What I do not get is all the discussion going on, on this thread, It is quiet simple a public meeting has been called for so fans can voice their concerns, if the fans who are happy with the present situation turn up and listen, I am sure they will be allowed to defend their views. Coming on here as a keyboard warrior with probably no intention of going to the meeting makes no sense. Perhaps the mood of the fans has been overestimated, but unless this is demonstrated by people in person at this meeting we will never know.
This. I think there's a bit of hypocrisy on CL about the trust. "I won't do it, but anyone else that does it is being too big for their boots". The famous English 'can't-do' attitude.
To get RD to listen? To get RD out? To smoke out a new buyer?
as with UKIP I get a feeling I know what you're against, I just have no idea what your campaigning for
There is no campaign - a public meeting has been called, nothing more and nothing less. Of course the results of the public meeting might lead to more and that might have an "aim" but you're asking questions which cannot be answered until the meeting has taken place, afterwards you can decide who's against what and who seems like UKIP.
It's not hard to imagine though,is it?
There will be much talk of 'Ripping the heart and soul out of our club,'feeder club','Standard rejects','Liars','Belgian' etc,and assuming the meeting doesn't turn into a bun-fight,it will be decided that a demand is made of the owner for more transparency/information regarding the long term plans and direction of the club with a representative body of supporters.
Then look back to the opening post where the Trust wrote to KM '...to follow up our offer to discuss the growing anxiety of supporters about the direction of the club,and how they might be involved.'
The response was,'disappointing'
...she declined any dialogue on the vital matter of where the club is heading ...she had nothing more to tell supporters regarding the direction of the club ...she insisted that fans would just 'need to accept' the owners way.
Once the 'aim' is something tangibly coherent,does anyone one think the response will be any different from the above because some fans have a meeting? I'm not pooh-poohing the meeting or the Trust - specifically Razil,who unlike a lot of other busy bodies pursuing their own personal vanity projects,I have the utmost respect for - but RD has seen pitch protests,had his office stormed and didn't even blink,one wonders if he will even read any declaration that results from the meeting.
I know this is coming across as apathetic/defeatist and will attract accusations of such,but RD is wholly indifferent to the protests of his clubs' supporters and we are no different. I will continue to go and support the team which is what they need at the moment.
Redskin - you may be right. It may be that, whatever supporters say or do, RD will pay no attention at all. He owns the club and he doesn't have to sell. He may well just carry on mismanaging us into oblivion.
But, in that scenario I would be hate to think that he did it without me making some sort of protest, however feeble.
Even if everything I did or said was just a futile, ignored gesture. At least I would know I'd made a gesture.
To get RD to listen? To get RD out? To smoke out a new buyer?
as with UKIP I get a feeling I know what you're against, I just have no idea what your campaigning for
There is no campaign - a public meeting has been called, nothing more and nothing less. Of course the results of the public meeting might lead to more and that might have an "aim" but you're asking questions which cannot be answered until the meeting has taken place, afterwards you can decide who's against what and who seems like UKIP.
It's not hard to imagine though,is it?
There will be much talk of 'Ripping the heart and soul out of our club,'feeder club','Standard rejects','Liars','Belgian' etc,and assuming the meeting doesn't turn into a bun-fight,it will be decided that a demand is made of the owner for more transparency/information regarding the long term plans and direction of the club with a representative body of supporters.
Then look back to the opening post where the Trust wrote to KM '...to follow up our offer to discuss the growing anxiety of supporters about the direction of the club,and how they might be involved.'
The response was,'disappointing'
...she declined any dialogue on the vital matter of where the club is heading ...she had nothing more to tell supporters regarding the direction of the club ...she insisted that fans would just 'need to accept' the owners way.
Once the 'aim' is something tangibly coherent,does anyone one think the response will be any different to the above because some fans have a meeting? I'm not pooh-poohing the meeting or the Trust - specifically Razil,who unlike a lot of other busy bodies pursuing their own personal vanity projects,I have the utmost respect for - but RD has seen pitch protests,had his office stormed and didn't even blink,one wonders if he will even read any declaration that results from the meeting.
I know this is coming across as apathetic/defeatist and will attract accusations of such,but RD is wholly indifferent to the protests of his clubs' supporters and we are no different. I will continue to go and support the team which is what they need at the moment.
It's difficult to say. With a collective approach involving all the major fan groups it's possible that the club will take things more seriously.
I don't think that's the way the meeting should go, I think it should be about putting facts on the table and finding a way of transmitting that message and facts to those who don't hold the same view
There is no.point just asking the club for more communication on.the direction of the club and it's business intent, it is not going to get any answer at all
Don't waste valuable time at the meeting repeating the common thoughts been said on here anyway
As it will be a lot of chest banging rowdy crowd raising nonsense
To get RD to listen? To get RD out? To smoke out a new buyer?
as with UKIP I get a feeling I know what you're against, I just have no idea what your campaigning for
There is no campaign - a public meeting has been called, nothing more and nothing less. Of course the results of the public meeting might lead to more and that might have an "aim" but you're asking questions which cannot be answered until the meeting has taken place, afterwards you can decide who's against what and who seems like UKIP.
It's not hard to imagine though,is it?
There will be much talk of 'Ripping the heart and soul out of our club,'feeder club','Standard rejects','Liars','Belgian' etc,and assuming the meeting doesn't turn into a bun-fight,it will be decided that a demand is made of the owner for more transparency/information regarding the long term plans and direction of the club with a representative body of supporters.
Then look back to the opening post where the Trust wrote to KM '...to follow up our offer to discuss the growing anxiety of supporters about the direction of the club,and how they might be involved.'
The response was,'disappointing'
...she declined any dialogue on the vital matter of where the club is heading ...she had nothing more to tell supporters regarding the direction of the club ...she insisted that fans would just 'need to accept' the owners way.
Once the 'aim' is something tangibly coherent,does anyone one think the response will be any different from the above because some fans have a meeting? I'm not pooh-poohing the meeting or the Trust - specifically Razil,who unlike a lot of other busy bodies pursuing their own personal vanity projects,I have the utmost respect for - but RD has seen pitch protests,had his office stormed and didn't even blink,one wonders if he will even read any declaration that results from the meeting.
I know this is coming across as apathetic/defeatist and will attract accusations of such,but RD is wholly indifferent to the protests of his clubs' supporters and we are no different. I will continue to go and support the team which is what they need at the moment.
You can imagine anything, why prejudice the meeting by drawing conclusions before it's taken place ?
Can't see it even getting anywhere near even 20k despite footy for a fiver and Chrissy P's homecoming. People just aren't bothered, that's part of the general malaise many are talking about. Whether the heart is being ripped out if the club or not, the fact is it's a bore and for me at least, a chore to Attend Games Right Now. VIVE LE REVOLUTION!
Agreed, it won't sell out, but providing the effort has been made to market it beyond the normal fan base it should still get to 20,000 because it attracts a tranche of people who are not supporters and won't be plugged in to developments.
With all the goings on, Mr Powell is going to get one hell of an ovation(and quite rightly so).
Reckon there will be a Chrissy Powell's Red n White army sometime during the game.
If this meeting is on the Wednesday 18th and the loan window opens on the Tuesday 17th, perhaps RD will panic into getting us in a big striker and attacking midfielder, but then he might just prove he does not give a dam about us and do nothing.
I don't think that's the way the meeting should go, I think it should be about putting facts on the table and finding a way of transmitting that message and facts to those who don't hold the same view
There is no.point just asking the club for more communication on.the direction of the club and it's business intent, it is not going to get any answer at all
Don't waste valuable time at the meeting repeating the common thoughts been said on here anyway
As it will be a lot of chest banging rowdy crowd raising nonsense
I don't think that's the way the meeting should go, I think it should be about putting facts on the table and finding a way of transmitting that message and facts to those who don't hold the same view
There is no.point just asking the club for more communication on.the direction of the club and it's business intent, it is not going to get any answer at all
Don't waste valuable time at the meeting repeating the common thoughts been said on here anyway
As it will be a lot of chest banging rowdy crowd raising nonsense
The same sort of nonsense that got us back to the Valley?
I don't think that's the way the meeting should go, I think it should be about putting facts on the table and finding a way of transmitting that message and facts to those who don't hold the same view
There is no.point just asking the club for more communication on.the direction of the club and it's business intent, it is not going to get any answer at all
Don't waste valuable time at the meeting repeating the common thoughts been said on here anyway
As it will be a lot of chest banging rowdy crowd raising nonsense
I don't think that's the way the meeting should go, I think it should be about putting facts on the table and finding a way of transmitting that message and facts to those who don't hold the same view
There is no.point just asking the club for more communication on.the direction of the club and it's business intent, it is not going to get any answer at all
Don't waste valuable time at the meeting repeating the common thoughts been said on here anyway
As it will be a lot of chest banging rowdy crowd raising nonsense
The same sort of nonsense that got us back to the Valley?
I don't think that's the way the meeting should go, I think it should be about putting facts on the table and finding a way of transmitting that message and facts to those who don't hold the same view
There is no.point just asking the club for more communication on.the direction of the club and it's business intent, it is not going to get any answer at all
Don't waste valuable time at the meeting repeating the common thoughts been said on here anyway
As it will be a lot of chest banging rowdy crowd raising nonsense
I don't think that's the way the meeting should go, I think it should be about putting facts on the table and finding a way of transmitting that message and facts to those who don't hold the same view
There is no.point just asking the club for more communication on.the direction of the club and it's business intent, it is not going to get any answer at all
Don't waste valuable time at the meeting repeating the common thoughts been said on here anyway
As it will be a lot of chest banging rowdy crowd raising nonsense
The same sort of nonsense that got us back to the Valley?
I'd be as ecstatic as anyone if the meeting ultimately achieves some dialogue with RD, which is what its aim should be. For that to happen you need 2 willing parties. From evidence to date, RD will not be scared into agreeing a meet, he'll need constructive persuasion. I very much hope it can be mustered.
You miss understand obviously, when you had the bttv campaign it was a clear concise message based on a plan with factual inputs and things that were plain to see
Right now the focus of the meeting shouldn't be to rouse the crowd into action
You have done that or the meeting wouldn't be happening, but I will lay a fair few quid that in the meeting the numbers will struggle to reach ten to fifteen percent of the trust members, not that I am saying it's exclusive to trust members but if there's 1500 members then I reckon you will get 150 / 200 in attendance
Your focus should be how to swell that number to 400/500 fans
That's not a great deal of people from a fan base circa 12000 and continue your focus to increase that by 2-3 %
Then you will get your message across but people want facts not fears and feeling
Redskin - you may be right. It may be that, whatever supporters say or do, RD will pay no attention at all. He owns the club and he doesn't have to sell. He may well just carry on mismanaging us into oblivion.
But, in that scenario I would be hate to think that he did it without me making some sort of protest, however feeble.
Even if everything I did or said was just a futile, ignored gesture. At least I would know I'd made a gesture.
Exactly. A meeting of the trust and other fans may do no good whatsoever, but it just might, and isn't it worth having a try? We have nothing to lose as our club is slowly being taken away from us anyway.
You miss understand obviously, when you had the bttv campaign it was a clear concise message based on a plan with factual inputs and things that were plain to see
Right now the focus of the meeting shouldn't be to rouse the crowd into action
You have done that or the meeting wouldn't be happening, but I will lay a fair few quid that in the meeting the numbers will struggle to reach ten to fifteen percent of the trust members, not that I am saying it's exclusive to trust members but if there's 1500 members then I reckon you will get 150 / 200 in attendance
Your focus should be how to swell that number to 400/500 fans
That's not a great deal of people from a fan base circa 12000 and continue your focus to increase that by 2-3 %
Then you will get your message across but people want facts not fears and feeling
The idea of the meeting isn't to "rouse the crowd into action" it is exactly to develop "a clear concise message" with broad support from all supporters, Trust members or not.
Now the "clear concise message" the meeting will hopefully debelop may be backed up by an action(s) which support it, but they - like the BTTV campaign - should also be clear and considered.
This is the text from the Trusts statement - not much about "rousing" here;
"This meeting is intended to be an opportunity to bring together as many as possible of the various organisational, internet and publication elements of the Charlton family, as well as individual supporters, and secure the widest possible mandate for any approach we jointly decide to adopt."
And the Trust has nothing like 1,500 members, much closer to 1,100 so 15% should be around 160 which I think will be about the number on the night.
You miss understand obviously, when you had the bttv campaign it was a clear concise message based on a plan with factual inputs and things that were plain to see
Right now the focus of the meeting shouldn't be to rouse the crowd into action
You have done that or the meeting wouldn't be happening, but I will lay a fair few quid that in the meeting the numbers will struggle to reach ten to fifteen percent of the trust members, not that I am saying it's exclusive to trust members but if there's 1500 members then I reckon you will get 150 / 200 in attendance
Your focus should be how to swell that number to 400/500 fans
That's not a great deal of people from a fan base circa 12000 and continue your focus to increase that by 2-3 %
Then you will get your message across but people want facts not fears and feeling
Who's talking about "rouse the crowd into action"? Nobody. The air of apathy and resignation at the Rotherham game was awful. People are going to find they have better things to do on a Saturday than sit on their hands and watch that sort of stuff(a bit like you yourself have done). The meeting has been called as a first step. I think we all know Roly won't listen, but what harm can be done by the fans having an exchange of views?
and how will you feel if you get 160 fans in that room, will you think it's an indication that your concerns are represented of a high percentage of the fan base
Because I wouldn't think that's a good enough number to say that your feelings are shared amongst enough other people
The trust is to reflect the feelings of the highest support group in percentage surely not those with the lowest numbers
And I really do hope that before anything is done that is potentially damaging to your message or the clubs future , the first focus of the group is how to raise greater numbers of supporters to the view that is being raised
and how will you feel if you get 160 fans in that room, will you think it's an indication that your concerns are represented of a high percentage of the fan base
Because I wouldn't think that's a good enough number to say that your feelings are shared amongst enough other people
The trust is to reflect the feelings of the highest support group in percentage surely not those with the lowest numbers
And I really do hope that before anything is done that is potentially damaging to your message or the clubs future , the first focus of the group is how to raise greater numbers of supporters to the view that is being raised
But it won't just be x number of people in a room, it'll also be the countless others who couldn't attend that are making their feelings known via our website (and in fairness on forums like this).
Clearly we can't go to the house of every Charlton fan on earth and ask them their opinion, but we can give every Charlton fan on earth a way to tell us their opinion.
Low numbers? Even the greatest movements have humble beginnings. They begin from the ground up. Alternatively, stop trolling NLA.
I am not trolling at all
I am wondering when people will realise that the sentiments are not supported by the bigger number and how they will grow those figures because without greater numbers there is no way you will change anything
Low numbers? Even the greatest movements have humble beginnings. They begin from the ground up. Alternatively, stop trolling NLA.
I am not trolling at all
I am wondering when people will realise that the sentiments are not supported by the bigger number and how they will grow those figures because without greater numbers there is no way you will change anything
But without a meeting of "the lower numbers" to articulate their sentiments into something coherent how can you possibly say that the "greater numbers" won't support the message (which doesn't exist yet) ?
I think your misunderstanding the purpose of the meeting, you seem to assume there's some already agreed upon message - again, please read the extract from the Trust statement I've pasted, I'm not sure it can be made much clearer.
I will be going and I just hope that ordinary Charlton fans will have their say. I also hope that egos, points scoring and arrogance are left at home. We need to all pull together for the good of the Club. Whether the owner or Meire will listen is another matter.
And that's what I have said se9 that I hope the message is nit lost amongst rousing the crowd, and more about how you spread the word of what builds your fears, but make them factual not just emotional
I think the Trust membership should include in its count our subscribers as non paying members c1700 and particulalry when there isn't a financial crisis or fundraising issue. Other Trusts like Leeds i think do, so more like 3000. Plus facebook and twitter nearly 2,5k and the number is around 5000.
and how will you feel if you get 160 fans in that room, will you think it's an indication that your concerns are represented of a high percentage of the fan base
Because I wouldn't think that's a good enough number to say that your feelings are shared amongst enough other people
The trust is to reflect the feelings of the highest support group in percentage surely not those with the lowest numbers
And I really do hope that before anything is done that is potentially damaging to your message or the clubs future , the first focus of the group is how to raise greater numbers of supporters to the view that is being raised
With respect NLA I think you're placing far too much emphasis on the absolute numbers of attendees of a meeting that hasn't happened yet.
For any organisation to get 10% of even it's most committed stakeholders to attend a voluntary meeting would be considered an achievement in most circumstances. Its not directly comparable of course but look at the turnout in most elections for example and how many of us have ever turned up to a council meeting (...well post Valley Party anyway).
You are also overlooking that if the meeting "only" gets 150 people attending, they are perhaps far more likely to be committed to achieving an successful outcome than the "average supporter" and willing to give their time, resources and expertise accordingly.
It is an open meeting held in addition to the numerous discussions held elsewhere where many, many supporters have raised their concerns about the lack of communication, etc from the club. Some fans are less concerned than others, that's fair enough and they have had every opportunity to put forward their view and indeed to attend the meeting should they wish. So I disagree that the aim of the meeting is to suggest it represents everyone's views and doubt this was ever the intention.
I absolutely agree the outcome of the meeting must be a clear, concise explanation of what a significant proportion of the clubs fan base see as a problem and what action could be taken to address these issues rather than it being an opportunity for the most vocal attendees to push their individual agenda. I have every confidence this will be properly facilitated.
Comments
I think there's a bit of hypocrisy on CL about the trust. "I won't do it, but anyone else that does it is being too big for their boots". The famous English 'can't-do' attitude.
There will be much talk of 'Ripping the heart and soul out of our club,'feeder club','Standard rejects','Liars','Belgian' etc,and assuming the meeting doesn't turn into a bun-fight,it will be decided that a demand is made of the owner for more transparency/information regarding the long term plans and direction of the club with a representative body of supporters.
Then look back to the opening post where the Trust wrote to KM '...to follow up our offer to discuss the growing anxiety of supporters about the direction of the club,and how they might be involved.'
The response was,'disappointing'
...she declined any dialogue on the vital matter of where the club is heading
...she had nothing more to tell supporters regarding the direction of the club
...she insisted that fans would just 'need to accept' the owners way.
Once the 'aim' is something tangibly coherent,does anyone one think the response will be any different from the above because some fans have a meeting?
I'm not pooh-poohing the meeting or the Trust - specifically Razil,who unlike a lot of other busy bodies pursuing their own personal vanity projects,I have the utmost respect for - but RD has seen pitch protests,had his office stormed and didn't even blink,one wonders if he will even read any declaration that results from the meeting.
I know this is coming across as apathetic/defeatist and will attract accusations of such,but RD is wholly indifferent to the protests of his clubs' supporters and we are no different.
I will continue to go and support the team which is what they need at the moment.
But, in that scenario I would be hate to think that he did it without me making some sort of protest, however feeble.
Even if everything I did or said was just a futile, ignored gesture. At least I would know I'd made a gesture.
There is no.point just asking the club for more communication on.the direction of the club and it's business intent, it is not going to get any answer at all
Don't waste valuable time at the meeting repeating the common thoughts been said on here anyway
As it will be a lot of chest banging rowdy crowd raising nonsense
Reckon there will be a Chrissy Powell's Red n White army sometime during the game.
And how about "Duchatelet, Duchatelet, you've buggered up my Saturday" ?
Right now the focus of the meeting shouldn't be to rouse the crowd into action
You have done that or the meeting wouldn't be happening, but I will lay a fair few quid that in the meeting the numbers will struggle to reach ten to fifteen percent of the trust members, not that I am saying it's exclusive to trust members but if there's 1500 members then I reckon you will get 150 / 200 in attendance
Your focus should be how to swell that number to 400/500 fans
That's not a great deal of people from a fan base circa 12000 and continue your focus to increase that by 2-3 %
Then you will get your message across but people want facts not fears and feeling
Now the "clear concise message" the meeting will hopefully debelop may be backed up by an action(s) which support it, but they - like the BTTV campaign - should also be clear and considered.
This is the text from the Trusts statement - not much about "rousing" here;
"This meeting is intended to be an opportunity to bring together as many as possible of the various organisational, internet and publication elements of the Charlton family, as well as individual supporters, and secure the widest possible mandate for any approach we jointly decide to adopt."
And the Trust has nothing like 1,500 members, much closer to 1,100 so 15% should be around 160 which I think will be about the number on the night.
The air of apathy and resignation at the Rotherham game was awful. People are going to find they have better things to do on a Saturday than sit on their hands and watch that sort of stuff(a bit like you yourself have done). The meeting has been called as a first step. I think we all know Roly won't listen, but what harm can be done by the fans having an exchange of views?
Because I wouldn't think that's a good enough number to say that your feelings are shared amongst enough other people
The trust is to reflect the feelings of the highest support group in percentage surely not those with the lowest numbers
And I really do hope that before anything is done that is potentially damaging to your message or the clubs future , the first focus of the group is how to raise greater numbers of supporters to the view that is being raised
Clearly we can't go to the house of every Charlton fan on earth and ask them their opinion, but we can give every Charlton fan on earth a way to tell us their opinion.
I am not trolling at all
I am wondering when people will realise that the sentiments are not supported by the bigger number and how they will grow those figures because without greater numbers there is no way you will change anything
I think your misunderstanding the purpose of the meeting, you seem to assume there's some already agreed upon message - again, please read the extract from the Trust statement I've pasted, I'm not sure it can be made much clearer.
For any organisation to get 10% of even it's most committed stakeholders to attend a voluntary meeting would be considered an achievement in most circumstances. Its not directly comparable of course but look at the turnout in most elections for example and how many of us have ever turned up to a council meeting (...well post Valley Party anyway).
You are also overlooking that if the meeting "only" gets 150 people attending, they are perhaps far more likely to be committed to achieving an successful outcome than the "average supporter" and willing to give their time, resources and expertise accordingly.
It is an open meeting held in addition to the numerous discussions held elsewhere where many, many supporters have raised their concerns about the lack of communication, etc from the club. Some fans are less concerned than others, that's fair enough and they have had every opportunity to put forward their view and indeed to attend the meeting should they wish. So I disagree that the aim of the meeting is to suggest it represents everyone's views and doubt this was ever the intention.
I absolutely agree the outcome of the meeting must be a clear, concise explanation of what a significant proportion of the clubs fan base see as a problem and what action could be taken to address these issues rather than it being an opportunity for the most vocal attendees to push their individual agenda. I have every confidence this will be properly facilitated.