It's disconcerting to me that we're now talking about tweets against white people and white people are like "oh that's terrible" but we have people gratifying swastikas and white power messages and that ones seems to have just gone right past you.
No that wasn't the point. The point was that theres extreme bollocks from both sides because of the result. People need to get a grip.
The original point was that racist graffiti was sprayed on college buildings in response to an election result and people were being attacked because of their race/religion.
Of course it doesn't concern me. The people tweeting that stuff do so from a position of perceived (and often real) disadvantage and I don't believe for a second that they're after a white-free society. It's a question of tone and societal positioning. >Notice how most of the tweeters are female?>
What is really disturbing for me is the way this thread is turning into the Brexit thread - all 'you're a racist' and 'no I'm not, you're a lefty Guardian reader'.
Forget politics, forget views on immigration or the people who have been left behind, forget left or right, forget revolution, forget the little man speaking, forget working-class, middle-class, upper-class, under-class, forget democracy, forget totalitarianism and so on ......
Remember, Trump is a liar and cheat, a business failure, a chancer who took his moment, an altogether despicable individual. He's in it for the little man queuing up on food lines in the rust belt? Is he bollox.
Absolutely. He's a cretin, like 95% of the rest of the people involved in politics, which is why he will fit in well.
I don't know if I'd go with 95%, but I do largely agree. That whole "desire for change" thing sure does feel a bit odd though, don't you think?
Yeah pretty much, almost as strange as seeing college students crying and needing counceling. The last 24 hours all very OTT.
We heard the same stuff about foreigners being strung up in the street after Brexit results, mostly complete fabricated bollocks
Interesting use of the word 'mostly' - not sure how you have measured that, but regardless, you are implying that at least some of it is not made-up.
I think here in the UK these incidents are so far mercifully rare (which is not to say that we should ignore it all..), but you never know in the USofA. This is a place that really did lynch people (in my lifetime) just for their skin colour. And they have guns... and significant concentrations of real whackos in pockets.
I hope your words don't come back to haunt us VG...
A few brain dead dickheads will use yesterday's results as fuel to act like racists arse holes, but the complete overreaction on social media yesterday was insane. It was like people trying to outdo each other on the extreme scale, almost begging for retweets.
Yeah agree that there is overreaction everywhere you look. But the KKK is a very real organisation, hard to know how big it is -- we're not only talking about the odd random nutjob
What is really disturbing for me is the way this thread is turning into the Brexit thread - all 'you're a racist' and 'no I'm not, you're a lefty Guardian reader'.
Forget politics, forget views on immigration or the people who have been left behind, forget left or right, forget revolution, forget the little man speaking, forget working-class, middle-class, upper-class, under-class, forget democracy, forget totalitarianism and so on ......
Remember, Trump is a liar and cheat, a business failure, a chancer who took his moment, an altogether despicable individual. He's in it for the little man queuing up on food lines in the rust belt? Is he bollox.
Absolutely. He's a cretin, like 95% of the rest of the people involved in politics, which is why he will fit in well.
I don't know if I'd go with 95%, but I do largely agree. That whole "desire for change" thing sure does feel a bit odd though, don't you think?
Yeah pretty much, almost as strange as seeing college students crying and needing counceling. The last 24 hours all very OTT.
just so we are clear on this, acting like a racist cunt is only acceptable when you've got real reason to be?
I'd say it was never acceptable, but if there's an oppressor/oppressed relationship (as there appears to be when it comes to race in the US for example) it's certainly different
just so we are clear on this, acting like a racist cunt is only acceptable when you've got real reason to be?
I'd say it was never acceptable, but if there's an oppressor/oppressed relationship (as there appears to be when it comes to race in the US for example) it's certainly different
An excellent articulation. Death threats are never okay. It's also important to understand that we have race relations in this country that, as I've pointed out numerous times on here, certain people feel more vulnerable today than they ever have before. As redlanered pointed out, the KKK (and other white supremacists/militia groups) are real and organized. And right now they feel empowered.
Right, I need a break from this and need to concentrate on work anyway so going to shut off social media and the forum for a bit. Be nice to each other. Remember we're all humans and a lot of us, of all races, ethnicities, religions, and genders are scared for completely understandable reasons.
Of course it doesn't concern me. The people tweeting that stuff do so from a position of perceived (and often real) disadvantage and I don't believe for a second that they're after a white-free society. It's a question of tone and societal positioning. >Notice how most of the tweeters are female?>
People in this country ARE being affected by immigration - my husband has experience of this working in the kitchen of a pub/restaurant.
Before Romanians were allowed free access, my husband was paid well above the minimum wage, as it was difficult to get people to do the job. By paying above the minimum wage they were able to recruit British workers.
When Romanians were allowed free access to the labour market my husband's wages did not increase until it was forced on his employer with this year's increase.
For 4 years he had no wage increase. The Romanians were happy to work for minimum wage and whenever anyone left, one of their friends or family was waiting for a job and it wasn't necessary to advertise. Consequently a British worker had no chance of being employed.
All the other employees doing the same work as my husband speak very little English and when they work together, speak their own language and my husband feels like a foreigner in his own country.
At the age of 62 it is not easy for him to find alternative employment so he is stuck with it for now.
With the greatest respect, it's not a Romanians fault that your old man is doing kP work in his 60s. There's part of a generation that presumed they had jobs for life so didn't bother learning skills or trades. My stepdad is that Same and finds himself scanning bags at a airport or doing delivery work.
My husband is actually semi- retired. He did have an engineering job for which he served an apprenticeship but the industry he was in no longer has any businesses down here.
The point of my post is to show that cheap eastern european labour does drive down wages and affect British workers.
No, greedy employers drive down wages, it's their choice. Even then studies suggest the impact is minimal, though I do sympathise with Mr ME14s situation I would like to add.
Here's a BBC article about it. It's difficult to be able to tell its size as it's mostly online based.
They sound like a total and utter bunch of twerps
For the most part it's the G.I.F.T (Greater Internet Fuckwit Theory) principle given a new form - essentially a bunch of disillusioned (primarily young) people (primarily male) with some seriously weird and unhealthy ideas of entitlement and a desire to actively cause offence (which they believe, incorrectly, to be integral to ''free speech'') manage to track down and communicate with others of a similar mindset and the whole thing becomes self-perpetuating. There's no moderation, only the most extreme of outlooks becoming accepted as the norm. It's essentially the American answer to Britain First, but with America being generally more right-wing than the UK it seems to have taken on far more impetus than B.F has managed on our side of the pond.
It's pretty fucked up and should be held distinct and apart from ''mainstream'' Right ideas - which is where Trump may become unstuck. His rhetoric appeals to Alt-Right types but alienates the traditionalist Right, who are for the most part the dominant part of the Republican party.
I'd be inclined (based on no evidence) to believe that the alt right are just a shouty fringe with little actual impact, but a very easy target for the left, like islamic hate preachers are for anti immigration types. Trouble is that ideas like that, once out in the open can't be put back and are subsumed into the mainstream by osmosis.
What is needed nore than anything else is a greater emphasis on critical thinking skills. There's no filter on the interner, we will need to do that ourselves
I like to think of it as an attempted reclamation. Alt-right has their frog, the rest of still have Kermit, Toad of Toad Hall and of course the incomparable heroic Frogman.
I am not trying to be controversial in what I am saying, I wouldn't have voted for Trump... But....
What is it about the left and not accepting democracy? I don't remember mass protests when Obama won (please correct me if I'm wrong!) and I don't believe that there would have been any issues had the Brexit referendum ended in a remain vote. I genuinely believe that the left are 100% sure they are right, and that anything that deviates from that are wrong and must be shot down.
Genuinely, I just don't understand why the left seem to hate democracy so much, and as I have said before, I believe it is because they "know" they are right.
If the right win, it is a disgrace and is the result of uneducated people being manipulated to vote against their own interests. The fools. If the left win, it was the right decision and we can continue to progress humankind. Congratulations to all involved for advancing humankind.
But what about those left behind? A lot of them are white, a lot of them feel like they would have had jobs for life in previous generations. A lot of them feel like immigration has given them a raw deal. A lot of them voted Trump, I wouldn't have, I'm doing just fine thank you very much, but if I was in their situation, I would have.
Various friends of my wife received racist abuse yesterday as well as some of their kids at school, all along the lines of 'go home' , 'you are getting deported' etc. Mother in law petrified about what's going to happen. So, while we're all debating over the rights and wrongs of Trump's election remember - this is some people's lives now, in the 21st century.
I said it after similar reports back in June, and I'll say it again: those who are partaking in such actions were most likely doing so before.
No one woke up as an average human being, went to a polling station and voted Trump, and then walked out a flaming racist with a burning hatred in their heart. These feelings were there last week, and they're still there this week. No change.
Sure, the result may have provided them with a means of legitimising their views.. But is it not just as scary to think that those people were walking around in plain sight harbouring that hatred all along? I'd rather be able to see my foe than to contemplate whether they're sitting next to me, seething. Once you see the problem you can confront it.
Would a Hillary victory have seen these same individuals going around randomly hugging minorities and drawing hearts on random cars with lipstick?! Of course not. They'd just be the ones on Twitter now... But blaming blacks and Latinos for destroying their country. Just like the large number of "fuck white people" and "I hope white people die" tweets were posted yesterday. Are we going to confront those views too? Or are we going to label all Hillary supporters as racist and claim that they all hate white people? Hate begets hate.
It's classic causation vs correlation: America isn't in a state because Trump got voted in. Trump got voted in because America is in a state. A small percentage of people didn't become racist because they voted Trump, a small percentage of people voted Trump because they're racist. (Whilst I'm sure, like Brexit, a larger percentage voted for different reasons.)
What you're seeing is the result of social issues that were bubbling away for many years, not just since the election results came in. I've already said it once, but I'll reiterate: it's a traversty that those issues developed so intensely and were allowed to become so strong that this now happens. The blame for that doesn't lie in the past 12 months, it goes back much deeper.
Various friends of my wife received racist abuse yesterday as well as some of their kids at school, all along the lines of 'go home' , 'you are getting deported' etc. Mother in law petrified about what's going to happen. So, while we're all debating over the rights and wrongs of Trump's election remember - this is some people's lives now, in the 21st century.
Comments
An end to political correctness and socialist schooling though - I'm all ears! How will it happen?
I wonder if he has any words on the rumours (he started) that the election was going to be rigged..?
46.9% didn't vote
25.6% voted Clinton
25.5% voted Trump
Right, I need a break from this and need to concentrate on work anyway so going to shut off social media and the forum for a bit. Be nice to each other. Remember we're all humans and a lot of us, of all races, ethnicities, religions, and genders are scared for completely understandable reasons.
https://www.ft.com/content/0deacb52-178b-11e6-9d98-00386a18e39d
All from last night (I believe)
Well it cheered me up anyway. #StaypuftForPresident2020.
Here's a BBC article about it. It's difficult to be able to tell its size as it's mostly online based.
It's pretty fucked up and should be held distinct and apart from ''mainstream'' Right ideas - which is where Trump may become unstuck. His rhetoric appeals to Alt-Right types but alienates the traditionalist Right, who are for the most part the dominant part of the Republican party.
A longer summary is: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37021991 (leaving aside preconceptions about BBC 'bias' it seems pretty accurate to what I've learned elsewhere.)
(please feel free to add/correct as necessary those who know better/more.)
What is needed nore than anything else is a greater emphasis on critical thinking skills. There's no filter on the interner, we will need to do that ourselves
Looks like they are getting on well! LOL!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37945225
What is it about the left and not accepting democracy? I don't remember mass protests when Obama won (please correct me if I'm wrong!) and I don't believe that there would have been any issues had the Brexit referendum ended in a remain vote. I genuinely believe that the left are 100% sure they are right, and that anything that deviates from that are wrong and must be shot down.
Genuinely, I just don't understand why the left seem to hate democracy so much, and as I have said before, I believe it is because they "know" they are right.
If the right win, it is a disgrace and is the result of uneducated people being manipulated to vote against their own interests. The fools.
If the left win, it was the right decision and we can continue to progress humankind. Congratulations to all involved for advancing humankind.
But what about those left behind? A lot of them are white, a lot of them feel like they would have had jobs for life in previous generations. A lot of them feel like immigration has given them a raw deal. A lot of them voted Trump, I wouldn't have, I'm doing just fine thank you very much, but if I was in their situation, I would have.