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Maybe, just maybe.......An alternative view point

Maybe we aren't giving RD enough credit. This may be an unpopular post, but worth considering. (before I get pulled up, I realise it is not strictly chronological)

1) RD takes over a financially buggered team which is struggling on the pitch, makes a change in management.
2) RD sells top striker due to age / alleged refusal to play / wage demands and dropping value.
3) RD brings in Network players to help with numbers.

Club survives and management admit some network players were not up to standard. (Necessary) improvements made to The Valley.

4) Players from outside of network brought in to replace those lost Vetokele, Gudmundsson, Bikey, Henderson (YK, Poyet, Dervite & Hamer) Not necessarily like for like replacements, but at least equal in (potential) quality.

5) Higher standard of Network players brought in to compliment 'permanent' squad members - TBH, GT (as you know I feel he was under rated), YB (admittedly fallen in our estimation, but was much admired at beginning of season), TW & FB.

6) GK suffers injury and 1st choice reserve takes a confidence hit. Player signed to replace first 2 keepers not good enough - Decent keeper shipped in from Network to help us through until SH return.

7) No win in 3 months, talk of player / management fallout - manager gets the sack and another one of RD's trusted 'advisors' brought in to settle the situation (as per Riga).
8) New manager gives majority of squad game time over 1st 3 (tough) games.

9) Settled team pick up first win Vs playoff contenders 3 - 0 with the players looking more 'together' than in recent months, and with 11 players playing in their correct positions (the only time this season I have seen this, except 2nd half Vs Norwich (which we won 2-1))

10) GT not quite cutting it in the Championship - shipped out of Network, no doubt with financial gain.

??11) Next summer, more additions from outside of network.??



We all know that RD has a large personal fortune, and would love for him to spend £5m on a player here, £4m on a player there, - but this is unrealistic. I still believe that RD DOES want us to be competitive, and would love for promotion (although this is not the be all and end all).



I still believe that the 'Network' can work, admittedly it would be more successful if the difference in standards between teams were greater.


I am still very much on the fence on this one. MS and TJ were not financially able to do any of the above, yet it is the Belgiums getting stick.


I apologise if I have my rose tinted specs on, or if my head is buried in the sand, but I am still not ready to panic over the future of 'my' Charlton
«1345

Comments

  • Here we go

  • IAgree said:

    All seductive arguments that any Charlton supporter with an ounce of optimism would wish to be true. All arguments I previuosly believed, all arguments I argued with passion and all utterly wrong.

    Let us not delude ourselves that, inspite of yesterday's win, the fundamentals of the situation are the same. This is a man with only a vague (and flawed) master plan but bags of confidence in it. He has built up a disperate rag- tag of teams with apparently little interest in the clubs, football or fans.

    Can there be a more dramatic illustration of the appalling lack of strategy, or care than our last year? We along with his staff, mangers and players have been lied to, manipulated and treated with utter contempt. This in precisely the sort of message we received from other clubs fans (which I chose to ignore). There is at least consistency in these elements of RD's behaviuor.

    The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour; This club was, is, and will be in grave peril all the time RD owns us, or has an epiphany unique in his ten plus years of club ownership.


    And still in business.


    I understand that I am in the minority (on here anyway), and will be first to put my hands up should everyone's worse fears come to fruition. But I cannot, as much as this place tries, get myself as worked up as people on here.
  • Pedro45 said:

    You can't really argue with your timeline...but nor can you with "We along with his staff, managers and players have been lied to, manipulated and treated with utter contempt. I would also love RD's "plan" to work, but at what cost/ Are we all plastics now? No! We have followed this club of ours (yes, ours!) for many years and do not want it to be a plaything for anyone. It has to be the heart and soul of the community, for the fans, by the fans. We have had a vision previously, now we just want it back again. RD's and KM's like it or lump it plea is a failure to recognise what makes Charlton special.

    We were all excited when we were linked with the rich Yank - we would have been his 'plaything'. I prefer that RD is trying to do it the 'Right way'.
    The like it or lump it, was admittedly an error in judgement on the club's part which could have been handled differently.

    Could you elaborate on the staff, managers and players being lied to, manipulated and treated with contempt?
  • Going to take me more than one game to be convinced TBF. But I admire your optimism.

    I think Bob being publicly supported in a programme and sacked the next day might constitute a manager being lied to, BTW?
  • Its not just how the club is being run but also how the club is seen to be run. Maybe if RD or even Katrien explained things a little better (maybe if they told us this was the plan) and showed an ounce of respect to the club and the fans. Because of the lack of communication all we have to go on is 4 managers in a year, a lot of unsuccessful network rejects and lies from the board.

    I would argue there was just as many successful network 'triumphs'
    Scoham said:

    Pedro45 said:

    You can't really argue with your timeline...but nor can you with "We along with his staff, managers and players have been lied to, manipulated and treated with utter contempt. I would also love RD's "plan" to work, but at what cost/ Are we all plastics now? No! We have followed this club of ours (yes, ours!) for many years and do not want it to be a plaything for anyone. It has to be the heart and soul of the community, for the fans, by the fans. We have had a vision previously, now we just want it back again. RD's and KM's like it or lump it plea is a failure to recognise what makes Charlton special.

    We were all excited when we were linked with the rich Yank - we would have been his 'plaything'. I prefer that RD is trying to do it the 'Right way'.
    The like it or lump it, was admittedly an error in judgement on the club's part which could have been handled differently.

    Could you elaborate on the staff, managers and players being lied to, manipulated and treated with contempt?
    Would you call leaving us with just 3 senior strikers (one of which is Church) doing it "the right way"? A year after Kermorgant left we still haven't replaced him, and in January we let Tucudean go out on loan without bringing in a replacement. Watt did come in but we needed another striker before we let anyone go.

    If we manage to stay up are you confident enough in RD that we won't be in the same position in a years time, battling relegation with a small and incomplete squad? Signings don't have to be £5m players, I can't believe there's not even a young affordable striker out there we could have taken on loan just to give us another option.
    3 senior strikers is a little short, I agree. Although GT was getting pelters on here so we may as well have let him go as he was never going to get a chance. We have the loan window to make up numbers. I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they want the right player at the right price.

    KAG makes it 4 recognised strikers and JP could be recalled if required
  • edited February 2015
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  • Going to take me more than one game to be convinced TBF. But I admire your optimism.

    I think Bob being publicly supported in a programme and sacked the next day might constitute a manager being lied to, BTW?

    Maybe so, how about the possibility that the programme went to print (thursday?) and on Friday KM and RD are made aware of a major falling out due to word / actions of the management team....would you want them to keep BP employed for another week / fortnight just because of an article in the programme?
  • IAgree said:

    Oh dear joined in November 2014. Virtually no posts. Hate to do this because people used to do it to me however ........... Hmmmm Frank or Katien?

    Here goes; Sacking CP, selling Kermogant, hiring Riga, in essence sacking Riga, hiring BP, lying to BP about how secure his job was, sacking BP, dennying rumours that GL was coming our way only for him to pop up a few days later, his wife following the Charlton Twitter feed weeks before GL was appointed (like you do), the " search" for new manger, lying to us about the search for a manger, the recruitment process including 20 applicant that was over before it was started, lying to us about that, the appointment of GL, the " fans will have to get used to it" comments, the constant club based rumours about big signings which amounted to nothing, the new Alex Fergusson comments, the history of involvement with other clubs, the numerous and consistent posts by the fans of other clubs, the RD quotation......... Probably missed loads. I would call all of that lying and manipulation personally.

    Still never mind you will be given a job at one of RDs other clubs " frank".

    Yes nice to see the club worried enough to post on here
  • IAgree said:

    Oh dear joined in November 2014. Virtually no posts. Hate to do this because people used to do it to me however ........... Hmmmm Frank or Katien?

    Here goes; Sacking CP, selling Kermogant, hiring Riga, in essence sacking Riga, hiring BP, lying to BP about how secure his job was, sacking BP, dennying rumours that GL was coming our way only for him to pop up a few days later, his wife following the Charlton Twitter feed weeks before GL was appointed (like you do), the " search" for new manger, lying to us about the search for a manger, the recruitment process including 20 applicant that was over before it was started, lying to us about that, the appointment of GL, the " fans will have to get used to it" comments, the constant club based rumours about big signings which amounted to nothing, the new Alex Fergusson comments, the history of involvement with other clubs, the numerous and consistent posts by the fans of other clubs, the RD quotation......... Probably missed loads. I would call all of that lying and manipulation personally.

    Still never mind you will be given a job at one of RDs other clubs " frank".

    Yes, you are right. As a multimillionaire businessman, I love nothing more than contributing to a forum on a Sunday lunchtime.


    I am not saying that the club have gone about all things the right way, but what I would suggest is that actually they currently can do no right - no matter what they say or do. Is it a possibility that they have said these things to try and be more communicative with fans, but have mis-judged it, nothing more, nothing less?
  • Great team performance yesterday with 8 players brought in by RD and with a new manager. If Luzon turns out to the manager RD thinks he is and we carry on playing this way job done. I have no interest what goes on behind the scenes just what happens on the pitch.
    IF we have turned the corner and RD has now got to grip with what the Championship is all about then there is a lot to look forward to. We have to wait and see
  • Don't let your highs be too high and your lows too low
  • Going to take me more than one game to be convinced TBF. But I admire your optimism.

    I think Bob being publicly supported in a programme and sacked the next day might constitute a manager being lied to, BTW?

    Maybe so, how about the possibility that the programme went to print (thursday?) and on Friday KM and RD are made aware of a major falling out due to word / actions of the management team....would you want them to keep BP employed for another week / fortnight just because of an article in the programme?
    You didn't ask for complicated "maybe" scenarios TBF, you asked for people to elaborate on where staff had been lied to - my version of events is far more likely than yours, given the evidence presented...
  • Going to take me more than one game to be convinced TBF. But I admire your optimism.

    I think Bob being publicly supported in a programme and sacked the next day might constitute a manager being lied to, BTW?

    Maybe so, how about the possibility that the programme went to print (thursday?) and on Friday KM and RD are made aware of a major falling out due to word / actions of the management team....would you want them to keep BP employed for another week / fortnight just because of an article in the programme?
    You didn't ask for complicated "maybe" scenarios TBF, you asked for people to elaborate on where staff had been lied to - my version of events is far more likely than yours, given the evidence presented...
    Ok, fair enough.

    How many other teams would write in the programme that the manager's job is under threat
  • Going to take me more than one game to be convinced TBF. But I admire your optimism.

    I think Bob being publicly supported in a programme and sacked the next day might constitute a manager being lied to, BTW?

    Maybe so, how about the possibility that the programme went to print (thursday?) and on Friday KM and RD are made aware of a major falling out due to word / actions of the management team....would you want them to keep BP employed for another week / fortnight just because of an article in the programme?
    You didn't ask for complicated "maybe" scenarios TBF, you asked for people to elaborate on where staff had been lied to - my version of events is far more likely than yours, given the evidence presented...
    Ok, fair enough.

    How many other teams would write in the programme that the manager's job is under threat
    Again, not what was asked. Please stop trying to move the goalposts. You asked a question, I answered it.
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  • Initially we were reservedly optimistic, now we are rightfully sceptical. His master plan is so alien to our footballing makeup it is hard to trust him, so far he has done little to earn our trust.
  • Great team performance yesterday with 8 players brought in by RD and with a new manager. If Luzon turns out to the manager RD thinks he is and we carry on playing this way job done. I have no interest what goes on behind the scenes just what happens on the pitch.
    IF we have turned the corner and RD has now got to grip with what the Championship is all about then there is a lot to look forward to. We have to wait and see

    Another one
  • kentred2 said:

    Great team performance yesterday with 8 players brought in by RD and with a new manager. If Luzon turns out to the manager RD thinks he is and we carry on playing this way job done. I have no interest what goes on behind the scenes just what happens on the pitch.
    IF we have turned the corner and RD has now got to grip with what the Championship is all about then there is a lot to look forward to. We have to wait and see

    Another one
    ?
  • I have no doubt a network type system can be of help to a club. Take Watford as an example: one play-off final and might be due another round of play-offs this season.

    Unfortunately I think one of the drawbacks of a network is that it lessens the margins for error across all clubs in that network. And in the past 12 months our club has made a lot of errors, while continually refusing any sort of help from supporter bodies.
  • Going to take me more than one game to be convinced TBF. But I admire your optimism.

    I think Bob being publicly supported in a programme and sacked the next day might constitute a manager being lied to, BTW?

    Maybe so, how about the possibility that the programme went to print (thursday?) and on Friday KM and RD are made aware of a major falling out due to word / actions of the management team....would you want them to keep BP employed for another week / fortnight just because of an article in the programme?
    You didn't ask for complicated "maybe" scenarios TBF, you asked for people to elaborate on where staff had been lied to - my version of events is far more likely than yours, given the evidence presented...
    Ok, fair enough.

    How many other teams would write in the programme that the manager's job is under threat
    Again, not what was asked. Please stop trying to move the goalposts. You asked a question, I answered it.
    You did, and I appreciate the answer...I am just offering up a possible explanation to the 'lie' given to BP.
  • kentred2 said:

    Great team performance yesterday with 8 players brought in by RD and with a new manager. If Luzon turns out to the manager RD thinks he is and we carry on playing this way job done. I have no interest what goes on behind the scenes just what happens on the pitch.
    IF we have turned the corner and RD has now got to grip with what the Championship is all about then there is a lot to look forward to. We have to wait and see

    Another one
    To be fair @kentred2, you've hardly been prolific yourself with your 380 posts in 6 years
  • edited February 2015

    Its not just how the club is being run but also how the club is seen to be run. Maybe if RD or even Katrien explained things a little better (maybe if they told us this was the plan) and showed an ounce of respect to the club and the fans. Because of the lack of communication all we have to go on is 4 managers in a year, a lot of unsuccessful network rejects and lies from the board.

    I would argue there was just as many successful network 'triumphs'
    Scoham said:

    Pedro45 said:

    You can't really argue with your timeline...but nor can you with "We along with his staff, managers and players have been lied to, manipulated and treated with utter contempt. I would also love RD's "plan" to work, but at what cost/ Are we all plastics now? No! We have followed this club of ours (yes, ours!) for many years and do not want it to be a plaything for anyone. It has to be the heart and soul of the community, for the fans, by the fans. We have had a vision previously, now we just want it back again. RD's and KM's like it or lump it plea is a failure to recognise what makes Charlton special.

    We were all excited when we were linked with the rich Yank - we would have been his 'plaything'. I prefer that RD is trying to do it the 'Right way'.
    The like it or lump it, was admittedly an error in judgement on the club's part which could have been handled differently.

    Could you elaborate on the staff, managers and players being lied to, manipulated and treated with contempt?
    Would you call leaving us with just 3 senior strikers (one of which is Church) doing it "the right way"? A year after Kermorgant left we still haven't replaced him, and in January we let Tucudean go out on loan without bringing in a replacement. Watt did come in but we needed another striker before we let anyone go.

    If we manage to stay up are you confident enough in RD that we won't be in the same position in a years time, battling relegation with a small and incomplete squad? Signings don't have to be £5m players, I can't believe there's not even a young affordable striker out there we could have taken on loan just to give us another option.
    3 senior strikers is a little short, I agree. Although GT was getting pelters on here so we may as well have let him go as he was never going to get a chance. We have the loan window to make up numbers. I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they want the right player at the right price.

    KAG makes it 4 recognised strikers and JP could be recalled if required
    Wouldn't call any tiumphs. Some better than others yes. Players like Solly, Jackson, Kermorgant will always be the heartbeat of the team, I wonder how they will replace Jackson when he eventually goes. Will it be some Standard Liege reject who has no idea about English football.
  • Its not just how the club is being run but also how the club is seen to be run. Maybe if RD or even Katrien explained things a little better (maybe if they told us this was the plan) and showed an ounce of respect to the club and the fans. Because of the lack of communication all we have to go on is 4 managers in a year, a lot of unsuccessful network rejects and lies from the board.

    I would argue there was just as many successful network 'triumphs'
    Scoham said:

    Pedro45 said:

    You can't really argue with your timeline...but nor can you with "We along with his staff, managers and players have been lied to, manipulated and treated with utter contempt. I would also love RD's "plan" to work, but at what cost/ Are we all plastics now? No! We have followed this club of ours (yes, ours!) for many years and do not want it to be a plaything for anyone. It has to be the heart and soul of the community, for the fans, by the fans. We have had a vision previously, now we just want it back again. RD's and KM's like it or lump it plea is a failure to recognise what makes Charlton special.

    We were all excited when we were linked with the rich Yank - we would have been his 'plaything'. I prefer that RD is trying to do it the 'Right way'.
    The like it or lump it, was admittedly an error in judgement on the club's part which could have been handled differently.

    Could you elaborate on the staff, managers and players being lied to, manipulated and treated with contempt?
    Would you call leaving us with just 3 senior strikers (one of which is Church) doing it "the right way"? A year after Kermorgant left we still haven't replaced him, and in January we let Tucudean go out on loan without bringing in a replacement. Watt did come in but we needed another striker before we let anyone go.

    If we manage to stay up are you confident enough in RD that we won't be in the same position in a years time, battling relegation with a small and incomplete squad? Signings don't have to be £5m players, I can't believe there's not even a young affordable striker out there we could have taken on loan just to give us another option.
    3 senior strikers is a little short, I agree. Although GT was getting pelters on here so we may as well have let him go as he was never going to get a chance. We have the loan window to make up numbers. I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they want the right player at the right price.

    KAG makes it 4 recognised strikers and JP could be recalled if required
    Wouldn't call any tiumphs. Some better than others yes.
    Ok then, by that way of thinking, I wouldn't call them unsuccessful as per your original post, just 'some not as good as others'
  • Franck - I bet you couldn't wait for our long awaited win to post that could you.
  • Its not just how the club is being run but also how the club is seen to be run. Maybe if RD or even Katrien explained things a little better (maybe if they told us this was the plan) and showed an ounce of respect to the club and the fans. Because of the lack of communication all we have to go on is 4 managers in a year, a lot of unsuccessful network rejects and lies from the board.

    I would argue there was just as many successful network 'triumphs'
    Scoham said:

    Pedro45 said:

    You can't really argue with your timeline...but nor can you with "We along with his staff, managers and players have been lied to, manipulated and treated with utter contempt. I would also love RD's "plan" to work, but at what cost/ Are we all plastics now? No! We have followed this club of ours (yes, ours!) for many years and do not want it to be a plaything for anyone. It has to be the heart and soul of the community, for the fans, by the fans. We have had a vision previously, now we just want it back again. RD's and KM's like it or lump it plea is a failure to recognise what makes Charlton special.

    We were all excited when we were linked with the rich Yank - we would have been his 'plaything'. I prefer that RD is trying to do it the 'Right way'.
    The like it or lump it, was admittedly an error in judgement on the club's part which could have been handled differently.

    Could you elaborate on the staff, managers and players being lied to, manipulated and treated with contempt?
    Would you call leaving us with just 3 senior strikers (one of which is Church) doing it "the right way"? A year after Kermorgant left we still haven't replaced him, and in January we let Tucudean go out on loan without bringing in a replacement. Watt did come in but we needed another striker before we let anyone go.

    If we manage to stay up are you confident enough in RD that we won't be in the same position in a years time, battling relegation with a small and incomplete squad? Signings don't have to be £5m players, I can't believe there's not even a young affordable striker out there we could have taken on loan just to give us another option.
    3 senior strikers is a little short, I agree. Although GT was getting pelters on here so we may as well have let him go as he was never going to get a chance. We have the loan window to make up numbers. I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they want the right player at the right price.

    KAG makes it 4 recognised strikers and JP could be recalled if required
    Wouldn't call any tiumphs. Some better than others yes.
    Ok then, by that way of thinking, I wouldn't call them unsuccessful as per your original post, just 'some not as good as others'
    Unsuccessful isn't the opposite of triumph.
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