It's all very well to have a 'vision' of where one wants to get to. But coming in, from a distance, as RD did, and dismantling and re-jigging things, whilst showing little desire to engage with the paying customers - many of decades longstanding - shows a lack of tact and a lack of humility. Just because he's been Billy Whizz in other business ventures means little if he sees fit to mash our square peg of a club into his round hole of previous success and, as a consequence of so doing, dismantle what makes us 'us' - and mess with people's emotions, too. So much of the discord could have been avoided if management had met with us civilly from the outset. We don't require explanations to the Nth degree on everything. But it would feel so much better if our thoughts, various though they are, were listened to, and once they'd been condensed into an understanding, acted upon where things were valid and achievable. CAFC has succeeded in recent times due, largely, to stability of management - both in terms of ownership and football coaching / recruitment. Players felt valued (for the most part) and fans were confident that their voice was not only heard, but had a tangible input into how things proceeded. How sad that much of this has been lost in so short a time. If RD is to continue as owner, and KM as CEO, they would do well to show a willingness to engage meaningfully with the supporters. This would surely be to the benefit of both parties. If they won't, I fear that RD's tenure will remain malign and detrimental to the future of Charlton Athletic.
As the rain pours down in Manchester, I thought I would try to get my views on the current crisis across, as I am one of the 98% silent majority.
I have been following Charlton since 1965 and after retiring I have been a season ticket holder and a Valley Gold member. I have been to every home and away fixture this season ( bar MK Dons).
I fully support Roland Duchatelet’s aims of: 1. Creating a team that is competitive in the Championship with Premiere League ambitions. 2. Develop and improve the infrastructure of The Valley. 3. Improve the training facilities and Academy setup at Sparrows Lane, in order to provide our own players of the future.
I am pretty sure that most fans would support these objectives, so the arguments are around how they are to be achieved and how fast they happen.
Having been through the traumatic times of Hulyer and Fryer and the gradual decline of The Valley under Jimenez and Slater I want to see a steady evolution of the club, with a realistic budget that does not put the club in financial jeopardy in the future.
Duchatelet has certainly not got everything right. Player recruitment has obviously been a concern, especially last season and to a lesser extent this, with some signings not up to the standard or especially the rigour of the Championship. The important point is that he and his management team are learning from their mistakes, and the quality of the present squad shows a steady improvement. (although results might harm this argument!)
The second issue that some fans have complained about is the rapid turnover of managers/coaches. I personally supported all the changes except not giving Jose Riga a chance at the start of last season after his performance in the relegation battle. I supported the sacking of Guy Luzon because towards the end of his tenure he was playing players in unfamiliar positions and his rigid adherence to 4-4-2 left us undermanned in midfield. He seemed to lack tactical understanding that would have enabled us to scrape some points during our injury crisis.
The third issue is the CEO, Katrien Meire, she appears to have upset a great deal of people and has been accused of lying to fans, incompetent management of the club’s staff and mismanaging several issues such as the season ticket sales and the reorganisation of the lounges. I really don’t have enough insite or knowledge into what is going on inside the club, day to day to have a firm view on whether she has been beneficial to the development of CAFC. At the moment I’m on the fence, but I am willing at this stage to give her the benefit of the doubt until the end of this season. Changing CEO’s mid season may cause more problems than it solves.
Onto the protests, I have been disappointed at the crude sledging of RD and KM on here. What has it got to do with whether they come from Belgium or that KM is a woman? You are either successful at running a football club or not. The xenophobic and misogynistic rants that have appeared on Charlton Life are unacceptable. If you want to campaign for a change use arguments containing factual information not swearing rants, and empty talk. It concerns me that CL gets hijacked by some people for their own agenda, a bit like Militant infiltrating the Labour Party in the ‘80’s. Perhaps we have some UKIP/BNP/EDL members spouting their abhorrent rhetoric on here.
So, as a member of the 98% silent majority what am I going to do next? 1. I will not support the protest outside the West Stand against Ipswich. 2. I will not be supporting the Black and White campaign. 3. I will get behind the team fully during this relegation battle, I really don’t want to be in Div 1 next season. 4. I will continue to monitor the decision making prowess of our owners/CEO to try and get a balanced view as to their progress and intentions of CAFC.
What should the 2% vocal majority do? Well that is a thing that I should leave up to you. I fully support your right to protest, and make your complaints heard. What I’m not picking up is what you want to change other than wanting Duchatelet and Meire to leave the club with immediate effect.
My own opinion is while the club is in this difficult relegation fight, that you postpone your protests at the Ipswich game, both inside and outside the ground. Communicate with the club that you were going to hold mass demonstrations, but in light of the on-field problems they are being held back until the New Year. If, in your views, that the club have not shown a willingness to address the issues raised in the Fans Forum, start up your protests after Christmas.
My emotions for the club haven’t changed over the past 50 years, if anything, since I have retired and can spend more time following CAFC, they have strengthened. I am continually surprised on reading CL how many fans comment on, “ I want my Charlton back” and “ I’ve fallen out of love with my team”. Well the club is still here and it needs all the support it can get at the present moment.
So, finally, AM I THE ONLY ONE?
good post - i was up for protest - i have now protested and since then we have won well and signed a new striker - i am happy to support again - if we start hurtling towards league 1 again and don't continue to add proven quality to the squad, i will be back in protest mode again. I like the objectives and don't doubt them - i was protesting to change their methods, not their aims. Others, i'm not sure about - some r narked at being held at arms length, some are a bit dim and get whipped up in hysteria but the vast majority r just scared of league 1 again - im well in that vast majority - keep repeating the same mistakes and skirting with league 1 and i will be for all out change - this is their last chance to show they have learnt what is needed and i will support them to do that.
I wish my wife was as easily pleased as you !
If there was a queue of better alternatives lining up to pump in millions i may be a bit more choosy. Given that in the last 10 years, these are the only lot that have taken it on (apart from the spivs and this lot are far less dangerous than them) then i think we owe them another chance to get it right. Whether KM is up to it or not is irrelevant - she's just a mouthpiece - rd and rm r running this show.
Even though I don't fully agree with what you say, it's good to see this argument, your trying to be realistically positive, sort of refreshing.
If we could at one point be really financially healthy and self sufficient, then that's fantastic. everyone's a winner.
Money and investment aside....I don't like the way the club is being run and altered, trying to be tailored for people that probably didn't know charlton existed 3 years ago. They just don't get it and are losing existing fans interest which is a heartbreaker. The Belgian raciest chanting or whatever it is, the feeling about them as Belgians, even though perhaps wrong, it's probably just linked and related to the fact that they are foreign investors and don't know the taste of the club so are narrow minded and think it's ok doing embarrassing gimmicks. Certain extremely lame gimmicks won't work for people, just because Katrien thinks they are good ideas. The score on the pitch video advert, on reflection was just so inaccurate, careless, risky and arrogant thinking.
His business model for charlton is not a set of bad ideas but they are quite boring for football fans to want to buy into. Improving the youth academy is great and if it helps improve performances on the pitch from home grown talent or gets us few bob on decent player sales then it's going in the right understandable direction for a more secure long term future.
My opinion of Meire has changed over last month or so...I thought people were just digging her out when she was genuine and hard working, the puppet just doing job she's paid to do and sticking by it, but that's far from the truth, she is a problem for the club and I'm afraid to say I think she will be at charlton for a worryingly long time.
I'm more than happy for RD to be the owner as long as he is willing to learn from his mistakes. The work on the ground, academy focus, and some of the signings have been very welcome.
The sale of YK and the bizarre free transfer of Michael Morrison were obvious mistakes. The failure of the network in terms of strengthening the squad combined with an incredible merry-go-round of managers particularly needs to be learned from.
Hopefully, the signing of Vaz Te is a step in the right direction.
As you say, most Addicks can get behind the objectives. On the face of it they appear sensible and you would hope that anyone owning a football club would want to get the right infrastructure in place to enable the club to move forward. Unfortunately they are yet to show that they know how to achieve those goals. For me the time scale is less important than being able to see where we are going. If we were consistently improving on a season by season basis, I'm sure many fans would be content. That is not the case however.
Meire tells us that the spend on player wages is up 40%, but are we seeing that spend translated into results on the pitch? Clearly we are not. In fact, despite Duchatelet ploughing his millions into the club, the on the field situation is actually unchanged. As you rightly say there are issues on the recruitment side, both players and managers have been recruited that clearly are not good enough. I accept that every club buys a few players that are not up to the job, but can we be sure that the Belgian, Hungarian and Spanish scouts that were mentioned at the recent meeting all have the relevant experience and knowledge to judge what players are good enough for our division? They talk about £9m spent on players, but how much of that was on players that flopped and had to be loaned to third rate clubs around the globe because 'there isn't a market for them'. In other words, they are so poor, they cannot command even the smallest of transfer fees.
The recruitment of managers is a completely different story. It would appear that the owner believes that finding a manager with relevant experience is secondary to whether he already has a relationship with him. So far Duchatelet has appointed four managers and despite what Katrien Meire says, they have not all proved to be the right decision, it's quite the contrary in fact.
Riga did a great job keeping us up but did so by refusing to use Duchatelet's poor loanees and it's speculated that due to that he put the block on any ambitions he had of getting the job permanently. Bob Peeters came in without a credible track record in management and despite a good start it became obvious that he was out of his depth. Then came Luzon, under-qualified, yet chosen above many other more experienced candidate and touted as a possible Alex Ferguson in the making. Now regardless of whether you think his sacking was the right decision, he should never have been appointed in the first place and his eventual sacking so early in the season proves that to be the case.
So now we have Karel. Yet another contact that has no track record to speak of and appears to only have the job because the owner 'trusts him'. Now forgive me here, but I can't quite get over the fact that an owner of a business would employ under qualified staff to run the most important aspects of it's operation. Afterall, with no product on the field, we have no product at all. Duchatelet is either stupid, excessively naive or completely clueless. I don't think that Duchatelet is any of those things, and his highly successful electronics business would be testament to that. So that only leaves me to conclude that he is a little bit mad or deluded, which doesn't give me a great deal of faith with his ability to be able to take us forward as a club.
In terms of Katrien Meire. Whilst I do not condone any abuse, sexist, xenophobic, or otherwise, she has presided over some of the worst decisions we have seen in recent times. Successive failures in manager appointments, player recruitment, operational catastrophes, poorly thought out fan initiatives and the driving of a wedge between many fans and the club, has showed her to be completely out of her depth. What exactly have we seen her do right during her tenure thus far? It's my personal view that the spin, lies, call it what you want, has gone too far and we are now in a situation where the trust between Meire and the fans may be beyond repair. The recent meeting seems to support that theory, as at no time did I get the impression that she even understood why the fans are so detached. It's not just about the aims of the club, it's all the other things that are talked about to death on these boards.
Regarding the protests, I firstly take exception to the reference with UKIP, the EDL and the BNP. I think it's completely uncalled for to try to label a number of concerned fans as neo-nazi types. Now whilst I wasn't there for the protest, I watched Matt Wright's video very closely, and from what I could see, the vast majority of the protesters were normal men, women and children who were concerned for the future of our club. I wholly accept that some of the remarks that were made were uncalled for, as are some of the opinions I read on CL and other social media outlets, but I've never thought of them to be anything more sinister than naive throwaway comments by passionate fans who have become angry at a new regime that are changing the very fabric of a club they've supported for, in some cases, decades.
I firmly believe that the vast majority of fans would get behind the club if they could demonstrate that they have the required skills to turn around this clubs fortunes. Whilst there are many calls for the owner to go, there are plenty more who feel that change could bring about a worse situation. Many of those who want the owner to go may change their minds if we start to see their 'plan' working out. If Duchatelet, Meire and Co. want the fans to back them, they've got to prove that they can meet the ambitions they purport to have for the club.
It's all very them well bragging about the money they've spent at the club, but we are yet to see the value they have added.
I would add that the protests would have a lot more traction if they resolved this fundamental question. People who don't support RD out - and the various CASTrust surveys this year haven't revealed a huge demand for it - are going to find it difficult to get behind protests where that is the aim.
Personally speaking, as a devil we know I think RD could be a lot lot worse and that's stopping me from demanding he sells up. It's not the objectives that are the problem, if they're genuine, but how he and his team are trying to achieve them. So to me the aim of any protest should be to secure commitment to changing the hows. The approach to recruiting managers is just one example, and the answer on the night was jaw dropping.
As you say, most Addicks can get behind the objectives. On the face of it they appear sensible and you would hope that anyone owning a football club would want to get the right infrastructure in place to enable the club to move forward. Unfortunately they are yet to show that they know how to achieve those goals. For me the time scale is less important than being able to see where we are going. If we were consistently improving on a season by season basis, I'm sure many fans would be content. That is not the case however.
Meire tells us that the spend on player wages is up 40%, but are we seeing that spend translated into results on the pitch? Clearly we are not. In fact, despite Duchatelet ploughing his millions into the club, the on the field situation is actually unchanged. As you rightly say there are issues on the recruitment side, both players and managers have been recruited that clearly are not good enough. I accept that every club buys a few players that are not up to the job, but can we be sure that the Belgian, Hungarian and Spanish scouts that were mentioned at the recent meeting all have the relevant experience and knowledge to judge what players are good enough for our division? They talk about £9m spent on players, but how much of that was on players that flopped and had to be loaned to third rate clubs around the globe because 'there isn't a market for them'. In other words, they are so poor, they cannot command even the smallest of transfer fees.
The recruitment of managers is a completely different story. It would appear that the owner believes that finding a manager with relevant experience is secondary to whether he already has a relationship with him. So far Duchatelet has appointed four managers and despite what Katrien Meire says, they have not all proved to be the right decision, it's quite the contrary in fact.
Riga did a great job keeping us up but did so by refusing to use Duchatelet's poor loanees and it's speculated that due to that he put the block on any ambitions he had of getting the job permanently. Bob Peeters came in without a credible track record in management and despite a good start it became obvious that he was out of his depth. Then came Luzon, under-qualified, yet chosen above many other more experienced candidate and touted as a possible Alex Ferguson in the making. Now regardless of whether you think his sacking was the right decision, he should never have been appointed in the first place and his eventual sacking so early in the season proves that to be the case.
So now we have Karel. Yet another contact that has no track record to speak of and appears to only have the job because the owner 'trusts him'. Now forgive me here, but I can't quite get over the fact that an owner of a business would employ under qualified staff to run the most important aspects of it's operation. Afterall, with no product on the field, we have no product at all. Duchatelet is either stupid, excessively naive or completely clueless. I don't think that Duchatelet is any of those things, and his highly successful electronics business would be testament to that. So that only leaves me to conclude that he is a little bit mad or deluded, which doesn't give me a great deal of faith with his ability to be able to take us forward as a club.
In terms of Katrien Meire. Whilst I do not condone any abuse, sexist, xenophobic, or otherwise, she has presided over some of the worst decisions we have seen in recent times. Successive failures in manager appointments, player recruitment, operational catastrophes, poorly thought out fan initiatives and the driving of a wedge between many fans and the club, has showed her to be completely out of her depth. What exactly have we seen her to right during her tenure so far? It's my personal view that the spin, lies, call it what you want, has gone too far and we are now in a situation where the trust between Meire and the fans may be beyond repair. The recent meeting seems to support that claim as at no time did I get the impression that she even understood why the fans are so detached. It's not just about the aims of the club, it's all the other things that are talked about to death on these boards.
Regarding the protests, I firstly take exception to the reference with UKIP, the EDL and the BNP. I think it's completely uncalled for to try to label a number of concerned fans as neo-nazi types. Now whilst I wasn't there for the protest, I watched Matt Wright's video very closely, and from what I could see, the vast majority of the protesters were normal men, women and children who were concerned for the future of our club. I wholly accept that some of the remarks that were made were uncalled for, as are some of the opinions I read on CL and other social media outlets, but I've never thought of them to be anything more sinister than naive throwaway comments by passionate fans who have become angry at a new regime that are changing the very fabric of a club they've supported for, in some cases, decades.
I firmly believe that the vast majority of fans would get behind the club if they could demonstrate that they have the required skills to turn around this clubs fortunes. Whilst there are many calls for the owner to go, there are plenty more who feel that change could bring about a worse situation. Many of those who want the owner to go may change their minds if we start to see their 'plan' working out. If Duchatelet, Meire and Co. want the fans to back them, they've got to prove that they can meet the ambitions they purport to have for the club.
It's all very them well bragging about the money they've spent at the club, but we are yet to see the value they have added.
Absolutely the point, from a playing perspective at least.
I was passionately in favour of RD to start with and am now equally convinced that, as thing stand, he is not good for the club.
Personally I think that an experienced CEO would be as good for RD as it would be for the club - KM is out of her depth and her antics have just widened the gap between fans and the owner. I think KM has amplified and added to RD's deficits.
RD had his 69th birthday celebration by opening a pub next to the St-Truiden (STVV) football stadion. He also lives nearby. Please note this a newspaper citing, but the article states that he's now over the Standard Liège debacle and almost done with anything related football. He said: I'm gonna play some more card games and (something you find in pubs - see attached photo, 'cause no idea how you guys called it English). http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1325/Standard/article/detail/2524759/2015/11/15/Duchatelet-naast-miljardair-nu-ook-cafebaas.dhtml
Oh lovely, a fashion spindle! You can make the little men wear such dashing shorts!
As the rain pours down in Manchester, I thought I would try to get my views on the current crisis across, as I am one of the 98% silent majority.
I have been following Charlton since 1965 and after retiring I have been a season ticket holder and a Valley Gold member. I have been to every home and away fixture this season ( bar MK Dons).
I fully support Roland Duchatelet’s aims of: 1. Creating a team that is competitive in the Championship with Premiere League ambitions. 2. Develop and improve the infrastructure of The Valley. 3. Improve the training facilities and Academy setup at Sparrows Lane, in order to provide our own players of the future.
I am pretty sure that most fans would support these objectives, so the arguments are around how they are to be achieved and how fast they happen.
Having been through the traumatic times of Hulyer and Fryer and the gradual decline of The Valley under Jimenez and Slater I want to see a steady evolution of the club, with a realistic budget that does not put the club in financial jeopardy in the future.
Duchatelet has certainly not got everything right. Player recruitment has obviously been a concern, especially last season and to a lesser extent this, with some signings not up to the standard or especially the rigour of the Championship. The important point is that he and his management team are learning from their mistakes, and the quality of the present squad shows a steady improvement. (although results might harm this argument!)
The second issue that some fans have complained about is the rapid turnover of managers/coaches. I personally supported all the changes except not giving Jose Riga a chance at the start of last season after his performance in the relegation battle. I supported the sacking of Guy Luzon because towards the end of his tenure he was playing players in unfamiliar positions and his rigid adherence to 4-4-2 left us undermanned in midfield. He seemed to lack tactical understanding that would have enabled us to scrape some points during our injury crisis.
The third issue is the CEO, Katrien Meire, she appears to have upset a great deal of people and has been accused of lying to fans, incompetent management of the club’s staff and mismanaging several issues such as the season ticket sales and the reorganisation of the lounges. I really don’t have enough insite or knowledge into what is going on inside the club, day to day to have a firm view on whether she has been beneficial to the development of CAFC. At the moment I’m on the fence, but I am willing at this stage to give her the benefit of the doubt until the end of this season. Changing CEO’s mid season may cause more problems than it solves.
Onto the protests, I have been disappointed at the crude sledging of RD and KM on here. What has it got to do with whether they come from Belgium or that KM is a woman? You are either successful at running a football club or not. The xenophobic and misogynistic rants that have appeared on Charlton Life are unacceptable. If you want to campaign for a change use arguments containing factual information not swearing rants, and empty talk. It concerns me that CL gets hijacked by some people for their own agenda, a bit like Militant infiltrating the Labour Party in the ‘80’s. Perhaps we have some UKIP/BNP/EDL members spouting their abhorrent rhetoric on here.
So, as a member of the 98% silent majority what am I going to do next? 1. I will not support the protest outside the West Stand against Ipswich. 2. I will not be supporting the Black and White campaign. 3. I will get behind the team fully during this relegation battle, I really don’t want to be in Div 1 next season. 4. I will continue to monitor the decision making prowess of our owners/CEO to try and get a balanced view as to their progress and intentions of CAFC.
What should the 2% vocal majority do? Well that is a thing that I should leave up to you. I fully support your right to protest, and make your complaints heard. What I’m not picking up is what you want to change other than wanting Duchatelet and Meire to leave the club with immediate effect.
My own opinion is while the club is in this difficult relegation fight, that you postpone your protests at the Ipswich game, both inside and outside the ground. Communicate with the club that you were going to hold mass demonstrations, but in light of the on-field problems they are being held back until the New Year. If, in your views, that the club have not shown a willingness to address the issues raised in the Fans Forum, start up your protests after Christmas.
My emotions for the club haven’t changed over the past 50 years, if anything, since I have retired and can spend more time following CAFC, they have strengthened. I am continually surprised on reading CL how many fans comment on, “ I want my Charlton back” and “ I’ve fallen out of love with my team”. Well the club is still here and it needs all the support it can get at the present moment.
So, finally, AM I THE ONLY ONE?
good post - i was up for protest - i have now protested and since then we have won well and signed a new striker - i am happy to support again - if we start hurtling towards league 1 again and don't continue to add proven quality to the squad, i will be back in protest mode again. I like the objectives and don't doubt them - i was protesting to change their methods, not their aims. Others, i'm not sure about - some r narked at being held at arms length, some are a bit dim and get whipped up in hysteria but the vast majority r just scared of league 1 again - im well in that vast majority - keep repeating the same mistakes and skirting with league 1 and i will be for all out change - this is their last chance to show they have learnt what is needed and i will support them to do that.
I wish my wife was as easily pleased as you !
If there was a queue of better alternatives lining up to pump in millions i may be a bit more choosy. Given that in the last 10 years, these are the only lot that have taken it on (apart from the spivs and this lot are far less dangerous than them) then i think we owe them another chance to get it right. Whether KM is up to it or not is irrelevant - she's just a mouthpiece - rd and rm r running this show.
You think Richard Murray is running the show? Really? I doubt if even 2% think that and it wouldn't include Murray himself.
If there was a queue of better alternatives lining up to pump in millions i may be a bit more choosy. Given that in the last 10 years, these are the only lot that have taken it on (apart from the spivs and this lot are far less dangerous than them) then i think we owe them another chance to get it right. Whether KM is up to it or not is irrelevant - she's just a mouthpiece - rd and rm r running this show.
Whilst I am not calling for RD to go, let's look at the positives and negatives.
On the positive side we are unlikely to go bust.
On the negative side the list is extensive. Oh, and there's the huge debts that RD is building up for the club.
Have a feeling results will now pick up and if you have another survey just after xmas i reckon thier would be a massive swing for Roland and Katrien. Football supporters are really fickle and thats a fact.
Just to add reading through this thread the anti Roland brigade have toned down a touch , just a touch but could expolde again if we lose the next two.
AA I get the impression from your post that you are saying we need to allow management to runs things and what good will protesting do. I understand this stance, but where we part company is your acceptance of the club's message that things are pretty much OK and running according to plan. To many of us, that is insulting our intelligence.
Like you I don't think protests should be about personality, nationality or anything else apart from incompetence.
I sense your saying what's so different about today. We have been crap many seasons, crap funding, crap coaches, crap transfers, crap players. For me it's different because today we have better funding, an opportunity to appoint good coaches, a better than average quality squad, but we are crap.
Why are we crap if it's not a lack of competent management of resources. So let's not get hung up on arguing about how, why and what needs to change, let's all agree that our resources need to be managed better, that is what I am protesting FOR. Whether that comes about by ownership change, change of CEO or a change of management structure I'm agnostic.
If we protest for recognition that management needs to get its act together, without trying to find a consensus on how that's achieved, I think you would find more than 2% would be behind it.
The only reason i can see for anyone challenging any need to protest is acceptance, against all the evidence, that our owner and our CEO are in control, a bizarre view.
As the rain pours down in Manchester, I thought I would try to get my views on the current crisis across, as I am one of the 98% silent majority.
I have been following Charlton since 1965 and after retiring I have been a season ticket holder and a Valley Gold member. I have been to every home and away fixture this season ( bar MK Dons).
I fully support Roland Duchatelet’s aims of: 1. Creating a team that is competitive in the Championship with Premiere League ambitions. 2. Develop and improve the infrastructure of The Valley. 3. Improve the training facilities and Academy setup at Sparrows Lane, in order to provide our own players of the future.
I am pretty sure that most fans would support these objectives, so the arguments are around how they are to be achieved and how fast they happen.
Having been through the traumatic times of Hulyer and Fryer and the gradual decline of The Valley under Jimenez and Slater I want to see a steady evolution of the club, with a realistic budget that does not put the club in financial jeopardy in the future.
Duchatelet has certainly not got everything right. Player recruitment has obviously been a concern, especially last season and to a lesser extent this, with some signings not up to the standard or especially the rigour of the Championship. The important point is that he and his management team are learning from their mistakes, and the quality of the present squad shows a steady improvement. (although results might harm this argument!)
The second issue that some fans have complained about is the rapid turnover of managers/coaches. I personally supported all the changes except not giving Jose Riga a chance at the start of last season after his performance in the relegation battle. I supported the sacking of Guy Luzon because towards the end of his tenure he was playing players in unfamiliar positions and his rigid adherence to 4-4-2 left us undermanned in midfield. He seemed to lack tactical understanding that would have enabled us to scrape some points during our injury crisis.
The third issue is the CEO, Katrien Meire, she appears to have upset a great deal of people and has been accused of lying to fans, incompetent management of the club’s staff and mismanaging several issues such as the season ticket sales and the reorganisation of the lounges. I really don’t have enough insite or knowledge into what is going on inside the club, day to day to have a firm view on whether she has been beneficial to the development of CAFC. At the moment I’m on the fence, but I am willing at this stage to give her the benefit of the doubt until the end of this season. Changing CEO’s mid season may cause more problems than it solves.
Onto the protests, I have been disappointed at the crude sledging of RD and KM on here. What has it got to do with whether they come from Belgium or that KM is a woman? You are either successful at running a football club or not. The xenophobic and misogynistic rants that have appeared on Charlton Life are unacceptable. If you want to campaign for a change use arguments containing factual information not swearing rants, and empty talk. It concerns me that CL gets hijacked by some people for their own agenda, a bit like Militant infiltrating the Labour Party in the ‘80’s. Perhaps we have some UKIP/BNP/EDL members spouting their abhorrent rhetoric on here.
So, as a member of the 98% silent majority what am I going to do next? 1. I will not support the protest outside the West Stand against Ipswich. 2. I will not be supporting the Black and White campaign. 3. I will get behind the team fully during this relegation battle, I really don’t want to be in Div 1 next season. 4. I will continue to monitor the decision making prowess of our owners/CEO to try and get a balanced view as to their progress and intentions of CAFC.
What should the 2% vocal majority do? Well that is a thing that I should leave up to you. I fully support your right to protest, and make your complaints heard. What I’m not picking up is what you want to change other than wanting Duchatelet and Meire to leave the club with immediate effect.
My own opinion is while the club is in this difficult relegation fight, that you postpone your protests at the Ipswich game, both inside and outside the ground. Communicate with the club that you were going to hold mass demonstrations, but in light of the on-field problems they are being held back until the New Year. If, in your views, that the club have not shown a willingness to address the issues raised in the Fans Forum, start up your protests after Christmas.
My emotions for the club haven’t changed over the past 50 years, if anything, since I have retired and can spend more time following CAFC, they have strengthened. I am continually surprised on reading CL how many fans comment on, “ I want my Charlton back” and “ I’ve fallen out of love with my team”. Well the club is still here and it needs all the support it can get at the present moment.
So, finally, AM I THE ONLY ONE?
An excellent post. You may be interested in my posts regarding KM'' presentation on the other thread?
Where are you getting the "98% silent majority" figure from?
As for Roland's 3 aims, they're meaningless without a feasible pan to achieve them. In relation to point 3, he's not developing the academy to provide our own players, he's developing it so he can sell the players we develop (see Joe Gomez).
I could go on, but there's about a thousand pages on this message board where various posters have explained in painstaking detail what a negative force RD and KM are.
Pretty obvious really - poor turnout at the protest which would have been worse if the weather had been poor. On another thread 8.1k views 166 comments a lot by the same people including myself so probably 43 different posters - well you do the sums.
As the rain pours down in Manchester, I thought I would try to get my views on the current crisis across, as I am one of the 98% silent majority.
I have been following Charlton since 1965 and after retiring I have been a season ticket holder and a Valley Gold member. I have been to every home and away fixture this season ( bar MK Dons).
I fully support Roland Duchatelet’s aims of: 1. Creating a team that is competitive in the Championship with Premiere League ambitions. 2. Develop and improve the infrastructure of The Valley. 3. Improve the training facilities and Academy setup at Sparrows Lane, in order to provide our own players of the future.
I am pretty sure that most fans would support these objectives, so the arguments are around how they are to be achieved and how fast they happen.
Having been through the traumatic times of Hulyer and Fryer and the gradual decline of The Valley under Jimenez and Slater I want to see a steady evolution of the club, with a realistic budget that does not put the club in financial jeopardy in the future.
Duchatelet has certainly not got everything right. Player recruitment has obviously been a concern, especially last season and to a lesser extent this, with some signings not up to the standard or especially the rigour of the Championship. The important point is that he and his management team are learning from their mistakes, and the quality of the present squad shows a steady improvement. (although results might harm this argument!)
The second issue that some fans have complained about is the rapid turnover of managers/coaches. I personally supported all the changes except not giving Jose Riga a chance at the start of last season after his performance in the relegation battle. I supported the sacking of Guy Luzon because towards the end of his tenure he was playing players in unfamiliar positions and his rigid adherence to 4-4-2 left us undermanned in midfield. He seemed to lack tactical understanding that would have enabled us to scrape some points during our injury crisis.
The third issue is the CEO, Katrien Meire, she appears to have upset a great deal of people and has been accused of lying to fans, incompetent management of the club’s staff and mismanaging several issues such as the season ticket sales and the reorganisation of the lounges. I really don’t have enough insite or knowledge into what is going on inside the club, day to day to have a firm view on whether she has been beneficial to the development of CAFC. At the moment I’m on the fence, but I am willing at this stage to give her the benefit of the doubt until the end of this season. Changing CEO’s mid season may cause more problems than it solves.
Onto the protests, I have been disappointed at the crude sledging of RD and KM on here. What has it got to do with whether they come from Belgium or that KM is a woman? You are either successful at running a football club or not. The xenophobic and misogynistic rants that have appeared on Charlton Life are unacceptable. If you want to campaign for a change use arguments containing factual information not swearing rants, and empty talk. It concerns me that CL gets hijacked by some people for their own agenda, a bit like Militant infiltrating the Labour Party in the ‘80’s. Perhaps we have some UKIP/BNP/EDL members spouting their abhorrent rhetoric on here.
So, as a member of the 98% silent majority what am I going to do next? 1. I will not support the protest outside the West Stand against Ipswich. 2. I will not be supporting the Black and White campaign. 3. I will get behind the team fully during this relegation battle, I really don’t want to be in Div 1 next season. 4. I will continue to monitor the decision making prowess of our owners/CEO to try and get a balanced view as to their progress and intentions of CAFC.
What should the 2% vocal majority do? Well that is a thing that I should leave up to you. I fully support your right to protest, and make your complaints heard. What I’m not picking up is what you want to change other than wanting Duchatelet and Meire to leave the club with immediate effect.
My own opinion is while the club is in this difficult relegation fight, that you postpone your protests at the Ipswich game, both inside and outside the ground. Communicate with the club that you were going to hold mass demonstrations, but in light of the on-field problems they are being held back until the New Year. If, in your views, that the club have not shown a willingness to address the issues raised in the Fans Forum, start up your protests after Christmas.
My emotions for the club haven’t changed over the past 50 years, if anything, since I have retired and can spend more time following CAFC, they have strengthened. I am continually surprised on reading CL how many fans comment on, “ I want my Charlton back” and “ I’ve fallen out of love with my team”. Well the club is still here and it needs all the support it can get at the present moment.
So, finally, AM I THE ONLY ONE?
An excellent post. You may be interested in my posts regarding KM'' presentation on the other thread?
By the way you are not the only one and judging by conversations I have had with other supporters we are in the majority.
Roland's strategy of tightly managing the player budget may have been a winner once, but it was doomed to fail the second that the greedy and impetuous clubs in our league voted to scrap Financial Fair Play. With things as they are, we are struggling to tread water let alone swim. But there is little evidence that RD or those managing the club understand our predicament. Instead every problem is seen as a temporary coaching blip that can be fixed with another spin of Roly's roulette wheel.
Roland's strategy of owning multiple clubs and shuffling players around them has not been successful. Sure, Charlton haven't been the biggest losers in his solo game of Beggar My Neighbour. That honour arguably goes to Standard Liege, but the poor fit of this seemingly random rag tag bunch of clubs has meant that no matter what the merits of the idea are, its application is bound to fail. Unless that is, that it's all some elaborate scam to somehow siphon off the value of players and spirit it into someone's pocket (I'm not accusing RD of this at all, merely speculating why an otherwise sane man would have collected such a disparate and ill-fitting set of outfits).
Roland's bunker mentality to our club leaves us with weak leadership; our CEO seemingly not knowing what's going to happen from one day to the next. Decision making has been shocking in terms of staff management, player recruitment, stadium management, and fan engagement. We need an owner who is both visible and who has regular discussions with those charged with managing the club. His visibility is so low that if they made a film of this shambles, Claude Rains would be the ideal actor to play RD (well, if he wasn't dead he would).
Roland Duchatelet may be a very nice man. He may have invested millions in our club, and he may have plans to invest more. But he is not, and I don't think he ever will be, a Charlton person. We need someone who can take a firmer grip of the non-footballing side of the business (or at least someone who appoints a credible, competent and empowered CEO), someone who can unite the club and the fans into working together and someone who is prepared to delegate the football side of the business to genuine football people. Roland is not that person and for that reason I don't want him to stay.
AA. I agree with most of what you have said. However, the major area where you and I differ is I think it is healthy to show disagreement if you don't agree with the way things are being done. Obviously there are ways to do this, and being belligerent isn't one of them, but done correctly it is a positive way of communication. This is true in any walk of life. And that is what all the protests are about as far as I'm concerned and bring them on I say. As long as they are done in the right way it will show RD that we care about our club and hopefully it will make him realize that we, as a group, can have a positive impact on the future of Charlton Athletic. It will also show him that we won't just sit back and accept it. We do have a right to speak up. And if things continue as they are which, lets face it, are all about the results on the field, then we have a right to continue to voice our discontent.
The vision that Roland has for our Club is flawed. Last season we struggled towards the bottom of the table until we arrested the slide. This season we are fighting against relegation. With a very real possibility that we will get relegated. He left us in the Summer with a size 8 squad that couldn't cope with injuries. He is spending money on the Academy because it is a large revenue stream for him. Produce one or two top English youngsters every two to three years and sell them on to a bigger club. How is this a benefit to Charlton, because he will not be investing the proceeds in the First team.
I think our situation can be remedied fairly easily. Get in an experienced CEO, beef up our scouting department and appoint an experienced Championship Manager, let him manage without interference, and stick with him. Finally invest in the squad in the Summer and I think you will see positive results.
This is a good discussion and, as one of those calling for change, it is certainly useful to read the other perspective, and acknowledge that view exists.
The only way we will know with any reasonable degree of certainty what proportion of active supporters and the wider fan-base fall into each camp is to conduct a widespread consultation process, and this is something I have been advocating the Trust could/should lead. Before that, all talk about vocal minorities and silent majorities is so much rhetoric. The facts are that a significant number of fans, and certainly much, much more than 2%, are angry and upset with the club leadership. It is also a fact that a lot more have become apathetic, not renewing or using their season tickets. I'm sure there are also many others, like AA and Waldo, who feel more positive, but even if the combined figure of angry/apathetic fans was (and I'm guessing, like everyone else) as low as 25%, that would still be 1 in 4 of "customers" being lost - sooner or later. That is not a sustainable position, and one that should be thoroughly alarming to the Board.
As for the question about do we want Roland and KM out, or just for them to change their approach, I suspect that the vast majority would say "change", simply because Roland is a rich guy and there is consequently no real prospect of insolvency while he owns us. I would prefer change too - but I just cannot see any prospect of it. Roland is pursuing an idealogical approach, not overly influenced by short term demands or business logic. KM has had several opportunities to be more flexible but has demonstrated a high degree of intransigence - most recently at the supporters group meeting. Putting Target 20k back on the table and talking about a more strategic communication with supporters sounds a bit hollow when the setting and context in which those comments were made were heavily stage managed to reduce risk rather than to truly engage with people who should be treated like allies.
As I've said before the FFP was never going to go ahead in the fashion they proposed, so Roland either seriously didn't look into the plans (and advice from people who know the league and the fact that teams were voting) or he simply didn't care that much and it would have only been a bonus had it gone ahead.
I totally see what he's trying to do, have a dream in football and prove everyone wrong doing it - own businesses that spin a profit despite every man and his dog saying he won't be able to do it. The larger that business empire grows, the more he grows in power.
But it's un-logical, and so flawed that I'm sure if you gave a kid a game of Football Manager and asked him for the same goals while trying to survive short-term and success long-term he'll probably tell you he needs money for the players he wants, you can't wait around to unearth a gem from the academy, play him for a bit and sell him while not affecting the form of the first team. It all has to be a great balance in which this method lacks any balance at all; and the fact they brag about how much they spend is a sign of their sheer ignorance towards the lack of success they are having. They've undersold, overpaid, wasted millions 'guessing' at players due to lack of scouting prowess; I could go on.
His short-term goal is obviously to keep us up, we are struggling at it despite being over-budget, now let's say we go down which there is a fair possibility we will. This budget will go down, educated guess because the incoming costs are going to fall heavily due to TV money, attendances etc. They will want to spend a lot less on wages, they will also make a lot less profit on purchases because we are playing League One, which isn't as much of a market as the Championship so costs are, of course, lower. So we'd be in L1 with a lower budget, and the aim to sell any academy 'assets'.. We'll be the second CAFC in League One (if Crewe were to survive) with the same factory-esque way of running the Club. How do we get the Club 'greats' we once had to play with us for so long? JJ may be the last of them.... You know, them players you can get your son/daughter to attend the match pretty much solely for? Not down to talent, but down to the same reason we follow a team, to share that winning feeling together, and it means as much to them as it does to you.
Also, I think any one saying they want Roland to stay, because he has money and can adjust his plan and we can win him over.. I have to say are deluded. He's an astute businessman with a wicked dream to run a Football Club at a profit/break-even with profitable assets flying about and options to build upon the non footballing side (which I'm sure profit can be made from), due to the power he'd have. Now he won't wake up and decide Charlton Fans are crying for my help, I will invest to get them promoted, he won't chuck his entire plan out the window, it's a do or die plan; even if it's failing he'll keep at it. He would invest at most if his advisors tell him there's a serious chance we could get promoted but there is no real chance of that, we would need to be top 2 come Christmas, at an educated guess. You can't build a mansion with a couple of men and a couple of bricks, then every so often sell some bits along the way, one step forward one step back type approach won't work when everyone else in the league is throwing cash and have the groundwork already in place.
I can see why people want RD to stay, but it's a blinkered view of it all; he tries to sell you the dream but he can't provide that dream in my opinion, the dream is Premier League with big attendances, a perfect balance spreadsheet, great home-grown talents and scouting world-wide with essentially no budget restrictions. But in reality we are a lot closer to a nightmeire than we are Roland's deluded dream. I have my personal predictions with how things will go under the ownership of RD, and the first 2 years seems to fit the bill; infiltrate every spot with people that are part of his military-esque 'dream', while lowering the expenses at the same time. I think survival in Championship is his goal in the footballing sense, and will accept it year after year, but a drop down to L1 wouldn't be the be all end all. Now for someone who brags about expenditure and are seemingly proud of what they are doing, they have done nothing in their team in charge bar lose a lot of support, increase our running losses and decrease our squad value (by selling the best sellable assets already).
It is what it is, and totally agree with Davo55 above, the Target 20k is back on stage and KM is backing it as risk reduction, it makes them look like they really care for the support of their club, but it's to stop the on-going decrease in support and 20k is a large pool to not displease everyone with certain acts. Hence why I'm not backing it, I don't want to help something I don't agree with and want away from my club, personally.
As the rain pours down in Manchester, I thought I would try to get my views on the current crisis across, as I am one of the 98% silent majority.
I have been following Charlton since 1965 and after retiring I have been a season ticket holder and a Valley Gold member. I have been to every home and away fixture this season ( bar MK Dons).
I fully support Roland Duchatelet’s aims of: 1. Creating a team that is competitive in the Championship with Premiere League ambitions. 2. Develop and improve the infrastructure of The Valley. 3. Improve the training facilities and Academy setup at Sparrows Lane, in order to provide our own players of the future.
I am pretty sure that most fans would support these objectives, so the arguments are around how they are to be achieved and how fast they happen.
Having been through the traumatic times of Hulyer and Fryer and the gradual decline of The Valley under Jimenez and Slater I want to see a steady evolution of the club, with a realistic budget that does not put the club in financial jeopardy in the future.
Duchatelet has certainly not got everything right. Player recruitment has obviously been a concern, especially last season and to a lesser extent this, with some signings not up to the standard or especially the rigour of the Championship. The important point is that he and his management team are learning from their mistakes, and the quality of the present squad shows a steady improvement. (although results might harm this argument!)
The second issue that some fans have complained about is the rapid turnover of managers/coaches. I personally supported all the changes except not giving Jose Riga a chance at the start of last season after his performance in the relegation battle. I supported the sacking of Guy Luzon because towards the end of his tenure he was playing players in unfamiliar positions and his rigid adherence to 4-4-2 left us undermanned in midfield. He seemed to lack tactical understanding that would have enabled us to scrape some points during our injury crisis.
The third issue is the CEO, Katrien Meire, she appears to have upset a great deal of people and has been accused of lying to fans, incompetent management of the club’s staff and mismanaging several issues such as the season ticket sales and the reorganisation of the lounges. I really don’t have enough insite or knowledge into what is going on inside the club, day to day to have a firm view on whether she has been beneficial to the development of CAFC. At the moment I’m on the fence, but I am willing at this stage to give her the benefit of the doubt until the end of this season. Changing CEO’s mid season may cause more problems than it solves.
Onto the protests, I have been disappointed at the crude sledging of RD and KM on here. What has it got to do with whether they come from Belgium or that KM is a woman? You are either successful at running a football club or not. The xenophobic and misogynistic rants that have appeared on Charlton Life are unacceptable. If you want to campaign for a change use arguments containing factual information not swearing rants, and empty talk. It concerns me that CL gets hijacked by some people for their own agenda, a bit like Militant infiltrating the Labour Party in the ‘80’s. Perhaps we have some UKIP/BNP/EDL members spouting their abhorrent rhetoric on here.
So, as a member of the 98% silent majority what am I going to do next? 1. I will not support the protest outside the West Stand against Ipswich. 2. I will not be supporting the Black and White campaign. 3. I will get behind the team fully during this relegation battle, I really don’t want to be in Div 1 next season. 4. I will continue to monitor the decision making prowess of our owners/CEO to try and get a balanced view as to their progress and intentions of CAFC.
What should the 2% vocal majority do? Well that is a thing that I should leave up to you. I fully support your right to protest, and make your complaints heard. What I’m not picking up is what you want to change other than wanting Duchatelet and Meire to leave the club with immediate effect.
My own opinion is while the club is in this difficult relegation fight, that you postpone your protests at the Ipswich game, both inside and outside the ground. Communicate with the club that you were going to hold mass demonstrations, but in light of the on-field problems they are being held back until the New Year. If, in your views, that the club have not shown a willingness to address the issues raised in the Fans Forum, start up your protests after Christmas.
My emotions for the club haven’t changed over the past 50 years, if anything, since I have retired and can spend more time following CAFC, they have strengthened. I am continually surprised on reading CL how many fans comment on, “ I want my Charlton back” and “ I’ve fallen out of love with my team”. Well the club is still here and it needs all the support it can get at the present moment.
So, finally, AM I THE ONLY ONE?
good post - i was up for protest - i have now protested and since then we have won well and signed a new striker - i am happy to support again - if we start hurtling towards league 1 again and don't continue to add proven quality to the squad, i will be back in protest mode again. I like the objectives and don't doubt them - i was protesting to change their methods, not their aims. Others, i'm not sure about - some r narked at being held at arms length, some are a bit dim and get whipped up in hysteria but the vast majority r just scared of league 1 again - im well in that vast majority - keep repeating the same mistakes and skirting with league 1 and i will be for all out change - this is their last chance to show they have learnt what is needed and i will support them to do that.
I wish my wife was as easily pleased as you !
If there was a queue of better alternatives lining up to pump in millions i may be a bit more choosy. Given that in the last 10 years, these are the only lot that have taken it on (apart from the spivs and this lot are far less dangerous than them) then i think we owe them another chance to get it right. Whether KM is up to it or not is irrelevant - she's just a mouthpiece - rd and rm r running this show.
You think Richard Murray is running the show? Really? I doubt if even 2% think that and it wouldn't include Murray himself.
none of us really know though do we? rd in charge - rm as consultant
As the rain pours down in Manchester, I thought I would try to get my views on the current crisis across, as I am one of the 98% silent majority.
I have been following Charlton since 1965 and after retiring I have been a season ticket holder and a Valley Gold member. I have been to every home and away fixture this season ( bar MK Dons).
I fully support Roland Duchatelet’s aims of: 1. Creating a team that is competitive in the Championship with Premiere League ambitions. 2. Develop and improve the infrastructure of The Valley. 3. Improve the training facilities and Academy setup at Sparrows Lane, in order to provide our own players of the future.
I am pretty sure that most fans would support these objectives, so the arguments are around how they are to be achieved and how fast they happen.
Having been through the traumatic times of Hulyer and Fryer and the gradual decline of The Valley under Jimenez and Slater I want to see a steady evolution of the club, with a realistic budget that does not put the club in financial jeopardy in the future.
Duchatelet has certainly not got everything right. Player recruitment has obviously been a concern, especially last season and to a lesser extent this, with some signings not up to the standard or especially the rigour of the Championship. The important point is that he and his management team are learning from their mistakes, and the quality of the present squad shows a steady improvement. (although results might harm this argument!)
The second issue that some fans have complained about is the rapid turnover of managers/coaches. I personally supported all the changes except not giving Jose Riga a chance at the start of last season after his performance in the relegation battle. I supported the sacking of Guy Luzon because towards the end of his tenure he was playing players in unfamiliar positions and his rigid adherence to 4-4-2 left us undermanned in midfield. He seemed to lack tactical understanding that would have enabled us to scrape some points during our injury crisis.
The third issue is the CEO, Katrien Meire, she appears to have upset a great deal of people and has been accused of lying to fans, incompetent management of the club’s staff and mismanaging several issues such as the season ticket sales and the reorganisation of the lounges. I really don’t have enough insite or knowledge into what is going on inside the club, day to day to have a firm view on whether she has been beneficial to the development of CAFC. At the moment I’m on the fence, but I am willing at this stage to give her the benefit of the doubt until the end of this season. Changing CEO’s mid season may cause more problems than it solves.
Onto the protests, I have been disappointed at the crude sledging of RD and KM on here. What has it got to do with whether they come from Belgium or that KM is a woman? You are either successful at running a football club or not. The xenophobic and misogynistic rants that have appeared on Charlton Life are unacceptable. If you want to campaign for a change use arguments containing factual information not swearing rants, and empty talk. It concerns me that CL gets hijacked by some people for their own agenda, a bit like Militant infiltrating the Labour Party in the ‘80’s. Perhaps we have some UKIP/BNP/EDL members spouting their abhorrent rhetoric on here.
So, as a member of the 98% silent majority what am I going to do next? 1. I will not support the protest outside the West Stand against Ipswich. 2. I will not be supporting the Black and White campaign. 3. I will get behind the team fully during this relegation battle, I really don’t want to be in Div 1 next season. 4. I will continue to monitor the decision making prowess of our owners/CEO to try and get a balanced view as to their progress and intentions of CAFC.
What should the 2% vocal majority do? Well that is a thing that I should leave up to you. I fully support your right to protest, and make your complaints heard. What I’m not picking up is what you want to change other than wanting Duchatelet and Meire to leave the club with immediate effect.
My own opinion is while the club is in this difficult relegation fight, that you postpone your protests at the Ipswich game, both inside and outside the ground. Communicate with the club that you were going to hold mass demonstrations, but in light of the on-field problems they are being held back until the New Year. If, in your views, that the club have not shown a willingness to address the issues raised in the Fans Forum, start up your protests after Christmas.
My emotions for the club haven’t changed over the past 50 years, if anything, since I have retired and can spend more time following CAFC, they have strengthened. I am continually surprised on reading CL how many fans comment on, “ I want my Charlton back” and “ I’ve fallen out of love with my team”. Well the club is still here and it needs all the support it can get at the present moment.
So, finally, AM I THE ONLY ONE?
good post - i was up for protest - i have now protested and since then we have won well and signed a new striker - i am happy to support again - if we start hurtling towards league 1 again and don't continue to add proven quality to the squad, i will be back in protest mode again. I like the objectives and don't doubt them - i was protesting to change their methods, not their aims. Others, i'm not sure about - some r narked at being held at arms length, some are a bit dim and get whipped up in hysteria but the vast majority r just scared of league 1 again - im well in that vast majority - keep repeating the same mistakes and skirting with league 1 and i will be for all out change - this is their last chance to show they have learnt what is needed and i will support them to do that.
I wish my wife was as easily pleased as you !
If there was a queue of better alternatives lining up to pump in millions i may be a bit more choosy. Given that in the last 10 years, these are the only lot that have taken it on (apart from the spivs and this lot are far less dangerous than them) then i think we owe them another chance to get it right. Whether KM is up to it or not is irrelevant - she's just a mouthpiece - rd and rm r running this show.
You think Richard Murray is running the show? Really? I doubt if even 2% think that and it wouldn't include Murray himself.
none of us really know though do we? rd in charge - rm as consultant
You said: "Whether KM is up to it or not is irrelevant - she's just a mouthpiece - rd and rm r running this show."
The idea that Murray exerts more influence than the chief executive, who is the line manager for all the non-football staff and apparently the head coach, given she is very obviously Duchatelet's proxy, is far-fetched to the point of being ridiculous. Perhaps Prague would like to comment, based on his conversations with RM.
Comments
So much of the discord could have been avoided if management had met with us civilly from the outset. We don't require explanations to the Nth degree on everything. But it would feel so much better if our thoughts, various though they are, were listened to, and once they'd been condensed into an understanding, acted upon where things were valid and achievable.
CAFC has succeeded in recent times due, largely, to stability of management - both in terms of ownership and football coaching / recruitment. Players felt valued (for the most part) and fans were confident that their voice was not only heard, but had a tangible input into how things proceeded. How sad that much of this has been lost in so short a time.
If RD is to continue as owner, and KM as CEO, they would do well to show a willingness to engage meaningfully with the supporters. This would surely be to the benefit of both parties. If they won't, I fear that RD's tenure will remain malign and detrimental to the future of Charlton Athletic.
Even though I don't fully agree with what you say, it's good to see this argument, your trying to be realistically positive, sort of refreshing.
If we could at one point be really financially healthy and self sufficient, then that's fantastic. everyone's a winner.
Money and investment aside....I don't like the way the club is being run and altered, trying to be tailored for people that probably didn't know charlton existed 3 years ago. They just don't get it and are losing existing fans interest which is a heartbreaker.
The Belgian raciest chanting or whatever it is, the feeling about them as Belgians, even though perhaps wrong, it's probably just linked and related to the fact that they are foreign investors and don't know the taste of the club so are narrow minded and think it's ok doing embarrassing gimmicks. Certain extremely lame gimmicks won't work for people, just because Katrien thinks they are good ideas. The score on the pitch video advert, on reflection was just so inaccurate, careless, risky and arrogant thinking.
His business model for charlton is not a set of bad ideas but they are quite boring for football fans to want to buy into. Improving the youth academy is great and if it helps improve performances on the pitch from home grown talent or gets us few bob on decent player sales then it's going in the right understandable direction for a more secure long term future.
My opinion of Meire has changed over last month or so...I thought people were just digging her out when she was genuine and hard working, the puppet just doing job she's paid to do and sticking by it, but that's far from the truth, she is a problem for the club and I'm afraid to say I think she will be at charlton for a worryingly long time.
The sale of YK and the bizarre free transfer of Michael Morrison were obvious mistakes. The failure of the network in terms of strengthening the squad combined with an incredible merry-go-round of managers particularly needs to be learned from.
Hopefully, the signing of Vaz Te is a step in the right direction.
As you say, most Addicks can get behind the objectives. On the face of it they appear sensible and you would hope that anyone owning a football club would want to get the right infrastructure in place to enable the club to move forward. Unfortunately they are yet to show that they know how to achieve those goals. For me the time scale is less important than being able to see where we are going. If we were consistently improving on a season by season basis, I'm sure many fans would be content. That is not the case however.
Meire tells us that the spend on player wages is up 40%, but are we seeing that spend translated into results on the pitch? Clearly we are not. In fact, despite Duchatelet ploughing his millions into the club, the on the field situation is actually unchanged. As you rightly say there are issues on the recruitment side, both players and managers have been recruited that clearly are not good enough. I accept that every club buys a few players that are not up to the job, but can we be sure that the Belgian, Hungarian and Spanish scouts that were mentioned at the recent meeting all have the relevant experience and knowledge to judge what players are good enough for our division? They talk about £9m spent on players, but how much of that was on players that flopped and had to be loaned to third rate clubs around the globe because 'there isn't a market for them'. In other words, they are so poor, they cannot command even the smallest of transfer fees.
The recruitment of managers is a completely different story. It would appear that the owner believes that finding a manager with relevant experience is secondary to whether he already has a relationship with him. So far Duchatelet has appointed four managers and despite what Katrien Meire says, they have not all proved to be the right decision, it's quite the contrary in fact.
Riga did a great job keeping us up but did so by refusing to use Duchatelet's poor loanees and it's speculated that due to that he put the block on any ambitions he had of getting the job permanently. Bob Peeters came in without a credible track record in management and despite a good start it became obvious that he was out of his depth. Then came Luzon, under-qualified, yet chosen above many other more experienced candidate and touted as a possible Alex Ferguson in the making. Now regardless of whether you think his sacking was the right decision, he should never have been appointed in the first place and his eventual sacking so early in the season proves that to be the case.
So now we have Karel. Yet another contact that has no track record to speak of and appears to only have the job because the owner 'trusts him'. Now forgive me here, but I can't quite get over the fact that an owner of a business would employ under qualified staff to run the most important aspects of it's operation. Afterall, with no product on the field, we have no product at all. Duchatelet is either stupid, excessively naive or completely clueless. I don't think that Duchatelet is any of those things, and his highly successful electronics business would be testament to that. So that only leaves me to conclude that he is a little bit mad or deluded, which doesn't give me a great deal of faith with his ability to be able to take us forward as a club.
In terms of Katrien Meire. Whilst I do not condone any abuse, sexist, xenophobic, or otherwise, she has presided over some of the worst decisions we have seen in recent times. Successive failures in manager appointments, player recruitment, operational catastrophes, poorly thought out fan initiatives and the driving of a wedge between many fans and the club, has showed her to be completely out of her depth. What exactly have we seen her do right during her tenure thus far? It's my personal view that the spin, lies, call it what you want, has gone too far and we are now in a situation where the trust between Meire and the fans may be beyond repair. The recent meeting seems to support that theory, as at no time did I get the impression that she even understood why the fans are so detached. It's not just about the aims of the club, it's all the other things that are talked about to death on these boards.
Regarding the protests, I firstly take exception to the reference with UKIP, the EDL and the BNP. I think it's completely uncalled for to try to label a number of concerned fans as neo-nazi types. Now whilst I wasn't there for the protest, I watched Matt Wright's video very closely, and from what I could see, the vast majority of the protesters were normal men, women and children who were concerned for the future of our club. I wholly accept that some of the remarks that were made were uncalled for, as are some of the opinions I read on CL and other social media outlets, but I've never thought of them to be anything more sinister than naive throwaway comments by passionate fans who have become angry at a new regime that are changing the very fabric of a club they've supported for, in some cases, decades.
I firmly believe that the vast majority of fans would get behind the club if they could demonstrate that they have the required skills to turn around this clubs fortunes. Whilst there are many calls for the owner to go, there are plenty more who feel that change could bring about a worse situation. Many of those who want the owner to go may change their minds if we start to see their 'plan' working out. If Duchatelet, Meire and Co. want the fans to back them, they've got to prove that they can meet the ambitions they purport to have for the club.
It's all very them well bragging about the money they've spent at the club, but we are yet to see the value they have added.
I would add that the protests would have a lot more traction if they resolved this fundamental question. People who don't support RD out - and the various CASTrust surveys this year haven't revealed a huge demand for it - are going to find it difficult to get behind protests where that is the aim.
Personally speaking, as a devil we know I think RD could be a lot lot worse and that's stopping me from demanding he sells up. It's not the objectives that are the problem, if they're genuine, but how he and his team are trying to achieve them. So to me the aim of any protest should be to secure commitment to changing the hows. The approach to recruiting managers is just one example, and the answer on the night was jaw dropping.
Also, how the context of the wages increase and how that includes to the wages of those that are loaned out such as Piotr Parzyszek for example.
Personally I think that an experienced CEO would be as good for RD as it would be for the club - KM is out of her depth and her antics have just widened the gap between fans and the owner. I think KM has amplified and added to RD's deficits.
On the positive side we are unlikely to go bust.
On the negative side the list is extensive. Oh, and there's the huge debts that RD is building up for the club.
Like you I don't think protests should be about personality, nationality or anything else apart from incompetence.
I sense your saying what's so different about today. We have been crap many seasons, crap funding, crap coaches, crap transfers, crap players. For me it's different because today we have better funding, an opportunity to appoint good coaches, a better than average quality squad, but we are crap.
Why are we crap if it's not a lack of competent management of resources. So let's not get hung up on arguing about how, why and what needs to change, let's all agree that our resources need to be managed better, that is what I am protesting FOR. Whether that comes about by ownership change, change of CEO or a change of management structure I'm agnostic.
If we protest for recognition that management needs to get its act together, without trying to find a consensus on how that's achieved, I think you would find more than 2% would be behind it.
The only reason i can see for anyone challenging any need to protest is acceptance, against all the evidence, that our owner and our CEO are in control, a bizarre view.
How can you group ukip with the BNP and the EDL ffs. 4 million people voted for ukip in the last GE.
Completely undermined your opening statement
Roland's strategy of owning multiple clubs and shuffling players around them has not been successful. Sure, Charlton haven't been the biggest losers in his solo game of Beggar My Neighbour. That honour arguably goes to Standard Liege, but the poor fit of this seemingly random rag tag bunch of clubs has meant that no matter what the merits of the idea are, its application is bound to fail. Unless that is, that it's all some elaborate scam to somehow siphon off the value of players and spirit it into someone's pocket (I'm not accusing RD of this at all, merely speculating why an otherwise sane man would have collected such a disparate and ill-fitting set of outfits).
Roland's bunker mentality to our club leaves us with weak leadership; our CEO seemingly not knowing what's going to happen from one day to the next. Decision making has been shocking in terms of staff management, player recruitment, stadium management, and fan engagement. We need an owner who is both visible and who has regular discussions with those charged with managing the club. His visibility is so low that if they made a film of this shambles, Claude Rains would be the ideal actor to play RD (well, if he wasn't dead he would).
Roland Duchatelet may be a very nice man. He may have invested millions in our club, and he may have plans to invest more. But he is not, and I don't think he ever will be, a Charlton person. We need someone who can take a firmer grip of the non-footballing side of the business (or at least someone who appoints a credible, competent and empowered CEO), someone who can unite the club and the fans into working together and someone who is prepared to delegate the football side of the business to genuine football people. Roland is not that person and for that reason I don't want him to stay.
I think our situation can be remedied fairly easily. Get in an experienced CEO, beef up our scouting department and appoint an experienced Championship Manager, let him manage without interference, and stick with him. Finally invest in the squad in the Summer and I think you will see positive results.
The only way we will know with any reasonable degree of certainty what proportion of active supporters and the wider fan-base fall into each camp is to conduct a widespread consultation process, and this is something I have been advocating the Trust could/should lead. Before that, all talk about vocal minorities and silent majorities is so much rhetoric. The facts are that a significant number of fans, and certainly much, much more than 2%, are angry and upset with the club leadership. It is also a fact that a lot more have become apathetic, not renewing or using their season tickets. I'm sure there are also many others, like AA and Waldo, who feel more positive, but even if the combined figure of angry/apathetic fans was (and I'm guessing, like everyone else) as low as 25%, that would still be 1 in 4 of "customers" being lost - sooner or later. That is not a sustainable position, and one that should be thoroughly alarming to the Board.
As for the question about do we want Roland and KM out, or just for them to change their approach, I suspect that the vast majority would say "change", simply because Roland is a rich guy and there is consequently no real prospect of insolvency while he owns us. I would prefer change too - but I just cannot see any prospect of it. Roland is pursuing an idealogical approach, not overly influenced by short term demands or business logic. KM has had several opportunities to be more flexible but has demonstrated a high degree of intransigence - most recently at the supporters group meeting. Putting Target 20k back on the table and talking about a more strategic communication with supporters sounds a bit hollow when the setting and context in which those comments were made were heavily stage managed to reduce risk rather than to truly engage with people who should be treated like allies.
I totally see what he's trying to do, have a dream in football and prove everyone wrong doing it - own businesses that spin a profit despite every man and his dog saying he won't be able to do it. The larger that business empire grows, the more he grows in power.
But it's un-logical, and so flawed that I'm sure if you gave a kid a game of Football Manager and asked him for the same goals while trying to survive short-term and success long-term he'll probably tell you he needs money for the players he wants, you can't wait around to unearth a gem from the academy, play him for a bit and sell him while not affecting the form of the first team. It all has to be a great balance in which this method lacks any balance at all; and the fact they brag about how much they spend is a sign of their sheer ignorance towards the lack of success they are having. They've undersold, overpaid, wasted millions 'guessing' at players due to lack of scouting prowess; I could go on.
His short-term goal is obviously to keep us up, we are struggling at it despite being over-budget, now let's say we go down which there is a fair possibility we will. This budget will go down, educated guess because the incoming costs are going to fall heavily due to TV money, attendances etc. They will want to spend a lot less on wages, they will also make a lot less profit on purchases because we are playing League One, which isn't as much of a market as the Championship so costs are, of course, lower. So we'd be in L1 with a lower budget, and the aim to sell any academy 'assets'.. We'll be the second CAFC in League One (if Crewe were to survive) with the same factory-esque way of running the Club. How do we get the Club 'greats' we once had to play with us for so long? JJ may be the last of them.... You know, them players you can get your son/daughter to attend the match pretty much solely for? Not down to talent, but down to the same reason we follow a team, to share that winning feeling together, and it means as much to them as it does to you.
Also, I think any one saying they want Roland to stay, because he has money and can adjust his plan and we can win him over.. I have to say are deluded. He's an astute businessman with a wicked dream to run a Football Club at a profit/break-even with profitable assets flying about and options to build upon the non footballing side (which I'm sure profit can be made from), due to the power he'd have. Now he won't wake up and decide Charlton Fans are crying for my help, I will invest to get them promoted, he won't chuck his entire plan out the window, it's a do or die plan; even if it's failing he'll keep at it. He would invest at most if his advisors tell him there's a serious chance we could get promoted but there is no real chance of that, we would need to be top 2 come Christmas, at an educated guess. You can't build a mansion with a couple of men and a couple of bricks, then every so often sell some bits along the way, one step forward one step back type approach won't work when everyone else in the league is throwing cash and have the groundwork already in place.
I can see why people want RD to stay, but it's a blinkered view of it all; he tries to sell you the dream but he can't provide that dream in my opinion, the dream is Premier League with big attendances, a perfect balance spreadsheet, great home-grown talents and scouting world-wide with essentially no budget restrictions. But in reality we are a lot closer to a nightmeire than we are Roland's deluded dream. I have my personal predictions with how things will go under the ownership of RD, and the first 2 years seems to fit the bill; infiltrate every spot with people that are part of his military-esque 'dream', while lowering the expenses at the same time. I think survival in Championship is his goal in the footballing sense, and will accept it year after year, but a drop down to L1 wouldn't be the be all end all. Now for someone who brags about expenditure and are seemingly proud of what they are doing, they have done nothing in their team in charge bar lose a lot of support, increase our running losses and decrease our squad value (by selling the best sellable assets already).
It is what it is, and totally agree with Davo55 above, the Target 20k is back on stage and KM is backing it as risk reduction, it makes them look like they really care for the support of their club, but it's to stop the on-going decrease in support and 20k is a large pool to not displease everyone with certain acts. Hence why I'm not backing it, I don't want to help something I don't agree with and want away from my club, personally.
The idea that Murray exerts more influence than the chief executive, who is the line manager for all the non-football staff and apparently the head coach, given she is very obviously Duchatelet's proxy, is far-fetched to the point of being ridiculous. Perhaps Prague would like to comment, based on his conversations with RM.