We were flatter than a whitches tit alot of the time today, looking like we were struggling to get out of 3rd gear a far too many times.
Birmingham had a good result against Millwall in the week so they would be riding high, as should we have been after Norwich. Was always going to be tricky and we would need to compete and dominate for a majority of the game, we didn't.
What really shocked me today was the awful level of passing all over the pitch or controlling of the ball. Consistant players such as Buyens were giving away the ball so cheaply or making poor decisions, with long balls to no one.
Thought Wiggins had a good game against that tricky right winger today. Henderson was solid, great claim near the end from a cross field cross and each game that goes by it is easier to forget Hamer.
Still undefeated and still looking dangerous at times to worry teams. But we need to take it to teams who are there for the taking.
1 Why change 4-2-3-1 when ahead? 2 Jackson (for several seasons) is too slow in a 4-4-2 3 Once sides press high we continue to have only the 2CBs wide or Buyens option. Why not bring FBs back and play out? Result is SH hoof. 4 We still drop deep too easily.
I did miss the 1st min of 2nd half, along with quite a few others who were still drinking up.
Should lawrie have scored ?
He didn't have a lot of time but had a clear view at goal. Looked like he side-footed it and just got under the ball a little too much but he hit it with plenty of power.
think you are being too kind. my answer to that question is yes he should.
For balance (Wilson), I remember twice in the second half when trying to attack, Wilson making himself available for a pass from Solly, twice Solly ignored him and punted the ball up to someone who was being marked instead.
Frustrated as everyone else that we didn't win today. However we are very much work in progress. After an excellent20 minutes there is no doubt Clark changed their tacticts and we didn't respond> Peters is till learning and if in a years time we don't win this game then that would be a worry. We have come a long way in the last few months and need to be a bit more patient
Shame we switched the formation after going ahead. I'd rather we had risked them getting more space down our left as we'd have probably been more threatening going forwards.
What's frustrating is we're only a player or two from this being a very good team (though perhaps not squad). Clearly need a targetman to partner Igor and perhaps a playmaker in midfield. A Kermorgant and a Reid (Andy) could add so more to this team.
As in a number of games now we needed a second but couldn't get it. Peeters is trying to get us playing his style but at the same time looking to get results with what we have. It's not always exciting but it's better than most of last season and to me it feels like it's just the start. Before the takeover we were only going backwards, now we look like we will move forward, even if it's not as quickly as we'd like.
Frustrating day that started with shit traffic on the M11 (shouldn't live in Essex) leading to a jog to the ground and arriving at the top of the steps in the NWQ a fraction of a second after Igor had scored Any sort of crowd noise and I may have found that extra step to have seen the goal but hey this is Charlton so silence and lack of atmosphere is the norm ..... I must have missed the good stuff cos we were pretty dull for the remainder Thank goodness the dumb Brum tapped in the goal bound effort for it to be disallowed
the reality is we are in a dream position but as WSS mentions it has the potential of the we're still 5th season , where you knew performances and results from us and those around us left us in a position that was "false" and eventually those performances and other teams results would change and leave us in a more realistic position I for one will be surprised if we finish top ten unless there is at least two decent signings Not gonna single anyone out for praise because no one stood out and our position is so good I'll ignore some of the ponyness that some possess in that hideous home shirt.
0% top two ......... 5% 3rd-6th .........55% 7th-12th ......45% 13th-21st...... 0% Relegation
We only listened but it was upsetting to hear a restless crowd again. The commentators seemed to feel that changing formation after the goal was a big mistake and the downhill effect started from that. We are still in a great position but, and this for me is a big but, if games continue in what appears to be a lacklustre way, attendances will drop further and the options to boost the squad will be limited by the economics of falling attendance. It becomes a Catch 22 but as ever not losing is not enough, you need attractive football as well and 15 minutes per game may not be enough for a crowd whose expectations are largely unrealistic.
he HIDES ALL THE FRICKING TIME, take your blinker off boys. Classic example was when we had a succession of throw ins down the right in the first half, he was hiding between the defenders and pointing to pass it into the middle to no-one.
His miss was one of the best things he did today. He doesn't ever want the ball, continually pointing to people to pass it to the other side of the pitch, runs down cul de sacs, every time Solly got the ball today you would have thought he would have pulled out to the right wing.....no way....ran inside and got as close to a defender as possible, Solly had to keep turning around and knocking it back.
I would be seriously interested in seeing his stats for touches of the ball, I would be almost certain he would be one of the lowest. Giving your all means fuck all - see Simon Church and the grief he gets. Direct? When did he take on his man today? Not once is the answer. Never complains? Have you seen the amount of moaning he does at everyone else whilst he fixes his hair however many times a game? Where did their goal come from today? Oh yeah Mr Wilson's side....what did he do once it went in? Started complaining at everyone else negating the fact that he'd let his man go. Loves playing for us? So would I, it means nothing. There is a reason his whole career has been spent in league one, he is not the sort of player any championship side would want in there side, he is not good enough.
What a load of dross. Wilson didn't have a good hand today, but this is tripe. IMO.
I really don't get this Wilson stuff - he wasn't any worse than the rest and looked lively. He doesn't have the pace to skin players or get behind full backs without doubling up with Solly so that's a bit of an issue but he really ain't a pariah!
So much is said about players getting caught in possession and we know it's a cardinal sin. Firstly, why does a player get caught in possession?:
No passing option through lack of support or movement.
Lack of communication between players - team mates not talking and warning him when he's getting closed down or, worse still, team mates not calling for the ball or signalling where they want it before making a run into space.
The player in possession has his head down and fails to see options.
The team are lacking movement so are much easier to press and close down.
Not moving the ball quickly enough - also linked to the last point - movement, passing, support and communication, all aid the speeding up of the movement of the ball making it much more difficult to be closed down.
Lack of movement into space - players making themselves available wanting the ball.
The reason I highlight this is because, when we scored the goal it was because we started the game at a great pace and moved it quickly and Bulot whipped in an early ball - perfect execution.
After we scored, whether we changed things or not, we dropped deeper and failed to take the game to the opposition. We did the opposite of what we were doing before we scored.
If you watch teams who have lots of possession, much of it comes from movement, communication, support and moving the ball quickly.
How often yesterday did we see a Charlton player dwell on the ball after receiving it? That answers my question - poor support around him and no immediate option to move it on quickly.
We either have a tired football squad through too much football, under fitness, overtraining or we simply are not being encouraged to be hungry and adventurous when we get our heads in front.
This Charlton squad is decent with an excellent back four and a top striker. We need a couple of players, as pointed out, a creative midfielder - maybe but I would rather see a ball winner in there and let Buyens create the play, plus an effective support for Igor, maybe someone with pace, like a fit Danny Haynes.
Most of all, we need to move the ball quicker through better movement and to be more positive in our approach play.
At some point, I suppose, people will stop justifying everything against what would have happened last season. We've been in the league since 1921. It's not the only available benchmark and the reason it was so poor was that we had a grossly inadequate squad.
This season we have better players in the team, but we still have an inadequate squad. I think Peeters has done and continues to do very well with what he has, but it is glaringly obvious that what he has is severely unbalanced.
Pack Tucudean off to St Trinians (or whatever they're called) and get a striker. Until we do the frustration will continue to build, however many games we are unbeaten, because it's obvious to most that we could easily be doing better.
Anyone think that we have been riding our luck this season (Disallowed goal yesterday an example, and pen not given at Norwich), and that we could easily go on a losing run as much as an unbeaten run should that luck get back to the normal Charlton levels?
Draw a fair result in my view. Disappointing that we didn't push on after the early goal and gave Birmingham the initiative but you have to give them some credit for that. The positive is that we are still getting something out of games when we are below our best and remain unbeaten in the league, maybe the Norwich win took more out that we thought. 2 week break now may help as some of the players are looking tired at present.
Only one word to describe yesterday's performance .... Complacent. That's not just the players but the crowd too. After the first 10 minutes I thought we were going to go on a score 3 or 4 but we just didn't kick on. Some shocking performances yesterday from our midfielders. We desparately need a midfielder who can unlock defences and a striker who can give Ivor support. Still, we're unbeaten after 11 so can't complain too much. Hopefully the international break will allow our small squad to recharge the batteries and we can pick up from where we left off. Onwards and upwards. The future's bright. The future's RED n WHITE #COYA
Anyone think that we have been riding our luck this season (Disallowed goal yesterday an example, and pen not given at Norwich), and that we could easily go on a losing run as much as an unbeaten run should that luck get back to the normal Charlton levels?
On the other hand, Wiggins was clearly pulled back to allow their guy to get in behind him for the ball in, so justice was served.
Elements of our play are quite frustrating, but I can't understand some of the overarching feeling of negativity by some posters on here. We started very well and I thought Vetokele was unlucky not score in the first few minutes when he turned and hit it with his left (I also think he got pulled back). We were decent for the first 15. The central midfield trio of JJ/Cousins/Buyens suits all 3 and means we don't get overrun in midfield. I can only assume Peeters changed it and put Cousins out left and tuck Bulot in to support Vetokele who looked isolated up top. A lot of people who are starting to question our negative/possession style of play may also remember that our goal came about from good possession. We actually attempted to start a move down the right, it wasn't going anywhere, but had to bide our time go back into our half and start again. A minute later, we worked the space well and scored a good goal.
After that, we did sit too deep. Yes Buyens had a poor game, gave the ball away, but it was symptomatic of a wider malaise that took hold. Vetokele needed support, I don't think Bulot is the best answer. Cousins out left isn't great etc. Brum started to get hold of it and I thought they did well, squeezing us out in the centre, but then this is to be expected with a midfield pairing of JJ/Buyens.
For me, only when JJ was taken off did we regain control of the game and look like we were on the front foot. Don't get me wrong, not saying we were world beaters, but it looked like we had balance again. A lot of people on here are quite fond of saying that successive managers including Peeters have constantly picked JJ (and for good reason), but Peeters has now subbed JJ two homes games in a row with 20 then 30 minutes to go. So by that logic we must respect, and I also think say that Peeters got it right by removing JJ from play. Personally a midfield pairing of Buyens/Cousins over the course of the season will give us more in my opinion.
We do still need to find a good partner for Vetokele, and that might be why Peeters is pursuing the 4-5-1. For me it's frustrating because it's another game we had a lead in, and I just think we don't sit so deep we can really push on in games. We're probably 2/3 players short of being a top team, and I think everything Peeters does is to try and win. You have to be pleased getting to the 4th October unbeaten. It's not perfect, but I think we're really competing with what we've got.
I have held back from posting much on here lately as I dont wont to sound churlish, but really thr only difference between this team as the team that Jose Riga inherited is Igor Vetekele and 2 decent central defenders- other than that we still have midfielders who pass sideways, a wide player who can not take on a full back (Cousins) and a build up so slow that by the time we get anywhere near the oppositions goal they have all their players back.
I know we were all buzzing tues night having stolen 3 points from Carrow Road, but it is also so annoying to score first and then let the opposition equalize. I've lost count how many times we have done it this season but I know it must be around 5 or 6 times. Not very good. My son came away very disappointed saying that it felt like a defeat and I know where he is coming from. I agree with airman Brown - we need a decent striker alongside Igor & a change in momentum after we score otherwise all the good work over the last 2 months will be wasted.
he HIDES ALL THE FRICKING TIME, take your blinker off boys. Classic example was when we had a succession of throw ins down the right in the first half, he was hiding between the defenders and pointing to pass it into the middle to no-one.
His miss was one of the best things he did today. He doesn't ever want the ball, continually pointing to people to pass it to the other side of the pitch, runs down cul de sacs, every time Solly got the ball today you would have thought he would have pulled out to the right wing.....no way....ran inside and got as close to a defender as possible, Solly had to keep turning around and knocking it back.
I would be seriously interested in seeing his stats for touches of the ball, I would be almost certain he would be one of the lowest. Giving your all means fuck all - see Simon Church and the grief he gets. Direct? When did he take on his man today? Not once is the answer. Never complains? Have you seen the amount of moaning he does at everyone else whilst he fixes his hair however many times a game? Where did their goal come from today? Oh yeah Mr Wilson's side....what did he do once it went in? Started complaining at everyone else negating the fact that he'd let his man go. Loves playing for us? So would I, it means nothing. There is a reason his whole career has been spent in league one, he is not the sort of player any championship side would want in there side, he is not good enough.
What a load of dross. Wilson didn't have a good hand today, but this is tripe. IMO.
if i had a pound for every time someone said 'Lawrie is a good player, just had an off day today' i would be upgrading to crossbars for me and my whole row
Once Jacko went off, no leadership, no players talking to each other, nothing from the manager.
Once Jacko went off we had a 2-minute spell of fluent possession that ended in a corner, and we largely dominated the game thereafter. While Jacko was on the field, we looked absolutely desperate. After the substitution, Buyens suddenly had a football transplant and went from a bumbling sack of uselessness to a midfield dominator. I'm not saying, but I'm saying.
Agree 100% - Buyens was a different player after that - coincidence?
Was a shocking game and we really let them off the hook after our goal. Birmingham were kak for the first fifteen and I said to my mate 5 minutes after our goal - we'd better get back at them or they'll ease into the game and, sure enough....
Not enough movement and way too much long ball, especially from Henderson. Vetokele does climb high for a little fella but the long balls were picked off by their 6'4" central defender almost without exception.
I drive to and from Ipswich to watch CAFC and it does leave me a little p*ssed off driving home and wondering why the players didn't perform on the back of an excellent away victory on Tuesday night.
Didn't lose, though, so, onwards & upwards!
The change afforded another striker ahead of the midfield, more options, more outlets, and Jackson would have looked better had Buyens gone off too.
he HIDES ALL THE FRICKING TIME, take your blinker off boys. Classic example was when we had a succession of throw ins down the right in the first half, he was hiding between the defenders and pointing to pass it into the middle to no-one.
His miss was one of the best things he did today. He doesn't ever want the ball, continually pointing to people to pass it to the other side of the pitch, runs down cul de sacs, every time Solly got the ball today you would have thought he would have pulled out to the right wing.....no way....ran inside and got as close to a defender as possible, Solly had to keep turning around and knocking it back.
I would be seriously interested in seeing his stats for touches of the ball, I would be almost certain he would be one of the lowest. Giving your all means fuck all - see Simon Church and the grief he gets. Direct? When did he take on his man today? Not once is the answer. Never complains? Have you seen the amount of moaning he does at everyone else whilst he fixes his hair however many times a game? Where did their goal come from today? Oh yeah Mr Wilson's side....what did he do once it went in? Started complaining at everyone else negating the fact that he'd let his man go. Loves playing for us? So would I, it means nothing. There is a reason his whole career has been spent in league one, he is not the sort of player any championship side would want in there side, he is not good enough.
What a load of dross. Wilson didn't have a good hand today, but this is tripe. IMO.
if i had a pound for every time someone said 'Lawrie is a good player, just had an off day today' i would be upgrading to crossbars for me and my whole row
do you not understand the idea of a squad player who can play in a number of positions, has limitations but occasionally does some good stuff and always gives it his all. every team has and needs players like that. i doubt anyone says that he is a world beater but he is a key part of the team overall. that is why the other players respect him (and he was player's player of the year last year)
I suspect Mr Bligh is the WUM who has appeared recently under various guises, slagging off decent players to get a reaction. Not a long term poster, perhaps admin can investigate. Suspect we just have to ignore his posts and he'll go away or reinvent himself. Doubt he is CAFC because he doesn't quote specific passages of play.
Yes, why isn't he as good as Di Maria? What a well-considered comment. All he did yesterday was put in a perfect cross for the goal. Sack him immediately.
I suspect Mr Bligh is the WUM who has appeared recently under various guises, slagging off decent players to get a reaction. Not a long term poster, perhaps admin can investigate. Suspect we just have to ignore his posts and he'll go away or reinvent himself. Doubt he is CAFC because he doesn't quote specific passages of play.
Mr Bligh has been around a good while and is entitled to his view of Lawrie Wilson.
I, and it seems others, happen to vehemently disagree with it.
Once Jacko went off, no leadership, no players talking to each other, nothing from the manager.
Once Jacko went off we had a 2-minute spell of fluent possession that ended in a corner, and we largely dominated the game thereafter. While Jacko was on the field, we looked absolutely desperate. After the substitution, Buyens suddenly had a football transplant and went from a bumbling sack of uselessness to a midfield dominator. I'm not saying, but I'm saying.
Agree 100% - Buyens was a different player after that - coincidence?
Was a shocking game and we really let them off the hook after our goal. Birmingham were kak for the first fifteen and I said to my mate 5 minutes after our goal - we'd better get back at them or they'll ease into the game and, sure enough....
Not enough movement and way too much long ball, especially from Henderson. Vetokele does climb high for a little fella but the long balls were picked off by their 6'4" central defender almost without exception.
I drive to and from Ipswich to watch CAFC and it does leave me a little p*ssed off driving home and wondering why the players didn't perform on the back of an excellent away victory on Tuesday night.
Didn't lose, though, so, onwards & upwards!
The change afforded another striker ahead of the midfield, more options, more outlets, and Jackson would have looked better had Buyens gone off too.
If you look at our set up then you'll maybe see why Buyens increasingly struggles when on the ball. Look how many players he has in front of him - 1, possibly 2 so, a sideways pass or, easier still, a back pass is often his option. Yesterday, Birmingham realised this and stuck two midfielders or wingers who are tucking in to narrow the play, in BEHIND Buyens - in between him and his defenders thus blocking or reducing their access to the back pass. So, as such, Buyens is on the ball with much reduced options and he gets over run and loses possession. Make no bones about it, Buyens can play and can create but he is used to having options around him that currently aren't there as they should be. You give Yoni time on the ball through good support and he'll create things. We have seen what he can do when he's feeling good about his game - give him his mojo back!
What we are trying when SH has ball is a clever low risk strategy. The CMs go wide and high. If nobody presses they or Buyens can bring ball out and FBs add numbers in middle. Out ball is keeper hoof. It has been sussed early doors for several matches leading to high pressing. We need to alternate full backs coming back as options and playing as above. Keep them guessing. Long from keeper won't work with no target man.
Comments
Birmingham had a good result against Millwall in the week so they would be riding high, as should we have been after Norwich. Was always going to be tricky and we would need to compete and dominate for a majority of the game, we didn't.
What really shocked me today was the awful level of passing all over the pitch or controlling of the ball. Consistant players such as Buyens were giving away the ball so cheaply or making poor decisions, with long balls to no one.
Thought Wiggins had a good game against that tricky right winger today. Henderson was solid, great claim near the end from a cross field cross and each game that goes by it is easier to forget Hamer.
Still undefeated and still looking dangerous at times to worry teams. But we need to take it to teams who are there for the taking.
1 Why change 4-2-3-1 when ahead?
2 Jackson (for several seasons) is too slow in a 4-4-2
3 Once sides press high we continue to have only the 2CBs wide or Buyens option. Why not bring FBs back and play out? Result is SH hoof.
4 We still drop deep too easily.
What's frustrating is we're only a player or two from this being a very good team (though perhaps not squad). Clearly need a targetman to partner Igor and perhaps a playmaker in midfield. A Kermorgant and a Reid (Andy) could add so more to this team.
As in a number of games now we needed a second but couldn't get it. Peeters is trying to get us playing his style but at the same time looking to get results with what we have. It's not always exciting but it's better than most of last season and to me it feels like it's just the start. Before the takeover we were only going backwards, now we look like we will move forward, even if it's not as quickly as we'd like.
Any sort of crowd noise and I may have found that extra step to have seen the goal but hey this is Charlton so silence and lack of atmosphere is the norm .....
I must have missed the good stuff cos we were pretty dull for the remainder
Thank goodness the dumb Brum tapped in the goal bound effort for it to be disallowed
the reality is we are in a dream position but as WSS mentions it has the potential of the we're still 5th season , where you knew performances and results from us and those around us left us in a position that was "false" and eventually those performances and other teams results would change and leave us in a more realistic position
I for one will be surprised if we finish top ten unless there is at least two decent signings
Not gonna single anyone out for praise because no one stood out and our position is so good I'll ignore some of the ponyness that some possess in that hideous home shirt.
0% top two ......... 5% 3rd-6th .........55% 7th-12th ......45% 13th-21st...... 0% Relegation
What a load of dross. Wilson didn't have a good hand today, but this is tripe. IMO.
He doesn't have the pace to skin players or get behind full backs without doubling up with Solly so that's a bit of an issue but he really ain't a pariah!
So much is said about players getting caught in possession and we know it's a cardinal sin.
Firstly, why does a player get caught in possession?:
No passing option through lack of support or movement.
Lack of communication between players - team mates not talking and warning him when he's getting closed down or, worse still, team mates not calling for the ball or signalling where they want it before making a run into space.
The player in possession has his head down and fails to see options.
The team are lacking movement so are much easier to press and close down.
Not moving the ball quickly enough - also linked to the last point - movement, passing, support and communication, all aid the speeding up of the movement of the ball making it much more difficult to be closed down.
Lack of movement into space - players making themselves available wanting the ball.
The reason I highlight this is because, when we scored the goal it was because we started the game at a great pace and moved it quickly and Bulot whipped in an early ball - perfect execution.
After we scored, whether we changed things or not, we dropped deeper and failed to take the game to the opposition.
We did the opposite of what we were doing before we scored.
If you watch teams who have lots of possession, much of it comes from movement, communication, support and moving the ball quickly.
How often yesterday did we see a Charlton player dwell on the ball after receiving it?
That answers my question - poor support around him and no immediate option to move it on quickly.
We either have a tired football squad through too much football, under fitness, overtraining or we simply are not being encouraged to be hungry and adventurous when we get our heads in front.
This Charlton squad is decent with an excellent back four and a top striker.
We need a couple of players, as pointed out, a creative midfielder - maybe but I would rather see a ball winner in there and let Buyens create the play, plus an effective support for Igor, maybe someone with pace, like a fit Danny Haynes.
Most of all, we need to move the ball quicker through better movement and to be more positive in our approach play.
Just my humble opinion.
This season we have better players in the team, but we still have an inadequate squad. I think Peeters has done and continues to do very well with what he has, but it is glaringly obvious that what he has is severely unbalanced.
Pack Tucudean off to St Trinians (or whatever they're called) and get a striker. Until we do the frustration will continue to build, however many games we are unbeaten, because it's obvious to most that we could easily be doing better.
After that, we did sit too deep. Yes Buyens had a poor game, gave the ball away, but it was symptomatic of a wider malaise that took hold. Vetokele needed support, I don't think Bulot is the best answer. Cousins out left isn't great etc. Brum started to get hold of it and I thought they did well, squeezing us out in the centre, but then this is to be expected with a midfield pairing of JJ/Buyens.
For me, only when JJ was taken off did we regain control of the game and look like we were on the front foot. Don't get me wrong, not saying we were world beaters, but it looked like we had balance again. A lot of people on here are quite fond of saying that successive managers including Peeters have constantly picked JJ (and for good reason), but Peeters has now subbed JJ two homes games in a row with 20 then 30 minutes to go. So by that logic we must respect, and I also think say that Peeters got it right by removing JJ from play. Personally a midfield pairing of Buyens/Cousins over the course of the season will give us more in my opinion.
We do still need to find a good partner for Vetokele, and that might be why Peeters is pursuing the 4-5-1. For me it's frustrating because it's another game we had a lead in, and I just think we don't sit so deep we can really push on in games. We're probably 2/3 players short of being a top team, and I think everything Peeters does is to try and win. You have to be pleased getting to the 4th October unbeaten. It's not perfect, but I think we're really competing with what we've got.
I know we were all buzzing tues night having stolen 3 points from Carrow Road, but it is also so annoying to score first and then let the opposition equalize. I've lost count how many times we have done it this season but I know it must be around 5 or 6 times. Not very good. My son came away very disappointed saying that it felt like a defeat and I know where he is coming from. I agree with airman Brown - we need a decent striker alongside Igor & a change in momentum after we score otherwise all the good work over the last 2 months will be wasted.
I, and it seems others, happen to vehemently disagree with it.
Look how many players he has in front of him - 1, possibly 2 so, a sideways pass or, easier still, a back pass is often his option.
Yesterday, Birmingham realised this and stuck two midfielders or wingers who are tucking in to narrow the play, in BEHIND Buyens - in between him and his defenders thus blocking or reducing their access to the back pass.
So, as such, Buyens is on the ball with much reduced options and he gets over run and loses possession.
Make no bones about it, Buyens can play and can create but he is used to having options around him that currently aren't there as they should be.
You give Yoni time on the ball through good support and he'll create things.
We have seen what he can do when he's feeling good about his game - give him his mojo back!