Loaned to Derby? Havent read all the posts, but why haven't we had him back on loan?
Because (if the rumours are true) that's where Liverpool want him to go to develop further. I can see some good possible reasons for that: - If they let him play for Charlton there's a danger he may think of himself as a Charlton player rather than a Liverpool player on loan to another club.
What, you mean he might actually try harder? Perish the thought
- If he goes to Derby, or elsewhere, he'll learn different things from working with a different manager and different coaches. - If he goes to Derby, or elsewhere, he'll learn different things from working alongside different defenders.
True. But how important is that really? he's only 18. I'd have thought that Liverpool would consider that what he learns at Liverpool is what's important.
- It's a chance to test how he responds to being in a different situation. How long does it take him to fit into a new team rather than just carrying on in the same situation?
Ok. Suppose he doesn't fit very well at Derby? What will they conclude? That he won't make the transition to Liverpool either? Nope, I think they will proceed as planned and see how he actually does, at Liverpool.
- It's a lot easier for their coaches/scouts to watch him and track his progress from Derby than London, and easier for him if he has to go back to Liverpool.
Clutching at straws there, Stig. But at least you didn't include NLA's "Man up in the Marriott" reason.
Adding all that lot up, it's a no brainer really. If I was Brendan Rogers, there's no way he'd be coming back to Charlton.
I guess I am just more cynical about this big-clubs-loaning- youngsters thing. I think what mainly drives it is that they are hoovering up youngsters to comply -cynically - with the English in squad rule, and realise that they need game time, rather than sitting in the reserves , and can get some of the wages covered.
What do you think Brendan Rogers would have done, had he been confronted with a clause in JG's contract that insisted we have first dibs on a loan back? I think he would not have been remotely bothered. Neither of us know, of course.
I dont know if Joe wanted to stay another year, I dont know if a loan back was discussed,
It's my opinion that if Joe wanted to stay another year he could have signed a 12 month extension, he never so, I would take that as either a) he didn't want too, b) to get Joe to sign last yrs extension it had a few bits in to facilitate an easy move which did not include any option of a loan back
With regards to any said loan back,
I don't see the value to the new club, the player or his development, it only benefits the club purchased from, and for that reason I dont understand why people would feel it should be in any negotiations had and if it was in there it would need to greatly reduce any cash sale otherwise the signing club gain nothing
I believe Joe kept his powder dry said the right things to the right people and left with his head held high, knowing he hadn't shit on the club, their fans or jeopardising his future fans relationship or his opportunity to leave without hassle
All of this is opinion not fact or insider knowledge just opinion
I don't think in my lifetime we will produce a better player than Joe gomez from what I saw myself and from those who have been in and around him for a very long time and witnessed him first hand through the majority of that time, Joe gomez is the first player we have produced that is fully the real deal, can go to the very top with ease
I am gutted he has gone and I am gutted that we were not able to have him help us achieve in a footballing term,
We have to sell young players to survive. But Jesus Christ, couldn't we just see them play a bit if we're chipping in via Valley Gold? That said, I cancelled mine when we sold Shelvey, and my mate is cancelling his tomorrow. Some will come on here and rattle on about Solly and how the VG is important. CAFC is a business and it should fund its own youth policy, not get us to do it and then sell them before they play any serious games for the club. £3.5m is an absolute joke. Palace hold on to their players as long as they can, and Milwall are lucky that nobody wants theirs, we must occasionally hold on to one of these kids and sell them for £6-10m.
We have to sell young players to survive. But Jesus Christ, couldn't we just see them play a bit if we're chipping in via Valley Gold? That said, I cancelled mine when we sold Shelvey, and my mate is cancelling his tomorrow. Some will come on here and rattle on about Solly and how the VG is important. CAFC is a business and it should fund its own youth policy, not get us to do it and then sell them before they play any serious games for the club. £3.5m is an absolute joke. Palace hold on to their players as long as they can, and Milwall are lucky that nobody wants theirs, we must occasionally hold on to one of these kids and sell them for £6-10m.
Hmm. Some interesting points. Just one thing, I don't know if you'd noticed the other posts on the subject, but IT. WAS. NOT. £3.5MILLION.
Prague where have I once said man up in the marriot
I have clearly stated from a development point of view why these loans are done and not one of those reasons is to man up
You really do come out with some very strange own interpretation of what is posted ,
Well I was taking a bit of a liberty, but you did seem to me to be saying that going Ooop North and proving you can handle the life change, was important. And to some extent, I could agree with that. But when young players are uprooted and then apparently can't settle, I wonder whether it is really fair to just assume it was the player's character that was lacking.
Re your later post why would Joe have needed to sign an extension if he wanted to stay this season? This coming season would only have been the second of his existing 3 year deal
I shall be buying 4 season tickets , sponsoring a game as I do every season and travelling all over the place supporting the club as ever. I shall not be chipping in so Liverpool and Arsenal can come in and nick our young players for nothing. In case anyone is interested.
So that we still had some decent bargaining power, you leave it any longer and the pendulum swings further from the owner club
OK, get that, but then should not the initiative for an extension come from the club, if it thought it likely that we'd really want him to stay for the coming season? And bloody hell, from the state of our centre backs in the second half of the season you'd think the thought might have crossed their minds.
So that we still had some decent bargaining power, you leave it any longer and the pendulum swings further from the owner club
And bloody hell, from the state of our centre backs in the second half of the season you'd think the thought might have crossed their minds.
Maybe the state of our centre backs was a contributory factor to Joe Gomez going. What highly talented youngster is going to want to hang around in a club which avowedly aspires only to survival in the Championship and which buys the type of players which fit that bill? On top of that, I cannot see why any club who buys such a player would want to loan him back to a club which demonstrates such limited ambition - just how much would he learn from the kind of players we have got? Yes, all Championship clubs are selling clubs but it must be easier for a player to jump ship if he doesn't think that his talents are going to be stretched and enhanced by the team he is playing with. Big fish in small pools don't learn much. Of course, it's possible that the player might discover that he remains a mere tiddler in the larger pool - that's the gamble. But I don't think that's likely to happen with Joe Gomez.
Good luck Joe. Glad our Valley Gold money has once again bought through a good youngster like Shelvey and Jenkinson. Anyone know the total amount of first team games played by these three youth products?
If the fee is undisclosed why would even our press officer be party to the details? I don't know how these things work so I am not saying the fee would not be widely known within staff at The Valley, but if undisclosed then why would anyone not on the board know?
A colleague of mine is good friends with a Director at Liverpool who told him last week it was £3.5M and going to happen (about Thursday time). Could well be rubbish but seems a better source than non board members at Charlton.
If the fee is undisclosed why would even our press officer be party to the details? I don't know how these things work so I am not saying the fee would not be widely known within staff at The Valley, but if undisclosed then why would anyone not on the board know?
A colleague of mine is good friends with a Director at Liverpool who told him last week it was £3.5M and going to happen (about Thursday time). Could well be rubbish but seems a better source than non board members at Charlton.
The same way I would suggest he put to bed rumours of the Belgian convicted rapist joining and also the French manager, part of his role I presume is to feedback both media and fans reactions into senior management of which at that stage he'd get a response
If the fee is undisclosed why would even our press officer be party to the details? I don't know how these things work so I am not saying the fee would not be widely known within staff at The Valley, but if undisclosed then why would anyone not on the board know?
A colleague of mine is good friends with a Director at Liverpool who told him last week it was £3.5M and going to happen (about Thursday time). Could well be rubbish but seems a better source than non board members at Charlton.
And I heard the story about Gomez agent even earlier, on Tuesday. But on the other hand, the source also suggested we had negotiated a loan-back clause.
It seems clear that one way or another Liverpool got themselves in a position of exclusivity. Not a peep of another club , despite Gomez being well tracked for years, we are told by Lifers closer to the players. I can't think of any good reason why Charlton would willingly be in that situation, so I think this story about his agent is credible, and I would like extremely bad things to happen to this agent.
Good luck Joe. Glad our Valley Gold money has once again bought through a good youngster like Shelvey and Jenkinson. Anyone know the total amount of first team games played by these three youth products?
A flag is a piece of fabric (most often rectangular or quadrilateral) with a distinctive design that is used as a symbol, as a signaling device, or as decoration.
Good luck Joe. Glad our Valley Gold money has once again bought through a good youngster like Shelvey and Jenkinson. Anyone know the total amount of first team games played by these three youth products?
A flag is a piece of fabric (most often rectangular or quadrilateral) with a distinctive design that is used as a symbol, as a signaling device, or as decoration.
But most importantly, it requires a Fire Safety certificate if you want to take it into various Championship grounds.
I thought a lot of joes contract stuff was looked after by his dad, I may be totally wrong but I know his dad was heavily involved in ensuring Joe stayed put at cafc for his youth career and in signing the extension last season,
We paid 2.75 million for Francis Jeffers. We're 750k to the good.
Of course Gomez should be worth more. He offers far more of a goal threat than Jeffers - and that's without having scored a goal for us!
Jeffers managed a grand total of 37 career League goals. Away from Everton, Jeffers managed just 19 League goals in 12 years and his purchase was probably the prime reason for Wenger's reluctance to dip his hand in his pocket over the last decade.
Comments
It's my opinion that if Joe wanted to stay another year he could have signed a 12 month extension, he never so, I would take that as either a) he didn't want too, b) to get Joe to sign last yrs extension it had a few bits in to facilitate an easy move which did not include any option of a loan back
With regards to any said loan back,
I don't see the value to the new club, the player or his development, it only benefits the club purchased from, and for that reason I dont understand why people would feel it should be in any negotiations had and if it was in there it would need to greatly reduce any cash sale otherwise the signing club gain nothing
I believe Joe kept his powder dry said the right things to the right people and left with his head held high, knowing he hadn't shit on the club, their fans or jeopardising his future fans relationship or his opportunity to leave without hassle
All of this is opinion not fact or insider knowledge just opinion
I am gutted he has gone and I am gutted that we were not able to have him help us achieve in a footballing term,
I have clearly stated from a development point of view why these loans are done and not one of those reasons is to man up
You really do come out with some very strange own interpretation of what is posted ,
Apparently.
Re your later post why would Joe have needed to sign an extension if he wanted to stay this season? This coming season would only have been the second of his existing 3 year deal
A colleague of mine is good friends with a Director at Liverpool who told him last week it was £3.5M and going to happen (about Thursday time). Could well be rubbish but seems a better source than non board members at Charlton.
It seems clear that one way or another Liverpool got themselves in a position of exclusivity. Not a peep of another club , despite Gomez being well tracked for years, we are told by Lifers closer to the players. I can't think of any good reason why Charlton would willingly be in that situation, so I think this story about his agent is credible, and I would like extremely bad things to happen to this agent.
A flag is a piece of fabric (most often rectangular or quadrilateral) with a distinctive design that is used as a symbol, as a signaling device, or as decoration.
Jeffers managed a grand total of 37 career League goals. Away from Everton, Jeffers managed just 19 League goals in 12 years and his purchase was probably the prime reason for Wenger's reluctance to dip his hand in his pocket over the last decade.