Think Shelvey signed up so we could make a fee out of loyalty totheteamthat bought him up, I would hope Poyet does the same.
I hope so too, young Diego did seem a bit disillusioned in the immediate Post-Powell fallout (like most of us) but I reckon he'll do right by the club and the academy who taught him so well. To be honest I would be okay with selling he OR Cousins as long as we kept hold of the other for another year or two, losing both at once would be heartbreaking. And whatever faults he may have I don't think RD would happily see two excellent prospects go cheap if he could help it!
He's playing better and better each game now, so must be in a good place with Riga, the slightly more patient passing style suiting him perfectly. Clearly he's being encouraged to play slightly further forward now, rather than sitting on top of the back 4 as a purely defensive midfielder.
He's playing first team football for the first time in his life and rightly he is concentrating on that now. He knows the club want to keep him so not having a contract is not a distraction for him. Quite a few of his teammates are in the same position. Why wouldn't he wait until the end of the season?
He knows he is wanted elsewhere, if he goes surely he will only go if he is confident of playing when he gets there. Going somewhere on a free or for a low fee doesn't put the same presure on the manager to play you that going for a 7 figure sum does. I think he is well advised and he will know that playing is what is important at this stage rather than for the U21s of a premier team or Barca B
I think he'll sign a deal at the end of the season. I even think he will if we are back in League 1
I think he'll stay if we stay up but with a release clause so we don't get too silly and don't let him go after he has shown loyalty by agreeing to stay.
If he doesn't and walks for a small development fee then we only have TJ to blame as it should have been sorted sooner. But hey, why should they have done, after all he didn't play earlier in the season only because TJ couldn't afford the significant pay rise that would have followed if he had. Might not be in the position we are now ..........
I don't think he owes us anything. I also don't think his Dad has any obligation to 'take care' of him in the event that he turns down more money elsewhere so that he can stay with us.
Even at 19 (just) he must want to be able to be financially independent from his parents, expecting him to turn down any pay rise is unrealistic, and I believe unfair. I'm with Kap, we only keep those that we think can play or make us money. We have even 'encouraged' players to leave and waive the contractual obligations that we have when it suits us. We don't have any obligation to give a contact to any of the players we no longer want, and none of the players have to stay when their contract comes to an end.
I don't know what the numbers were but Shelvey was offered what Richard Murray described as a lot of money at 17. Poyet is two years older than him and he is, I presume, on youth team money. He wasn't even given a new contract last year when the likes of Cousins were. At this stage it's a little late for us to be hoping he'd commit to us as we don't seem to have shown a huge amount of faith in him up to now.
Having said that I genuinely hope that we stay up and he agrees to stay for another year or two. I just can't see it, personally.
I don't think he owes us anything. I also don't think his Dad has any obligation to 'take care' of him in the event that he turns down more money elsewhere so that he can stay with us.
Even at 19 (just) he must want to be able to be financially independent from his parents, expecting him to turn down any pay rise is unrealistic, and I believe unfair. I'm with Kap, we only keep those that we think can play or make us money. We have even 'encouraged' players to leave and waive the contractual obligations that we have when it suits us. We don't have any obligation to give a contact to any of the players we no longer want, and none of the players have to stay when their contract comes to an end.
I don't know what the numbers were but Shelvey was offered what Richard Murray described as a lot of money at 17. Poyet is two years older than him and he is, I presume, on youth team money. He wasn't even given a new contract last year when the likes of Cousins were. At this stage it's a little late for us to be hoping he'd commit to us as we don't seem to have shown a huge amount of faith in him up to now.
Having said that I genuinely hope that we stay up and he agrees to stay for another year or two. I just can't see it, personally.
I don't think he owes us anything. I also don't think his Dad has any obligation to 'take care' of him in the event that he turns down more money elsewhere so that he can stay with us.
Even at 19 (just) he must want to be able to be financially independent from his parents, expecting him to turn down any pay rise is unrealistic, and I believe unfair. I'm with Kap, we only keep those that we think can play or make us money. We have even 'encouraged' players to leave and waive the contractual obligations that we have when it suits us. We don't have any obligation to give a contact to any of the players we no longer want, and none of the players have to stay when their contract comes to an end.
I don't know what the numbers were but Shelvey was offered what Richard Murray described as a lot of money at 17. Poyet is two years older than him and he is, I presume, on youth team money. He wasn't even given a new contract last year when the likes of Cousins were. At this stage it's a little late for us to be hoping he'd commit to us as we don't seem to have shown a huge amount of faith in him up to now.
Having said that I genuinely hope that we stay up and he agrees to stay for another year or two. I just can't see it, personally.
I don't think he owes us anything either, its a dog eat dog world, in football more than most. as Large implies he already has a contract that gave him decent money for first team football (allegedly) which is why dodge it and scarper didn't ley powell play him. IMO this shows he is well advised. Similarly I think we'll make him a decent offer, for us, but this will still pale into insignificance compared to a squad position at a prem team. Im hoping that he won't take the money and run, rather build a career with us in order to make a "big" move to a top team in a year or two. He's seen what has happened to Shelvey and Jenkinson on moving to a top club at a young age. He's got a better chance of establishing himslef in a top team if he's got 100 games under his belt over the next couple of seasons
If he helps keep us up this year, then that's our loyalty repaid in my eyes.
Whether he chooses to stay with us or not, I'd wish him well. We should really be blaming MS + TJ for not signing him up before he started playing games (though I expect his increase in wages couldn't have been covered by their tiny budget).
I am sure we need to offer him a decent wedge to keep him but what might also seduce him is if we decide to build the team around him next year. I think he is that good. Not sure he would get that elsewhere.
I am sure we need to offer him a decent wedge to keep him but what might also seduce him is if we decide to build the team around him next year. I think he is that good. Not sure he would get that elsewhere.
I think he he is of the best played players at the club already. We may need to really break the bank.
I guess it depends on your outlook. If you are completely in the 'I look after myself only' group, then he owes us nothing and good luck to him.
My problem with this is that youth set ups cost a lot to run, if as a graduate from this your view is that you look after yourself and sod the club and any fees they can get for you - esp since the new fee structure came in, you are most likely contributing to youth set ups closing eventually. If owners cannot see financial merit in running them why would they continue to do so? RD and others are not in this purely benevolently.
I went to uni and hAve contributed to bursaries at my uni ever since as I would like to see other young people given the same opportunities as I had as a young lad. I know the uni will not accept every one that applies, I also know that not everyone will graduate/ finish or go on to a high paying job. I do know the uni will give them every opportunity to do so whilst they are there.
If we can't keep these players or get any substantial money for them then they might as well shut the academy down and let the big clubs find them and train them. Its like we are turning into a scouting team for premier league giants to get prospects on the cheap.
I am going to be furious if Joe Gomez goes the same way as Kasey Palmer.
Diego Poyet should just come and say what he wants. If we can't afford it then bye bye and have a nice career. Thanks for the memories.
Not all this 'I am keeping my options open' which means 'i will come to your club if you pay more than than any of the others so come and get me'.
*Basing my opinion on what i have heard and not facts*
Maybe he has told the club he'll only sign if we stay up. He's not going to announce that publicly.
Seems it's already been difficult enough to keep him considering he's said to have been on a deal that meant we couldn't afford to play him. Clearly that wasn't the case with Cousins, Pigott, Fox and Lennon.
Watching him in the last few games it's clear he's our best player (along with Solly). Well worth offering him good money to keep him, as well as being a key player he could be worth a lot more in a season or two. It would be nice to get big money for our young players like clubs such as Southampton do.
Unless of course Poyet seriously wants to leave and is gonna ignore whatever Contract offer RD puts on the table then the clubs stance of ensuring we dont have to let players go for less money than what their worth (Jenkinson was used as an example) would certainly become questionable.
Thats why I think the club will see the pound signs we can get for Poyet in the future and thats why I think they'll do all thats within their power to keep him
Because he had an existing deal, with clauses presumably.
The previous regime couldn't afford to play him.
Yeah, but even so - that doesn't make sense.
Why would a youth player suddenly get paid £x *more* than players who know the league, know the job and have been doing it for years? I'm not saying they are *better* than him, but they are the type of guys you need in your team. I can't see a young lad breaking through in to a football team and suddenly being paid more than the captain (who's 14 years his senior and played in the Premiership during his career) and everyone else.
When did he even sign that contract? As an under-resourced club with a thin squad it would be interesting to understand that. It wont have been 2013; as we were scrimping at getting in bargain basement players like Church - whilst letting go of Haynes, Fuller and so on. Similarly, in 2012 we had huge plans for who we were going to bring in and so on - but instead we got in Wilson, Button (who we didn't pay for and had to sell on) and were told by some that we'd be lucky to be in business by Christmas. I can't see him being offered that kind of deal then.
So that leaves 2011, when did have a bit of cash to splash? He was 15 and a good 3 years away from breaking in to the first team then, and we were still in League One. Surely not?
We have some good quality youth players, so why would Diego be the only one to warrant such a clause? His fathers input? His father seems to be quite the opposite really, I presume Gus would've seen that as potentially limiting his options - as from interviews he seems to value the opportunity for his son to actually play. (In this scenario, that clause actively prevented him from playing - thus prevented him gaining any real exposure.)
Not quite sure I believe all this stuff about him having the highest paid contract at the club.
Basically he would have a clause in his youth contact that said 500 quid a week, rising to 5000 a week after one 1st team appearance, or something along those lines. He may also have a transfer release clause or a relegation release clause, but none of us know, just like none of us know whether he'll sign a new contract or not
I think you can improve the terms of an existing contrcat whenever you please - I doubt this is too hard to agree.
I imagine he will defur his decision until he knows what league we will be in.
Hopefully next couple of weeks. I wonder if he could sign a contract now with a relegation release clause that could be exercised within a month.
Alternatively Fanny and Weegie could kidnap him and if their feminine charms did not persuade him to sign they could refuse to release him till he did.
Not sure Gus will be Sunderland manager if they go down.
Diego must look at the players brought in, Thurum, PP & Koc way below standard, Reza struggling at this level, AA is OK but not fit enough for 90 mins. He will wonder who will go, what replacements have come in and whether we are better off than this year's relegation struggle. I'd be in no hurry to sign.
Comments
He knows he is wanted elsewhere, if he goes surely he will only go if he is confident of playing when he gets there. Going somewhere on a free or for a low fee doesn't put the same presure on the manager to play you that going for a 7 figure sum does. I think he is well advised and he will know that playing is what is important at this stage rather than for the U21s of a premier team or Barca B
I think he'll sign a deal at the end of the season. I even think he will if we are back in League 1
If he doesn't and walks for a small development fee then we only have TJ to blame as it should have been sorted sooner. But hey, why should they have done, after all he didn't play earlier in the season only because TJ couldn't afford the significant pay rise that would have followed if he had. Might not be in the position we are now ..........
Even at 19 (just) he must want to be able to be financially independent from his parents, expecting him to turn down any pay rise is unrealistic, and I believe unfair. I'm with Kap, we only keep those that we think can play or make us money. We have even 'encouraged' players to leave and waive the contractual obligations that we have when it suits us. We don't have any obligation to give a contact to any of the players we no longer want, and none of the players have to stay when their contract comes to an end.
I don't know what the numbers were but Shelvey was offered what Richard Murray described as a lot of money at 17. Poyet is two years older than him and he is, I presume, on youth team money. He wasn't even given a new contract last year when the likes of Cousins were. At this stage it's a little late for us to be hoping he'd commit to us as we don't seem to have shown a huge amount of faith in him up to now.
Having said that I genuinely hope that we stay up and he agrees to stay for another year or two. I just can't see it, personally.
Whether he chooses to stay with us or not, I'd wish him well. We should really be blaming MS + TJ for not signing him up before he started playing games (though I expect his increase in wages couldn't have been covered by their tiny budget).
My problem with this is that youth set ups cost a lot to run, if as a graduate from this your view is that you look after yourself and sod the club and any fees they can get for you - esp since the new fee structure came in, you are most likely contributing to youth set ups closing eventually. If owners cannot see financial merit in running them why would they continue to do so? RD and others are not in this purely benevolently.
I went to uni and hAve contributed to bursaries at my uni ever since as I would like to see other young people given the same opportunities as I had as a young lad. I know the uni will not accept every one that applies, I also know that not everyone will graduate/ finish or go on to a high paying job. I do know the uni will give them every opportunity to do so whilst they are there.
I am going to be furious if Joe Gomez goes the same way as Kasey Palmer.
Diego Poyet should just come and say what he wants. If we can't afford it then bye bye and have a nice career. Thanks for the memories.
Not all this 'I am keeping my options open' which means 'i will come to your club if you pay more than than any of the others so come and get me'.
*Basing my opinion on what i have heard and not facts*
Seems it's already been difficult enough to keep him considering he's said to have been on a deal that meant we couldn't afford to play him. Clearly that wasn't the case with Cousins, Pigott, Fox and Lennon.
Watching him in the last few games it's clear he's our best player (along with Solly). Well worth offering him good money to keep him, as well as being a key player he could be worth a lot more in a season or two. It would be nice to get big money for our young players like clubs such as Southampton do.
We would need to offer stupid money which I believe we will
The previous regime couldn't afford to play him.
Thats why I think the club will see the pound signs we can get for Poyet in the future and thats why I think they'll do all thats within their power to keep him
Why would a youth player suddenly get paid £x *more* than players who know the league, know the job and have been doing it for years? I'm not saying they are *better* than him, but they are the type of guys you need in your team. I can't see a young lad breaking through in to a football team and suddenly being paid more than the captain (who's 14 years his senior and played in the Premiership during his career) and everyone else.
When did he even sign that contract? As an under-resourced club with a thin squad it would be interesting to understand that. It wont have been 2013; as we were scrimping at getting in bargain basement players like Church - whilst letting go of Haynes, Fuller and so on. Similarly, in 2012 we had huge plans for who we were going to bring in and so on - but instead we got in Wilson, Button (who we didn't pay for and had to sell on) and were told by some that we'd be lucky to be in business by Christmas. I can't see him being offered that kind of deal then.
So that leaves 2011, when did have a bit of cash to splash? He was 15 and a good 3 years away from breaking in to the first team then, and we were still in League One. Surely not?
We have some good quality youth players, so why would Diego be the only one to warrant such a clause? His fathers input? His father seems to be quite the opposite really, I presume Gus would've seen that as potentially limiting his options - as from interviews he seems to value the opportunity for his son to actually play. (In this scenario, that clause actively prevented him from playing - thus prevented him gaining any real exposure.)
Not quite sure I believe all this stuff about him having the highest paid contract at the club.
Alternatively Fanny and Weegie could kidnap him and if their feminine charms did not persuade him to sign they could refuse to release him till he did.
Diego must look at the players brought in, Thurum, PP & Koc way below standard, Reza struggling at this level, AA is OK but not fit enough for 90 mins. He will wonder who will go, what replacements have come in and whether we are better off than this year's relegation struggle. I'd be in no hurry to sign.