Joe signed a deal that meant if someone wanted him they had to buy him, Poyet didn't
They both signed one deal. End of. If we hadn't played Gomez for the first 2.5 years of his then played him for 20 games right at the end and suddenly realised he was fantastic and Liverpool came knocking then do you really think he would have signed another one?
No, sorry, these are two different situations. Diego received a deal when he was young and nowhere near the squad. He then broke into the squad at a time when we couldn't even renew our first team players' contracts. Subsequently we were able to offer new contracts when Roland came in and Diego stuck two fingers up and walked away with his POTY trophy for peanuts having given us half a season. Once Joe started appearing in the team it was clear as day we wouldn't have him for long, and he was in a situation where he knew big teams would come in for him and he still signed his deal.
It's not about the number of deals the players signed, it's about the stage of development they were at. Both players reached the point where they were ready to break into the first team, and one agreed to secure a decent deal for us knowing he would move on and the other decided he wasn't too bothered about that. Which was his choice, but let's not pretend that they both made the same decision.
They both signed one deal when young men (aged 17). One stayed the entire length of his contract so could be argued he was the more loyal of the two yet he gets the abuse.
(I am by no means having a go at JG who I have no problem, just pointing out a certain hypocrisy).
Surely their age isn't the deciding factor here, it's how close they were to the 1st team when they signed their new deals.
Not that I agree with undisclosed fees, but it prevents others from hiking their asking price in theory, not sure I agree thats true Insuspect what others are willing to offer is far more important; but perhaps more important stops our fans expecting x amount to be spent.
Didn't Murray say RD being here meant we could hold onto our younger players longer? So about a year longer then..
On another note where are debt figures people keep bandying about coming from?
He bought the club (not a debt) Long term debt, only if we return to the prem, and due to expire eventually and at this rate before well before reach it
Losses from last year or so? don't these things normally get written off against profits in the group? Mind you there may not be any..
You have to put money in to right it off. The club
a) has to have cash in order to trade - no cash no club - doesn't matter whether you make a profit. Profit or loss is just what happened to the money. You have to have it to trade. b) somebody has to physically inject it. This can be by directors loans, external loans, ticket sales and revenue from catering etc, or by player sales, asset sales, even by donations or grants. c)If the club spends more money than it raises from its customers, year on year - it's insolvent unless money is injected.
That is the reality of football these days. Investing in youth is a perfectly reasonable proposition. It needs to show a return. Yes of course that return could come in performances of the team. If it was your money though and somebody was prepared to pay top dollar (not the £3.5 which it's not) would you trouser it and reinvest; or hope the player fires you to the premier league in a few years time when you will have had to put your hand in your pocket time and again to realise this (and with no guarantee)?
It's the loss of the hope of the future that is hard to swallow as a fan but unless RD sells on to another Russian Oligarch or Oil Rich Sheik, there is little chance of us holding on to players like JG any time soon. At least our academy is still producing them.
Loaned to Derby? Havent read all the posts, but why haven't we had him back on loan?
Liverpool seem to like sending players there,Ibe and Wisdom both developed well at Derby. I'm kinda hoping a similar partnership will emerge between us and Arsenal after we taught Song & Coquelin how to play (Frimpong was beyond anyone's improvement).
Can I ask how the people bandying about figures from £6m to £10 know this to be the case? The media are reporting £3.5m, there will clearly be add ons I know but on what else are people basing their assumptions?
Likewise, as others have said, this loan to Derby?
There appears (as usual) to be a lot of people making things up to suit their argument.
Can I ask how the people bandying about figures from £6m to £10 know this to be the case? The media are reporting £3.5m, there will clearly be add ons I know but on what else are people basing their assumptions?
Likewise, as others have said, this loan to Derby?
There appears (as usual) to be a lot of people making things up to suit their argument.
The possible loan move to Derby was mentioned in the BBC story that gave the £3.5m figure.
Can I ask how the people bandying about figures from £6m to £10 know this to be the case? The media are reporting £3.5m, there will clearly be add ons I know but on what else are people basing their assumptions?
Likewise, as others have said, this loan to Derby?
There appears (as usual) to be a lot of people making things up to suit their argument.
The club's press officer said on his own twitter feed the 3.5m was wrong.
The club's unofficial mouthpiece Richard Cawley said 5 to 6m rising to 10m.
Joe Gomez is class, both as a player and a young man. T o believe that he jumped at the first offer of big bucks is wrong. If we were a well run club with an owner showing ambition he would have stayed another year. If he was only interested in the short-term pay-out he would have left a year ago. In the end he did what was best for himself.
As well as Joe has behaved I just don't believe that.
As soon as Liverpool showed interest we were now only concentrating on the best deal possible. RD could have gone out and still purchased 2 or 3 quality players and JG still would have wanted to go. Thats the feeling I get from his interviews.
But we have Jimmy Stone prepared to repeat on here what he said on Twitter, that he felt Gomez was prepared to stay here another season. As far as I know, he is the only person on here (with the possible exception of @nth london addick , who isn't claiming it) who has been in a position to actually talk to Joe in recent weeks. In addition, I heard from a decent source that Gomez agent did all he could to make it easy for Liverpool by revealing all aspects of his contract. Again I cannot be sure it's true. However if there was no release clause it was perhaps surprising that it seems no other club (some of whom have been tracking Gomez for five years according to NLA and others) moved in to trump Liverpool.
While there is that kind of insight available it is inevitable that some of us will wonder whether we made the best decision it was possible to make for CAFC, at this time. Maybe it was. I can understand the argument for not declaring transfer fees. But it's hardly surprising that fans then wish to discuss the pros and cons of the move.
Let's not forget that Derby have a certain youngster that the bigger clubs might be interested in. You scratch my back etc..
If Will Hughes doesn't go to Liverpool this close season it will be because there is some doubt about him being a top 6 player in the Prem. Also both Manchester clubs have been interested in Hughes since he was 17 if not younger, but again they are not sure about him being more than a squad player.
For Will Hughes at 20, who has already played 121 games for the Rams, Sitting on the bench will not be a good career move. As he comes from a wealthy family from Weybridge, and then was sent to the public school in Repton in Leicestershire, money won't be the deciding factor where he go's next.
Hugely frustrating to see 3.5m figure being bounded about as fact. Totally incorrect.... #cafc Olly Groom
Facts have never stopped Charlton fans from moaning like girls before. It won't stop them believing what suits their opinions now.
RD out.
Ha. The statement from OG could just as readily be directed at the Directors as at the supporters. If he is 'frustrated' it should be because the club lack the bollox to front up and disclose the fee, rather than because genuine supporters are anxious to know how much we actually got for our best youngster in a generation.
Hugely frustrating to see 3.5m figure being bounded about as fact. Totally incorrect.... #cafc Olly Groom
Facts have never stopped Charlton fans from moaning like girls before. It won't stop them believing what suits their opinions now.
RD out.
Ha. The statement from OG could just as readily be directed at the Directors as at the supporters. If he is 'frustrated' it should be because the club lack the bollox to front up and disclose the fee, rather than because genuine supporters are anxious to know how much we actually got for our best youngster in a generation.
No, really they couldn't
Olly Groome @ollygroome 23h23 hours ago Rest assured, we got a good deal, and rumours of release clause total nonsense. #cafc 34 retweets 18 favorites Reply Retweet34 Favorite18 More Olly Groome @ollygroome 23h23 hours ago Hugely frustrating to see 3.5m figure being bounded about as fact. Totally incorrect.... #cafc
Hugely frustrating to see 3.5m figure being bounded about as fact. Totally incorrect.... #cafc Olly Groom
Facts have never stopped Charlton fans from moaning like girls before. It won't stop them believing what suits their opinions now.
RD out.
Ha. The statement from OG could just as readily be directed at the Directors as at the supporters. If he is 'frustrated' it should be because the club lack the bollox to front up and disclose the fee, rather than because genuine supporters are anxious to know how much we actually got for our best youngster in a generation.
No, really they couldn't
Olly Groome @ollygroome 23h23 hours ago Rest assured, we got a good deal, and rumours of release clause total nonsense. #cafc 34 retweets 18 favorites Reply Retweet34 Favorite18 More Olly Groome @ollygroome 23h23 hours ago Hugely frustrating to see 3.5m figure being bounded about as fact. Totally incorrect.... #cafc
It's a shame we will not see him grow more @ CAFC but for me the irony in the entire episode is the fact that he was born on our very own doorstep -- let's hope we continue to make sure we keep an eye locally for talent.....it is there , always. Good luck Joe - you deserve the chance , take it.
Can I ask how the people bandying about figures from £6m to £10 know this to be the case? The media are reporting £3.5m, there will clearly be add ons I know but on what else are people basing their assumptions?
Likewise, as others have said, this loan to Derby?
There appears (as usual) to be a lot of people making things up to suit their argument.
The possible loan move to Derby was mentioned in the BBC story that gave the £3.5m figure.
So the general consensus is that we believe the bit about Derby, but not the bit about £3.5m then?
Why wouldn't you want to send Joe to a club that is:
a) Likely to be competing at the top of the league b) Managed by someone who has coached the best players in the world over the past few years c) Is not "making do" in every single way (other than a nice pitch and radiant red seats)
It's about ambition and I simply don't think our club has any at the moment. I haven't heard anything from the club that would indicate otherwise either.
No wonder players and staff have been and are continuing to assess their options.
a), b) and c) would pretty much preclude Liverpool from the clubs of choice though!
As said previously I don't really give a damn about the money side, just gutted that we only got to see Gomez make 16 starts for us, most of those not even in his best position.
Was really looking forward to seeing a him grow as a CB next season with back line of Henderson, Solly, Gomez, Another, Wiggins.
The #madeincharlton stuff really don't mean anything to me to be honest anymore.
Loaned to Derby? Havent read all the posts, but why haven't we had him back on loan?
Because (if the rumours are true) that's where Liverpool want him to go to develop further. I can see some good possible reasons for that: - If they let him play for Charlton there's a danger he may think of himself as a Charlton player rather than a Liverpool player on loan to another club. - If he goes to Derby, or elsewhere, he'll learn different things from working with a different manager and different coaches. - If he goes to Derby, or elsewhere, he'll learn different things from working alongside different defenders. - It's a chance to test how he responds to being in a different situation. How long does it take him to fit into a new team rather than just carrying on in the same situation? - It's a lot easier for their coaches/scouts to watch him and track his progress from Derby than London, and easier for him if he has to go back to Liverpool.
Adding all that lot up, it's a no brainer really. If I was Brendan Rogers, there's no way he'd be coming back to Charlton.
The bottom line is we have the money and Liverpool will have no say in how we spend it and will see none of the benefit from that spend. Liverpool have the player and will decide where he plays. There's no reason to think that Charlton would get the benefit of they either.
Hugely frustrating to see 3.5m figure being bounded about as fact. Totally incorrect.... #cafc Olly Groom
Facts have never stopped Charlton fans from moaning like girls before. It won't stop them believing what suits their opinions now.
RD out.
Ha. The statement from OG could just as readily be directed at the Directors as at the supporters. If he is 'frustrated' it should be because the club lack the bollox to front up and disclose the fee, rather than because genuine supporters are anxious to know how much we actually got for our best youngster in a generation.
No, really they couldn't
Olly Groome @ollygroome 23h23 hours ago Rest assured, we got a good deal, and rumours of release clause total nonsense. #cafc 34 retweets 18 favorites Reply Retweet34 Favorite18 More Olly Groome @ollygroome 23h23 hours ago Hugely frustrating to see 3.5m figure being bounded about as fact. Totally incorrect.... #cafc
Smoke and mirrors.
I have it on good authority that Olly has no interest in either cigarettes or checking out his hair at every opportunity.
Twas ever thus, NLA. However I would say differing opinions rather than divided!
My take on this is that because the full details are not available people (some) fill the spaces with assumptions. £3.5 mill is a joke versus £10m is good business. We just don't know the full amount and that could be for very valid reasons - RD may not want it known as players we want all of a sudden get more expensive - Liverpool may not want it known for their own reasons - Joe himself may not want it known. It's a commercial deal between two private companies.
The total deal is likely to be between £6-10 million (a guess - it could be less) - and for me that's pretty good business for a lad with great potential who has played 20 first team games in the Championship. Liverpool are taking a gamble that the potential shown so far will translate into a top six Premiership player.
Some say what's the point of the academy when we always sell our best graduates - well that's the whole point of the academy for a club our size. It makes us sustainable. Also don't forget that Joe did sign a new contract - he didn't have to and we would have ended up with another Poyet situation. I feel he has handled himself very well throughout and I wish him nothing but great success in the future - he deserves it.
I see it as a good day for our club. Lots of speculation as Bob says about the actual fee, but I don't think we'll be short changed in terms of the fee. I think I remember KM saying on a podcast I listened to earlier in the season that our turnover is about £12m. The fact is every couple of seasons we need a Gomez to keep us going financially. We've had 3 seasons of Championship survival. In each season we've flirted with relegation at some point
If the Club don't want to release official figures then they need to accept that there will be speculation. If the speculation leads people to believe that the offer is too low and therefore leaves a section of the fans disgruntled, then the Club need to accept that too. Of course, they could stop all of this by just being honest about the transfer fees.
Comments
I honestly think half the time they just take 'itk rumours' from forums.
a) has to have cash in order to trade - no cash no club - doesn't matter whether you make a profit. Profit or loss is just what happened to the money. You have to have it to trade.
b) somebody has to physically inject it. This can be by directors loans, external loans, ticket sales and revenue from catering etc, or by player sales, asset sales, even by donations or grants.
c)If the club spends more money than it raises from its customers, year on year - it's insolvent unless money is injected.
That is the reality of football these days. Investing in youth is a perfectly reasonable proposition. It needs to show a return. Yes of course that return could come in performances of the team. If it was your money though and somebody was prepared to pay top dollar (not the £3.5 which it's not) would you trouser it and reinvest; or hope the player fires you to the premier league in a few years time when you will have had to put your hand in your pocket time and again to realise this (and with no guarantee)?
It's the loss of the hope of the future that is hard to swallow as a fan but unless RD sells on to another Russian Oligarch or Oil Rich Sheik, there is little chance of us holding on to players like JG any time soon. At least our academy is still producing them.
Likewise, as others have said, this loan to Derby?
There appears (as usual) to be a lot of people making things up to suit their argument.
The club's unofficial mouthpiece Richard Cawley said 5 to 6m rising to 10m.
So I take that to be the club's version.
Up to every one what to believe.
PS between you and me Perry 5.2m with add ons
While there is that kind of insight available it is inevitable that some of us will wonder whether we made the best decision it was possible to make for CAFC, at this time. Maybe it was. I can understand the argument for not declaring transfer fees. But it's hardly surprising that fans then wish to discuss the pros and cons of the move.
Derby are the club Liverpool loan players too: Wisdom and Jordon Ibe.
Plus Lindgard from Man Utd and Bamford from Chelsea have had Loan spells at
Derby.
They are the Go to Club for young talent from the elite Clubs.
Also both Manchester clubs have been interested in Hughes since he was 17 if not younger, but again they are not sure about him being more than a squad player.
For Will Hughes at 20, who has already played 121 games for the Rams,
Sitting on the bench will not be a good career move.
As he comes from a wealthy family from Weybridge, and then was sent to the public school in Repton in Leicestershire, money won't be the deciding factor where he go's next.
The statement from OG could just as readily be directed at the Directors as at the supporters. If he is 'frustrated' it should be because the club lack the bollox to front up and disclose the fee, rather than because genuine supporters are anxious to know how much we actually got for our best youngster in a generation.
Olly Groome @ollygroome 23h23 hours ago
Rest assured, we got a good deal, and rumours of release clause total nonsense. #cafc
34 retweets 18 favorites
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Olly Groome @ollygroome 23h23 hours ago
Hugely frustrating to see 3.5m figure being bounded about as fact. Totally incorrect.... #cafc
Good luck Joe - you deserve the chance , take it.
I'm confused...
(Nothing new there)
* Man on internet decides that if the deal goes ahead it's likely that Gomez will go out on loan. Probably somewhere good....like Derby.
* Another man on internet suggests Gomez has a release clause on his contract. Let say....3.5m.
* Deal goes ahead undisclosed.
* Lazy journos trawl internet for figures and related news and release article saying it's for 3.5m and likely he'll go on loan to Derby.
Was really looking forward to seeing a him grow as a CB next season with back line of Henderson, Solly, Gomez, Another, Wiggins.
The #madeincharlton stuff really don't mean anything to me to be honest anymore.
- If they let him play for Charlton there's a danger he may think of himself as a Charlton player rather than a Liverpool player on loan to another club.
- If he goes to Derby, or elsewhere, he'll learn different things from working with a different manager and different coaches.
- If he goes to Derby, or elsewhere, he'll learn different things from working alongside different defenders.
- It's a chance to test how he responds to being in a different situation. How long does it take him to fit into a new team rather than just carrying on in the same situation?
- It's a lot easier for their coaches/scouts to watch him and track his progress from Derby than London, and easier for him if he has to go back to Liverpool.
Adding all that lot up, it's a no brainer really. If I was Brendan Rogers, there's no way he'd be coming back to Charlton.
The bottom line is we have the money and Liverpool will have no say in how we spend it and will see none of the benefit from that spend. Liverpool have the player and will decide where he plays. There's no reason to think that Charlton would get the benefit of they either.
In Olly we trust !