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I haven't been doesn't mean I haven't followed the club every step of the wayBrendan_O_Connell said:Paulie, you said a couple of weeks ago that it was good to be back at The Valley because due to work commitments you were unable to attend so far this season.
If you had been able to come you would have seen the shambles our club has become and how badly managed it is from top to bottom.
Please may I ask a couple of things of you. Have a think and get your facts straight before calling people who care and are willing to fight to save our club idiots. If you don't want to partake in any actions, then that's fine, no argument from the majority on here, that's your call, it's a free country and you are entitled to your opinion, but don't slag off those that do.
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Yes I agree if Selhurst Park events had not happened with the fans taking action then the club wouldnt have existed yet what helped was the fact that we had English owners at the time so it would have been easier to protest against them
Instead we've got an Owner who clearly doesnt care about the club and what we do and doesnt care what we do against him, i.e. He's said nothing against any of the protests least not the one that happened in Belgium (Although hold my hands up and say it was well done).
At the same time we the fans want someone to buy the club who is going to care about us and take us in the direction that us the fans want the club to go in... Since the 90s that has also changed significantly as people who have these millions have made their money because they've made cut throat decisions and by ignoring the majority of customer complaints (i.e. the BBC get complaints every week but keep going... Poor example I know as they get tax payers money)
In addition we're going to want someone who has Charlton Athletic in their hearts before buying i.e. We can wish for a Sheikh from Qatar but they're going to care just as much as Roland the only difference is I wouldnt like to try protesting on their patch if issues go wrong... Of course you've got Peter Varney yet other providing some investment he's not shown a clear desire to actually buy the club has he?1 -
Not what?bobmunro said:
More sharp or sharper - but not more sharper. Hmmm maybe you're not!paulie8290 said:
Probably more sharper than youblackheathaddick said:paulie8290 said:
Don't pretend you know me and don't for one second question what I understand.blackheathaddick said:
With all due respect Paulie, just because you don't understand (and I get the sense you have no interest in really understanding) that doesn't mean that HI's reasons are incorrect.paulie8290 said:
media questioning- achieves nothingHenry Irving said:The "idiots" as you so nicely dismiss them will also have paid to go to the game.
Not heard what CARD or any other groups or individuals have planned as they don't release that news until 12.00 am on the day so I'll wait till then before condemning them or calling them "idiots"
As for what a disruption or abandonment might achieve
Pressure on KM
Questioning from the media and other fans and more awareness of the issues
A big fine to damage KMs budget
increased police and stewarding costs at this game and all future games
Embarrassment for KM in front of the media and the Boro directors
More press attention in Belgium
Encouragement to Charlton fans that we can act and don't have to "just accept" what Roland does
Any thing else I've missed.
increased police and stewards and a fine (sorry but people worried about ruining the club surely being in debt has more chance of losing the club)
embarrassment- means nothing to them
press attention in Belgium- who cares we are in England
sorry but none of these are reason why RD would change what he is doing or sell the club
Are you happy with how things are? What do you suggest to change things? Sitting behind your keyboard telling people who may or may not be doing something, fighting to change things at our club, and insulting them because you don't have the nous to grasp why they are, doesn't make you right.
yes its tough, we are not the only club to have had tough times because of an owner, but disrupting a game is senseless, it will achieve nothing
I don't pretend I know you. Although I've seen your postings on here over the last couple of years so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to establish you're not the sharpest tool in the box. The fact that you cannot grasp people's responses and state they haven't replied sufficiently just serves to prove that point. I was trying to be tactful, but I guess direct is probably more suitable.
Sharperer?7 -
Did someone mention Sheff Utd?kentred2 said:
Read the fucking threads from around the sheff u debacle from those that hated Roland from day 1 and didn't have to wait two years to smell the coffee like the naive "level headed" fans. It was all so obvious it was unbelievable and so so easy to see.daveydanger said:paulie8290 said:
Long term haha if we was mid table chasing top half none of this would be happening, fans are fickle and need to support the team, do you honestly think disrupting a game is going to help the team in anywayStu_of_Kunming said:Helps to make the club unmanagable.
If othing is done, there won't be a CAFC for you and the new piece to watch.
You've got to think longterm.
This argument keeps cropping up. The way I see it, there are roughly three groups of supporters:
1. A small number that hated RD from the outset because he was a bit too different, too Belgian, too 'modern football' - or whatever. These conservative types were desperate to be the droopy-faced victims of a despotic foreign tyrant. I assume this is who your comment is aimed at.
2. A small number of fans that still think everything is ok (like you), in spite of the fact that we are so visibily fucked.
3. The majority of level-headed fans that started off with an open mind, but have watched the club implode under a clueless, hopeless regime - and are now protesting as a result. The league position and this viewpoint go hand in hand, as it is the clearest indication of failure you could get.
NB. I love it when those from group 1 dish out the smug "I knew all along" type comments. Yeah, course you did, lol.3 -
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I thought I'd add the improvement before Pauline spotted it ;-)NornIrishAddick said:
Forgive me, as I believe that I too, am likely to find that you are "more sharper" than like what I am.paulie8290 said:
You got a crystal ball have you, and can see the club rotting in the ground.BR7_addick said:
Let's just not do anything then and rot this club into the ground, that way tickets will be a lot cheaper than £45 in the national league for you and your Mrs.paulie8290 said:Please tell me what disrupting the game on Sunday will do
Just remember Blackpool did it against Huddersfield and what happened, the blackpool fans got heavily criticized for it and everyone felt sorry for the Huddersfield fans.
did it change anything at Blackpool-no, did the owner leave afterwards-no.
so honestly what is it going to achieve, probably going to get loads of abuse for this but I honestly don't understand it.
me and my partner will be there after spending £45, we want to go to watch a game off football not have it abandoned because some idiots think it is at all going to bother the owner if one game gets abandoned
all these comments are ridiculous.
no one knows what the future holds and as I said if we was top half none of this would be happening.
when RD came in he was shit and didn't know what he was doing
last season we was the last team to lose a match and people on here starting saying maybe he does have a master plan, maybe it will work.
oh shit a dodgy season and he is the worst person on the earth again.
as I said forget the owners they come and go, support the team that will always be here, people saying the club is a risk. what a load of rubbish, what does he have to gain if the club is liquated or put into administration.
However, I wonder if you might be able to point out a little contradiction that is bothering me in your post, above. I have highlighted what I fear may be a slight contradiction.
Do you think you could possibly manage to explain to me, who cannot hope to understand the philosophical underpinnings of your argument, precisely how you can make both assertions in virtually the same breath.
I eagerly await enlightenment...0 -
You can get some mint hi-lights for £45 these days.5
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ForeverAddickted said:
Of course you've got Peter Varney yet other providing some investment he's not shown a clear desire to actually buy the club has he?
Yes, he has. He has said on record that the buyer wants to buy the club.
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I don't think there are any plans to abandon the game - just people getting ahead of themselves. The protest will be peaceful and hopefully something noticeable on TV.3
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Has he seen the latest financial results ? You might be able to hear the sound of him putting his cheque book away !Henry Irving said:ForeverAddickted said:Of course you've got Peter Varney yet other providing some investment he's not shown a clear desire to actually buy the club has he?
Yes, he has. He has said on record that the buyer wants to buy the club.0 - Sponsored links:
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Paulie, would you please use capitals at the start of a sentence. If one is not happy with the way the Club is run then one should demonstrate. If, in the past, we did not demonstrate and sat on our hands and didn't form the Valley Party we would still be sharing a ground, or worse.paulie8290 said:
You got a crystal ball have you, and can see the club rotting in the ground.BR7_addick said:
Let's just not do anything then and rot this club into the ground, that way tickets will be a lot cheaper than £45 in the national league for you and your Mrs.paulie8290 said:Please tell me what disrupting the game on Sunday will do
Just remember Blackpool did it against Huddersfield and what happened, the blackpool fans got heavily criticized for it and everyone felt sorry for the Huddersfield fans.
did it change anything at Blackpool-no, did the owner leave afterwards-no.
so honestly what is it going to achieve, probably going to get loads of abuse for this but I honestly don't understand it.
me and my partner will be there after spending £45, we want to go to watch a game off football not have it abandoned because some idiots think it is at all going to bother the owner if one game gets abandoned
all these comments are ridiculous.
no one knows what the future holds and as I said if we was top half none of this would be happening.
when RD came in he was shit and didn't know what he was doing
last season we was the last team to lose a match and people on here starting saying maybe he does have a master plan, maybe it will work.
oh shit a dodgy season and he is the worst person on the earth again.
as I said forget the owners they come and go, support the team that will always be here, people saying the club is a risk. what a load of rubbish, what does he have to gain if the club is liquated or put into administration.
As long as the law is not being broken I am happy to see pressure being put on lapdog, Judas and mad Professor.
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Wasn't too sure which is why I raised it as a question, know there have been a good few bits of communication from Peter Varney just couldnt remember the exact commentsHenry Irving said:ForeverAddickted said:Of course you've got Peter Varney yet other providing some investment he's not shown a clear desire to actually buy the club has he?
Yes, he has. He has said on record that the buyer wants to buy the club.0 -
Well this thread was a surprisingly enjoyable read.10
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This is what I am hoping for, the talk of getting a game abandoned is what I don't like.MuttleyCAFC said:I don't think there are any plans to abandon the game - just people getting ahead of themselves. The protest will be peaceful and hopefully something noticeable on TV.
if it doesn't happen and was never actually planned then I will apologise for my comments, I am a Charlton fan through and through and am just trying to say IMO it will achieve nothing3 -
Theres a shocking echo on this thread.....SuedeAdidas said:You can get some mint hi-lights for £45 these days.
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Very similar style to our dear friend Colin.0
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Eh?Greenie said:
Theres a shocking echo on this thread.....SuedeAdidas said:You can get some mint hi-lights for £45 these days.
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Apology accepted.paulie8290 said:
This is what I am hoping for, the talk of getting a game abandoned is what I don't like.MuttleyCAFC said:I don't think there are any plans to abandon the game - just people getting ahead of themselves. The protest will be peaceful and hopefully something noticeable on TV.
if it doesn't happen and was never actually planned then I will apologise for my comments, I am a Charlton fan through and through and am just trying to say IMO it will achieve nothing
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I thank you.bobmunro said:
I thought I'd add the improvement before Pauline spotted it ;-)NornIrishAddick said:
Forgive me, as I believe that I too, am likely to find that you are "more sharper" than like what I am.paulie8290 said:
You got a crystal ball have you, and can see the club rotting in the ground.BR7_addick said:
Let's just not do anything then and rot this club into the ground, that way tickets will be a lot cheaper than £45 in the national league for you and your Mrs.paulie8290 said:Please tell me what disrupting the game on Sunday will do
Just remember Blackpool did it against Huddersfield and what happened, the blackpool fans got heavily criticized for it and everyone felt sorry for the Huddersfield fans.
did it change anything at Blackpool-no, did the owner leave afterwards-no.
so honestly what is it going to achieve, probably going to get loads of abuse for this but I honestly don't understand it.
me and my partner will be there after spending £45, we want to go to watch a game off football not have it abandoned because some idiots think it is at all going to bother the owner if one game gets abandoned
all these comments are ridiculous.
no one knows what the future holds and as I said if we was top half none of this would be happening.
when RD came in he was shit and didn't know what he was doing
last season we was the last team to lose a match and people on here starting saying maybe he does have a master plan, maybe it will work.
oh shit a dodgy season and he is the worst person on the earth again.
as I said forget the owners they come and go, support the team that will always be here, people saying the club is a risk. what a load of rubbish, what does he have to gain if the club is liquated or put into administration.
However, I wonder if you might be able to point out a little contradiction that is bothering me in your post, above. I have highlighted what I fear may be a slight contradiction.
Do you think you could possibly manage to explain to me, who cannot hope to understand the philosophical underpinnings of your argument, precisely how you can make both assertions in virtually the same breath.
I eagerly await enlightenment...
I fear that my education has been insufficient to date...0 -
Been done two pages back, try and keep up......SuedeAdidas said:
Eh?Greenie said:
Theres a shocking echo on this thread.....SuedeAdidas said:You can get some mint hi-lights for £45 these days.
3 - Sponsored links:
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Yessir Mister G dog!
Please accept my plagiaristic Lol0 -
'Our lawyers are watching'SuedeAdidas said:Yessir Mister G dog!
Please accept my plagiaristic Lol0 -
I won't, thanks.kentred2 said:
Read the fucking threads from around the sheff u debacle from those that hated Roland from day 1 and didn't have to wait two years to smell the coffee like the naive "level headed" fans. It was all so obvious it was unbelievable and so so easy to see.daveydanger said:paulie8290 said:
Long term haha if we was mid table chasing top half none of this would be happening, fans are fickle and need to support the team, do you honestly think disrupting a game is going to help the team in anywayStu_of_Kunming said:Helps to make the club unmanagable.
If othing is done, there won't be a CAFC for you and the new piece to watch.
You've got to think longterm.
This argument keeps cropping up. The way I see it, there are roughly three groups of supporters:
1. A small number that hated RD from the outset because he was a bit too different, too Belgian, too 'modern football' - or whatever. These conservative types were desperate to be the droopy-faced victims of a despotic foreign tyrant. I assume this is who your comment is aimed at.
2. A small number of fans that still think everything is ok (like you), in spite of the fact that we are so visibily fucked.
3. The majority of level-headed fans that started off with an open mind, but have watched the club implode under a clueless, hopeless regime - and are now protesting as a result. The league position and this viewpoint go hand in hand, as it is the clearest indication of failure you could get.
NB. I love it when those from group 1 dish out the smug "I knew all along" type comments. Yeah, course you did, lol.
I'm sure there were Watford fans that were sceptical of the Pozzos. Most were probably apoplectic at the sacking of Sean Dyche. The Pozzos have succeeded with Watford. If they hadn't, those fans would be crowing about how they 'knew all along'
But my point is this - there were RD haters from day one, and RD lovers now. I don't believe either to be correct when presented with the facts available at the time. The current facts are this: over the last two years, RD has bungled his stewardship, ruined the team, and the club is relegated. I want him out.
Pretending to have psychicly predicted the outcome is silly. The proof is only in the pudding, and RD has burnt the meringue, set fire to the house and the dinner guests have scattered into the street, screaming.
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Save your £45 - you could buy Barry Island with that money rather than waste it.9
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Strikes me the OP could be distilled into the following sentence:
I've not been all season, so don't disrupt the only game I've bothered to buy tickets for.25 -
That's not fair, he went on Tuesday and even managed to swap seats.rikofold said:Strikes me the OP could be distilled into the following sentence:
I've not been all season, so don't disrupt the only game I've bothered to buy tickets for.5 -
"More sharper" - says it all.paulie8290 said:
Probably more sharper than youblackheathaddick said:paulie8290 said:
Don't pretend you know me and don't for one second question what I understand.blackheathaddick said:
With all due respect Paulie, just because you don't understand (and I get the sense you have no interest in really understanding) that doesn't mean that HI's reasons are incorrect.paulie8290 said:
media questioning- achieves nothingHenry Irving said:The "idiots" as you so nicely dismiss them will also have paid to go to the game.
Not heard what CARD or any other groups or individuals have planned as they don't release that news until 12.00 am on the day so I'll wait till then before condemning them or calling them "idiots"
As for what a disruption or abandonment might achieve
Pressure on KM
Questioning from the media and other fans and more awareness of the issues
A big fine to damage KMs budget
increased police and stewarding costs at this game and all future games
Embarrassment for KM in front of the media and the Boro directors
More press attention in Belgium
Encouragement to Charlton fans that we can act and don't have to "just accept" what Roland does
Any thing else I've missed.
increased police and stewards and a fine (sorry but people worried about ruining the club surely being in debt has more chance of losing the club)
embarrassment- means nothing to them
press attention in Belgium- who cares we are in England
sorry but none of these are reason why RD would change what he is doing or sell the club
Are you happy with how things are? What do you suggest to change things? Sitting behind your keyboard telling people who may or may not be doing something, fighting to change things at our club, and insulting them because you don't have the nous to grasp why they are, doesn't make you right.
yes its tough, we are not the only club to have had tough times because of an owner, but disrupting a game is senseless, it will achieve nothing
I don't pretend I know you. Although I've seen your postings on here over the last couple of years so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to establish you're not the sharpest tool in the box. The fact that you cannot grasp people's responses and state they haven't replied sufficiently just serves to prove that point. I was trying to be tactful, but I guess direct is probably more suitable.2 -
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I can but suggest the original poster suffers from myopia.
The club faced important fixtures this week. After the right result at Brentford we stalled on Tuesday.
Another important fixture does present itself this Sunday. So does a larger opportunity. The issue at hand is the removal of the Duchatelet regime from Charlton Athletic.
On the larger stages of life we get to vote for "the executive" who proffer themselves to serve on our behalf. Many vehemently opposed to the policies, of those (s)elected by others, just live with it. Some, even with an opportunity to argue for change in a few years, feel the need to challenges issues more urgently via protests, up to and, including civil disobedience.
As I quoted in my email to the University of Greenwich;
Democracy in the world of UK professional football does not exist. It is one which can be described as being governed by, at best, benign dictatorship. As such, executive power has long been open to abuse. South London has seen its fair share of such abuse with Noades at Palace, Hammam at Wimbledon and our departure from the Valley.
The only votes we get to make are with our money and our feet though the actions of those who secured our return to the Valley exhibited what can be achieved in bringing about change. It is little wonder this executive wishes to draw a veil over our history.
While not as transparent the challenges for the club today are just as pernicious as those of three decades ago.
Charlton Athletic Football Club as it is today has seen thousands vote with their feet and depart taking their money with them. There is every indication thousands more will follow. For them the club they knew will now be just a memory. This is the very real future we all face.
Our future as a competitive professional club is at stake. The club today is unrecognisable as a professional sporting organisation. Executive policies have completely failed to provide one compelling argument by word or deed for their program. The end result has been little short of sporting carnage.
Through the Trust, the Spell it Out Campaign reinforced by the Black & White theme, as supporters we have gone beyond what is reasonable in attempting to engage with the club. This executive will not engage. They talk at us, not to us and with each feeble missive it is clear they have little of value to say. The response has been derisory.
They are locked into the same dogma assumed from the day they took control. They neither understand nor respect the principles of competitive professional team sport or our unique heritage. Anecdotal evidence abounds across Standard Liege, STVV (for a decade), Carl Zeiss Jena and SE7. Condemnations ring out across the industry and across borders.
No need for a crystal ball the evidence across every facet of the business, if you bother to look, is staring you in the face.
As supporters we have a decision to make. For many doing nothing is no longer an option.
The potential for the escalation of the campaign undoubtedly presents itself. Civil disobedience has the potential to disrupt any organisation.
I have no knowledge of the actions planned but for example a "whistle initiative" presents any number of logistical & social challenges.
The cheapest items of protest are plastic and easily concealed. The club may have the appetite for the level of policing/ security staff to search supporters entering the ground but it would be a logistical and expensive nightmare. Is this the Charlton "match day" experience they seek?
Is whistling a legal offence or an act of violence? Such action will breach ground regulations. Expulsion & bans will result. Yet in a crowd of hundreds with black & white scarves across their mouths to keep out the cold, protestor prosecution will be difficult.
The threat of civil disobedience exists for every remaining game but Middlesboro presents an opportunity for a larger statement. Protestors will regret the inconvenience to innocent parties and can but ask for understanding. Such action will be divisive but the message could hardly be clearer.
We face the destruction of our club. Against which the disruption, suspension or abandonment of one, two or three games pales into insignificance.
Will you really be paying 3yrs from now as, based on the regimes' modus operandi, the next tranche of poorly supported, inadequately led low cost development/ reclamation projects passes through?
I suggest it is possible to provide fair warning, to all parties intending to travel, matches will be subject to possible civil disobedience with the possibility the game may not be completed. In essence people attend at their own risk. Those wishing to avoid any inconvenience may, if possible, wish to reconsider attending.
Most football fans will understand. Middlesboro fans will recall their players were once locked out of their training ground. Our challenge is different but the future for us is no less serious.
People have identified the costs associated with such a protest. It is doable but will present a challenge.
The required impact will need to be agreed be it the;
- intermittent disruption of the game over 45/ 90 minutes
- suspension of the game for a given period
- abandonment of the game
Will there be common agreement and the necessary discipline?
Essentially non violent such action will alienate many even some sympathetic to the cause. Is it a risk protestors/ the campaign now need to consider? Where will the protest go from here?
We see across multiple message boards many are happy to support the cause on the basis they are not materially inconvenienced. Such is a part of life. To them all I ask is "if not this then what? What is the alternative? If not now when?"
I am not sure "if only", "don't know" or "what's the point" can be the answers any longer. Most clubs will today already have next seasons plans/ contingencies in the pipeline. Are supporters prepared to tolerate this executive stumbling on one day longer than necessary to initiate another 12 month cycle of disaster?
Is the inconvenience of "civil disobedience at one, two or three games", when considered against the history of our club and in the face of thousands of supporters leaving, too high a price for everyone with the future of the club at heart?
It could be a defining moment for those, including me, who can largely sit "tut tutting meaningfully" on the side lines. Even if not able to take part in such a protest will you/we give our support to those who do?
How seriously do you want change? What steps are you prepared to take in support of the campaign for change?
Civil disobedience will be a catalyst. Is this the time to promote a step change in the campaign?
Forget for a moment those working hard to promote change across a range of initiatives and those donating their money to the cause this ultimately is going to about where everyone stands on the campaign for change. The time for "ifs", "buts" and "maybes' is quickly passing. There may be pain. There will be risk. There are no guarantees.
It is an eminently personal decision.
I have made mine. Out of respect for this forum and its members I will keep my counsel.
As someone posted and I make no apology for repeating
Be assured your club needs you and needs you to see the bigger picture.
Grapevine49
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Well I have to say, I'm convinced. It doesn't matter that we've been served up two years of awful football. It doesn't matter that we are deep in the relegation zone and just a few more stumbling performances away from League One. It doesn't matter that despite lack of entertainment and lack of results the club is losing money hand over fist. It doesn't matter that it isn't a benign debt, but that somehow the cost of the owner's complete and utter failure to manage the club effectively ends up as debt payable to him. It doesn't matter that the club is then having to pay interest at a rate of 3% on the owner's failure. It doesn't matter that the club's management has lied to us and shown nothing but contempt for the fans. It doesn't matter that our club is a laughing stock. It doesn't matter that that better brains than mine have been following what's going on very carefully and have a far more sophisticated view of the problems at the club than I personally have. It doesn't matter that we've been discussing and debating for months on end to arrive collectively at the position we are at. It doesn't matter that many tried and failed to enter into a dialog with the club before deciding that a more confrontational approach was, regrettably, the only viable course of action. It doesn't matter that, between them, Charlton fan's have paid thousands of pounds in cash and spent thousands of hours demonstrating to try and get a positive result. It doesn't matter that people went to Belgium, it doesn't matter that people carried banners, wore masks, signed petitions, stood out in the cold giving out leaflets. It doesn't matter that club sponsors are considering cutting their ties or that at least one company have decided that they'd rather side with the fans than the regime. It doesn't matter that people are actively boycotting matches rather than see the team they love. It doesn't even matter that what is at stake is the very future of our club. The very future of our club - it doesn't matter! The big thing in this that we all need to remember is that Pauli has spent out forty five quid. That forty five quid that he's worked so hard to earn. Forty five quid that could have been spent on a meal out or a new pair of jeans or on a charity goat to help save a starving family. That forty five quid has been earmarked so that Pauli can go and see the stars of tomorrow's Premiership playing at The Valley this weekend. Let nobody demonstrate. All bets are off, all discussions are ended. I have seen the light. There must be no disruption. Pauli has spent forty five quid. That is all you need to know, game over.23
