millwall plan. It is a plan from a developer who also owns Millwall. The benefits to Millwall directly line his pocket. A red herring indeed.
What plan are you refering to? And which developer now owns Millwall?
WHAT!!!
Do you mean a club that owns nothing and has no experience in even developing an old terrace house is now putting it's self forward to regenerate a huge inner city site?
This really has bugger all to do with your club, has it? Why would/should you end up with a revenue stream when you are not bringing anything to the table. You are just being bribed to stir it up. Both sides are as bad as each other and are driven by self intrest. Fair enough. Go for it. Just please don't come on here blubbing how terrible it all is.
P.S. The artical that Prague referred me to mentions the "Millwall plan". Are you now saying that the rival plan is not a Millwall plan? Or are you just being a bit of a wally?
Why can't we develop something on land we lease? Is that not allowed?
Err ..... Well, it actually depends on what the lease allows you to do, but generally no, you can't just go developing land you only lease BECAUSE YOU DONT OWN IT - ITS NOT YOURS TO DEVELOP!
Nasty little beggers or not, the club has some alright (at best) fans like @Big_Bad_World and @Sparrows Lane Lion. They deserve to keep their club at it's home.
Apologies, it seems since the initial post almost a month has passed and a lot more details have come out.
I think one thing needs to be made clear though. This is not a Millwall plan. It is a plan from a developer who also owns Millwall. The benefits to Millwall directly line his pocket. A red herring indeed.
What plan are you refering to? And which developer now owns Millwall?
WHAT!!!
Do you mean a club that owns nothing and has no experience in even developing an old terrace house is now putting it's self forward to regenerate a huge inner city site?
This really has bugger all to do with your club, has it? Why would/should you end up with a revenue stream when you are not bringing anything to the table. You are just being bribed to stir it up. Both sides are as bad as each other and are driven by self intrest. Fair enough. Go for it. Just please don't come on here blubbing how terrible it all is.
P.S. The artical that Prague referred me to mentions the "Millwall plan". Are you now saying that the rival plan is not a Millwall plan? Or are you just being a bit of a wally?
Many funders of projects have no experience in development. You appoint development managers, who appoint a design team and eventually you appoint a contractor to deliver the works. The funder puts up the dough, the experts deliver.
You don't think Millwall itself will get the CAD machine out and start drawing up plans do you? Perhaps Harris can do a bit of bricklaying during the summer.
You do also realise that Millwall only want to develop the plots of land they currently lease. Not the "huge" site you refer to. Renewal can still have all of that (or the developers/funders they are looking to flog it off to for a profit after their Lewisham friends grant full planning)
As for not having anything to do with our club...well, the Renewal plans would be taking away land we currently lease and remove the Lions Centre. That has something to do with us.
Why can't we develop something on land we lease? Is that not allowed? Have we not offered to share any profits with the council? What a great offer, a community club developing leased land at no cost to the taxpayer and then offering a return back to the taxpayer!! Surely that's something that should be welcomed and grabbed by Lewisham on behalf of the tax payers.
You seem terribly angry over it all. Not got shares in Renewal have you?
But "Many funders" have money. Your club does not.
I am not angry and I do not have shares or any interest in Renewal. Just think the support your club are trying to get from supporters of other clubs is based on a lies. Why be so dishonest?
I think one thing needs to be made clear though. This is not a Millwall plan. It is a plan from a developer who also owns Millwall. The benefits to Millwall directly line his pocket. A red herring indeed.
What plan are you refering to? And which developer now owns Millwall?
WHAT!!!
Do you mean a club that owns nothing and has no experience in even developing an old terrace house is now putting it's self forward to regenerate a huge inner city site?
This really has bugger all to do with your club, has it? Why would/should you end up with a revenue stream when you are not bringing anything to the table. You are just being bribed to stir it up. Both sides are as bad as each other and are driven by self intrest. Fair enough. Go for it. Just please don't come on here blubbing how terrible it all is.
P.S. The artical that Prague referred me to mentions the "Millwall plan". Are you now saying that the rival plan is not a Millwall plan? Or are you just being a bit of a wally?
Many funders of projects have no experience in development. You appoint development managers, who appoint a design team and eventually you appoint a contractor to deliver the works. The funder puts up the dough, the experts deliver.
You don't think Millwall itself will get the CAD machine out and start drawing up plans do you? Perhaps Harris can do a bit of bricklaying during the summer.
You do also realise that Millwall only want to develop the plots of land they currently lease. Not the "huge" site you refer to. Renewal can still have all of that (or the developers/funders they are looking to flog it off to for a profit after their Lewisham friends grant full planning)
As for not having anything to do with our club...well, the Renewal plans would be taking away land we currently lease and remove the Lions Centre. That has something to do with us.
Why can't we develop something on land we lease? Is that not allowed? Have we not offered to share any profits with the council? What a great offer, a community club developing leased land at no cost to the taxpayer and then offering a return back to the taxpayer!! Surely that's something that should be welcomed and grabbed by Lewisham on behalf of the tax payers.
You seem terribly angry over it all. Not got shares in Renewal have you?
Just think the support your club are trying to get from supporters of other clubs is based on a lies. Why be so dishonest?
I think one thing needs to be made clear though. This is not a Millwall plan. It is a plan from a developer who also owns Millwall. The benefits to Millwall directly line his pocket. A red herring indeed.
What plan are you refering to? And which developer now owns Millwall?
WHAT!!!
Do you mean a club that owns nothing and has no experience in even developing an old terrace house is now putting it's self forward to regenerate a huge inner city site?
This really has bugger all to do with your club, has it? Why would/should you end up with a revenue stream when you are not bringing anything to the table. You are just being bribed to stir it up. Both sides are as bad as each other and are driven by self intrest. Fair enough. Go for it. Just please don't come on here blubbing how terrible it all is.
P.S. The artical that Prague referred me to mentions the "Millwall plan". Are you now saying that the rival plan is not a Millwall plan? Or are you just being a bit of a wally?
Many funders of projects have no experience in development. You appoint development managers, who appoint a design team and eventually you appoint a contractor to deliver the works. The funder puts up the dough, the experts deliver.
You don't think Millwall itself will get the CAD machine out and start drawing up plans do you? Perhaps Harris can do a bit of bricklaying during the summer.
You do also realise that Millwall only want to develop the plots of land they currently lease. Not the "huge" site you refer to. Renewal can still have all of that (or the developers/funders they are looking to flog it off to for a profit after their Lewisham friends grant full planning)
As for not having anything to do with our club...well, the Renewal plans would be taking away land we currently lease and remove the Lions Centre. That has something to do with us.
Why can't we develop something on land we lease? Is that not allowed? Have we not offered to share any profits with the council? What a great offer, a community club developing leased land at no cost to the taxpayer and then offering a return back to the taxpayer!! Surely that's something that should be welcomed and grabbed by Lewisham on behalf of the tax payers.
You seem terribly angry over it all. Not got shares in Renewal have you?
Just think the support your club are trying to get from supporters of other clubs is based on a lies. Why be so dishonest?
So it's dishonest because you 'think' it is?
Top effort.
Do you own the land you want to develop? No
Have the club got the money to develop it? No
Is the club at risk? No
Did you make any of this clear when asking supporters to sign your petition? No
I think one thing needs to be made clear though. This is not a Millwall plan. It is a plan from a developer who also owns Millwall. The benefits to Millwall directly line his pocket. A red herring indeed.
What plan are you refering to? And which developer now owns Millwall?
WHAT!!!
Do you mean a club that owns nothing and has no experience in even developing an old terrace house is now putting it's self forward to regenerate a huge inner city site?
This really has bugger all to do with your club, has it? Why would/should you end up with a revenue stream when you are not bringing anything to the table. You are just being bribed to stir it up. Both sides are as bad as each other and are driven by self intrest. Fair enough. Go for it. Just please don't come on here blubbing how terrible it all is.
P.S. The artical that Prague referred me to mentions the "Millwall plan". Are you now saying that the rival plan is not a Millwall plan? Or are you just being a bit of a wally?
Many funders of projects have no experience in development. You appoint development managers, who appoint a design team and eventually you appoint a contractor to deliver the works. The funder puts up the dough, the experts deliver.
You don't think Millwall itself will get the CAD machine out and start drawing up plans do you? Perhaps Harris can do a bit of bricklaying during the summer.
You do also realise that Millwall only want to develop the plots of land they currently lease. Not the "huge" site you refer to. Renewal can still have all of that (or the developers/funders they are looking to flog it off to for a profit after their Lewisham friends grant full planning)
As for not having anything to do with our club...well, the Renewal plans would be taking away land we currently lease and remove the Lions Centre. That has something to do with us.
Why can't we develop something on land we lease? Is that not allowed? Have we not offered to share any profits with the council? What a great offer, a community club developing leased land at no cost to the taxpayer and then offering a return back to the taxpayer!! Surely that's something that should be welcomed and grabbed by Lewisham on behalf of the tax payers.
You seem terribly angry over it all. Not got shares in Renewal have you?
Just think the support your club are trying to get from supporters of other clubs is based on a lies. Why be so dishonest?
So it's dishonest because you 'think' it is?
Top effort.
Do you own the land you want to develop? No
Have the club got the money to develop it? No
Is the club at risk? No
Did you make any of this clear when asking supporters to sign your petition? No
I think one thing needs to be made clear though. This is not a Millwall plan. It is a plan from a developer who also owns Millwall. The benefits to Millwall directly line his pocket. A red herring indeed.
What plan are you refering to? And which developer now owns Millwall?
WHAT!!!
Do you mean a club that owns nothing and has no experience in even developing an old terrace house is now putting it's self forward to regenerate a huge inner city site?
This really has bugger all to do with your club, has it? Why would/should you end up with a revenue stream when you are not bringing anything to the table. You are just being bribed to stir it up. Both sides are as bad as each other and are driven by self intrest. Fair enough. Go for it. Just please don't come on here blubbing how terrible it all is.
P.S. The artical that Prague referred me to mentions the "Millwall plan". Are you now saying that the rival plan is not a Millwall plan? Or are you just being a bit of a wally?
Many funders of projects have no experience in development. You appoint development managers, who appoint a design team and eventually you appoint a contractor to deliver the works. The funder puts up the dough, the experts deliver.
You don't think Millwall itself will get the CAD machine out and start drawing up plans do you? Perhaps Harris can do a bit of bricklaying during the summer.
You do also realise that Millwall only want to develop the plots of land they currently lease. Not the "huge" site you refer to. Renewal can still have all of that (or the developers/funders they are looking to flog it off to for a profit after their Lewisham friends grant full planning)
As for not having anything to do with our club...well, the Renewal plans would be taking away land we currently lease and remove the Lions Centre. That has something to do with us.
Why can't we develop something on land we lease? Is that not allowed? Have we not offered to share any profits with the council? What a great offer, a community club developing leased land at no cost to the taxpayer and then offering a return back to the taxpayer!! Surely that's something that should be welcomed and grabbed by Lewisham on behalf of the tax payers.
You seem terribly angry over it all. Not got shares in Renewal have you?
Just think the support your club are trying to get from supporters of other clubs is based on a lies. Why be so dishonest?
So it's dishonest because you 'think' it is?
Top effort.
Do you own the land you want to develop? No
Have the club got the money to develop it? No
Is the club at risk? No
Did you make any of this clear when asking supporters to sign your petition? No
Is this open and honest? No
Careful mate he'll be offering you a cuddle
Someone's jealous. Not treading on your toes, am I?
I think one thing needs to be made clear though. This is not a Millwall plan. It is a plan from a developer who also owns Millwall. The benefits to Millwall directly line his pocket. A red herring indeed.
What plan are you refering to? And which developer now owns Millwall?
WHAT!!!
Do you mean a club that owns nothing and has no experience in even developing an old terrace house is now putting it's self forward to regenerate a huge inner city site?
This really has bugger all to do with your club, has it? Why would/should you end up with a revenue stream when you are not bringing anything to the table. You are just being bribed to stir it up. Both sides are as bad as each other and are driven by self intrest. Fair enough. Go for it. Just please don't come on here blubbing how terrible it all is.
P.S. The artical that Prague referred me to mentions the "Millwall plan". Are you now saying that the rival plan is not a Millwall plan? Or are you just being a bit of a wally?
Many funders of projects have no experience in development. You appoint development managers, who appoint a design team and eventually you appoint a contractor to deliver the works. The funder puts up the dough, the experts deliver.
You don't think Millwall itself will get the CAD machine out and start drawing up plans do you? Perhaps Harris can do a bit of bricklaying during the summer.
You do also realise that Millwall only want to develop the plots of land they currently lease. Not the "huge" site you refer to. Renewal can still have all of that (or the developers/funders they are looking to flog it off to for a profit after their Lewisham friends grant full planning)
As for not having anything to do with our club...well, the Renewal plans would be taking away land we currently lease and remove the Lions Centre. That has something to do with us.
Why can't we develop something on land we lease? Is that not allowed? Have we not offered to share any profits with the council? What a great offer, a community club developing leased land at no cost to the taxpayer and then offering a return back to the taxpayer!! Surely that's something that should be welcomed and grabbed by Lewisham on behalf of the tax payers.
You seem terribly angry over it all. Not got shares in Renewal have you?
Just think the support your club are trying to get from supporters of other clubs is based on a lies. Why be so dishonest?
So it's dishonest because you 'think' it is?
Top effort.
Do you own the land you want to develop? No
Have the club got the money to develop it? No
Is the club at risk? No
Did you make any of this clear when asking supporters to sign your petition? No
Is this open and honest? No
Careful mate he'll be offering you a cuddle
Someone's jealous. Not treading on your toes, am I?
If anyone seriously believes that anyone cares enough to change what's happening regardless of anything dodgy having gone on, I refer you to what a carve up the Olympic Stadium was.
I think one thing needs to be made clear though. This is not a Millwall plan. It is a plan from a developer who also owns Millwall. The benefits to Millwall directly line his pocket. A red herring indeed.
What plan are you refering to? And which developer now owns Millwall?
WHAT!!!
Do you mean a club that owns nothing and has no experience in even developing an old terrace house is now putting it's self forward to regenerate a huge inner city site?
This really has bugger all to do with your club, has it? Why would/should you end up with a revenue stream when you are not bringing anything to the table. You are just being bribed to stir it up. Both sides are as bad as each other and are driven by self intrest. Fair enough. Go for it. Just please don't come on here blubbing how terrible it all is.
P.S. The artical that Prague referred me to mentions the "Millwall plan". Are you now saying that the rival plan is not a Millwall plan? Or are you just being a bit of a wally?
Many funders of projects have no experience in development. You appoint development managers, who appoint a design team and eventually you appoint a contractor to deliver the works. The funder puts up the dough, the experts deliver.
You don't think Millwall itself will get the CAD machine out and start drawing up plans do you? Perhaps Harris can do a bit of bricklaying during the summer.
You do also realise that Millwall only want to develop the plots of land they currently lease. Not the "huge" site you refer to. Renewal can still have all of that (or the developers/funders they are looking to flog it off to for a profit after their Lewisham friends grant full planning)
As for not having anything to do with our club...well, the Renewal plans would be taking away land we currently lease and remove the Lions Centre. That has something to do with us.
Why can't we develop something on land we lease? Is that not allowed? Have we not offered to share any profits with the council? What a great offer, a community club developing leased land at no cost to the taxpayer and then offering a return back to the taxpayer!! Surely that's something that should be welcomed and grabbed by Lewisham on behalf of the tax payers.
You seem terribly angry over it all. Not got shares in Renewal have you?
Just think the support your club are trying to get from supporters of other clubs is based on a lies. Why be so dishonest?
So it's dishonest because you 'think' it is?
Top effort.
Do you own the land you want to develop? No
Have the club got the money to develop it? No
Is the club at risk? No
Did you make any of this clear when asking supporters to sign your petition? No
Is this open and honest? No
Careful mate he'll be offering you a cuddle
Someone's jealous. Not treading on your toes, am I?
He's mine leave him alone)
No cat fights please chaps, there is enough to go round!
They are lucky that Barney Ronay is a Spanner, but otherwise they have organised themselves too late, and haven't engaged the rest of the fan community.
It certainly stinks, and Barney is right, it could give other council types ideas if they get away with it. That's why we should support them. But their silence is pretty deafening.
They are lucky that Barney Ronay is a Spanner, but otherwise they have organised themselves too late, and haven't engaged the rest of the fan community.
It certainly stinks, and Barney is right, it could give other council types ideas if they get away with it. That's why we should support them. But their silence is pretty deafening.
Is Barney a spanner? I don't think he is. He's written positively about us recently too.
God this looks to be really iffy. But this is NOT about Millwall, it is about local government .
Needs to be all started again and in the open and therefore go to open tender. It should not be just a matter of this scheme or Millwalls. Not sure their plan or motives for buying the club are totally clean.
Will still smile if it goes through though. Such shallow support deserves it.
I think I made an earlier comment along the lines of Sullivan being dodgy and people said to watch out given how litigious some readers of this site appear to be nowadays. Anyway, THIS IS REALLY DODGY. Lewisham council are cutting all sorts of things but can pay a barrister to keep secret who they are buying land for. Oh, I forgot, we don't call it corruption in this country, do we, that only happens abroad. Sullivan reportedly joked when he stood down from the council that at least he wouldn't need to declare anything in future. And how. Small businesses and homes are also going to be bought at ultra-low prices just so Sullivan and Malik can make ridiculous profits. Tax-free profits. Next time you are about to complain about a council service not being available or being worse than it should be, look no further than this deal - and it's equivalent done by other councils - this isn't party political. And politicians wonder why no one trusts them?
Something stinks here. I'm not sure that Millwall have played their hand very well either. It seems that this was pretty much cut and dry before the club started to really get this out there. Had they done so perhaps some formal scrutiny might have taken place. I know we discussed this on here several months ago but in reality it's not hit the national press until far too late.
With regard to Millwalls Community Trust being evicted which seems to be the big play by the club, well that's hardly that tragic if they (MCT) and Lewisham Council come to an arrangement whereby the Trust are given other Borough accommodation at peppercorn rates. In fact if it's done well the Trust might just find that they are sited in a more advantageous location.
Comments
Apologies, it seems since the initial post almost a month has passed and a lot more details have come out.
I therefore no longer care how this pans out.
*Note to self, double check original post date*
I am not angry and I do not have shares or any interest in Renewal. Just think the support your club are trying to get from supporters of other clubs is based on a lies. Why be so dishonest?
Top effort.
Have the club got the money to develop it? No
Is the club at risk? No
Did you make any of this clear when asking supporters to sign your petition? No
Is this open and honest? No
It certainly stinks, and Barney is right, it could give other council types ideas if they get away with it. That's why we should support them. But their silence is pretty deafening.
It's an outrage.
#JeSuisSpanner
Needs to be all started again and in the open and therefore go to open tender. It should not be just a matter of this scheme or Millwalls. Not sure their plan or motives for buying the club are totally clean.
Will still smile if it goes through though. Such shallow support deserves it.
Small businesses and homes are also going to be bought at ultra-low prices just so Sullivan and Malik can make ridiculous profits. Tax-free profits.
Next time you are about to complain about a council service not being available or being worse than it should be, look no further than this deal - and it's equivalent done by other councils - this isn't party political. And politicians wonder why no one trusts them?
With regard to Millwalls Community Trust being evicted which seems to be the big play by the club, well that's hardly that tragic if they (MCT) and Lewisham Council come to an arrangement whereby the Trust are given other Borough accommodation at peppercorn rates. In fact if it's done well the Trust might just find that they are sited in a more advantageous location.
Adjourned until Jan 11th.