The whole point of the article was to highlight that there are other potential reasons behind actual decisions which go against the general consensus on here that RD is destroying the club.
I believe that some of the reasonings behind the Anti-RD campaign are just as flawed / debateable
You said earlier about the points in your original post: ' ....many of them, to me, appear factual'
At least now you seem to be shifting from declaring them as 'factual'.
The points are factual, the justifications are my opinion
The whole point of the article was to highlight that there are other potential reasons behind actual decisions which go against the general consensus on here that RD is destroying the club.
I believe that some of the reasonings behind the Anti-RD campaign are just as flawed / debateable
You said earlier about the points in your original post: ' ....many of them, to me, appear factual'
At least now you seem to be shifting from declaring them as 'factual'.
The points are factual, the justifications are my opinion
Well there you have it, opinion.
You can state a fact 'It'll get dark tonight', and add an opinion 'because a great big fairy throws a black cloak over half the planet', but is does not necessarily make you correct, or add any more credibility than any other 'opinion'. Posing the 'maybe' question is fair enough, but as you have found, your opinions are very much open to counter arguments.
The whole point of the article was to highlight that there are other potential reasons behind actual decisions which go against the general consensus on here that RD is destroying the club.
I believe that some of the reasonings behind the Anti-RD campaign are just as flawed / debateable
You said earlier about the points in your original post: ' ....many of them, to me, appear factual'
At least now you seem to be shifting from declaring them as 'factual'.
The points are factual, the justifications are my opinion
Well there you have it, opinion.
You can state a fact 'It'll get dark tonight', and add an opinion 'because a great big fairy throws a black cloak over half the planet', but is does not necessarily make you correct, or add any more credibility than any other 'opinion'. Posing the 'maybe' question is fair enough, but as you have found, your opinions are very much open to counter arguments.
They are opinions that are countering arguments in the first place!
whatever anyone's views are , I'm sure we'd like to see our crowds hold up or drift off minimally at worse ..... Come the new season when/if we stay up I'm very much of the opinion that our season tickets and actual attendances will be well down and that is because people are voting with their feet And as much as some may not be bovered by that fact and yes idiots like me will watch any old shower of shit in a Charlton shirt , it is not good for us as a club to suffer this malaise amongst our support because it's not gonna be easy to tempt punters back And part of this has arisen due to the approach taken by our owners (and definitely some by the apathy with football in general) hopefully they can adopt a more amicable approach to the fans soon that will lead to us all working to make us a bigger and better club , rather than the insular approach of recent times
It's all to do with the performances and results on the field. If things are going well then the fans are happy. If not then they're not. At the end of the day, regardless of what is going on behind the scenes or who is running the club, it really is as simple as that.
We're all happy today because of the great performance and result yesterday. And long may it continue.
The OP is has posted a very seductive interpretation which holds water up until October. However, it's not new nor original as it simply summarises the many posts that people logged throughout 2014 before the wheels started to fall off. It proposes that there is a plan and events are under control but the following underpin a categorical retort: 1) I'm all in favour of academy / young players in the squad being used for cover and Pope was good to start, but if they are found out they have to be taken out of the line of fire for their sake and the team's sake. The loan system is a tried and tested way that top championship clubs improve their squads and cover gaps. 2) January 2014 certain players came and went - what's done is done. And all acquisitions at that time have long since departed. But the club have failed to sign a number 9. We have created by far the least number of goalscoring opportunities in the division and there has been no significant attempt to rectify this. Goals win games. Strikers are expensive but winning games enhances the value of the squad and the whole club.
3) The championship season is long and for the first third we were in touching distance of the play-offs. Promises were made to acquire quality players if we stayed in touch. Football at this level is a game of thin margins but no attempt was made to augment our chances of staying in the top eight. No wonder Bob lost it! 4) Peeters had to go for sure. Riga was available but was not selected and then rolls up at Liege to replace a coach who secured 9 wins from 13 after recovering the train wreck that was this season for them. For a club the size of Liege to finish outside the top six play-offs is abject failure. So they experience their own car crash - why not try posting your views on their site?! 5) A complete refusal to communicate together with an invite to the Trust to promote ticket sales but without revealing what the product is which is to be promoted - beyond parody and hats off to the Trust for rejecting the invitation to put a fig leaf on the emperor with no clothes! 6) And finally a "CEO" who is not qualified to do the job and clearly is NOT making the football strategy decisions as exposed so cruelly by the appointment of Luzon
There might be many explanations for the above but look at them collectively and it strikes me that the board of CAFC is not in charge of the club's destiny. I can understand why the management would not wish to engage with VOTV but the Trust is a different entity. As far as I can see, the only activity where CAFC management have engaged with fans is the museum.
Anyone maintaining that it should be business as usual after a 12 match winless run and the events of January is being disingenuous at best. Just as some choose to post about Nego and Koc long after they left and some post about the evils of the network even after witnessing the performance of our front six yesterday, pretending nothing happened November-january is something only an ostrich could do.
Having been M. Duchatelet's most vocal supporter in internetland (nothing wrong with that btw), for the last year, as soon as a bit of organised movement against is in the pipeline, you are now very vocally against M. Duchatelet, his approach and his regime ?
Advocates of man made global warming insists nothing has changed when we have a winter of sub freezing temperatures and copious quantities of snow. They claim that the underlying problem is still there despite the apparent (in their eyes) evidence to the contrary.
Applying a similar analogy it could be said that one win at Charlton does nothing to change the underlying problem.
The only difference perhaps, and this will probably read as stupid, is that, in Charlton's case, nobody seems exactly sure of exactly what the problem is although there seems to be quite a consensus that there is a problem.
whatever anyone's views are , I'm sure we'd like to see our crowds hold up or drift off minimally at worse ..... Come the new season when/if we stay up I'm very much of the opinion that our season tickets and actual attendances will be well down and that is because people are voting with their feet And as much as some may not be bovered by that fact and yes idiots like me will watch any old shower of shit in a Charlton shirt , it is not good for us as a club to suffer this malaise amongst our support because it's not gonna be easy to tempt punters back And part of this has arisen due to the approach taken by our owners (and definitely some by the apathy with football in general) hopefully they can adopt a more amicable approach to the fans soon that will lead to us all working to make us a bigger and better club , rather than the insular approach of recent times
Well said, oohaah.
It will be interesting to hear Lifers' responses when the new ticket/season ticket prices are announced this month.
And whether Valley Express continues as at present or is scaled down even more next season.
Perhaps this will tell us whether those who hold the purse strings are truly listening.
Going to take me more than one game to be convinced TBF. But I admire your optimism.
I think Bob being publicly supported in a programme and sacked the next day might constitute a manager being lied to, BTW?
Maybe so, how about the possibility that the programme went to print (thursday?) and on Friday KM and RD are made aware of a major falling out due to word / actions of the management team....would you want them to keep BP employed for another week / fortnight just because of an article in the programme?
You didn't ask for complicated "maybe" scenarios TBF, you asked for people to elaborate on where staff had been lied to - my version of events is far more likely than yours, given the evidence presented...
Ok, fair enough.
How many other teams would write in the programme that the manager's job is under threat
Again, not what was asked. Please stop trying to move the goalposts. You asked a question, I answered it.
You did, and I appreciate the answer...I am just offering up a possible explanation to the 'lie' given to BP.
Surely any CEO worth their salt would at least be aware of squad harmony before declaring in a programme that they won't sack the manager?
Actually it may be only number 7 that is factual. Every one of the other points are open to debate.
The reasonings may be up for debate, but the main parts of the points, I would say are pretty accurate;
1) Did RD take over a struggling club and sack the manager? 2) Did RD sell YK? 3) Did RD bring in a number of players? 4) Did we sign players from outside of the network in the summer? 5) Are the current network players better than the last lot? 6) Did RD bring in another GK?
7) you agree
8) Which squad members have not had game time under GL? 9) Did we beat a team in contention for the playoffs?
1. Did he need to sack the manager? Did he undermine thst manager and the next two forcing players on them? 2.Mistake selling YK and still hasn't replaced him. 3. None were good enough and the majority haven't been. 4.Yes and they're the only ones good enough. He should do it more often and trust his managers. 5.Tucudean and Buyens no. Watt is better than Reza but that's not hard. 6.From outside the network? No. Perhaps if he'd not shipped out Alnwick because Powell wouldn't play Thuram he wouldn't have to sign Dmitrovic. 9.We've also dropped points to teams below us.
1. He needed to sack Powell because Powell was not accepting being forced to play players and never would, ditto Riga and Peeters stopped answering his phone! But might be better maaging the finances and letting manager manage. 2. Massive mistake, underestimating the importance of YK to the team, and Bournemouth's desire to nab him. 3. some have been good enough, but the squad has been too light on the right level of players - the best team we can put out is up there with the best, but it is a long hard season and injuries to key players would still be a disaster - no striker on bench on Saturday!!!! 4. Some good signings, but also lost some good players, from a point where things were as bad as things could get. 5. Buyens is decent enough at this level, Watt looks high end. 9. Best team is decent, makes it more frustrating that back ups not provided.
But mistakes can always be made - failure to take fans with them on the journey or even seem to care about us could be the biggest mistake of all.
Actually it may be only number 7 that is factual. Every one of the other points are open to debate.
The reasonings may be up for debate, but the main parts of the points, I would say are pretty accurate;
1) Did RD take over a struggling club and sack the manager? 2) Did RD sell YK? 3) Did RD bring in a number of players? 4) Did we sign players from outside of the network in the summer? 5) Are the current network players better than the last lot? 6) Did RD bring in another GK?
7) you agree
8) Which squad members have not had game time under GL? 9) Did we beat a team in contention for the playoffs?
1. Did he need to sack the manager? Did he undermine thst manager and the next two forcing players on them? 2.Mistake selling YK and still hasn't replaced him. 3. None were good enough and the majority haven't been. 4.Yes and they're the only ones good enough. He should do it more often and trust his managers. 5.Tucudean and Buyens no. Watt is better than Reza but that's not hard. 6.From outside the network? No. Perhaps if he'd not shipped out Alnwick and Button because Powell wouldn't play Thuram he wouldn't have to sign Dmitrovic. 9.We've also dropped points to teams below us.
Point of order. The spivs moved Button on at the start of last season because they hadn't paid the fee.
The OP is has posted a very seductive interpretation which holds water up until October. However, it's not new nor original as it simply summarises the many posts that people logged throughout 2014 before the wheels started to fall off. It proposes that there is a plan and events are under control but the following underpin a categorical retort: 1) I'm all in favour of academy / young players in the squad being used for cover and Pope was good to start, but if they are found out they have to be taken out of the line of fire for their sake and the team's sake. The loan system is a tried and tested way that top championship clubs improve their squads and cover gaps. 2) January 2014 certain players came and went - what's done is done. And all acquisitions at that time have long since departed. But the club have failed to sign a number 9. We have created by far the least number of goalscoring opportunities in the division and there has been no significant attempt to rectify this. Goals win games. Strikers are expensive but winning games enhances the value of the squad and the whole club.
3) The championship season is long and for the first third we were in touching distance of the play-offs. Promises were made to acquire quality players if we stayed in touch. Football at this level is a game of thin margins but no attempt was made to augment our chances of staying in the top eight. No wonder Bob lost it! 4) Peeters had to go for sure. Riga was available but was not selected and then rolls up at Liege to replace a coach who secured 9 wins from 13 after recovering the train wreck that was this season for them. For a club the size of Liege to finish outside the top six play-offs is abject failure. So they experience their own car crash - why not try posting your views on their site?! 5) A complete refusal to communicate together with an invite to the Trust to promote ticket sales but without revealing what the product is which is to be promoted - beyond parody and hats off to the Trust for rejecting the invitation to put a fig leaf on the emperor with no clothes! 6) And finally a "CEO" who is not qualified to do the job and clearly is NOT making the football strategy decisions as exposed so cruelly by the appointment of Luzon
There might be many explanations for the above but look at them collectively and it strikes me that the board of CAFC is not in charge of the club's destiny. I can understand why the management would not wish to engage with VOTV but the Trust is a different entity. As far as I can see, the only activity where CAFC management have engaged with fans is the museum.
Anyone maintaining that it should be business as usual after a 12 match winless run and the events of January is being disingenuous at best. Just as some choose to post about Nego and Koc long after they left and some post about the evils of the network even after witnessing the performance of our front six yesterday, pretending nothing happened November-january is something only an ostrich could do.
Actually it may be only number 7 that is factual. Every one of the other points are open to debate.
The reasonings may be up for debate, but the main parts of the points, I would say are pretty accurate;
1) Did RD take over a struggling club and sack the manager? 2) Did RD sell YK? 3) Did RD bring in a number of players? 4) Did we sign players from outside of the network in the summer? 5) Are the current network players better than the last lot? 6) Did RD bring in another GK?
7) you agree
8) Which squad members have not had game time under GL? 9) Did we beat a team in contention for the playoffs?
1. Did he need to sack the manager? Did he undermine thst manager and the next two forcing players on them? 2.Mistake selling YK and still hasn't replaced him. 3. None were good enough and the majority haven't been. 4.Yes and they're the only ones good enough. He should do it more often and trust his managers. 5.Tucudean and Buyens no. Watt is better than Reza but that's not hard. 6.From outside the network? No. Perhaps if he'd not shipped out Alnwick and Button because Powell wouldn't play Thuram he wouldn't have to sign Dmitrovic. 9.We've also dropped points to teams below us.
Point of order. The spivs moved Button on at the start of last season because they hadn't paid the fee.
Sorry but how can it even be up for debate that this season's network players are no better than last seasons?
Buyens vs AA is about the only comparison as AA was about the only player last season to make an impact. Watt vs PP - not even comparable. Bulot vs Koc - not even comparable. Tucudean vs Reza - i'm struggling to see how Reza would win this one. More impact from George out of the two. Dmitrovic vs Thuram - Dmitrovic isn't perfect but you'd pick him over Thuram Ben Haim vs Nego - not even comparable.
Granted this season's network players haven't been perfect but I can't believe a comparison between this season and last season's are even up for debate!
Sorry but how can it even be up for debate that this season's network players are no better than last seasons?
Buyens vs AA is about the only comparison as AA was about the only player last season to make an impact. Watt vs PP - not even comparable. Bulot vs Koc - not even comparable. Tucudean vs Reza - i'm struggling to see how Reza would win this one. More impact from George out of the two. Dmitrovic vs Thuram - Dmitrovic isn't perfect but you'd pick him over Thuram Ben Haim vs Nego - not even comparable.
Granted this season's network players haven't been perfect but I can't believe a comparison between this season and last season's are even up for debate!
So how on earth are we trashing about at the bottom again
Sorry but how can it even be up for debate that this season's network players are no better than last seasons?
Buyens vs AA is about the only comparison as AA was about the only player last season to make an impact. Watt vs PP - not even comparable. Bulot vs Koc - not even comparable. Tucudean vs Reza - i'm struggling to see how Reza would win this one. More impact from George out of the two. Dmitrovic vs Thuram - Dmitrovic isn't perfect but you'd pick him over Thuram Ben Haim vs Nego - not even comparable.
Granted this season's network players haven't been perfect but I can't believe a comparison between this season and last season's are even up for debate!
So how on earth are we trashing about at the bottom again
Yet only 2 points from 12th place too as the table looks at the moment.
Sorry but how can it even be up for debate that this season's network players are no better than last seasons?
Buyens vs AA is about the only comparison as AA was about the only player last season to make an impact. Watt vs PP - not even comparable. Bulot vs Koc - not even comparable. Tucudean vs Reza - i'm struggling to see how Reza would win this one. More impact from George out of the two. Dmitrovic vs Thuram - Dmitrovic isn't perfect but you'd pick him over Thuram Ben Haim vs Nego - not even comparable.
Granted this season's network players haven't been perfect but I can't believe a comparison between this season and last season's are even up for debate!
So how on earth are we trashing about at the bottom again
Yet only 2 points from 12th place too as the table looks at the moment.
Wow
Poor management is the answer, which has resulted in too many below par performances and a squad too thin to deal with the rigours of a full season
Sorry but how can it even be up for debate that this season's network players are no better than last seasons?
Buyens vs AA is about the only comparison as AA was about the only player last season to make an impact. Watt vs PP - not even comparable. Bulot vs Koc - not even comparable. Tucudean vs Reza - i'm struggling to see how Reza would win this one. More impact from George out of the two. Dmitrovic vs Thuram - Dmitrovic isn't perfect but you'd pick him over Thuram Ben Haim vs Nego - not even comparable.
Granted this season's network players haven't been perfect but I can't believe a comparison between this season and last season's are even up for debate!
So how on earth are we trashing about at the bottom again
Yet only 2 points from 12th place too as the table looks at the moment.
Wow
Poor management is the answer, which has resulted in too many below par performances and a squad too thin to deal with the rigours of a full season
I don't disagree with you there Morts, the fact there was no striker on the bench yesterday was very concerning. I would like to hope in the summer window another striker on par with Vetokele and Watt is signed so we have suitable cover should Vetokele pick up another injury and be allowed to fully recover next time. Another keeper of Championship standard is a must too but then could it be fair to say Etheridge was unfairly dropped after Watford?
Sorry but how can it even be up for debate that this season's network players are no better than last seasons?
Buyens vs AA is about the only comparison as AA was about the only player last season to make an impact. Watt vs PP - not even comparable. Bulot vs Koc - not even comparable. Tucudean vs Reza - i'm struggling to see how Reza would win this one. More impact from George out of the two. Dmitrovic vs Thuram - Dmitrovic isn't perfect but you'd pick him over Thuram Ben Haim vs Nego - not even comparable.
Granted this season's network players haven't been perfect but I can't believe a comparison between this season and last season's are even up for debate!
So how on earth are we trashing about at the bottom again
Yet only 2 points from 12th place too as the table looks at the moment.
Wow
Poor management is the answer, which has resulted in too many below par performances and a squad too thin to deal with the rigours of a full season
And yet, despite all this shit, we ARE only 2 pts from 12th ...we are in a mess and our owner has ...on the surface ...lost his way. But we are not in the position of Wigan and Blackpool.
If ...and I admit it is a big if ...we can find a way to communicate with our owner on Wednesday, there is a way forward.
Sorry but how can it even be up for debate that this season's network players are no better than last seasons?
Buyens vs AA is about the only comparison as AA was about the only player last season to make an impact. Watt vs PP - not even comparable. Bulot vs Koc - not even comparable. Tucudean vs Reza - i'm struggling to see how Reza would win this one. More impact from George out of the two. Dmitrovic vs Thuram - Dmitrovic isn't perfect but you'd pick him over Thuram Ben Haim vs Nego - not even comparable.
Granted this season's network players haven't been perfect but I can't believe a comparison between this season and last season's are even up for debate!
So how on earth are we trashing about at the bottom again
Yet only 2 points from 12th place too as the table looks at the moment.
Wow
Poor management is the answer, which has resulted in too many below par performances and a squad too thin to deal with the rigours of a full season
I don't disagree with you there Morts, the fact there was no striker on the bench yesterday was very concerning. I would like to hope in the summer window another striker on par with Vetokele and Watt is signed so we have suitable cover should Vetokele pick up another injury and be allowed to fully recover next time. Another keeper of Championship standard is a must too but then could it be fair to say Etheridge was unfairly dropped after Watford?
Can we realistically afford to wait until the summer for another forward? That'll mark 18 months since Yann left.
Sorry but how can it even be up for debate that this season's network players are no better than last seasons?
Buyens vs AA is about the only comparison as AA was about the only player last season to make an impact. Watt vs PP - not even comparable. Bulot vs Koc - not even comparable. Tucudean vs Reza - i'm struggling to see how Reza would win this one. More impact from George out of the two. Dmitrovic vs Thuram - Dmitrovic isn't perfect but you'd pick him over Thuram Ben Haim vs Nego - not even comparable.
Granted this season's network players haven't been perfect but I can't believe a comparison between this season and last season's are even up for debate!
So how on earth are we trashing about at the bottom again
Yet only 2 points from 12th place too as the table looks at the moment.
Wow
Poor management is the answer, which has resulted in too many below par performances and a squad too thin to deal with the rigours of a full season
I don't disagree with you there Morts, the fact there was no striker on the bench yesterday was very concerning. I would like to hope in the summer window another striker on par with Vetokele and Watt is signed so we have suitable cover should Vetokele pick up another injury and be allowed to fully recover next time. Another keeper of Championship standard is a must too but then could it be fair to say Etheridge was unfairly dropped after Watford?
Can we realistically afford to wait until the summer for another forward? That'll mark 18 months since Yann left.
If Watt and Vetokele can stay fit and we can move a bit further away from the relegation zone to be honest i'd be happy to wait until the summer if it meant signing a striker on par with the other two on a permanent basis. Otherwise it means bringing in somebody on loan which i'm not against but as it stands Blackpool and Wigan are already looking doomed so looks like only one more space to be occupied from anybody in the bottom half of the table.
We can probably get by the rest of the season without bringing in another striker on loan but I wouldn't object if we did though I would suggest a replacement for the Spurs loanee is probably needed first.
Sorry but how can it even be up for debate that this season's network players are no better than last seasons?
Buyens vs AA is about the only comparison as AA was about the only player last season to make an impact. Watt vs PP - not even comparable. Bulot vs Koc - not even comparable. Tucudean vs Reza - i'm struggling to see how Reza would win this one. More impact from George out of the two. Dmitrovic vs Thuram - Dmitrovic isn't perfect but you'd pick him over Thuram Ben Haim vs Nego - not even comparable.
Granted this season's network players haven't been perfect but I can't believe a comparison between this season and last season's are even up for debate!
So how on earth are we trashing about at the bottom again
Yet only 2 points from 12th place too as the table looks at the moment.
Wow
Poor management is the answer, which has resulted in too many below par performances and a squad too thin to deal with the rigours of a full season
I don't disagree with you there Morts, the fact there was no striker on the bench yesterday was very concerning. I would like to hope in the summer window another striker on par with Vetokele and Watt is signed so we have suitable cover should Vetokele pick up another injury and be allowed to fully recover next time. Another keeper of Championship standard is a must too but then could it be fair to say Etheridge was unfairly dropped after Watford?
Can we realistically afford to wait until the summer for another forward? That'll mark 18 months since Yann left.
We had Watt and Igor up front yesterday. Yes we need backup, but watching those 2 terrorise the Brentford defence, we have a decent pair up front now.
Life is full of "ifs". Back in 1997/98, is Super Clive had got injured, we would never got promoted as there was no cover of remotely the same standard.
I have some sympathy with the OP, especially after the result yesterday. I think its too early to say about Luzon and some of the players brought in have been more than adequate. (I am thinking especially of a certain Scottish forward).
But ......
There is something missing at the moment that doesn't feel like Charlton and that is the engagement between the club and the fans. It was there even under the last regime, mainly because of CP and long serving staff I guess, but it was there all the same. RD made his money in the superconductors business which is business-to-business. Business to business means you are dealing with other businesses, not the general public with all its irrational foibles and emotional involvement. Hence he doesn't understand the emotional side. KM is meant to be the eyes and ears on that (and is clearly out of her depth I think). Personally, I'm not happy with things as they are. If there is a more innocent narrative I would like to hear it from the club. If they were aware of how their customers feel (and I'm aware that there are theories that RD's customers are actually other clubs who want to buy CAFC players) surely they would put something out to build some confidence? Especially after a good win.
I don't want to rush to judgement. Until yesterday I thought we were dead certs for League 1 so what do I know.
Sorry but how can it even be up for debate that this season's network players are no better than last seasons?
Buyens vs AA is about the only comparison as AA was about the only player last season to make an impact. Watt vs PP - not even comparable. Bulot vs Koc - not even comparable. Tucudean vs Reza - i'm struggling to see how Reza would win this one. More impact from George out of the two. Dmitrovic vs Thuram - Dmitrovic isn't perfect but you'd pick him over Thuram Ben Haim vs Nego - not even comparable.
Granted this season's network players haven't been perfect but I can't believe a comparison between this season and last season's are even up for debate!
So how on earth are we trashing about at the bottom again
Yet only 2 points from 12th place too as the table looks at the moment.
Wow
Poor management is the answer, which has resulted in too many below par performances and a squad too thin to deal with the rigours of a full season
I don't disagree with you there Morts, the fact there was no striker on the bench yesterday was very concerning. I would like to hope in the summer window another striker on par with Vetokele and Watt is signed so we have suitable cover should Vetokele pick up another injury and be allowed to fully recover next time. Another keeper of Championship standard is a must too but then could it be fair to say Etheridge was unfairly dropped after Watford?
I hope we are going to stay up, but we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves I think. We've won one game in 15. We can worry about the summer transfer window once we're clear that we're still in this division. Otherwise it will be about who stays, not who comes in.
Sorry but how can it even be up for debate that this season's network players are no better than last seasons?
Buyens vs AA is about the only comparison as AA was about the only player last season to make an impact. Watt vs PP - not even comparable. Bulot vs Koc - not even comparable. Tucudean vs Reza - i'm struggling to see how Reza would win this one. More impact from George out of the two. Dmitrovic vs Thuram - Dmitrovic isn't perfect but you'd pick him over Thuram Ben Haim vs Nego - not even comparable.
Granted this season's network players haven't been perfect but I can't believe a comparison between this season and last season's are even up for debate!
So how on earth are we trashing about at the bottom again
Yet only 2 points from 12th place too as the table looks at the moment.
Wow
Poor management is the answer, which has resulted in too many below par performances and a squad too thin to deal with the rigours of a full season
I don't disagree with you there Morts, the fact there was no striker on the bench yesterday was very concerning. I would like to hope in the summer window another striker on par with Vetokele and Watt is signed so we have suitable cover should Vetokele pick up another injury and be allowed to fully recover next time. Another keeper of Championship standard is a must too but then could it be fair to say Etheridge was unfairly dropped after Watford?
Can we realistically afford to wait until the summer for another forward? That'll mark 18 months since Yann left.
One of my concerns is how many of the current squad will remain in the summer. RD has a history of moving players around the network and selling on ones where he can make a profit. Luzon's recent comments on his sacking at SL is telling. Having got to a whisker of Champions League, RD sold on a lot of the better players and brought in a new set which led to him being removed. My fear is that he will continue to do this. So Igor, Watt and Gud become assets with a good return and will be sold.
That is, in my mind, not a good way to run a football club. You need stability, players who hang around and become committed to the cause, build up a relationship with the fans, and so on.
This goes for the manager/head coach/whatever as well. I'm not sure how much the difference in play, desire, style between Tuesday and Saturday is down to Luzon. Or was it the senior players (probably led by JJ) getting together and deciding to play in a style that suits Championship football. I will give Luzon the benefit of the doubt for the time being, but will need to see it replicated for more games. Nonetheless, changing the manager every 6 months is a hopeless way to continue.
I also don't fully understand the "all is perfect"/"all is bad" lines that some people have drawn. My guess is that many (most?) can see some good things and some bad. The bottom line for most fans is that if the team perform on the pitch then they don't really care about the owner or their motives. To pick just two, do Chelsea fans care where Arramovich made his money or Man City fans care about the politics of the UAE? But you do need to get success you need to let the team grow and improve and, based upon his history, I am not yet convinced that RD will allow this.
Comments
You can state a fact 'It'll get dark tonight', and add an opinion 'because a great big fairy throws a black cloak over half the planet', but is does not necessarily make you correct, or add any more credibility than any other 'opinion'.
Posing the 'maybe' question is fair enough, but as you have found, your opinions are very much open to counter arguments.
They are opinions that are countering arguments in the first place!
Come the new season when/if we stay up I'm very much of the opinion that our season tickets and actual attendances will be well down and that is because people are voting with their feet
And as much as some may not be bovered by that fact and yes idiots like me will watch any old shower of shit in a Charlton shirt , it is not good for us as a club to suffer this malaise amongst our support because it's not gonna be easy to tempt punters back
And part of this has arisen due to the approach taken by our owners (and definitely some by the apathy with football in general) hopefully they can adopt a more amicable approach to the fans soon that will lead to us all working to make us a bigger and better club , rather than the insular approach of recent times
We're all happy today because of the great performance and result yesterday. And long may it continue.
1) I'm all in favour of academy / young players in the squad being used for cover and Pope was good to start, but if they are found out they have to be taken out of the line of fire for their sake and the team's sake. The loan system is a tried and tested way that top championship clubs improve their squads and cover gaps.
2) January 2014 certain players came and went - what's done is done. And all acquisitions at that time have long since departed. But the club have failed to sign a number 9. We have created by far the least number of goalscoring opportunities in the division and there has been no significant attempt to rectify this. Goals win games. Strikers are expensive but winning games enhances the value of the squad and the whole club.
3) The championship season is long and for the first third we were in touching distance of the play-offs. Promises were made to acquire quality players if we stayed in touch. Football at this level is a game of thin margins but no attempt was made to augment our chances of staying in the top eight. No wonder Bob lost it!
4) Peeters had to go for sure. Riga was available but was not selected and then rolls up at Liege to replace a coach who secured 9 wins from 13 after recovering the train wreck that was this season for them. For a club the size of Liege to finish outside the top six play-offs is abject failure. So they experience their own car crash - why not try posting your views on their site?!
5) A complete refusal to communicate together with an invite to the Trust to promote ticket sales but without revealing what the product is which is to be promoted - beyond parody and hats off to the Trust for rejecting the invitation to put a fig leaf on the emperor with no clothes!
6) And finally a "CEO" who is not qualified to do the job and clearly is NOT making the football strategy decisions as exposed so cruelly by the appointment of Luzon
There might be many explanations for the above but look at them collectively and it strikes me that the board of CAFC is not in charge of the club's destiny. I can understand why the management would not wish to engage with VOTV but the Trust is a different entity. As far as I can see, the only activity where CAFC management have engaged with fans is the museum.
Anyone maintaining that it should be business as usual after a 12 match winless run and the events of January is being disingenuous at best. Just as some choose to post about Nego and Koc long after they left and some post about the evils of the network even after witnessing the performance of our front six yesterday, pretending nothing happened November-january is something only an ostrich could do.
Having been M. Duchatelet's most vocal supporter in internetland (nothing wrong with that btw), for the last year, as soon as a bit of organised movement against is in the pipeline, you are now very vocally against M. Duchatelet, his approach and his regime ?
Applying a similar analogy it could be said that one win at Charlton does nothing to change the underlying problem.
The only difference perhaps, and this will probably read as stupid, is that, in Charlton's case, nobody seems exactly sure of exactly what the problem is although there seems to be quite a consensus that there is a problem.
It will be interesting to hear Lifers' responses when the new ticket/season ticket prices are announced this month.
And whether Valley Express continues as at present or is scaled down even more next season.
Perhaps this will tell us whether those who hold the purse strings are truly listening.
2.Mistake selling YK and still hasn't replaced him.
3. None were good enough and the majority haven't been.
4.Yes and they're the only ones good enough. He should do it more often and trust his managers.
5.Tucudean and Buyens no. Watt is better than Reza but that's not hard.
6.From outside the network? No. Perhaps if he'd not shipped out Alnwick because Powell wouldn't play Thuram he wouldn't have to sign Dmitrovic.
9.We've also dropped points to teams below us.
2. Massive mistake, underestimating the importance of YK to the team, and Bournemouth's desire to nab him.
3. some have been good enough, but the squad has been too light on the right level of players - the best team we can put out is up there with the best, but it is a long hard season and injuries to key players would still be a disaster - no striker on bench on Saturday!!!!
4. Some good signings, but also lost some good players, from a point where things were as bad as things could get.
5. Buyens is decent enough at this level, Watt looks high end.
9. Best team is decent, makes it more frustrating that back ups not provided.
But mistakes can always be made - failure to take fans with them on the journey or even seem to care about us could be the biggest mistake of all.
Buyens vs AA is about the only comparison as AA was about the only player last season to make an impact.
Watt vs PP - not even comparable.
Bulot vs Koc - not even comparable.
Tucudean vs Reza - i'm struggling to see how Reza would win this one. More impact from George out of the two.
Dmitrovic vs Thuram - Dmitrovic isn't perfect but you'd pick him over Thuram
Ben Haim vs Nego - not even comparable.
Granted this season's network players haven't been perfect but I can't believe a comparison between this season and last season's are even up for debate!
Poor management is the answer, which has resulted in too many below par performances and a squad too thin to deal with the rigours of a full season
If ...and I admit it is a big if ...we can find a way to communicate with our owner on Wednesday, there is a way forward.
We can probably get by the rest of the season without bringing in another striker on loan but I wouldn't object if we did though I would suggest a replacement for the Spurs loanee is probably needed first.
Life is full of "ifs". Back in 1997/98, is Super Clive had got injured, we would never got promoted as there was no cover of remotely the same standard.
But ......
There is something missing at the moment that doesn't feel like Charlton and that is the engagement between the club and the fans. It was there even under the last regime, mainly because of CP and long serving staff I guess, but it was there all the same. RD made his money in the superconductors business which is business-to-business. Business to business means you are dealing with other businesses, not the general public with all its irrational foibles and emotional involvement. Hence he doesn't understand the emotional side. KM is meant to be the eyes and ears on that (and is clearly out of her depth I think). Personally, I'm not happy with things as they are. If there is a more innocent narrative I would like to hear it from the club. If they were aware of how their customers feel (and I'm aware that there are theories that RD's customers are actually other clubs who want to buy CAFC players) surely they would put something out to build some confidence? Especially after a good win.
I don't want to rush to judgement. Until yesterday I thought we were dead certs for League 1 so what do I know.
That is, in my mind, not a good way to run a football club. You need stability, players who hang around and become committed to the cause, build up a relationship with the fans, and so on.
This goes for the manager/head coach/whatever as well. I'm not sure how much the difference in play, desire, style between Tuesday and Saturday is down to Luzon. Or was it the senior players (probably led by JJ) getting together and deciding to play in a style that suits Championship football. I will give Luzon the benefit of the doubt for the time being, but will need to see it replicated for more games. Nonetheless, changing the manager every 6 months is a hopeless way to continue.
I also don't fully understand the "all is perfect"/"all is bad" lines that some people have drawn. My guess is that many (most?) can see some good things and some bad. The bottom line for most fans is that if the team perform on the pitch then they don't really care about the owner or their motives. To pick just two, do Chelsea fans care where Arramovich made his money or Man City fans care about the politics of the UAE? But you do need to get success you need to let the team grow and improve and, based upon his history, I am not yet convinced that RD will allow this.