Sorry to bring up this old thread but I've been wondering if RD's reluctance to sell the club and lack of interest in the team's on pitch performances have anything to do with The Valley. Could it be possible that he sees more potential in the ground than the football club? That he thinks he'll make a big profit by developing The Valley and eventually selling it? And the training ground? For example, if I buy a house as an investment, I would wait for the price to go up and when I think it reaches my target I would sell it. If the housing market is crashing but I think it's only temporary, I'll probably do nothing but pay for the maintenance cost which still will be nothing when I eventually get it sold in a few years time. I always suspect that RD treats us more as real estate than a football club. Peter Varney made an offer to meet yet RD didn't even have the slightest interest, which was truly weird. To a businessman, everything has a price. Nothing is not for sale, especially not something that he has NO emotional ties with. So could it be possible that he's just waiting for the value of The Valley to go up while the yearly operating costs/losses are bearable? I know little about London real estate market or the financial values of the areas where The Valley and Sparrows Lane are located. What have the housing prices been like around these areas in the past couple of years? Going up? Slowly? Rapidly?
Does the above make any sense to you? Well, ultimately I think we're just one of the many investment projects of his so he doesn't care if we're happy or not - he's in Belgium not London or even England anyway...
No
Apart from anything else, any profit on the land would be wiped out by the ongoing losses the club has been making, which would become genuine losses to him and not just loans to the club
And planning restrictions would stop this happening anyway
Thanks. It's only in China that the real estate market has been heating up like crazy then.
London prices have been mad as well, I suspect they've reached a peak now, as a lot of the properties sold were luxury flats sold to foreign super rich as an investment/bolt hole, a classic bubble ready to burst
His end game is a club that is self sufficient through the acquisition, nurturing and selling of young talented footballers, cutting agents and their fees and breaking even, possibly even making money through it. To offset costs involved, development of ground is a possibility, but only to diversify the grounds use as opposed to flat out moving the club to another ground. He believes this can be achieved by utilising technology and online scouting, further cutting costs involved in physically traveling to games to scout players and the additional costs this involves. He also believes that good players will shine through no matter what coach they have, as long as the coach frequently plays young players then it's fine. Obviously the protests etc have made him rethink his strategy slightly, which is why most of our players are now British, as is our manager, and the delays of the training ground suggests he is close to pulling the plug, as investment in the academy, training ground and youth coaching is paramount to his visions success. Only time will tell which way it goes
Ask any West Ham fan now if they are happy about their move?
I'm sorry it's our home, it's our history and at the moment it's the only thing that keeps Charlton.. Charlton!
There is a lot of potential at the Valley. If we get to the prem and need to expand there is nothing wrong with two more corner blocks by Jimmy seed stand and re developing that end.
Anyone that wants/likes the idea of moving is off their head.
so if we did make it to the premiership and become a top team (bloody unlikely) the reason to just make a bit more money via sponsorship and raising our profile is not a good enough reason to leave the valley. also personally I would be pretty pissed off if we moved away from the valley just to bring in more support/tourists. I mean where the fuck were they when we were shit?!
As usual, all the parochial negative comments that i have (now) come to expect from Charlton fans who clearly have no wish to discover the future. Oh well, welcome to the past.
As usual, all the parochial negative comments that i have (now) come to expect from Charlton fans who clearly have no wish to discover the future. Oh well, welcome to the past.
I don't have a problem discovering the future but what I and many of my generation do have trouble with is letting go of the past. The memories of where we spent our childhood and youth every other Saturday into middle age and beyond with our parent(s) and close family / friends who are no longer with us. It's a sort of shrine to us.
Ask any West Ham fan now if they are happy about their move?
I'm sorry it's our home, it's our history and at the moment it's the only thing that keeps Charlton.. Charlton!
There is a lot of potential at the Valley. If we get to the prem and need to expand there is nothing wrong with two more corner blocks by Jimmy seed stand and re developing that end.
Anyone that wants/likes the idea of moving is off their head.
To be fair if you asked Man City or Leicester fans they might say something different. Indeed for most Leicester fans their greatest ever memory will now be at the King Power.
As it happens, we don't need to move as our existing capacity is decent, even if we get back into the PL, with scope to rebuild the JS if we need a few more.
As usual, all the parochial negative comments that i have (now) come to expect from Charlton fans who clearly have no wish to discover the future. Oh well, welcome to the past.
You can't really get more literally parochial than a lifelong attachment to your local football club though, can you? It's not a game of Monopoly. Fuck moving. The Valley defines us.
As usual, all the parochial negative comments that i have (now) come to expect from Charlton fans who clearly have no wish to discover the future. Oh well, welcome to the past.
Yep, that's right. If we don't agree with you we should be written off as backward looking dinosaurs.
You, on the other hand, are a total visionary who is way ahead of his time and will be lauded and worshipped in years to come. Ain't life a bitch.
Any move under the Duchatelet regime would be a disaster for the club. Staprix would end up owning any new stadium, Charlton would be tenants paying a rent, whilst Staprix and Duchatelet would make money from any retail / flat or shop income. One of Duchatelet's clubs in Belgium has the same arrangement and I remember reading supporters from that club saying that their club was like a captured bird in a cage.
I wouldn't trust any big moves from Duchatelet as it is pretty clear money made would not benefit the club but go into his pocket.
With a new owner, who demonstrate that they can be trusted, are ambitious and a solid plan with Charlton owning the ground and benefitting from any income, I would consider it. This would be as long as the move is part of an overall plan to make the club successful on the field then I would consider it and be open to the proposal.
Any sale of the ground by Duchatelet should be and would be fought tooth and nail. Duchatelet has demonstrated from the start that he can't be trusted. If Duchatelet or Meire told me it was raining, I would want to open the window to take a look first to check, they are that untrustworthy.
Fortunately, there's plenty of Charlton fans with good knowledge of the planning process to tie up any dodgy Duchatelet scheme / plan for a very long time. For the amount of aggro and gains, then Duchatelet would have to think long and hard before embarking on such a plan. The gains would be relatively small particularly for the amount of aggro and pain they would have to endure. That would include a lot of negative publicity and aggro for any architects foolish enough to get mixed up with any of Duchatelet's plans.
Duchatelet would be well advised to cut his losses and just sell the bleedin' club.
As usual, all the parochial negative comments that i have (now) come to expect from Charlton fans who clearly have no wish to discover the future. Oh well, welcome to the past.
But you are against Roland and all he stands for. I thought.
The valley today is a well decent championship ground which is too big for the current support.
It's a proper football ground with a lot of history.
It has capacity to expand.
Charlton may get a new overland station linking with transport other than the main line out of London Bridge, which it is already very close to.
I don't see any immediate reason to leave.
If we are in the championship challenging for premiership, the dynamic is slightly changed and I wouldn't completely rule out a move, can't see why we would think about it today. Make a success of the club first.
Hopefully then stay, but if it makes sense then, consider a move.
The valley today is a well decent championship ground which is too big for the current support.
It's a proper football ground with a lot of history.
It has capacity to expand.
Charlton may get a new overland station linking with transport other than the main line out of London Bridge, which it is already very close to.
I don't see any immediate reason to leave.
If we are in the championship challenging for premiership, the dynamic is slightly changed and I wouldn't completely rule out a move, can't see why we would think about it today. Make a success of the club first.
Hopefully then stay, but if it makes sense then, consider a move.
Agree with the above. But no move under Duchatelet, (challenging for the premiership would be extremely unlikely under Duchatelet. In terms of capacity, in any case, Meire's 20K project is a distant dream).
If the club where to move then were to. The Greenwich peninsular is now out the question, so you are looking at north east Kent as the only area with the space and lower land prices. Say Erith Dartford or Ebbs fleet as the nearest areas, but with poor transport links compared to Charlton. Is this what those who want to move looking forward to
I've always said that if someone proposed a move from the Valley I would look at the business case and weigh up the pro's and con's and if it was in the best interests of the club* I'd accept it.
*"the best interests of the club" aren't just immediate, short term, financial benefits. It would need to include factors like our identity and culture, for instance it would take a lot for me to accept that a move outside the Borough of Greenwich would be a good thing.
The Valley is part of our identity no way can we move; we are not an Arsenal or a Chelsea who are quite happy to price out their normal supporters. Stay put
Ask any West Ham fan now if they are happy about their move?
I'm sorry it's our home, it's our history and at the moment it's the only thing that keeps Charlton.. Charlton!
There is a lot of potential at the Valley. If we get to the prem and need to expand there is nothing wrong with two more corner blocks by Jimmy seed stand and re developing that end.
Anyone that wants/likes the idea of moving is off their head.
To be fair if you asked Man City or Leicester fans they might say something different. Indeed for most Leicester fans their greatest ever memory will now be at the King Power.
As it happens, we don't need to move as our existing capacity is decent, even if we get back into the PL, with scope to rebuild the JS if we need a few more.
Now IF our lot had any sense... (I know I know) they would realise that there will be a building boom locally (Brexit or no) and that there will be a lot of new punters about in the next decade.
I love the Valley like anyone else, and have been going down there for 40 years. But a move to Greenwich peninsula (Morden wharf) with a modern 30/35k stadium like Brighton's with bars and restaurants etc access from North Greenwich underground and by the river may be a positive thing.
Morden Wharf is a fair old schlep from North Greenwich, the equivalent of walking from The Valley to the Odeon at Greenwich. It's also a shocker to get to by public transport from Kent (or just about anywhere else that isn't on the Jubilee Line) which means more fans will drive there, so you'll need to waste valuable space on a massive car park. The current A102/A2 can't cope with the southbound rush hour as it is, so it'll be a bugger to get away from after a match. The only plans to link that side of the peninsula to the other side of the Thames are commercial ferry services to/from Peninsula Quays (just west of the O2), which cuts the potential for access from over there. Furthermore, you're not going to get bars and restaurants to set up there when you're in the shadow of the far-better connected O2 and the bars and restaurants around there.
It is an insane, stupid, unsustainable idea, like something out of the worst 80s/90s planning.
The Valley's not perfect, but it sits on a direct rail line to Kent (there are better services mooted once the London Bridge and Crossrail works are finished, which are what's buggering up weekend trains) and buses to North Greenwich and all over. There are local businesses around the place which depend on it - it's no coincidence the Bugle Horn is using the AFC Wimbledon match for its relaunch - and away fans like it too. And it's home.
Now IF our lot had any sense... (I know I know) they would realise that there will be a building boom locally (Brexit or no) and that there will be a lot of new punters about in the next decade.
I think the only ground move I'd be remotely keen on would be to a site north of Woolwich Road - closer to Siemen's Meadows, where proper transport links could be built in. It's also still in Charlton. But there's likely to be a huge amount of growth in the Charlton area in the coming decades - it's simpler to stay put, frankly.
The whole area from Anchor and Hope lane to the new 24 hour McDonalds is prime regeneration land, and could easily hold a new stadium, car parking, shuttle buses to and from various nearby stations and even the potential building of an extension to the DLR from WA along the riverside back to North Greenwich
Comments
His end game is a club that is self sufficient through the acquisition, nurturing and selling of young talented footballers, cutting agents and their fees and breaking even, possibly even making money through it. To offset costs involved, development of ground is a possibility, but only to diversify the grounds use as opposed to flat out moving the club to another ground. He believes this can be achieved by utilising technology and online scouting, further cutting costs involved in physically traveling to games to scout players and the additional costs this involves. He also believes that good players will shine through no matter what coach they have, as long as the coach frequently plays young players then it's fine. Obviously the protests etc have made him rethink his strategy slightly, which is why most of our players are now British, as is our manager, and the delays of the training ground suggests he is close to pulling the plug, as investment in the academy, training ground and youth coaching is paramount to his visions success. Only time will tell which way it goes
Welcome to the future.
I'm sorry it's our home, it's our history and at the moment it's the only thing that keeps Charlton.. Charlton!
There is a lot of potential at the Valley. If we get to the prem and need to expand there is nothing wrong with two more corner blocks by Jimmy seed stand and re developing that end.
Anyone that wants/likes the idea of moving is off their head.
Oh well, welcome to the past.
As it happens, we don't need to move as our existing capacity is decent, even if we get back into the PL, with scope to rebuild the JS if we need a few more.
It's not a game of Monopoly.
Fuck moving. The Valley defines us.
You, on the other hand, are a total visionary who is way ahead of his time and will be lauded and worshipped in years to come. Ain't life a bitch.
I wouldn't trust any big moves from Duchatelet as it is pretty clear money made would not benefit the club but go into his pocket.
With a new owner, who demonstrate that they can be trusted, are ambitious and a solid plan with Charlton owning the ground and benefitting from any income, I would consider it. This would be as long as the move is part of an overall plan to make the club successful on the field then I would consider it and be open to the proposal.
Any sale of the ground by Duchatelet should be and would be fought tooth and nail. Duchatelet has demonstrated from the start that he can't be trusted. If Duchatelet or Meire told me it was raining, I would want to open the window to take a look first to check, they are that untrustworthy.
Fortunately, there's plenty of Charlton fans with good knowledge of the planning process to tie up any dodgy Duchatelet scheme / plan for a very long time. For the amount of aggro and gains, then Duchatelet would have to think long and hard before embarking on such a plan. The gains would be relatively small particularly for the amount of aggro and pain they would have to endure. That would include a lot of negative publicity and aggro for any architects foolish enough to get mixed up with any of Duchatelet's plans.
Duchatelet would be well advised to cut his losses and just sell the bleedin' club.
Tell me why if you think different.
It's a proper football ground with a lot of history.
It has capacity to expand.
Charlton may get a new overland station linking with transport other than the main line out of London Bridge, which it is already very close to.
I don't see any immediate reason to leave.
If we are in the championship challenging for premiership, the dynamic is slightly changed and I wouldn't completely rule out a move, can't see why we would think about it today. Make a success of the club first.
Hopefully then stay, but if it makes sense then, consider a move.
*"the best interests of the club" aren't just immediate, short term, financial benefits. It would need to include factors like our identity and culture, for instance it would take a lot for me to accept that a move outside the Borough of Greenwich would be a good thing.
https://fromthemurkydepths.wordpress.com/2016/09/15/thousands-of-homes-coming-to-charlton-riverside-as-industry-waves-goodbye/
It is an insane, stupid, unsustainable idea, like something out of the worst 80s/90s planning.
The Valley's not perfect, but it sits on a direct rail line to Kent (there are better services mooted once the London Bridge and Crossrail works are finished, which are what's buggering up weekend trains) and buses to North Greenwich and all over. There are local businesses around the place which depend on it - it's no coincidence the Bugle Horn is using the AFC Wimbledon match for its relaunch - and away fans like it too. And it's home.
Meanwhile... I think the only ground move I'd be remotely keen on would be to a site north of Woolwich Road - closer to Siemen's Meadows, where proper transport links could be built in. It's also still in Charlton. But there's likely to be a huge amount of growth in the Charlton area in the coming decades - it's simpler to stay put, frankly.