Whatever any of us might think about Duchatelet, he deserves credit for having the courage to make tough and/or bold decisions.
Appointing Jose Riga on a permanent basis would be the easy thing to do. A popular and low risk decision. The one most people would make. However, Duchatelet is clearly aiming higher. That's not to suggest he'll succeed, but I'll bet his ambition is to find the next Roberto Martinez or Brendan Rodgers rather than appoint another Powell or Riga.
Let's hope he succeeds. If we're going to make the Premier League, without spending big money and in the face of competition from the parachute payment brigade, we're going to need a Manager of real quality, an innovator, who'll add real value to the squad he's given. That's not Powell and Duchatelet appears to think its not Riga either.
It may be risky, but what's the realistic alternative?
PS Both Martinez and Rodgers were completely unproven when they got their first managerial appointments. Martinez was an instant hit while Rodgers stuttered at first, but somebody had the foresight to spot their outstanding talent.
Surely every manager is unproven when they get their first managerial appointment. That makes no sense.
Whatever any of us might think about Duchatelet, he deserves credit for having the courage to make tough and/or bold decisions.
Appointing Jose Riga on a permanent basis would be the easy thing to do. A popular and low risk decision. The one most people would make. However, Duchatelet is clearly aiming higher. That's not to suggest he'll succeed, but I'll bet his ambition is to find the next Roberto Martinez or Brendan Rodgers rather than appoint another Powell or Riga.
Let's hope he succeeds. If we're going to make the Premier League, without spending big money and in the face of competition from the parachute payment brigade, we're going to need a Manager of real quality, an innovator, who'll add real value to the squad he's given. That's not Powell and Duchatelet appears to think its not Riga either.
It may be risky, but what's the realistic alternative?
PS Both Martinez and Rodgers were completely unproven when they got their first managerial appointments. Martinez was an instant hit while Rodgers stuttered at first, but somebody had the foresight to spot their outstanding talent.
I've joined the many others who have liked your post. At the back of my mind though, this worry remains: RD does not like football. His main business is not a "people business". So what insight does he have that enables him to spot the next Martinez or Rodgers? I really want to believe he has that insight, but I cannot work out how and from where in his previous experience he would get it.
I don't know how many Lifers will remember the brilliant satirical puppet show Spitting Image. One of my favourite sketches involved the Ronald Reagan and Ed Meese puppets. The Reagan puppet was manic and looked ridiculous. Meese, his Chief of Staff, main confidant and later US Attorney General, was more measured and controlled.
Anyway, Reagan says to Meese, "Err, tell me Ed, who is running the country anyway?"
Meese replies, "Why, you are Mr Presi dent", with a typical American drawl.
Reagan replies, "Jeez Ed, we're in a lot more trouble than I thought."
We've all been hoping that Duchatelet has a number of advisors who he's leaning heavily on. He might, but it does appear that Roland is the main decision maker. This is not a side line for him. This is what he does now. I agree that it's not easy to see quite how he can make good judgements about footballing matters given his apparent lack of interest in it, at least historically, and that has to be a concern.
However, he does have the advantage of being unemotional, intelligent, analytical and not bound by spurious conventional wisdom. If you've read MoneyBall you'll know what rigorous analysis did for baseball. If you follow Fink Tank you'll know how many casual assumptions about what's important turn out to be invalid. Football really isn't very professional, at least in this country, and I find it at least plausible that somebody with an independent view might bring insight and add some value.
Of course, it's potentially a big gamble, but as I posted some months back if it all goes wrong with Duchatelet it will be more a case of the mad professor who blows up his own laboratory than Dr Evil.
Fingers crossed, it could be a bumpy ride. There has to be some upside potential in all of this though. In any event, what's the alternative?
I know that Bob seems to be the more unusual choice as head coach but we can look at the positives here. On the face of it Bob may be unproven in football management. He knows a thing or two about construction. That will be very helpful in the current rebuilding phase of the club. It definitely looks as the Charlton will need to be built from the foundations, with the previous house being torn down to the ground. He is well used to demanding and difficult owners of houses with difficult contracts. He will be great in using the low cost material he will be expected to work with. Everyone speaks well of him and he is a decent bloke. Nice to animals too. Definitely got transferable management skills and is used to overcoming setbacks and perservering to the end. Can we rely on him to fix it ? I think we know the answer to that one !
Two contasting situations between people who "know English football" and those who don't: CAFC 2006 - Curbishley goes and the owner and CEO who have been there for ten years or more appoint first Billy Davies (who declines) then turn down McCarthy (still going strong in the Championship) then Dowie, followed by Reid followed by Pardew. Duchatelet runs a club in Belgium for three or four years and appoints a new coach every season - with Luzon this is the first time he has extended one. He arrives in SE7 and inherits a relegation threatened side and management. He terminates one caoch and appoints an interim to see us through to the end of the season WITH the same squad. That is without buying the club out of trouble with million pound signings. Whether the next coach works or not it is clear that if the player performances and league table point to a backwards movement then we can look forward to another interim being brought in. People speculate about relegation and how Duchatelet doesn't care - but it would set the club back financially and more importantly it loses time - a whole year to recover at least so two years wasted.
It is possible that we won't make the fastest climb back up the football pyramid but we will make steady steps. Some top academy players might not sign for us but many will - perhaps 80% of the top five every year. There will be progress because he is building a model - if anything the individual goals set for people will be clearer and won't be hidden in managment shite and football bluster... it is about increasing value - of the club and individual players.
I did respond to Seriously Red but decided to take it down. I am trying to be more positive and not get involved with negative debates, but it is difficult with the relentlessly cheeriness and positive readings of situations that on the face of it don't look too promising. I am trying but I am finding Roland very trying. The relentless cheerful optimistic spinning of everything even more trying.
Whatever any of us might think about Duchatelet, he deserves credit for having the courage to make tough and/or bold decisions.
Appointing Jose Riga on a permanent basis would be the easy thing to do. A popular and low risk decision. The one most people would make. However, Duchatelet is clearly aiming higher. That's not to suggest he'll succeed, but I'll bet his ambition is to find the next Roberto Martinez or Brendan Rodgers rather than appoint another Powell or Riga.
Let's hope he succeeds. If we're going to make the Premier League, without spending big money and in the face of competition from the parachute payment brigade, we're going to need a Manager of real quality, an innovator, who'll add real value to the squad he's given. That's not Powell and Duchatelet appears to think its not Riga either.
It may be risky, but what's the realistic alternative?
PS Both Martinez and Rodgers were completely unproven when they got their first managerial appointments. Martinez was an instant hit while Rodgers stuttered at first, but somebody had the foresight to spot their outstanding talent.
Surely every manager is unproven when they get their first managerial appointment. That makes no sense.
So far Duchatelet has made good decisions when seen in retrospect and hopefully a new coach will be another good decision. The main decision however from now on is how do we rebuild the team/squad. From a rational business-like approach you need good operatives at the coal face to find you that gold and you cant hang around waiting for them to apply; you have to go out and get them quick before someone else does.
At the end of the day we to make sure we comply with FFP break-even requirements, Bob is probaly fairly cheap there are some good reports coming out from Belgium regarding his coaching skills so until i actually see the team perform he has my 100% support.
Yann take no notice this is Charlton, 25% of our support are muppets anyway :-/
Indeed. 25% is probably the correct figure for CAFC fans who have just voted for a party whose policies would render RD's entire project impractical.
@PragueAddick I hope to see you at Rotherham next season, home of McShane, whoops UKIP :--((
Why has all this taken so long? The decision to dump Riga must have been made pretty much after he started if you look at the circumstances. And where Peeters is concerned I'm pretty sure a compensation package could've been sorted out in ten minutes weeks ago. He's hardly at one of world footballs galacticos! I don't get it?
Why has all this taken so long? The decision to dump Riga must have been made pretty much after he started if you look at the circumstances. And where Peeters is concerned I'm pretty sure a compensation package could've been sorted out in ten minutes weeks ago. He's hardly at one of world footballs galacticos! I don't get it?
Two parties disagree on the value of an employee. It's not that hard to understand.
So far Duchatelet has made good decisions when seen in retrospect and hopefully a new coach will be another good decision. The main decision however from now on is how do we rebuild the team/squad. From a rational business-like approach you need good operatives at the coal face to find you that gold and you cant hang around waiting for them to apply; you have to go out and get them quick before someone else does.
I agree. He has made some good decisions particularly around the training ground and pitch.
However, the current concern for me (and one that is increasing) is that he made some awful decisions re players. I still believe getting rid of Stephens and Kermorgant was an error and those he bought in such as Thuram, Nego and Reza, plus the strange signing of Piotr did little to fill me with confidence.
Now we have lost Hamer and it seems likely that Dervite is also off. We have a threadbare squad and report back for pre season in a month. RD appears to like a hands on role in the signings made. What examples since he took over are there of him having a good eye for a player?
So far Duchatelet has made good decisions when seen in retrospect and hopefully a new coach will be another good decision. The main decision however from now on is how do we rebuild the team/squad. From a rational business-like approach you need good operatives at the coal face to find you that gold and you cant hang around waiting for them to apply; you have to go out and get them quick before someone else does.
I agree. He has made some good decisions particularly around the training ground and pitch.
However, the current concern for me (and one that is increasing) is that he made some awful decisions re players. I still believe getting rid of Stephens and Kermorgant was an error and those he bought in such as Thuram, Nego and Reza, plus the strange signing of Piotr did little to fill me with confidence.
Now we have lost Hamer and it seems likely that Dervite is also off. We have a threadbare squad and report back for pre season in a month. RD appears to like a hands on role in the signings made. What examples since he took over are there of him having a good eye for a player?
Not sure where your evidence is for the RD hands on role in choosing players is ?
So far Duchatelet has made good decisions when seen in retrospect and hopefully a new coach will be another good decision. The main decision however from now on is how do we rebuild the team/squad. From a rational business-like approach you need good operatives at the coal face to find you that gold and you cant hang around waiting for them to apply; you have to go out and get them quick before someone else does.
I agree. He has made some good decisions particularly around the training ground and pitch.
However, the current concern for me (and one that is increasing) is that he made some awful decisions re players. I still believe getting rid of Stephens and Kermorgant was an error and those he bought in such as Thuram, Nego and Reza, plus the strange signing of Piotr did little to fill me with confidence.
Now we have lost Hamer and it seems likely that Dervite is also off. We have a threadbare squad and report back for pre season in a month. RD appears to like a hands on role in the signings made. What examples since he took over are there of him having a good eye for a player?
Not sure where your evidence is for the RD hands on role in choosing players is ?
I only wrote it 'appears' to be the case. I think Powell said that when RD arrived he came with a list of players he could get in quickly. I don't really believe that if anyone else had taken us over we would have signed Reza, Thuram and Nego and to some extent AA?
So far Duchatelet has made good decisions when seen in retrospect and hopefully a new coach will be another good decision. The main decision however from now on is how do we rebuild the team/squad. From a rational business-like approach you need good operatives at the coal face to find you that gold and you cant hang around waiting for them to apply; you have to go out and get them quick before someone else does.
I agree. He has made some good decisions particularly around the training ground and pitch.
However, the current concern for me (and one that is increasing) is that he made some awful decisions re players. I still believe getting rid of Stephens and Kermorgant was an error and those he bought in such as Thuram, Nego and Reza, plus the strange signing of Piotr did little to fill me with confidence.
Now we have lost Hamer and it seems likely that Dervite is also off. We have a threadbare squad and report back for pre season in a month. RD appears to like a hands on role in the signings made. What examples since he took over are there of him having a good eye for a player?
Not sure where your evidence is for the RD hands on role in choosing players is ?
Depends what you mean by "choosing". Beyond reasonable doubt we know that those players who came in January were foisted upon CP. If RD was not driving it, who was? As you know, we are trying hard to find out, so far without any success. I am sure RD did not personally watch PP before he was signed and sent over here. Did Phil Chapple? We don't know.
So far Duchatelet has made good decisions when seen in retrospect and hopefully a new coach will be another good decision. The main decision however from now on is how do we rebuild the team/squad. From a rational business-like approach you need good operatives at the coal face to find you that gold and you cant hang around waiting for them to apply; you have to go out and get them quick before someone else does.
I agree. He has made some good decisions particularly around the training ground and pitch.
However, the current concern for me (and one that is increasing) is that he made some awful decisions re players. I still believe getting rid of Stephens and Kermorgant was an error and those he bought in such as Thuram, Nego and Reza, plus the strange signing of Piotr did little to fill me with confidence.
Now we have lost Hamer and it seems likely that Dervite is also off. We have a threadbare squad and report back for pre season in a month. RD appears to like a hands on role in the signings made. What examples since he took over are there of him having a good eye for a player?
Not sure where your evidence is for the RD hands on role in choosing players is ?
Depends what you mean by "choosing". Beyond reasonable doubt we know that those players who came in January were foisted upon CP. If RD was not driving it, who was? As you know, we are trying hard to find out, so far without any success. I am sure RD did not personally watch PP before he was signed and sent over here. Did Phil Chapple? We don't know.
Agree that it's obvious that when RD took over he came with a list of players that could bolster the squad straight away because they were "network" players who could arrive within days.
My view is that in January RD was not prepared to spend much cash in bolstering CP's faltering team and as admitted brought in players that with hindsight were not good enough. Still not sure why anyone would assume that RD is doing the scouting.
So far Duchatelet has made good decisions when seen in retrospect and hopefully a new coach will be another good decision. The main decision however from now on is how do we rebuild the team/squad. From a rational business-like approach you need good operatives at the coal face to find you that gold and you cant hang around waiting for them to apply; you have to go out and get them quick before someone else does.
I agree. He has made some good decisions particularly around the training ground and pitch.
However, the current concern for me (and one that is increasing) is that he made some awful decisions re players. I still believe getting rid of Stephens and Kermorgant was an error and those he bought in such as Thuram, Nego and Reza, plus the strange signing of Piotr did little to fill me with confidence.
Now we have lost Hamer and it seems likely that Dervite is also off. We have a threadbare squad and report back for pre season in a month. RD appears to like a hands on role in the signings made. What examples since he took over are there of him having a good eye for a player?
Not sure where your evidence is for the RD hands on role in choosing players is ?
Depends what you mean by "choosing". Beyond reasonable doubt we know that those players who came in January were foisted upon CP. If RD was not driving it, who was? As you know, we are trying hard to find out, so far without any success. I am sure RD did not personally watch PP before he was signed and sent over here. Did Phil Chapple? We don't know.
Agree that it's obvious that when RD took over he came with a list of players that could bolster the squad straight away because they were "network" players who could arrive within days.
My view is that in January RD was not prepared to spend much cash in bolstering CP's faltering team and as admitted brought in players that with hindsight were not good enough. Still not sure why anyone would assume that RD is doing the scouting.
i can garantuee you guys RD does not do the scouting of players himself. If he would do that you guys would be garantueed a place in the conference in erm let's say within 4 seasons from now
So far Duchatelet has made good decisions when seen in retrospect and hopefully a new coach will be another good decision. The main decision however from now on is how do we rebuild the team/squad. From a rational business-like approach you need good operatives at the coal face to find you that gold and you cant hang around waiting for them to apply; you have to go out and get them quick before someone else does.
I agree. He has made some good decisions particularly around the training ground and pitch.
However, the current concern for me (and one that is increasing) is that he made some awful decisions re players. I still believe getting rid of Stephens and Kermorgant was an error and those he bought in such as Thuram, Nego and Reza, plus the strange signing of Piotr did little to fill me with confidence.
Now we have lost Hamer and it seems likely that Dervite is also off. We have a threadbare squad and report back for pre season in a month. RD appears to like a hands on role in the signings made. What examples since he took over are there of him having a good eye for a player?
Not sure where your evidence is for the RD hands on role in choosing players is ?
Depends what you mean by "choosing". Beyond reasonable doubt we know that those players who came in January were foisted upon CP. If RD was not driving it, who was? As you know, we are trying hard to find out, so far without any success. I am sure RD did not personally watch PP before he was signed and sent over here. Did Phil Chapple? We don't know.
Agree that it's obvious that when RD took over he came with a list of players that could bolster the squad straight away because they were "network" players who could arrive within days.
My view is that in January RD was not prepared to spend much cash in bolstering CP's faltering team and as admitted brought in players that with hindsight were not good enough. Still not sure why anyone would assume that RD is doing the scouting.
i can garantuee you guys RD does not do the scouting of players himself. If he would do that you guys would be garantueed a place in the conference in erm let's say within 4 seasons from now
Which of course raises the question of who does advise on what players to bring in - I think we can be pretty sure from our experience at Charlton (plus the relatively high turnover of coaches at Liege) that it's not the head coach/manager at the club....?
I'm not sure people assume RD does the scouting. That would be a naive thought.
I do believe, however, that the input he has into the relative merits of each player is beyond that of other owners and he may feel he has superior knowledge of players within his network.
I know he has apologised (did he do this himself of through KM?) But part of being genuinely sorry means you won't repeat the mistake. We shall see.
Comments
Anyway, Reagan says to Meese, "Err, tell me Ed, who is running the country anyway?"
Meese replies, "Why, you are Mr Presi dent", with a typical American drawl.
Reagan replies, "Jeez Ed, we're in a lot more trouble than I thought."
We've all been hoping that Duchatelet has a number of advisors who he's leaning heavily on. He might, but it does appear that Roland is the main decision maker. This is not a side line for him. This is what he does now. I agree that it's not easy to see quite how he can make good judgements about footballing matters given his apparent lack of interest in it, at least historically, and that has to be a concern.
However, he does have the advantage of being unemotional, intelligent, analytical and not bound by spurious conventional wisdom. If you've read MoneyBall you'll know what rigorous analysis did for baseball. If you follow Fink Tank you'll know how many casual assumptions about what's important turn out to be invalid. Football really isn't very professional, at least in this country, and I find it at least plausible that somebody with an independent view might bring insight and add some value.
Of course, it's potentially a big gamble, but as I posted some months back if it all goes wrong with Duchatelet it will be more a case of the mad professor who blows up his own laboratory than Dr Evil.
Fingers crossed, it could be a bumpy ride. There has to be some upside potential in all of this though. In any event, what's the alternative?
CAFC 2006 - Curbishley goes and the owner and CEO who have been there for ten years or more appoint first Billy Davies (who declines) then turn down McCarthy (still going strong in the Championship) then Dowie, followed by Reid followed by Pardew.
Duchatelet runs a club in Belgium for three or four years and appoints a new coach every season - with Luzon this is the first time he has extended one. He arrives in SE7 and inherits a relegation threatened side and management. He terminates one caoch and appoints an interim to see us through to the end of the season WITH the same squad. That is without buying the club out of trouble with million pound signings.
Whether the next coach works or not it is clear that if the player performances and league table point to a backwards movement then we can look forward to another interim being brought in.
People speculate about relegation and how Duchatelet doesn't care - but it would set the club back financially and more importantly it loses time - a whole year to recover at least so two years wasted.
It is possible that we won't make the fastest climb back up the football pyramid but we will make steady steps. Some top academy players might not sign for us but many will - perhaps 80% of the top five every year. There will be progress because he is building a model - if anything the individual goals set for people will be clearer and won't be hidden in managment shite and football bluster... it is about increasing value - of the club and individual players.
Time to go out and get some sunshine.
Including SCP
@PragueAddick I hope to see you at Rotherham next season, home of McShane, whoops UKIP :--((
The decision to dump Riga must have been made pretty much after he started if you look at the circumstances.
And where Peeters is concerned I'm pretty sure a compensation package could've been sorted out in ten minutes weeks ago. He's hardly at one of world footballs galacticos!
I don't get it?
Or not.
However, the current concern for me (and one that is increasing) is that he made some awful decisions re players. I still believe getting rid of Stephens and Kermorgant was an error and those he bought in such as Thuram, Nego and Reza, plus the strange signing of Piotr did little to fill me with confidence.
Now we have lost Hamer and it seems likely that Dervite is also off. We have a threadbare squad and report back for pre season in a month. RD appears to like a hands on role in the signings made. What examples since he took over are there of him having a good eye for a player?
My view is that in January RD was not prepared to spend much cash in bolstering CP's faltering team and as admitted brought in players that with hindsight were not good enough. Still not sure why anyone would assume that RD is doing the scouting.
I do believe, however, that the input he has into the relative merits of each player is beyond that of other owners and he may feel he has superior knowledge of players within his network.
I know he has apologised (did he do this himself of through KM?) But part of being genuinely sorry means you won't repeat the mistake. We shall see.
And It is not a rumour somone just mentioned it on here .. And everyone jumped to conclusions yet again