Hey, @Belgiumbun I have a suggestion for you. Seeing as CARD is a group of anti-Roland protestors, I thought it would be a good idea, in order to balance things up a bit, to have a pro-Roland group too.
Action for Roland and his Senior Executives.
As the biggest ARSE I can think of, would you like to chair the first meeting?
As much as I think Belgiumbun's views are flawed, and in places factually incorrect, the post does raise some important issues. I think the direction of the protests are more nuanced that the black and white (to coin a phrase) argument which is currently presented. As we know, there are many views of what fans want. Ranging from just turning up on a Saturday to meet your mates and watch some football, through to having a club which is part of the community and being part of that. Those views affect how people see the protests and what a resolution to the fight might be.
In terms of the current position, I think it is important that CARD sticks to the simple message 'Roland out'. The argument will be won by keeping things simple and having a clear message which can be picked up by the press, echoed, reenforced and ultimately will wear RD down.
However, all fights end up with a political solution and, assuming there is still a club to be argued over, there will need to be, at some point, a discussion with, and a need for the winning of hearts and minds by, whoever owns the club in the future.
So there are two important questions that need to be thought about. (1) Assuming the RD will not sell in the medium term, what do we want from him which will satisfy the majority of fans? (2) If he does sell, what sort of ownership would the fans be happy with?
Obviously, it is RD's club to own and sell as he see's fit, but we should have a view about what we want going forward to stop a return to the current position.
From what I have seen, there is no evidence of RD planning to sell. In fact, quite the opposite. So what would we want from RD which would make things better enough to engage with the club in a positive way again? At the moment battle-lines are drawn, but that will have to change eventually otherwise the club will die. Interestingly, I saw this week some tentative steps from the club to ask questions about what would make things better. From CARD the answer has to remain "Roland out", but there will have to be a deeper discussion about this at some point. I realise this will be more complex, because there will be a lot of views about what an acceptable future would be.
The alternative is RD selling. So, what can we do to influence the sort of new owner we end up with? Possibly nothing, but we should have a view. Again, this is complex.
In my view, 'winning' isn't just about getting rid of RD but how we can end up with a club we can be proud of. The 'win' will be the change to the club we want, not necessarily who owns it. This might still include (probably will) RD being the owner, at least for a while yet. So what would be considered a victory?
As much as I think Belgiumbun's views are flawed, and in places factually incorrect, the post does raise some important issues. I think the direction of the protests are more nuanced that the black and white (to coin a phrase) argument which is currently presented. As we know, there are many views of what fans want. Ranging from just turning up on a Saturday to meet your mates and watch some football, through to having a club which is part of the community and being part of that. Those views affect how people see the protests and what a resolution to the fight might be.
In terms of the current position, I think it is important that CARD sticks to the simple message 'Roland out'. The argument will be won by keeping things simple and having a clear message which can be picked up by the press, echoed, reenforced and ultimately will wear RD down.
However, all fights end up with a political solution and, assuming there is still a club to be argued over, there will need to be, at some point, a discussion with, and a need for the winning of hearts and minds by, whoever owns the club in the future.
So there are two important questions that need to be thought about. (1) Assuming the RD will not sell in the medium term, what do we want from him which will satisfy the majority of fans? (2) If he does sell, what sort of ownership would the fans be happy with?
Obviously, it is RD's club to own and sell as he see's fit, but we should have a view about what we want going forward to stop a return to the current position.
From what I have seen, there is no evidence of RD planning to sell. In fact, quite the opposite. So what would we want from RD which would make things better enough to engage with the club in a positive way again? At the moment battle-lines are drawn, but that will have to change eventually otherwise the club will die. Interestingly, I saw this week some tentative steps from the club to ask questions about what would make things better. From CARD the answer has to remain "Roland out", but there will have to be a deeper discussion about this at some point. I realise this will be more complex, because there will be a lot of views about what an acceptable future would be.
The alternative is RD selling. So, what can we do to influence the sort of new owner we end up with? Possibly nothing, but we should have a view. Again, this is complex.
In my view, 'winning' isn't just about getting rid of RD but how we can end up with a club we can be proud of. The 'win' will be the change to the club we want, not necessarily who owns it. This might still include (probably will) RD being the owner, at least for a while yet. So what would be considered a victory?
Why will CAFC be better off with CARDS patronage? Who amongst CARD will represent them? If it has no leadership? Who is qualified enough to sit on the directors board? Or talk with Roland? Given the previous spats on here - and a lot of you don't get on. how will this be decided?
Support the team not the regime - really? How many posts on the Birmingham thread above are saying the protests are more fun than the game?
Why do CARD not promote on other cafc Internet forums? Even a cursory look at into the valley suggest CARDs methods are thought to be a bizarre. If you want unity then show me you have support from the MAJORITY of fans.
The TV walk out was not demonstrative of a majority support including those wearing b/w scarves.
Just because you can protest does not mean that you should. Has it occurred to anyone that the protest so far have achieved nothing? Except the dumping of a few pasties and paying a few coppers overtime.
Who approaches Katrien? Is it the messenger more than the message that failes to engage?
Yes I get you don't like Roland but you didn't like Slater either. Maybe some boats don't need rocking. In hindsight and learning from that mistake, isn't it better to stay with Roland than be sold to say another Mark Hulyer or someone with less money? And following on from that - is the new owner only accepted if he gets CARDs blessing? It does seem nobody is to good for CARD now Murray got rumbled.
We are going down because of the board? I accept that, how would CARD have prevented that.
All I'm looking for is answers to simple questions - the paranoia I can do without.
I'm really not sure you will understand the answers mate. Your position is so far from the shipping lanes you are seriously unlikely ever to get picked up.
I think @henrythecat raises some interesting points. I want the regime out because they're doing a terrible job. If they clearly changed and made a real fist of running the club - I could be won over.
It's interesting to see what is happening at Villa at the moment. Their problems have virtually mirrored ours: unqualified stooges in high-ranking positions, awful recruitment etc.
Villa have very publicly now decided to have a clearout and change of policy - scrapped executives and the manager, and pledged that the owner will take a back seat in football matters. Of course we're yet to see if that happens, but I do know that if Duchatelet had a similar full-scale 'reset' I would give it a chance.
I will try to respond to all the 'simple questions you raise.
CAFC would be better off with CARD's patronage, because without the approach of this current regime and with the aspirations of CARD in place, attendances would improve.
CARD is not a membership organization so does not need a representative.
There are a broad range of skills amongst the Charlton Athletic fanbase, very many people who would be qualified enough to be a director even if not rich enough.
When the power point November meeting was set up, there were enough co-ordinating skills within the collection of fans attending to figure out a way of talking to the representatives of the regime. Such a thing would be possible again in any meeting with Roland, and I reckon the good offices of the CARD protest fund could run to employing the services of an English/Flemish interpreter.
If you count the post match contributions after the Birmingham game (post match thread) you will find the majority of posts discuss the football not the protests.
I am pretty sure other internet forums are aware of CARD's presence including ITTV, I have seen mention on many forums of supporters of other clubs.
If for the validation of protest it needs to be demonstrated that there is a move from Katriens 2% to your new benchmark of 51%, then phenomenological evidence (no not scientific, or proved with a survey) suggests that your 51% benchmark is passed. May I say though, that if I was a contented fan, and even 20% of fans around me were protesting so much, I would be curious as to why. I would be unlikely to dismiss it as either insignificant, a small group rabble- roused by a handful of people, or without reasons that ought to be heeded.
Your analysis of the TV walk out numbers has the same phenomenological basis as my analysis of protestors in the paragraph above.
CARD is by definition a coalition, and members of that coalition in the form of CAST have tried approaching Roland and been rebuffed, you ask who will talk to Roland, but now ask who will approach Katrien. Both individuals have resisted any meaningful approaches throughout this regime's tenure.
It is not better to stay with Roland under all circumstances when there are interested parties out there (which Katrien herself told us about in the last fans forum meeting), especially when interested parties are given no access because they might be billboard salespeople.
There is an alternative out there, Katrien has intimated as much herself.
How might CARD have prevented relegation? As a named group CARD came about too late to influence anything football related. However many individual Charlton Supporters, now involved in CARD's activities have tried to point out to this regime that they're heading over the edge, one glaring example is the Phil Chapple situation commented on by many at the time.
There you go Belgiumbun. My effort at a polite response to you from a fan who supports a 'bizarre' CARD campaign.
I am just astounded (and my position has still not changed)that CARD have no back up plan. We will make things shit for you Roland, and you will sell and we will be bought by a really lovely kindly old gentleman that will give us all the presents we need. Life is not like that. Supposing you are wrong. Has anyone thought that if we are sold as a poundstretcher club we will get purchased by some diamond ring and fur coat chav?. The third division is full of clubs owned by the local fish and chippie. Roland is a billionaire and I prefer those pockets than off Mr Codfather. Be careful what you wish for. That all I have said. Those of you that think CARD is the Saviour of Cafc clearly do not follow other public sites. You will find that Card is not well supported at all on other forums - just look at the into the valley sites and not Charton 606 - all vastly critical of card. Now some of you are getting abusive so I will put a pin in this. But remember that it's a club and I have a right to question you and your motives - as you question Roland's.
I will try to respond to all the 'simple questions you raise.
CAFC would be better off with CARD's patronage, because without the approach of this current regime and with the aspirations of CARD in place, attendances would improve.
CARD is not a membership organization so does not need a representative.
There are a broad range of skills amongst the Charlton Athletic fanbase, very many people who would be qualified enough to be a director even if not rich enough.
When the power point November meeting was set up, there were enough co-ordinating skills within the collection of fans attending to figure out a way of talking to the representatives of the regime. Such a thing would be possible again in any meeting with Roland, and I reckon the good offices of the CARD protest fund could run to employing the services of an English/Flemish interpreter.
If you count the post match contributions after the Birmingham game (post match thread) you will find the majority of posts discuss the football not the protests.
I am pretty sure other internet forums are aware of CARD's presence including ITTV, I have seen mention on many forums of supporters of other clubs.
If for the validation of protest it needs to be demonstrated that there is a move from Katriens 2% to your new benchmark of 51%, then phenomenological evidence (no not scientific, or proved with a survey) suggests that your 51% benchmark is passed. May I say though, that if I was a contented fan, and even 20% of fans around me were protesting so much, I would be curious as to why. I would be unlikely to dismiss it as either insignificant, a small group rabble- roused by a handful of people, or without reasons that ought to be heeded.
Your analysis of the TV walk out numbers has the same phenomenological basis as my analysis of protestors in the paragraph above.
CARD is by definition a coalition, and members of that coalition in the form of CAST have tried approaching Roland and been rebuffed, you ask who will talk to Roland, but now ask who will approach Katrien. Both individuals have resisted any meaningful approaches throughout this regime's tenure.
It is not better to stay with Roland under all circumstances when there are interested parties out there (which Katrien herself told us about in the last fans forum meeting), especially when interested parties are given no access because they might be billboard salespeople.
There is an alternative out there, Katrien has intimated as much herself.
How might CARD have prevented relegation? As a named group CARD came about too late to influence anything football related. However many individual Charlton Supporters, now involved in CARD's activities have tried to point out to this regime that they're heading over the edge, one glaring example is the Phil Chapple situation commented on by many at the time.
There you go Belgiumbun. My effort at a polite response to you from a fan who supports a 'bizarre' CARD campaign.
I am just astounded (and my position has still not changed)that CARD have no back up plan. We will make things shit for you Roland, and you will sell and we will be bought by a really lovely kindly old gentleman that will give us all the presents we need. Life is not like that. Supposing you are wrong. Has anyone thought that if we are sold as a poundstretcher club we will get purchased by some diamond ring and fur coat chav?. The third division is full of clubs owned by the local fish and chippie. Roland is a billionaire and I prefer those pockets than off Mr Codfather. Be careful what you wish for. That all I have said. Those of you that think CARD is the Saviour of Cafc clearly do not follow other public sites. You will find that Card is not well supported at all on other forums - just look at the into the valley sites and not Charton 606 - all vastly critical of card. Now some of you are getting abusive so I will put a pin in this. But remember that it's a club and I have a right to question you and your motives - as you question Roland's.
If you bothered to respond to a single question posed to you then you may have some valid points.
But as you don't you are obviously a WUM and as such should be ignored.
I will try to respond to all the 'simple questions you raise.
CAFC would be better off with CARD's patronage, because without the approach of this current regime and with the aspirations of CARD in place, attendances would improve.
CARD is not a membership organization so does not need a representative.
There are a broad range of skills amongst the Charlton Athletic fanbase, very many people who would be qualified enough to be a director even if not rich enough.
When the power point November meeting was set up, there were enough co-ordinating skills within the collection of fans attending to figure out a way of talking to the representatives of the regime. Such a thing would be possible again in any meeting with Roland, and I reckon the good offices of the CARD protest fund could run to employing the services of an English/Flemish interpreter.
If you count the post match contributions after the Birmingham game (post match thread) you will find the majority of posts discuss the football not the protests.
I am pretty sure other internet forums are aware of CARD's presence including ITTV, I have seen mention on many forums of supporters of other clubs.
If for the validation of protest it needs to be demonstrated that there is a move from Katriens 2% to your new benchmark of 51%, then phenomenological evidence (no not scientific, or proved with a survey) suggests that your 51% benchmark is passed. May I say though, that if I was a contented fan, and even 20% of fans around me were protesting so much, I would be curious as to why. I would be unlikely to dismiss it as either insignificant, a small group rabble- roused by a handful of people, or without reasons that ought to be heeded.
Your analysis of the TV walk out numbers has the same phenomenological basis as my analysis of protestors in the paragraph above.
CARD is by definition a coalition, and members of that coalition in the form of CAST have tried approaching Roland and been rebuffed, you ask who will talk to Roland, but now ask who will approach Katrien. Both individuals have resisted any meaningful approaches throughout this regime's tenure.
It is not better to stay with Roland under all circumstances when there are interested parties out there (which Katrien herself told us about in the last fans forum meeting), especially when interested parties are given no access because they might be billboard salespeople.
There is an alternative out there, Katrien has intimated as much herself.
How might CARD have prevented relegation? As a named group CARD came about too late to influence anything football related. However many individual Charlton Supporters, now involved in CARD's activities have tried to point out to this regime that they're heading over the edge, one glaring example is the Phil Chapple situation commented on by many at the time.
There you go Belgiumbun. My effort at a polite response to you from a fan who supports a 'bizarre' CARD campaign.
I am just astounded (and my position has still not changed)that CARD have no back up plan. We will make things shit for you Roland, and you will sell and we will be bought by a really lovely kindly old gentleman that will give us all the presents we need. Life is not like that. Supposing you are wrong. Has anyone thought that if we are sold as a poundstretcher club we will get purchased by some diamond ring and fur coat chav?. The third division is full of clubs owned by the local fish and chippie. Roland is a billionaire and I prefer those pockets than off Mr Codfather. Be careful what you wish for. That all I have said. Those of you that think CARD is the Saviour of Cafc clearly do not follow other public sites. You will find that Card is not well supported at all on other forums - just look at the into the valley sites and not Charton 606 - all vastly critical of card. Now some of you are getting abusive so I will put a pin in this. But remember that it's a club and I have a right to question you and your motives - as you question Roland's.
Very strange post. (By the way Charlton were part started by a local fish and chippie!).
So to recap - some of you want to engage with Roland while other want to oust him to an as yet unknown 'buyer' mentioned only in meetings. Nothing has been seen of the new buyer (Varney seems to be interested but hates Murray) or agreed just a rumour. CARD have taken it upon themselves without election, notification or consultation to lead a compiagn against Roland. So if you are successful Out goes Roland where does that leave Murray? There are separate entities and have no legal relationship and can see independent of each other as I understand it? Does he go too? I assume so. He is not gonna sell at a loss and you now it.
So CAFC become more marketable if the fans protest?it that the rationale of CARD? , I bet the potential buyers are just queuing up to buy a club with a clause in its contract that x has to be paid up to Murray and hostile fans that will, unless they get their own way will turn on you like a rabid dog. This is what happened to Slater? He sods off And we got Roland. Does this not ring Alarm bells that due diligence may be overlooked here and we could be sold to some white slave trader ten times worse and skinter than Roland.
We great power not only comes great electric bills but great responsibility. Who gave CARD this responsibility ? Frying pan may become the fire. Again.
I will try to respond to all the 'simple questions you raise.
CAFC would be better off with CARD's patronage, because without the approach of this current regime and with the aspirations of CARD in place, attendances would improve.
CARD is not a membership organization so does not need a representative.
There are a broad range of skills amongst the Charlton Athletic fanbase, very many people who would be qualified enough to be a director even if not rich enough.
When the power point November meeting was set up, there were enough co-ordinating skills within the collection of fans attending to figure out a way of talking to the representatives of the regime. Such a thing would be possible again in any meeting with Roland, and I reckon the good offices of the CARD protest fund could run to employing the services of an English/Flemish interpreter.
If you count the post match contributions after the Birmingham game (post match thread) you will find the majority of posts discuss the football not the protests.
I am pretty sure other internet forums are aware of CARD's presence including ITTV, I have seen mention on many forums of supporters of other clubs.
If for the validation of protest it needs to be demonstrated that there is a move from Katriens 2% to your new benchmark of 51%, then phenomenological evidence (no not scientific, or proved with a survey) suggests that your 51% benchmark is passed. May I say though, that if I was a contented fan, and even 20% of fans around me were protesting so much, I would be curious as to why. I would be unlikely to dismiss it as either insignificant, a small group rabble- roused by a handful of people, or without reasons that ought to be heeded.
Your analysis of the TV walk out numbers has the same phenomenological basis as my analysis of protestors in the paragraph above.
CARD is by definition a coalition, and members of that coalition in the form of CAST have tried approaching Roland and been rebuffed, you ask who will talk to Roland, but now ask who will approach Katrien. Both individuals have resisted any meaningful approaches throughout this regime's tenure.
It is not better to stay with Roland under all circumstances when there are interested parties out there (which Katrien herself told us about in the last fans forum meeting), especially when interested parties are given no access because they might be billboard salespeople.
There is an alternative out there, Katrien has intimated as much herself.
How might CARD have prevented relegation? As a named group CARD came about too late to influence anything football related. However many individual Charlton Supporters, now involved in CARD's activities have tried to point out to this regime that they're heading over the edge, one glaring example is the Phil Chapple situation commented on by many at the time.
There you go Belgiumbun. My effort at a polite response to you from a fan who supports a 'bizarre' CARD campaign.
I am just astounded (and my position has still not changed)that CARD have no back up plan. We will make things shit for you Roland, and you will sell and we will be bought by a really lovely kindly old gentleman that will give us all the presents we need. Life is not like that. Supposing you are wrong. Has anyone thought that if we are sold as a poundstretcher club we will get purchased by some diamond ring and fur coat chav?. The third division is full of clubs owned by the local fish and chippie. Roland is a billionaire and I prefer those pockets than off Mr Codfather. Be careful what you wish for. That all I have said. Those of you that think CARD is the Saviour of Cafc clearly do not follow other public sites. You will find that Card is not well supported at all on other forums - just look at the into the valley sites and not Charton 606 - all vastly critical of card. Now some of you are getting abusive so I will put a pin in this. But remember that it's a club and I have a right to question you and your motives - as you question Roland's.
Duchatelet may be a billionaire, but his 'investment' (loans) at Charlton is parsimonious at best for the task required, and in any event, so badly spent it defies belief. Now toddle off back under your bridge, troll.
Yet another post from a previously inactive poster who love the Belgiums, joined after they arrived, named themselves after them and talks " buying us out".
Getting desperate now!
Belgians. Jesus, is it so hard? Place, people
As an England resident who speaks England well, I find it more annoying than CARD critics.
Why will CAFC be better off with CARDS patronage? Who amongst CARD will represent them? If it has no leadership? Who is qualified enough to sit on the directors board? Or talk with Roland? Given the previous spats on here - and a lot of you don't get on. how will this be decided?
Support the team not the regime - really? How many posts on the Birmingham thread above are saying the protests are more fun than the game?
Why do CARD not promote on other cafc Internet forums? Even a cursory look at into the valley suggest CARDs methods are thought to be a bizarre. If you want unity then show me you have support from the MAJORITY of fans.
The TV walk out was not demonstrative of a majority support including those wearing b/w scarves.
Just because you can protest does not mean that you should. Has it occurred to anyone that the protest so far have achieved nothing? Except the dumping of a few pasties and paying a few coppers overtime.
Who approaches Katrien? Is it the messenger more than the message that failes to engage?
Yes I get you don't like Roland but you didn't like Slater either. Maybe some boats don't need rocking. In hindsight and learning from that mistake, isn't it better to stay with Roland than be sold to say another Mark Hulyer or someone with less money? And following on from that - is the new owner only accepted if he gets CARDs blessing? It does seem nobody is to good for CARD now Murray got rumbled.
We are going down because of the board? I accept that, how would CARD have prevented that.
All I'm looking for is answers to simple questions - the paranoia I can do without.
Here are some questions for you then. What are the "qualifications" for sitting on the board (although I don't think this is a CARD aspiration anyway) or even speaking to a mad Belgian businessman. Did previous directors all meet them? How about six who were elected to sit on the board on behalf of the fans? Does Katrien Meire meet them? Is RD "qualified" to speak to Charlton fans? Evidently not, to judge from his ridiculous statement.
Who approaches Katrien? That would have been Steve Clarke, elected chair of CAST, but who gave up before Christmas because after many months of procrastination she then reneged on what she'd agreed. Or it would be Rikofold, on here, who sits on the VG committee with her and whose approach can be judged from the videos of FF meetings. In any event, it's been her who insists on dictating who represents fans in any public situation and has then surrounded herself with a wall of staff, Johnnie Jackson and CACT.
How many people use ITTV (or any other forum) but not Charlton Life, Twitter or Facebook (all used by CARD)? If such people exist, do they not read or follow the SLP, Shopper, VOTV or blogsites that report on CARD activities? What is the traffic level on these other forums compared to Charlton Life? In other words, why do they matter in terms of messaging? The hard to reach people are not those that exclusively read one Charlton forum, IMO, but those who don't read any, either because they don't use the internet much or aren't interested.
Ultimately Slater never owned or controlled the club, although the FL and fans were told that he did. More importantly he took no interest and played no part in its day to day running, whereas Roland wants to interfere in team selection and thinks that's sensible. Very different creatures. Meanwhile, Murray did pretty well for a long time before he decided to hire Dowie and fell out with just about every other director, then ran out of money, including theirs. So maybe better things are possible after all. Hulyer was a very long while ago. You forgot to account for 1984-2006, which actually was the club's most successful period in modern times.
I will try to respond to all the 'simple questions you raise.
CAFC would be better off with CARD's patronage, because without the approach of this current regime and with the aspirations of CARD in place, attendances would improve.
CARD is not a membership organization so does not need a representative.
There are a broad range of skills amongst the Charlton Athletic fanbase, very many people who would be qualified enough to be a director even if not rich enough.
When the power point November meeting was set up, there were enough co-ordinating skills within the collection of fans attending to figure out a way of talking to the representatives of the regime. Such a thing would be possible again in any meeting with Roland, and I reckon the good offices of the CARD protest fund could run to employing the services of an English/Flemish interpreter.
If you count the post match contributions after the Birmingham game (post match thread) you will find the majority of posts discuss the football not the protests.
I am pretty sure other internet forums are aware of CARD's presence including ITTV, I have seen mention on many forums of supporters of other clubs.
If for the validation of protest it needs to be demonstrated that there is a move from Katriens 2% to your new benchmark of 51%, then phenomenological evidence (no not scientific, or proved with a survey) suggests that your 51% benchmark is passed. May I say though, that if I was a contented fan, and even 20% of fans around me were protesting so much, I would be curious as to why. I would be unlikely to dismiss it as either insignificant, a small group rabble- roused by a handful of people, or without reasons that ought to be heeded.
Your analysis of the TV walk out numbers has the same phenomenological basis as my analysis of protestors in the paragraph above.
CARD is by definition a coalition, and members of that coalition in the form of CAST have tried approaching Roland and been rebuffed, you ask who will talk to Roland, but now ask who will approach Katrien. Both individuals have resisted any meaningful approaches throughout this regime's tenure.
It is not better to stay with Roland under all circumstances when there are interested parties out there (which Katrien herself told us about in the last fans forum meeting), especially when interested parties are given no access because they might be billboard salespeople.
There is an alternative out there, Katrien has intimated as much herself.
How might CARD have prevented relegation? As a named group CARD came about too late to influence anything football related. However many individual Charlton Supporters, now involved in CARD's activities have tried to point out to this regime that they're heading over the edge, one glaring example is the Phil Chapple situation commented on by many at the time.
There you go Belgiumbun. My effort at a polite response to you from a fan who supports a 'bizarre' CARD campaign.
I am just astounded (and my position has still not changed)that CARD have no back up plan. We will make things shit for you Roland, and you will sell and we will be bought by a really lovely kindly old gentleman that will give us all the presents we need. Life is not like that. Supposing you are wrong. Has anyone thought that if we are sold as a poundstretcher club we will get purchased by some diamond ring and fur coat chav?. The third division is full of clubs owned by the local fish and chippie. Roland is a billionaire and I prefer those pockets than off Mr Codfather. Be careful what you wish for. That all I have said. Those of you that think CARD is the Saviour of Cafc clearly do not follow other public sites. You will find that Card is not well supported at all on other forums - just look at the into the valley sites and not Charton 606 - all vastly critical of card. Now some of you are getting abusive so I will put a pin in this. But remember that it's a club and I have a right to question you and your motives - as you question Roland's.
You asked for answers to simple questions. Here are two for you. Why are you taking time to post on this forum. It is clear you are not a Charlton fan and are you Mrs RD ? I'm serious.
Ha ha ha! 'This is my view and I know I'm right because the people on Into The Valley think the same thing'. Madness and genius are so close together aren't they.
Why will CAFC be better off with CARDS patronage? Who amongst CARD will represent them? If it has no leadership? Who is qualified enough to sit on the directors board? Or talk with Roland? Given the previous spats on here - and a lot of you don't get on. how will this be decided?
Support the team not the regime - really? How many posts on the Birmingham thread above are saying the protests are more fun than the game?
Why do CARD not promote on other cafc Internet forums? Even a cursory look at into the valley suggest CARDs methods are thought to be a bizarre. If you want unity then show me you have support from the MAJORITY of fans.
The TV walk out was not demonstrative of a majority support including those wearing b/w scarves.
Just because you can protest does not mean that you should. Has it occurred to anyone that the protest so far have achieved nothing? Except the dumping of a few pasties and paying a few coppers overtime.
Who approaches Katrien? Is it the messenger more than the message that failes to engage?
Yes I get you don't like Roland but you didn't like Slater either. Maybe some boats don't need rocking. In hindsight and learning from that mistake, isn't it better to stay with Roland than be sold to say another Mark Hulyer or someone with less money? And following on from that - is the new owner only accepted if he gets CARDs blessing? It does seem nobody is to good for CARD now Murray got rumbled.
We are going down because of the board? I accept that, how would CARD have prevented that.
All I'm looking for is answers to simple questions - the paranoia I can do without.
Are you going to bother actually replying and discussing your views with other posters?
I see a lot of people taking time out to reply to you, most with far more patience than I possess, and despite their best attempts at conveying their own opinions - all I see is you repeating the same points which have previously been disputed. This means that either you're wasting your time and you're purposefully provoking some sort of reaction, or you're so far set in your ways that you're unable to debate. Whichever one it is, I think it would be more healthy for you if you took some time out and went somewhere else.
I think Narnia might be the type of destination you're looking for; you can believe whatever you want there without anyone challenging your view point.
I will try to respond to all the 'simple questions you raise.
CAFC would be better off with CARD's patronage, because without the approach of this current regime and with the aspirations of CARD in place, attendances would improve.
CARD is not a membership organization so does not need a representative.
There are a broad range of skills amongst the Charlton Athletic fanbase, very many people who would be qualified enough to be a director even if not rich enough.
When the power point November meeting was set up, there were enough co-ordinating skills within the collection of fans attending to figure out a way of talking to the representatives of the regime. Such a thing would be possible again in any meeting with Roland, and I reckon the good offices of the CARD protest fund could run to employing the services of an English/Flemish interpreter.
If you count the post match contributions after the Birmingham game (post match thread) you will find the majority of posts discuss the football not the protests.
I am pretty sure other internet forums are aware of CARD's presence including ITTV, I have seen mention on many forums of supporters of other clubs.
If for the validation of protest it needs to be demonstrated that there is a move from Katriens 2% to your new benchmark of 51%, then phenomenological evidence (no not scientific, or proved with a survey) suggests that your 51% benchmark is passed. May I say though, that if I was a contented fan, and even 20% of fans around me were protesting so much, I would be curious as to why. I would be unlikely to dismiss it as either insignificant, a small group rabble- roused by a handful of people, or without reasons that ought to be heeded.
Your analysis of the TV walk out numbers has the same phenomenological basis as my analysis of protestors in the paragraph above.
CARD is by definition a coalition, and members of that coalition in the form of CAST have tried approaching Roland and been rebuffed, you ask who will talk to Roland, but now ask who will approach Katrien. Both individuals have resisted any meaningful approaches throughout this regime's tenure.
It is not better to stay with Roland under all circumstances when there are interested parties out there (which Katrien herself told us about in the last fans forum meeting), especially when interested parties are given no access because they might be billboard salespeople.
There is an alternative out there, Katrien has intimated as much herself.
How might CARD have prevented relegation? As a named group CARD came about too late to influence anything football related. However many individual Charlton Supporters, now involved in CARD's activities have tried to point out to this regime that they're heading over the edge, one glaring example is the Phil Chapple situation commented on by many at the time.
There you go Belgiumbun. My effort at a polite response to you from a fan who supports a 'bizarre' CARD campaign.
I am just astounded (and my position has still not changed)that CARD have no back up plan. We will make things shit for you Roland, and you will sell and we will be bought by a really lovely kindly old gentleman that will give us all the presents we need. Life is not like that. Supposing you are wrong. Has anyone thought that if we are sold as a poundstretcher club we will get purchased by some diamond ring and fur coat chav?. The third division is full of clubs owned by the local fish and chippie. Roland is a billionaire and I prefer those pockets than off Mr Codfather. Be careful what you wish for. That all I have said. Those of you that think CARD is the Saviour of Cafc clearly do not follow other public sites. You will find that Card is not well supported at all on other forums - just look at the into the valley sites and not Charton 606 - all vastly critical of card. Now some of you are getting abusive so I will put a pin in this. But remember that it's a club and I have a right to question you and your motives - as you question Roland's.
Very strange post. (By the way Charlton were part started by a local fish and chippie!).
Nothing can be worse than Duchatalet.
BB has either had an irony-bypass, or "doesn't give a damn about the glorious history of the club".
Comments
The ticket woman with tan lines caused by the sun shining out of Meires arse??
Action for Roland and his Senior Executives.
As the biggest ARSE I can think of, would you like to chair the first meeting?
In terms of the current position, I think it is important that CARD sticks to the simple message 'Roland out'. The argument will be won by keeping things simple and having a clear message which can be picked up by the press, echoed, reenforced and ultimately will wear RD down.
However, all fights end up with a political solution and, assuming there is still a club to be argued over, there will need to be, at some point, a discussion with, and a need for the winning of hearts and minds by, whoever owns the club in the future.
So there are two important questions that need to be thought about. (1) Assuming the RD will not sell in the medium term, what do we want from him which will satisfy the majority of fans? (2) If he does sell, what sort of ownership would the fans be happy with?
Obviously, it is RD's club to own and sell as he see's fit, but we should have a view about what we want going forward to stop a return to the current position.
From what I have seen, there is no evidence of RD planning to sell. In fact, quite the opposite. So what would we want from RD which would make things better enough to engage with the club in a positive way again? At the moment battle-lines are drawn, but that will have to change eventually otherwise the club will die. Interestingly, I saw this week some tentative steps from the club to ask questions about what would make things better. From CARD the answer has to remain "Roland out", but there will have to be a deeper discussion about this at some point. I realise this will be more complex, because there will be a lot of views about what an acceptable future would be.
The alternative is RD selling. So, what can we do to influence the sort of new owner we end up with? Possibly nothing, but we should have a view. Again, this is complex.
In my view, 'winning' isn't just about getting rid of RD but how we can end up with a club we can be proud of. The 'win' will be the change to the club we want, not necessarily who owns it. This might still include (probably will) RD being the owner, at least for a while yet. So what would be considered a victory?
It's interesting to see what is happening at Villa at the moment. Their problems have virtually mirrored ours: unqualified stooges in high-ranking positions, awful recruitment etc.
Villa have very publicly now decided to have a clearout and change of policy - scrapped executives and the manager, and pledged that the owner will take a back seat in football matters. Of course we're yet to see if that happens, but I do know that if Duchatelet had a similar full-scale 'reset' I would give it a chance.
Those of you that think CARD is the Saviour of Cafc clearly do not follow other public sites. You will find that Card is not well supported at all on other forums - just look at the into the valley sites and not Charton 606 - all vastly critical of card.
Now some of you are getting abusive so I will put a pin in this. But remember that it's a club and I have a right to question you and your motives - as you question Roland's.
Give it up Tony
ps
That's me asking what your motive is BTW (It's my right)
But as you don't you are obviously a WUM and as such should be ignored.
Nothing can be worse than Duchatalet.
Jesus, is it so hard?
Place, people
As an England resident who speaks England well, I find it more annoying than CARD critics.
There's another who needs it FAR more ....
( But only if KM gives him/her time off to attend!)
'This is my view and I know I'm right because the people on Into The Valley think the same thing'.
Madness and genius are so close together aren't they.