I think there's a genuine chance that someone will assassinate him, and I also believe that, had Hillary won someone would have gone for her as well.
In a campaign fought so aggressively, a lot of people hate Donald Trump and a lot of people hate Hillary Clinton. I haven't seen people have hatred for a politician like they do about these two.
And in a country with such free access to guns...
I really hope nothing like that happens obviously, but I think there will at least be a couple of attempts. In fact I think a kid from the UK was arrested for conspiracy to kill Trump a while back and he's being held in a US jail.
I think there's a genuine chance that someone will assassinate him, and I also believe that, had Hillary won someone would have gone for her as well.
In a campaign fought so aggressively, a lot of people hate Donald Trump and a lot of people hate Hillary Clinton. I haven't seen people have hatred for a politician like they do about these two.
And in a country with such free access to guns...
I really hope nothing like that happens obviously, but I think there will at least be a couple of attempts. In fact I think a kid from the UK was arrested for conspiracy to kill Trump a while back and he's being held in a US jail.
It just proves the courage of the man. He's putting his life on the line for the country that he loves. He really didn't need this, he had a life of luxury that we could only dream about, and a wonderful wife and family.
If attacks of hate crimes are only going to be condemned by one side then I don't want to be a part of this conversation anymore.
Is it not conceivable that some hard left activists may have seen an opportunity after the vote to spray nasty stuff on walls to further their viewpoint/cause?
It's just as plausible as suggesting that those who have always held far right views just suddenly felt empowered to go out and act on their idiocy.
Then this morning seeing images of these so called peace loving people, burning American flags - nice but has dick all to do with trump, so far since the vote the only group causing problems are the anti trump brigade - proving the same as remain voters, let's have a tantrum because we didn't get our way, and they would be far better off if they had a reason not to want him instead of chanting "not my president" and "fuck Donald trump" I think the world has just taken 2 steps back from ww3, for that I'm greatful
Have you not seen the pictures of the swastikas appearing overnight in this thread or the reports of Muslim women having thier headscarves pulled off in thr street and other minorities being abused?
I posted a little higher up the thread about confirmation bias...
Is he going to be tweeting his disdain when he doesn't get his own way whilst in the White House? Twitter is going to be a useful weapon for distracting the masses.
I think there's a genuine chance that someone will assassinate him, and I also believe that, had Hillary won someone would have gone for her as well.
In a campaign fought so aggressively, a lot of people hate Donald Trump and a lot of people hate Hillary Clinton. I haven't seen people have hatred for a politician like they do about these two.
And in a country with such free access to guns...
I really hope nothing like that happens obviously, but I think there will at least be a couple of attempts. In fact I think a kid from the UK was arrested for conspiracy to kill Trump a while back and he's being held in a US jail.
It just proves the courage of the man. He's putting his life on the line for the country that he loves. He really didn't need this, he had a life of luxury that we could only dream about, and a wonderful wife and family.
Oh FFS. I wasn't completely convinced before but now you're definitely just a wum. A shame because it was quite convincing for a while.
I haven’t commented much on this. It is all so depressing at the moment.
We have a problem. The whole world does. People with no voice that suited the establishment fine have found it. There is a reason and some of the blame is irrational but it is a symptom of anger that needs to be expressed by those with previously no voice. An example? Political correctness, don’t we hate it? Well, sometimes it can push over the edge of what it should be, but it is a force for good on the whole. We don’t persecute homosexuals quite as much as we did for example. We don't have a society that accepts the abuse of kids. When you look back 30 years and beyond, were the attitudes a good thing? We try to think in a fair minded way and understand the views of others as best we can. That is part of a discipline that has come from political correctness. But some people go rabid at the very mention of it. Or go apesh*t when a non-racist refers to the French as frogs, because they don't understand what racism is!
I’m not racist but why can’t I call a black person the ‘n’ word when I hear black people calling each other it? Sorry, if you want to call a black person the 'n' word you are a racist! Why do you want to call them that and why are you so bloody passionate about it? You open the can of worms and people redefine racism without any real understanding of the subject. Then it opens up the floodgates for angry people who don't undestand how to channel their anger, people who sucked it in before, think they have permission to abuse foreigners or worse. They were always there but society had standards it required from them. It doesn’t have them quite so much any more. The lines are faded.
The source of the problem? Globalisation. A good way for a small number of people and uncaring ruthless multi-national companies to make shedloads of money and many others to be used and exploited to make them even more. With all the technological advances, children should not be getting poorer than their parents. People should be able to work for a decent living. The establishment that allowed this to happen are facing a backlash. The public want to give them a bloody nose. Hilary Clinton wasn’t evil personified, but she was part of the political elite. part of the problem.
If you look at Trump. A horrible, nasty man. George W Bush didn’t vote for him! He hijacked the Republican party. He was a maverick with an anti-establishment message, but he called out to people who are suffering from globalisation and told them he would protect them. Not that he has shown any inclination to protect them before, looking to avoid paying his dues for instance. He is unlikely to be their saviour. But, the establishment just shrugged their shoulders and said/say 'what can we do?' We can't offer you any hope. Vote for us. Trump is a horrible man, but he spoke to people that nobody bothered about. Many people who voted for him don't trust him, but he was offering a message of hope. They might not have voted before, but they have been pushed to a point where they vote now.
If you look at history, this can be dangerous. When people reach that point of anger, they can be manipulated. We saw the disgusting site of UKIP using almost an exact copy of a Nazi poster during the Brexit referendum. Not enough people got animated about it! But if you go to your town centre and nobody speaks English and everybody seems to be an eastern European, you get angry. I get frustrated - I have to be honest. You are probably right to get angry, without blaming people who want better for themselves and their families. But the solutions/alternatives offered are not always the best ones. The establishment don’t offer reasonable solutions so those that do, however extreme, will become attractive.
With the demise of the Labour party, which is more bothered about gazing at its navel than looking for answers, the Conservative’s may be complacent. They are foolish to be if they are. This revolution – because that is what it is - is just as dangerous to them. Unless there is an economic rebalancing to correct a world that sh*ts on so many people, they will succumb to a non-establishment figure offering change at some point. The problem is of course, these people can be dangerous. The establishment have let us down by not listening or caring about the little man in this corporate multi-national world which they love to suck up to. Money flows into increasingly fewer pockets and that’s ok! Nothing we can do about it anyway!
The rest of Europe will go the same way as us. The beaurocrats don’t get it, but it is only having a decent life that gets better which keeps the population content. If you take that away from them – retiring at an increasingly old age, no pay rises, no security, austerity, fear for the future of your children….. they look for things to blame. And opportunists offer answers. If the establishment are not willing to chart a new course and address this – and all the signs suggest they are not, we are in for a very dangerous period. it may be too late now anyway. We have to hope it ends well. We really do!
Has anyone considered that Trump might do a good job?
I've considered the message that it sends to my daughter and to young people everywhere that a known misogynist, racist, bragger of sexual assaults, bully, liar and man of extremely childish and questionable temperament has been elected into the most powerful role in the western world.
I can't be bothered to get into neo-liberalism, alt-right, political name calling bullshit but surely elevating such a man, empowering and emboldening like minded people and frightening and isolating minority groups is fundamentally wrong, whatever your political leaning? And for that matter, whether or not Trump himself even believes it - the message of some people being worth more than others and bullying and raging your way to the top, and that being endorsed by the US nation, remains the same regardless.
It can't and won't end well because it is an approach that relied on embittering and enraging a section of a population against several others. It leaves a nation divided for one man's folly.
America is different in that it is so big and powerful. Ford for example don't give a sh*t about people - just accumulating money. They would have slaves working for them if they could get away with it. Same with Nike and a long list of evil corporations. Trump is saying to them, if you want to close a plant down in America and pay Mexicans peanuts to replace Americans, I'll hammer you. America is probably big and powerful enough to be protectionist. If he goes through with this, it could work for some Americans. That is an idea from the left, not the right! What did Clinton say about this? She probably went to a party/reception or two paid for by Ford. I'm not defending Trump here btw.
Has anyone considered that Trump might do a good job?
I've considered the message that it sends to my daughter and to young people everywhere that a known misogynist, racist, bragger of sexual assaults, bully, liar and man of extremely childish and questionable temperament has been elected into the most powerful role in the western world.
I can't be bothered to get into neo-liberalism, alt-right, political name calling bullshit but surely elevating such a man, empowering and emboldening like minded people and frightening and isolating minority groups is fundamentally wrong, whatever your political leaning? And for that matter, whether or not Trump himself even believes it - the message of some people being worth more than others and bullying and raging your way to the top, and that being endorsed by the US nation, remains the same regardless.
It can't and won't end well because it is an approach that relied on embittering and enraging a section of a population against several others. It leaves a nation divided for one man's folly.
This is much like my view on it. Taking out the left versus right, small versus large government, interventionist versus protectionist, etc, etc, arguments that have surrounded every election here or in the US, he is the epitome of every value that we try not to instil in our children.
American parents are soon going to find it an interesting and difficult experience when they're explaining to their sons why it's not acceptable to refer to girls as dogs who are there to be abused when their President is happy to do so.
@queensland_addick I agree that you shouldn't have been referred to as mein fuhrer, no one should be sinking to the level of name calling. However, I do feel that some of your "mwahahaha" post are deliberately antagonistic.
Additionally that video of the black youths attacking a man because "you voted trump" is disgusting and I hope that they face the deserved justice for that crime. That makes them no better than the people committing hate crimes on the other side.
And there have been hate crimes on the other side. I saw someone say that it could be lefty activists doing it to stoke further hate, and while I accept that there is a small chance that this is true I think it is much more likely that it was a genuine hate crime. I lived in America and I know that there are deep divisions that were running under the surface before. These have been magnified during this election campaign. There are groups, however small and they are not in the majority, who will feel that their views are empowered by this election.
I think it was Hassan Minhaj on the daily show who said it best on the daily show yesterday (left/liberal leaning for sure) -
"You personally may not be a racist, sexist, xenophobe, but that comes with the package. So if you take that deal what you're telling me is 'hey, I don't hate you, I just don't care about you'."
I have no problem with people putting themselves first, we all do. But to laugh in their faces or tell them just to get over it is wrong. They have genuine concerns that need to be addressed, just because they aren't your concerns does not devalue them and we all have to listen to each other if we want to make progress.
Maybe the 'liberal' establisment needs the kick in the proverbials it is getting. And this is only the start. They have elections in Italy coming up and they are more p*ssed off than we are! Hopefully we can come out the other end better. We have to hope so because that is not certain at all. We all need change, just we need the right people to come forwards an offer it. That is why I want the Labour party to collapse despite voting Labour all my life. It is no longer relevant. Nor is the Conservative party. It will be its time next because they don't get it either! But the void needs to be filled with the right alternative.
Good post JD. I think part of the problem contributing to the angry left is the goading by those on the right. For a left wing person they've had very little to get excited about for many years and especially recently. For right wingers to then turn around each time and act like they've won a football match must be pretty hard to take. Saying things like "we won" well that's not true, these decisions affect every one in society but to then throw these things in the faces of people who have the opposite opinion is quite crass. This isn't to defend those marching against elections or votes or those spouting hatred because they didn't get their way. I can at least understand the frustration if I cannot condone the reaction.
I haven’t commented much on this. It is all so depressing at the moment.
We have a problem. The whole world does. People with no voice that suited the establishment fine have found it. There is a reason and some of the blame is irrational but it is a symptom of anger that needs to be expressed by those with previously no voice. An example? Political correctness, don’t we hate it? Well, sometimes it can push over the edge of what it should be, but it is a force for good on the whole. We don’t persecute homosexuals quite as much as we did for example. We don't have a society that accepts the abuse of kids. When you look back 30 years and beyond, were the attitudes a good thing? We try to think in a fair minded way and understand the views of others as best we can. That is part of a discipline that has come from political correctness. But some people go rabid at the very mention of it. Or go apesh*t when a non-racist refers to the French as frogs, because they don't understand what racism is!
I’m not racist but why can’t I call a black person the ‘n’ word when I hear black people calling each other it? Sorry, if you want to call a black person the 'n' word you are a racist! Why do you want to call them that and why are you so bloody passionate about it? You open the can of worms and people redefine racism without any real understanding of the subject. Then it opens up the floodgates for angry people who don't undestand how to channel their anger, people who sucked it in before, think they have permission to abuse foreigners or worse. They were always there but society had standards it required from them. It doesn’t have them quite so much any more. The lines are faded.
The source of the problem? Globalisation. A good way for a small number of people and uncaring ruthless multi-national companies to make shedloads of money and many others to be used and exploited to make them even more. With all the technological advances, children should not be getting poorer than their parents. People should be able to work for a decent living. The establishment that allowed this to happen are facing a backlash. The public want to give them a bloody nose. Hilary Clinton wasn’t evil personified, but she was part of the political elite. part of the problem.
If you look at Trump. A horrible, nasty man. George W Bush didn’t vote for him! He hijacked the Republican party. He was a maverick with an anti-establishment message, but he called out to people who are suffering from globalisation and told them he would protect them. Not that he has shown any inclination to protect them before, looking to avoid paying his dues for instance. He is unlikely to be their saviour. But, the establishment just shrugged their shoulders and said/say 'what can we do?' We can't offer you any hope. Vote for us. Trump is a horrible man, but he spoke to people that nobody bothered about. Many people who voted for him don't trust him, but he was offering a message of hope. They might not have voted before, but they have been pushed to a point where they vote now.
If you look at history, this can be dangerous. When people reach that point of anger, they can be manipulated. We saw the disgusting site of UKIP using almost an exact copy of a Nazi poster during the Brexit referendum. Not enough people got animated about it! But if you go to your town centre and nobody speaks English and everybody seems to be an eastern European, you get angry. I get frustrated - I have to be honest. You are probably right to get angry, without blaming people who want better for themselves and their families. But the solutions/alternatives offered are not always the best ones. The establishment don’t offer reasonable solutions so those that do, however extreme, will become attractive.
With the demise of the Labour party, which is more bothered about gazing at its navel than looking for answers, the Conservative’s may be complacent. They are foolish to be if they are. This revolution – because that is what it is - is just as dangerous to them. Unless there is an economic rebalancing to correct a world that sh*ts on so many people, they will succumb to a non-establishment figure offering change at some point. The problem is of course, these people can be dangerous. The establishment have let us down by not listening or caring about the little man in this corporate multi-national world which they love to suck up to. Money flows into increasingly fewer pockets and that’s ok! Nothing we can do about it anyway!
The rest of Europe will go the same way as us. The beaurocrats don’t get it, but it is only having a decent life that gets better which keeps the population content. If you take that away from them – retiring at an increasingly old age, no pay rises, no security, austerity, fear for the future of your children….. they look for things to blame. And opportunists offer answers. If the establishment are not willing to chart a new course and address this – and all the signs suggest they are not, we are in for a very dangerous period. it may be too late now anyway. We have to hope it ends well. We really do!
Sorry this is long - got that off my chest.
Wow, what a great post, brilliant.
(I would just add that perhaps you misunderstood my post re calling the French "frogs".
The point I obviously didn't make clearly enough, was that there are some posters on here, that cry racism at all sorts of comments, that I would not consider to be racist comments. However on that occasion, no similar unjust cries were made from the same people.)
To further my earlier point, someone on social media shared an advert for ordinary guests to appear on a BBC daytime TV programme, specifically UK-based people who wanted Trump to win. The first 50 comments were almost entirely pissed off progressives blasting the BBC for daring to give a platform to racists, misogynists and fascists and in doing so entirely missed the point. These progressives are angry, and their anger is largely a result of being hurt and confused because they do not understand how ordinary men and women could support someone like Trump. And yet instead of listening to those who support Trump in order to understand why they feel that they, they want to deny them the freedom to express their views and opinions. It's like an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object - populists are pissed off because they face barriers to express themselves freely, and progressives are pissed off because there are not enough barriers to stop populists from expressing their views. Why can't we just have a conversation?
But the vast majority of the media is totally populist and anti-intellectual. This idea that an intellectual lefty elite are promoting liberalism and censoring out populist views is so obviously untrue. This is how the UKIP and Trump publicity machine works. The liberals fall into the trap of wasting time trying to justify their position allowing the agenda to be set for them, keeping them defensive, the reactionary populist just stick with creating more "self evident" BS and the papers lap it up.
The point I was making was that is progressive politics is to expand beyond keyboard warriors sitting on Twitter 23 hours a day, then they need to realise that the current tactic of calling everyone who is to the right of Trotsky racist/homophobic/fascist etc. is not working. In fact it is worse than not working, it is causing those who they need to convince to dig their heels in even more.
You cannot effect change unless you bring the swing-voters on board. These generally are the working/middle classes who are not self-aware enough to realise that nearly everything they read or see in the media is there to pursue an agenda, and as you said the bulk of this is largely in favour of right-wing or populist politics. There are several reasons for why the bulk of media people consume is largely of this particular agenda but one of the most crucial ones is that the right-wing are much, much better at boiling down talking points into simple, effective messages and slogans, e.g. EU is corrupt and wasteful, immigrants put stress on services and push wages down, benefits claimants are either scrounges or fraudsters, all foreigners are suspicious, do not trust people of colour, homosexuality is perverse, rape victims are liars, Christianity is under attack etc.
They get away with these because behind each of these messages is some small fact or correlation that has been completely twisted to serve a purpose. For example, a Christian baker refuses to bake a pro-gay marriage cake and gets prosecuted. This is twisted into "gays are trying to undermine our state religion and our values!". The message is a total lie but is based on a true story. This is largely thanks to how the human brain is wired - it is much easier to get someone to believe a lie if you link it to something that they know is true, than to convince someone something isn't true due to logic.
So progressives have two paths: either adapt their message to combat these tactics, or attempt to silence the populists. The latter is the easy, and wrong, path to follow. Try to silence people instead of engaging with them and you create a reason for people to distrust and hate you. It implies you know better or that you are superior. Unfortunately I do not see the progressives changing tactics anytime soon. The Labour conference was a vacuum of dissenting opinion, where anyone not pro-Corbyn was heckled, attacked or barracked. The NUS has been taken over by a group of actual fascists who through the use of tactics such as 'no-platforming' and 'safe spaces' are being used in order to create an environment where no views except left-wing, progressive views, can be publicly aired on university grounds.
Still not President yet - I remain unsure if he really wants the job. Think he likes the attention but the reality of the day to day job I just can't see him being suited to it and he'll be bored after a week. Reminds me a lot of Bojo.
I look forward to Kim Kardashian standing at the next election - she'd probably win.
If attacks of hate crimes are only going to be condemned by one side then I don't want to be a part of this conversation anymore.
That's disgraceful and wrong also, I've seen graffiti saying "white people Die" that is also disgusting and wrong. I know what I'd find worse though and that's being set upon and attacked because I voted the opposite way rather than reading graffiti which may be aimed towards me. That's why I commented. I am also not massively right wing myself, I was only born because of immigration and tend to be in the middle maybe swaying right. What I don't like is the fact that a lot of people I know through IMO biased media seem to think the far left are nice as pie lovie dovie people and that it's just Far right who act like animals.
If attacks of hate crimes are only going to be condemned by one side then I don't want to be a part of this conversation anymore.
That's disgraceful and wrong also, I've seen graffiti saying "white people Die" that is also disgusting and wrong. I know what I'd find worse though and that's being set upon and attacked because I voted the opposite way rather than reading graffiti which may be aimed towards me. That's why I commented. I am also not massively right wing myself, I was only born because of immigration and tend to be in the middle maybe swaying right. What I don't like is the fact that a lot of people I know through IMO biased media seem to think the far left are nice as pie lovie dovie people and that it's just Far right who act like animals.
Which media do you refer to - can't be the British tabloids?
I think the US with a history of slavery, lynchings, segregation etc may have a few issues which tend to effect one part of the population rather more. Peace and harmony won't be easy.....
There doesn't appear to be a far left in the States - this is the country of the KKK and McCarthyism. The supposedly left wing Democrat party there is centrist and has very few policies that could be labelled 'left wing' especially economically.
There is a huge racial divide which is sadly still in evidence - Trump won't solve it with his current rhetoric.
I think there's a genuine chance that someone will assassinate him, and I also believe that, had Hillary won someone would have gone for her as well.
In a campaign fought so aggressively, a lot of people hate Donald Trump and a lot of people hate Hillary Clinton. I haven't seen people have hatred for a politician like they do about these two.
And in a country with such free access to guns...
I really hope nothing like that happens obviously, but I think there will at least be a couple of attempts. In fact I think a kid from the UK was arrested for conspiracy to kill Trump a while back and he's being held in a US jail.
It just proves the courage of the man. He's putting his life on the line for the country that he loves. He really didn't need this, he had a life of luxury that we could only dream about, and a wonderful wife and family.
Oh FFS. I wasn't completely convinced before but now you're definitely just a wum. A shame because it was quite convincing for a while.
I think there's a genuine chance that someone will assassinate him, and I also believe that, had Hillary won someone would have gone for her as well.
In a campaign fought so aggressively, a lot of people hate Donald Trump and a lot of people hate Hillary Clinton. I haven't seen people have hatred for a politician like they do about these two.
And in a country with such free access to guns...
I really hope nothing like that happens obviously, but I think there will at least be a couple of attempts. In fact I think a kid from the UK was arrested for conspiracy to kill Trump a while back and he's being held in a US jail.
It just proves the courage of the man. He's putting his life on the line for the country that he loves. He really didn't need this, he had a life of luxury that we could only dream about, and a wonderful wife and family.
Oh FFS. I wasn't completely convinced before but now you're definitely just a wum. A shame because it was quite convincing for a while.
Nice posting.
And not rattled just realised he's wumming as you'd know very well about that and choosing not to engage in a reasoned argument.
I think there's a genuine chance that someone will assassinate him, and I also believe that, had Hillary won someone would have gone for her as well.
In a campaign fought so aggressively, a lot of people hate Donald Trump and a lot of people hate Hillary Clinton. I haven't seen people have hatred for a politician like they do about these two.
And in a country with such free access to guns...
I really hope nothing like that happens obviously, but I think there will at least be a couple of attempts. In fact I think a kid from the UK was arrested for conspiracy to kill Trump a while back and he's being held in a US jail.
It just proves the courage of the man. He's putting his life on the line for the country that he loves. He really didn't need this, he had a life of luxury that we could only dream about, and a wonderful wife and family.
Oh FFS. I wasn't completely convinced before but now you're definitely just a wum. A shame because it was quite convincing for a while.
Nice posting.
And not rattled just realised he's wumming as you'd know very well about that and choosing not to engage in a reasoned argument.
Ok, I'm just answering a question put by someone, asking for an example of "bad political correctness".
Please don't start a row, as I'm not looking for one.
Now, without splitting straws, as to whether this is or isn't, the point is it's in the news today as an example.
Actress Caroline Quentin has said that the traditional panto dame should be banned because it is "sexist, offensive and unflattering to women."
Now, this is trivial and I don't care one way or another, but it's this sort of stuff that has been spoken for what 30 years, that get's people backs up and has done over a considerable period of time.
Once again, please don't say what this to do with Brexit or Trump. I'm simply answering a question put, re an example of bad political correctness.
Comments
In a campaign fought so aggressively, a lot of people hate Donald Trump and a lot of people hate Hillary Clinton. I haven't seen people have hatred for a politician like they do about these two.
And in a country with such free access to guns...
I really hope nothing like that happens obviously, but I think there will at least be a couple of attempts. In fact I think a kid from the UK was arrested for conspiracy to kill Trump a while back and he's being held in a US jail.
Surprised there hasn't been more condemnation on here from those that are usually very shouty about these sorts of things.
There's some very big brooms in people's hands.
It's just as plausible as suggesting that those who have always held far right views just suddenly felt empowered to go out and act on their idiocy.
Just throwing that one out there.
I posted a little higher up the thread about confirmation bias...
We have a problem. The whole world does. People with no voice that suited the establishment fine have found it. There is a reason and some of the blame is irrational but it is a symptom of anger that needs to be expressed by those with previously no voice. An example? Political correctness, don’t we hate it? Well, sometimes it can push over the edge of what it should be, but it is a force for good on the whole. We don’t persecute homosexuals quite as much as we did for example. We don't have a society that accepts the abuse of kids. When you look back 30 years and beyond, were the attitudes a good thing? We try to think in a fair minded way and understand the views of others as best we can. That is part of a discipline that has come from political correctness. But some people go rabid at the very mention of it. Or go apesh*t when a non-racist refers to the French as frogs, because they don't understand what racism is!
I’m not racist but why can’t I call a black person the ‘n’ word when I hear black people calling each other it? Sorry, if you want to call a black person the 'n' word you are a racist! Why do you want to call them that and why are you so bloody passionate about it? You open the can of worms and people redefine racism without any real understanding of the subject. Then it opens up the floodgates for angry people who don't undestand how to channel their anger, people who sucked it in before, think they have permission to abuse foreigners or worse. They were always there but society had standards it required from them. It doesn’t have them quite so much any more. The lines are faded.
The source of the problem? Globalisation. A good way for a small number of people and uncaring ruthless multi-national companies to make shedloads of money and many others to be used and exploited to make them even more. With all the technological advances, children should not be getting poorer than their parents. People should be able to work for a decent living. The establishment that allowed this to happen are facing a backlash. The public want to give them a bloody nose. Hilary Clinton wasn’t evil personified, but she was part of the political elite. part of the problem.
If you look at Trump. A horrible, nasty man. George W Bush didn’t vote for him! He hijacked the Republican party. He was a maverick with an anti-establishment message, but he called out to people who are suffering from globalisation and told them he would protect them. Not that he has shown any inclination to protect them before, looking to avoid paying his dues for instance. He is unlikely to be their saviour. But, the establishment just shrugged their shoulders and said/say 'what can we do?' We can't offer you any hope. Vote for us. Trump is a horrible man, but he spoke to people that nobody bothered about. Many people who voted for him don't trust him, but he was offering a message of hope. They might not have voted before, but they have been pushed to a point where they vote now.
If you look at history, this can be dangerous. When people reach that point of anger, they can be manipulated. We saw the disgusting site of UKIP using almost an exact copy of a Nazi poster during the Brexit referendum. Not enough people got animated about it! But if you go to your town centre and nobody speaks English and everybody seems to be an eastern European, you get angry. I get frustrated - I have to be honest. You are probably right to get angry, without blaming people who want better for themselves and their families. But the solutions/alternatives offered are not always the best ones. The establishment don’t offer reasonable solutions so those that do, however extreme, will become attractive.
With the demise of the Labour party, which is more bothered about gazing at its navel than looking for answers, the Conservative’s may be complacent. They are foolish to be if they are. This revolution – because that is what it is - is just as dangerous to them. Unless there is an economic rebalancing to correct a world that sh*ts on so many people, they will succumb to a non-establishment figure offering change at some point. The problem is of course, these people can be dangerous. The establishment have let us down by not listening or caring about the little man in this corporate multi-national world which they love to suck up to. Money flows into increasingly fewer pockets and that’s ok! Nothing we can do about it anyway!
The rest of Europe will go the same way as us. The beaurocrats don’t get it, but it is only having a decent life that gets better which keeps the population content. If you take that away from them – retiring at an increasingly old age, no pay rises, no security, austerity, fear for the future of your children….. they look for things to blame. And opportunists offer answers. If the establishment are not willing to chart a new course and address this – and all the signs suggest they are not, we are in for a very dangerous period. it may be too late now anyway. We have to hope it ends well. We really do!
Sorry this is long - got that off my chest.
I can't be bothered to get into neo-liberalism, alt-right, political name calling bullshit but surely elevating such a man, empowering and emboldening like minded people and frightening and isolating minority groups is fundamentally wrong, whatever your political leaning? And for that matter, whether or not Trump himself even believes it - the message of some people being worth more than others and bullying and raging your way to the top, and that being endorsed by the US nation, remains the same regardless.
It can't and won't end well because it is an approach that relied on embittering and enraging a section of a population against several others. It leaves a nation divided for one man's folly.
American parents are soon going to find it an interesting and difficult experience when they're explaining to their sons why it's not acceptable to refer to girls as dogs who are there to be abused when their President is happy to do so.
@queensland_addick I agree that you shouldn't have been referred to as mein fuhrer, no one should be sinking to the level of name calling. However, I do feel that some of your "mwahahaha" post are deliberately antagonistic.
Additionally that video of the black youths attacking a man because "you voted trump" is disgusting and I hope that they face the deserved justice for that crime. That makes them no better than the people committing hate crimes on the other side.
And there have been hate crimes on the other side. I saw someone say that it could be lefty activists doing it to stoke further hate, and while I accept that there is a small chance that this is true I think it is much more likely that it was a genuine hate crime. I lived in America and I know that there are deep divisions that were running under the surface before. These have been magnified during this election campaign. There are groups, however small and they are not in the majority, who will feel that their views are empowered by this election.
I think it was Hassan Minhaj on the daily show who said it best on the daily show yesterday (left/liberal leaning for sure) -
"You personally may not be a racist, sexist, xenophobe, but that comes with the package. So if you take that deal what you're telling me is 'hey, I don't hate you, I just don't care about you'."
I have no problem with people putting themselves first, we all do. But to laugh in their faces or tell them just to get over it is wrong. They have genuine concerns that need to be addressed, just because they aren't your concerns does not devalue them and we all have to listen to each other if we want to make progress.
(I would just add that perhaps you misunderstood my post re calling the French "frogs".
The point I obviously didn't make clearly enough, was that there are some posters on here, that cry racism at all sorts of comments, that I would not consider to be racist comments. However on that occasion, no similar unjust cries were made from the same people.)
I look forward to Kim Kardashian standing at the next election - she'd probably win.
I think the US with a history of slavery, lynchings, segregation etc may have a few issues which tend to effect one part of the population rather more. Peace and harmony won't be easy.....
There doesn't appear to be a far left in the States - this is the country of the KKK and McCarthyism. The supposedly left wing Democrat party there is centrist and has very few policies that could be labelled 'left wing' especially economically.
There is a huge racial divide which is sadly still in evidence - Trump won't solve it with his current rhetoric.
And not rattled just realised he's wumming as you'd know very well about that and choosing not to engage in a reasoned argument.
Sounds about right. Confirmation bias.
Please don't start a row, as I'm not looking for one.
Now, without splitting straws, as to whether this is or isn't, the point is it's in the news today as an example.
Actress Caroline Quentin has said that the traditional panto dame should be banned because it is "sexist, offensive and unflattering to women."
Now, this is trivial and I don't care one way or another, but it's this sort of stuff that has been spoken for what 30 years, that get's people backs up and has done over a considerable period of time.
Once again, please don't say what this to do with Brexit or Trump. I'm simply answering a question put, re an example of bad political correctness.