@To_Be_Franck I heartily agree wiith all you say. Most won't but they are generally in the 'hate the network/RD at all costs' camp. I've argued the same for weeks on various posts but haven't had the time to lay it out in full and respond to each post as you have. I also find it so draining. There is a plausible reason for most things RD has done but some just want to believe the worst.
Circumstance can dictate the decisions made and nobody in ther right mind will say RD hasn't got some badly wrong e.g. YK and communication issues, but i just don't buy the accusations levelled at him nor do i think this club is any less Charlton under him (unless you want to look at it that way)
All seductive arguments that any Charlton supporter with an ounce of optimism would wish to be true. All arguments I previuosly believed, all arguments I argued with passion and all utterly wrong.
Let us not delude ourselves that, inspite of yesterday's win, the fundamentals of the situation are the same. This is a man with only a vague (and flawed) master plan but bags of confidence in it. He has built up a disperate rag- tag of teams with apparently little interest in the clubs, football or fans.
Can there be a more dramatic illustration of the appalling lack of strategy, or care than our last year? We along with his staff, mangers and players have been lied to, manipulated and treated with utter contempt. This in precisely the sort of message we received from other clubs fans (which I chose to ignore). There is at least consistency in these elements of RD's behaviuor.
The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour; This club was, is, and will be in grave peril all the time RD owns us, or has an epiphany unique in his ten plus years of club ownership.
And still in business.
I understand that I am in the minority (on here anyway), and will be first to put my hands up should everyone's worse fears come to fruition. But I cannot, as much as this place tries, get myself as worked up as people on here.
Probably because you are an employee and not a Charlton supporter and so you don't feel it in the same way.
All seductive arguments that any Charlton supporter with an ounce of optimism would wish to be true. All arguments I previuosly believed, all arguments I argued with passion and all utterly wrong.
Let us not delude ourselves that, inspite of yesterday's win, the fundamentals of the situation are the same. This is a man with only a vague (and flawed) master plan but bags of confidence in it. He has built up a disperate rag- tag of teams with apparently little interest in the clubs, football or fans.
Can there be a more dramatic illustration of the appalling lack of strategy, or care than our last year? We along with his staff, mangers and players have been lied to, manipulated and treated with utter contempt. This in precisely the sort of message we received from other clubs fans (which I chose to ignore). There is at least consistency in these elements of RD's behaviuor.
The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour; This club was, is, and will be in grave peril all the time RD owns us, or has an epiphany unique in his ten plus years of club ownership.
And still in business.
I understand that I am in the minority (on here anyway), and will be first to put my hands up should everyone's worse fears come to fruition. But I cannot, as much as this place tries, get myself as worked up as people on here.
Probably because you are an employee and not a Charlton supporter and so you don't feel it in the same way.
a prime example of the paranoia on here, There is no reasoning with that i'm afraid
All seductive arguments that any Charlton supporter with an ounce of optimism would wish to be true. All arguments I previuosly believed, all arguments I argued with passion and all utterly wrong.
Let us not delude ourselves that, inspite of yesterday's win, the fundamentals of the situation are the same. This is a man with only a vague (and flawed) master plan but bags of confidence in it. He has built up a disperate rag- tag of teams with apparently little interest in the clubs, football or fans.
Can there be a more dramatic illustration of the appalling lack of strategy, or care than our last year? We along with his staff, mangers and players have been lied to, manipulated and treated with utter contempt. This in precisely the sort of message we received from other clubs fans (which I chose to ignore). There is at least consistency in these elements of RD's behaviuor.
The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour; This club was, is, and will be in grave peril all the time RD owns us, or has an epiphany unique in his ten plus years of club ownership.
And still in business.
I understand that I am in the minority (on here anyway), and will be first to put my hands up should everyone's worse fears come to fruition. But I cannot, as much as this place tries, get myself as worked up as people on here.
Probably because you are an employee and not a Charlton supporter and so you don't feel it in the same way.
Not a supporter? Good one! Better stop going to matches then like a lot of our 'supporters' have, or are at least threatening.
Employee? Afraid not (although I did apply for a job there about 12 months ago) - Can you imagine how much overtime I'd be on for spending my Sunday trying to defend my boss....yet another way that my gaffer is bleeding this club dry.
For CL to have credibility it needs to reflect all the views of supporters and critics.
On this Forum and on Wednesday People should have the bottle to put their views across whether they are in the majority or not.
To _be_ Franck your Views are welcome. when i preach from the soapbox end i don't just want to have likes, or LOL (are they LOL at me or with me ?) The opposite view if articulated is worth reading or listening to then i decide i was right anyway.
Roland got off on the wrong foot with me when right from the beginning he sells the talisman of the team and takes a year to replace him with a player who could be a bigger star.(Both Igor and Tony are great but not true Target men)
my main skills in life have been working out people i encounter, in work or play, I have only been right 95% of the time, the other 5% were Females when My judgement got impaired by visual sights !
My view of Roland Duchatelet after watching 1905 on youtube was of a shy,cold, introverted man with no charm yet his bank balance tells me he knows how to broker a deal. Have heard since (jimmy Stone) that a lot had to be cut ? makes you wonder what ?
Can see why he made Katrien CEO but she is finding it hard to carrying out the wishes of a man who will never care or listen to the supporters of his football clubs.
i also didn't like to be told that the idea of Wednesday was to get Roland out, At this stage we should try to force them to acknowledge that we are different to some other clubs because of our history of thinking outside the box, (the Valley party)
Thou "Roland" out could be an option only down the line if he keeps selling our best players like he did at Standard when he made a mint.
Actually it may be only number 7 that is factual. Every one of the other points are open to debate.
The reasonings may be up for debate, but the main parts of the points, I would say are pretty accurate;
1) Did RD take over a struggling club and sack the manager? 2) Did RD sell YK? 3) Did RD bring in a number of players? 4) Did we sign players from outside of the network in the summer? 5) Are the current network players better than the last lot? 6) Did RD bring in another GK?
7) you agree
8) Which squad members have not had game time under GL? 9) Did we beat a team in contention for the playoffs?
1) Yes. RD picked up a club for sale (no one forced him). Chris Powell was not supported with decent signings, was hung out to dry and sacked. 2) Yes. To fund replacement of the pitch 3) Yes. Most of them inadequate. Riga kept Charlton up by playing mostly non network players. 4) Yes but the squad strength was clearly thin and inadequate. 5) That is hugely debatable. 6) Yes. Henderson is a good goalkeeper, but is injury prone, not having a proper decent experienced back up was a huge error of judgement. 9) The victory against Brentford is welcome but should not be used to spin and rose tint on what has gone on before and what may happen in the future.
Actually it may be only number 7 that is factual. Every one of the other points are open to debate.
The reasonings may be up for debate, but the main parts of the points, I would say are pretty accurate;
1) Did RD take over a struggling club and sack the manager? 2) Did RD sell YK? 3) Did RD bring in a number of players? 4) Did we sign players from outside of the network in the summer? 5) Are the current network players better than the last lot? 6) Did RD bring in another GK?
7) you agree
8) Which squad members have not had game time under GL? 9) Did we beat a team in contention for the playoffs?
1) Yes. RD picked up a club for sale (no one forced him). Chris Powell was not supported with decent signings, was hung out to dry and sacked. 2) Yes. To fund replacement of the pitch 3) Yes. Most of them inadequate. Riga kept Charlton up by playing mostly non network players. 4) Yes but the squad strength was clearly thin and inadequate. 5) That is hugely debatable. 6) Yes. Henderson is a good goalkeeper, but is injury prone, not having a proper decent experienced back up was a huge error of judgement. 9) The victory against Brentford is welcome but should not be used to spin and rose tint on what has gone on before and what may happen in the future.
All seductive arguments that any Charlton supporter with an ounce of optimism would wish to be true. All arguments I previuosly believed, all arguments I argued with passion and all utterly wrong.
Let us not delude ourselves that, inspite of yesterday's win, the fundamentals of the situation are the same. This is a man with only a vague (and flawed) master plan but bags of confidence in it. He has built up a disperate rag- tag of teams with apparently little interest in the clubs, football or fans.
Can there be a more dramatic illustration of the appalling lack of strategy, or care than our last year? We along with his staff, mangers and players have been lied to, manipulated and treated with utter contempt. This in precisely the sort of message we received from other clubs fans (which I chose to ignore). There is at least consistency in these elements of RD's behaviuor.
The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour; This club was, is, and will be in grave peril all the time RD owns us, or has an epiphany unique in his ten plus years of club ownership.
And still in business.
I understand that I am in the minority (on here anyway), and will be first to put my hands up should everyone's worse fears come to fruition. But I cannot, as much as this place tries, get myself as worked up as people on here.
Probably because you are an employee and not a Charlton supporter and so you don't feel it in the same way.
Actually it may be only number 7 that is factual. Every one of the other points are open to debate.
The reasonings may be up for debate, but the main parts of the points, I would say are pretty accurate;
1) Did RD take over a struggling club and sack the manager? 2) Did RD sell YK? 3) Did RD bring in a number of players? 4) Did we sign players from outside of the network in the summer? 5) Are the current network players better than the last lot? 6) Did RD bring in another GK?
7) you agree
8) Which squad members have not had game time under GL? 9) Did we beat a team in contention for the playoffs?
1) Yes. RD picked up a club for sale (no one forced him). Chris Powell was not supported with decent signings, was hung out to dry and sacked. 2) Yes. To fund replacement of the pitch 3) Yes. Most of them inadequate. Riga kept Charlton up by playing mostly non network players. 4) Yes but the squad strength was clearly thin and inadequate. 5) That is hugely debatable. 6) Yes. Henderson is a good goalkeeper, but is injury prone, not having a proper decent experienced back up was a huge error of judgement. 9) The victory against Brentford is welcome but should not be used to spin and rose tint on what has gone on before and what may happen in the future.
You are missing the point.
I don't think so. I am just not accepting the rose tinted spin and rewriting of what has been a succession of incompetent and poor footballing decisions. I thought that this may happen. One decent result used to skate over all that has gone before.
Calling those with concerns as panic'ers is just disrespectful to long standing supporters of many years.
Question: Do you think that the squad as starting out this season was adequate for whole season ? Do you think that any errors of judgement have been made at all this season ?
All seductive arguments that any Charlton supporter with an ounce of optimism would wish to be true. All arguments I previuosly believed, all arguments I argued with passion and all utterly wrong.
Let us not delude ourselves that, inspite of yesterday's win, the fundamentals of the situation are the same. This is a man with only a vague (and flawed) master plan but bags of confidence in it. He has built up a disperate rag- tag of teams with apparently little interest in the clubs, football or fans.
Can there be a more dramatic illustration of the appalling lack of strategy, or care than our last year? We along with his staff, mangers and players have been lied to, manipulated and treated with utter contempt. This in precisely the sort of message we received from other clubs fans (which I chose to ignore). There is at least consistency in these elements of RD's behaviuor.
The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour; This club was, is, and will be in grave peril all the time RD owns us, or has an epiphany unique in his ten plus years of club ownership.
And still in business.
I understand that I am in the minority (on here anyway), and will be first to put my hands up should everyone's worse fears come to fruition. But I cannot, as much as this place tries, get myself as worked up as people on here.
Probably because you are an employee and not a Charlton supporter and so you don't feel it in the same way.
That's a silly post that
Franck can't get that worked up things. Posts a big article rose tinted spinning of everything that ignores how badly things have been managed. Then spends all afternoon countering posts that disagreed. I don't think it is a silly observation. Thanks anyway AFKA.
Actually it may be only number 7 that is factual. Every one of the other points are open to debate.
The reasonings may be up for debate, but the main parts of the points, I would say are pretty accurate;
1) Did RD take over a struggling club and sack the manager? 2) Did RD sell YK? 3) Did RD bring in a number of players? 4) Did we sign players from outside of the network in the summer? 5) Are the current network players better than the last lot? 6) Did RD bring in another GK?
7) you agree
8) Which squad members have not had game time under GL? 9) Did we beat a team in contention for the playoffs?
1) Yes. RD picked up a club for sale (no one forced him). Chris Powell was not supported with decent signings, was hung out to dry and sacked. 2) Yes. To fund replacement of the pitch 3) Yes. Most of them inadequate. Riga kept Charlton up by playing mostly non network players. 4) Yes but the squad strength was clearly thin and inadequate. 5) That is hugely debatable. 6) Yes. Henderson is a good goalkeeper, but is injury prone, not having a proper decent experienced back up was a huge error of judgement. 9) The victory against Brentford is welcome but should not be used to spin and rose tint on what has gone on before and what may happen in the future.
You are missing the point.
I don't think so. I am just not accepting the rose tinted spin and rewriting of what has been a succession of incompetent and poor footballing decisions. I thought that this may happen. One decent result used to skate over all that has gone before.
Calling those with concerns as panic'ers is just disrespectful to long standing supporters of many years.
Question: Do you think that the squad as starting out this season was adequate for whole season ? Do you think that any errors of judgement have been made at all this season ?
Panicer's = disrespectful? those with rose tinted specs / 'employees' / 'non-supporters' = justified
Actually it may be only number 7 that is factual. Every one of the other points are open to debate.
The reasonings may be up for debate, but the main parts of the points, I would say are pretty accurate;
1) Did RD take over a struggling club and sack the manager? 2) Did RD sell YK? 3) Did RD bring in a number of players? 4) Did we sign players from outside of the network in the summer? 5) Are the current network players better than the last lot? 6) Did RD bring in another GK?
7) you agree
8) Which squad members have not had game time under GL? 9) Did we beat a team in contention for the playoffs?
1) Yes. RD picked up a club for sale (no one forced him). Chris Powell was not supported with decent signings, was hung out to dry and sacked. 2) Yes. To fund replacement of the pitch 3) Yes. Most of them inadequate. Riga kept Charlton up by playing mostly non network players. 4) Yes but the squad strength was clearly thin and inadequate. 5) That is hugely debatable. 6) Yes. Henderson is a good goalkeeper, but is injury prone, not having a proper decent experienced back up was a huge error of judgement. 9) The victory against Brentford is welcome but should not be used to spin and rose tint on what has gone on before and what may happen in the future.
You are missing the point.
I don't think so. I am just not accepting the rose tinted spin and rewriting of what has been a succession of incompetent and poor footballing decisions. I thought that this may happen. One decent result used to skate over all that has gone before.
Calling those with concerns as panic'ers is just disrespectful to long standing supporters of many years.
Question: Do you think that the squad as starting out this season was adequate for whole season ? Do you think that any errors of judgement have been made at all this season ?
Dismissing the opinions of supporters that do not share the same views as you is disrespectful as well.
All seductive arguments that any Charlton supporter with an ounce of optimism would wish to be true. All arguments I previuosly believed, all arguments I argued with passion and all utterly wrong.
Let us not delude ourselves that, inspite of yesterday's win, the fundamentals of the situation are the same. This is a man with only a vague (and flawed) master plan but bags of confidence in it. He has built up a disperate rag- tag of teams with apparently little interest in the clubs, football or fans.
Can there be a more dramatic illustration of the appalling lack of strategy, or care than our last year? We along with his staff, mangers and players have been lied to, manipulated and treated with utter contempt. This in precisely the sort of message we received from other clubs fans (which I chose to ignore). There is at least consistency in these elements of RD's behaviuor.
The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour; This club was, is, and will be in grave peril all the time RD owns us, or has an epiphany unique in his ten plus years of club ownership.
And still in business.
I understand that I am in the minority (on here anyway), and will be first to put my hands up should everyone's worse fears come to fruition. But I cannot, as much as this place tries, get myself as worked up as people on here.
Probably because you are an employee and not a Charlton supporter and so you don't feel it in the same way.
That's a silly post that
It is an observation on what I have read from Francks comments.
Actually it may be only number 7 that is factual. Every one of the other points are open to debate.
The reasonings may be up for debate, but the main parts of the points, I would say are pretty accurate;
1) Did RD take over a struggling club and sack the manager? 2) Did RD sell YK? 3) Did RD bring in a number of players? 4) Did we sign players from outside of the network in the summer? 5) Are the current network players better than the last lot? 6) Did RD bring in another GK?
7) you agree
8) Which squad members have not had game time under GL? 9) Did we beat a team in contention for the playoffs?
1) Yes. RD picked up a club for sale (no one forced him). Chris Powell was not supported with decent signings, was hung out to dry and sacked. 2) Yes. To fund replacement of the pitch 3) Yes. Most of them inadequate. Riga kept Charlton up by playing mostly non network players. 4) Yes but the squad strength was clearly thin and inadequate. 5) That is hugely debatable. 6) Yes. Henderson is a good goalkeeper, but is injury prone, not having a proper decent experienced back up was a huge error of judgement. 9) The victory against Brentford is welcome but should not be used to spin and rose tint on what has gone on before and what may happen in the future.
You are missing the point.
I don't think so. I am just not accepting the rose tinted spin and rewriting of what has been a succession of incompetent and poor footballing decisions. I thought that this may happen. One decent result used to skate over all that has gone before.
Calling those with concerns as panic'ers is just disrespectful to long standing supporters of many years.
Question: Do you think that the squad as starting out this season was adequate for whole season ? Do you think that any errors of judgement have been made at all this season ?
Dismissing the opinions of supporters that do not share the same views as you is disrespectful as well.
Disagreeing though eh not dismissing. Its my opinion. Apologies to all those that want to think that everything is rosey in the garden.
All seductive arguments that any Charlton supporter with an ounce of optimism would wish to be true. All arguments I previuosly believed, all arguments I argued with passion and all utterly wrong.
Let us not delude ourselves that, inspite of yesterday's win, the fundamentals of the situation are the same. This is a man with only a vague (and flawed) master plan but bags of confidence in it. He has built up a disperate rag- tag of teams with apparently little interest in the clubs, football or fans.
Can there be a more dramatic illustration of the appalling lack of strategy, or care than our last year? We along with his staff, mangers and players have been lied to, manipulated and treated with utter contempt. This in precisely the sort of message we received from other clubs fans (which I chose to ignore). There is at least consistency in these elements of RD's behaviuor.
The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour; This club was, is, and will be in grave peril all the time RD owns us, or has an epiphany unique in his ten plus years of club ownership.
And still in business.
I understand that I am in the minority (on here anyway), and will be first to put my hands up should everyone's worse fears come to fruition. But I cannot, as much as this place tries, get myself as worked up as people on here.
Probably because you are an employee and not a Charlton supporter and so you don't feel it in the same way.
That's a silly post that
Franck can't get that worked up things. Posts a big article rose tinted spinning of everything that ignores how badly things have been managed. Then spends all afternoon countering posts that disagreed. I don't think it is a silly observation. Thanks anyway AFKA.
Ignoring how badly things have been managed? - No I have clearly said that things could have been handled differently. Countering posts, portraying my opinions etc What a bloody boring forum if no one spoke.
Who is getting worked up? It would appear to me that the steam will come bursting out of your ears before mine
Actually it may be only number 7 that is factual. Every one of the other points are open to debate.
The reasonings may be up for debate, but the main parts of the points, I would say are pretty accurate;
1) Did RD take over a struggling club and sack the manager? 2) Did RD sell YK? 3) Did RD bring in a number of players? 4) Did we sign players from outside of the network in the summer? 5) Are the current network players better than the last lot? 6) Did RD bring in another GK?
7) you agree
8) Which squad members have not had game time under GL? 9) Did we beat a team in contention for the playoffs?
1) Yes. RD picked up a club for sale (no one forced him). Chris Powell was not supported with decent signings, was hung out to dry and sacked. 2) Yes. To fund replacement of the pitch 3) Yes. Most of them inadequate. Riga kept Charlton up by playing mostly non network players. 4) Yes but the squad strength was clearly thin and inadequate. 5) That is hugely debatable. 6) Yes. Henderson is a good goalkeeper, but is injury prone, not having a proper decent experienced back up was a huge error of judgement. 9) The victory against Brentford is welcome but should not be used to spin and rose tint on what has gone on before and what may happen in the future.
You are missing the point.
I don't think so. I am just not accepting the rose tinted spin and rewriting of what has been a succession of incompetent and poor footballing decisions. I thought that this may happen. One decent result used to skate over all that has gone before.
Calling those with concerns as panic'ers is just disrespectful to long standing supporters of many years.
Question: Do you think that the squad as starting out this season was adequate for whole season ? Do you think that any errors of judgement have been made at all this season ?
Dismissing the opinions of supporters that do not share the same views as you is disrespectful as well.
Disagreeing though eh not dismissing. Its my opinion. Apologies to all those that want to think that everything is rosey in the garden.
I rest my case, it is your opinion that any one not agreeing with you wears rose tinted specs. That is totally not the case, its more that we don't agree with the paranoia!
@Essex_Al .... I'll see you at the meeting on Wednesday, Roland has allowed me to leave early (he's a good egg). Did you get the 'I heart RD' tshirts printed?
All seductive arguments that any Charlton supporter with an ounce of optimism would wish to be true. All arguments I previuosly believed, all arguments I argued with passion and all utterly wrong.
Let us not delude ourselves that, inspite of yesterday's win, the fundamentals of the situation are the same. This is a man with only a vague (and flawed) master plan but bags of confidence in it. He has built up a disperate rag- tag of teams with apparently little interest in the clubs, football or fans.
Can there be a more dramatic illustration of the appalling lack of strategy, or care than our last year? We along with his staff, mangers and players have been lied to, manipulated and treated with utter contempt. This in precisely the sort of message we received from other clubs fans (which I chose to ignore). There is at least consistency in these elements of RD's behaviuor.
The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour; This club was, is, and will be in grave peril all the time RD owns us, or has an epiphany unique in his ten plus years of club ownership.
And still in business.
I understand that I am in the minority (on here anyway), and will be first to put my hands up should everyone's worse fears come to fruition. But I cannot, as much as this place tries, get myself as worked up as people on here.
Probably because you are an employee and not a Charlton supporter and so you don't feel it in the same way.
That's a silly post that
Franck can't get that worked up things. Posts a big article rose tinted spinning of everything that ignores how badly things have been managed. Then spends all afternoon countering posts that disagreed. I don't think it is a silly observation. Thanks anyway AFKA.
Ignoring how badly things have been managed? - No I have clearly said that things could have been handled differently. Countering posts, portraying my opinions etc What a bloody boring forum if no one spoke.
Who is getting worked up? It would appear to me that the steam will come bursting out of your ears before mine
Whatever. I just went back to your long article. You say that things could have been handled differently but are not really picking out the things that could have been. From reading your article you feel that the management responses have been pretty much Ok. You don't really answer the question as to whether the squad depth was /is adequate for the season.
I know you are laid back and not worried about the future. Many Charlton supporters feel differently, having to suffer some really poor and dispiriting performances throughout the season.
Maybe we aren't giving RD enough credit. This may be an unpopular post, but worth considering. (before I get pulled up, I realise it is not strictly chronological)
1) RD takes over a financially buggered team which is struggling on the pitch, makes a change in management. 2) RD sells top striker due to age / alleged refusal to play / wage demands and dropping value. 3) RD brings in Network players to help with numbers.
Club survives and management admit some network players were not up to standard. (Necessary) improvements made to The Valley.
4) Players from outside of network brought in to replace those lost Vetokele, Gudmundsson, Bikey, Henderson (YK, Poyet, Dervite & Hamer) Not necessarily like for like replacements, but at least equal in (potential) quality.
5) Higher standard of Network players brought in to compliment 'permanent' squad members - TBH, GT (as you know I feel he was under rated), YB (admittedly fallen in our estimation, but was much admired at beginning of season), TW & FB.
6) GK suffers injury and 1st choice reserve takes a confidence hit. Player signed to replace first 2 keepers not good enough - Decent keeper shipped in from Network to help us through until SH return.
7) No win in 3 months, talk of player / management fallout - manager gets the sack and another one of RD's trusted 'advisors' brought in to settle the situation (as per Riga). 8) New manager gives majority of squad game time over 1st 3 (tough) games.
9) Settled team pick up first win Vs playoff contenders 3 - 0 with the players looking more 'together' than in recent months, and with 11 players playing in their correct positions (the only time this season I have seen this, except 2nd half Vs Norwich (which we won 2-1))
10) GT not quite cutting it in the Championship - shipped out of Network, no doubt with financial gain.
??11) Next summer, more additions from outside of network.??
We all know that RD has a large personal fortune, and would love for him to spend £5m on a player here, £4m on a player there, - but this is unrealistic. I still believe that RD DOES want us to be competitive, and would love for promotion (although this is not the be all and end all).
I still believe that the 'Network' can work, admittedly it would be more successful if the difference in standards between teams were greater.
I am still very much on the fence on this one. MS and TJ were not financially able to do any of the above, yet it is the Belgiums getting stick.
I apologise if I have my rose tinted specs on, or if my head is buried in the sand, but I am still not ready to panic over the future of 'my' Charlton
This has become:
The reasonings may be up for debate, but the main parts of the points, I would say are pretty accurate;
1) Did RD take over a struggling club and sack the manager? 2) Did RD sell YK? 3) Did RD bring in a number of players? 4) Did we sign players from outside of the network in the summer? 5) Are the current network players better than the last lot? 6) Did RD bring in another GK?
7) you agree
8) Which squad members have not had game time under GL? 9) Did we beat a team in contention for the playoffs? '
So to address the case that I was responding to your first post, not the edited version posted later:
1) 'Financially buggered', debateable as Roland wasn't the only game in town at the time. 2) 'RD sells top striker due to age / alleged refusal to play / wage demands and dropping value', debateable regarding the reasons you give for the sale. 3) 'RD brings in Network players to help with numbers', debateable because he may have brought in network players for other reasons. 4) 'Players from outside of network brought in to replace those lost Vetokele, Gudmundsson, Bikey, Henderson (YK, Poyet, Dervite & Hamer) Not necessarily like for like replacements, but at least equal in (potential) quality', debateable as to the reasons those players were brought in and opinion regarding quality. 5) 'Higher standard of Network players brought in to compliment 'permanent' squad members - TBH, GT (as you know I feel he was under rated), YB (admittedly fallen in our estimation, but was much admired at beginning of season), TW & FB' debateable as you make my point for me regarding Tucadean for a start. 6) 'GK suffers injury and 1st choice reserve takes a confidence hit. Player signed to replace first 2 keepers not good enough - Decent keeper shipped in from Network to help us through until SH return' debateable as regards Pope's confidence and whether Dimi is indeed 'decent'. 7) YUP 8) 'New manager gives majority of squad game time over 1st 3 (tough) games', debateable as to how many games the manager (head coach/Alex Ferguson?) has had. 9) 'Settled team pick up first win Vs playoff contenders 3 - 0 with the players looking more 'together' than in recent months, and with 11 players playing in their correct positions (the only time this season I have seen this, except 2nd half Vs Norwich (which we won 2-1))' You have a case here, but still debateable as to whether Buyens was part of this 'togetherness'.
So what you have declared to be factual earlier I see as open to question.
Actually it may be only number 7 that is factual. Every one of the other points are open to debate.
The reasonings may be up for debate, but the main parts of the points, I would say are pretty accurate;
1) Did RD take over a struggling club and sack the manager? 2) Did RD sell YK? 3) Did RD bring in a number of players? 4) Did we sign players from outside of the network in the summer? 5) Are the current network players better than the last lot? 6) Did RD bring in another GK?
7) you agree
8) Which squad members have not had game time under GL? 9) Did we beat a team in contention for the playoffs?
1) Yes. RD picked up a club for sale (no one forced him). Chris Powell was not supported with decent signings, was hung out to dry and sacked. 2) Yes. To fund replacement of the pitch 3) Yes. Most of them inadequate. Riga kept Charlton up by playing mostly non network players. 4) Yes but the squad strength was clearly thin and inadequate. 5) That is hugely debatable. 6) Yes. Henderson is a good goalkeeper, but is injury prone, not having a proper decent experienced back up was a huge error of judgement. 9) The victory against Brentford is welcome but should not be used to spin and rose tint on what has gone on before and what may happen in the future.
You are missing the point.
I don't think so. I am just not accepting the rose tinted spin and rewriting of what has been a succession of incompetent and poor footballing decisions. I thought that this may happen. One decent result used to skate over all that has gone before.
Calling those with concerns as panic'ers is just disrespectful to long standing supporters of many years.
Question: Do you think that the squad as starting out this season was adequate for whole season ? Do you think that any errors of judgement have been made at all this season ?
Dismissing the opinions of supporters that do not share the same views as you is disrespectful as well.
Disagreeing though eh not dismissing. Its my opinion. Apologies to all those that want to think that everything is rosey in the garden.
I rest my case, it is your opinion that any one not agreeing with you wears rose tinted specs. That is totally not the case, its more that we don't agree with the paranoia!
Posters have many a mixture of views, I don't think that everyone who doesn't agree with me has rose tinted spectacles. That is just too blunt.
Rest your case. Whatever. I think you are mixing up two different points re paranoia.
Are you suggesting that all those supporters with concerns for Charlton future / or questions Duchatlets footballing decision and strategy are paranoid ?
Franck may not be a network employee, though when you apply again next time Franck, this thread may be a useful link on the CV
The whole point of the article was to highlight that there are other potential reasons behind actual decisions which go against the general consensus on here that RD is destroying the club.
I believe that some of the reasonings behind the Anti-RD campaign are just as flawed / debateable
For me it all comes down to how Roly plans to make his money. If he wants to get us to the Premier League then even if we feel he's going about it the wrong way at least we all want the same thing. Either he's wrong, or 'we' are wrong but we'll find out eventually. If his plan is to make money by developing talent whose value is enhanced by Championship football, then at the very least he will need to make sure we stay in the Championship.
In terms of the RD mistakes highlighted in other posts, the big one is the selling/not replacing of Kermorgant. It's had the most emotional significance as well as the biggest impact on results. Had this mistake not been made, or had been since rectified, I wonder how important the other mistakes would now seem?
The whole point of the article was to highlight that there are other potential reasons behind actual decisions which go against the general consensus on here that RD is destroying the club.
I believe that some of the reasonings behind the Anti-RD campaign are just as flawed / debateable
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Decisions made may often be with good intentions but can bring disastrous results in any case.
Much of the reasoning against the Duchatelet footballing strategy may be incorrect but it appears due to the vacuum of information and communication. Charlton supporters are not specifically against Duchatelet and if he displayed a different approach and choose a different strategy would not object to him at the club.
A lot has changed in the Championship since Duchatelet has taken over. FFP controls have been significantly loosened and there is a massive injection of TV money at the top end. Being competitive within in the Championship will take some investment. It needs to be communicated, how the initial Duchatelet plan is to be adjusted to take in the changing circumstances.
(NB @To_Be_Franck Reasoning is plural already, doesn't need an 's' on the end)
The whole point of the article was to highlight that there are other potential reasons behind actual decisions which go against the general consensus on here that RD is destroying the club.
I believe that some of the reasonings behind the Anti-RD campaign are just as flawed / debateable
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Decisions made may often be with good intentions but can disastrous results in any case.
Much of the reasoning against the Duchatelet footballing strategy may be incorrect but it appears due to the vacuum of information and communication. Charlton supporters are not specifically against Duchatelet and if he displayed a different approach and choose a different strategy would not object to him at the club.
A lot has changed in the Championship since Duchatelet has taken over. FFP controls have been significantly loosened and there is a massive injection of TV money at the top end. Being competitive within in the Championship will take some investment. It needs to be communicated, how the initial Duchatelet plan is to be adjusted to take in the changing circumstances.
(NB Reasoning is plural already, doesn't need an 's' on the end)
I don't disagree with that at all, but I do think some posters on here have blurred the lines between wanting RD out, and wanting better comms. FFP have certainly messed with RD's original masterplan.
Oh, and thanks for the English lesson, I will be sure to pass it on to my fellow Belgians
The whole point of the article was to highlight that there are other potential reasons behind actual decisions which go against the general consensus on here that RD is destroying the club.
I believe that some of the reasonings behind the Anti-RD campaign are just as flawed / debateable
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Decisions made may often be with good intentions but can disastrous results in any case.
Much of the reasoning against the Duchatelet footballing strategy may be incorrect but it appears due to the vacuum of information and communication. Charlton supporters are not specifically against Duchatelet and if he displayed a different approach and choose a different strategy would not object to him at the club.
A lot has changed in the Championship since Duchatelet has taken over. FFP controls have been significantly loosened and there is a massive injection of TV money at the top end. Being competitive within in the Championship will take some investment. It needs to be communicated, how the initial Duchatelet plan is to be adjusted to take in the changing circumstances.
(NB Reasoning is plural already, doesn't need an 's' on the end)
I don't disagree with that at all, but I do think some posters on here have blurred the lines between wanting RD out, and wanting better comms. FFP have certainly messed with RD's original masterplan.
Oh, and thanks for the English lesson, I will be sure to pass it on to my fellow Belgians
I think that many supporters wanting Duchatelet out is due to a perception that he is inflexible in his approach. I also think that some management communication that understanding of the English Market and London local conditions may be different to what was anticipated would be helpful.
Re: English. Glad to be of help there Franck.
I know that Dutch Universities teach in English. I had a Dutch girlfriend in my younger days and she spoke and wrote very good English. Not sure whether Belgian Universities teach in English or not. Going to a Dutch University (or Belgium if they teach in English) is a smart move as it is much cheaper due to the smaller fees. The cost of living can be cheaper as well.
I also think that writing and speaking as English as a second language can result in the communication being less subtle then intended. Any message can come accross as very blunt. I think that the network suffers with that.
The whole point of the article was to highlight that there are other potential reasons behind actual decisions which go against the general consensus on here that RD is destroying the club.
I believe that some of the reasonings behind the Anti-RD campaign are just as flawed / debateable
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Decisions made may often be with good intentions but can disastrous results in any case.
Much of the reasoning against the Duchatelet footballing strategy may be incorrect but it appears due to the vacuum of information and communication. Charlton supporters are not specifically against Duchatelet and if he displayed a different approach and choose a different strategy would not object to him at the club.
A lot has changed in the Championship since Duchatelet has taken over. FFP controls have been significantly loosened and there is a massive injection of TV money at the top end. Being competitive within in the Championship will take some investment. It needs to be communicated, how the initial Duchatelet plan is to be adjusted to take in the changing circumstances.
(NB Reasoning is plural already, doesn't need an 's' on the end)
I don't disagree with that at all, but I do think some posters on here have blurred the lines between wanting RD out, and wanting better comms. FFP have certainly messed with RD's original masterplan.
Oh, and thanks for the English lesson, I will be sure to pass it on to my fellow Belgians
The whole point of the article was to highlight that there are other potential reasons behind actual decisions which go against the general consensus on here that RD is destroying the club.
I believe that some of the reasonings behind the Anti-RD campaign are just as flawed / debateable
You said earlier about the points in your original post: ' ....many of them, to me, appear factual'
At least now you seem to be shifting from declaring them as 'factual'.
Comments
Circumstance can dictate the decisions made and nobody in ther right mind will say RD hasn't got some badly wrong e.g. YK and communication issues, but i just don't buy the accusations levelled at him nor do i think this club is any less Charlton under him (unless you want to look at it that way)
Well done on your post
Employee? Afraid not (although I did apply for a job there about 12 months ago) - Can you imagine how much overtime I'd be on for spending my Sunday trying to defend my boss....yet another way that my gaffer is bleeding this club dry.
On this Forum and on Wednesday People should have the bottle to put their views across whether they are in the majority or not.
To _be_ Franck your Views are welcome.
when i preach from the soapbox end i don't just want to have likes,
or LOL (are they LOL at me or with me ?) The opposite view if articulated is worth reading or listening to then i decide i was right anyway.
Roland got off on the wrong foot with me when right from the beginning he sells the talisman of the team and takes a year to replace him with a player who could be a bigger star.(Both Igor and Tony are great but not true Target men)
my main skills in life have been working out people i encounter, in work or play,
I have only been right 95% of the time, the other 5% were Females when My judgement got impaired by visual sights !
My view of Roland Duchatelet after watching 1905 on youtube was of a shy,cold,
introverted man with no charm yet his bank balance tells me he knows how to broker a deal. Have heard since (jimmy Stone) that a lot had to be cut ?
makes you wonder what ?
Can see why he made Katrien CEO but she is finding it hard to carrying out the wishes of a man who will never care or listen to the supporters of his football clubs.
i also didn't like to be told that the idea of Wednesday was to get Roland out,
At this stage we should try to force them to acknowledge that we are different to some other clubs because of our history of thinking outside the box,
(the Valley party)
Thou "Roland" out could be an option only down the line if he keeps selling our best players like he did at Standard when he made a mint.
2) Yes. To fund replacement of the pitch
3) Yes. Most of them inadequate. Riga kept Charlton up by playing mostly non network players.
4) Yes but the squad strength was clearly thin and inadequate.
5) That is hugely debatable.
6) Yes. Henderson is a good goalkeeper, but is injury prone, not having a proper decent experienced back up was a huge error of judgement.
9) The victory against Brentford is welcome but should not be used to spin and rose tint on what has gone on before and what may happen in the future.
Calling those with concerns as panic'ers is just disrespectful to long standing supporters of many years.
Question: Do you think that the squad as starting out this season was adequate for whole season ? Do you think that any errors of judgement have been made at all this season ?
Dismissing the opinions of supporters that do not share the same views as you is disrespectful as well.
Countering posts, portraying my opinions etc What a bloody boring forum if no one spoke.
Who is getting worked up? It would appear to me that the steam will come bursting out of your ears before mine
I know you are laid back and not worried about the future. Many Charlton supporters feel differently, having to suffer some really poor and dispiriting performances throughout the season.
The reasonings may be up for debate, but the main parts of the points, I would say are pretty accurate;
1) Did RD take over a struggling club and sack the manager?
2) Did RD sell YK?
3) Did RD bring in a number of players?
4) Did we sign players from outside of the network in the summer?
5) Are the current network players better than the last lot?
6) Did RD bring in another GK?
7) you agree
8) Which squad members have not had game time under GL?
9) Did we beat a team in contention for the playoffs? '
So to address the case that I was responding to your first post, not the edited version posted later:
1) 'Financially buggered', debateable as Roland wasn't the only game in town at the time.
2) 'RD sells top striker due to age / alleged refusal to play / wage demands and dropping value', debateable regarding the reasons you give for the sale.
3) 'RD brings in Network players to help with numbers', debateable because he may have brought in network players for other reasons.
4) 'Players from outside of network brought in to replace those lost Vetokele, Gudmundsson, Bikey, Henderson (YK, Poyet, Dervite & Hamer) Not necessarily like for like replacements, but at least equal in (potential) quality', debateable as to the reasons those players were brought in and opinion regarding quality.
5) 'Higher standard of Network players brought in to compliment 'permanent' squad members - TBH, GT (as you know I feel he was under rated), YB (admittedly fallen in our estimation, but was much admired at beginning of season), TW & FB' debateable as you make my point for me regarding Tucadean for a start.
6) 'GK suffers injury and 1st choice reserve takes a confidence hit. Player signed to replace first 2 keepers not good enough - Decent keeper shipped in from Network to help us through until SH return' debateable as regards Pope's confidence and whether Dimi is indeed 'decent'.
7) YUP
8) 'New manager gives majority of squad game time over 1st 3 (tough) games', debateable as to how many games the manager (head coach/Alex Ferguson?) has had.
9) 'Settled team pick up first win Vs playoff contenders 3 - 0 with the players looking more 'together' than in recent months, and with 11 players playing in their correct positions (the only time this season I have seen this, except 2nd half Vs Norwich (which we won 2-1))' You have a case here, but still debateable as to whether Buyens was part of this 'togetherness'.
So what you have declared to be factual earlier I see as open to question.
Rest your case. Whatever. I think you are mixing up two different points re paranoia.
Are you suggesting that all those supporters with concerns for Charlton future / or questions Duchatlets footballing decision and strategy are paranoid ?
Franck may not be a network employee, though when you apply again next time Franck, this thread may be a useful link on the CV
The whole point of the article was to highlight that there are other potential reasons behind actual decisions which go against the general consensus on here that RD is destroying the club.
I believe that some of the reasonings behind the Anti-RD campaign are just as flawed / debateable
It gets weirder and more desperate every day.
In terms of the RD mistakes highlighted in other posts, the big one is the selling/not replacing of Kermorgant. It's had the most emotional significance as well as the biggest impact on results. Had this mistake not been made, or had been since rectified, I wonder how important the other mistakes would now seem?
Much of the reasoning against the Duchatelet footballing strategy may be incorrect but it appears due to the vacuum of information and communication. Charlton supporters are not specifically against Duchatelet and if he displayed a different approach and choose a different strategy would not object to him at the club.
A lot has changed in the Championship since Duchatelet has taken over. FFP controls have been significantly loosened and there is a massive injection of TV money at the top end. Being competitive within in the Championship will take some investment. It needs to be communicated, how the initial Duchatelet plan is to be adjusted to take in the changing circumstances.
(NB @To_Be_Franck Reasoning is plural already, doesn't need an 's' on the end)
Who'd have thunk Charlton would have ever done that.
Oh, and thanks for the English lesson, I will be sure to pass it on to my fellow Belgians
Re: English. Glad to be of help there Franck.
I know that Dutch Universities teach in English. I had a Dutch girlfriend in my younger days and she spoke and wrote very good English. Not sure whether Belgian Universities teach in English or not. Going to a Dutch University (or Belgium if they teach in English) is a smart move as it is much cheaper due to the smaller fees. The cost of living can be cheaper as well.
I also think that writing and speaking as English as a second language can result in the communication being less subtle then intended. Any message can come accross as very blunt. I think that the network suffers with that.
Belgiums : )
You said earlier about the points in your original post: ' ....many of them, to me, appear factual'
At least now you seem to be shifting from declaring them as 'factual'.