One of the real downsides of poor communication and public relations from a business, is that people very quickly become suspicious and mistrustful of everything they do (or plan to do. Or don't plan to do). Rightly or wrongly.
I wouldn't rule this out as a first step. Planners can get away with anything these days, the old rule book has been torn up and basically in its place is a developers free for all. The priority is for housing and there is seemingly nothing that we can do about it.
I doubt if you would get a bigger retail space in the former Corner Flag, which in any case is leased out to the community trust, will probably be yielding a rent and is likely to have been refurbished with public money, all of which could be obstacles.
I suspect the Belgians would like to build over the space currently used as a secondary vehicle entrance on matchdays to create a continuous residential development with the existing Floyd Road housing. That makes more planning sense to me.
However, see also the council's planning conditions on the lapsed east stand scheme which were vehemently against third party residential use and fiercely contested by the club at the time. Remind me who was council leader then?
Personally, I am against selling off bits of The Valley with no long-term strategic plan to make the best use of the site for football. The land sold on Valley Grove would have yielded a much bigger return as parking over time and provided more sensible access. The Lansdowne Mews land sold would add massively to the cost of any further stadium development in that area.
The problem with retail is that it would probably struggle to justify a non-matchday standalone operation, especially to someone daft enough to close the ticket office in midweek, so you could easily end up with mail order run from the ticket office and matchday souvenir stalls, all of which of course would meet the Belgians' number one objective of cost cutting.
It does make sense to combine the retail and ticketing operation, which is why it was tried before, but the layout of the stadium doesn't make this easy. Having the main retail presence at the O2 (or Bexleyheath) is a complete non-starter.
I doubt if you would get a bigger retail space in the former Corner Flag, which in any case is leased out to the community trust, will probably be yielding a rent and is likely to have been refurbished with public money, all of which could be obstacles.
I suspect the Belgians would like to build over the space currently used as a secondary vehicle entrance to create a continuous residential development with the existing Floyd Road housing.
Personally, I am against selling off bits of The Valley with no long-term strategic plan t make the best use of the site. The land sold on Valley Grove would have yielded a much bigger return as parking over time and provided more sensible access. The Lansdowne Mews land sold would add massively to the cost of any further stadium development in that area.
The problem with retail is that it would struggle to justify a non-matchday operation, especially to someone daft enough to close the ticket office in midweek, so you could easily end up with mail order run from the ticket office and matchday souvenir stalls, all of which of course would meet the Belgians' number one objective of cost cutting.
It does make sense to combine the retail and ticketing operation, which is why it was tried before, but the layout of the stadium doesn't make this easy. Having the main retail presence at the O2 (or Bexleyheath) is a complete non-starter.
All of which fits with the gossip I was hearing, albeit third hand.
It would also fit in with Roland's willingness to splash out on Cap Ex projects but penny pinch on operations
It would also fit in with the "do things in isolation and without thinking through the consequences" management style.
An ambitious club with clear, long term plans to improve the facilities and "match day experience" would be looking at the whole of the West Stand/car park/shop location and looking to see how to maximise income and value of the club.
They wouldn't be looking to reduce the retail offering to stalls but KM has nothing learn from fans, she's told us that.
Building a large scales extension on the West Stand to create a better retail space, more offices, more lounges and better dressing rooms would be expensive and problematic but would be a long term solution to a number of issues.
On a side note if the subs benches are too small for the premier league guidelines (and I'm not sure where that comes from) then now is the time to do it ie when the gates are low and you can re-locate the seat holders to vacant seats. But please tell the season ticket holders first and offer them some compensation. Don't dodge the issue in the way you did the West Stand lifts for disabled fans by just not sending out passes.
I doubt if you would get a bigger retail space in the former Corner Flag, which in any case is leased out to the community trust, will probably be yielding a rent and is likely to have been refurbished with public money, all of which could be obstacles.
The initial deal for the drop in centre / community trust use of the former corner flag space, was I think for three years with a minimal rent. However even if the space was given up,there would not be enough space there for a match day retail operation. As people have commented already the current shop is not adequate on match days, if it was transferred into the current space available it would get dramatically worse.
have the scales fallen from my eyes? Do I see the fog lifting with the rumour of the club shop being turned into flats?
Given the benefit of the doubt, what if RD had a "dream" to show the football world how it could work without the "big money" boys? Did he forsee historic recognition for himself as the person with vision who beat all the odds etc., etc.
OR, were his long-term plans hidden behind a smoke-screen?
What if his "genuine" dream became a non-runner? What is he left with? Five football clubs around Europe with significant areas of land which could be ripe for redevelopment given a change of use. Following a prolonged period of undermining the football clubs with a lack of investment in both players and management, fans would gradually lose interest and drift away (as we are witnessing). The footballing sides of the businesses he bought would eventually become so poor that they could become extinct? No more protesters to prevent plans for redevelopment; a corporate solicitor in place to oversee his plans are seen through. His "small" investments in the infrustructure recouped hansomely by the eventual profits. Five football clubs jettisoned into history. All callously used as stepping-stones to make a greedy rich man, even richer. Job done.
Someone help me put the scales back. I didn't want to see this. Tell me this is just a nightmare vision born out of despair.
(Would account for his virtual disinterest in the football success and KM's announced disinterest in the history of our proud club).
I doubt if you would get a bigger retail space in the former Corner Flag, which in any case is leased out to the community trust, will probably be yielding a rent and is likely to have been refurbished with public money, all of which could be obstacles.
The initial deal for the drop in centre / community trust use of the former corner flag space, was I think for three years with a minimal rent. However even if the space was given up,there would not be enough space there for a match day retail operation. As people have commented already the current shop is not adequate on match days, if it was transferred into the current space available it would get dramatically worse.
Sorry not only are you a "ex-employee" but you actually have some knowledge of how the club works and how to run a commercial operation at a variety of sporting venues so your views are not welcome. : - )
There's also a version in which the ticket office is closed permanently, with all non matchday sales forced online, and the shop goes in there with new frontage.
I doubt if you would get a bigger retail space in the former Corner Flag, which in any case is leased out to the community trust, will probably be yielding a rent and is likely to have been refurbished with public money, all of which could be obstacles.
As people have commented already the current shop is not adequate on match days, if it was transferred into the current space available it would get dramatically worse.
on a par with everything else he has touched so far
There's also a version in which the ticket office is closed permanently, with all non matchday sales forced online, and the shop goes in there with new frontage.
Pay on the day, with phone apps and contactless cards, seats allocated a la cinema style booking screens. All you would need is a couple dozen terminals set on the outside of the stands. No need for ticket office then. Combine with moving retail into the stand itself and I don't see the problem.
The real problem is if we start selling off bits that matter a whole lot more
There's also a version in which the ticket office is closed permanently, with all non matchday sales forced online, and the shop goes in there with new frontage.
Pay on the day, with phone apps and contactless cards, seats allocated a la cinema style booking screens. All you would need is a couple dozen terminals set on the outside of the stands. No need for ticket office then. Combine with moving retail into the stand itself and I don't see the problem.
The real problem is if we start selling off bits that matter a whole lot more
Have you noticed how well the ticketing went in the summer and how efficient the catering sales are?
There's also a version in which the ticket office is closed permanently, with all non matchday sales forced online, and the shop goes in there with new frontage.
Pay on the day, with phone apps and contactless cards, seats allocated a la cinema style booking screens. All you would need is a couple dozen terminals set on the outside of the stands. No need for ticket office then. Combine with moving retail into the stand itself and I don't see the problem.
The real problem is if we start selling off bits that matter a whole lot more
You probably don't see a problem because you don't have an understanding of the range of issues that arise on a day-to-day basis or of the variety of needs of people buying tickets.
In fairness, I'd be confident Katrien Meire understands less than you.
There's also a version in which the ticket office is closed permanently, with all non matchday sales forced online, and the shop goes in there with new frontage.
Pay on the day, with phone apps and contactless cards, seats allocated a la cinema style booking screens. All you would need is a couple dozen terminals set on the outside of the stands. No need for ticket office then. Combine with moving retail into the stand itself and I don't see the problem.
The real problem is if we start selling off bits that matter a whole lot more
Not a chance that would work.
I've worked closely with ticketing operations at different sports clubs, and there is no way you can move everything online. There are so many issues that arise that require the need for a ticket office staffed by people not machines.
Edit. Sorry Airman, you've basically said the same thing.
On page 133 it address the "Trainer’s Bench Facilities"
K.29. Each Club shall provide separate trainer’s benches adjacent to the pitch for the sole use of team officials, medical staff and substitute Players of each of the Home Club and the Visiting Club. Such trainer’s benches shall be clearly marked ‘Home’ and ‘Away’, shall have direct access onto the pitch, shall be located equidistant from the halfway line, shall be under cover and shall each be capable of seating not less than 14 persons.
Ours clearly don't meet the current rules. I don't think flashy Recaro style seats are specified, even though most clubs seem to have them!
On page 133 it address the "Trainer’s Bench Facilities"
K.29. Each Club shall provide separate trainer’s benches adjacent to the pitch for the sole use of team officials, medical staff and substitute Players of each of the Home Club and the Visiting Club. Such trainer’s benches shall be clearly marked ‘Home’ and ‘Away’, shall have direct access onto the pitch, shall be located equidistant from the halfway line, shall be under cover and shall each be capable of seating not less than 14 persons.
Ours clearly don't meet the current rules. I don't think flashy Recaro style seats are specified, even though most clubs seem to have them!
I doubt if you would get a bigger retail space in the former Corner Flag, which in any case is leased out to the community trust, will probably be yielding a rent and is likely to have been refurbished with public money, all of which could be obstacles.
I suspect the Belgians would like to build over the space currently used as a secondary vehicle entrance to create a continuous residential development with the existing Floyd Road housing.
Personally, I am against selling off bits of The Valley with no long-term strategic plan t make the best use of the site. The land sold on Valley Grove would have yielded a much bigger return as parking over time and provided more sensible access. The Lansdowne Mews land sold would add massively to the cost of any further stadium development in that area.
The problem with retail is that it would struggle to justify a non-matchday operation, especially to someone daft enough to close the ticket office in midweek, so you could easily end up with mail order run from the ticket office and matchday souvenir stalls, all of which of course would meet the Belgians' number one objective of cost cutting.
It does make sense to combine the retail and ticketing operation, which is why it was tried before, but the layout of the stadium doesn't make this easy. Having the main retail presence at the O2 (or Bexleyheath) is a complete non-starter.
All of which fits with the gossip I was hearing, albeit third hand.
It would also fit in with Roland's willingness to splash out on Cap Ex projects but penny pinch on operations
It would also fit in with the "do things in isolation and without thinking through the consequences" management style.
An ambitious club with clear, long term plans to improve the facilities and "match day experience" would be looking at the whole of the West Stand/car park/shop location and looking to see how to maximise income and value of the club.
They wouldn't be looking to reduce the retail offering to stalls but KM has nothing learn from fans, she's told us that.
Building a large scales extension on the West Stand to create a better retail space, more offices, more lounges and better dressing rooms would be expensive and problematic but would be a long term solution to a number of issues.
On a side note if the subs benches are too small for the premier league guidelines (and I'm not sure where that comes from) then now is the time to do it ie when the gates are low and you can re-locate the seat holders to vacant seats. But please tell the season ticket holders first and offer them some compensation. Don't dodge the issue in the way you did the West Stand lifts for disabled fans by just not sending out passes.
There's also a version in which the ticket office is closed permanently, with all non matchday sales forced online, and the shop goes in there with new frontage.
Is that why they are trying to drive us all away, so the online sales will only have to cope with a few hundred sales per match?
So is the thinking that the owner wants to sell the land after all and reap development cash while moving a low cost club to a new ground somewhere else ?
So is the thinking that the owner wants to sell the land after all and reap development cash while moving a low cost club to a new ground somewhere else ?
Yes. A ground in Belgium most likely. We could groundshare with VW Hamme
There's also a version in which the ticket office is closed permanently, with all non matchday sales forced online, and the shop goes in there with new frontage.
Pay on the day, with phone apps and contactless cards, seats allocated a la cinema style booking screens. All you would need is a couple dozen terminals set on the outside of the stands. No need for ticket office then. Combine with moving retail into the stand itself and I don't see the problem.
The real problem is if we start selling off bits that matter a whole lot more
Other than alienating the old gits who are not technically savvy but then we know KM detests older long term fans so you are probably right.
Sell the ground, merge with the Spanners, move to the Peninsula, play in red and blue, become a feeder club for Palarse, open a club shop in New Cross, appoint Ian Holloway as manager, close all catering services, sell all Academy players to the Hamsters, and limit Valley Express to one minivan.
Comments
I suspect the Belgians would like to build over the space currently used as a secondary vehicle entrance on matchdays to create a continuous residential development with the existing Floyd Road housing. That makes more planning sense to me.
However, see also the council's planning conditions on the lapsed east stand scheme which were vehemently against third party residential use and fiercely contested by the club at the time. Remind me who was council leader then?
Personally, I am against selling off bits of The Valley with no long-term strategic plan to make the best use of the site for football. The land sold on Valley Grove would have yielded a much bigger return as parking over time and provided more sensible access. The Lansdowne Mews land sold would add massively to the cost of any further stadium development in that area.
The problem with retail is that it would probably struggle to justify a non-matchday standalone operation, especially to someone daft enough to close the ticket office in midweek, so you could easily end up with mail order run from the ticket office and matchday souvenir stalls, all of which of course would meet the Belgians' number one objective of cost cutting.
It does make sense to combine the retail and ticketing operation, which is why it was tried before, but the layout of the stadium doesn't make this easy. Having the main retail presence at the O2 (or Bexleyheath) is a complete non-starter.
That's it, the end.
If you don't see a problem with this you're a mental person.
It would also fit in with Roland's willingness to splash out on Cap Ex projects but penny pinch on operations
It would also fit in with the "do things in isolation and without thinking through the consequences" management style.
An ambitious club with clear, long term plans to improve the facilities and "match day experience" would be looking at the whole of the West Stand/car park/shop location and looking to see how to maximise income and value of the club.
They wouldn't be looking to reduce the retail offering to stalls but KM has nothing learn from fans, she's told us that.
Building a large scales extension on the West Stand to create a better retail space, more offices, more lounges and better dressing rooms would be expensive and problematic but would be a long term solution to a number of issues.
On a side note if the subs benches are too small for the premier league guidelines (and I'm not sure where that comes from) then now is the time to do it ie when the gates are low and you can re-locate the seat holders to vacant seats. But please tell the season ticket holders first and offer them some compensation. Don't dodge the issue in the way you did the West Stand lifts for disabled fans by just not sending out passes.
The initial deal for the drop in centre / community trust use of the former corner flag space, was I think for three years with a minimal rent.
However even if the space was given up,there would not be enough space there for a match day retail operation.
As people have commented already the current shop is not adequate on match days, if it was transferred into the current space available it would get dramatically worse.
Given the benefit of the doubt, what if RD had a "dream" to show the football world how it could work without the "big money" boys? Did he forsee historic recognition for himself as the person with vision who beat all the odds etc., etc.
OR, were his long-term plans hidden behind a smoke-screen?
What if his "genuine" dream became a non-runner? What is he left with? Five football clubs around Europe with significant areas of land which could be ripe for redevelopment given a change of use. Following a prolonged period of undermining the football clubs with a lack of investment in both players and management, fans would gradually lose interest and drift away (as we are witnessing). The footballing sides of the businesses he bought would eventually become so poor that they could become extinct? No more protesters to prevent plans for redevelopment; a corporate solicitor in place to oversee his plans are seen through. His "small" investments in the infrustructure recouped hansomely by the eventual profits. Five football clubs jettisoned into history. All callously used as stepping-stones to make a greedy rich man, even richer. Job done.
Someone help me put the scales back. I didn't want to see this. Tell me this is just a nightmare vision born out of despair.
(Would account for his virtual disinterest in the football success and KM's announced disinterest in the history of our proud club).
The real problem is if we start selling off bits that matter a whole lot more
Yeah, can't see any problem there.
In fairness, I'd be confident Katrien Meire understands less than you.
I've worked closely with ticketing operations at different sports clubs, and there is no way you can move everything online. There are so many issues that arise that require the need for a ticket office staffed by people not machines.
Edit. Sorry Airman, you've basically said the same thing.
I found this, which is the PL rules for 2014/15
On page 133 it address the "Trainer’s Bench Facilities" Ours clearly don't meet the current rules. I don't think flashy Recaro style seats are specified, even though most clubs seem to have them!
Thanks,
;-)