Having been M. Duchatelet's most vocal supporter in internetland (nothing wrong with that btw), for the last year, as soon as a bit of organised movement against is in the pipeline, you are now very vocally against M. Duchatelet, his approach and his regime ?
Going back to the OP, I don't really disagree with any of it. Sure RD has done some good things in the last 12 months. However, it's all the other stuff he has also done/not done is where most people take issue & those things have been listed hundreds of times. I'd like to support RD if I thought his plans were good for Charlton.
Going back to the OP, I don't really disagree with any of it. Sure RD has done some good things in the last 12 months. However, it's all the other stuff he has also done/not done is where most people take issue & those things have been listed hundreds of times. I'd like to support RD if I thought his plans were good for Charlton.
Can someone please tell me WHAT RD'S PLANS ARE ?
Buy cheap (or develop youngsters) and sell for a profit. Use the network to get best (and most profit) out of assets. It is a simple factory business model. it is one that has been used by clubs in the lower leagues to some extent, but the closer you get to the top, the more often you pay a premium. We have been struggling because RD has avoided those premium championship prices.
Ive heard this said a lot but I cant see the profit in it. How much do we lose per year...... 5mil?? At our level that is at least two players per season just to break even
Ive heard this said a lot but I cant see the profit in it. How much do we lose per year...... 5mil?? At our level that is at least two players per season just to break even
That is why the model is flawed. His hope of FFP bringing the costs down has been taken away so losses will continue at the current rate or more. The new TV rights money will probably mean an increase in the losses, unless someone makes a brave decision to say a significant part of the money goes into other things than player wages. He probably is hoping to get to Premier because, although the running costs are not much better than in Championship, you can sell the club for significantly more, so gets a better return. As far as I can see, it is all about profit and loss and little about football.
and key phrase in video above is "leverage more from home grown players" Develop and then sell.
Like we and most clubs have been doing for years. At least he is honest enough to tell us straight. And you all call for more communication ..... Truth, YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH
Generally though @Taxi_Lad it's your own players that you sell, whether because they are surplus to your own requirements or because the money can be used to replace them with equal/better options, or otherwise used for the betterment of the team or the club as a whole. In this instance it seems that all teams (certainly Charlton, and it seems Liege as well) are selling the players - or rather, having them sold, then having the gaps plugged with purely makeshift options to cover the gaps.
When Tottenham sold Bale, they invested the money back into the team. When Southampton lost their best players, they invested sensibly to replace them. At Charlton, we sold players - and never bothered replacing them adequately. Kermorgant was sold and the closest we ever came to replacing him was Obika on loan. RD saved himself some dosh by unloading Reza over here, but it's not simply a question of 'striker goes out, one comes in' - we've not had that fulcrum point at any point since. We've had Church, Sordell, Vetokele, Watt, all of them adequate at least at this level but not one of them can do the job Kermorgant did on the pitch because they don't have that ability and physical power that he did.
There's no continuity. No team in the network seems to be benefitting as a football team from the business being done, but that money has to be going somewhere. Asking where that is seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Like we and most clubs have been doing for years. At least he is honest enough to tell us straight. And you all call for more communication ..... Truth, YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH
That is true to some extent but I think RD's approach is different. But most clubs do it to balance the books rather than it being the purpose of the club (network). I think that is the reason why RD is now in the football business. He thinks that he can turn a profit. I have no problem with that if, on the pitch, we succeed and also keep our community links, which are, in my mind, important for the Charlton brand.
One of the problems with the RD approach is that players that you can get a good return on come along occasionally rather than regularly, and it also more luck than judgement that a player of that quality ends up at a particular club, whether it is joining as a youth because of support, locality, or money. So for us to have a constant stream of players we can sell for a profit is unlikely. If he can achieve it, he has done very well, but I think it is not achievable. There are too many things outside of his control for him to get the returns I think he hopes for.
Like we and most clubs have been doing for years. At least he is honest enough to tell us straight. And you all call for more communication ..... Truth, YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH
So we get in your Taxi and you take us nowhere. There is no journey, Brentford are still 6th and without paying a fortune, Is not a chance of the prem and all that money worth a bit more investment in the team? I don't like the term he's ripping the heart from our club, but he's does not want us to have any dreams of success either ?
when i was a salesman you were selling a dream, you make people feel they must upgrade to something better or they will miss out.
If i get in Roland's taxi will i be taken for a ride ?
Generally though @Taxi_Lad it's your own players that you sell, whether because they are surplus to your own requirements or because the money can be used to replace them with equal/better options, or otherwise used for the betterment of the team or the club as a whole. In this instance it seems that all teams (certainly Charlton, and it seems Liege as well) are selling the players - or rather, having them sold, then having the gaps plugged with purely makeshift options to cover the gaps.
When Tottenham sold Bale, they invested the money back into the team. When Southampton lost their best players, they invested sensibly to replace them. At Charlton, we sold players - and never bothered replacing them adequately. Kermorgant was sold and the closest we ever came to replacing him was Obika on loan. RD saved himself some dosh by unloading Reza over here, but it's not simply a question of 'striker goes out, one comes in' - we've not had that fulcrum point at any point since. We've had Church, Sordell, Vetokele, Watt, all of them adequate at least at this level but not one of them can do the job Kermorgant did on the pitch because they don't have that ability and physical power that he did.
There's no continuity. No team in the network seems to be benefitting as a football team from the business being done, but that money has to be going somewhere. Asking where that is seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Vetokele is younger and cost a lot more than YK. A different sort of striker and I'd love to have had than YK alongside Vetekele, but last season we were hardly playing well when YK was in the team.
Generally though @Taxi_Lad it's your own players that you sell, whether because they are surplus to your own requirements or because the money can be used to replace them with equal/better options, or otherwise used for the betterment of the team or the club as a whole. In this instance it seems that all teams (certainly Charlton, and it seems Liege as well) are selling the players - or rather, having them sold, then having the gaps plugged with purely makeshift options to cover the gaps.
When Tottenham sold Bale, they invested the money back into the team. When Southampton lost their best players, they invested sensibly to replace them. At Charlton, we sold players - and never bothered replacing them adequately. Kermorgant was sold and the closest we ever came to replacing him was Obika on loan. RD saved himself some dosh by unloading Reza over here, but it's not simply a question of 'striker goes out, one comes in' - we've not had that fulcrum point at any point since. We've had Church, Sordell, Vetokele, Watt, all of them adequate at least at this level but not one of them can do the job Kermorgant did on the pitch because they don't have that ability and physical power that he did.
There's no continuity. No team in the network seems to be benefitting as a football team from the business being done, but that money has to be going somewhere. Asking where that is seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Vetokele is younger and cost a lot more than YK. A different sort of striker and I'd love to have had than YK alongside Vetekele, but last season we were hardly playing well when YK was in the team.
Agreed, but the point being up front we've had Vetokele, Watt, Sordell, Church, Reza and Obika, even Harriott and Bulot who are both wingers by trade, not one of which can replicate the kind of hold-up role Kermorgant could, nor do they have the presence to outmuscle and outfight seven foot lunks at the back. They do have other strengths, of course, and we don't need to play that way every time, but as it stands, we can't - at all, and haven't even had the option for over a year now. All those times we've resorted to long ball/defend from the front football would be far more effective if the ball would actually stick up the other end instead of whizzing straight back down our throats.
Hopefully Igor and Tony's partnership is only going to bloom but if one gets injured/loses form we have to turn to Harriott (a winger), Ahearne-Grant (whose just a callow youth) or Church (who is Church.) And that's totally down to a lack of foresight by RD, as I can't see Riga, Peeters and Luzon all ignoring the fact we clearly lack power/size up front but get fobbed off with yet more ball-to-feet runners instead.
Generally though @Taxi_Lad it's your own players that you sell, whether because they are surplus to your own requirements or because the money can be used to replace them with equal/better options, or otherwise used for the betterment of the team or the club as a whole. In this instance it seems that all teams (certainly Charlton, and it seems Liege as well) are selling the players - or rather, having them sold, then having the gaps plugged with purely makeshift options to cover the gaps.
When Tottenham sold Bale, they invested the money back into the team. When Southampton lost their best players, they invested sensibly to replace them. At Charlton, we sold players - and never bothered replacing them adequately. Kermorgant was sold and the closest we ever came to replacing him was Obika on loan. RD saved himself some dosh by unloading Reza over here, but it's not simply a question of 'striker goes out, one comes in' - we've not had that fulcrum point at any point since. We've had Church, Sordell, Vetokele, Watt, all of them adequate at least at this level but not one of them can do the job Kermorgant did on the pitch because they don't have that ability and physical power that he did.
There's no continuity. No team in the network seems to be benefitting as a football team from the business being done, but that money has to be going somewhere. Asking where that is seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Vetokele is younger and cost a lot more than YK. A different sort of striker and I'd love to have had than YK alongside Vetekele, but last season we were hardly playing well when YK was in the team.
And we were hardly playing well when we got relegated from the Prem with Darren Bent in the team .... Doesn't mean you don't wanna keep the good players
@thenewbie I don't think we can measure ourselves against the spuds & saints. They are top end premier league. Most clubs sell to balance the books and this what RD is planning too. We have in the past usually sold to survive rather than merely balance the books and consequently players have not left for their true value. I still don't see it being a moneymaker though. Just to balance the books we need to sell a Shelvey, a Jenkinson & a Poyet per season. That's a tall order for any academy
@thenewbie I don't think we can measure ourselves against the spuds & saints. They are top end premier league. Most clubs sell to balance the books and this what RD is planning too. We have in the past usually sold to survive rather than merely balance the books and consequently players have not left for their true value. I still don't see it being a moneymaker though. Just to balance the books we need to sell a Shelvey, a Jenkinson & a Poyet per season. That's a tall order for any academy
Agreed, but that's the problem I have with the RD model and I doubt I am alone in that. It's NOT a profitable approach, yet all along the most we've got about RD's plan is that he intends to try and run the club/network at a profit to prove it can be done - only with the FFP being discarded, it can't, or at least not this way. So what is he up to? No-one knows. My fear is, that includes Duchatalet himself.
Listening to that first interview isn't it fair to ask what has gone wrong, because would anyone really not feel optimistic after hearing that, I was? Either he is an absolute liar or he has made some serious miscalculations. I want to believe I can give him the benefit of the doubt for a little longer.
Rather than write RD off without a second thought I want to hear an admission that the vision has become a bad dream and an explanation from RD of what he has done wrong. Only if the club admits there have been mistakes can there be any early repair of relations with fans. Even if he can't give exact details to protect confidences, there has got to be an admission that management has got a lot wrong and has learnt lessons it intends to take on board.
You could use that interview, dissect it, highlight certain ambitions stated and compare it to actions taken, and ask for a comment. Wouldn't even need a meeting with RD, just a recorded response from RD.
It doesn't matter that there have been mistakes, we know there have been mistakes, we just need to know RD accepts he has made mistakes. If he doesn't, we are entitled to know what makes the current instability justifiable and why fans should not be troubled.
I will not be going to the meeting shouting for Roly out, I want every effort and pressure put on RD to engage and show some respect to the fans and give some explanations. Saying it's been tried and it doesn't work is not a reason for giving up on a perfectly valid objective. I hope the outcome of the meeting and subsequent actions provides an answer to how we apply enough pressure that we cannot be ignored.
If RD says everything is on track and this is how it is, (as hinted by KM) then at least we know where we stand and at least the "not knowing" feeling will be ended and he and the management team should expect the abuse that will come their way if the success being targeted by RD according to his interview isn't progressing.
Out of the youngsters the only one who we may get say 5 million for would be Gomez, and that would be in a years time if he can get more games under his belt and keeps progressing. Shelvey, Jenkinson, and Poyet we got next to nothing for, more down to Tj and Slater and not Roland. The point is we would accept the transfer if we were still treading water in the champ or even worse had been relegated.
As we speak most of our academy won't make the 1st team of a championship side so the value is minimal.( Aherne-grant at 17 has a good chance)
Sounds like we got about 2 million when Yann, Stevens and Michael Smith all left for a fee. plus they then let Hamer and Morrison go because it seems they wanted to get the wages off the books. Ben was still number 1 when he left plus Morrison could have played as soon as Bikey lost form.
Remember Henderson was only bought near to the beginning of this season when in pre season Pope still had moments of uncertainty, which came to fruition in a couple of home games.
I love to hear an alternative view, but Roland because he has never had to deal with the public in his business empire, thought he would be clever and put a 30 year old Female as his CEO. can't really see how she was qualified for the job. after being pleasant to every one at first, has she not been found out ?
You must not get caught offside with the fans, or like being on CL you will keep getting flagged.
I was heartened to see that Katrien now seems to have an intuitive grasp of the fundamentals of football and has listened to the fans at last. Her recent pronouncements at a Q and A at the Valley confirm what we have all been clamouring for........
£1 million pounds on Air conditioning and ventilation and a new screen!
How often have we heard chant echoing around the Valley demanding new ventilation!
I was happy to see the first chink in Roland's armour of non communication, with the PR stunt around Katrien and the young lad. It means that there is at least one person around who understands that they need to do something to fight the dreadful negativity surrounding the Club and it's supporters.
I wait to see it for myself, but reports on last nights meeting suggests that Katrien repeated the basic message of doing it his way and tough if we don't like it.
I wait to see it for myself, but reports on last nights meeting suggests that Katrien repeated the basic message of doing it his way and tough if we don't like it.
And that there will be no comms with RD, only with KM and that will be via the Fans' Forum.
Comments
However, it's all the other stuff he has also done/not done is where most people take issue & those things have been listed hundreds of times.
I'd like to support RD if I thought his plans were good for Charlton.
Can someone please tell me WHAT RD'S PLANS ARE ?
He just wants to buy & sell players ? That's what I think & that's the problem.
Liege were doing well so he sells 5 of their better players and destroys the team.
No ambition for success for his clubs, he just wants to wheel & deal !
and key phrase in video above is "leverage more from home grown players" Develop and then sell.
When Tottenham sold Bale, they invested the money back into the team. When Southampton lost their best players, they invested sensibly to replace them. At Charlton, we sold players - and never bothered replacing them adequately. Kermorgant was sold and the closest we ever came to replacing him was Obika on loan. RD saved himself some dosh by unloading Reza over here, but it's not simply a question of 'striker goes out, one comes in' - we've not had that fulcrum point at any point since. We've had Church, Sordell, Vetokele, Watt, all of them adequate at least at this level but not one of them can do the job Kermorgant did on the pitch because they don't have that ability and physical power that he did.
There's no continuity. No team in the network seems to be benefitting as a football team from the business being done, but that money has to be going somewhere. Asking where that is seems perfectly reasonable to me.
One of the problems with the RD approach is that players that you can get a good return on come along occasionally rather than regularly, and it also more luck than judgement that a player of that quality ends up at a particular club, whether it is joining as a youth because of support, locality, or money. So for us to have a constant stream of players we can sell for a profit is unlikely. If he can achieve it, he has done very well, but I think it is not achievable. There are too many things outside of his control for him to get the returns I think he hopes for.
There is no journey, Brentford are still 6th and without paying a fortune,
Is not a chance of the prem and all that money worth a bit more investment in the team?
I don't like the term he's ripping the heart from our club, but he's does not want us to have any dreams of success either ?
when i was a salesman you were selling a dream, you make people feel they must upgrade to something better or they will miss out.
If i get in Roland's taxi will i be taken for a ride ?
Hopefully Igor and Tony's partnership is only going to bloom but if one gets injured/loses form we have to turn to Harriott (a winger), Ahearne-Grant (whose just a callow youth) or Church (who is Church.) And that's totally down to a lack of foresight by RD, as I can't see Riga, Peeters and Luzon all ignoring the fact we clearly lack power/size up front but get fobbed off with yet more ball-to-feet runners instead.
I still don't see it being a moneymaker though. Just to balance the books we need to sell a Shelvey, a Jenkinson & a Poyet per season. That's a tall order for any academy
Rather than write RD off without a second thought I want to hear an admission that the vision has become a bad dream and an explanation from RD of what he has done wrong. Only if the club admits there have been mistakes can there be any early repair of relations with fans. Even if he can't give exact details to protect confidences, there has got to be an admission that management has got a lot wrong and has learnt lessons it intends to take on board.
You could use that interview, dissect it, highlight certain ambitions stated and compare it to actions taken, and ask for a comment. Wouldn't even need a meeting with RD, just a recorded response from RD.
It doesn't matter that there have been mistakes, we know there have been mistakes, we just need to know RD accepts he has made mistakes. If he doesn't, we are entitled to know what makes the current instability justifiable and why fans should not be troubled.
I will not be going to the meeting shouting for Roly out, I want every effort and pressure put on RD to engage and show some respect to the fans and give some explanations. Saying it's been tried and it doesn't work is not a reason for giving up on a perfectly valid objective. I hope the outcome of the meeting and subsequent actions provides an answer to how we apply enough pressure that we cannot be ignored.
If RD says everything is on track and this is how it is, (as hinted by KM) then at least we know where we stand and at least the "not knowing" feeling will be ended and he and the management team should expect the abuse that will come their way if the success being targeted by RD according to his interview isn't progressing.
Out of the youngsters the only one who we may get say 5 million for would be Gomez, and that would be in a years time if he can get more games under his belt and keeps progressing. Shelvey, Jenkinson, and Poyet we got next to nothing for, more down to Tj and Slater and not Roland.
The point is we would accept the transfer if we were still treading water in the champ or even worse had been relegated.
As we speak most of our academy won't make the 1st team of a championship side so the value is minimal.( Aherne-grant at 17 has a good chance)
Sounds like we got about 2 million when Yann, Stevens and Michael Smith all left for a fee. plus they then let Hamer and Morrison go because it seems they wanted to get the wages off the books. Ben was still number 1 when he left plus Morrison could have played as soon as Bikey lost form.
Remember Henderson was only bought near to the beginning of this season when in pre season Pope still had moments of uncertainty, which came to fruition in a couple of home games.
I love to hear an alternative view, but Roland because he has never had to deal with the public in his business empire, thought he would be clever and put a 30 year old Female as his CEO. can't really see how she was qualified for the job.
after being pleasant to every one at first, has she not been found out ?
You must not get caught offside with the fans, or like being on CL you will keep getting flagged.
£1 million pounds on Air conditioning and ventilation and a new screen!
How often have we heard chant echoing around the Valley demanding new ventilation!
Katrien - It's the football dummy!